Health for a Lifetime

Grief

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Don Mackintosh (Host), Neil Nedley

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Series Code: HFAL

Program Code: HFAL000219


00:01 The following program presents principles
00:03 designed to promote good health and
00:05 is not intended to take the place of
00:06 personalized professional care.
00:09 The opinions and ideas expressed are those
00:11 of the speaker. Viewers are encouraged to
00:13 draw their own conclusions
00:15 about the information presented.
00:50 Hello and welcome to Health for Lifetime.
00:51 I'm your host Don Mackintosh and you know
00:54 one of the realities of life is that we
00:56 lose things, that we struggle with loss,
00:59 we suffer loss. And so one of the things
01:01 we have to learn to do which I believe
01:04 the creator never meant us to have to really
01:07 deal with but has equipped us is to
01:09 overcome loss. And talking with us today
01:13 about this important subject is Dr. Neil
01:16 Nedley, Dr. Nedley you're a physician that
01:18 practices there in Ardmore, Oklahoma, and
01:21 but you are, you go around the world and
01:23 probably one of the things that you,
01:27 probably don't relish but have to deal with
01:29 day in and day out is explaining to people
01:32 that they've lost this or that function maybe
01:35 explaining to the relatives of someone
01:38 waiting, have they lost a loved one.
01:40 This is a big part of what you have to do.
01:43 It is, and also of course we deal a lot
01:45 with depression as well and often depression
01:48 starts out as a result of a loss of a vision
01:52 or a loss of a body part or the loss
01:56 of a loved one, loss of a child and so in
02:01 order to really get to the root
02:02 cause of depression, we have to teach
02:05 people the best way of overcoming loss.
02:08 Alright, and I mean is it true
02:10 what I said, that really, it never was
02:11 meant to be? That's right, God's original plan
02:15 was that we would not have loss,
02:16 there was to be no death or dying.
02:19 And it wasn't until sin entered the world
02:22 when that began to happen and now
02:23 it happens routinely but we're told in
02:26 the last couple of chapters of the Bible
02:29 that there will come a point and time
02:31 where there will be no more losses.
02:33 No more pain, no more suffering we look
02:35 forward to that, but between here
02:37 and there we need some what would say
02:40 coping mechanisms or you know biblically
02:42 based, scientifically sound principles to know
02:47 how to go on. You know, how long people
02:49 live not only has to do what they are putting
02:52 into their body and what they're doing
02:54 with their body but also has to deal
02:56 with how they cognitively process
02:58 loss. There was an individual I was
03:01 giving a health summit a few years
03:02 ago in Texas and one of the people that
03:05 were attending was turning 100 years of
03:08 age that day and the news media came,
03:11 she had walked on her own power to the place
03:15 she had asked some good questions as
03:18 we were talking about different health
03:20 principles she obliviously had
03:22 a wit and a sense of humor about her as well.
03:26 And at lunch time they sang happy birthday
03:28 to her and they lit the candles and she
03:31 blew out the candles and right after she
03:34 did that the news media was there to have
03:35 that on the evening news that day.
03:38 And they put a microphone under
03:39 her chin and said tell us ma'am what's special
03:41 about being a hundred, and quipped right
03:43 back and said, no peer pressure.
03:47 And I laughed as well and the whole audience
03:50 laughed, none of us had thought about
03:53 it in that way but as I started to talk
03:56 to her she had lost virtually everyone
04:00 that was important to her at your age
04:04 you know unless you're hundred and watching
04:05 this program which you're very likely not,
04:08 she had lost her husband to diseases
04:10 of old age. She had lost children to diseases
04:13 of old age. She had lost virtually every
04:17 friend that she had in her 60's, and 40's,
04:20 50's, 60's and 70's. They were all gone.
04:23 She had to go through tremendous amount
04:25 of loss, but yet she still had a wit
04:28 about her, she still was a successful woman
04:31 and she had learned how to cognitively
04:35 process loss, is the term that we utilize.
04:38 Yeah. And you know people that live that
04:40 long many times are at, wouldn't be
04:44 that old if they hadn't learned how
04:45 to do this, I mean they have a real optimism
04:48 I was visiting the other day with a guy
04:50 in the nursing home I said how are you today?
04:52 He says well I got one foot out of the
04:55 grave and the other foot well it's actually
04:56 on a banana peel, he says that I am
04:58 that close, he goes but I'm reading
05:01 the paper I want to see
05:02 what's already happen, then you know he just
05:04 had a good way of dealing with that
05:06 and then my grandfather,
05:09 I think I've talked to you about that before
05:10 he was 86 years old when he moved in with me,
05:14 the last three and half years of his life
05:16 and he redefined life with the people that
05:20 were around him to make it meaningful
05:22 and purposeful. He said I must be alive for you
05:24 he would tell me everyday, so that well he,
05:27 you know he had overcome the losses
05:28 in the past but he would treat me like he treated
05:32 his wife you know he fixed breakfast for me
05:34 and all kinds of things. Well, and those people
05:38 are very special and obviously anyone
05:40 who reaches those ages and still have a positive
05:44 outlook on life know something about
05:46 overcoming loss. Yeah, you know this is a Psalms,
05:49 I want to mention this just before we go on,
05:50 there is a Psalms my grandfather used
05:52 and if you're an older person and look this up.
05:56 It is a, I think it's a 72nd or 73rd Psalms
06:00 it says now when I am old and gray-headed,
06:04 you know be with me until I declare your
06:07 strength to this age and to the people to come,
06:11 the generation to come. And that was his text,
06:13 he said, look, this is my text I am supposed
06:15 to declare the glory and strength of God
06:18 to you boys and to generations that
06:20 are to come. So, that was his purpose, yeah,
06:23 so let's look at this then overcoming loss
06:27 you have some principles that you want
06:29 to share with us. Well, one of the principles
06:31 as to keep the loss in perspective and lets not
06:34 necessarily magnify the loss out of proportion.
06:38 We talk about Cognitive behavioral therapy
06:41 and Cognitive behavioral therapy really
06:43 is truth therapy. Its, cognitive means,
06:46 cognition or thought, yeah, that's right,
06:49 cognition is the thought and so that means
06:51 even our thoughts are accurate and true.
06:53 They are not bent out of proportion like
06:57 we tend to do, particularly when
06:58 we're undergoing a loss, we will tend to state
07:01 it in such a way and explain it in such a way
07:05 that really goes beyond and of course when
07:07 we believe that it defeats us.
07:10 An example we have upon the screen an
07:13 appropriate way of looking at a significant
07:16 loss as well as some inappropriate ways.
07:20 The appropriate way is to state as the screen
07:26 should be saying now, reality versus distortion,
07:31 I'm losing what? An important part of my life.
07:33 That's right. And I'm losing an important part
07:36 of my life that obviously is accurate,
07:39 if something that was important to you to say
07:41 I'm losing an important part of my life,
07:43 its accurate, its realistic it's not distorted.
07:46 What about my world has ended?
07:49 My world has ended is a distortion,
07:52 the person who's stating that their world
07:55 is still going on, yeah, they're still alive their
07:58 world is not ended, they're still alive
07:59 and but yet when they state that and believe it,
08:03 it's gonna defeat them, It's gonna send them down.
08:05 What about, I just cannot,
08:08 I refuse to live without her? I can't live without
08:12 her and you know we had an individual
08:15 that went through our depression
08:16 recovery program, who had gone through
08:18 a break up and well they weren't married
08:23 but it was someone that, had planned on
08:26 getting married to and this woman
08:29 had broken up with her and he wouldn't
08:30 utilize those times. I can't live without her
08:35 and that's a defeatism term, it's not accurate
08:40 at all, he was living as he was talking to me
08:43 about her. And it is inaccurate and taking
08:48 it too far. So, a better way to say that then,
08:52 I think we have a graphic that shows this,
08:55 a better way to say these kind of things.
08:57 A better way to state it would be that
09:01 I will miss the companionship of all and
09:05 the love that we shared. Yes, and that would
09:08 have been a very desirable way for him to
09:10 express it. He obviously missed the companionship
09:14 and love that he shared with her and that's
09:18 accurate and he stated that way is tender,
09:21 it's realistic, it's desirable and will
09:23 enhance your humanity and add depth to the
09:25 meaning of life. So, that it depends I mean
09:28 as a man thinketh so is he, as the spiritual text.
09:32 That's right. So the way you think cognition
09:36 and forms the way you behave and if you can
09:39 change the thoughts that's the therapy part
09:41 of cognitive behavioral therapy.
09:43 Change the thoughts into what's accurate,
09:45 now it's not fantasy thoughts. You know some
09:47 people will say well the way to get over loss
09:50 is just don't think about the loss and try to
09:52 think of some sort of fantasy thing that
09:55 will make you happy so that you can get rid
09:57 of that gnaw aching feeling on the inside
10:02 but that's a set up for problems as well.
10:05 So, really stating what has happened but saying
10:08 it in a realistic manner, saying it in a realistic
10:11 manner. Now, here is, your next graphic says
10:13 I will never be happy again because she or he
10:17 has died. It's unfair, yes, that trigger thoughts
10:20 of self-pitying and hopelessness.
10:22 Those thoughts are based on distortions
10:24 and will defeat whoever says it, and so we need
10:29 to have our thoughts, we really need to analyze
10:34 them at that time and you know when we first
10:36 go through a loss is when we tend to blow it
10:39 out of proportion as well I mean stage one
10:42 of loss is a stage of shock and disbelieve
10:47 and so particularly I want to know unexpected
10:50 loss I mean its shocking and you're in a state
10:54 of denial sort to speak you're saying this loss
10:56 isn't actually occurring you know it's almost
11:00 like you know it's a movie that's not real,
11:04 and it's kind of interesting to
11:06 September 11th, people who witnessed that,
11:08 stated like they are witnessing a movie that
11:11 wasn't real, well that was a stage of shock
11:14 and disbelief, the state of denial and that stage
11:17 should last no more than a few minutes
11:21 sometimes it might last up to 24 hours in severe
11:24 losses but after that time period we really need
11:27 to state that loss and accurate terms and
11:31 our thoughts as well as our speech.
11:34 Is this one of the reasons people say that if,
11:36 if it's possible it's good to see the person
11:40 that has died? Yes, that's right,
11:43 it makes it accurate, you know a lot of people
11:46 state that well I just don't want to see them
11:48 that way, but we need to come to grips with
11:52 reality and that helps us. Visually as well to come
11:56 to grips with reality. So, stage one then is
12:00 you know moving from the denial to saying
12:02 yes this happened, that's right. And then,
12:04 what about stage 2 of grief? Well, stage 2
12:07 is the stage of developing awareness,
12:10 the duration here is much longer it will last
12:13 three months maybe very sever losses
12:15 up to 12 months. During that time
12:17 there is a preoccupation with the loss or you're
12:20 continually thinking about it and really
12:22 thinking of the consequences of it,
12:24 tend to be associated with anxiety,
12:26 restlessness and even difficulty at sleeping
12:29 as a result of the loss. And I mean this is,
12:33 this is normal for it to last that long,
12:36 it's normal and whether that losses due to loss
12:38 of job or the loss of a vision or the death
12:43 of a loved one or loss of a limb or whatever,
12:47 it can last 3 to 12 months that stage of developing
12:51 awareness and of course that's the time
12:53 we need to be analyzing our thoughts as well.
12:55 So, you need to talk a lot about losing,
12:57 a limb but you're also talking about
12:58 losing a vision, what do you mean by that?
13:01 Well, for instance someone might have
13:04 planned on being a physician.
13:07 And they were shocked that they couldn't
13:09 do well in MCAT for instance.
13:11 And they had always thought about themselves
13:13 being a physician and now they realize that,
13:15 that vision is lost, it's not possible for them.
13:19 And there can be a period of grief as a
13:22 result of that. You might have the vision that
13:25 you're you know, that you would have kids
13:27 for instance and, and there maybe parents
13:30 who are always planning on that,
13:31 they didn't have children, loss of a vision.
13:35 And they might help to stay with the physician,
13:37 when you gets the phone calls all night that
13:39 might help you really reorient,
13:42 and that's right. Well, you know,
13:43 and these are not to be minimize,
13:44 I mean people whatever the vision is,
13:46 it can really, really just change your world
13:50 when you realizes and just not going to happen.
13:52 Yeah, that's right. And often it is for
13:54 our best good. You know, particularly for
13:56 Christians were given a promise that when
13:58 we are crying, we're in Christ that all things
14:01 well worked together for good.
14:03 And so, if that person ended up not becoming
14:07 a physician because of the MCAT,
14:09 it's actually better for them not
14:11 to be a physician. We're talking with
14:13 Dr. Neil Nedley, we're talking about
14:14 overcoming loss, something we really
14:16 we're never too experienced, but because
14:18 we all will experience and how do we deal with it?
14:21 When we comeback we'll talk about
14:22 other stages and how to overcome loss.
14:26 Join us when we comeback.
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15:30 Welcome back we're glad you've join us
15:31 for Health For A Lifetime.
15:32 We're in the middle of a discussion with
15:34 Dr. Neil Nedley about loss, it's something
15:37 we really never should have had to
15:38 experience and whatever you're experiencing
15:41 today our heart goes out to you,
15:43 but how is it that you can deal with that loss?
15:46 How can you overcome it, put it in perspective?
15:50 And we talked about several things;
15:51 we've talked about different stages.
15:53 First of all, recognizing that we've had a loss
15:55 and awareness of it and that you said,
15:57 Dr. Nedley who can last any,
16:00 suppose to last like 24 hours or less.
16:02 Well that's, that's the, idea, stage of shock
16:05 and disbelief, shock and disbelief,
16:06 yeah less than 24 hours. And then the next stage,
16:09 the stage of developing awareness last longer
16:12 anywhere from 3 to 12 months and it's important
16:14 during that stage, if the person not go through
16:17 some sudden life changing decisions,
16:20 often people will make some pretty impulsive
16:23 decisions as a result of that loss and then live
16:27 to regret it because their mind
16:28 is preoccupied with it, they're wanting to get
16:31 that pain over with and they'll you know move
16:34 to a different state, they'll, get remarried.
16:39 Right, get remarried very quickly to help deal
16:42 with the pain etc. And then a year
16:45 later they say, how in the world did this happen?
16:48 And then it's very difficult to get back to
16:50 the place where they were, and so they really
16:52 need to endure through that 3 to 12 month
16:55 period as they gradually improve their thinking,
17:01 as they adapt to the loss and find ways of,
17:06 of replacing that loss as much as possible
17:11 in a healthy manner. So, they must move
17:14 then from the stage two to stage three?
17:16 Well, stage three is very important stage.
17:20 And this starts from 3 to 12 months after a loss.
17:24 And during this stage there is an incorporation
17:26 of new habits. There's also lifestyle changes
17:29 that occur as a result of the loss.
17:32 And during this stage there should be making
17:35 wise plans for the future. This is where
17:38 they're well thought out analytical plans.
17:42 So, in another words look before you leap
17:43 and you're, you're kind you're, you're,
17:45 you're experiencing the loss, but you just are
17:49 calculating this maybe involving other people.
17:52 That's right, and actually you can incorporate
17:54 some new healthy lifestyle habits
17:56 as a result. One of the ways in which
17:58 our 100-year-old person that I talked about
18:01 earlier and others do, do so well.
18:05 Even under loss is they use the loss actually
18:08 grow from the loss. And of course that's difficult
18:12 to think about particularly you know,
18:14 when you're dealing and really with that loss
18:17 the first week or so, but you need to start
18:20 analyzing it, how can I grow from this loss.
18:24 There was an interesting study done on men,
18:28 this was a study on men whose immune
18:30 systems had already been compromised,
18:32 so they were already ill. And they had experienced
18:36 the loss of a loved one. And this study group
18:41 became to see how they handle the loss
18:45 differently and what happened to their
18:47 immune system? And it turned out 65% of men
18:51 actually attempt to cognitively process
18:54 the loss. This is mains that they're reflecting
18:59 on the loss, they're reflecting on life's
19:01 meaning and value even that was a death
19:04 that they were dealing with; it does lead
19:06 people to a period of introspection.
19:09 And it turns out that's good.
19:11 You want to be in that 65% that are reflecting
19:15 on the loss. Okay. But after that the group
19:21 was pretty much equally divided three ways.
19:25 Group one, I think we have, there I say
19:28 graphic. For some their loved one's death
19:31 only emphasized the negative aspects of life.
19:35 Now, how do you think they did? Not so well,
19:38 they were looking at everything as a negative.
19:40 That's right, they did not do well,
19:42 their immune systems were further worsening
19:44 as a result. On group two, you would think
19:48 that this group did better they just simply
19:51 accepted the death and moved on.
19:54 And you would think well that's, that's healthier,
19:57 it turns out group two did no better than
20:01 group one in the study. So, minimizing
20:03 or ignoring it basically doesn't help.
20:05 It doesn't help like many people have previously
20:08 thought that it does. The only group that
20:12 significantly improved was group three.
20:16 And group three, the demise of their loved
20:18 one led them to a new found respect for life
20:21 and a commitment to significantly improve
20:24 their personal life. And those people's
20:28 immune system actually improved as a result
20:31 of the loss. Their immune system was better
20:34 after the loss long term then it was before
20:36 that loss occurred. So, that came from their
20:39 choice, their commitment, their analysis.
20:42 That's right, new found respect for a life
20:44 and a commitment to improve their personal life.
20:47 Did that happen ever in your life?
20:50 Actually it has I, I dealt with the loss four
20:54 years ago now, that was the hardest thing
20:58 that I've gone through, my father
21:00 and I were very close, he was always
21:03 a good counselor and I could call him up on
21:06 the phone, and he had never tell me what
21:09 to do when they were decisions,
21:10 but he would help clarify the principles
21:12 and the issues and of course leave the
21:15 decision with me, but it was almost like you know,
21:17 a phone call to Jesus Christ you know,
21:22 the way He helped clarify issues.
21:23 Of course my father was very close to God.
21:26 And it was also a very objective analyzer.
21:30 And he helped me I've done lot of things
21:31 including my books etc, the reason
21:33 why I haven't put out as many books likely
21:35 is because of, of that loss that we haven't
21:37 been able to, to necessarily replace
21:39 at this point in time, but it was a sudden death,
21:43 shocking death and it was a death that
21:48 I couldn't see really at the time how anything
21:50 good could come of it. I have to remind myself
21:54 that they were very good people that the Lord
21:58 allowed to die in the past you know,
21:59 even John the Revelator eventually died.
22:04 Of course John the Baptist died
22:05 and he was the greatest prophet etc.
22:08 So, just because it was a death doesn't mean
22:10 or even a young death doesn't mean
22:12 the Lord is not with the individual at all,
22:15 but I had to realize that my growing from
22:20 the loss occurred because I recognize my
22:24 need to establish the spiritual connection
22:27 like my father had. So, you made a
22:30 commitment to that. I made a commitment to that.
22:32 And I knew I couldn't call him up anymore
22:34 and get that wisdom and it was so easy before,
22:37 but now I committed to establishing a much
22:42 improved relationship with God, so that
22:44 I can hear the same voice that he heard.
22:46 Yeah. And, and get it directly from,
22:51 from the spiritual sword. And that's gonna be
22:53 a blessing not only to you, but hopefully
22:55 to your boys as well, so as they have a
22:58 relationship with your dad. Right.
23:00 Well, you know I thought about as you're talking
23:02 I had a similar loss one generation removed
23:06 I was attending the, the Adventist
23:09 Theological Seminary two years back now
23:12 in the early 90s and late 80s, early 90s
23:17 and my grandfather was older than and
23:19 he moved in with me because he was getting
23:22 up in years. And like I said that Psalm
23:25 had talked about declaring God's strength
23:28 to this generation, the generation to come
23:30 he took that seriously and he would go with me
23:33 and do almost everything with me.
23:35 And he was quite objective as well,
23:37 I mean I was on a basketball team
23:39 and he was say to me, you know,
23:40 that's really kind of crazy to run up and down.
23:44 Let me understand you're trying to put
23:45 this ball through this hoop here,
23:47 okay he says now I don't, I don't understand
23:49 the real focus of that and the eternal scheme
23:52 of things, but I'll go with you and he would
23:54 pray for us and he would say, you know,
23:56 Lord protect these foolish young people as they
24:00 run up and down and put that ball there
24:02 and you know, we called our team the Patriarchs,
24:04 we named it after him because
24:05 he was a Patriarch. And you know,
24:09 as I would go to the school
24:10 there I'd come home and I tell him some ideas
24:13 and he'd say, well give me that volume
24:15 there off of the shelf or give me the Bible
24:19 and read this verse with that, or give me
24:21 you know, that the red book there or there,
24:24 read that. And it would be exactly what
24:28 I needed to hear. And I became aware
24:31 of that really the Lord was using him
24:35 and send him to help me out, whereas he was
24:38 asking me to help him. And I remember as well
24:42 when he died that I made a strong commitment to
24:50 I basically said, I want to be like grandfather,
24:54 I want to be, yes, connected with God,
24:58 I want to have those spiritual resources.
25:01 And that that, that was a defining part of life,
25:06 defining part. Yes, you know it's interesting
25:09 and the classical work ministry of healing
25:11 Ellen White tells a story and of course
25:14 many bird people know this story,
25:17 when you're trying to teach a bird a song
25:19 particularly birds are capable of learning songs.
25:23 They can learn a snitch of that, a trill of that,
25:25 but it's not until you darken the cage
25:28 and teach that song over and over that
25:32 then that bird would break forth in perfect
25:34 melody on that song in the dark.
25:37 And then you can uncover the cage
25:39 and that song will be there for the bird's
25:42 rest of its life. In other words,
25:44 the Lord may have a song to teach us
25:47 and it's through the shadows of reflection
25:50 that we often learn. Another poet by the name
25:53 of Jane Eagleson wrote a beautiful poem about
25:58 how the mountain tops are glorious,
26:01 but it's in the valleys that we grow.
26:04 And that's, that so true, I mean people that
26:06 have experienced a loss know that I mean
26:09 you look back in your journals actually
26:11 you read the Bible. Many times the best things
26:14 come out of you know, the worse situation,
26:17 right, Book of Lamentations is
26:20 all about sorrow, but you know the steadfast
26:23 love of the Lord never ceases,
26:24 his mercies never come to an end,
26:26 they're new every morning,
26:28 great is thy faithfulness, that wonderful text right
26:30 there in the middle of it, yeah, Isaiah 63
26:33 where the Lord says, "In all their afflictions,
26:35 I was afflicted with them." All of those texts.
26:37 Yeah, and for every disappointment
26:41 for a Christian there is an appointment.
26:43 That's right. Alright, and so we need
26:45 to recognize that instead of just festering
26:48 on the disappointment. You know, Daniel never
26:52 festered on it, he had to put up with it,
26:54 he didn't enjoy it, but he stayed close
26:57 to God and eventually he saw the appointment.
27:00 That's wonderful and you know,
27:01 I think it's beautiful too, we got a last minute
27:03 here when you understand what the Bible teaches
27:06 about death itself, I mean this is one of the
27:09 losses that we're talking about that,
27:11 death according to the Bible is a sleep.
27:14 That's right. And you don't go immediately to
27:17 heaven or something like that. So you know,
27:20 some of these people that in their lives
27:21 'cause they think they'll be immediately
27:23 there in heaven and, and what not.
27:26 Well you know, Susan Smith backed her
27:28 car into the lake to send her
27:30 "four children to heaven" because of the marital
27:32 problems that her and her husband were having.
27:34 And if she truly did that she should be a hero,
27:37 but most people don't believe in that firmly
27:40 enough to do what she did,
27:41 and it's an erroneous belief that leads to a
27:43 lot of problems. So, it's important to understand
27:46 really what happens to people when they die,
27:48 but you know I think the most important thing
27:50 when we deal with loss is understanding
27:52 the resurrection power of Christ
27:55 and claiming that as well.


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Revised 2014-12-17