Participants: Don Mackintosh (Host), Neil Nedley
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000219
00:01 The following program presents principles
00:03 designed to promote good health and 00:05 is not intended to take the place of 00:06 personalized professional care. 00:09 The opinions and ideas expressed are those 00:11 of the speaker. Viewers are encouraged to 00:13 draw their own conclusions 00:15 about the information presented. 00:50 Hello and welcome to Health for Lifetime. 00:51 I'm your host Don Mackintosh and you know 00:54 one of the realities of life is that we 00:56 lose things, that we struggle with loss, 00:59 we suffer loss. And so one of the things 01:01 we have to learn to do which I believe 01:04 the creator never meant us to have to really 01:07 deal with but has equipped us is to 01:09 overcome loss. And talking with us today 01:13 about this important subject is Dr. Neil 01:16 Nedley, Dr. Nedley you're a physician that 01:18 practices there in Ardmore, Oklahoma, and 01:21 but you are, you go around the world and 01:23 probably one of the things that you, 01:27 probably don't relish but have to deal with 01:29 day in and day out is explaining to people 01:32 that they've lost this or that function maybe 01:35 explaining to the relatives of someone 01:38 waiting, have they lost a loved one. 01:40 This is a big part of what you have to do. 01:43 It is, and also of course we deal a lot 01:45 with depression as well and often depression 01:48 starts out as a result of a loss of a vision 01:52 or a loss of a body part or the loss 01:56 of a loved one, loss of a child and so in 02:01 order to really get to the root 02:02 cause of depression, we have to teach 02:05 people the best way of overcoming loss. 02:08 Alright, and I mean is it true 02:10 what I said, that really, it never was 02:11 meant to be? That's right, God's original plan 02:15 was that we would not have loss, 02:16 there was to be no death or dying. 02:19 And it wasn't until sin entered the world 02:22 when that began to happen and now 02:23 it happens routinely but we're told in 02:26 the last couple of chapters of the Bible 02:29 that there will come a point and time 02:31 where there will be no more losses. 02:33 No more pain, no more suffering we look 02:35 forward to that, but between here 02:37 and there we need some what would say 02:40 coping mechanisms or you know biblically 02:42 based, scientifically sound principles to know 02:47 how to go on. You know, how long people 02:49 live not only has to do what they are putting 02:52 into their body and what they're doing 02:54 with their body but also has to deal 02:56 with how they cognitively process 02:58 loss. There was an individual I was 03:01 giving a health summit a few years 03:02 ago in Texas and one of the people that 03:05 were attending was turning 100 years of 03:08 age that day and the news media came, 03:11 she had walked on her own power to the place 03:15 she had asked some good questions as 03:18 we were talking about different health 03:20 principles she obliviously had 03:22 a wit and a sense of humor about her as well. 03:26 And at lunch time they sang happy birthday 03:28 to her and they lit the candles and she 03:31 blew out the candles and right after she 03:34 did that the news media was there to have 03:35 that on the evening news that day. 03:38 And they put a microphone under 03:39 her chin and said tell us ma'am what's special 03:41 about being a hundred, and quipped right 03:43 back and said, no peer pressure. 03:47 And I laughed as well and the whole audience 03:50 laughed, none of us had thought about 03:53 it in that way but as I started to talk 03:56 to her she had lost virtually everyone 04:00 that was important to her at your age 04:04 you know unless you're hundred and watching 04:05 this program which you're very likely not, 04:08 she had lost her husband to diseases 04:10 of old age. She had lost children to diseases 04:13 of old age. She had lost virtually every 04:17 friend that she had in her 60's, and 40's, 04:20 50's, 60's and 70's. They were all gone. 04:23 She had to go through tremendous amount 04:25 of loss, but yet she still had a wit 04:28 about her, she still was a successful woman 04:31 and she had learned how to cognitively 04:35 process loss, is the term that we utilize. 04:38 Yeah. And you know people that live that 04:40 long many times are at, wouldn't be 04:44 that old if they hadn't learned how 04:45 to do this, I mean they have a real optimism 04:48 I was visiting the other day with a guy 04:50 in the nursing home I said how are you today? 04:52 He says well I got one foot out of the 04:55 grave and the other foot well it's actually 04:56 on a banana peel, he says that I am 04:58 that close, he goes but I'm reading 05:01 the paper I want to see 05:02 what's already happen, then you know he just 05:04 had a good way of dealing with that 05:06 and then my grandfather, 05:09 I think I've talked to you about that before 05:10 he was 86 years old when he moved in with me, 05:14 the last three and half years of his life 05:16 and he redefined life with the people that 05:20 were around him to make it meaningful 05:22 and purposeful. He said I must be alive for you 05:24 he would tell me everyday, so that well he, 05:27 you know he had overcome the losses 05:28 in the past but he would treat me like he treated 05:32 his wife you know he fixed breakfast for me 05:34 and all kinds of things. Well, and those people 05:38 are very special and obviously anyone 05:40 who reaches those ages and still have a positive 05:44 outlook on life know something about 05:46 overcoming loss. Yeah, you know this is a Psalms, 05:49 I want to mention this just before we go on, 05:50 there is a Psalms my grandfather used 05:52 and if you're an older person and look this up. 05:56 It is a, I think it's a 72nd or 73rd Psalms 06:00 it says now when I am old and gray-headed, 06:04 you know be with me until I declare your 06:07 strength to this age and to the people to come, 06:11 the generation to come. And that was his text, 06:13 he said, look, this is my text I am supposed 06:15 to declare the glory and strength of God 06:18 to you boys and to generations that 06:20 are to come. So, that was his purpose, yeah, 06:23 so let's look at this then overcoming loss 06:27 you have some principles that you want 06:29 to share with us. Well, one of the principles 06:31 as to keep the loss in perspective and lets not 06:34 necessarily magnify the loss out of proportion. 06:38 We talk about Cognitive behavioral therapy 06:41 and Cognitive behavioral therapy really 06:43 is truth therapy. Its, cognitive means, 06:46 cognition or thought, yeah, that's right, 06:49 cognition is the thought and so that means 06:51 even our thoughts are accurate and true. 06:53 They are not bent out of proportion like 06:57 we tend to do, particularly when 06:58 we're undergoing a loss, we will tend to state 07:01 it in such a way and explain it in such a way 07:05 that really goes beyond and of course when 07:07 we believe that it defeats us. 07:10 An example we have upon the screen an 07:13 appropriate way of looking at a significant 07:16 loss as well as some inappropriate ways. 07:20 The appropriate way is to state as the screen 07:26 should be saying now, reality versus distortion, 07:31 I'm losing what? An important part of my life. 07:33 That's right. And I'm losing an important part 07:36 of my life that obviously is accurate, 07:39 if something that was important to you to say 07:41 I'm losing an important part of my life, 07:43 its accurate, its realistic it's not distorted. 07:46 What about my world has ended? 07:49 My world has ended is a distortion, 07:52 the person who's stating that their world 07:55 is still going on, yeah, they're still alive their 07:58 world is not ended, they're still alive 07:59 and but yet when they state that and believe it, 08:03 it's gonna defeat them, It's gonna send them down. 08:05 What about, I just cannot, 08:08 I refuse to live without her? I can't live without 08:12 her and you know we had an individual 08:15 that went through our depression 08:16 recovery program, who had gone through 08:18 a break up and well they weren't married 08:23 but it was someone that, had planned on 08:26 getting married to and this woman 08:29 had broken up with her and he wouldn't 08:30 utilize those times. I can't live without her 08:35 and that's a defeatism term, it's not accurate 08:40 at all, he was living as he was talking to me 08:43 about her. And it is inaccurate and taking 08:48 it too far. So, a better way to say that then, 08:52 I think we have a graphic that shows this, 08:55 a better way to say these kind of things. 08:57 A better way to state it would be that 09:01 I will miss the companionship of all and 09:05 the love that we shared. Yes, and that would 09:08 have been a very desirable way for him to 09:10 express it. He obviously missed the companionship 09:14 and love that he shared with her and that's 09:18 accurate and he stated that way is tender, 09:21 it's realistic, it's desirable and will 09:23 enhance your humanity and add depth to the 09:25 meaning of life. So, that it depends I mean 09:28 as a man thinketh so is he, as the spiritual text. 09:32 That's right. So the way you think cognition 09:36 and forms the way you behave and if you can 09:39 change the thoughts that's the therapy part 09:41 of cognitive behavioral therapy. 09:43 Change the thoughts into what's accurate, 09:45 now it's not fantasy thoughts. You know some 09:47 people will say well the way to get over loss 09:50 is just don't think about the loss and try to 09:52 think of some sort of fantasy thing that 09:55 will make you happy so that you can get rid 09:57 of that gnaw aching feeling on the inside 10:02 but that's a set up for problems as well. 10:05 So, really stating what has happened but saying 10:08 it in a realistic manner, saying it in a realistic 10:11 manner. Now, here is, your next graphic says 10:13 I will never be happy again because she or he 10:17 has died. It's unfair, yes, that trigger thoughts 10:20 of self-pitying and hopelessness. 10:22 Those thoughts are based on distortions 10:24 and will defeat whoever says it, and so we need 10:29 to have our thoughts, we really need to analyze 10:34 them at that time and you know when we first 10:36 go through a loss is when we tend to blow it 10:39 out of proportion as well I mean stage one 10:42 of loss is a stage of shock and disbelieve 10:47 and so particularly I want to know unexpected 10:50 loss I mean its shocking and you're in a state 10:54 of denial sort to speak you're saying this loss 10:56 isn't actually occurring you know it's almost 11:00 like you know it's a movie that's not real, 11:04 and it's kind of interesting to 11:06 September 11th, people who witnessed that, 11:08 stated like they are witnessing a movie that 11:11 wasn't real, well that was a stage of shock 11:14 and disbelief, the state of denial and that stage 11:17 should last no more than a few minutes 11:21 sometimes it might last up to 24 hours in severe 11:24 losses but after that time period we really need 11:27 to state that loss and accurate terms and 11:31 our thoughts as well as our speech. 11:34 Is this one of the reasons people say that if, 11:36 if it's possible it's good to see the person 11:40 that has died? Yes, that's right, 11:43 it makes it accurate, you know a lot of people 11:46 state that well I just don't want to see them 11:48 that way, but we need to come to grips with 11:52 reality and that helps us. Visually as well to come 11:56 to grips with reality. So, stage one then is 12:00 you know moving from the denial to saying 12:02 yes this happened, that's right. And then, 12:04 what about stage 2 of grief? Well, stage 2 12:07 is the stage of developing awareness, 12:10 the duration here is much longer it will last 12:13 three months maybe very sever losses 12:15 up to 12 months. During that time 12:17 there is a preoccupation with the loss or you're 12:20 continually thinking about it and really 12:22 thinking of the consequences of it, 12:24 tend to be associated with anxiety, 12:26 restlessness and even difficulty at sleeping 12:29 as a result of the loss. And I mean this is, 12:33 this is normal for it to last that long, 12:36 it's normal and whether that losses due to loss 12:38 of job or the loss of a vision or the death 12:43 of a loved one or loss of a limb or whatever, 12:47 it can last 3 to 12 months that stage of developing 12:51 awareness and of course that's the time 12:53 we need to be analyzing our thoughts as well. 12:55 So, you need to talk a lot about losing, 12:57 a limb but you're also talking about 12:58 losing a vision, what do you mean by that? 13:01 Well, for instance someone might have 13:04 planned on being a physician. 13:07 And they were shocked that they couldn't 13:09 do well in MCAT for instance. 13:11 And they had always thought about themselves 13:13 being a physician and now they realize that, 13:15 that vision is lost, it's not possible for them. 13:19 And there can be a period of grief as a 13:22 result of that. You might have the vision that 13:25 you're you know, that you would have kids 13:27 for instance and, and there maybe parents 13:30 who are always planning on that, 13:31 they didn't have children, loss of a vision. 13:35 And they might help to stay with the physician, 13:37 when you gets the phone calls all night that 13:39 might help you really reorient, 13:42 and that's right. Well, you know, 13:43 and these are not to be minimize, 13:44 I mean people whatever the vision is, 13:46 it can really, really just change your world 13:50 when you realizes and just not going to happen. 13:52 Yeah, that's right. And often it is for 13:54 our best good. You know, particularly for 13:56 Christians were given a promise that when 13:58 we are crying, we're in Christ that all things 14:01 well worked together for good. 14:03 And so, if that person ended up not becoming 14:07 a physician because of the MCAT, 14:09 it's actually better for them not 14:11 to be a physician. We're talking with 14:13 Dr. Neil Nedley, we're talking about 14:14 overcoming loss, something we really 14:16 we're never too experienced, but because 14:18 we all will experience and how do we deal with it? 14:21 When we comeback we'll talk about 14:22 other stages and how to overcome loss. 14:26 Join us when we comeback. 14:29 Are you confused about the endless stream 14:32 of new and often contradictory health 14:34 information with companies trying 14:36 to sell new drugs and special interest groups 14:39 paying for studies that spin the fact, 14:41 where can you find a common sense approach 14:43 to health? One way is to ask for your 14:46 free copy of Dr. Arnott's 24 realistic ways 14:49 to improve your health. 14:50 Dr. Timothy Arnott and the Lifestyle Center 14:53 of America produced this helpful booklet 14:54 of 24 short practical health tips based 14:57 on scientific research and the Bible, 15:00 that will help you live longer, happier 15:01 and healthier. 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Just log on to 15:20 www.3abn.org, and click on free offers 15:23 or call us during regular business hours, 15:25 you'll be glad you did. 15:30 Welcome back we're glad you've join us 15:31 for Health For A Lifetime. 15:32 We're in the middle of a discussion with 15:34 Dr. Neil Nedley about loss, it's something 15:37 we really never should have had to 15:38 experience and whatever you're experiencing 15:41 today our heart goes out to you, 15:43 but how is it that you can deal with that loss? 15:46 How can you overcome it, put it in perspective? 15:50 And we talked about several things; 15:51 we've talked about different stages. 15:53 First of all, recognizing that we've had a loss 15:55 and awareness of it and that you said, 15:57 Dr. Nedley who can last any, 16:00 suppose to last like 24 hours or less. 16:02 Well that's, that's the, idea, stage of shock 16:05 and disbelief, shock and disbelief, 16:06 yeah less than 24 hours. And then the next stage, 16:09 the stage of developing awareness last longer 16:12 anywhere from 3 to 12 months and it's important 16:14 during that stage, if the person not go through 16:17 some sudden life changing decisions, 16:20 often people will make some pretty impulsive 16:23 decisions as a result of that loss and then live 16:27 to regret it because their mind 16:28 is preoccupied with it, they're wanting to get 16:31 that pain over with and they'll you know move 16:34 to a different state, they'll, get remarried. 16:39 Right, get remarried very quickly to help deal 16:42 with the pain etc. And then a year 16:45 later they say, how in the world did this happen? 16:48 And then it's very difficult to get back to 16:50 the place where they were, and so they really 16:52 need to endure through that 3 to 12 month 16:55 period as they gradually improve their thinking, 17:01 as they adapt to the loss and find ways of, 17:06 of replacing that loss as much as possible 17:11 in a healthy manner. So, they must move 17:14 then from the stage two to stage three? 17:16 Well, stage three is very important stage. 17:20 And this starts from 3 to 12 months after a loss. 17:24 And during this stage there is an incorporation 17:26 of new habits. There's also lifestyle changes 17:29 that occur as a result of the loss. 17:32 And during this stage there should be making 17:35 wise plans for the future. This is where 17:38 they're well thought out analytical plans. 17:42 So, in another words look before you leap 17:43 and you're, you're kind you're, you're, 17:45 you're experiencing the loss, but you just are 17:49 calculating this maybe involving other people. 17:52 That's right, and actually you can incorporate 17:54 some new healthy lifestyle habits 17:56 as a result. One of the ways in which 17:58 our 100-year-old person that I talked about 18:01 earlier and others do, do so well. 18:05 Even under loss is they use the loss actually 18:08 grow from the loss. And of course that's difficult 18:12 to think about particularly you know, 18:14 when you're dealing and really with that loss 18:17 the first week or so, but you need to start 18:20 analyzing it, how can I grow from this loss. 18:24 There was an interesting study done on men, 18:28 this was a study on men whose immune 18:30 systems had already been compromised, 18:32 so they were already ill. And they had experienced 18:36 the loss of a loved one. And this study group 18:41 became to see how they handle the loss 18:45 differently and what happened to their 18:47 immune system? And it turned out 65% of men 18:51 actually attempt to cognitively process 18:54 the loss. This is mains that they're reflecting 18:59 on the loss, they're reflecting on life's 19:01 meaning and value even that was a death 19:04 that they were dealing with; it does lead 19:06 people to a period of introspection. 19:09 And it turns out that's good. 19:11 You want to be in that 65% that are reflecting 19:15 on the loss. Okay. But after that the group 19:21 was pretty much equally divided three ways. 19:25 Group one, I think we have, there I say 19:28 graphic. For some their loved one's death 19:31 only emphasized the negative aspects of life. 19:35 Now, how do you think they did? Not so well, 19:38 they were looking at everything as a negative. 19:40 That's right, they did not do well, 19:42 their immune systems were further worsening 19:44 as a result. On group two, you would think 19:48 that this group did better they just simply 19:51 accepted the death and moved on. 19:54 And you would think well that's, that's healthier, 19:57 it turns out group two did no better than 20:01 group one in the study. So, minimizing 20:03 or ignoring it basically doesn't help. 20:05 It doesn't help like many people have previously 20:08 thought that it does. The only group that 20:12 significantly improved was group three. 20:16 And group three, the demise of their loved 20:18 one led them to a new found respect for life 20:21 and a commitment to significantly improve 20:24 their personal life. And those people's 20:28 immune system actually improved as a result 20:31 of the loss. Their immune system was better 20:34 after the loss long term then it was before 20:36 that loss occurred. So, that came from their 20:39 choice, their commitment, their analysis. 20:42 That's right, new found respect for a life 20:44 and a commitment to improve their personal life. 20:47 Did that happen ever in your life? 20:50 Actually it has I, I dealt with the loss four 20:54 years ago now, that was the hardest thing 20:58 that I've gone through, my father 21:00 and I were very close, he was always 21:03 a good counselor and I could call him up on 21:06 the phone, and he had never tell me what 21:09 to do when they were decisions, 21:10 but he would help clarify the principles 21:12 and the issues and of course leave the 21:15 decision with me, but it was almost like you know, 21:17 a phone call to Jesus Christ you know, 21:22 the way He helped clarify issues. 21:23 Of course my father was very close to God. 21:26 And it was also a very objective analyzer. 21:30 And he helped me I've done lot of things 21:31 including my books etc, the reason 21:33 why I haven't put out as many books likely 21:35 is because of, of that loss that we haven't 21:37 been able to, to necessarily replace 21:39 at this point in time, but it was a sudden death, 21:43 shocking death and it was a death that 21:48 I couldn't see really at the time how anything 21:50 good could come of it. I have to remind myself 21:54 that they were very good people that the Lord 21:58 allowed to die in the past you know, 21:59 even John the Revelator eventually died. 22:04 Of course John the Baptist died 22:05 and he was the greatest prophet etc. 22:08 So, just because it was a death doesn't mean 22:10 or even a young death doesn't mean 22:12 the Lord is not with the individual at all, 22:15 but I had to realize that my growing from 22:20 the loss occurred because I recognize my 22:24 need to establish the spiritual connection 22:27 like my father had. So, you made a 22:30 commitment to that. I made a commitment to that. 22:32 And I knew I couldn't call him up anymore 22:34 and get that wisdom and it was so easy before, 22:37 but now I committed to establishing a much 22:42 improved relationship with God, so that 22:44 I can hear the same voice that he heard. 22:46 Yeah. And, and get it directly from, 22:51 from the spiritual sword. And that's gonna be 22:53 a blessing not only to you, but hopefully 22:55 to your boys as well, so as they have a 22:58 relationship with your dad. Right. 23:00 Well, you know I thought about as you're talking 23:02 I had a similar loss one generation removed 23:06 I was attending the, the Adventist 23:09 Theological Seminary two years back now 23:12 in the early 90s and late 80s, early 90s 23:17 and my grandfather was older than and 23:19 he moved in with me because he was getting 23:22 up in years. And like I said that Psalm 23:25 had talked about declaring God's strength 23:28 to this generation, the generation to come 23:30 he took that seriously and he would go with me 23:33 and do almost everything with me. 23:35 And he was quite objective as well, 23:37 I mean I was on a basketball team 23:39 and he was say to me, you know, 23:40 that's really kind of crazy to run up and down. 23:44 Let me understand you're trying to put 23:45 this ball through this hoop here, 23:47 okay he says now I don't, I don't understand 23:49 the real focus of that and the eternal scheme 23:52 of things, but I'll go with you and he would 23:54 pray for us and he would say, you know, 23:56 Lord protect these foolish young people as they 24:00 run up and down and put that ball there 24:02 and you know, we called our team the Patriarchs, 24:04 we named it after him because 24:05 he was a Patriarch. And you know, 24:09 as I would go to the school 24:10 there I'd come home and I tell him some ideas 24:13 and he'd say, well give me that volume 24:15 there off of the shelf or give me the Bible 24:19 and read this verse with that, or give me 24:21 you know, that the red book there or there, 24:24 read that. And it would be exactly what 24:28 I needed to hear. And I became aware 24:31 of that really the Lord was using him 24:35 and send him to help me out, whereas he was 24:38 asking me to help him. And I remember as well 24:42 when he died that I made a strong commitment to 24:50 I basically said, I want to be like grandfather, 24:54 I want to be, yes, connected with God, 24:58 I want to have those spiritual resources. 25:01 And that that, that was a defining part of life, 25:06 defining part. Yes, you know it's interesting 25:09 and the classical work ministry of healing 25:11 Ellen White tells a story and of course 25:14 many bird people know this story, 25:17 when you're trying to teach a bird a song 25:19 particularly birds are capable of learning songs. 25:23 They can learn a snitch of that, a trill of that, 25:25 but it's not until you darken the cage 25:28 and teach that song over and over that 25:32 then that bird would break forth in perfect 25:34 melody on that song in the dark. 25:37 And then you can uncover the cage 25:39 and that song will be there for the bird's 25:42 rest of its life. In other words, 25:44 the Lord may have a song to teach us 25:47 and it's through the shadows of reflection 25:50 that we often learn. Another poet by the name 25:53 of Jane Eagleson wrote a beautiful poem about 25:58 how the mountain tops are glorious, 26:01 but it's in the valleys that we grow. 26:04 And that's, that so true, I mean people that 26:06 have experienced a loss know that I mean 26:09 you look back in your journals actually 26:11 you read the Bible. Many times the best things 26:14 come out of you know, the worse situation, 26:17 right, Book of Lamentations is 26:20 all about sorrow, but you know the steadfast 26:23 love of the Lord never ceases, 26:24 his mercies never come to an end, 26:26 they're new every morning, 26:28 great is thy faithfulness, that wonderful text right 26:30 there in the middle of it, yeah, Isaiah 63 26:33 where the Lord says, "In all their afflictions, 26:35 I was afflicted with them." All of those texts. 26:37 Yeah, and for every disappointment 26:41 for a Christian there is an appointment. 26:43 That's right. Alright, and so we need 26:45 to recognize that instead of just festering 26:48 on the disappointment. You know, Daniel never 26:52 festered on it, he had to put up with it, 26:54 he didn't enjoy it, but he stayed close 26:57 to God and eventually he saw the appointment. 27:00 That's wonderful and you know, 27:01 I think it's beautiful too, we got a last minute 27:03 here when you understand what the Bible teaches 27:06 about death itself, I mean this is one of the 27:09 losses that we're talking about that, 27:11 death according to the Bible is a sleep. 27:14 That's right. And you don't go immediately to 27:17 heaven or something like that. So you know, 27:20 some of these people that in their lives 27:21 'cause they think they'll be immediately 27:23 there in heaven and, and what not. 27:26 Well you know, Susan Smith backed her 27:28 car into the lake to send her 27:30 "four children to heaven" because of the marital 27:32 problems that her and her husband were having. 27:34 And if she truly did that she should be a hero, 27:37 but most people don't believe in that firmly 27:40 enough to do what she did, 27:41 and it's an erroneous belief that leads to a 27:43 lot of problems. So, it's important to understand 27:46 really what happens to people when they die, 27:48 but you know I think the most important thing 27:50 when we deal with loss is understanding 27:52 the resurrection power of Christ 27:55 and claiming that as well. |
Revised 2014-12-17