Participants: Margot Marshall (Host), Dr. John Clark, Jenifer Skues
Series Code: HL
Program Code: HL000001A
00:15 Welcome to Healthy Living!
00:17 I'm your host Margot Marshall
00:19 Diabetes is one of the 10 leading causes
00:22 of death in the world,
00:24 and it's emerging as a global epidemic.
00:27 Are you at risk?
00:28 And is there anything you can do about it?
00:31 Stay tuned for the good news.
01:08 With me in the studio today I have Dr. John Clark
01:12 and Jennifer Skues who is a Health Psychologist.
01:15 So, welcome John and welcome Jennifer, to the program.
01:17 Thank you!
01:19 John, you have an amazing story of someone recovering
01:23 from type 2 diabetes and I'd love you to lead out
01:26 with that story.
01:28 Yes indeed, and type 2 diabetes affects so many people.
01:32 This is a story about somebody who had it for 30 years...
01:36 Oh my goodness! ... and actually overcame it.
01:39 But in case a few of our viewers don't know what the
01:43 diabetes is all about...
01:44 It comes in two types; type 1 is when your pancreas
01:48 quits working and type 2 is when you become insulin-resistant,
01:52 your body won't respond to insulin. Sure
01:55 So we'll be talking about a type 2 diabetic.
01:57 I came into contact with him when he had been in
02:01 the hospital for 3 months.
02:04 He was in and out of the ICU; he had foot ulcers.
02:08 ICU, intensive care unit? Intensive care unit.
02:12 That sounds pretty bad. Yes
02:15 An understatement, yes. Very serious.
02:17 On different drugs and so then when they wanted to take him
02:22 to surgery, he was too sick, but he had foot ulcers for which
02:25 he needed surgery, and the whole department
02:29 in the hospital was worried about him.
02:31 They finally gave up on doing surgery;
02:34 got him well enough to send home and he had to
02:37 come back to the hospital or to the dialysis unit
02:40 3 times a week for dialysis. Wow
02:43 So here's a man with a 30-year history of diabetes;
02:46 he's got kidney failure, and he's got foot ulcers
02:49 for which they want to amputate part of his feet.
02:52 So there are complications of diabetes, aren't there?
02:54 The kidney failure and the foot ulcers?
02:59 Very common complications.
03:01 Foot ulcers are the #1 cause of amputations
03:05 at least in America.
03:07 And so, I went to visit this gentleman in his home.
03:10 And I sat down with him and I asked him all kinds of
03:13 questions that I knew could be related to his disease,
03:16 about what he ate like for breakfast, lunch and supper;
03:20 how much water he drank.
03:21 What's this supper? We call it "tea."
03:24 That's right tea. Okay
03:28 Here in Australia, if we say "supper,"
03:30 that's what you have after tea,
03:32 yes, so anyway, just to clear that one up.
03:35 Yes as tea and he was definitely doing some things
03:40 that could be contributing to his disease.
03:44 Well then I sat down and gave him a program based on
03:47 the original diet from the Genesis account,
03:51 about good fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds.
03:54 We had him drinking more water,
03:56 had him doing exercise.
03:58 You might wonder how can a guy with foot ulcers exercise.
04:01 I was wondering that, yes. How did he do that?
04:03 He had special shoes made for his feet,
04:07 and he also had some walking aids like a walker.
04:12 Well, he took the program seriously.
04:15 He realized he could die.
04:16 I mean, there were people in his church,
04:18 that were praying for him, thinking the next thing
04:20 they're going to be doing is attending his funeral.
04:23 And, in fact, when they went to visit him in the hospital,
04:25 they said... "He was like he had Alzheimer's."
04:27 He didn't recognize them. Truly?
04:29 He was just really in bad shape.
04:31 That is... that's really...
04:33 So it took him, to get to the point of death
04:35 before he would do anything about it.
04:36 Prior to that, his lifestyle was not conducive
04:39 to treating diabetes. That's right!
04:42 So did he know some of this advice that you gave him,
04:45 was he aware of that before you saw him,
04:47 or and just not doing it or?
04:50 You know, he knew a lot more than he was practicing.
04:52 Okay! But look, isn't that true of us all?
04:55 You know, we know better than we do.
04:57 I think that's a pretty fair comment.
04:59 It is... it's like a balance between what I'd really
05:02 want to do if I just went all abandoned-out and did it,
05:05 and what I know is really healthy for me.
05:08 I remember a comment once...
05:10 "Some people change their ways when they see the light,
05:13 and others, only when they feel the heat."
05:16 A lot of people wait for the heat.
05:18 And I guess that's what happened in his case,
05:20 but go on and tell us what happened there.
05:22 And so the heat was on, I mean, he is on dialysis,
05:25 and they told him he would never get off of dialysis.
05:29 Tell us what dialysis is, John.
05:31 When your kidneys fail... your kidneys are sort of like
05:34 built in dialysis machines, and so they make a machine
05:38 outside your body to take your blood out.
05:40 They literally stick needles in your arm, take the blood out,
05:43 run it through a machine that purifies it,
05:47 and then run it back into your body.
05:49 And so, 3 times a week for 3 to 4 hours, he will sit there
05:53 and let his blood go through a machine and come back.
05:55 That must be incredibly stressful.
05:58 I mean, the stress of having diabetes, being at that point,
06:01 and his family would have been really stressed,
06:03 then having to go and have all this done...
06:05 I mean, just to have your blood removed and that,
06:07 so that would have not helped the diabetes
06:10 in the sense of stress is a problem.
06:12 That's true, it's true...
06:14 So he has gone home now and he is having this dialysis
06:18 3 times a week and taking up about half-a-day of his life
06:21 3 times a week and his family. Yeah, go on...
06:25 And so we put him on a program with foods good for the kidneys,
06:29 drinking a lot more water than
06:30 the dialysis people said he should be drinking,
06:33 and exercising periodically through the day,
06:36 not just one big marathon to see how far he could walk,
06:39 but little walks periodically, little x2,
06:44 use his upper body strength for doing things,
06:46 and so he took the program seriously.
06:50 Six weeks later, he came to his church group and he said,
06:54 "I have a testimony," he raised his hand,
06:57 and they were glad to hear from him.
06:58 He said, "I've said goodbye to three things."
07:02 He said, "Number one, I've said goodbye to diabetes.
07:05 Hmm, 6 weeks... Six weeks!
07:08 He has had it for 30 years and he was ready to die
07:11 from complications and in 6 weeks, he said goodbye to it.
07:16 He was no longer on insulin and no longer on drugs.
07:19 And not on dialysis, I presume...
07:22 Well, dialysis was the next thing.
07:25 Then he said, "I've lost 20 kilos!" Wow!
07:29 He wasn't so sure about that,
07:31 he sort of felt like he'd like to weigh more,
07:34 but he wasn't overly thin or anything,
07:37 but he sort of gave a funny comment on that...
07:39 "Well, I guess I didn't need it."
07:41 Most people want to lose more and not weigh more.
07:43 And then he said #3, "They've told me,
07:49 I don't have to come back to dialysis anymore,
07:52 my kidneys are functioning normally."
07:53 Isn't that amazing! That is just incredible!
07:56 So those 3 things were what helped him.
07:59 We might get a little bit more information
08:02 from you shortly about exactly
08:05 what you got him eating and so on.
08:07 But Jenny, is there anything else,
08:10 you're a health psychologist, Jennifer,
08:12 and is there anything else that might have contributed to his...
08:17 Well stress is a huge factor, in fact, they're saying
08:20 about 90% of these types of illnesses are stress-related
08:27 and lifestyle, of course, but when you're stressed,
08:29 your body is full of adrenalin and cortisol.
08:32 It's revving the engine constantly.
08:34 It means the kidneys are doing overtime.
08:35 The insulin production is being stressed, so there's a lot
08:40 that causes the kidneys to be impacted that way,
08:44 and it wouldn't have been just stress in a short time.
08:46 This would have been long-term stress and then you combine
08:49 that with diet and lack of exercise,
08:51 not enough fluids in the system, they've got physiological
08:55 stresses as well as your psychological stressors.
08:57 Yes and that's interesting, isn't it, because it's not just,
09:00 I mean all of those things that you mentioned are very
09:02 powerful, but there's more to it and that 90%
09:05 has me intrigued. Oh, it's huge!
09:07 Your sanity at 90% of illnesses and lifestyle
09:13 are stress-related.
09:14 If you have a look at your cancers, your diabetes,
09:16 all of these illnesses can be prevented by people doing
09:21 stress management and changing their lifestyle.
09:24 Well I do the stress management, John changes the lifestyle.
09:27 But you're a good combination.
09:28 We are, we do work well together.
09:30 That's really great and it's wonderful
09:32 to have both of you here so that we can get
09:35 the input from both of you because you're both
09:37 experts in your field.
09:39 Let's go back to you, John, and just maybe give us a
09:41 little bit more information about exactly what it was
09:44 in terms of what you asked Pastor?Foist to start eating
09:51 or not eating as the case may be.
09:54 What were the changes that he made?
09:59 We especially asked him to lay off of oils.
10:02 We're talking fats in the diet, anything that came from a
10:05 bottle, like corn oil or olive oil or coconut oil.
10:09 The oils tend to cause the cells to fill up quickly with calories
10:14 and then they're resistant to having sugar pushed into them
10:17 and the person ends up with high blood sugar, diabetes...
10:22 And so we asked him not to eat any refined foods
10:25 including oils, but the other refined foods that we
10:28 wanted him to avoid was any refined grains.
10:31 Now in the plant... Such as um, what would they be
10:37 White flour? Yeah, the white flour.
10:39 Yes, white flour, white pasta, white rice...
10:42 Cookies and cakes and... Boxed cereals
10:45 Yeah and all that stuff people really like.
10:49 And so we have this patient who is wanting
10:52 to stay off of these things because we want to make
10:56 sure he gets the fiber and if you have the fiber,
11:00 then the fiber has the minerals and the minerals are what
11:03 the diabetic needs like magnesium and chromium to help
11:06 fight the insulin resistance.
11:08 It takes chromium to get the sugar to the cells.
11:11 So we can't have him eating food that's
11:14 depleted of important minerals.
11:15 No... Before you go on, I think we've got a photo of
11:19 Pastor Foist? it might be nice if we
11:21 could have a look at that, and you can...
11:23 This is when he's starting to get a bit better, I believe,
11:25 a new covering, so he's looking pretty good.
11:27 Oh there we go, oh look at that...
11:28 This is about 3 months after he was into the program,
11:31 and he was coming to church with no walking aid.
11:34 Which is amazing! Yes!
11:36 And he continued to improve dramatically
11:39 even after this. Even after that?
11:41 So, he had already said goodbye to diabetes and dialysis,
11:45 and some weight and he continued to improve - that's beautiful.
11:50 See, one of the other problems with something like diabetes
11:52 is to do with the blood sugar levels and with the diabetes,
11:56 the blood sugar levels can shoot up,
11:58 but they can also drop right down. Yes
12:00 And when, psychologically or emotionally, when that happens,
12:04 it's a rollercoaster emotionally and your stress levels
12:07 go up and down at the same time,
12:09 and it actually mimics like a bipolar effect.
12:12 So that means someone whose blood sugars are
12:15 going up and down all the time,
12:17 it's like they've experienced that heightened mania,
12:19 they're on a high or that low depression. Right
12:22 So it does impact the psychology of the person,
12:27 and how they function.
12:28 And often what I do with my clients is check with them.
12:30 Yeah, and they're coming in and their mood is all over the place
12:33 and often a psychiatrist would diagnose them with
12:35 bipolar disorder - when actual fact,
12:38 it's blood sugar-related or stress-related, it's amazing.
12:42 That's incredible! So you would be getting
12:43 treated for the wrong disorder.
12:45 And that means you're going to prevent the diabetes,
12:47 so I work with some of John's principles in that sense
12:50 of getting them to monitor their diet,
12:52 get rid of sugars in their diet and refined foods.
12:55 And the difference is huge. Yes
12:57 Yes, it often treats the problem.
12:59 About these refined foods, let me say this...
13:03 In Australia and I think it's probably pretty true
13:05 in other developed countries, more than half of the food
13:10 budget goes on those kinds of things.
13:13 I know, for the junk food factor.
13:14 Foods that don't form the basis of a healthy diet.
13:17 More than half, it's not good is it?
13:20 And it must have been quite difficult, John, I think for...
13:23 we haven't really heard exactly what you told him to do
13:28 or not to do, or you've started with refined foods,
13:31 but it must have been a difficult thing.
13:33 Did he find it difficult to make the changes?
13:35 He found it pretty hard.
13:37 It was challenging for him, and in fact, this had been
13:39 his struggle - he knew some of the things
13:41 he should and shouldn't be doing.
13:42 But I got several calls from his wife saying,
13:46 "Couldn't we just use a little bit of olive oil or... "
13:49 You know, he wants this and he wants that,
13:52 and it's a struggle to make changes, isn't it Jenny?
13:55 And this is what I help people to do because if I'm asking
13:58 them to change, like he had to, you really need to help them
14:02 with it and I find with change, if you get them not to
14:05 focus on the whole lot, so don't look at all
14:07 I have to give up... let's just focus on one thing,
14:10 and work with that and what we call "chunking it."
14:13 So when the brain has a chunk, it can deal with it,
14:15 but when it looks at the bigger picture,
14:16 and that's what he would have done for years.
14:18 He would have been thinking about,
14:20 "Oh, I've got all these changes and I can't do it,"
14:22 and it was stressing him, so he never did it.
14:25 And imagine the family, they would have been highly
14:27 stressed with all that he was going through.
14:29 John, you mentioned his wife ringing you up and saying
14:32 he wants some oil and so on, and can we...
14:35 Now that's a very interesting thing because I'm getting
14:39 an idea that she must have been very supportive
14:41 and helping him to stay on track,
14:44 a bit of accountability there, yes?
14:47 Very supportive and asking me questions,
14:49 and looking for recipes, and asking about his
14:53 activity and there was a lot going on there.
14:57 So here's a guy that's circling the drain,
14:59 looking like he's going to die.
15:01 We didn't just take him in baby steps,
15:03 we gave him the whole program at once, boatloads. Yes
15:07 It was life-threatening, what he had was this "end-stage,"
15:09 and that's when you have to do radical with the
15:11 "you do or I do" - that's when you have to really push them
15:15 to do that.
15:17 Do an intervention. That's right.
15:19 And I think that it's very important to realize,
15:21 at this point, that people who have support like
15:25 he was obviously getting is a huge difference.
15:28 And they find that a supportive environment
15:31 is the best predictor of long-term success,
15:34 so he was a very fortunate person and I guess
15:37 not everybody is going to have that kind of support.
15:40 In fact, it might be the opposite.
15:41 It might be people who just think, "it's not for me,
15:46 you're on your own, I can't be on board with that."
15:47 I have a lot of clients who don't have that support,
15:50 and a lot of their problem is they feel so alone,
15:52 and they don't have motivation because
15:55 there's no one to support them.
15:56 So when I work with them closely, I am part of their
15:59 support system and we sort of look at supports
16:02 because they don't have the social supports at that point.
16:04 But once they improve a bit, we can look at them getting
16:07 out and meeting people and, you know, because that's
16:09 part of health is to have those support systems.
16:12 Absolutely, absolutely, huge!
16:15 And, so a little bit more about...
16:17 About his diet, especially important for somebody
16:21 who has had end stage diabetes,
16:24 and it has gone to kidney failure,
16:27 is that we want to have them eat foods that don't put more
16:31 stress on the kidneys.
16:33 Anything that's going to take more time for the kidneys
16:37 to work with is going to slow them down.
16:39 So we had him taking away any foods... fried foods,
16:43 any food created to rotting, spoiling, fermenting,
16:46 aging, like vinegar, cheese, soy sauce...
16:51 anything that has any of the taints of rot in it is going to
16:55 put more work to the kidneys.
16:57 So we had him on a very strict diet,
17:00 and then exercise was extremely important.
17:03 If you just sit and do nothing, your kidneys will slow down
17:06 and almost stop. Wow
17:08 Some patients, you put them in the hospital, put them in a bed,
17:10 and their kidneys will just slow way down.
17:12 And so they give them a certain drug that will
17:16 pick them back up again.
17:19 So we had him doing little activities all day long.
17:21 You see, if you sit in a chair for a number of hours,
17:24 you can hardly counteract that by any amount of activity.
17:28 The amount you sat doing nothing is very traumatic
17:31 to your system. Say that again...
17:33 You're saying if you sit for hours doing nothing,
17:36 it's hard to counteract what happened in that time?
17:39 That's right, it's not like you could sit all day at a job,
17:43 on a computer and then go run a marathon and fix the fact
17:46 that you had been sitting there all day.
17:48 That's serious isn't it?
17:52 Because if people who do, I'm thinking of myself,
17:56 I tend to do a lot of that kind of work and, hmm, so it's
18:03 important to get up and move frequently.
18:06 How frequently should people, just in general,
18:09 how frequently should they be not sitting.
18:11 How frequently should they break that sitting?
18:15 Well, if you can, it would be good to get up every 30 minutes.
18:18 It's good for the brain too, I mean, after about 30 minutes
18:21 of sitting there, your brain has gone into
18:24 sleep wave practically. Slows down, yes,
18:26 and it can't focus and can't concentrate easily.
18:29 So you need to get up and get movement going.
18:31 It really makes a difference.
18:32 There are businesses who have their
18:35 board meetings standing up and they have the
18:36 higher tables now. What a good idea!
18:38 Yeah, they're actually doing this, so it's good.
18:41 But that's awful to think, you know, I can't get away
18:45 from this, awful to think that you can't undo what happened
18:48 during that time.
18:50 When you sit there, your blood slows down,
18:53 inflammation builds up, your blood vessels get stiff,
18:56 you have to counteract that or you're going to end up with
18:59 an inflammatory disease. Yes
19:02 So I guess, the essential thing you did was you
19:05 were getting him moving more and moving frequently.
19:08 How much water were you getting him to drink?
19:10 I had him take 3 liters of water a day. Ooo, okay.
19:13 One when he got up, one, 2 hours after breakfast,
19:17 and one, 2 hours after lunch so it wouldn't interfere
19:19 with his digestion. Okay
19:21 And so he is having a whole food plant-based diet...
19:26 that would probably sum it up what you're getting him to eat.
19:28 That would be a very good summary.
19:29 And plenty of activity that is going throughout the day.
19:33 And what was the other thing?
19:35 Exercise, the food and drinking water.
19:38 This sounds almost too simple, but Jenny, you're also
19:41 talking about the role that stress played,
19:44 and so I guess his stress levels were improving
19:48 as he began to feel well and it was seen that this was working.
19:52 When you're stressed, it hard to do those things, you see,
19:55 because the brain is just so focused on the stress
19:59 that it can't think - it mobilizes the ability
20:01 for the brain to function.
20:03 But one of the other things, in listening to you, John,
20:06 is his ability to give up because I deal a lot with
20:11 addictions and food is an addiction.
20:12 On that level, junk food and refined foods are highly
20:15 addictive, sugars are highly addictive,
20:17 oils are highly addictive,
20:18 and that would have been a struggle for him
20:21 because he had to very rapidly overcome that...
20:23 And this is where I find people relapse,
20:27 but he couldn't afford to relapse.
20:28 But one of the things you mentioned, as a pastor,
20:31 one of his big strengths would be his spiritual faith
20:33 because they find that people who do have faith,
20:37 and this is where I'm involved at times with
20:40 what they call the "12-Step Program" which is
20:42 which is a more spiritually focused program.
20:44 Recovery is much quicker, much better and more long-term.
20:48 So for him, maybe that was
20:49 part of, and his family, could have been part of the process.
20:52 Very much so and they were praying all the way through it.
20:55 They had the church praying for him.
20:57 Do you know, it's an interesting thing, but most of the
21:02 prayers that are offered to God are for health, health recovery.
21:06 And that's Biblical and it's very appropriate.
21:10 And it would seem as though God wasn't hearing or answering
21:13 the prayers of this pastor, but He did because He
21:18 brought you into his life and you helped him to cooperate
21:21 with the laws - the natural laws that God has placed in our body.
21:25 And so, it is the mental aspect as you talked about, Jenny,
21:29 the physical, the social support that he was getting
21:31 from his wife and his church family,
21:33 and then there is also cooperating with the laws
21:39 because it's almost like a tug of war...
21:42 You've got one pulling this way, one pulling that way,
21:45 and if we've got the spiritual pulling us in the right
21:48 direction, and we are tugging hard with the physical aspect,
21:52 you're not going anywhere.
21:54 And so, he had to come to that point where he thought,
21:56 "Lord, I really do want to be well and, yes, I've come to
22:00 the point where I'm going to not fight against basically
22:04 what is making me sick."
22:06 They all do work together, these things work together.
22:09 In fact, they are a like a beautiful blend, they're not
22:11 at all in separate departments.
22:14 We're a total package, we're not just an individual
22:17 brain or a body, but the brain and the body
22:20 work well together and we have a huge capacity with the brain
22:24 that is still unexplored.
22:26 Science only knows about 40% of brain function.
22:30 Technology has speeded it up,
22:31 and it gives us some wonderful insights.
22:33 But, it's like the unknown frontier,
22:37 and the brain capacity constantly amazes people
22:40 because we can go beyond things if we apply our brain.
22:44 Yes, and you're talking about how our thoughts
22:46 impact on us and you're talking about plasticity.
22:51 Just mention a bit about that.
22:52 Okay, well every thought you have
22:55 impacts every cell of the body.
22:57 So when I have a thought, if I have a negative thought,
22:59 every cell in my body responds, but it responds negatively,
23:04 and then if I have a positive thought,
23:06 it works in reverse and every cell of the body
23:09 and the brain responds positively.
23:11 And, therefore, it impacts that negativity or positivity
23:15 impacts your biochemistry; it impacts your hormonal
23:20 capacity and that means we don't realize how much
23:23 power we have over... and that's that brain/body
23:27 connection - it gives us vitality.
23:31 And even things that they find when someone looks upwards.
23:34 It uplifts the brain chemistry in the body.
23:37 When we look down, which is what depressed people do,
23:40 it actually brings the physiology in the brain
23:42 chemistry down.
23:45 So just the fact... I mean there again,
23:47 you've got your body connecting
23:49 to the brain and changing things, very, very interesting,
23:54 and I don't think we nearly understand all that goes on
23:58 in all those interconnections and so on.
24:00 Well the good thing is you don't have to feel it,
24:02 you just have to do it.
24:04 This person had to do it, the pastor - he had to do it,
24:07 and he was at the point where
24:09 he would follow your instructions because
24:11 it was that or die, basically, he had nothing to lose.
24:14 But in doing that, he focused out of himself on to
24:16 what he was doing and, therefore, the stress levels
24:19 would have come down and he would have had a more
24:21 positive outlook, if that makes sense.
24:23 And, I found that it makes me smile a bit, John,
24:28 when I think about, I think you mentioned when he went
24:31 back to church and people saw him as they weren't
24:33 expecting to see him alive and were planning for his funeral.
24:36 What was their reaction when he turned up?
24:39 The first time he came back to church, he hadn't been there
24:42 in 4 months, he had been in the intensive care unit,
24:45 they stood and clapped.
24:47 They gave him a standing ovation.
24:50 Isn't that amazing?
24:51 Yeah, they were waiting for the funeral, weren't they?
24:53 Isn't that just incredible that they would do that.
24:56 And, I find that, I guess I'm thinking of another aspect now.
25:01 You know we pray to God and He answers our prayers,
25:04 and we nearly faint!
25:06 You know, just sort of think... "Oh, well I did ask You
25:09 for that, but yeah right, shock! It's hard to believe,
25:15 and, look, it makes me just think of...
25:18 I was running a program once, a very intensive 1-month program
25:23 4 nights a week for 4 weeks, and a gentleman
25:29 who was an engineer had diabetes and a few other things too.
25:32 So one night just before the program, he said,
25:35 "Ah, can I talk to you?" I said, "Sure."
25:38 He said, "Well, I took my blood sugar this morning
25:42 and it was 4." That translates to 72.
25:48 And he said, "Well, that can't be right because
25:51 it's never been 4."
25:53 I mean, he came to the program to get well.
25:55 But he said, "Well, that can't be true."
25:57 So he said, "I pricked the next finger and that was 4."
26:00 And he thought, "No, it's never been 4,
26:02 this cannot be right."
26:03 So he did the next finger, all 10 fingers!
26:09 And they all came up 4 and he was shocked!
26:12 And I said, "Would you like to tell the group...
26:14 there was 100 people in the group...
26:16 and he said, "Oh no, no, no, you can if you like, but not me"
26:19 So I told the group and they just thought it was hilarious
26:22 how you ask for these things and they happen and it's like,
26:26 "Wow!" He seemed to think every
26:28 finger would have a different reading.
26:31 But I was definitely encouraged because
26:33 he's an engineer, so if he is building a bridge,
26:35 he'd be very sure! He'd be very sure,
26:38 so I thought that was very part of his profession to just
26:42 not to sort of assume anything.
26:45 Yeah, so it is a beautiful story, John, just beautiful
26:48 and I just hope that it encourages a lot of people
26:52 out there who may be suffering with diabetes or some of these
26:56 other diseases that we'll be talking about...
26:59 that it can happen.
27:00 What about, I mean, this is just one story you told us,
27:04 I'm sure there are many such instances
27:07 that you could tell us about too and many studies
27:10 that have been done which confirm the benefits
27:14 of a plant-based diet.
27:15 Definitely, and diabetes is almost like alcoholism,
27:19 you quit drinking, then you quit being the alcoholic.
27:22 Diabetes is so much a lifestyle based disease,
27:26 that if you have it, it's almost like an indication that
27:29 you definitely have some things wrong in your lifestyle,
27:33 especially for type 2 diabetes. Yes, yes
27:36 This is the amazing part, it is so easily treated
27:39 if you do the right thing, and this is why
27:43 with what you're doing, it's so important because people
27:45 can get well very easily. ... And quickly! Yes!
27:48 It doesn't take forever.
27:50 That's the astounding thing, it's just so quick!
27:53 Amazing! I think our bodies are very forgiving,
27:56 just like the One who created them.
27:58 Well, I don't know whether we've answered all your questions
28:02 I'm sure, we've probably haven't, but if not,
28:06 you can contact Dr. John Clark or Jennifer on:
28:13 and they will be able to answer your specific questions.
28:16 And if you'd like to watch our programs on demand,
28:19 you can download a fact sheet just visit 3abnaustralia.org.au
28:26 and click the watch button.
28:28 And remember, today is the first day of the rest of your life.