Participants: Margot Marshall (Host), Dr. John Clark, Jenifer Skues
Series Code: HL
Program Code: HL000006A
00:14 7Welcome to "Healthy Living!"
00:16 I'm your host Margot Marshall.
00:18 Can stress cause high cholesterol?
00:21 Can what's going on in our mind really affect our body?
00:25 You might be surprised by the answer!
01:02 Joining me in the studio is Jenifer Skues, a health
01:06 psychologist and Dr. John Clark.
01:08 Welcome Jenifer, welcome John! Thank you.
01:11 Nice to have you with us.
01:12 And we're going to be having a talk today that
01:16 I'd like you to start off with John.
01:18 Well, I want to tell you about a lady who illustrates our
01:22 high cholesterol and high stress scenario.
01:26 I was at a set of meetings and we had many
01:30 presenters in different rooms, and I met this lady
01:34 at lunchtime and she said, "Dr. Clark, can I talk to you about
01:38 my cholesterol?"
01:39 I said, "Sure, let's talk about your cholesterol."
01:42 She said, "I have high cholesterol and I've been
01:45 doing everything I can to get it down and I have
01:48 not been successful."
01:50 She says, "I've been exercising."
01:52 "Well that's a good thing."
01:53 She said, "I've been eating a vegan diet (in other words,
01:56 a plant-based diet),"
01:57 "Well that's a good thing."
01:58 She says, "I've been getting extra fiber
02:00 like oat bran." "Well that's a good thing."
02:03 She was on the right track.
02:04 But she said, "I cannot get my cholesterol down."
02:07 So I was a bit puzzled.
02:09 Okay, you're eating a lot of good things here and this
02:12 is working well for you but
02:14 it's not bringing your cholesterol down.
02:16 And so I started asking questions...
02:18 I said, "Well, (knowing that there were many meetings
02:21 going on), have you come to any of my meetings?"
02:23 She said, "Well, I would have liked to have, but I wasn't
02:27 able to because I was interested in these other meetings
02:29 over here where one of the presenters
02:31 is talking about stress!"
02:33 I said, "Well that's interesting, I did notice
02:35 his name on the board and his topics,
02:38 but it's interesting." She said, "Yes it is."
02:40 I said, "How is it going for you."
02:42 She said, "Well, it's going well but... and it was
02:45 going well until he asked us to take out a piece of paper
02:49 and a pen and then he said, "Start writing about your
02:54 most troubled relationship."
02:56 She said, "At that point, my mind went immediately
02:59 to my ex-husband and all I could do is cry."
03:05 Okay, big clue going on there.
03:09 So this is right on our topic today about stress
03:12 causing high cholesterol.
03:14 Jeni, this is your specialty.
03:17 It is, so I do a lot of what we call, "stress management"
03:21 because everyone I see has high stress levels - whether it be
03:25 because of their disorder or because of
03:26 things that have happened.
03:28 And I, in specializing with people with trauma,
03:30 a lot of them have very high stress and there are actually
03:33 three stages of stress and this was identified by
03:37 a gentleman by the name of " Hans Selye" back in the 50s.
03:39 And he observed and put it into these three stages
03:43 which still stands today with people
03:45 who are working with stress.
03:46 It gives us a really good view.
03:48 Your first stage is called "the alarm stage,"
03:51 and what happens in the alarm stage is that you can be doing
03:56 something quite casually and something happens
03:58 and it triggers the alarm response.
04:01 For example... Driving down the road and a car shoots out
04:03 and nearly hits you - well if we didn't have the alarm response,
04:07 we would be going, "Here comes a car and I'm going to die
04:09 literally," so that gives us the ability within nanoseconds
04:13 to put the foot on the break, stop the car.
04:15 But in that process, you have an incredible surge of
04:18 adrenalin and cortisol which overloads the system
04:21 and that's fine for short-term but when it's long-term,
04:24 it becomes a problem.
04:26 But the interesting thing is, in nature, they've actually
04:29 observed this in animals because we have what's called
04:33 "the fight/flight response." Yes
04:34 And that's what the alarm reaction is, it sets up that
04:37 fight/flight and that's what the adrenalin and cortisol
04:39 is to fight off the stress or whatever it is,
04:43 or to able to run from it.
04:46 So, an animal when it's being chased by a predator in nature,
04:49 and say the predator catches up,
04:52 maybe it's the dear and the lion and what will happen
04:55 is that dear can do a drop and it's unconscious.
04:58 It's like it's dead, it's in a stage of total unconsciousness.
05:02 Sometimes that predator will think - it will come back later
05:05 or it's already dead and will leave it alone.
05:08 And they found that animal will come out of that state
05:11 and they do heavy breathing, shaking, trembling,
05:14 and then they get up and they shake themselves,
05:16 and what they've done is reset their fight/flight mechanism
05:20 which is a very interesting phenomena because
05:22 that means they are now ready to fight or flight again. Yes.
05:25 And they found that if the person doesn't do that
05:27 or, I'm sorry, if the animal doesn't do that,
05:30 what will happen is that animal will be ready to be picked off,
05:33 it can no longer fight or flight.
05:35 So that means the next predator that comes along,
05:38 it will be easy prey. I see.
05:40 Now they've noticed this that's an alarm response;
05:43 they've noticed this with humans but the problem is
05:46 what we do is we don't discharge that moment,
05:50 not like the animal did.
05:51 So we don't do things that help us to release that trauma,
05:55 and then we can't effectively fight or flight,
05:59 and they call it "the freeze mode." Oh.
06:01 So actually go into freeze where that adrenalin response
06:05 is and that moment in time is frozen in the brain,
06:08 in the body and every cell of the body. Oh okay.
06:10 Now when we maintain that, we go into stage 2
06:13 which is resistance and that means we're resisting
06:16 the stressor and we're stacking it.
06:18 And it's like work environment is a good example
06:21 where we can't get out of it and we've got to put up with
06:24 the irritable boss or the bully or whatever.
06:27 And that means we're constantly in that mode from when we
06:30 go home, come back to work and that is high stress.
06:34 And that means the body is running on adrenalin
06:37 and cortisol, and as we know and you would know, that
06:40 that causes a lot of inflammation in the brain,
06:42 toxicity and it would be at this point that this person,
06:47 you were talking about, would have started
06:49 to have cholesterol problems because stress on that level
06:52 changes the way the body and the physiology is working.
06:57 Now the third stage is if we continue with that,
06:59 what happens is we're going to burnout in exhaustion.
07:02 And the adrenals can become so exhausted, they can no longer
07:06 do their function, the person will die.
07:08 So there are people I see who, the doctor is giving
07:12 cortisol to because the stress has been so prolonged
07:15 and so dynamic that they are in that stage.
07:19 Yeah, the adrenals can no longer function.
07:22 And so when the adrenals actually stop functioning,
07:25 you die - you cannot survive without adrenal function.
07:29 Wow. Yeah, so it's a bit of an
07:32 eye-opener for all those people
07:33 out there who are really stressed.
07:35 And my eyes just opened very wide.
07:38 I didn't realize that it was basically a vital organ then,
07:42 I never knew that.
07:44 It is, we don't realize it and there are people out there
07:46 who have actually succumbed to that or are being
07:49 treated for adrenal failure. Yes.
07:52 But the good news is the body can do a lot of repair work,
07:55 but you've got to get out of that stress zone
07:58 for the body to correct itself because we have what's called
08:01 a "homeostasis environment," and that means the body has
08:05 been created to balance itself.
08:07 So we have mechanisms that will help change that...
08:11 For example, if we're cold, the liver will produce heat
08:14 by shaking the body to pick up again. Yes.
08:17 So we have all these mechanisms, for blood
08:19 sugar - insulin to correct the blood sugar level, you see.
08:22 So the body is an amazing thing. It is.
08:26 It absolutely is! And the brain.
08:27 John, I think you had another story we'd like to hear.
08:31 Would you share that with us now?
08:33 Yeah, and I'd like to get into the second story,
08:35 but before we do that, we might just mention the mechanism
08:38 here, I'm glad we've mentioned the cortisol and as the cortisol
08:43 goes up, it makes your blood sugar go up. Okay.
08:46 And when your blood sugar goes up,
08:47 your insulin wants to push it down,
08:49 so the insulin levels go up.
08:51 But it's insulin that is making your cholesterol go high.
08:55 So for this particular individual,
08:58 who is experiencing lots of stress ongoing at the
09:03 second or maybe third stage that you were mentioning there,
09:06 she's going to have her high cholesterol until she can...
09:10 Well how is she going to shake herself and snort and get
09:14 the stress off - I'm sort of interested in this.
09:16 Well the problem is with stress, it doesn't matter whether
09:19 it's real or imagined and one of the things you said,
09:22 it wasn't until she sat down and started writing - that the
09:25 stress factor kicked in again.
09:27 Now she's been sitting with that grief or that tearfulness
09:31 or that stress of whatever happened with her husband
09:34 that is like the time bomb waiting to go off.
09:38 And if it's imagined stress, it does as much damage
09:42 and it triggers the same response as real stress. Oh.
09:45 So it doesn't matter whether we imagine it or it's actually
09:48 happening and this is where trauma comes in to it.
09:51 She would have been carrying the trauma because when we
09:53 keep going over an event that was real
09:56 and stressful, we keep reigniting the stressors
09:59 and that means we're constantly doing that process.
10:04 Alright, and we keep going through it and there's an
10:07 interesting comment - Mark Twain had some wonderful
10:10 sayings and he said, "I've been through some terrible
10:13 things in my life and some of them actually happened!"
10:15 Laughter... That's what we do. We do, don't we? Yes!
10:19 We're constantly reliving things.
10:21 Relive or worry about things that might happen.
10:24 That emotion that maybe they will and often they don't.
10:28 So we can do it for future events that we fear
10:30 and are stressful, as well as go over old events. Yes.
10:33 That means we're not here in the present.
10:35 I heard a saying once that said, "Worry is the interest
10:39 paid on trouble before it's due." That's right!
10:43 That's what we do! And we do!
10:45 We have all these problems with physiology.
10:48 And so that brings us to our second story here and I worked
10:51 with a lady for a while in my teaching across the
10:56 United States where she would do a cooking school,
10:59 and she had high cholesterol.
11:02 Now this lady was living what she taught.
11:05 She made the food, it was good food,
11:08 food that would not be likely to raise cholesterol,
11:11 but her cholesterol was quite high.
11:14 And then as we got to know her, we discovered something
11:17 in her life that was very traumatic, she
11:20 had a son - the son had gotten involved with the wrong group.
11:24 He had gone south in another country and in another
11:28 gotten involved in drugs.
11:30 The drug ring had figured out that maybe he was leaking
11:33 information - they thought he was "a nark,"
11:37 a person telling on them.
11:39 And so they killed him!
11:42 They literally threw him off a multistory building.
11:46 Well yeah, how traumatic and she found out
11:50 about this and, of course, you can't get any kind of justice
11:53 in some of these other countries and it just wore on her.
11:57 The lack of justice, the no rhyme or reason to this,
12:01 and they'd done it to her son.
12:03 In fact, the villains were actually from America,
12:06 came back and she saw them and they sort of
12:08 taunted her that they had done this.
12:10 And so she was very angry at these murderers.
12:15 And this anger welled up in her and she kept riding it
12:19 and this was the source of her stress.
12:21 But then, a couple of years later, she got in to
12:24 understanding of the value of forgiveness; went to some
12:28 seminars on what forgiveness is, how to forgive others,
12:33 and how to be forgiven and once she had gone through this,
12:37 and she actually went through the process of forgiving
12:39 the villains regardless of whether they deserved it or not,
12:43 then her cholesterol came back down to normal!
12:47 Well she was working on that stage 1, stage 2,
12:49 going into stage 3, so she stopped resisting the stressors
12:54 and getting stressed about it and did an action that helped
12:57 her to heal, and she went off that alarm response
13:02 which is where we're meant to be until we need it.
13:04 That's really interesting, Jeni.
13:06 John, have you got some thoughts on that?
13:08 So what I'm seeing here is that she had a high cholesterol
13:13 through that whole sequence of events where stress
13:17 raises cortisol; cortisol raises your blood sugar;
13:19 blood sugar raises your insulin and then insulin
13:22 drives up the cholesterol and then when she came to
13:27 forgiveness, the cortisol went down; therefore the blood
13:31 sugars came down; therefore the insulin went down,
13:34 and therefore her cholesterol came down.
13:36 And so the whole system is affected then by stress!
13:39 And so the most important thing for her, at least for her
13:42 own survival was forgiveness.
13:44 Well it's her perception and she changed her perception.
13:47 She changed her perception from anger and pain to
13:49 forgiving, then it's going to relieve the stress problem.
13:53 But if she doesn't have all this anger and fear and pain,
13:56 and so forth, who is going to get back at these guys?
14:00 Well she must have had to forgive them and it is
14:04 commonly seen where I've seen people who were in court
14:07 have actually forgiven the person who murdered
14:09 their daughter, for example, and of course, everyone finds
14:12 that hard to comprehend - how can you do that?
14:14 That's where she had faith and this comes back to our
14:17 spiritual dynamic because faith helps a lot of healing
14:21 and it helps to get you off of those alarm reactions
14:23 and to find a healing pathway.
14:26 And certainly the benefit was to her as well
14:28 as to these, you know, these young people,
14:31 it's interesting, isn't it?
14:33 And I appreciated those pathways that you explained,
14:36 John and it might not hurt to say it one more time
14:39 the pathway where what's going on in our mind is actually
14:42 significantly affecting what's going on in our body.
14:46 And there was that pathway that started out with the stress.
14:49 Stress and then the stress raises the cortisol which is
14:53 that stress hormone that Jeni mentioned.
14:55 And the cortisol makes your blood sugar go up.
14:58 People who take that as a drug, called prednisone,
15:01 will find their blood sugars go up.
15:03 And so the blood sugar goes up and then the response
15:06 to high blood sugar is insulin, and then when you get
15:09 the insulin going up, it raises your cholesterol.
15:13 And so it's a big sequence of events but the end result is
15:18 you can know if you're having a high cholesterol all the time,
15:21 and nothing else seems to be bringing it down,
15:24 you might be suffering from the effects of emotional stress,
15:28 and these days, you think of all the stressors.
15:30 I mean everything from electronic things we
15:32 carry and the communication age to the rising bills
15:38 and your rent and then the new laws they put into effect
15:42 to help control humanity.
15:45 Everything brings stress to a
15:47 higher level in this day and age.
15:48 Yes, that's interesting and it's interesting how, you know,
15:53 you brought out the spiritual part that there's the
15:55 consensus that people who have a good connection,
15:59 a good spiritual connection, had better mental
16:03 and physical health.
16:04 And this has been borne out in what we've just said,
16:07 so there's a spiritual dimension in there that's very, very
16:10 beneficial to us.
16:15 It puts us back in that stage 1 off the alarm, so because
16:19 the ultimate is to have the balance and when we're at
16:21 peace with ourselves, we have that balance. Yes.
16:24 The moment we get back into the alarm reaction,
16:28 we actually drive up the adrenalin and the cortisol
16:31 which we've heard from the physiology but it also causes
16:33 a lot of inflammation in the brain and it does a lot of
16:36 other types of damage as well, not just with cholesterol.
16:40 But the alarm reaction is to protect us,
16:43 not to live in it. That's right!
16:45 So if we get off that alarm reaction, this is where
16:47 this lady hadn't done it for years,
16:49 she carried this for years but in resolving it,
16:52 she's got a permanent solution to her whole
16:55 physiology and body and it's like a self-healing mechanism
16:58 to correct itself.
17:00 So we've got a mind-body connection and we've got
17:03 a spiritual-body connection and that all of those
17:06 elements of our being the mental, physical, spiritual,
17:09 social, they're all blended in there and they all
17:12 affect each other.
17:14 Well like I find one of the important things to do
17:17 to bring your stress levels down is to correct
17:20 the heart rate. Oh yes!
17:21 When your heart does overtime, your brain
17:24 continues to perceive it as "you're under attack,
17:26 you're under stress," and keeps pumping adrenalin
17:29 which is against what the heart needs
17:31 and the heart then just gets worse.
17:33 So when you do breathing where you focus the breathing
17:37 around the heart area where
17:39 the lungs are behind the heart, it actually
17:41 calms and evens the heartbeat and that gets the
17:44 system to get off the alarm response. Yes.
17:46 It actually helps it to calm down.
17:48 So tell us, just explain that breathing
17:50 that you're talking about.
17:51 They found that even if just putting your hand over
17:54 your heart will calm it and that's off
17:55 from scientific studies.
17:57 So our body has good mechanisms.
18:00 You're going to show us what to do.
18:02 Yeah, just put your hand like this.
18:04 It actually feels lovely.
18:05 You can feel it. It's a lovely feeling! Yeah.
18:08 And then when you breathe into the hand space
18:10 where the heart is and you focus the breath there,
18:13 and then you slowly breathe out and just slow the
18:15 heart rate down and even it out - the heart rate,
18:18 the beat between evens out.
18:21 So you've got the beat, you've got an even space,
18:23 even space - and that tells the brain that all is well.
18:26 Laughter... Patriotic American there
18:29 with your hand on your heart!
18:31 But it's a beautiful feeling, as soon as you touch that there,
18:34 it has some kind of a very
18:36 noticeable effect and that breathing.
18:39 Well simple things work well and that's the best de-stressor.
18:42 And when I'm driving down the road and my alarm goes on
18:45 because someone nearly hits me, that's what I do. Okay.
18:47 I start doing that breathing, I might even rub my chest area,
18:51 put my hand over that area.
18:52 Okay, you have a hand on the wheel. Yes!
18:54 If not, I stay on an alarm reaction and then I'm ready
18:57 to overreact to things (Yes) because I've got
19:00 too much adrenalin and cortisol. Yes, yes.
19:02 And, talk about overreacting, years back now,
19:09 we read in the paper that (and this had happened a
19:11 few doors from us), but we read in the paper where
19:13 someone killed his friend in the lounge room and it was all
19:17 over which TV channel to watch. Okay.
19:20 And I'm trying to imagine him in prison over the years,
19:23 thinking, "Was that worth it?"
19:27 Was it really worth it? You know, he just
19:29 overreacted and ended up
19:31 and he got into a brawl and he killed him.
19:33 Well that person would have probably been running
19:36 on adrenalin most of the time, I mean, they were in probably
19:39 the resistant stage and something triggered them
19:42 and that's with adrenalin-cortisol anger
19:45 aggression and you react out, very dangerous.
19:48 You see it on the roads, road-rage and things like
19:52 that too where people really do overreact to things.
19:57 And I suspect for your case with this lady,
20:01 she had been reacting to that stressor and who knows
20:05 what else was stressful in her life that would have added
20:08 into when you met her and the stress was the problem
20:12 not so much the diet and health side of it,
20:14 so it's really working with both angles because people
20:18 who aren't stressed do digest a lot better, but if they're
20:22 having all the wrong foods, eventually
20:23 that can catch up with them.
20:25 Yes, this is true and what's really fascinating is some
20:28 of the drugs that have been used to help with
20:31 high blood pressure and high cholesterol actually
20:34 have a dramatic effect on the brain to suppress it
20:37 in a way that the brain will no longer be responding
20:40 to stressors.
20:42 They are literally dumbing down the patient,
20:44 but the idea is - is that they help the blood pressure
20:47 or help the cholesterol through a neural mechanism
20:50 rather than actually affecting the physiology surrounding
20:53 the blood pressure or cholesterol.
20:56 That's not good to hear!
20:59 Or it is good to hear, it's not good that it happens.
21:02 It's good that we understand more because then you can
21:05 recognize it and do something about it when you
21:07 feel those physiological responses.
21:09 Yes, how much better to use your technique, Jeni,
21:12 and to just... you know.
21:13 How quickly does the body respond to that breathing?
21:18 Probably 2 or 3 breaths in and out - well you felt it
21:22 when you put your hand over that area of your heart.
21:25 But it does not take long and I find what happens
21:28 because the brain is neuroplastic wire,
21:30 it likes that response.
21:32 So your brain wants to keep doing it and I find
21:35 now that it goes to autopilot, that when I get
21:38 a bit stressed or I'm reacting, I start doing the breathing,
21:41 not because I've thought of it because my brain
21:43 has learned that that works and it wants me to be relaxed.
21:48 So we don't have to consciously do it all the time.
21:50 Once we get a mechanism that works, the brain will rapidly
21:54 learn it and want to do it.
21:55 We re-do the habit, we're changing the habit. Yes.
21:59 So one of the things we would like to do in this program
22:02 is show how it goes both ways. Yes.
22:04 And it's interesting that in your physiology,
22:07 if you are on diet that is inflaming your system,
22:11 such as our oxidized oils that we have talked about
22:14 or fried foods, or foods that are created through rotting,
22:18 fermenting and ageing and inflammation is going up
22:20 in your body - it's a physiological stress.
22:24 And this can make your cholesterol go up.
22:26 It can also make your stress go up where you are more
22:29 on tippy-edge ready to react to things that are happening
22:33 in your environment in ways that you wouldn't
22:34 otherwise react to them had you been on a
22:37 calming diet, a more nutritious diet, a diet
22:39 to help you so you have lower inflammation. Yes.
22:42 Yes, so I see what you mean, it goes both ways.
22:46 The things we eat can raise the stress - the stress
22:48 raises the cholesterol.
22:49 And stress causes brain inflammation and when the
22:51 brain is inflamed, it's going to react.
22:53 So we're a whole person aren't we? We are.
22:55 A total package. And all of these things...
22:56 the mental, physical, spiritual, social - they all
22:59 work together and if one is working against the other,
23:03 it sets off this chain reaction, so all of
23:05 these things are very important. They are.
23:09 And I often work from body to brain, not brain to body
23:13 which is most psychologists will work with the brain,
23:15 but my work starts with the body.
23:17 I think that's fantastic because you
23:18 can do it both ways, can't you? Yes!
23:20 Calm the physiology calm the brain.
23:23 You bring inflammation down.
23:25 So that's what we do. Yes.
23:28 That's good that you have two strings to your
23:32 bow so to speak, with you know with using
23:35 the physical part and the foods and so on and then you're
23:38 able to work from the stress part and the mentor part
23:42 and how they both work with each other.
23:44 There's a lot of research in this area now and people
23:49 can access this just online or in books that will
23:52 educate them and help them to understand it
23:54 because if you understand the brain and the body and the
23:56 connection, you work a lot smarter.
23:58 They found in science that when the brain knows how it works,
24:01 it works smarter. Sure.
24:02 So that's an important point.
24:04 Now we've talked about some of the foods that raise cholesterol
24:08 as well because that's probably the focus, it's the cholesterol,
24:11 we've looked at how stress can.
24:13 So what foods would actually be low in cholesterol
24:17 or can help to lower cholesterol?
24:19 We need to be very clear on this because this is
24:22 what we're building up to.
24:24 What would be foods that help our cholesterol to be low?
24:27 You have to realize why your cholesterol goes high,
24:30 and there are three uses of cholesterol in your body;
24:33 one is for cell walls, one is also for hormones,
24:39 and the third one as a digestive agent.
24:43 In your body, the #1 way that cholesterol is used is
24:46 as a digestive agent and here's the way it works...
24:50 When you eat food, it has fat in it but your blood is
24:53 made out of water - you can't mix fat and water very easily
24:57 and so you need an emulsifier, a soap if you please. Yeah okay.
25:01 Cholesterol is that soap that helps mix water and oil,
25:07 and so anything you eat that will require more soap,
25:11 i.e., fats, is going to raise your cholesterol.
25:15 If you think about the hardest fat to wash off a plate
25:19 at dishwashing time... We think of that sometime,
25:23 you know, is that what I've put in my body
25:24 when I used to do things.
25:26 Then you've just discovered the thing that will raise
25:28 your cholesterol the highest.
25:29 For example, if I had a pat of butter on a plate,
25:32 and instead of taking a knife and flipping it off into the
25:35 garbage, I decided I'm going to melt that butter with
25:37 soap and water, it would take a lot of soap and water
25:41 to melt that butter.
25:43 And so any food that's got fat in it - be it cholesterol
25:46 food or animal shortening or vegetable shortening,
25:50 it's going to take a certain amount of soap to emulsify.
25:55 That said, when you eat foods that have oils in them
25:59 that have been extracted, in other words they went through
26:02 a phase where they were in a bottle, then you're going
26:05 to have much higher cholesterol.
26:07 On the other hand, if you're eating foods that have
26:09 their oils still packaged as God packed them
26:12 with the fiber, then it's going to have a less effect
26:16 to raise your cholesterol.
26:17 So in studies where they compared cheese, which is a
26:20 hard fat and which would take a lot of soap,
26:22 to vegetable oil, they found if you switch from cheese
26:25 to vegetable oil, you could drop your cholesterol
26:28 by about 20%. Wow.
26:30 But, if you switched from cheese to eating nuts, like almonds,
26:34 you could drop your cholesterol by 40% and so twice as good
26:39 an affect by changing from a hard fat to a fat that
26:43 occurs naturally in nature.
26:45 And so we look at nuts, avocados and olives and things like
26:49 that as good sources of fat because they're packaged
26:52 as they should be.
26:54 But bottled oils, for example, if you go and get a
26:58 bran muffin at your local convenience store,
27:01 you look at the ingredients - it's got lots of oil.
27:04 The bran isn't going to counteract that oil because
27:07 that oil is not packaged with the bran as it should be
27:10 as it would have been in a nut.
27:12 And you're going to get high cholesterol from that oil
27:15 being in that product.
27:17 And so any fats in your diet
27:18 are going to raise your cholesterol.
27:20 And that's what amuses me with products, you go
27:22 and what they do is extract everything from the seed
27:25 and then they use the refined flour, then they add
27:27 back gluten but it was in there the first time!
27:32 Why do you remove it?
27:33 We've altered so many foods, so many foods and I don't
27:39 remember the figures but there used to be an "X" amount of
27:43 foods in the supermarkets and now there's many, many
27:47 times that many and they're not new plants or anything
27:51 like that, they're just things that have been altered,
27:53 and altered and altered and packaged them
27:55 in just so many ways.
27:58 And so we've done a disservice actually to the foods
28:02 we actually eat if we could almost call some of them foods
28:05 and they haven't served us very well but the stress
28:09 thing that you talked about today has just been amazing
28:12 because I don't know whether we really fully appreciate
28:16 what our thoughts can do to our body. Yes.
28:20 One thought is enough to tell the whole body.
28:23 Yes, that mind-body connection is very powerful. Yes.
28:25 Thank you both so much for what you've had to say today.
28:28 It's been a really great program.
28:30 Well that's all for today and you can view our programs
28:33 on demand if you'd like to see them again by visiting
28:36 our website at: 3abnaustralia.org.au
28:40 Just click on the watch button.
28:41 And you can also download our fact sheets.
28:44 You might not remember everything we've said,
28:46 so you can do it that way and if you have a health concern,
28:50 you'd like to discuss with Dr. John Clark or Jenifer,
28:53 send an email to:
28:54 email@example.com .au
28:58 We look forward to having you join us next time
29:00 on "Healthy Living."