Participants: Margot Marshall (Host), Dr. John Clark, Jenifer Skues
Series Code: HL
Program Code: HL000012A
00:15 Welcome to "Healthy Living!"
00:17 I'm your host Margot Marshall.
00:18 Pain can be horrible and if it's prolonged or frequent
00:23 it can significantly impact on the quality of our lives.
00:27 Are there lifestyle practices that can reduce chronic pain
00:31 such as back pain and arthritis? Stay tuned!
01:10 Joining me in the studio we have Jenifer Skues, a health
01:13 psychologist and Dr. John Clark.
01:15 Welcome to Jenifer and welcome to you, John. Thank you!
01:18 Thank you for joining us in this program.
01:20 And pain really is just something that can really
01:24 spoil lives and be very, very challenging to
01:27 the person suffering and the people who love them.
01:31 So would you like to lead off and we want to hear
01:34 some solutions today if there are some for people about pain.
01:39 Thanks so much, John.
01:40 Personally, I'm allergic to pain. Laughter.
01:42 I think many people are, you're not alone.
01:45 And our story today comes from the United States.
01:51 A lady came to some of my meetings where I was
01:54 giving a presentation on back pain.
01:58 This lady had had pain since she was in, what we call,
02:02 junior high school, 7th and 8th grade.
02:05 She was on muscle relaxers and narcotics during that time,
02:11 and then she graduated; she got married;
02:14 she had her first child but during the pregnancy,
02:18 she couldn't be on all these muscle relaxers because babies
02:21 don't need that kind of drugs.
02:22 And so she spent her entire pregnancy in and out of
02:26 bed doing physical therapy exercises so that she could
02:31 endure her back pain.
02:34 She went on to live a life where she started her own
02:37 business doing seamstress work and she would often work
02:42 in the garden on the weekend for an hour or two,
02:45 but it would give her back pain that would keep her
02:47 from being efficient in her work during the week.
02:50 When she got into her 60s, the pain was getting worse
02:54 and so she decided to go for medical help.
02:57 She had an MRI scan of her back and she went and saw
03:01 a spine surgeon.
03:03 He offered to do a big spine surgery where he would take
03:08 out multiple discs; put in titanium discs; put rods and
03:12 screws in her back and not long after having this consult
03:17 with the spine surgeon, she came to my meetings
03:21 unbeknownst to me and didn't even talk to me that I
03:25 ever recollect during that time.
03:28 But she came to this topic on back pain where I present
03:32 all the principles of why people have back pain and what
03:35 they can do about it, lifestyle-wise, to fix it.
03:39 Well, I came back to that community six months later
03:44 and she made an appointment to see me.
03:47 And I often see patients on the go while I'm on the road
03:51 just to give them advice.
03:53 Well she came along and she wanted to tell me her story,
03:57 And so we sat down and she told me the story about junior high
04:01 as I've related and she says, "You know, when you gave that
04:04 talk on back pain, I decided, okay this probably
04:07 won't work but I'm going to give it a 10-day trial.
04:13 I'm going to try your program for 10 days."
04:16 Okay, here's a lifetime of back pain starting -
04:19 Yeah, I was just working it out, if she was
04:22 what 13, 14- somewhere there, early teens and now she's
04:26 in her 60s, that's more than 40 years.
04:31 Many years of suffering!
04:32 Most of her life. Yes.
04:34 And so we sat down and she said she had decided
04:38 she'd give it a 10-day trial and she did.
04:41 But after 7 days, she was feeling so good, she decided,
04:44 "I'm going to go work in that garden."
04:46 She worked in the garden for 4 hours with absolutely
04:50 no pain and the next week, no pain and when I saw her
04:55 in 6 months, no pain!
04:57 And so by changing her lifestyle, she had changed
05:01 her life and she had gotten back her life and she
05:05 had gotten over her back pain.
05:07 That's amazing! I'm very, very, very interested to know
05:11 what you told her, but before we do, I'd like to hear
05:14 a little bit from you, Jenifer.
05:16 Okay, well I do have a lot of clients who suffer back pain
05:19 and it's a very difficult thing for people.
05:22 It impacts their life because they get depression and anxiety;
05:25 their high stress levels; they don't sleep well because
05:28 of their pain - so we have sort of multiple disorders,
05:31 but there are a number of things I've found out or realized
05:34 about what causes the pain and why it's maintained and it
05:37 isn't always the injury.
05:40 There are things like what we call "cellular memory"
05:42 where the body has a memory and when a blow has happened
05:45 to the body or you're in an accident and there's pain,
05:49 the cells remember it.
05:50 And then further down the track, events that are
05:53 similar to, because that memory is triggered by the
05:55 five senses, so it might be the sound of an accident,
05:58 you know, the body responds with that same pain and
06:01 people don't connect it.
06:03 I have a very good example of that and many, many years ago,
06:06 I went overseas and I was given a smallpox vaccination,
06:09 and if anyone has had one, they're very painful,
06:11 but I had a really bad reaction and was very sick for a while.
06:15 And they use a little pinprick and that didn't heal,
06:19 it took a long time - a few weeks
06:21 to really sort of calm down and 12 months exactly
06:25 to the day, for a number of years, it would flare up.
06:29 And I knew that because I checked my passport because
06:31 I thought well I had that last year and then it
06:33 happened again, so it was a number of years before my
06:36 body's memory disconnected that pain factor. That's amazing.
06:41 And I didn't understand it then, but now I understand
06:43 that every cell has a memory.
06:46 Yes, I've actually heard that from Dr. Arlene Taylor
06:49 talking about cellular memory, it's quite fascinating. It is.
06:52 John, do you want to give us some of the strategies
06:55 that you gave to this lady that helped her? Yes!
06:59 You see, when you're dealing with back pain,
07:02 you're dealing with a big problem that has
07:04 to do with blood flow.
07:05 A lot of times the blood going to the spine is not sufficient
07:11 and so what we're doing when we start targeting
07:13 the lifestyle factors that will help, we're helping
07:16 improve blood flow.
07:17 We actually have this saying in lifestyle medicine that
07:20 "Perfect health depends on perfect
07:23 circulation." I've heard that.
07:25 And if you doubt that, try stopping circulation,
07:28 health decreases rapidly.
07:30 But many people don't realize that when you have half
07:33 enough circulation, you probably have half enough health.
07:36 And so that's the area where we've worked
07:39 to improve the circulation.
07:41 So for her, for my program that I set out in the lecture,
07:46 I had them drink a lot more water.
07:49 A lot of people don't keep the blood vessels full of fluid.
07:52 If they're only half full, they're more concentrated
07:55 and it takes water to help wash out inflammation
07:58 and improve circulation.
08:01 The next thing that the program depends on is good exercise.
08:06 You see if you exercise, you pump the discs in your back.
08:11 Studies have been done on these discs showing that
08:14 if somebody eats a meal and then just sits down,
08:19 the food particles never make it into the disc,
08:23 but if they get up and walk around,
08:26 they pump the discs and then the nutrition
08:30 will make it to the center of the disc.
08:31 You see, discs don't necessarily have blood vessels going
08:34 through them - they depend on nutrition coming in from
08:38 the outsides through diffusion or soaking in as we might say.
08:42 That's something I didn't know.
08:44 Alright, so that's adequate water hydration
08:46 and then exercise.
08:50 Those two things, is there more?
08:51 And the exercise should be periodic and so I have
08:55 them get up in the morning and take a walk.
08:57 Walking is the best exercise for pumping those discs.
09:00 I had them take a walk immediately after breakfast.
09:03 It's a good time to walk to make sure the blood doesn't
09:05 all stagnate to the stomach, had them walk immediately
09:08 after lunch for the same reason and then for the water,
09:12 we have them drinking water periodically through the day,
09:15 usually 3 liters; one when they get up, one 2 hours after
09:18 breakfast and one 2 hours after lunch. Alright.
09:21 And then the food choices that we recommended that
09:26 I used in that particular lecture, I had them eating
09:28 a whole plant food breakfast.
09:30 About half of which would be something like oatmeal
09:33 and the other half would be fresh fruit.
09:36 And then for lunch, lots of fresh green leafy vegetables,
09:40 lots of salad-type things, maybe making up half
09:43 for lunch but no oils and no foods that are created through
09:47 inflammation, through bacteria eaten on the food
09:52 as in rotting foods, spoiling food, ageing food like
09:56 Some people say, "Well, but I was told to take apple cider
10:00 vinegar for my arthritis."
10:02 And you think, Okay, well some people ask me, "Wasn't
10:05 that a good idea?" I say, "Well, why don't you be
10:07 more natural and just eat the rotten apples? Laughter!
10:12 And people realize right away,
10:13 "Okay, that is a rotten apple, isn't it?"
10:15 And what would happen if you took one of those rotten
10:18 apples and instead of squeezing it into a bottle for vinegar,
10:21 you threw it in a batch of good apples,
10:22 what would happen to the good apples?
10:24 They'd go bad. They all go rotten!
10:25 So what happens if I eat a rotten apple or take
10:27 rotten apple juice - otherwise known as organic
10:29 apple cider vinegar with the mother and put it down
10:32 here in my salad where it's warm - what happens to my salad?
10:35 It all goes rotten!
10:36 And you look on labels, there's vinegar in bread;
10:39 there's vinegar in salad dressings; there's vinegar
10:41 in Vegenaise, mayonnaise, ketchup, tomato sauce,
10:45 and so people end up causing themselves trouble by
10:49 eating things that sort of light the fire for inflammation.
10:52 So the diet was like that, it's very interesting.
10:56 I'll tell you another story.
10:57 I had a lady came to me with serious knee arthritis
11:00 and back pain.
11:02 She was also suffering from leukemia. Okay.
11:06 She was on narcotics for pain from the leukemia,
11:10 from back pain and from the knee.
11:11 She was on disability.
11:13 She had had to quit her job, she was a postal worker.
11:17 And she came to me with this cancer and this arthritis
11:21 and so we set her up on a very similar program but we made
11:25 sure she wasn't getting any inflammatory foods in her diet.
11:28 And we had her doing hot and cold showers to stimulate
11:31 blood flow and I left that community because I was
11:36 usually in a community for about two weeks and then
11:38 would move on to another community to do meetings,
11:41 and some of her friends called me and "Ah, you wouldn't
11:44 believe what happened to Dottie (they called her Dottie,
11:47 that was her nickname)."
11:48 "You wouldn't believe what happened to Dottie."
11:50 I said, "Really? What's going on?"
11:52 She said, "She came to our group and she was shaky;
11:57 she was sweating; she felt like her heart was pounding
12:00 too fast and she felt like she was under anxiety;
12:04 she didn't know what was going on and then she realized,
12:08 "I haven't taken my morphine in 5 days."
12:11 Ah, she was going through withdrawal.
12:13 She was going through withdrawals - there was no
12:16 pain to trigger her need for narcotics and so she had
12:20 totally stopped and so today, she is drug-free, pain-free!
12:26 Isn't that wonderful. Yeah.
12:29 And that sort of brings to an important concept here
12:31 that there are foods that feed pain and there are foods
12:37 that fight pain.
12:38 You eat fried oils, you can expect pain.
12:42 You eat lettuce, tomatoes and avocados and cucumbers,
12:46 and all the good fresh fruits and vegetables, you can expect
12:49 pain to be a lot less.
12:51 This has to do with inflammation isn't it?
12:53 Which foods cause inflammation and stop inflammation
12:56 which is a wonderful thing. Yes.
12:58 Jenifer, you've got a few thoughts and different
13:00 strategies that can help with pain and I think
13:03 one of them was "pet therapy" which really appeals to me.
13:07 I've had pets as long as I can remember,
13:10 except until quite recently, but we were
13:12 not allowed to have them.
13:13 All this comes back to really being in the present
13:16 moment and doing things that connect the body and get the
13:20 good hormones going in the body.
13:22 And there are a number of things, pet therapy is
13:24 amongst them, I mean humor is another one.
13:26 When we laugh we produce lots of good endorphins which
13:29 are your happy hormones. Yes.
13:30 But they've done an interesting number of experiments
13:33 on pet therapy and they found that in one I read about
13:38 that they were taking a dog into an elderly folks home
13:43 who were often bedridden or in chairs and they had this
13:48 older lady sitting in a chair and they wired her up
13:50 and they did blood tests and they did the same to the dog.
13:53 And so they monitored both the dog and the lady and they
13:57 found that when she patted the dog and she connected
14:00 with the dog, that she got lots of these endorphins
14:02 or happy hormones and it really helped her just to be
14:06 in the present and feel good.
14:07 And as well, endorphins decrease pain, so they're
14:12 a very good antidote to pain.
14:14 It's like we've been given something in our body
14:16 that helps us with our pain and when we get the
14:19 endorphins going, the pain level goes down.
14:22 These endorphins, they're related to
14:23 morphine, is that right?
14:25 I don't know about that but it's possible.
14:28 Well they do say they're like hundreds of times
14:32 more powerful than morphine. Yes.
14:34 The endorphins are that good at reducing
14:36 pain and I've found that, but the interesting thing
14:39 with this experiment was that when they measured
14:41 the dog, the dog was having the same response.
14:43 Aw, isn't that precious! With the endorphins which is
14:46 what wags its tail, it's almost smiling! Yes.
14:48 So when they both interacted, they both got the benefit.
14:51 Oh, isn't that special! Yes.
14:53 It's a wonderful process. Not just one way.
14:55 So, yes, we do have a natural pain relief but how many
14:59 people when they're in pain laugh?
15:02 No, they don't, not unless they've got someone
15:05 to make them laugh.
15:07 Well I've found that with my father.
15:08 He was in a lot of pain in a nursing home for many years and
15:12 when I'd go in and talk to him and get him laughing, afterwards
15:15 - "Ah, that was so good, I didn't feel any pain. Yes!
15:18 See, because of this phenomenon.
15:19 Completely had their mind taken away, it distracts them.
15:22 Well, one, it focuses you in the present but it also
15:24 gets the endorphins going that bring the pain levels down. Yes.
15:28 You have any more thoughts there, John?
15:32 I had a patient came to me, she was actually a member of a
15:35 church I was attending and she would
15:38 often complain of back pain.
15:39 In fact, it would keep her from working, keep her from
15:42 coming to church.
15:43 And so I was practicing orthopedic surgery
15:48 back then and so I invited her to come to my office.
15:52 You know, come to my office, let's check out this pain,
15:54 and see if there isn't something that can be done.
15:57 And so she came to my office and we sat down and I had her
16:03 fill out a sheet of paper with some facts before she sat down.
16:07 She just filled the paper clear full and had written
16:10 in the margins and OH, okay! Laughter.
16:14 And so I asked her, "Well just tell me about
16:17 the back pain and how did it all begin?"
16:19 "Oh, 30 years ago, I was out on the farm an MY HUSBAND,
16:24 (laughter) made me lift the tongue of a really heavy
16:27 trailer, he should have known better than to make me lift
16:30 that and when I lifted that, I felt something go "pop"
16:33 in my back and I have NEVER been the same again!"
16:38 And the story sort of went on and on between what her
16:41 husband made her do and she was upset and I'm like,
16:45 "30 years ago, okay, what didn't heal?"
16:47 Bones heal in 3 or 4 months, ligaments, tendons and
16:51 muscles heal in 3 or 4 months, what didn't heal?
16:54 And, you know, it's like it doesn't fit physiology.
16:58 Why is this happening?
17:00 And, I realized, you know, with a big story like that,
17:04 the emotional mental factors.
17:07 The emotional pain was to do with the body's pain.
17:09 The body's memory again, every time she thought of
17:11 her husband, she thought of that event and the back was
17:13 going out in sympathy, literally. That's right!
17:17 And so I thought, "Okay, what she needs help with is
17:22 the mind-body connection."
17:24 So I had a set of audio CDs that were by some psychologist,
17:30 like Jeni, who cover mind-body connection things
17:33 and I loaned them to her.
17:35 And I said, "Here, listen through these, take some time
17:39 with them, sort of follow what they're saying see if it
17:42 isn't your case and isn't helpful."
17:45 Well, she listened to this and she was delighted!
17:48 "This is wonderful; this is just it; this is ME!"
17:52 And her pain went away and for 3 weeks, she cleaned house,
17:57 she gardened, she planted wild flowers out in the pasture.
18:01 She did all kinds of things and then whether subconsciously
18:06 or consciously, she realized that that farmer-husband
18:09 of hers didn't give her any attention unless she had some
18:12 physical ailment to complain about.
18:14 She got back her back pain and she got back her attention,
18:18 and at that point, I said, "Okay, I'm outta here,
18:20 if I solve the back pain, I've ruined the marriage."
18:23 But all to illustrate the mind-body connection is
18:27 huge in back pain.
18:29 There were several things there because one of them is the
18:33 illness behavior - she found that when she was having
18:36 pain, he gave her lots of attention which she wanted,
18:38 so that kept it going.
18:39 So that's the illness behavior, you learn to get
18:41 attention through your illness,
18:43 and did she ever recover from that?
18:45 You don't know? You don't know? Okay.
18:48 The other one is when we have a traumatic event
18:51 which is what she had - that was traumatic, but she
18:54 blamed her husband for it.
18:56 But a lot of the people I deal with actually have trauma
19:00 where they'll have an injury caused by
19:02 an accident for example.
19:03 So when they've had the trauma and the back has been injured,
19:07 then they go and have surgery and they've got plates
19:10 or screws and rods and all sorts of things which is highly
19:13 traumatic and the whole body doesn't like it - so they have
19:17 a more complex pain process because it's not just an
19:20 injury and some of those were injuries but they hadn't had
19:23 like that first lady, she didn't go and get surgery.
19:26 If she had, she'd probably would have had more problems
19:28 because she's got things that are going to aggravate it.
19:31 So I find I have to help people deal with it
19:34 in other ways as well, and yes, listening to your
19:37 dietary principles, I do do some of those and get them
19:40 on to the right diet and plenty of water.
19:42 But I have found that, in nature, there's an magnesium
19:46 chloride oil which they harvest from the sea and it's a
19:50 natural, it's not a true oil that it absorbs but it
19:54 actually helps to relax muscles; relaxes and heals the nerves,
19:58 and it also reduces inflammation as an anti-inflammatory.
20:01 So I often get them to do things like rub that
20:04 on the area as well - so they have extra things that help
20:07 because they've got this permanent aggravation
20:10 within their system. Yes.
20:12 The other thing I have to do is help them
20:14 to release the trauma because they are carrying a
20:17 traumatic memory from an event and it's not just
20:20 in the body, it's also in the mind and the emotions
20:23 and the nervous system.
20:24 So then we do some things to help them to allow the
20:28 body to correct itself.
20:30 And then, of course, we look at stress management
20:32 and relaxation strategies.
20:34 You say, "Allow the body to correct itself,"
20:36 what do you mean?
20:38 When the nervous system reacts to an event and it actually
20:41 freezes it, it can't release it, every time the person has a
20:46 memory of that event and it might not be a conscious
20:49 memory, it might be that person who was in a car accident,
20:52 is out somewhere and they hear an accident nearby,
20:55 and they find their body is starting to react because
20:58 the body responds to that.
20:59 But if I get them to realize that's what the body is doing
21:02 on a conscious level and then I use the breathing that we have
21:06 talked about before to slow the heart rate down, even it out
21:09 and what happens is it helps the nervous system
21:12 to release the stress of that event
21:14 that they've just dialed up.
21:15 Could there be unconscious cues,
21:17 things that they're not even aware of?
21:19 Well there are unconscious cues but that's where because it's
21:21 embedded in the five senses.
21:23 Our memory bank in our brain is a 5-sense around
21:26 video, it's not just the 2's, it's not just, you know,
21:29 sight and sound, it's all five senses - so it can do
21:32 with touch, sight, sound, smell, taste.
21:35 And when an event occurs, all of those senses are
21:39 embedded with the event, so if there are certain smells
21:42 around the accident, for example, they might go to
21:45 a garage and they smell a certain smell, it can
21:48 trigger the response. Oh okay, alright.
21:49 And we haven't mentioned arthritis, perhaps we
21:53 can have a little word about that, John.
21:56 Well the principles of back pain are the same principles
21:58 with arthritis and maybe we'll touch on the exercise
22:03 in arthritis - some people think, "Okay, well you know,
22:05 I'm not going to exercise too much because I don't want to
22:07 wear out my knees before retirement because I'm going to
22:10 need them during retirement to walk around
22:12 and see the world on my pension."
22:14 But in reality, if you don't use it, you lose it and what
22:18 happens with your cartilage, just like with your discs
22:21 needing pumped, your cartilage needs pumped.
22:24 It won't get nutrition to the cartilage if you don't use it,
22:28 and as you're walking, your cartilage is going pump-pump,
22:31 pump-pump and you're getting nutrition to it.
22:34 And that would also help you understand why we might
22:38 say weight loss is hugely helpful for arthritis.
22:42 If you have a pair of knees that are supposed to handle
22:47 100 kilograms and you weigh 200 kilograms,
22:50 what do you think has happened to the warranty on those knees?
22:53 It's going to run out a lot sooner, isn't it?
22:55 It's going to run out a lot sooner and the more weight,
22:58 more wear and tear, the more arthritis.
23:01 And so weight loss is actually hugely beneficial
23:04 for reducing arthritis and the symptoms of arthritis.
23:08 You can imagine if you weighed nothing, how would you
23:10 have any arthritis - on the other extreme of the spectrum.
23:14 And so our last discussion of weight loss really applies
23:18 a lot to arthritis as well.
23:21 Now in the food section again, thinking about what
23:24 foods are good for your cartilage, your cartilage is
23:28 made out of collagen.
23:30 Collagen if you look under a microscope, looks like a
23:33 rope, a 3-strand rope that is wound in a spiral,
23:38 and it so happens that vitamin C is the vitamin that is needed
23:45 to make that collagen wind in a spiral.
23:49 And you may have heard of what happens when you have no
23:52 vitamin C - the British sailors would get scurvy and so they
23:57 started keeping something on their ship to keep them from
23:59 getting scurvy that would give them vitamin C.
24:01 Does anybody know what that was?
24:03 Limes - I believe. Yes!
24:04 They called them "limees." That's right.
24:08 And so, if you are low in vitamin C, you have three times
24:11 the risk of getting arthritis, and vitamin D,
24:15 it doubles your risk if you're low in it for arthritis.
24:18 You want to make sure you get vitamin D from the sun;
24:20 get your vitamin C from good fruits and vegetables - fruits
24:23 like kiwi, oranges, lemons, pineapple.
24:28 And when you're sufficiently nourished, then you're
24:32 much less likely to get arthritis. Is that right?
24:36 Isn't that amazing, it seems to always come down
24:39 to the common denominators, does it?
24:41 You know, the good nutrition, the plant-based diet, exercise,
24:44 water and it just seems to be underlying all of the...
24:49 that we've even talked about which is pretty much
24:51 most of them by the time this series is complete,
24:54 that's really amazing.
24:56 Dr. Rosemary Stanton is the foremost dietitian in Australia,
25:01 and she said that a diet dominated by plant foods
25:07 is almost certainly the way of the future - not only for
25:10 our personal nutrition but for the health of the planet
25:13 because really we can't sustain the production of animal foods
25:18 and we really can't now, and it's just getting more so.
25:20 So the evidence is all there and wherever you turn,
25:24 whether it's the "World Health Organization" or the
25:26 "Australian Guide to Healthy Eating,"
25:27 or people who really shall I say not controlled by
25:36 vested interest, if I could say it that way,
25:38 they will tell you that this is the need - Dr. Esselstyn
25:42 and Colin Campbell, and so on.
25:44 The evidence is definitely all there.
25:47 Magnesium also is a key factor with arthritis and that's
25:51 why having the right food diet would help that,
25:53 but depletion of magnesium causes crystallization
25:57 of the calcium because it puts the calcium in the bones.
25:59 If we don't have it, then it's going to
26:00 crystallize and go into the joints.
26:03 So using again the magnesium oil can help to help with that.
26:07 Yes, you were saying that the other day
26:10 and I've really taken note of that.
26:13 Thank you for that, Jeni.
26:14 Anymore thoughts there that we
26:17 haven't really covered today, John?
26:19 Another therapy that we'll use for arthritis is charcoal
26:23 poultices which might seem like an unusual thing,
26:27 but I'll give you an example.
26:30 What we do is we make up a mixture of charcoal and some
26:33 food thickener that will make it into a playdough that
26:37 we can apply over a knee or an arm or an elbow or something,
26:43 and I had a gentleman who was camping next to me,
26:47 we were out in our caravan, and I asked him how he
26:50 was doing and we sat down and talked.
26:53 He was like in his 70s and he was still working,
26:56 driving a flatbed semi and I asked him, "Well,
27:01 how are you doing healthwise?"
27:04 And he said, "Well you know, I had arthritis in my knees.
27:06 All those years of jumping up and down from the flatbed
27:09 of the truck had worn out my knees and I went to see
27:12 my primary care doctor and they sent me to the orthopedic
27:15 surgeon and the orthopedic surgeon
27:17 signed me up for knee replacement."
27:19 And he said, "Well then my friends who knew
27:23 something about charcoal poultices said, "Well why
27:26 don't you try a charcoal poultice?"
27:28 He said, "I put a charcoal poultice on my knees
27:30 and the pain went away, and I'm wondering why
27:33 did I sign up for surgery?"
27:34 And so he ended up using charcoal poultices,
27:38 canceled the surgery and that was 3 years later.
27:41 He said about three times a month, he would put on a
27:44 charcoal poultice to take away the pain.
27:46 How would that work, how would charcoal help?
27:50 Charcoal pulls out the inflammation so that the knees
27:53 can recover on their own.
27:55 Isn't that such a simple thing to do?
27:57 Well that's all we have time for today but you can view our
28:00 programs on demand by visiting our website at:
28:06 Just click on the watch button and you can download
28:09 our fact sheets.
28:11 Now if you have a health concern that you'd like
28:13 to discuss with Dr. John or with Jenifer Skues, send an email to:
28:18 firstname.lastname@example.org .au
28:22 and join us next time for more secrets of healthy living.
28:25 God bless you!