Participants: Margot Marshall (Host), Dr. Eddie Ramirez
Series Code: HL
Program Code: HL000021A
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00:14 Welcome to "Healthy Living!"
00:16 I'm your host Margot Marshall. 00:18 There's a lot of controversy about soy, 00:21 is it good or bad for me? 00:23 And for that matter, is milk good or bad for me? 00:26 Stay tuned as we explore some of the current 00:29 research on these two foods. 01:08 When it comes to deciding whether a product is healthy 01:11 or not, vested interests aren't the best source of information. 01:15 So what does the research have to say about milk and soy? 01:19 Dr. Eddie Ramirez has studied the scientific research 01:22 and he's here today to share it with us. 01:24 Welcome Eddie! 01:26 Thank you very much for having me here. A pleasure! 01:29 What can you tell us about this controversy that goes 01:31 on about soy and then again, what about milk? 01:34 Yes, we're going to talk a lot about these two topics. 01:38 You will be receiving lots of information. 01:41 Get a pen and paper so you can take notes. 01:44 And when we're talking about milk, please understand 01:49 we are not talking about human breast milk. 01:52 That is something I encourage every single one of my 01:56 patients to breastfeed as much as possible. 02:01 It has huge implications in the health of the baby. 02:05 The risk of pneumonia, for example, decreases dramatically. 02:09 The risk of the famous crib death decreases dramatically 02:18 when a baby is breastfed. 02:21 The IQ of the baby is higher when they receive breast milk, 02:27 and there are studies that are tracing that kids that were 02:31 bottle-fed - they have higher risk of heart disease, diabetes, 02:36 Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis and the list 02:39 just goes on and on and on when you put things in 02:43 perspective, it's definitely worth it. 02:46 When I was living in Norway, I lived there for many years, 02:49 my first daughter was born there - they actually encourage 02:53 mothers to take one year off their job so they could 02:59 really focus on their baby because they saw the 03:03 implications that this would have 03:05 in the long-term of that baby. 03:08 So we are not going to be talking about breast milk, 03:10 you should do breast milk and so forth. 03:13 We're talking today about milk usually that comes from 03:19 cows - that's the one we're going to be talking about. 03:22 Alright, well that's good to clear that one up 03:23 and I'm glad you said that about breast milk because 03:25 it's just so important. Yes! 03:27 And you know, today there are many companies that 03:33 what they care about is money, 03:35 and not necessarily may be their well-being. 03:38 And we have created a science of creating the ideal cow, 03:45 and we can see that on the screen. 03:49 It's going to be weighing between 1,000 and 1,500 pounds 03:55 in American terms - we want this cow to grow as much as 04:00 possible. 04:02 And you know, in this industry, there are many things that 04:06 don't go right. 04:08 Just in America, almost a 100 million cows are 04:12 there and today, we are understanding the implications 04:17 of that including the beef cows, the milk cows and the calves. 04:23 And it is actually a little bit cruel the way this works; 04:29 cow's milk is designed for baby cows and those baby cows 04:35 are taken away from their mother. 04:37 You know how you love your baby and so forth? 04:40 Cows love their babies also and there is actually 04:44 some emotional disturbances and so forth, when they are 04:49 being taken away. 04:51 And see, the reason why there are issues with this 04:56 is because, as I mentioned and I'll repeat, cows' milk 05:01 is a fabulous food for the baby cow! 05:05 But the humans are not designed for this excess. 05:10 For example, when you see the protein amount on different 05:16 milks and how fast the animal doubles his weight, 05:21 you can see that correlationship. 05:23 For example, just last year I was in India. 05:27 I had the opportunity of visiting a fascinating place, 05:30 a temple where they would go there and worship rats! 05:35 And the irony is that there are people that are dying 05:40 of hunger in India, yet they are cooking and making 05:45 foods for rats! 05:48 There were thousands of thousands 05:50 of rats there in that temple. Oh. 05:54 Those rats, they need to double their weight in only 4.5 days. 06:02 So that's why rats' milk has 11.8 grams of protein, 06:12 so a very, very high amount. 06:14 You compare that with, for example, goats' milk 06:17 and that's 4.1 grams compared to the fact that it will 06:22 double its weight in 19 days, cows have 3.3 because 06:28 they'll double the weight in 47 days. 06:30 And please notice, human beings they will double their weight 06:35 in 180 days and that's why human milk has 1.2. 06:41 So compare the 1.2 to the 3.3 06:45 of cows. And this is the protein. 06:47 That's the protein content, and not only that, 06:50 all the other different indicators when you compare 06:54 how much it has milk, how much 06:56 human milk has, it's a big difference. 06:59 For example, calcium, you know; calcium - we're talking about 07:04 in the range of 40 grams compared to cows 198. 07:08 It is too much! 07:10 That's about 5 times as much calcium in cows' milk, 07:15 so not really designed for a human baby or human at all. 07:18 The same thing with phosphorus. That's right! 07:22 Phosphorus, 18 on human, 152 on the cows. 07:26 See, that is a lot and actually when you are eating 07:32 foods that are high in phosphorus, 07:36 the effect that that has on the human is that it 07:40 encourages throwing out the calcium 07:44 which is not a good idea. 07:45 You know, especially ladies, you want 07:48 to have your strong bones. 07:51 So it's like drinking soda pop. 07:54 See, soda pop is high in phosphorus and that creates 08:00 the leaking of the calcium. 08:02 The same thing with sodium. 08:03 Human milk 23, cows 80. Too much, it's too much! 08:09 Potassium also an excess. 08:12 So I don't like to encourage people to do this because I 08:18 know the negative implications that these have in their body. 08:22 Yes, so we tend to make cow's milk the benchmark 08:26 for nutrition for humans and you've just outlined 08:29 in every respect, it's just not 08:32 and it doesn't fit what we need at all. 08:34 In fact, right now I am involved in a big research 08:38 project in India - back when the English came to England, 08:44 they had the term "white schools," in which they were 08:50 encouraged drinking milk to the children. 08:55 But they did not realize there that a lot of the Indian 09:00 population actually has intolerance to the milk, 09:05 and right now that's exactly a research 09:08 project that we are doing. 09:10 Indian people are not just one group of people, 09:14 but there are hundreds of different ethnic groups 09:18 there that live in India. 09:20 So we are trying to analyze and understand which groups 09:26 tend to handle better - which groups tend to hand worse, 09:29 but some of those groups, 70% of them, don't handle 09:33 milk well. 09:34 So they have a lactose intolerance. 09:36 The English came and encouraged the drinking of milk 09:40 and many health problems related to this. 09:43 And you know, when we're talking about dairy, 09:45 I want you to understand that we're talking about 09:47 nonfat milk, buttermilk, cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, 09:55 ice cream, kefir, butter, whey, all these things fall 10:01 under that umbrella of what we are talking about today. 10:06 And you know, the same situation happened in Mexico, 10:09 in Latin America - there came some terrorists across the ocean 10:14 on some boats and from Spain to the Americas and they brought 10:20 foods that were not there. 10:22 See, in the continent of America there were no cows; 10:28 there were no horses; there were no chickens; 10:31 there were no pigs there, and they brought these things. 10:35 And the people living there were not exposed 10:40 to milk products for thousands of years. 10:43 And as these products arrived, this is something modern, 10:48 and especially the people that have more native blood 10:53 tend to have more problems with these products 10:57 because their system has not been exposed to them. 11:01 So we find a huge amount of milk intolerance, 11:04 yet is the staple of many people to use them. 11:08 That's right, and we're not even designed for it 11:11 or it wasn't even designed for humans - it was designed 11:14 for baby cows, so it's not surprising. 11:16 I guess we've built up a bit of a tolerance in the developed 11:20 countries but some have, some haven't. 11:22 But really, it's not even good for people 11:26 who can tolerate it. 11:27 That's right because it's not only the protein per se, 11:31 but also the other nutrients that are in excess 11:35 such as cholesterol and so forth. 11:39 And we're talking about a business that is in the 11:44 billions of dollars. Yes. 11:46 So you know, when there's this type of commercial interest, 11:50 many times what they want is to sell their product 11:54 and they may modify things and so forth. 11:58 And it's interesting you know, I travel to many countries, 12:01 many, many countries - pretty much to all the continents 12:04 on this planet, and I can tell you; for example, in India 12:09 and in Africa especially, African-origin people 12:15 have a BIG intolerance to milk products. 12:18 I went there to communities where there is no milk, 12:21 yet, when you analyze those people's bones, 12:25 their bones are strong, the children grow adequately; 12:29 they are able to do well in school and so forth. 12:34 And don't say, "Well doctor, don't you know 12:36 people are dying of hunger?" 12:37 No, they're not dying of hunger, I saw with my own eyes. 12:40 Yes, there are families, you know, where there's alcoholism 12:43 and these types of issues and they may suffer 12:45 but the average person there is eating enough 12:49 and what they eat is a whole foods, plant-based diet. 12:54 That seems to be a recurring theme. 12:56 Now this is a very interesting point and I think 12:59 it's probably the most important thing that people 13:01 consider because we hear a lot about calcium and the need for 13:04 more calcium and so on, and of course, cow's milk 13:08 is the highest source of calcium in the diet, 13:11 so how do you explain that people who are not using any, 13:17 has got strong bones? That's right! 13:19 And how people who use a lot, do not - how does that work? 13:24 In fact, there is a fascinating relationship. 13:26 We can see in a published study, on the screen 13:30 the comparison between those countries 13:34 that drink the most calcium, yet they have the highest 13:41 rates of hip fracture which is an indicator of osteoporosis. 13:46 If you want to picture Australia is somewhere between 13:49 The United Kingdom and New Zealand, that's where 13:53 we find Australia which is very high! 13:59 How come they're eating humongous amounts 14:03 of calcium - yet they have such high rates of osteoporosis? 14:09 You've asked the question, now I want you to answer it. 14:11 Let me share with you how this works. 14:14 Yes because usually that calcium 14:19 comes from dairy-related products. 14:23 So you're taking the calcium, yes, but you're also taking 14:28 huge amounts of animal protein which, unfortunately, 14:34 tends to be an acid-forming protein. 14:40 So that excess amount of protein published research over 14:45 and over has shown that when you take that high amount of 14:49 protein together with the calcium, instead of 14:51 putting that calcium in your bones, you actually 14:55 have the negative effect and you actually take away 14:59 some of the calcium from your bones and throw it away. 15:03 In fact, you can measure this in the laboratory. 15:06 You give more animal products and I'll show you that in 15:09 your urine the calcium is being dropped out. 15:13 Not only that, it's a problem because the kidneys 15:17 - the calcium needs to pass through the kidneys 15:20 and you can form kidney stones. 15:22 I was just reading recently from a residency book of 15:26 nephrology, you know the specialist on the kidneys, 15:28 literally it says there in that book - "People that are 15:33 recurrent calcium stone formers should consider becoming 15:42 vegetarians - that's what it says there. 15:44 The specialist book on nephrology! 15:48 Because we know that relationship and not only 15:51 milk will do this, also meat, chicken and animal products 15:58 they are very acidic and that will have that 16:02 negative effect on your bones. 16:04 So if you want to have strong bones, the best things 16:07 you can do is to remove yourself as far away from milk. 16:12 Now, the problem is that the marketing industry 16:16 has done a fabulous job at brainwashing us. Yes. 16:20 And when you ask somebody, "Where does calcium come from?" 16:25 You're going to say, "Milk." 16:26 You're just programmed to say that because of marketing. 16:30 You think about - oh raising a child without milk, 16:34 oh, that's child abuse, you may say! Yes. 16:37 But you know, when you think about it, 16:38 where does the cow get its calcium? 16:40 That's right! Green leafies! 16:42 Exactly! See, calcium is in the ground, so I don't see cows 16:49 eating dirt and things; so yes, the plant absorbs 16:56 the calcium through the roots, gets in the plant 16:58 and that's when you eat it. 17:00 You can do exactly the same thing as the cow is doing, 17:04 and get that from there. 17:05 I have three daughters - 17:07 If we can put a man on the moon, we can probably 17:09 work out how to get our calcium from the same way a cow does. 17:13 I have three daughters, the three of them grew with, 17:17 of course, breast milk and after that not a single drink of milk. 17:22 They are strong, they are their normal weight, 17:25 their normal height and they do fantastically well in school. 17:30 And you know, there's research on this - if you go to 17:33 the scientific literature, there are 57 published 17:39 studies that I could identify, there may be a little bit more 17:41 if you look forward, but the ones I identified, 17:44 there were 57 and I started counting, 57% of those 17:48 57 studies showed that there is no significant benefit 17:54 of drinking dairy and your bones. Yes. 17:58 Twenty-nine percent said there's a little bit favorable 18:04 effect and if you analyze those 29 studies, 6 of them 18:13 were sponsored by the milk industry. 18:18 So you could say it has a little bit of a marketing effect 18:23 compared to 14% of those studies they show that it was 18:28 an adverse effect in your bones. 18:31 Interesting, now you're talking about the plant-based diet 18:34 being good for our bones and the animal-based foods being 18:38 the ones that deplete the calcium. 18:41 I was looking on the "World Health Organization" website 18:44 recently and the healthy diet and the fact sheet 18:47 for a healthy diet and it lists fruits, vegetables, 18:52 legumes or beans, nuts and, what was the other one? 18:57 And grains. And grains, whole 18:59 unprocessed grains. That's right. 19:01 There's no mention of milk. 19:03 There's no mention of any of the 19:05 meats or even eggs. That's right! 19:06 And a healthy diet, according to the "World Health 19:09 Organization," comprises of all those plant foods. 19:12 That's factsheet #394, if you want to check it out. 19:17 Fact sheet 394 on the "World Health Organization" website. 19:21 So it really bears out what you're saying and, of course, 19:25 the original diet that the Creator gave us 19:27 is what you've been talking about - it was all plant foods. 19:30 And you know, there is right now a big 19:33 attack on soy products. Yes. 19:36 Part of this is the milk industry running rumors 19:39 and so forth; part of it is uninformed people that call 19:45 themselves "experts" while they're not and running 19:48 all these rumors against soy that are not justified. 19:53 Let me just deal with a few of the arguments 19:56 and what is the reality of the situation. 19:58 Some people say that because of the substances found in 20:04 soy, you actually have an antinutrient effect. 20:08 In other words, you actually 20:10 lose nutrients when you are eating soy. 20:14 The reality is that when you cook and process soy products 20:20 with cooking and fermentation, these antinutrients substances 20:27 get eliminated. 20:28 Oh, well you don't eat them raw, I mean you wouldn't 20:31 eat it raw in any way, you just wouldn't. 20:33 You would never eat soy raw, exactly! 20:36 So that's why those substances theoretically that 20:40 could harm you, they're not present as you process 20:44 which is the way that we usually eat our soy. 20:47 Nobody eats raw soybeans that I'm aware of. 20:50 That's very misleading isn't it? 20:52 So be careful with that lie. 20:54 Two, some people say, "It has phytochemicals 20:58 which have an effect and could actually increase cancers 21:04 theoretically." 21:05 That is not what we found when we analyze groups that have 21:10 high levels of soy. 21:13 See, I travel to many countries in Asia and the interesting 21:17 thing is that actually in Asia, you find the most 21:21 healthy people on planet earth. 21:23 It is not the Mediterranean - in the Mediterranean you still 21:27 have a lot of heart disease, a lot of strokes, a lot of 21:30 diabetes - rates are a little bit lower than the Western 21:33 world, but they are still quite present and very common, 21:37 and number one causes of death. 21:39 Yet when you travel to rural Asia where people have been 21:45 eating high levels of soy for long periods of time, 21:50 you find very low rates of things like breast cancer 21:55 and prostate cancer and so forth, when you analyze the 22:00 epidemiology of countries like Japan and you compare them 22:04 like the U.K. or Australia and so forth. 22:08 So it actually has an anticancer effect, the consumption 22:13 of the soy products. 22:14 So that's just the very opposite of what is being alleged. 22:17 That's right! It has an anticancer effect. 22:20 Also some people say that it actually increases heart 22:26 disease - again through theoretical models, 22:30 you may think that, but that's not what we found. 22:34 When you compare heart attack rates with countries like 22:38 Thailand and Japan and so forth against Australia for example, 22:45 the rates are phenomenally different. 22:48 People have less heart disease there, yet they consume 22:53 much more soy products. Yes. 22:55 And also the sex hormones - some people I've seen in my 23:00 clinical consultation, they come and they're afraid 23:03 that they're not going to want to give soy milk 23:07 to their boys because they may become effeminate and so forth. 23:12 I can tell you that does not happen in the clinical practice 23:18 when you see and start to follow-up that. 23:22 See, the beneficial effects of soy actually are very 23:28 markedly seen in ladies that are passing through their menopause. 23:35 When they're passing through their menopause, when you 23:37 compare Australians, U. K., America against those people 23:43 in rural Asia where they have high levels of soy, 23:47 the amount of menopause-related problems such as the famous 23:53 hot flashes - are almost unknown there. 23:56 Some of them don't even have a term for that, do they? 23:59 That's right! It's just something that happens. 24:02 So that's why even some phytoestrogens may be actually 24:07 beneficial to take for those ladies going through that 24:12 process of the change of life. 24:15 And one worrisome thing about milk is that it increases 24:21 something that is called, "the insulin growth factor" 24:26 or also known as IGF-1, and high protein foods - milk, meat, 24:34 and chicken increase this. 24:36 See, this factor makes things grow fast! 24:40 So, for example, you have tumor cells - every single one of us 24:45 generates tumor cells every day, our immune system 24:49 takes care of them, but if you have onboard too much 24:53 of that IFG, you can actually encourage the growth of 24:59 those cancer cells which is negative. 25:03 Now soy in excess could have this negative effect, 25:09 just be temperate, don't drink the whole gallon of soymilk. 25:13 If you drink just a couple of cups of soymilk, 25:17 you are perfectly fine. 25:20 Excess theoretically could be problematic, so just use 25:24 temperance and use legumes as rotation, you know 25:27 not only milk but there are many other legumes 25:31 you can take advantage of that. 25:34 So that idea that you need strong bones and only milk 25:40 can give it to you, that is actually not correct. 25:42 It's not the reality, it's not what happening. 25:44 I mean, we saw that image there and as the calcium increased, 25:50 so did the hip fracture rate, so it's not just an isolated 25:54 study - this is whole populations that's being 25:57 demonstrated throughout whole populations. 25:59 But that is not valid to say that milk is going to do it. 26:03 And many people don't realize what they are drinking! 26:06 For example, the international standards including here 26:11 in Australia allow a certain number of white blood cells. 26:16 Do you know what white blood cells are? Of pus! 26:19 When you are drinking milk, 26:22 there is pus inside of that milk. 26:27 It has a certain limit that it should have (Oh that's nice!) 26:31 but it is allowed to have that. Ohh. 26:34 I've seen many kids in the clinical practice, they have 26:38 repeated infections of the ear and sinus and so forth; 26:44 we take them off dairy. 26:46 Those things disappear! 26:48 And this is published in pediatric journals, 26:50 I'm not making this up, because milk is rich also 26:54 in certain bacteria also. 26:57 So why expose yourself to these 27:02 kind of issues if you can avoid it. 27:06 And also the terminology is a little bit deceptive. 27:08 "Whole milk," are you aware, is 49% fat, I mean it's 27:13 tremendously high. 27:15 In fact, low fat milk still is pretty high, it's 21% fat 27:20 if you were to remove all the water that is in it. 27:23 So that is actually not the best of the ideas. 27:28 I would encourage you, go to the internet, 27:30 find substitutes and try them out. 27:33 You will enjoy them, I guarantee you. 27:35 Well thank you for that and I'm sure that some of our 27:39 listeners would have found some of 27:41 what you're saying a little bit of a big surprise. 27:43 A little bit of a big surprise, whichever way it goes. 27:46 So I hope that you will be able to take that onboard 27:50 and begin to move towards the plant sources. 27:53 So you have certainly given us some food for thought today, 27:57 and I pray that God will bless the efforts of 28:00 our viewers and our listeners. 28:02 And if you'd like to watch our programs on demand, 28:05 just go to our website that's: 3abnaustralia.org.au 28:09 click on the watch button and 28:10 you can see these programs again. 28:12 God bless you. |
Revised 2019-10-29