Participants: Margot Marshall (Host), Dr. Eddie Ramirez
Series Code: HL
Program Code: HL000022A
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00:14 Welcome to "Healthy Living!"
00:16 I'm your host Margot Marshall. 00:18 I once asked a group why it's important to know sources 00:22 of omega-3 other than fish. 00:25 One gentleman responded, "I might not catch any fish," 00:29 and another said, "I don't like fish." 00:31 The answer I was actually looking for was - there aren't 00:35 enough fish to supply omega-3 for 7 billion people. 00:39 Today, we're going to discuss the downside 00:42 of sourcing omega-3 from fish. 01:21 Omega-3 is an essential fatty acid, our bodies can't make it. 01:27 My guest today is Dr. Eddie Ramirez. 01:29 Welcome Eddie. Thank you! 01:31 First of all, why do we need omega-3? 01:35 As the name says, this is an essential oil. 01:40 In other words, you need to have it in your diet 01:44 for the body functions to work properly. 01:47 Your brain depends on it, and many of your 01:49 cells depend on it. 01:51 There are some substances that omega-3 helps to remove, 01:55 and there are many studies that show the benefits of omega-3 02:00 such as helping avoid atherosclerosis such as help 02:06 decrease arrhythmias; such as reduce the stickiness of 02:14 your platelets that could end up giving you a serious problem 02:19 such as stroke or a heart attack and also there are many 02:23 autoimmune diseases that respond very well with omega-3. 02:29 That's a bunch of very good reasons to make sure 02:32 that we have a good source of it and a good supply of it, 02:36 your brain, your heart and autoimmune, 02:40 it doesn't leave much, does it? 02:42 And it's interesting how we have been conditioned 02:45 to think in a certain way. 02:47 Whenever somebody hears the word, "omega-3, what 02:53 do they automatically think? 02:54 Always fish - ask any group and get a chorus of fish. 02:59 And it seems to be the only thing that people really know. 03:02 That's right! And we don't realize that there are many 03:06 other healthy sources - we will see those in a minute, 03:10 of these omega-3 that is accessible, that is 03:16 cost-effective and that it has those beneficial effects 03:21 to your health. 03:22 And you know, I've been involved in lots of research 03:26 projects - just last year I submitted for publication 03:29 31 studies. Thirty one! 03:30 Thirty one! Thirty one in one year! 03:32 Including one on fish! Okay. 03:36 And it was a very well-designed study - we're talking about 03:39 5,600 people in this study, so it's a nice big sample. 03:47 There were people from all over the world including many 03:51 from New Zealand and Australia. 03:54 Oh okay, even Australia is in your study! That's right! 03:57 And we were also taking into account different religions, 04:05 different ages - the studies were nice and diverse. 04:09 The way people were cooking their fish was varied. 04:13 Some of them like it raw, some of them like it cooked, 04:15 and so forth. 04:17 And we can see that study on the screen. 04:20 This study was presented in a very important meeting 04:25 of pharmacological-related things. 04:29 And the reason why they were interested is because 04:31 this was related to toxins. 04:33 And we found in this study how eating fish had a very 04:41 negative effect on mental health which is interesting. 04:45 Well that's interesting because it's meant - the omega-3 04:48 in fish is you take it so that you can 04:50 improve your brain health. That's right! 04:52 But we actually found the opposite with our data. 04:56 I did not manipulate my data or anything - this is what 05:02 our raw data is showing. 05:05 You could predict actually the level 05:08 of depression but by their intake. 05:11 And see, this is the point, in the past, fish was an 05:16 excellent food, in fact, even Jesus ate fish if you go 05:21 and look in the Bible. 05:24 It was actually not any fish, there were certain rules - 05:27 what type of fish that He was eating which was the fish 05:31 with scales and fins, you know, they have to have 05:35 both at the same time. 05:37 So the problem of today's society is that we have 05:44 polluted our oceans, our rivers. 05:48 There was an expert on pollution that we were talking with 05:54 a few years ago and he was telling us that in the past 05:59 you could actually find mercury-free fish in the rural 06:05 waters of Canada and in the oceans near Alaska, 06:11 but he told us - you know now, today, even that fish 06:16 has been polluted with the mercury. 06:21 And we still actually don't understand the exact 06:25 mechanism on how that is happening. 06:27 We are theorizing that it may be related to rains and so forth. 06:32 As our world environment is getting so loaded with 06:37 toxins, even some of them are going via the rain and so forth. 06:44 And what happened is that these toxins start to accumulate, 06:51 and see - with mercury this is something serious. Oh yes. 06:55 Because things get accumulated and especially in your nervous 07:01 system and mercury is something extremely toxic. 07:06 So we theorize that the mechanism why we are seeing 07:11 more depression among those fish-eaters has to do with the 07:16 fact that you may be eating small amounts of that mercury 07:20 but as you continue doing that, that mercury accumulates 07:24 in your system and ends up affecting your mental health. 07:29 In fact, there's plenty of research that shows 07:32 that when you get fish, any fish, every fish has mercury 07:41 to a certain level. 07:42 I'm coauthoring a book called, "Rethink Food," together with 07:47 Michael Greger - if you want to find some good information 07:50 detailed about journals where this information comes from, 07:54 I would invite you to search "fish and Michael Greger," 07:58 and you will find some good sources there to inform you 08:02 of real causes of the problem. 08:04 You do medical practice, you do research, 08:07 you write books and you're doing even more than that! 08:10 I just don't know how you ever fit it all in, but we are very 08:13 privileged to actually have you talking to us about this, 08:16 and I'm very pleased that we can actually understand 08:19 because fish is actually promoted because of omega-3, 08:23 but it always does come with a warning: 08:25 "No more than twice a week," and that's a concern in itself, 08:28 and it should be a bit of a red light 08:30 to people, shouldn't it? That's right! 08:31 And pregnant women should not have it. 08:33 That's why there are some international guidelines 08:36 that show that - that pregnant women, children, small children. 08:40 So if it affects them, it will also 08:43 affect you. It would have to, yes. 08:46 And there is something in ecology that is called, 08:51 "biomagnification." 08:54 Biomagnification is how we describe the phenomena of 08:59 how toxins increase as they move up on the food chain. Right. 09:07 Not actually too far from where I live in northern California, 09:12 they had a study in which they documented this biomagnification 09:18 and we're going to see that study on the screen. 09:21 In this study, they were studying a toxin called "DDD." 09:30 It's something very similar to DDT. 09:32 If you notice, in the lake water, there was only 09:35 .02 parts per million. Okay. 09:38 It is so small, that amount, that any international 09:44 body will tell you, "That's acceptable, you can 09:46 drink that water." 09:47 But the microscopic vegetables that live in the plant 09:52 that are called "phytoplankton," those have 5 parts per million. 09:56 This is quite a bit jump actually, isn't it? 09:58 That's right! From.02 to 5, still that 5 is 10:04 parts per million, so still is very small 10:08 within acceptable range. 10:10 But the worrisome part was those vegetarian fish that 10:16 ate those microscopic vegetables - those had between 10:20 40 and 300 and then you jump to the carnivorous fish 10:26 which are the ones eating those vegetarian fishes 10:30 which have up to 2,500 parts per million. 10:36 Tremendous levels of this DDD. 10:41 Now I just need you to use your imagination and imagine 10:45 now the humans that eat those carnivorous fish 10:48 that are going to have even higher levels. 10:52 That's why this is something serious because - 10:54 Have they ever done a test to see how many 10:57 parts per million humans have? 10:59 Not on the DDD. Not on that, interesting! 11:02 That would be very interesting to know, but this is 11:06 something serious because these toxins have serious effects - 11:11 such as affecting the growth of a baby. 11:15 If you expose a baby to many of these toxins, 11:19 you could actually end up with something serious such as 11:22 malformation in the baby. 11:25 So that's why I would encourage every pregnant woman 11:29 especially to stay as far as possible away from fish 11:33 as you can because those toxins are there and as you get 11:40 exposed to that, many times this accumulates in your body 11:44 and can have some negative consequences. 11:46 So each time you take it in, take in any mercury 11:51 in any form, does it ever leave your body 11:53 or does it just keep accumulating? 11:55 You need special interventions 11:58 to help them get out of the body. 12:01 So, no, it just keeps on accumulating. 12:03 The body does release a little bit of it, but most of it 12:07 can continue to accumulate in your body. 12:10 Now omega-3 has been so well researched that we know 12:18 very well that it helps for many things. 12:21 There is no question about that, but one of the issues 12:26 that has come out is the reality of the situation, 12:30 that omega-3 oil is very contaminated 12:35 with all these toxins. 12:37 See, it's not just the mercury, there are PCBs that we will 12:41 mention that briefly in a minute and many other 12:45 toxins that get accumulated when you concentrate 12:49 the fish oil. 12:50 So the average fish oil that you buy in the market 12:54 is loaded with these toxins. 12:58 So it's not just mercury we're talking about, but by the time 13:00 you eat it, it's fish oil, it's worse. 13:03 It is worse because it's concentrated, so things that 13:07 may be in some moderate levels in the fish, now they are 13:12 concentrated in the fish oil. 13:14 So you cannot patent omega-3 per se because it's just 13:21 a nutrient, you know. 13:22 So a pharmaceutical company got the bright idea, they said, 13:27 "Why don't we try to separate the toxins from the fish oil 13:35 and then we can patent it, and then we can sell it for 13:39 lowering cholesterol or many other medical conditions." 13:43 So they went ahead and did that and that actually 13:48 patented version of omega-3 oil is actually available 13:51 here also in Australia, it's available around the world. 13:54 But see, when the pharmaceutical representative came to us 13:58 to talk about it, we asked him, "Okay you're saying that you're 14:03 removing toxins, how much toxins are you actually removing?" 14:06 And it was one of those questions that the 14:08 pharmaceutical agent couldn't answer to us and they said, 14:12 "Well, you know, I actually don't know this answer, 14:16 why don't you write directly to the company 14:19 and they'll give you the answers." 14:21 So we went ahead and did a letter and wrote them, 14:23 and they actually answered us, and you know what they said? 14:26 They said, "You know, it is actually impossible to remove 14:31 all the toxins from the omega-3 oil, there are 14:36 still some toxins present but it is less than the average 14:41 fish oil." 14:42 So as you can see, this is a reality and we're not 14:48 making these stories just to make you afraid. 14:50 We're just showing you the facts. 14:52 We need to know, I mean we really do need to 14:54 have that information. 14:56 And if people still want to eat it or drink it, 14:59 they can do it but at least we should know. 15:01 It wouldn't be honest for me, having this 15:05 knowledge and not tell you. 15:07 See I travel very much, just recently I was in Iceland 15:12 enjoying the beautiful hot springs there, 15:15 they're fantastic - if you ever have a chance, go there! 15:17 They are absolutely fabulous; 15:19 those hot springs there in Iceland. 15:21 And near Iceland, there was a fascinating 15:26 research that was done. 15:28 There are some islands that are north of the U.K. 15:32 that are called "The Faroe Islands," and scientists there 15:37 started to realize that the IQ of the children living in those 15:43 islands was starting to decrease and they were very puzzled, 15:47 you know, why are these children's IQ decreasing. 15:51 The Faroe Islands today is a prosperous country 15:54 just like Australia, you know, they try to keep their 15:58 oceans clean and so forth. 16:01 It's not like a developing country that you go and you 16:04 see all the pollutants that have been thrown into the ocean, 16:08 and so forth - they are careful to maintain their oceans clean 16:11 and so forth. 16:13 So scientists started to test the food that these people 16:18 were eating because they thought maybe this is related 16:21 to something they are eating. 16:22 And sure enough, they realized that their intake 16:27 especially of mercury but other toxins were very high 16:32 due to their high consumption of food products. 16:37 Fish products. Fish products, that's right. 16:40 So fish and also they eat whale there - one of the few 16:45 places where they kill whales. 16:47 They have not signed that agreement that 16:48 they should not kill whales. 16:49 But anyhow, they started to have that link 16:54 and realized that the problem lies in that. 16:58 As they were eating these sea products, that was affecting 17:03 their children. 17:04 There is a very good documentary 17:06 if you are interested in this. 17:07 So their IQ was actually noticeably down to the point 17:10 where they thought, "We have to work out what this is." 17:13 It was enough to really get attention. 17:15 This was a public health crisis. 17:18 Do have sort of a figure on that? 17:20 So what I recommend to you is to view the documentary, 17:26 10 to 15 points down than the normal, it was down. 17:31 So you can watch the documentary if you Goggle the words 17:36 "Frontline" which is nonprofit government organization in 17:41 America and "Faroe Islands and mercury," Google those 3 words, 17:45 "Frontline, Faroe Islands and mercury," 17:48 you will see the details of the study. 17:51 And Faroe Island is spelled F A R O E? That's right. 17:54 Faroe, yes. 17:56 That's the way that you'd spell it. 17:57 So this is a big problem - why expose your children 18:04 to these types of problems? 18:06 And also, what you were mentioning in the beginning, 18:09 is a very valid point. 18:11 See, we are depleting our fish stocks around the world. 18:19 As the methods of fishing have improved, we are creating 18:24 an ecological disaster. 18:27 See when you go to places like Africa and you see the people 18:32 there with a little boat and a little net catching fish, 18:37 those people are never going to cause a global crisis. Right. 18:41 But when you have this industrial-sized boat in which 18:45 they throw these huge nets and pick up absolutely everything 18:50 that is in their midst, this starts to have a huge 18:55 negative effect in the reserves of fish in the world. 19:02 In fact, there was a big crisis some years ago in Canada 19:07 in which they over-fished and people had to change 19:12 the location where they were living - there was just 19:14 not enough fish to keep up and be able to provide 19:20 for the fishermen and so forth. 19:23 And also, today in many places, they are raising fish 19:28 in an artificial fashion in which they have them in 19:33 one enclosed area and the fish starts to grow and they 19:38 feed them and so forth. 19:39 Well studies show that that is actually worse for the 19:42 environment than the fish that are running around wild. 19:46 How does that work? The reason why is because 19:48 in order to feed those fish, you need to fish other fish! Oh. 19:54 So not because you're eating farmed salmon and these 19:57 type of foods, you are making a huge impact at the level 20:02 of the ecology when you choose to use that. 20:05 Plus, because those animals are living so close together, 20:10 their risk of disease increases, so they have to throw 20:14 antibiotics and different things and you are being 20:18 exposed to these things. 20:19 There's a fabulous documentary, if you want to see the details - 20:25 That's incredible, we know they feed antibiotics to land animals 20:28 but feeding them to fish is like, oh what else? 20:31 So the name of the documentary is called, "End of the Line." 20:36 I would highly encourage you if you are interested in this topic 20:39 showing the details of this over-fishing around the world, 20:44 and the kind of global crisis that we're facing. 20:47 And "Time Magazine" puts it among the lists - the group of 20:53 creatures that is the most endangered of being extinguished 20:58 are fish in general - that's the number one. 21:01 And when you are doing these choices in your food, 21:04 to a certain level, you actually have some responsibility 21:08 with this crisis. 21:10 Well I think you have fairly well convinced us that 21:12 fish is really something to be very concerned about. 21:16 Omega-3 is something to be very concerned about too, 21:18 we must have it and we must have it in our diet 21:21 because our bodies don't make it. 21:22 So what are we going to do? 21:24 Where will we find a good source of omega-3? 21:26 So we have good sources of omega-3 in the vegetable source, 21:31 so let's see the graphic that we have on the screen 21:35 about the sources of plant-based omega-3. 21:40 If you notice, flaxseed or linseed - that's where you 21:45 actually get the name "omega-3" has tremendous levels 21:49 of omega-3, so does chia, walnuts, wheat germ, 21:54 and even spinach and almonds have certain levels of omega-3. 22:00 That's quite a spread really, isn't it? 22:02 It's not just one or two things, although some are obviously 22:05 richer sources, but the greens while they are not a 22:10 high source, were meant to be having lots of them. 22:13 That's right and green soybeans also - when it's mature, 22:17 it doesn't have it but when it's green, you have that omega-3. 22:21 So what I encourage my patients is that you need to 22:25 make sure, especially if you're on a plant-based diet, 22:28 you need to make sure that you are supplying enough 22:34 omega-3 in your diet. 22:36 So purposely, you need to add 22:38 these foods in your daily intake. 22:41 So make sure that you are eating that flaxseed. 22:44 You need to grind it - you are not a cow so that 22:47 you can just eat it whole, it won't give you any benefit. 22:51 You need to grind it and you can add it on your cereal 22:55 in the morning; to your food that you're cooking; 22:59 to your salads and as you notice, many nuts are also 23:04 very rich in these omega-3s. 23:07 So the nuts again were the walnuts and I think did you say 23:12 almonds had some? Yes, almonds have some, 23:13 not so much but the almonds tend to be more of a 23:17 rich type of food. 23:18 And the chia and so that's lovely - you can do 23:21 some lovely things with chia, and desserts with that. 23:24 And don't just eat just one, try to use rotation. Yes! 23:29 And the second food, chia - actually there's a state in 23:33 Mexico named after chia. 23:35 It's called, "Chiapas." Okay. 23:38 That's how important that state is. 23:42 And then we have another graphic that clearly shows 23:49 another disadvantage that you 23:52 have when you are eating fish oil. 23:58 The next graphic - what we are seeing in the vertical axis 24:02 is cholesterol and we're comparing the different levels 24:06 of cholesterol among fish oil made out of different fish 24:11 and how much cholesterol we would eat if we were to 24:16 partake of 100 grams of beef. 24:20 So you can see that eating a T- bone steak will actually 24:25 give you about 79 milligrams of cholesterol. 24:30 Now compare that to herring oil - much more higher. 24:34 Salmon oil, sardine oil, cod liver oil. 24:38 Eddie, we're just talking about 3 teaspoons of the oils, 24:41 not a large quantity like the steak. 24:44 Just that is 15 grams, it's only 3 teaspoons - 24:47 So very concentrated! - and it's got more cholesterol 24:49 than a T-bone steak - that's huge! 24:52 So yes, these are the implications of partaking 24:57 of this fish oil. 24:59 So especially people that have heart issues and so forth, 25:04 this wouldn't be the best advice for them to eat these 25:09 types of foods in order to provide that omega-3. 25:13 That's an understatement, not the best advice - I mean 25:15 it's really a big concern, really a big concern. 25:18 And, you know, there was a fabulous study that 25:21 showed that some pesticides are actually found in the 25:27 tissues of breast cancer patients. 25:31 And, you know, breast cancer is not a rare cancer 25:34 in Australia - it's a big killer and unfortunately something 25:39 very common. 25:41 So we still actually don't understand the mechanics 25:43 and so forth but we theorize that the exposure of toxins 25:48 via fish consumption may play an important role in 25:53 that increase of breast cancer. 25:57 That's really such an awful thing to hear - I mean, 26:00 it is, it's a tragic thing when people get that. 26:04 And also, not only that, there is also cancer-related 26:10 to the fish - see, we've been studying this for the last 26:15 50 years, there was a published paper that came out 26:18 and they compared in the waters of Michigan the change in the 26:24 health of fish in a 50-year range. 26:28 And what they found, they were studying a particular fish 26:30 there called "the bullhead," it's a very common fish there. 26:34 They found that compared to 50 years ago, now 30% 26:41 of the bullhead that they capture in that lake of Michigan 26:48 actually has liver cancer. Oh. 26:51 And we theorize that this could possibly come due to the 26:57 exposure of those toxins that are in his flesh - they end up 27:03 affecting the health and the fish also end up developing 27:08 this type of problem. 27:09 You've listed a lot of things there - a lot of concerns 27:13 about sourcing omega-3 from fish oil or just eating fish, 27:17 let's just summarize those. 27:18 First of all, it's high in mercury. That's right! 27:21 What else did you say? And we also have 27:24 exposure to DDD; you also have exposure to toxins 27:31 that affect the development of a baby or a pregnant woman. 27:36 It also can affect negatively the IQ of children. 27:41 It is a product high in cholesterol. 27:44 It is a product, the fish oil especially that is very high 27:48 in toxins and we know from studies that PCBs that come 27:53 specifically from fish decrease and damage the sperm in males. 27:58 All of those big concerns - good reasons to look at the plant 28:02 sources that the good Lord placed in a good number of 28:04 things in nature and I think that's a really good way to go. 28:09 Look, some of the things in today's presentation 28:12 might have surprised you but we trust that they'll 28:15 benefit you. 28:16 And if you'd like to watch our programs on-demand, 28:19 just go to our website that's at 3abnaustralia.org.au 28:24 click on the watch button and we look forward to 28:27 seeing you next time. 28:28 Thank you for joining us! |
Revised 2019-11-05