Heaven's Point of View

Romans 1, Homosexuality, Part 2

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Tom Shepherd


Series Code: HPOV

Program Code: HPOV000040A

00:15 Hello I'm Shelley Quinn and this is Dr. Tom Sheperd
00:18 and we welcome you to Heaven's Point of View.
00:21 This series is on Love, Marriage, Sex, and Divorce
00:25 and this happens to be a program that you teach
00:29 as Professor of New Testament Interpretation
00:32 at Andrews University Seminary and we're so thankful
00:37 that you have brought this Program to us.
00:39 Glad to be here.
00:40 Now, last time we started on a rather interesting study,
00:46 we were looking at Romans chapter 1
00:48 and we were beginning to discuss the idea of homosexuality,
00:55 the practice of homosexuality.
00:57 I'm just going to turn this over to you
01:00 and let you kind of catch us up.
01:02 Okay, so, we looked at the outline of Paul's argument
01:07 from Romans 1 through 3 in particular
01:09 and more specifically in chapter 1
01:11 as we looked at what he had to say about the Gentiles
01:15 and their being lost,
01:17 we saw that he described three revelations,
01:19 he mentions the revelation of
01:23 God's righteousness in the gospel,
01:24 he mentions the revelation of God's wrath against sin,
01:28 and he mentions the revelation of God's power in creation,
01:31 he presents those in the reverse order from which they happened.
01:34 The first was Creation, the second was Wrath
01:37 and then the last to come was the gospel,
01:40 so, he puts them in that reverse order
01:42 because the theme of his book is the last one
01:45 which is the revelation of the righteousness of God.
01:49 But he had to indicate and show that people were in need
01:53 of God's help and so he lays out this description
01:58 of the revelation of Creation, revelation of Wrath,
02:02 and revelation of God's Righteousness.
02:05 We can say that
02:07 at the heart of this is God's primal revelation
02:10 which is his power and deity revealed through nature,
02:13 this revelation calls on us as creatures
02:17 to honor and praise the Creator,
02:20 but the human response to this beginning with Adam and Eve
02:25 and going on from there was rejection.
02:27 Instead of worshipping the Creator,
02:29 humans have worshipped idols.
02:32 And last... please give us the idea again,
02:36 the definition of wrath, that this is a reaction of God.
02:41 Yes, it's a reaction of God to sin and evil,
02:45 it's His holy hatred of sin,
02:47 it's not something that's not good about His nature,
02:52 but it is not...
02:53 it's also something that doesn't go on forever
02:56 because it's only a reaction, once sin is done, it disappears.
02:59 God's righteousness, His character,
03:02 His essence of love is permanent,
03:04 it is forever. - Yes.
03:06 His wrath is "holy anger against sin"
03:10 when the sin is gone, that wrath is gone.
03:14 Tom: Yeah. Shelley: Okay.
03:15 So, if we go back to talk about the primal revelation,
03:18 the very first revelation,
03:20 the one that is the most central one,
03:23 important... or, what shall we say?
03:25 Foundational,
03:26 it's God's revelation of who He is in nature.
03:29 His power and His deity.
03:31 Now, in response to that, there's what we could call,
03:34 "the primal sin," the original sin against God
03:38 and that is actually idolatry.
03:40 So, people sometimes get the idea that...
03:45 "Well, we're not idolaters anymore,"
03:47 we'll have more to say about that as we go on.
03:52 His wrath is a reaction against what is evil,
03:56 He hands those over to...
03:59 who sin... to be controlled by their passions.
04:03 We kind of talked... we talked about that as well,
04:05 why in the world would God hand somebody over
04:08 to be controlled by passions?
04:10 It is a Biblical sense of justice
04:14 that the measure you use
04:15 is the measure that is used again on you.
04:17 "So, you want to be a rebel and worship these idols,
04:21 fine, I'll hand you over to the idols,
04:23 see where that gets you. "
04:24 Yeah and what it gets you is a continually downward spiral
04:30 and to more and more trouble,
04:31 now, when you get down there, sometimes what happens is
04:34 you say, "Oh, I need help. "
04:37 Right.
04:39 And then you turn back to the Creator for help.
04:41 Amen, so... but now where does homosexuality fit into this?
04:46 Okay, it's described so we'd better open our Bibles
04:47 to Romans chapter 1
04:49 because it's described in the second set of exchanges
04:52 that we already mentioned that Paul refers to
04:55 as the expression of God's wrath,
04:57 so, we said last time
04:59 that each time when Paul describes human sinfulness,
05:03 he then says, "God hands them over,"
05:05 and he says, "God hands them over. "
05:07 But it's something that they've done first
05:09 before God hands them over.
05:10 Yeah, and then he responds
05:12 and his response is "to hand them over,"
05:13 we found that each time there's this kind of experience
05:16 so, it is under the second set that we find,
05:20 so what we have to do is read verses 25 to 27.
05:28 Okay, you'd want me to start with 24?
05:31 Yeah, I think so, you'd better start with 24.
05:34 Shelley: Okay. Tom: Exactly.
05:35 "Therefore, God also gave them up to uncleanness
05:38 in the lusts of their hearts
05:39 to dishonor their bodies among themselves
05:42 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie,
05:45 and worshiped and served the creature
05:47 rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen.
05:51 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions.
05:55 For even their women exchanged the natural use
05:59 for what is against nature.
06:01 Likewise also the men,
06:03 leaving the natural use of the woman,
06:05 burned in their lust for one another,
06:07 men with men committing what is shameful,
06:10 and receiving in themselves
06:12 the penalty of their error which was due. "
06:15 Okay, pretty strong words.
06:16 Those are strong words.
06:18 Pretty strong words, so, go back to verse 25
06:21 to take a careful look at it, he says,
06:23 "Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie,"
06:26 so here's truth and error, right next to it
06:29 and what have people done?
06:31 They have exchanged truth for lies,
06:32 so, who does the exchange first?
06:34 Shelley: The people.
06:35 The people do and they exchange truth for the lie
06:38 and worship and serve the creature
06:40 rather than the Creator who is blessed forever.
06:43 And then it says, "For this reason,
06:44 God hands them over to dishonorable passions"
06:47 and what happens then? Exchange...
06:49 exchange takes place in sexual relations
06:52 where the natural or we would even say,
06:56 "biological pattern"
06:57 is for a man and a woman to have sexual relations
07:00 and here what happens is, there are same-sex relationships
07:04 that are taking place that Paul describes here.
07:07 Now, there are several things we can note
07:10 from just reading these few verses,
07:13 Paul is obviously very negative about
07:16 lesbian and homosexual practice,
07:18 he uses terms like "dishonorable passions"
07:23 he talks about...
07:24 he uses the phrase, "shameless deed,"
07:27 he talks about the penalty that people get,
07:30 he talks about deception,
07:32 twice he describes heterosexual practice with the term,
07:36 "natural usage," in contrast, he speaks of
07:41 the homosexual practice as unnatural,
07:44 he appears to zero in on homosexual practice
07:47 because it illustrates the exchange that took place
07:52 when people left the worship of God for the worship of idols.
07:57 Quite commonly in the Bible the measure you use, as we said,
08:01 is the measure used to judge you,
08:04 Jesus said that in Matthew 7.
08:05 Paul calls the practice of homosexuality
08:09 as something that is unnatural,
08:10 the Greek term is "para physin or phoosin" aka physiken
08:15 he speaks of the natural use of the female in verse 27
08:19 what does he mean then by these terms?
08:23 we're actually helped by reading Romans 11 verse 21
08:27 so turn over to Romans 11 verse 21.
08:30 Okay, you know I realize this is a
08:36 very sensitive topic
08:39 and I want to say how much I appreciate your sensitivity
08:43 and particularly in the last program
08:44 as you set this up for understanding this,
08:51 Romans 11:21 says, "For if God did not spare
08:57 the natural branches, he may not spare you either. "
09:01 Now this is... yeah...
09:02 Speaking here of where
09:04 He has cut of the branches... being Israel...
09:06 and grafted in...
09:08 Yeah, He has grafted in the Gentiles
09:10 and He says that,
09:12 "For if God did not spare the natural branches... "
09:15 He uses the same kind of terminology, so,
09:17 "natural branches" are branches that are naturally part of...
09:22 they are of the same nature...
09:24 They are the original root not grafted in...
09:25 Yeah, they're not grafted in,
09:27 they don't come from something else,
09:28 so, that's what his terminology of "natural" is,
09:31 that which is according to nature,
09:33 that which is a part of a natural order
09:37 or a natural system in nature like a tree,
09:41 it has branches that it had originally, so,
09:43 when he speaks over here in Romans 1,
09:46 he speaks of the natural use and the unnatural use
09:50 and it's biology that teaches you
09:53 that the sexual organs of man
09:55 fit with the sexual organs of the woman,
09:57 there's a natural kind of linkage there,
09:59 so, these are the branches... what he describes in chapter 11,
10:04 there was the domesticated olive tree
10:07 and then you had this other part put in
10:09 so, the term "natural" in Romans 1 is the creation order
10:13 that God set up in Genesis,
10:14 something that biology itself teaches you
10:18 when God made the human beings, He made them male and female.
10:23 Okay, but how do homosexuals...
10:28 he compares them here to idolaters,
10:31 how does that work?
10:32 Yeah, well, actually idolatry comes before the practice.
10:37 - That's what he describes. - Yes.
10:39 Okay, so, actually these verses are discussed in great detail
10:46 by many people, there's much dispute over them
10:48 many writers are questioning Paul
10:51 so those who practice homosexuality...
10:55 are who defend it
10:56 will dispute the applicability of this passage to them today,
11:01 first they'll claim... they'd say,
11:03 "Wait, we're not idolaters"
11:05 and some will say, "Paul had this idea
11:09 that idolatry is what caused homosexual practice orientation,
11:15 and that if idolatry were to disappear,
11:18 so would homosexuality,
11:19 that's the argument that some people will say,
11:22 They'll say, "Wait, we're not idolaters
11:24 and Paul's ideas are kind of mixed up"
11:26 they insist that this passage describes
11:29 not the people with homosexual orientation
11:32 but heterosexual people
11:33 who exchanged their sexual expression
11:37 for homosexual expression and since homosexuals themselves
11:42 do not make the exchange,
11:44 in other words they're trying to be true to their orientation
11:47 that the text does not apply to them either
11:50 they'd even go further in to say
11:52 that if they were to "change" and try to be heterosexual
11:56 that would be going against nature.
11:57 And how would you respond to those arguments?
11:59 Oh, well we got to...
12:00 I got to give you the third one first,
12:02 and then we'll come to that,
12:03 they suggest that Paul does not understand
12:05 homosexual orientation,
12:07 and that the person is naturally...
12:09 their birthright being homosexual,
12:11 so homosexuals maintain that God made them this way
12:13 and to deny this orientation would be to go against God,
12:16 so there are three ideas, that they're not idolaters,
12:20 that they insist that the passage
12:21 is not talking about them
12:23 it's talking about heterosexuals
12:24 and the third idea that their orientation means
12:27 that that's their nature, that's the natural approach.
12:31 Okay, so, we start with the first one about idolatry
12:35 and the basic idea we have to come to look at
12:39 is the question of, "What is idolatry?"
12:42 Okay, so, if I were to ask you, "What is idolatry?"
12:46 It's to worship something other than God.
12:48 To worship something other than God...
12:50 that's a nice, general way to put it,
12:52 okay, now, in the ancient world, they used to have physical idols
12:57 that represented their gods and they worshipped those idols
13:01 to say that they were worshipping their gods
13:03 and things like that,
13:04 the Bible is very, very strong against idolatry.
13:08 I heard one time that there was a man
13:10 who read through his Bible very quickly,
13:12 maybe a week's time,
13:13 and when he finished, people said to him,
13:15 "So... so what's the Bible's message?"
13:17 And he said, "Well, there are two things,"
13:18 he said, "God hates idols"
13:21 and number two, "But He really loves His people"
13:25 Oh, how interesting.
13:27 God hates idols but He really loves His people
13:29 and it's true, why does God hate idols?
13:32 Why is He so down on idols?
13:34 Because you become like whatever you worship.
13:38 Shelley: Become what you behold.
13:40 Yeah, "By beholding we become changed"
13:41 whatever you worship is what you become like.
13:44 Now, people will say today,
13:46 "Well, we don't have idolatry in the land today,
13:49 we don't have people bowing down at graven images.
13:51 Or you think of these poor little teen girls that are
13:54 idolizing some of these Rock-Star type people
13:57 and you see how they become what they behold.
14:00 There are lots of idols in the land,
14:02 it can be money, it can be sex, it can be power,
14:05 it can be position, it can be any...
14:08 just like you said,
14:09 "Anything that takes the place of God, is an idol. "
14:13 So, today in most Societies,
14:17 we don't have people worshipping deities, you know,
14:20 in forms like that,
14:21 or in some Societies that's still there,
14:23 Hmmm... I was just thinking, excuse this, but this is to me
14:28 a profound thought that if your top priority is not God,
14:31 whatever priority you have above God, is your idol.
14:35 Tom: Yes, right. Shelley: Wow.
14:36 Where does our allegiance lie?
14:38 Okay, now, if our allegiance lies to God,
14:41 then we submit to His Word and to His truth.
14:43 Hmmm...
14:45 Whatever His Scriptures teaches us
14:47 in his commands, if we resist those,
14:49 if we say, "No, but, I'm not going to do that"
14:51 then we're rebelling against God, that's still...
14:53 that's really idolatry,
14:55 where we're putting something in the place of God.
14:57 Okay, but... what about the claim that
15:00 the passage is about heterosexuals
15:03 who have switched to homosexuality?
15:06 Right, to homosexual practice
15:07 or bi-sexuality... sometimes people will describe it.
15:10 Paul uses the term, "exchange,"
15:12 okay, and this is where people land on it,
15:15 they'll say, "Wait... " they exchange it
15:17 homosexuals will say,
15:19 "Wait, we're not exchanging anything
15:20 that's our orientation, that's what we've been, okay,"
15:24 this is the reason why I wanted to place this passage
15:28 in the broader context of Romans chapter 1, okay,
15:32 so we could see, in a broader sense,
15:35 what Paul is trying to describe.
15:37 In Romans 1:21 to 23, Paul describes the pagan world's
15:43 reaction to the revelation of God in nature,
15:44 remember, we said that was the primal revelation...
15:46 that was the first revelation, verse 21 clearly indicates
15:50 that they did not glorify God, read verse 21.
15:53 "Because although they knew God,
15:55 they did not glorify Him as God nor were thankful:
15:58 but became futile in their thoughts,
15:59 and their foolish hearts were darkened. "
16:02 Okay, and in verse 22 and 23 it says,
16:05 "Claiming to be wise they became fools,
16:06 and exchanged the glory and will of God
16:08 for images resembling mortal man
16:10 and beasts and animals and creeping things. "
16:13 Okay, so, when we get to verse 23 and onward
16:17 and we read the word,
16:18 "exchanged the glory of the invisible God
16:21 for the likeness of perishable men
16:22 and creatures and so forth,"
16:24 we know that the exchange does not suggest
16:27 that formally they were worshipping God,
16:31 they never worshipped God,
16:34 they rejected what God was saying, you see,
16:37 so there was never... the exchange was not a case
16:40 of, "We used to do this, now, we're going to do this. "
16:42 No, the exchange is actually a rejection of what God had said
16:48 and they were going to go their own way
16:51 and follow their own path, see... right...
16:53 so, "exchange" here was at this more fundamental level,
16:57 it was not leaving a "former practice,"
17:01 it was the rejection of the truth about God
17:04 and embracing the lie of idolatry.
17:06 This is really actually very important
17:09 when we come to verse 26
17:11 and it describes homosexual practice as an exchange
17:14 it is not speaking of an individual level
17:18 as though a heterosexual person
17:20 left heterosexual relations for homosexual relations
17:23 and that that was the sin,
17:26 instead Paul is describing people
17:30 who rejected the God-given order of male-female relations
17:34 and instead practiced homosexual relations, okay.
17:38 So, that... explanation defines that
17:47 or we explained that...
17:49 what about the idea that someone has a "birthright"
17:54 if you will of homosexual orientation?
17:56 Right, okay, this argument is actually more subtle
17:59 and it's important to understand.
18:01 There's a difference between "orientation" and "practice. "
18:04 See, orientation is something "inside,"
18:07 your feelings or for what you're attracted to,
18:11 okay, practice is what you do, all right,
18:15 and so Paul is describing here homosexual practice.
18:18 Orientation is different,
18:20 that's something that has lots of different roots
18:24 and I'm no Psychologist,
18:26 so I don't pretend to try to explain all those things
18:29 you know, I don't have the answers to all those things.
18:31 So... but Paul is describing now practice...
18:36 so as a Biblical Scholar, I feel the question of...
18:40 when people say,
18:41 "Well, what about my birthright of homosexual orientation?"
18:44 It mistakes the question of "orientation"
18:47 with the question of "practice," Paul is describing two things
18:51 internal desires which he calls "passions,"
18:55 and a resulting practice in homosexual behavior.
18:58 Paul condemns the practice, the homosexual behavior
19:02 which he over and over describes in quite negative terms
19:06 as we've already said,
19:08 so, I give my opinion on the matter of "orientation"
19:11 orientation is not practice,
19:14 what Paul condemns is the practice of homosexual behavior.
19:18 Hmmm... hmmm...
19:19 "We indicate in line with Christian teaching in general
19:22 and in harmony with the stance of the Adventist Church,
19:25 that sexual relations are reserved for marriage,
19:27 we've been talking about that already in this program,
19:30 sex is for marriage between a man and a woman,
19:34 outside of that,
19:35 whether a person is homosexual or heterosexual,
19:38 it doesn't matter they are to remain chaste,
19:41 they are not to engage in homosexuality
19:43 outside of that marriage relationship
19:46 between male and female
19:47 so, it's not a question of orientation
19:50 we're talking about here but practice
19:52 and remember that we did not describe homosexuality
19:55 as the primal sin,
19:57 we didn't say that this is one of the big things
20:00 that led to this expression of the "wrath of God,"
20:03 actually it's a result, it's not...
20:05 it's not the expression itself,
20:06 we said that idolatry was the first sin
20:09 and these exchanges that people made in a prior decision
20:12 is what Paul describes now
20:15 as showing itself in these expressions
20:18 of these different passions and these different problems.
20:21 You know, during Paul's time in the ancient world,
20:27 in the Roman-Greco world there were a lot of practices
20:33 going on, homosexual practice.
20:35 Hmmm... hmmm... there was.
20:37 And there was...
20:39 It was valued even by the Greeks.
20:41 And this is something that their "pederasty?"
20:46 Yes, it's called, "pederasty. "
20:48 Pederasty... what...
20:51 was Paul just addressing that idea?
20:56 Yeah, this is another argument that's sometimes brought up
20:58 that the Apostle Paul... pederasty is a relationship...
21:03 a sexual relationship between... well, it can be a man or a...
21:07 it's typically a man and a boy,
21:09 this is a boy before he's reached puberty
21:12 and the man is having sex with him,
21:13 all right, and that was practiced in the ancient world
21:17 and it wasn't taken as something terrible, okay,
21:22 so, people will say,
21:25 "Well, maybe Paul is just talking about pederasty
21:28 and he's simply ruling that out,
21:31 okay, that you shouldn't do that
21:33 but that he approves of committed homosexual relations"
21:38 Now, we do have examples in the ancient world
21:42 of loving, committed homosexual relationships
21:46 and so, sometimes people will want to say,
21:49 "Well, they just didn't have any of that back then
21:51 and so... it doesn't apply to us today
21:53 because they didn't have those experiences,"
21:55 no, they actually did and it assumes much to assume
21:59 that the Apostle Paul had no knowledge of that,
22:02 or any understanding of what was going on
22:06 among the gentiles, he did,
22:08 he gives quite a fair understanding
22:12 of what he has to say, so, is he just describing pederasty
22:16 and that he's really okay with...
22:20 once people become mature
22:24 and they make decisions for themselves
22:26 that they could have these loving relationships,
22:30 the link to Old Testament passages
22:37 opposing homosexual practice and Paul's arguments in Romans 1
22:41 and again in Romans...
22:43 in 1st Corinthians 6 verses 9 and 10
22:46 indicates that this argument doesn't really hold true,
22:50 the Apostle Paul... you see...
22:54 you'd have a strange kind of argument
22:56 that would be involved here,
22:58 first, there is no place in the Bible
23:01 where homosexual practice is affirmed,
23:04 there's no text that says, "Oh, that's good,"
23:07 there's no text that says that,
23:09 and homosexuals who argue on that topic
23:12 and people who argue from that same point...
23:14 they recognize that, they agree with that,
23:17 that there is no text that says that,
23:18 but if they say,
23:21 "Well, Paul is just not describing homosexual practice
23:24 of a loving relationship, he's against pederasty,"
23:28 now, that would be rather odd reasoning
23:31 because in that case... you see, the Greeks said
23:34 that when the boy reaches puberty, this should stop,
23:37 this should stop, so they said,
23:40 "It's okay when he's a boy
23:41 but when he reaches maturity, this should stop"
23:43 now, if Paul is against pederasty,
23:46 he opposes what the Greeks approve,
23:48 if when it comes to the homosexual practice
23:54 of a later time, then,
23:57 what the Greeks just approved Paul is approving?
23:59 That's rather odd reasoning, you see,
24:02 it's flipping... Paul is just the opposite of the Greeks,
24:04 while it doesn't seem too likely,
24:07 in fact, it's what we call, "an argument from silence,"
24:10 to argue that Paul somehow affirms these...
24:15 even loving homosexual practices,
24:17 there's no statement along that line
24:19 and always "an argument from silence"
24:21 is a weaker argument.
24:22 So, we maintain that actually Paul is opposing
24:25 the practice of homosexual behavior.
24:28 So, is there a parallel to today... in today's society
24:37 in what's going on and what Paul says?
24:38 Yes, the strong parallel
24:40 is the pluralism of ethical traditions that we have
24:43 both in the ancient setting and now,
24:45 the claims made that homosexual psychosexual orientation
24:51 was not a Biblical issue is really confused,
24:54 there's an important Biblical Scholar named Anthony Thiselton
24:59 who wrote a powerful commentary on 1st Corinthians
25:04 that I like a lot,
25:05 it's in the New International Greek Testament
25:08 Commentary Series, bit fat, thick book
25:10 on 1st Corinthians and... so this is what Thiselton
25:15 concluded as he describes this whole issue,
25:20 he says, "Paul addresses every form of 'desire,'
25:24 whether heterosexual or materialistic,
25:27 and distinguishes between passionate longing and action.
25:30 It is true that 'homosexual orientation'
25:33 does not feature as a phenomenon for explicit comment,
25:36 but to dismiss the parallel that is between heterosexual desire
25:40 and an illicit habitual heterosexual relationship
25:43 is itself to isolate same-sex relations
25:46 from other ethical issues in a way which such writers
25:50 as Furnish, Scroggs, Boswell, and Nelson rightly deplore...
25:54 Paul witnessed around him
25:55 both abusive relationships of power or money
25:58 and examples of 'genuine love' between males.
26:00 We must not misunderstand Paul's 'worldly' knowledge. "
26:04 Shelley: Hmmm... Tom: That's from page 452
26:08 in his commentary, so basically what he's saying is
26:11 Paul knew about these things, he knew it was going on
26:15 these are pretty strong statements
26:18 that I have been making here in talking about this,
26:20 it's a serious topic,
26:22 I want to go back to some of the things that we said
26:26 at the beginning when we were talking about Rome,
26:29 was... why does Paul talk like this?
26:31 What is he describing, he's describing a sinful world
26:34 that needs the gospel, that needs the love of God,
26:37 for the change that is necessary for us to actually
26:41 to be saved, all of us are sinners,
26:44 Paul goes on in Romans 1 to describe people
26:46 who do other kinds of practices that are rampant in our Society,
26:49 you see some of those kinds of things happening in the church,
26:52 Paul is down on sin and he says that we are all sinners
26:57 who need the grace of God to bring us out of that,
27:00 it is my prayer that this kind of experience
27:03 of salvation can be one that we all experience
27:07 and find the love of God.
27:09 Amen, amen, and that's something that...
27:11 when it comes to listening what are abominations to the Lord,
27:16 lying tongue is an abomination to the Lord,
27:19 we... this is something that...
27:20 as Paul said, repeatedly,
27:25 that it is only by the righteousness of Jesus Christ
27:29 that heirs can be saved, we're all sinners
27:31 and praise the Lord for the good news of the gospel
27:35 that is from faith to faith.
27:36 This has been a very sensitive topic
27:39 but I feel like I've learned some things from you,
27:41 and I want to thank you
27:43 and we just want to thank you for staying tuned
27:46 we've learned a lot,
27:47 I think, this is the end on the sex, we're getting ready to...
27:50 the next program will be on divorce,
27:51 is that correct? Tom: That is correct.
27:52 So, we just hope that you've learned something
27:56 from what the Bible has to say in the New Testament
27:59 about sex and sexuality,
28:01 now, our prayer for you is that God will multiply His mercy,
28:05 His love and His grace to you. Good bye.


Revised 2018-11-05