Participants:
Series Code: IC
Program Code: IC180113A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to sexuality. 00:05 Parents are cautioned this presentation 00:07 may be too candid for younger audiences. 00:31 Welcome to Intimate Clarity, I'm Jason Bradley. 00:33 And I'm here with Jennifer Jill Schwirzer 00:35 and she is a licensed professional counselor. 00:38 And today we're going to be discussing a topic 00:40 that is affecting really a lot of people in the world. 00:46 And it's a conversation that we need to have. 00:48 So, Jen, is remarrying after divorce 00:52 a good idea, bad idea, 00:54 is that a one-and-done thing or what is it? 00:57 Why do you keep opening these cans of worms 00:59 over and over again? 01:00 These are hard questions you keep asking me, Jason. 01:02 As I sip while you... 01:06 While I talk. 01:07 Do it. Yes. 01:08 So I have to be clear that, 01:11 and I think the Bible is clear 01:13 that God's ideal is one partner for life. 01:17 Okay. 01:18 You know that's His ideal. 01:19 Absolutely. 01:21 And that bonding takes place early in your life 01:22 and there's all kind of neuroscience behind this 01:26 and all kinds of science showing that that's really, 01:29 it works the best that way. 01:32 But the reality is that 01:34 not all of us follow that pattern. 01:36 And so it's very important 01:37 that we realize that while God is the Creator, 01:40 He's also the Redeemer. 01:41 And while He has a design that He put in place, 01:44 we need to leave the design there, 01:46 but we also need to realize 01:47 that when we stray from that design, 01:49 our live become broken and we can't, 01:51 we don't any longer adhere to that design, 01:54 God can take the pieces of our lives 01:57 and make something beautiful and redeem the situation. 02:00 So He's both the Creator and the Redeemer. 02:02 Well, what's going on in our world today 02:04 regarding relationships is basically just, 02:07 just mass giving up on relationships 02:12 for lack of a better term. 02:14 Mass relationship attrition we could say. 02:18 And the divorce rate is, you know, 02:20 about half of marriages end in divorce 02:22 and that doesn't even include the ones 02:24 that are in kind of an emotional state of divorce 02:26 that haven't yet been legally divorced. 02:28 You know what it seems like, 02:29 like a lot of people don't take that time 02:32 upfront to invest into that relationship, 02:36 so I mean like, you know, you see all these people 02:38 going to school for however many years, 02:41 getting master's degrees 02:43 and doctorates and all this stuff. 02:45 But when entering into lifelong commitment, it's, 02:51 "Hey, I like you, meet me at the altar." 02:52 Exactly. 02:54 You know, I mean, who does that? 02:55 We spend thousands, tens and thousands of dollars, 02:58 sometimes hundreds and thousands of dollars 03:01 on education that will train us 03:03 to specialize in a specific career 03:06 that we're going to then raise to an art form of excellence. 03:10 And we spend relatively zero time 03:13 actually learning the art and science 03:16 of how to love and be loved. 03:17 Yes, yes. You know. 03:19 And then we fail at that, 03:21 we may excel at our career but we fail at that. 03:24 And what do you really care about 03:25 when you're lying on your deathbed? 03:27 Oh, I should have gone for that other doctorate degree 03:29 or I wish I'd gotten that promotion 03:31 or I wish I'd made more money 03:33 that you can't take with you to heaven. 03:34 Yeah. 03:36 No, you're thinking about I wish I loved people more. 03:37 Yeah. 03:38 You know, so we need to really focus in 03:40 on what makes a relationship work 03:42 and educate people about it, educate ourselves about it. 03:45 But that's God's ideal is one partner for life. 03:48 Jesus said very strong things about divorce 03:51 since and many authorities feel that 03:54 that it really comes down 03:55 to whether you're going to remarry or not, 03:57 that the issue with God is divorce and remarriage. 04:02 For reasons other than adultery 04:05 are a form of just copping out. 04:09 And really if you're marrying and divorcing 04:12 and marrying again and divorcing again. 04:15 For no reason other than 04:16 you don't want to do the work necessary 04:19 and give up your selfishness necessary 04:22 to continue a relationship past that point 04:24 where it's gratifying, 04:26 you're basically engaging in a form of a serial polygamy, 04:30 that's what I call it. 04:31 Where you have your harem 04:32 but it's stretched out over time. 04:34 Now I'm not trying to say that to be hard on people 04:36 that have been through divorce and remarriage, 04:37 I'm not judging you, 04:39 I'm not in a place where I need to judge you 04:40 but I will say that 04:42 as human beings we tend to cop out 04:43 on that hard work that a relationship requires. 04:46 Yeah, yeah. 04:47 And every human relationship, 04:49 not just marriage 04:50 but every relationship will initially be characterized 04:54 by what we call natural affection. 04:56 So God has given us natural affection as human beings. 04:59 We don't have to be connected 05:01 to the supernatural source of love 05:03 to love in a natural way. 05:05 The kinds of natural affection are basically three, 05:08 and they reflect three, 05:10 they're reflected by three Greek words. 05:13 And CS Lewis wrote a book about this. 05:15 So the first is storge, it's family love 05:17 and it's specifically the love between a mother and a child. 05:20 Storge? 05:21 Storge is the Greek word, yeah. 05:22 And then there's phileo which is friendship love, 05:25 it's that horizontal, you know camaraderie 05:28 that you have with your friends. 05:30 Thirdly, you have eros which is romantic love 05:32 that is characterized by sexual attraction. 05:34 Okay. 05:36 Those are the natural affections. 05:37 We all have a certain amount of those. 05:39 You don't have to be a believer in God 05:40 or in any kind of profound way connected to the Holy Spirit 05:44 to be able to love being with your friends 05:46 and fall in love with someone and get married, 05:48 and even dote on your own children, 05:50 that's quite natural, 05:52 all of those things are natural. 05:53 The problem is that eventually natural affection 05:57 will begin to dry up 05:59 and we will miss out on the supply, 06:01 we won't have enough supply 06:03 to continue in that relationship. 06:04 Okay. 06:06 And we especially see this in romantic relationships 06:07 where there's this initial boost 06:09 of dopamine in the brain. 06:11 It's some very interesting neuroscience takes place 06:16 with falling in love, 06:17 you have a boost of dopamine 06:19 which is the pleasure neurotransmitter. 06:22 And it's basically an anticipator 06:24 in neurotransmitter where you're looking forward 06:26 to something happening. 06:28 So there's this excitement in the air 06:30 when you're having that falling in love experience. 06:32 There's also believe it or not, 06:33 some studies have shown a suppression of serotonin. 06:36 And serotonin is the natural mood elevator. 06:39 So this is thought to view why some people that fall in love 06:42 end up obsessing about their partner. 06:46 Low serotonin and OCD go together. 06:49 So it's thought that, 06:50 you know, people start obsessing 06:51 because they're having low serotonin 06:53 but also they're having adrenaline, 06:55 higher levels of adrenaline and of course 06:57 surging hormones that are kind of compensating 07:00 for the low serotonin. 07:01 So there's like this symphony of chemicals that are happening 07:04 in the falling in love experience. 07:06 And it's really basically an unnatural state, 07:09 and no one can really sustain that 07:11 for an extended period of time, the longest period of time is, 07:14 you know, one to two years 07:16 that you can sustain that neurologically 07:17 and then you're going to come crashing down. 07:20 And some people experience something like a hangover, 07:23 you know, where they just come crashing down. 07:25 Are you going to continue to love that person 07:28 that you've now married beyond at that point 07:31 where those chemicals are sustaining 07:33 and the feelings is the question. 07:35 And see, I think it also goes back to 07:38 what was your relationship built on in the first place. 07:39 Yeah. 07:41 You know, because if it was built on 07:43 false pretenses or if it was built on 07:45 something shallow. 07:47 Just sexual attraction. 07:48 Absolutely. 07:49 Yeah. 07:51 Then it's gonna fail. 07:52 Then you're not going to have anything left. 07:53 It's not going to be sustainable. 07:55 You know what's interesting too is like 07:56 when you're walking in the mall or you're at the grocery store 08:00 and you see a man and a woman 08:02 and they're like five feet apart, you're like, 08:04 "Oh, they've been married for 20 years, 08:06 they've been married for 30 years," 08:08 you know, I mean, it's that like... 08:10 But don't you love it when it's the other way 08:12 where there's an old couple and they're just 08:13 clinging to each other like spaghetti. 08:15 Absolutely. It's precious. 08:17 I have an Uncle Jackie and Aunt Joe 08:19 that her name's Jocelyn but they are, 08:24 they've been married for years and years and years 08:27 like I look at them, I'm like, 08:28 that's relationship goals 08:29 because they're so close and I see 08:31 how they attend to each other's needs. 08:33 Beautiful. 08:34 So basically what's going on there is God gives us 08:38 the ability to love and be loved past 08:40 the point of gratification in two ways. 08:42 He provides a source of love through His Holy Spirit, 08:44 the Holy Spirit is poured out, 08:47 the love of God is poured out 08:48 through His Holy Spirit which is given to us. 08:50 Romans 5:5, "So God is the source of love 08:53 but He's also the structure of love." 08:55 Because if you go to the river with a basket, 08:57 you're not going to take back any water, 08:59 you got to have a vehicle that can carry or a vessel 09:01 that can carry that water. 09:04 And so our lives have to be a vessel that God can fill 09:07 and we were able to hold what He pours out into us. 09:11 And that means living by eternal principles of right. 09:16 So that's what's going on in that marriage is 09:18 they're just really committed to each other 09:20 and that creates a vessel that can hold that love. 09:23 And so we're all going to come to that point 09:25 where the love is gone so we think. 09:28 But the good news is that 09:30 that's exactly where God wants us, 09:32 He wants to pour His love out into our lives 09:35 to get us past that point 09:36 so we love empowered by His Holy Spirit 09:40 from that point forward. 09:41 Nice, so that's the driving force. 09:44 And so often couples feel like, 09:46 you know, we've run out of love, 09:47 I guess it's over, they're like, 09:49 you know, being in the middle of the Mojave Desert 09:51 and your car is out of gas. 09:53 And what I say is and what I think 09:54 the Word of God says is no, 09:56 this is exactly where I want you, of course, 09:58 you're going to run out of that chemical explosion 10:00 in your brain, 10:01 but I'm going to keep pouring 10:03 my love out into your heart, 10:04 you're going to be able to continue to love 10:06 into the future. 10:07 And the marriage experts say 10:09 that the love moves from, from passion, 10:12 sorry to compassion at that point 10:15 where you stay with that person past that threshold. 10:18 So that's what's really going on with divorce 10:20 and remarriage that is based just on relational laziness 10:24 or lack of interest or boredom, 10:27 that's just people not staying 10:29 with that relationship past that threshold 10:32 and relying on God to give them 10:34 what they can't generate in themselves. 10:36 Yeah. That's what's going on there. 10:38 Okay. 10:39 And I don't want to get all hard 10:40 and legalistic on them 10:42 'cause they're already probably 10:43 reaping the consequences of that. 10:45 And there's difficulties that come with divorce 10:46 and remarriage that I don't know about 10:48 as a person that's been married 10:50 to the same man for over 40 years. 10:52 Wow, 40 years? 10:55 Well, we think here, almost 40 years, sorry. 10:58 Don't mess it up. 11:00 I was thinking when we air 11:02 or is it going to be a little bit, no, 11:03 it's about 40 years, almost coming on 40 years, yeah. 11:06 Okay, nice. 11:07 1979. 11:09 Can you believe it? 11:10 I can't even believe I live that long. 11:12 Wow. 11:14 But that's what's really going on 11:15 and the Lord wants to give us that ability to stay in 11:19 and stay with that relationship. 11:21 And it's not about being hard on people 11:23 that haven't been able to get that to work. 11:25 And there are reasons why people leave 11:27 and you know one of the things I've experienced 11:28 as a counselor is I used to be very dogmatic 11:31 about divorce and remarriage. 11:32 I'm not as dogmatic as I used to be 11:34 'cause I see the inside of what's going on, 11:37 I see what people struggle with 11:39 and the very, very perplexing problems 11:42 that come upon them. 11:43 And so I just, I feel very merciful toward people 11:46 and yet I'm really thankful that God's been able to keep me 11:48 with this one man that I just loved 11:51 more with each passing day. 11:52 That's a blessing. Yeah, yeah. 11:54 That's truly a blessing. 11:55 What do you want for your life, Jason? 11:57 I want to be one and done, meaning one, 12:02 one wife like for life. 12:05 You know, that's what I want 12:07 like a life of happiness with that wife. 12:12 You know, both growing closer to God. 12:15 And closer to each other. 12:16 And closer to each other, yeah. 12:18 You know, that's a good choice because subsequent marriages 12:21 are actually more likely to end in divorce. 12:23 One study said 41% of first marriages end in divorce, 12:28 60% of second marriages, 12:30 73% of third marriages end in divorce. 12:33 Wow, 73%? 12:36 So in other words the problems just don't just go away 12:39 when you change partners, it, 12:41 you still carry the biggest problem 12:44 which is often what? 12:46 Self. 12:48 Yeah, yeah. Exactly. 12:49 And that's a good segue into like, 12:52 you know, you have to examine yourself. 12:55 That's right. 12:56 Like take a look at yourself, you know, 12:57 when I used to manage a restaurant, 13:00 I used to look at applications and I would look at the reason 13:04 for leaving, and if the reason for leaving said, oh, 13:08 my supervisor and my manager did that or that, 13:11 or the other employees or the staff blaming everybody 13:14 and not taking accountability for maybe something 13:17 that you've done in the situation, 13:19 I wouldn't hire those people. 13:21 So if they said, you know, 13:22 I was just being very unreasonable 13:23 and I left in a fit of anger 13:25 you would be more likely to hire them? 13:27 Not necessary. Okay. 13:30 Not necessarily. 13:31 But I'm reading between the lines. 13:32 But that transparency means a lot, doesn't it? 13:35 Yes, yes. 13:36 And it makes a difference and if they've learned 13:38 from that situation. 13:39 Yeah. 13:41 You know, maybe we could yeah discuss something 13:42 but I'd be little hesitant though. 13:44 That's right. 13:45 And you know in a marriage, if there's one partner, 13:48 I'm not saying it's always possible, 13:50 'cause there are abuse situations that are untenable 13:52 and people just need to move out. 13:54 But if one partner exercises godly principles, 13:58 a lot of times it can, 14:00 it can beautify the whole relationship, 14:01 even if the other one is less cooperative. 14:03 Yes. 14:04 Yeah, I've seen it. Wow. 14:06 Well, I can't believe it, Jen, 14:09 our time just goes by super fast. 14:11 That's right. 14:13 We got to tell people 14:14 where they can get more information. 14:15 Make sure you go to IntimateClarity.tv, 14:18 get those resources and join us 14:20 on the next program. 14:21 God bless. |
Revised 2018-10-08