Series Code: IC
Program Code: IC180121A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to sexuality.
00:05 Parents are cautioned
00:06 this presentation may be too candid
00:08 for younger audiences.
00:29 Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
00:30 I'm Jason Bradley,
00:32 and I'm here with Jennifer Jill Schwirzer,
00:33 and she is a licensed professional counselor.
00:36 And today, we're going to be talking about
00:38 a very sensitive topic,
00:40 but it's a conversation we need to have.
00:43 Jen, is the best solution
00:44 for gender dysphoria transitioning?
00:47 All right, well, that's a really good question.
00:49 You're right, and what I want to do is
00:51 I want to explain what that all is.
00:53 This actually comes in three stages.
00:56 The first stage would be social transitioning
00:58 where the person with gender dysphoria,
01:00 say, for instance,
01:02 he's a male and identifies as a female,
01:04 would socially transition, dress like a female,
01:07 present himself as a female, changes name,
01:11 and kind of accustom his community
01:14 to regarding him as a female.
01:16 That's the first step.
01:17 The second step in transitioning
01:20 is dosing with hormones of the opposite sex.
01:22 So for instance, a male would then take female hormones
01:27 and that would actually change their body
01:29 in significant ways, the face structure changes,
01:32 female to male, the face,
01:34 the man will take estrogen and his,
01:36 you know, women's faces are softer than men's,
01:38 and so he'll start to have more of a feminine face.
01:42 He will start to have less facial hair,
01:48 he'll start to develop breasts, his genitalia will atrophy,
01:52 his male genitalia will atrophy,
01:55 and other changes that come about
01:57 as a result of that.
01:58 The male to female, gets kind of confusing.
02:00 It does like XY chromosomes, YY chromosomes...
02:03 I'm sorry.
02:04 The female to male will take testosterone,
02:06 her voice will lower,
02:08 she'll start to have facial hair,
02:10 her breasts will atrophy, and her female genitalia
02:13 will also go through some changes.
02:15 So those things are going to begin
02:16 the physical transitioning process.
02:19 Some people will then elect to undergo surgery.
02:25 And as I've studied this, I've realized
02:26 that the vast majority of surgical transitions
02:30 are done on the top half of the body,
02:32 either removing breasts or adding breasts.
02:35 Not too many are done on the lower half
02:37 because they're kind of difficult
02:39 and there are some significant side effects
02:42 as a result of those things,
02:44 not the least of which is sterilization.
02:46 The easiest, if you're going to operate on the lower half
02:49 is male to female,
02:52 the most difficult is female to male and very physical.
02:55 There is no coming back from that.
02:57 Yeah, exactly, exactly.
02:58 That's a point of no return. No, I know exactly.
03:00 And we don't want to get into too much detail
03:02 just for delicacy reasons,
03:04 but let's just suffice it to say
03:06 that there are difficulties with these surgeries
03:09 because the tissues of your body
03:12 need a certain oxygen exposure level.
03:15 If you give too much oxygen exposure to a tissue
03:20 that is not accustomed to it, you'll have problems.
03:22 If you have too little oxygen exposure for a tissue
03:25 that is accustomed to a different environment,
03:27 you'll have problems there.
03:29 And so what you're doing with these surgeries
03:30 is inferring things
03:32 that aren't designed to be inverted,
03:33 so what will eventually happen is atrophy.
03:36 So it's a very unnatural process.
03:39 Extremely against nature, like we were talking about
03:42 during one of our programs before.
03:44 So you're going to deal with side effects.
03:46 Whenever you go against nature, against our design,
03:49 you're going to have a physical side effects
03:50 and basically many of these surgeries
03:53 don't succeed for a length of time.
03:55 And it's very interesting to me there was a study in Sweden
03:58 that showed a spike in suicide in transgendered people
04:02 who had undergone surgery from 5% to 10% post surgery
04:08 starting at about 10 years after the surgery.
04:12 So it doubled.
04:13 It doubled,
04:14 and it was already high but it doubled.
04:16 And it happened 10 years after the surgery,
04:18 which I find very interesting.
04:20 And what my educated guess would be about
04:22 what happened there is that individuals,
04:26 for one thing, hoped that
04:27 this surgery would solve all of their problems.
04:30 And a period of time after the surgery,
04:33 they realized it really didn't make me happy.
04:36 I relate to that
04:37 because I've had health problems,
04:39 and I've had surgery for health problems,
04:41 and I thought this is going to fix everything.
04:42 I want to be, you know, like new.
04:45 And then realize it really didn't do
04:46 as much as I thought it would.
04:48 And that can be a crushing revelation.
04:49 And, you know, we see a lot of times
04:50 where there are different medical issues
04:53 and people push certain medicines
04:56 and everything like that
04:57 but it's not dealing with the root cause.
04:59 The root cause. It's just masking the symptoms.
05:01 That's right.
05:02 And that seems like
05:04 that's what's going on in this case.
05:05 So I think there can be
05:06 a profound disappointment on that level,
05:08 but also the surgery itself
05:10 can start to not be as beneficial to that person,
05:12 they can have a lower level of enjoyment,
05:15 and they can even start to experience some problems
05:17 as a result of the surgery, 10 years post surgery.
05:21 So basically this is not in my view,
05:24 and I'm not a doctor,
05:25 so I have to issue that disclaimer,
05:27 but I don't think
05:28 this is the most medically responsible way
05:30 to handle gender dysphoria.
05:34 That's particularly true of children,
05:36 and we're going to address that
05:37 in a whole different program.
05:39 But it's also true of adults, I'm not sure
05:41 it's the right solution.
05:44 I'm not denying the problem,
05:46 I'm just questioning the solution
05:47 because here's the thing.
05:48 You may do the transition, you may socially transition,
05:51 hormonally transition, and then undergo surgery,
05:54 but you can never change the DNA.
05:57 You will always, in terms of your DNA, always be a male,
06:00 I will always be a female, and that will never change.
06:03 So I just think it's a false hope
06:05 that we're holding out to people.
06:07 And I think that transgenderism,
06:09 the movement as we see it today,
06:11 is the fruit of Western individualism
06:15 gone rogue
06:17 because all that really matters is that I'm happy.
06:21 You know, transitioning is very difficult at times,
06:25 depending on your social milieu,
06:28 depending on your community, your family,
06:30 and the people that know you,
06:33 it can be extremely difficult.
06:35 I've had friends that have had children,
06:37 that have transitioned, and they now have to introduce
06:41 their son as their daughter.
06:43 This puts a profound...
06:45 I'm just saying this for myself.
06:48 I have two daughters.
06:49 If one of them decided they were a man
06:51 and they transitioned,
06:53 I don't know that I would ever come to the place
06:55 where I would introduce them as my son
06:57 because I would feel like that would be a lie,
06:59 and I wouldn't want to have to lie.
07:01 Yeah, and so I plan make believe type of thing.
07:03 That's right.
07:04 And so the particular belief of the individual
07:08 just triumphs over the needs of the community
07:12 in this kind of scenario,
07:13 and everybody pretty much around them
07:15 is required to agree,
07:16 even if they know in their heart of hearts,
07:18 this is not a man, this is not a woman.
07:21 And I don't think that that's fair,
07:22 I think that that's dysfunctional,
07:23 and it's denying the community aspect of human life.
07:27 We're not just individuals, we're individuals
07:30 that live within the fabric of a society
07:34 in a body of Christ.
07:36 You know, we're connected to one another
07:37 in a profound way,
07:38 but also in our biological families,
07:40 there are connections, there are relationships.
07:43 And when we're making as big of a decision
07:47 as transitioning would be,
07:48 we need to be in close consultation
07:49 with all the people that would be affected by it.
07:52 And so often, this has not seen that way.
07:54 Yeah, and like you said, 10 years later
07:58 then there those suicide issue is doubling.
08:01 That's right.
08:03 All right, from 5% to 10%.
08:05 Yeah. Wow.
08:06 So what are some of your thoughts and responses,
08:08 this is heavy material, like...
08:10 What are you feeling, you know like?
08:11 It is heavy.
08:12 It's very heavy that the beginning part
08:14 had me a little confused for a little bit
08:17 because it was kind of like in biology
08:18 where they start talking about XX chromosomes...
08:21 And XY.
08:22 YY, XY and all that stuff,
08:24 so the beginning part had me a little bit confused.
08:26 But I think that it's interesting,
08:30 I think that
08:32 you're not addressing the root issue,
08:35 you know, with the gender dysphoria,
08:38 like I don't think that
08:39 they're addressing the root issue,
08:41 which they're just simply masking the symptoms,
08:44 there is an identity crisis that's going on
08:46 that's taking place inside the individual.
08:49 And as opposed to taking a look at, okay,
08:52 where did that originate, where did that come from,
08:55 they're just saying here.
08:56 Here is this solution,
08:58 this temporary/permanent solution.
09:02 You know, apply that and see what happens.
09:05 And then, down the road, you realize, "What did I do?"
09:09 "What did I just do?"
09:11 And this is a fact that many,
09:13 you know, look back and wish
09:14 that it never happened, you know.
09:16 And it makes me think of this gentleman
09:18 that was interviewed on Dare to Dream.
09:21 Now he had a sex change, and he went back,
09:26 you know, as...
09:27 Transitioned back. Yeah, as far as that he could.
09:29 As much as he could.
09:31 So I mean, it's...
09:33 That's right.
09:34 It's definitely a sensitive topic.
09:35 Well, we started out,
09:37 you know, perfect there in the Garden of Eden,
09:39 we fell into sin.
09:41 And as a result of our fall into sin,
09:44 we developed a shame
09:46 because now we're sinful
09:47 and God is holy and we see this.
09:49 We have the sense of this sort of baseline
09:51 sense of distress and shame.
09:53 And the first thing that mankind did
09:56 when faced with that overwhelming sense of shame
09:59 is we manufactured fig leaf garments.
10:01 And I think that those symbolize
10:03 our human attempts to fix ourselves
10:06 apart from God because they were,
10:08 there in the garden,
10:09 God hadn't come into the garden yet,
10:11 and they, like patch it up and fix it up,
10:13 and then God comes into the garden, you know,
10:15 in the cool of the day so it's same day,
10:18 and they jump behind a bush.
10:19 So how much did those fig leaf garments
10:22 which were purportedly there to help them
10:24 overcome that shame really help them in the end?
10:27 They ended up jumping behind a bush and hiding from God.
10:29 So it really didn't work and all of our efforts,
10:32 I think similarly, I think that's symbolic
10:35 of all of our efforts to fix ourselves
10:37 apart from God,
10:39 and I can't help but see this in high relief
10:42 in this phenomena of transition.
10:43 I got to jump in right there.
10:45 I mean, the fig leaves, right? Yeah.
10:48 It's an uncomfortable situation.
10:50 They're scratchy. That's uncomfortable.
10:52 I have fig leaves in my yard. I have fig trees in my yard.
10:55 Yeah. Very rough.
10:56 And so then when we try and fix our own situations
10:59 without the help of God,
11:01 without allowing God to come in and change us,
11:05 it leads to uncomfortable situation.
11:07 If there is one thing I've seen over and over in my own life
11:10 and in the lives of the people that I try to help
11:12 in counseling and in ministry,
11:14 it's that the more we do to try to fix ourselves
11:17 apart from God, the worse we make ourselves.
11:21 We get driven farther and farther
11:23 into the sin cycle
11:25 and more and more entrenched in it
11:27 and the problems compound and they get deeper and deeper,
11:30 and the layers get deeper
11:32 and the corresponding incentive to numb out
11:35 or seek diversions in order to escape
11:38 those layers of problems be intensifies
11:41 and we just get in deeper and deeper
11:44 until, finally, sometimes we come to the point
11:48 where we throw our hands up in the air and say,
11:49 "Lord, it's not working. I can't fix myself.
11:52 You're going to have to take over from here."
11:54 Oh, yes.
11:55 And so I'm saying this out of compassion for people
11:58 that are dealing with transgenderism.
12:00 I don't think I'm coming from a place of,
12:03 you know, feeling of wanting to disparage or put them down,
12:08 I don't feel that way, but it's kind of like
12:10 when you see someone smoking,
12:11 you know, you want them to quit smoking
12:13 because you know
12:15 that the smoking is going to cause health problems.
12:17 And I look at this phenomena of transgenderism,
12:20 I don't deny that some people have an intense desire
12:23 to be the opposite sex,
12:24 and even identify as the opposite sex,
12:26 and feel like they're a woman locked in a man's body
12:28 or man locked in a woman's body,
12:30 and my heart goes out to them,
12:32 but I think that, like you said,
12:35 to try to fix it in our own way,
12:38 apart from God is only going to make it worse.
12:41 We need to get to the root of the problem.
12:43 And to get to the root of a problem like that
12:45 is such a profound crisis as an identity crisis
12:50 requires the Holy Spirit of God
12:52 coming into that person's life and helping them
12:55 to trace from cause to effect, what happened in my life,
12:58 what are some of the variables that occurred
13:00 that led me to this place
13:02 where I feel like I'm the wrong sex
13:04 locked up in the wrong body.
13:06 And that's what the Holy Spirit can do.
13:08 He can show us, what led us to the point
13:11 where we got and then the same spirit
13:14 can give us the power to change.
13:16 And I think the people dealing with transgenderism
13:19 can come to a place
13:21 where they have peace with their own biological sex.
13:24 I think that that's possible.
13:25 That's a change of mind.
13:27 And the Bible says, "Let this mind be in you, "
13:29 which was also in Christ Jesus says,
13:31 be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
13:34 The renewing of the mind is much more possible
13:38 if I can put it this way than renewing your body,
13:41 changing your body.
13:43 You never going to change your DNA.
13:45 And even the transitional surgery
13:46 doesn't work all that well,
13:48 so you're really never going to be
13:49 able to do that effectively.
13:52 I would say, the easiest route is to,
13:54 you know, seek renewal of the mind.
13:57 Yeah, like you said, it's no going back sometimes.
14:00 Sometimes you reach the point where you can't return.
14:03 So, yes, I agree with that. We've uncovered a lot.
14:07 We have.
14:08 And if you want some more information,
14:11 go to IntimateClarity.TV
14:13 and check out the resources there.
14:15 Our time is up.
14:16 Make sure you join us next time on Intimate Clarity.