Participants:
Series Code: IC
Program Code: IC180123A
|
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to sexuality. 00:05 Parents are cautioned 00:06 this presentation may be too candid 00:08 for younger audiences. 00:29 Welcome to Intimate Clarity. 00:30 I'm Jason Bradley, 00:32 and I'm here with Jennifer Jill Schwirzer. 00:34 And she is a licensed professional counselor. 00:38 And today we're going to be discussing 00:40 a sensitive topic, 00:41 but it's a conversation we need to have. 00:44 You know, is adultery the end of marriage, 00:48 or can it be worked out, 00:51 or what are your thoughts on that? 00:54 Well, yes to both 00:55 because each situation is different. 00:57 But let me go, like I often do to God's ideal model. 01:02 God designed us 01:03 to have ideally one partner for life. 01:07 And what we find in the research 01:09 is that when people follow God's plan, 01:11 they have a number of a host of benefits 01:14 they come to them. 01:15 Let me give you some examples, better partner communication, 01:19 better relationships satisfaction, this is all been, 01:21 you know, quantified in research, 01:23 better health, better mental health 01:26 and even a better love life. 01:28 This research comes out of Brigham Young University 01:31 which is a Mormon University. 01:32 And the Mormons, you know, often we think polygamy, 01:35 but that's not really a correct association 01:37 'cause it's really only the extreme, 01:40 you know, groups that are polygamous, 01:42 but the majority of them 01:44 are just really family oriented people. 01:46 I've met some of them, I've talked to them. 01:48 And Brigham Young University 01:50 has a lot of really good family research. 01:51 And so they've identified the benefits of God's plan 01:55 for monogamy for the human race. 01:58 So let's get into some of the, you know, brain chemicals. 02:01 I like to talk about brain chemicals. 02:03 There's a hormonal basis for monogamy. 02:06 Oxytocin is released 02:08 by the pituitary during sexual intimacy 02:13 and during childbirth, 02:14 a number of other family events, 02:15 there's lots of oxytocin. 02:17 Oxytocin is a bonding hormone. 02:19 There are prairie voles, it's a type of rodent. 02:23 Prairie voles? Voles. 02:25 Okay. 02:26 That's a type of rodent that happens to be monogamous. 02:28 Most animals aren't monogamous, you know, they're animals. 02:31 But there are some monogamous, Geese are monogamous too. 02:34 It's very interesting, 02:36 they're more monogamous than people. 02:37 I didn't know. Yeah. 02:38 And so these monogamous prairie voles 02:42 if they are bonded with their mate, 02:44 they will actually become hostile 02:45 toward other females. 02:47 So they'll really like nature 02:49 is working to keep them faithful 02:50 to their wife. 02:52 And maybe something like that happens with men, 02:53 I don't know. 02:54 But my point is that by raising 02:56 that oxytocin in that bonding experience, 02:59 God facilitates faithfulness. 03:01 Another interesting fact 03:03 is when a woman becomes pregnant, 03:05 her husband's vasopressin levels rise. 03:08 Now we think the reason that they rise is 03:10 because the woman who puts out pheromones 03:12 which are undetectible sense, 03:14 and the man picks them up unconsciously, 03:16 and they cause 03:17 a biological mechanism in his body, 03:19 and his vasopressin levels go up. 03:22 What's the significance of that? 03:25 Well, vasopressin is called the monogamy hormone 03:28 because it counters the effect of testosterone 03:32 which is called the prowling hormone. 03:34 Testosterone is responsible for the sex drive 03:37 in both males and females 03:38 and obviously men have higher levels of it 03:40 and men are more inclined to cheat on their wives. 03:45 But when she becomes pregnant, 03:46 God puts all of these chemicals in motion 03:48 to try to keep that man faithful. 03:50 So what happens with vasopressin increases, 03:53 it encounters testosterone, cuts down on the sex drive, 03:56 and he's more likely to stay home with wife. 03:59 Isn't that something? Oh, that's a good thing. 04:01 And also men gain empathy weight 04:05 when their wife becomes pregnant. 04:07 Really, they gain empathy weight? 04:08 They do. 04:10 And interestingly enough, when a man gains weight, 04:12 typically he gains in the stomach, 04:14 in the abdominal area, 04:16 and there's an inverse relationship 04:18 between abdominal fat in males and sex drive. 04:21 So the more abdominal fat, the lower the sex drive. 04:24 So on many fronts God is trying to keep 04:26 that man home with his wife. 04:27 So that's good timing. 04:29 So he stays... 04:30 In other words, 04:31 God orchestrates things down to the brain chemicals 04:34 and down to the hormones to help us follow His plan. 04:38 We still rebel against it. 04:40 But He does everything He can do to make it easier 04:43 to follow it. 04:44 But still 15-18% of people cheat 04:48 with men twice as likely to cheat. 04:50 No offense, Jason, but it's fact. 04:52 Men are more often, you know, unfaithful. 04:56 We don't have to become a statistic. 04:58 And you don't want to become a statistic. 05:00 You don't want to become 05:01 the negative side of the statistic. 05:03 And you don't have to. 05:05 We think the genetic wiring may be at play. 05:09 In science they've divided men, they classified men 05:12 into two categories, dads and cads. 05:15 And they think that men 05:17 may be born with certain tendencies 05:18 toward unfaithfulness more than others. 05:21 But even if you are born with those tendencies, 05:23 you still don't have to become a statistic. 05:26 That's right. 05:27 Yeah, you don't have to act on that, yeah. 05:29 You still have a choice and that's the thing 05:30 we need to remember is there is nature, there is nurture, 05:33 and there's also this amazing thing 05:34 called free will. 05:36 And you can say no to nature and nurture 05:38 when it's pointing you in the wrong direction. 05:39 It's possible by connecting our will to the divine will 05:43 and the Holy Spirit filling us and giving us God's power. 05:46 Absolutely. Amen. 05:47 So females are apparent more responsive 05:50 to cultural influences as pertains 05:53 to their level of promiscuity. 05:55 So the more of the culture approves 05:58 of promiscuity or cheating in women 06:01 the more they are likely to engage in that behavior. 06:04 Women are very susceptible to environmental influences. 06:07 And maybe... 06:08 Their numbers are probably raising today 06:10 with all that's going on. 06:11 That's exactly what I was going to say 06:13 is there are more teen girls having sex today 06:16 because I think of the environment 06:18 socially, the social environment 06:19 that they are in. 06:21 Most world religions skew adultery, 06:25 like it's pretty universally understood to be, 06:28 even if it's like, 06:29 you know, other things are approved 06:31 of in that society, 06:33 most world religions and societies 06:35 recognize cheating as morally wrong. 06:39 And that it can be very shame inducing. 06:42 But here's the crazy thing is that 06:43 that shame can actually become an enticement factor, 06:47 that secrecy can drive a person into secrecy. 06:51 So what we see is that secrecy factor adds 06:53 a little extra thrill. 06:55 And people can become addicted to hiding things. 06:58 You know, I remember seeing this story 07:00 about this famous actress who was obviously wealthy 07:04 because she was a famous actress, 07:05 a shoplifting, getting caught shoplifting. 07:08 Mind blowing, she didn't need that stuff. 07:10 You know, she had all the money in the world to buy it. 07:12 But there's the thrill involved in the chase. 07:15 And that unfortunately enters into this adultery issue. 07:19 We see this evidence in websites 07:21 like Ashley Madison and these types of websites 07:23 where people just literally hook up 07:25 with strangers. 07:27 So another question that arises and I'm just kind of running 07:30 through my bullet points here 07:31 but is pornography a form of adultery? 07:33 How would you weigh in on that? I would say yes, it is. 07:36 Really? How so. 07:37 It's not a person. 07:39 It's not a person, 07:40 but you're lusting after the person 07:42 that's on the other end of the screen. 07:44 That's right. I think so. It is a form of adultery. 07:47 I would say that it's, 07:49 you know, that if a wife discovers 07:51 that her husband is using adultery 07:53 or using pornography 07:54 which is usually the way it happens, 07:56 sometimes it goes the other way. 07:57 I want to be fair. 07:59 But I don't know 08:00 that's immediate divorce court material 08:02 I think that that man could overcome that addiction. 08:05 And that there should be given 08:07 some time for that in most cases. 08:10 However, I think a pornography that is engaged in addictively 08:15 for a long period of time 08:18 without that individual doing sufficient work 08:20 and making sufficient effort to deal with that addiction 08:24 that would constitute adultery in grounds, 08:26 in my opinion grounds for divorce. 08:29 You know, Solomon said, 08:30 "Drink water from your own cistern, 08:33 running water from your own well 08:34 should your streams overflow in the streets." 08:37 If only men would realize that their sexual capital 08:40 is a gift from God 08:42 and shouldn't be wasted in relationships and in context 08:45 where it causes destruction and breaks God's plan, 08:50 breaks with God's plan for human sexuality. 08:52 If men could only realize that and embrace that, 08:55 we'd all be better off, wouldn't we? 08:58 Yeah. So what are your thoughts? 08:59 Well, I think that God's divine design 09:03 is what we should follow. 09:05 I feel like, we should be focused 09:06 on following God's plan, 09:09 and keeping sex in the confines 09:12 of a marriage between a man and a woman. 09:15 And adultery constitute, 09:17 you know, Jesus only gave permission 09:19 for divorce in the case of adultery 09:20 so it must be pretty serious. 09:23 I think the reason is 09:24 because you're effectively marrying 09:26 that other person in a sense 09:28 not in the complete sense of marrying them 09:29 as a public ceremony, 09:31 but you are uniting with them as a spouse 09:33 when you commit adultery with them. 09:35 And so in a sense 09:37 you've already ended the marriage. 09:38 And I think Jesus said 09:39 that because it's very difficult 09:41 to recover from adultery. 09:43 And it goes against everything from the beginning, 09:45 you know, the one man, one woman principle like, 09:49 you know, forming that relationship 09:51 being married to one woman, one spouse. 09:54 Now oftentimes women don't have, 09:56 if the man is cheating 09:58 and he's providing for the family 09:59 and she's caring for children at home, 10:01 she may be in a situation where she doesn't have 10:04 even the ability to end that marriage. 10:07 And that's part of the reason that in the western world 10:09 we've started to work things 10:11 to where a man has to support a woman, 10:14 you know, because we assume 10:15 that she's been investing in the children. 10:17 And there are accommodations for situations like that. 10:19 But there are still situations 10:21 where that woman doesn't have the resources to break 10:24 that marriage and continue her life alone. 10:28 And that's a tragic situation 10:29 we need to come around those women and really, 10:33 you know, love them. 10:34 I think about a couple that I counseled. 10:38 There was everything 10:40 they could go wrong in the marriage went wrong, 10:42 there was domestic violence, 10:44 there was unfaithfulness, there was, 10:46 you know, just court orders, and all kinds of stuff. 10:49 And this couple would come week after week and seek help. 10:55 And I would look at them and I would think you guys, 11:00 you know, you've been through a lot. 11:02 But they kept coming. 11:04 And I would say to the husband, 11:06 you know, when you learn 11:08 what servant leadership really is, 11:10 you're going to experience a conversion 11:12 and you're going to love her the way 11:14 she needs to be loved. 11:15 And I would say that to him over and over, 11:17 it felt like it was... 11:18 He fell asleep in a session once. 11:20 I mean he was just so checked out the sky, 11:22 but I kept saying that over and over again. 11:24 And then I would get the woman alone 11:25 and this woman had been through 11:27 so much in her marriage that her doctor told her, 11:30 you divorce him or I won't see you again. 11:33 I mean, her caregivers were angry at her 11:36 for staying with him. 11:38 And I would ask her, you know, what keeps you here. 11:40 And she would say, 11:41 I just, I don't know what it is, 11:43 God has not told me to leave yet. 11:45 He has not said I should leave. 11:48 And so I honored that, 11:51 you know, commitment that she had 11:52 and I continued to support her. 11:55 And I got a call from her one day 11:56 and she said everything has changed. 11:58 He's treating me like a queen. Everything is different. 12:02 He had finally grasped servant leadership 12:04 and his life had turned around. 12:06 I'm sure they've had relapses, you know, things 12:07 that aren't usually in clean line, 12:09 we don't have this flight to health 12:10 and everything is fixed. 12:12 But at least he had a moment where he realized 12:15 what it was like to be a servant leader 12:16 and their marriage was transformed by it. 12:18 So yes, people can come back from adultery, 12:20 it's possible through the grace and power of Jesus. 12:23 I think that it would be like, 12:26 for me if I were in that situation, 12:28 I think it would be super hard to come back from that, 12:30 like, let's say for example 12:33 I was married and my wife cheated on me. 12:37 That would be very, very hard for me 12:41 to salvage that. 12:42 I would just be ready for a divorce at that point. 12:45 I wouldn't trust her. 12:46 If there's no trust, you have nothing. 12:48 That's right. So. 12:50 Well, that's why I've dedicated a whole program 12:52 because, Jason, you don't really know 12:54 what you would do in that situation 12:55 'cause you're not there yet. 12:57 So maybe you'll change your mind, I don't know. 12:59 I doubt it. You doubt it. 13:01 Yeah, I strongly doubt that. But yeah. 13:02 But that's why I've dedicated a whole program 13:04 to how to recover from adultery. 13:06 Because I've counseled a number of couples 13:08 that went through that. 13:10 And some of them just they love each other, 13:11 you know, it happened and it was terrible. 13:14 And sometimes the cheating takes the form of, 13:16 you know, something less than forming a relationship 13:19 with someone else, 13:20 maybe it's a strip club or maybe it's pornography, 13:22 you know, type of thing. 13:24 So, you know, some people do want to come back 13:26 and that's why I'm trying to give them marching orders 13:29 and action steps for that. 13:30 Yeah. Yeah. 13:32 You know, and hopefully if they do decide 13:34 to come back that their relationship can flourish 13:37 and be stronger than ever. 13:38 Sometimes when we commit an obvious sin, 13:41 you know, we can be very pharisaical 13:43 and very committed to our own righteousness 13:45 until our sin becomes so obvious 13:47 that we can no longer deny it. 13:49 And adultery is one of those things 13:50 that's so universally condemned 13:53 that it's almost like the social stigma of it, 13:55 it's just so crushing that I can see 13:56 where it would drive a person to the cross 13:59 where they would give up on themselves 14:00 and reach out to Jesus in a way they never had before. 14:03 Absolutely. Absolutely. 14:04 Well, thank you for sharing all that information, Jen. 14:07 And if you want more information, 14:09 make sure you go to intimateclarity.tv. 14:13 And please make sure you join us next time 14:15 where we will be discussing another sensitive topic. 14:18 God bless. |
Revised 2018-10-29