It Is Written

From Grief to Grace

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Bradshaw (Host), Karen Johnson

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Series Code: IIW

Program Code: IIW001346A


00:05 JOHN: You've heard the stories, like that of Job,
00:07 who in the Bible had everything a man could want, and then
00:10 he lost it, all suddenly and tragically.
00:15 What happens, though when those Bible stories get out of
00:18 the pages of the Bible and find their way into
00:21 the lives of everyday people? I'm here in "Everywhere USA" it
00:25 could be where you live, regular people, living regular lives.
00:30 And it's here where I'm going to speak with Karen Johnson, whose
00:34 life was struck by terrible, random tragedy, but then God
00:39 turned that into triumph, through the power of his grace.
00:44 jjj(Theme Music)jjj It has stood the test of time.
00:55 God's Book, the Bible. Still relevant in today's
01:02 complex world. It Is Written, sharing hope
01:09 around the g JOHN: Karen, thank you so much
01:22 for taking the time to talk with me today.
01:24 KAREN: You're welcome. JOHN: It had been a perfect day.
01:27 Your husband John and yourself had had a great day, and then,
01:29 and then in the evening... KAREN: In the evening we decided
01:34 that we were going to go out on our date night.
01:36 We hadn't had a date night in quite sometime and I was very,
01:39 very excited. I had just got my hair done the
01:42 day before, and we decided that we were going to do three
01:44 things. We were going to go out
01:48 to a restaurant to eat first, because I told him I was hungry,
01:51 then from there we were going to go to a friend's house
01:53 and we were going to spend some time with a friend.
01:55 And then we were going to cap it off by going to my
01:57 mother's house. She had just had her birthday,
01:59 four days prior to Saturday, and we hadn't seen her.
02:04 And so that was the plan. JOHN: So things were going
02:07 great, what, what happened later on that evening?
02:10 KAREN: As we drove out of our particular development, we got
02:13 out into the main street, which is called Gruesville.
02:16 We headed on down Gruesville, and he told me to pick
02:18 the restaurant, and so, Elk Grove is, at that time,
02:21 was a much smaller city than what it is now,
02:24 but we had a few restaurants.
02:27 We had Friday's, we had Chili's, we had Red Robin.
02:30 As we turned the corner, John, my husband kind of sat back in
02:33 his seat and he said, "[sigh] Honey, this is gonna
02:37 to be a great year." And I said, "Really?"
02:40 He said, "Yes." And I, that was like music to my
02:43 ears because we, we're a blended family, we had our struggles,
02:50 and for him to say, "Honey this is going to be a great year", it
02:54 was one of the best things that a wife could hear from a
02:56 husband, right? As we're continuing down on, I
03:00 saw another restaurant, but I decided, "No, I'm a vegetarian,"
03:05 and I thought, "Probably not a very big selection
03:07 of vegetarian food." So we kept going.
03:09 And then I turned to my right and I noticed this restaurant,
03:13 it was a new restaurant, a sports grill.
03:16 And I said, "Honey how about Mandango's?"
03:18 And he said, "What is Mandango's?"
03:21 I said, "It's a new sports restaurant."
03:23 And he said, "Really? Had you ever been there?"
03:24 And I said, "No." And so he said, "Let's go!"
03:29 And so I pulled into the parking lot, it was pretty crowded,
03:31 and it was dark, so I parked on the opposite side
03:35 right in front of the Asian Market, and we hopped out
03:38 of the car, and walked into the restaurant.
03:41 JOHN: A great evening. Things are looking good.
03:44 It's going to be a great year. You ended up where you ended up
03:48 sort of randomly, you could have been at any other, a number of
03:51 any other places... KAREN: That is true.
03:53 JOHN: So you went in there and you spent your evening.
03:55 Things are looking good. The future is looking bright.
03:58 And then a random event took place...
04:01 KAREN: Well when I got inside of the restaurant, immediately my
04:03 spirit didn't feel right. I had, we had a wonderful day,
04:08 and spiritual things, and I walked into the restaurant and
04:12 all I could hear was MUSIC, and I could see the TV screens all
04:16 around the restaurant, and it really wasn't what I expected
04:19 for a date night. People laughing, drinking...
04:25 and I wanted to leave. But as I turned and looked at
04:29 him, I noticed him looking at the TV screens.
04:31 And when I saw that I thought, "You know, I don't want to mess
04:35 it up for him, I don't want to be selfish."
04:37 And so, I didn't say anything and he said, "Honey, there's a
04:40 seat, there's a table right over there."
04:42 And we walked and we sat down. We ordered.
04:45 He, um, was really into the game.
04:48 More into the game than me, and I was feeling a little
04:50 jealous. But I knew that we were going
04:54 to spend time over, his friend's name was Duane Whitherspoon,
04:58 so we were going to go to Duane's house
04:59 and we were going to see my mother, so I figured I would
05:01 have enough quality time with him by the time the date was
05:04 over. JOHN: and then as you do,
05:09 people leave the restaurant. KAREN: Yes.
05:13 JOHN: You'd mentioned how you'd started to feel, in the
05:15 restaurant, not everything was perfect, and I don't know if
05:17 that was a portend of things to come, but when it was time to
05:20 leave, walk us through what happened next.
05:23 That's a very good point, very good point.
05:25 Well, half way through the meal, my husband says, "Uh, honey,
05:28 we're not going to be able to see Mom."
05:31 And I thought, "Excuse me?" He says, "We're not going to be
05:33 able to go over to Mom's house." And I said, "Why?"
05:35 He said, "Because we don't have enough time."
05:37 So I just immediately just asked the waitress to come over
05:39 and please give us a ticket so that we can go.
05:42 JOHN: And life is about to change ...
05:44 KAREN: Yes. JOHN: ...
05:45 in the most terrible and drastic way that a person could imagine.
05:50 I've read your book, and it recounts the story.
05:54 You went to the parking lot, you got into your car, sat in the
05:58 driver's seat ready to drive. John did not immediately get
06:03 into the car. He was on the phone.
06:05 And while he was on the phone, you heard him say something.
06:08 KAREN: I did. I heard him say "spoon," and
06:14 when he said spoon, I thought oh they're just joking back and
06:18 forth, because him and his friend would always joke.
06:20 My husband was a jokester. He joked about and laughed about
06:22 everything. So he said "spoon" and I
06:26 thought, "Oh, okay, you know, they're talkin'...and then he
06:28 said, "Man get that out of my face."
06:29 And so when I heard him say, "Man get that out of my face."
06:31 I thought maybe his friend cracked a joke, or something
06:35 and he said, "Aw man get that out," you know?
06:37 And then I heard, "POW!" ...and I just sat there.
06:43 JOHN: You didn't respond. KAREN: I did not respond.
06:46 I ju, I just sat there. What went through my mind, what
06:50 I can recall went through my mind was SouthSack
06:53 is a little ways. That happened out there, that,
06:57 that didn't happen here, I didn't, you know.
06:59 So I heard it, but I just discounted is as being maybe
07:02 something that happened way off in the distance, so I just sat
07:05 there. When I didn't hear anything,
07:08 I turned and I looked to my right.
07:10 And he wasn't there. Again, I went back to my forward
07:14 position, just looking. After a few seconds, and again I
07:18 don't know how long it was, I turned and looked over to my
07:21 left, and when I looked to my left [pause]
07:25 I saw this man with a shotgun on his shoulder, like this,
07:29 pointed up to the sky. And when I saw that, immediately
07:33 everything started coming back, uh, "spoon," "man get that out
07:37 of my face," the silence, and then I saw the guy walkin'
07:40 with the shotgun. Immediately I said,
07:42 "He's been shot." He, he's been shot.
07:44 JOHN: And what did you do? KAREN: Immediately I opened up a
07:46 car door to run around to find, to find my husband.
07:50 When I opened up the car door, he turns around-the murderer,
07:54 the person with the shotgun-he turned around with...
07:57 like robotically, and he looked right at me, in my direction.
08:02 And when he did, I ducked. I ducked because I just knew,
08:04 one: he saw me, and two: he was going to come back
08:08 and finish me off. And what kept going through my
08:10 mind is, "I can identify him, he saw me, he's going to come back
08:14 and he's gonna kill me." So I was paranoid.
08:16 So I'm shaking, and I'm ducking so that he won't see me,
08:21 but I see him. I saw him the whole time.
08:23 And I'm just shaking, and I truly believe
08:26 that I was praying. I can't tell you what I was
08:29 saying, but I just, all I can remember thinkin' is he's gonna
08:31 kill me, he's gonna kill me, he's gonna kill me.
08:35 When he didn't see he, he turns around again, very robotically,
08:38 and he starts walking away from the car.
08:43 And when he did that I knew then that that was the best time ever
08:48 to get out, and to find out where my husband was.
08:51 So I immediately jumped out of the car, and I ran around to the
08:57 passenger side, and I could not believe what I saw.
09:00 My husband was laying there on his back, with his eyes closed,
09:06 and all I could see was his jugular vein pumping.
09:09 That's all I could see. And all I could think is if I
09:14 if I just stay there, he's gonna die.
09:16 I need to get help. And I just ran, and I darted out
09:19 quickly, and I ran back into the restaurant.
09:22 JOHN: Let me ask you. At that moment, how much hope
09:27 did you have that John was going to survive?
09:31 That John would live? Or were you even thinking
09:33 about that? KAREN: All I was thinking about
09:35 was getting help. At that moment, I thought that
09:38 if I got help, he would live. So, yes, I did have some hope
09:43 there. But when I got inside
09:46 the restaurant, it was very difficult for me to get
09:51 the attention of the patrons and/or of the management
09:53 there, because of the music was so loud, the TVs
09:58 were blaring, people were laughing...and I started
10:01 screaming out, I started screaming and I started saying,
10:03 "My husband's been shot!" And when I said, "My husband's
10:06 been shot!" nobody heard me.
10:10 And so, I changed my plea, and I said, "CALL 911!
10:15 My husband's been shot!" And when I said, "CALL 911!"
10:20 There were two men that were sitting at the bar, but they
10:22 heard me and they turned around and they said, they came over
10:26 to me and they said, "What?" I said, "My husband's been
10:27 shot," I said "There's a man outside, he's shooting, he's
10:30 shooting. My husband's been shot!"
10:34 They immediately ran outside with me and I pointed to our car
10:38 and I said, "He's there." You know, showed them
10:39 my husband. But they could still hear
10:42 the guy was shooting in the air, and you could hear
10:45 round after round going off in the air.
10:49 And they could hear the shooting.
10:52 And after we were out there I told them, "I'm gonna,"
10:54 I took off, and told them I was going to run back
10:56 to my husband's side. And they said, " Ma'am, no you
10:58 can't go." And I said, "Why?"
11:00 And they said, "Because it's too dangerous."
11:01 I said, "But he needs me." They says, "No ma'am, you need
11:04 to go back inside." And I was like, "Why, why, why?
11:06 He needs me!" However, the Lord knew that we
11:10 were going to be there that night.
11:12 He knew we were going to be there, and so there were
11:14 Christians in that restaurant. There were believers, there were
11:17 "prayin' people" in that restaurant.
11:20 And they started coming around me and they started laying their
11:23 hands on me, and they started comforting me, praying for me,
11:26 telling me...just comforting me. JOHN: And it wasn't long after
11:30 that, you received word, or it was inferred to you, that your
11:37 husband wasn't going to make it. KAREN: It was inferred to me.
11:41 Later, minutes later, I guess maybe a half hour or so later,
11:44 I don't know, this other lady walked up to me,
11:46 she was a nurse, and she walked up to me
11:48 and she stood right in my face, I remember this and she said,
11:51 um, "Ma'am, I tried to give him CPR, but they wouldn't let me."
11:55 And she just did this... and she walked away.
12:02 And when she did that, I knew. When she did this...I said,
12:08 "He's not gonna make it." JOHN: What do you do?
12:12 You're full of hope. This year is going to be a great
12:14 year. And that very night, randomly,
12:20 everything ends. And the life of the one you love
12:23 most is tragically, senselessly, and brutally ended.
12:29 And then, you've got to go ahead, and make a choice.
12:34 Am I going to live my life, and put the pieces back
12:39 together, or is this going to destroy me also?
12:41 Karen was confronted by that choice.
12:43 Let's find out in just a moment, how she responded when
12:47 the question was asked of her. In Matthew 4:4, the Word of God
12:53 says, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word
12:58 that proceeds from the mouth of God.
13:00 Every Word is a one minute Bible-based daily devotional
13:03 presented by pastor John Bradshaw, and designed
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13:18 Watch Every Word, you'll be glad you did.
13:21 Here's a smple Astronomers in Australia
13:33 announced a few years ago that they had calculated
13:36 the number of stars in the sky. Seventy sextillion.
13:40 That's seventy thousand million million million.
13:42 70 followed by 22 zeros. That's more stars than there are
13:47 grains of sand in all the Earth's deserts and beaches.
13:50 And the astronomers say their number is way too low.
13:52 In Psalms 8:3-4 we read these words.
13:55 "When I consider thy heavens, the works of thy fingers,
13:59 the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained,
14:02 what is man that thou art mindful of him?"
14:04 God has made a universe that vast, and yet He is still
14:08 'mindful' of the human family. We serve a great,
14:11 and a big, God. If He made all that -
14:14 and He did - you can be certain
14:16 He can take care of you and your burdens today.
14:18 I'm John Bradshaw for It Is Written.
14:21 Let's live today by Every Word. Planning for your financial
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14:38 call 1.800.992.2219. Call today or visit our special
14:44 website, www.hislegacy JOHN: On March 25, 2006,
14:58 Karen Johnson's life was changed forever.
15:01 She and her husband John had enjoyed an evening together,
15:04 when John's life was tragically and brutally cut short by a man
15:10 high on methamphetamines, wielding a shotgun and carrying
15:14 a Satanic Bible. I don't think it's very hard for
15:17 you and I to imagine the sorts of emotions Karen felt after
15:23 that awful event. Anger, I don't know.
15:28 Malice, bitterness. We can imagine these things.
15:32 But Karen was confronted with a choice.
15:34 Do you let your life fall apart? Do you fall into a pit of
15:37 despair and bitterness and hate? Or somehow, do you try to piece
15:43 your life back together again, and go on with your head held
15:48 high and your dignity in tact? Karen, that's the decision you
15:53 were confronted with. What was your response to that
15:57 decision, or to that question when it was asked of you?
15:59 KAREN: Yeah...it was very difficult, of course
16:03 [clears throat], it was numerous things that
16:06 continued to happen as I was grieving
16:10 through the process. One of the most difficult things
16:12 was for me to be able to come to terms, come to grips, that my
16:17 life has changed forever, I felt so displaced, I felt like
16:21 someone who I could relate to Joseph being thrown into the
16:25 pit. I could relate to Job
16:27 when he lost everything just in the twinkling of an eye
16:29 [snaps fingers], it was just all gone.
16:31 Um, those stories, believe it or not, John,
16:34 helped me somehow to, uh, bring perspective to what
16:39 I was dealing with myself. I couldn't even breathe,
16:46 I couldn't even imagine living past my next breath.
16:50 It was just that hard. It was that difficult.
16:54 But I knew that I didn't, you know, I didn't want to die,
16:58 and I knew I had to put my life back together again.
17:00 JOHN: Now as a Christian, you're supposed to be able
17:02 to lean on Jesus, but as a Christian, we go
17:05 through this life thinking, "Well God is going
17:08 to protect me, God is going to keep harm from coming to me.
17:12 Yet in His ... whatever we're going to call it
17:15 providence, or wisdom, or all-knowing-ness, God allowed
17:19 this tragedy to strike. Were there moments you were,
17:21 were angry with God? KAREN: No.
17:25 JOHN: No anger with God? KAREN: No.
17:27 JOHN: Which is a remarkable thing.
17:29 KAREN: No. JOHN: What kind of conversations
17:31 did you have with God? KAREN: "Why?"
17:33 I needed to know why. I wanted to know why, I needed
17:35 to know why, but I wasn't angry because I know that we wrestle
17:39 not with flesh and blood, but against principalities and
17:41 powers and all of that. I knew that.
17:45 I know about this great controversy between
17:46 good and evil, between Christ and Satan. I knew that.
17:50 So somehow, I realized that I was a part of this great
17:54 controversy. Now, what do I do with this?
17:58 And so, I proposed in my heart to turn evil into good
18:02 but it wasn't easy and it was a process.
18:05 JOHN: It had to have been a monumental struggle.
18:07 KAREN: All I wanted to do was to bring glory and honor to God.
18:10 That's what I wanted to do. .The funeral, just at the
18:14 funeral, I wanted to put my husband away in decency
18:18 and in order. And it was a decision that I had
18:23 to make. My sister said something to me,
18:26 she says. "You know, you come from a very
18:28 strong family" and so I thought that, you know, and then again
18:31 I thought about my relationship with Christ, and things like
18:33 that so I think all of that and the people that rallied
18:37 around me helped. JOHN: So instead of just pushing
18:41 you away from God, like it would for so many people, this event
18:44 drew you, urged you even closer to God.
18:49 KAREN: More than ever before. JOHN: And you were able to find
18:51 strength from God in a senseless,
18:56 terrible situation. KAREN: I was.
18:58 And, as I said, the big question for me was "Why?"
19:01 Why John? Why me?
19:05 Why now? Why did this have to happen?
19:08 Why? And he revealed a lot of things
19:11 to me, over the year, over the years, he revealed
19:14 a lot of stuff to me, but that was the big question
19:16 so I wasn't angry, I just wanted to know "why"
19:19 and it drew me closer to Him. I turned into him instead
19:23 of turning away from him. JOHN: Something you just said
19:25 and it comes out in your book, "Covered and Kept",
19:27 KAREN: A ha. JOHN: Forgiveness is a process.
19:30 KAREN: Yes. JOHN: So you were able to bring
19:33 yourself to a healthy place. KAREN: Yes.
19:36 JOHN: But it didn't happen just like that.
19:38 KAREN: No, it did not. No, not at all.
19:40 One of the things .. I am into health and fitness,
19:45 and I follow the eight laws of health, and I teach you know,
19:48 health reform to my students and my classes,
19:49 and I had to put all of this together.
19:52 When it happened, I did not want to exercise.
19:56 I had lost 16 pounds in a week and a half.
19:59 I was very weak. I was very distraught but I knew
20:05 that I had to start practicing again the principles that I was
20:06 teaching and preaching to my students.
20:09 JOHN: And if you were ever going to be whole, if you were ever
20:11 going to be complete, if you were ever going to be
20:13 a functioning successful Christian,
20:15 KAREN: Yes. JOHN: You were going to have
20:17 to make a decision regarding forgiveness and, in just
20:21 a moment, Karen is going to talk to us and tell me how she was
20:26 able to wrestle with the idea of forgiving the man who murdered
20:31 her husband, and she will tell us whether or not she was
20:34 able to forgive. I'll be right back.
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22:18 is, itiswritten.com. JOHN; Karen, as a Christian,
22:25 you are going to start wrestling with the question of forgiveness
22:28 KAREN: A ha. JOHN: Even forgiving the man who
22:30 brutally took the life of your husband,
22:34 KAREN: Yeah. JOHN: And as you wrestled
22:35 with that, God brought you to this place, to the cemetery
22:37 and spoke to you here. KAREN. Yes He did.
22:39 Yes He did. JOHN: How did he do that?
22:41 KAREN: Through his Word. Speaking to heart.
22:44 I just kept being pulled here and I couldn't understand why.
22:49 I would go to an appointment with my mental health therapist,
22:52 and right after that appointment, I would come right
22:55 here to the cemetery, and I would stand here, right where we
22:59 are standing, and I know he is dead, in the grave, I know that.
23:04 But I was talking to the Lord, I was praying.
23:06 And I was asking him to show me how to forgive, and John, I had
23:11 more than one person to forgive as well.
23:14 But it was here at the cemetery that I was able to find
23:16 that peace. JOHN; And Karen, it was in the
23:19 courtroom, the day that the man who murdered your husband was
23:20 sentenced. KAREN: Yeah.
23:22 JOHN: God gave you the opportunity, impressed upon your
23:24 heart, to do something that most of us would find absolutely
23:27 remarkable. How did that happen?
23:28 KAREN; Well, again, I did not know what I was going to say and
23:32 my girlfriend prayed and said, Let's allow Jesus, the Lord,
23:37 to put the words in your mouth. And everything was orchestrated
23:41 where I would be the only person who would speak on that day
23:45 to share with the judge, the courtroom and the defendant
23:49 how I was impacted. I did not know where I was going
23:52 to go, I started off with independence,
23:54 but in the end, I looked him in the eye, the murderer,
23:57 and I told him I forgave him. I went on to tell him
24:02 that I do not condone ... don't get it wrong ...I don't
24:06 condone with you did, but, I said the second time,
24:10 I forgive you. Now, up until that time he
24:14 showed no remorse whatsoever and that was the first reaction,
24:17 the first reaction we got to show us that there was,
24:22 that he had somewhat of a heart, you know, and he said
24:27 thank you. Not audibly, but with his lips,
24:31 he said thank you. JOHN; I read in your book,
24:33 Covered and Kept hhe said thank you to you not one time,
24:36 but twice. KAREN: Twice.
24:37 But twice. JOHN: I know you are going to
24:42 understand what I mean when I say this.
24:44 If there is anyone in this world who did not deserve forgiveness,
24:48 it's the man who murdered your husband.
24:50 He was in the wrong. We could go through a whole long
24:53 list of things. KAREN: Yeah.
24:55 JOHN: From a human point of view, he did not deserve
24:56 forgiveness. KAREN: Um hum.
24:59 JOHN: But that is not the standpoint you
25:00 were operating from. KAREN: It was not.
25:01 It was not. And I know now and I knew then
25:04 why God kept sending me here to this cemetery because every time
25:09 as I drove around here crying, sad, grief, remorseful,
25:13 depressed, I was playing Via Dolorosa, as a matter of fact,
25:17 Jaime Jorge, I would listen to that, tears rolling down my face
25:21 and what I could see was Jesus hanging on the cross.
25:24 That's what he showed me. That's what I could see.
25:27 He didn't die just for me and you but he died
25:29 for the Aaron Duns of the world, those people that are murdering
25:33 and do wrong. And again,
25:36 there are consequences to our actions and I wanted him
25:39 to understand that but also I wanted him
25:41 to understand that he has an opportunity to give
25:43 his life to Christ if he chose and that was
25:47 the message that I believe God wanted me to share with him
25:49 at that time. JOHN: That's the message
25:51 of grace. The same mercy that God has
25:53 shown sinners like me. KAREN; Yes.
25:57 JOHN; You then extended and demonstrated
26:01 to this man, guilty, sentenced to death.
26:06 KAREN; Yes, sentenced to death, that's right.
26:08 JOHN: But you showed him grace, forgiveness, pardon undeserved.
26:12 KAREN: Yes. JOHN: That is one
26:15 of the powerful things about your story, how it played out
26:18 down at this end of the story. KAREN: YES.
26:20 JOHN: It mirrors what God has done for me and you.
26:22 What God has done for everybody. KAREN: Yes.
26:24 Yes. I agree.
26:26 JOHN; Thanks for sharing your story with me.
26:27 KAREN; And thank you. JOHN; Thank you so very much.
26:29 KAREN; Yes. JOHN; You know friend, God
26:31 is a God of great grace. A God of great mercy.
26:35 He is a God of justice, but he is a God who is good.
26:39 There are people in this world and you are one of them who do
26:44 not deserve forgiveness. Who do not deserve goodness.
26:48 Who do not forgive grace. But God, through his Son Jesus
26:54 Christ, has come to this earth to offer us pardon, forgiveness,
26:59 cleansing, and wholeness, even though we do not deserve it.
27:05 God has offered that to us. Let's pray together now
27:09 and thank God for that goodness, for that grace.
27:13 Let's pray together. Our father in heaven, we can
27:16 just say thank you today because you are good when we are not you
27:21 are great and good and right but I thank you that for the sinners
27:27 of this world you offer grace, you offer pardon, you offer
27:30 forgiveness. We don't deserve it but as Karen
27:34 has demonstrated, grace is so powerful when it is not deserved
27:39 and Lord, I wish that it wi have a powerful affect in our lives
27:43 now. Bless us please, for your honor
27:46 and glory, in Jesus name. Amen Thank you for joining me
27:52 today and until we meet again next time, please remember,
27:55 It is Written man shall not live by bread alone
27:58 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.


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Revised 2015-07-08