It Is Written

The Faith of Desmond Doss

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

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Series Code: IIW

Program Code: IIW016122S


00:01 [theme music]
00:22 [drum and trumpet music]
00:31 This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
00:33 Thanks for joining me. Right about now, Americans are
00:37 preparing to celebrate a national holiday.
00:40 For many people, it's the best time of the year.
00:43 Thanksgiving: family, sometimes travel, always food.
00:49 And a time for us to reflect on just how good God has
00:52 been to us. It's not unusual for people
00:55 around the table at Thanksgiving dinner to recite what they are
00:59 thankful for from the previous year.
01:03 Well, this year--every year, truthfully--I'll be thankful
01:06 for, among other things, the Bible: God's book,
01:09 God's revelation to us of Himself and His love
01:12 for a sinful world. The Bible contains the story
01:16 of the plan of salvation: how Jesus came from Heaven
01:18 to Earth, to die so that we might live.
01:22 That's something to be thankful for.
01:24 When you come to the Bible, you don't have to read too
01:27 far to find great men and women of faith.
01:30 You read about Abraham, or of Samson,
01:33 somebody like Daniel, people who, driven by
01:36 the Spirit of God, did great things for
01:38 the honor of God. Outside the Bible, we find great
01:42 men and women of faith also, and today we're going to
01:47 discuss somebody who had great faith in God:
01:49 such great faith that his otherwise unremarkable life
01:54 became remarkable for the glory of God;
01:57 so much so, that this individual was one of
02:00 the very few to receive a Congressional Medal
02:02 of Honor. His name was Desmond Doss,
02:06 and joining me today to discuss Desmond Doss
02:08 is Pastor Les Spear, who for several years
02:11 was Desmond Doss's church pastor.
02:14 Les, thanks for joining me today on It Is Written.
02:16 It's a pleasure to have you here.
02:18 LS: It's my pleasure to be here. JB: Now, you've been in ministry
02:20 pretty much all your adult life. How long, now?
02:23 LS: Forty-six years. JB: And you were the pastor of a
02:25 church Desmond attended for how many of those years?
02:28 LS: About three and a half. JB: But your association with
02:30 Desmond predates those and postdates those years.
02:34 LS: Correct. JB: So, you knew him for about
02:36 how many years? LS: About 22, 23 years.
02:39 JB: And in those years, you can get to know a
02:41 person pretty well. LS: Yeah.
02:43 We became personal friends. Sometimes your church members,
02:46 you get to know very well. And because of Desmond's
02:51 reputation, because of his wonderful, quiet,
02:55 humble manner, he's the kind of man that everyone
02:58 wishes they had as a father or grandfather.
03:01 And you could sit beside him and ask him questions.
03:05 He wasn't intimidated; he wasn't full of himself;
03:09 he was just as open and transparent as sunlight.
03:13 JB: Now, not that many people are awarded the Congressional
03:16 Medal of Honor. Maybe you can explain what it
03:20 was that Desmond did that saw him receive the Congressional
03:25 Medal of Honor from President Harry Truman.
03:28 LS: First of all, you have to understand that the
03:31 background of his boot camp, Desmond was despised because
03:35 he was a conscientious objector.
03:38 He didn't like that term. He said, "I'm a conscientious
03:41 cooperator." JB: But nevertheless, during his
03:44 time in the military where he served as a combat medic,
03:47 he refused to carry a gun. LS: Yes.
03:50 JB: Leading many of those he served with to hate him.
03:53 LS: Yes. So when it came to warfare,
03:56 however, the ugly duckling turned out to be a beautiful
04:00 person who would go after them--the wounded soldiers--
04:05 no matter where they were. If they were in the line of
04:07 fire, he would go after them, risking his own life many,
04:10 many, many times, grab them by the collar and
04:13 drag them out. JB: Here's how I understand it:
04:15 Desmond said that during that white-hot, intense battle on the
04:21 Maeda Escarpment in Okinawa, Japan, he brought to safety,
04:26 under the most difficult circumstances imaginable,
04:29 fifty wounded men who otherwise would have
04:32 lost their lives. The military says it was 100,
04:36 at least, soldiers he served with, so they split the
04:38 difference. LS: Yes.
04:40 JB: And said Desmond Doss saved 75 men while under fire,
04:44 literally in the crosshairs of Japanese marksmen.
04:49 LS: Now, let me tell you something I asked Desmond
04:51 about one day. I said, "Desmond, after you
04:54 saved two or three people and you lowered them down
04:57 with a rope about 40 feet to where the other men
05:00 could get them and take them to aid station,"
05:02 I said, "did you continue to crawl
05:04 on the ground?" He said, "No."
05:06 He said, "After a while, I understood that God was
05:09 protecting me, so I stood up and carried men on my
05:12 back. I drug them; I didn't try to
05:15 stay on the ground anymore." And he, and the other men,
05:18 who were down there, said that the bullets were
05:21 like bees flying around him, but they didn't touch him.
05:25 So I said, "Desmond, is this story about you?"
05:28 He said, "No. This story is about my God that I serve."
05:32 JB: Describe Desmond Doss as a person--you've done that a
05:35 little bit--something about his background and how he grew up
05:37 as a man of faith. This was a committed Christian.
05:40 LS: He grew up a very poor home. His mother and father worked,
05:45 both of them, part-time, without regular jobs,
05:49 during the Depression. His father was a very bad
05:52 alcoholic, prone to beating the children.
05:55 The mother was a Seventh-day Adventist Christian,
05:58 and the Bible and church was very important.
06:01 Mr. Doss, Thomas Doss, one day at an auction,
06:05 he bought a little picture of the Lord's Prayer and
06:09 of the Ten Commandments for 75 cents, and they
06:13 hung that behind a chair. And interestingly, Desmond liked
06:18 to stand in that chair and watch and look at and understand the
06:23 Ten Commandments with the pictures that were there.
06:26 And his mother said one day, "Desmond, you're going to wear
06:30 that chair out looking at that picture."
06:33 She really didn't mind. But that picture had
06:36 a tremendous influence on not killing anyone:
06:41 the picture of Cain killing Abel, and of the
06:44 seventh-day Sabbath, and those were two big,
06:47 monumental foundations that shaped his
06:50 character. JB: He chose to be a
06:53 conscientious cooperator. As you said, he didn't like the
06:56 term conscientious objector. LS: Yes.
06:59 JB: But he, he volunteered for the military.
07:02 LS: Absolutely. JB: Now, when you volunteer for
07:05 the military, you don't get to dictate the terms under which
07:09 you will serve. LS: That's true today, but it
07:13 was quite a little bit different back then, during World War II.
07:17 Today, if a person volunteers, they go in as a combatant.
07:24 They must carry arms, unless it's convenient for them to
07:28 not to do so. Then, there was a law that
07:31 allowed them to not carry a gun, which he refused to do,
07:36 and still be on the battlefield, still be saving life instead
07:43 of taking it. He didn't, he said,
07:45 "I'm willing to salute my flag. I'm willing to go in uniform.
07:48 I believe in my country. I'm very patriotic."
07:51 And he was one of the most patriotic people I've ever
07:53 seen or met. But he would not kill;
07:58 he would not take life. JB: A man who would not take
08:00 life, who would not carry a weapon, but was awarded the
08:04 Congressional Medal of Honor: a remarkable man, a servant
08:08 of his country, and a man of faith.
08:10 More of the Desmond Doss story in just a moment.
08:14 [Music] When you read the Bible,
08:20 you read about many great heroes of the Bible:
08:23 people otherwise ordinary who, moved by the Spirit
08:26 of God, did great things for the glory of God.
08:30 Outside of the Bible, we meet heroes as well,
08:33 and Desmond Doss, though he would never
08:35 refer to himself as such, was undoubtedly a
08:39 modern-day hero. A Congressional Medal of Honor
08:42 recipient who went into battle with nothing more than a medical
08:46 kit, a prayer on his lips, and a very small Bible
08:50 just like this one. This was Desmond Doss's
08:54 strength. I would like to share with you a
08:57 little book called, "The Faith of Desmond Doss,"
09:01 which will share with you what it was that made Desmond Doss
09:04 a great man of faith, and how you, too, can have that
09:08 kind of faith in God. To receive "The Faith of Desmond
09:12 Doss," please call, right now, 1 (800) 253-3000.
09:17 That's 1 (800) 253-3000. If, when you call, the line is
09:22 busy, please do call again. You can call 24 hours a day.
09:27 If you'd like to write, please write to:
09:29 It Is Written, P.O. Box 6, Chattanooga, Tennessee,
09:32 37401, and we will send you a free copy,
09:36 if your address is within North America.
09:39 Or go to our website for a free download, www.ItIsWritten.com.
09:47 Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written.
09:48 I'm John Bradshaw. My guest today is
09:51 Pastor Les Spear, who for several years was
09:53 the pastor of Congressional Medal of Honor recipient
09:56 Desmond Doss, and for many years was his close and
10:00 trusted friend. Desmond Doss is the central
10:03 figure in the movie "Hacksaw Ridge,"
10:06 which focuses on one of the most intense military
10:08 engagements in this country's history.
10:12 Les, since the end of the Civil War, less than 2,000
10:16 individuals have received the Medal of Honor.
10:19 In order to receive that award, you have had to have done
10:24 something outstanding. And typically, in order to do
10:27 something outstanding, you had to be someone outstanding.
10:31 Now, what sort of person was Desmond Doss, the man?
10:34 LS: Some people will be acquainted with the Myers-
10:37 Briggs Personality Profile. Desmond was an INFJ, and if you
10:45 Google that, it comes out that it's Mr. Integrity.
10:51 He would not violate his conscience.
10:53 I don't know of a single incident where he violated
10:56 his conscience in his whole lifetime.
10:58 He was so rigid to do what he felt was right, regardless
11:03 of the consequences. JB: Which led him,
11:05 while in the military, to make the decision
11:07 that he wouldn't carry a gun.
11:09 He would be a conscientious cooperator.
11:11 You mentioned before that he was despised for that, at least
11:14 for a while. That turned around.
11:16 What kind of pressure did he experience in the military
11:19 for his decision? LS: He was beat up.
11:22 He would, was not allowed to have passes home, even to
11:26 get married, earlier. The men would make fun of him.
11:30 They would ridicule him. They despised him, because he
11:34 wouldn't be like them and carry a gun and kill the enemy.
11:38 JB: As a spiritual man, you observed him up close.
11:40 What was his spiritual experience like?
11:43 LS: He was a person who was not full of himself.
11:45 He was very humble, very kind, very patient.
11:50 He was willing to listen. Another soldier met him,
11:55 and the soldier said, "Desmond treated me like
11:59 I was the recipient of the Medal of Honor."
12:04 And he said, "When Desmond goes to the Medal of Honor convention
12:08 every other year, the other recipients line up to see him."
12:13 Now, isn't that amazing? So it's not a story necessarily
12:16 about Desmond. It's a story about the
12:19 miracle-working power of Desmond's God.
12:23 JB: Up on Hacksaw Ridge, or more appropriately referred to,
12:26 up on the Maeda Escarpment at Okinawa, he was literally
12:30 in the crosshairs of Japanese weapons and
12:34 guns. Bullets were flying past him,
12:36 yet he distinguished himself with immense bravery and
12:41 absolute heroism, leading him to receive the
12:44 Congressional Medal of Honor.
12:46 Now, you have that medal here today.
12:47 Might we see that? LS: Yes.
12:49 This is the Congressional Medal of Honor.
12:51 There are very few people who wear this, believe me.
12:54 I think there's only about 150 who are still alive at this
12:58 time. JB: In addition to the
13:00 Congressional Medal of Honor, he was awarded with
13:02 other awards. What were they?
13:04 LS: He received two Bronze Stars, the Oak Leaf Cluster
13:07 for valor. He received three Purple Hearts,
13:12 and was wounded most severely the last time, after the
13:16 Maeda Escarpment. The Japanese had built
13:19 tunnels in this mountain, and they had pillboxes,
13:24 they had machine gun nests set up, designed
13:26 not to be on the offensive but on the defensive.
13:31 So, my history books say that between 2,200 and 2,300
13:36 American lives were trying to take this mountain
13:40 range. It wasn't so big--about 400 feet
13:43 high--but they had designed it so that when they got there,
13:47 many soldiers would die. At one place, there was a
13:51 little creek. Human blood was almost
13:54 knee deep. So, here you have Desmond going
13:58 up there, on the second famous day, and as he goes up there,
14:04 the Japanese are shooting at him, and he is going and
14:10 rescuing men. But instead of crawling on the
14:14 ground, after realizing that God is protecting him,
14:18 he doesn't worry about the bullets at all.
14:20 And he just goes and gets people and puts them on his back.
14:23 He sometimes will help them walk, if they are capable
14:26 of walking at all, carries them to the side and
14:29 lowers them over, 40 feet down where the other men
14:32 can get them and take them to military aid.
14:34 Just trusting in the Lord. And I asked him,
14:37 "What were you thinking?" He said, "I was praying,
14:40 'God help me get one more before I die.'
14:43 'Help me get one more.' 'Help me get one more.'"
14:46 JB: Big, strong man, was he? LS: No.
14:49 He was probably 130 pounds, at this time.
14:52 JB: A hundred and thirty pounds, yet he singlehandedly rescued
14:56 and then lowered to safety at least 75 men, while bullets
15:01 were flying past. LS: One of the other men in the
15:05 unit said that the bullets up there were like a bunch of
15:08 bees flying around him. JB: What sort of long-term
15:12 effects did Desmond Doss suffer after having served in the
15:15 military? LS: Something that we have in
15:18 our vocabulary today is Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome.
15:22 Desmond suffered that for probably 10 or 12 years.
15:27 He called it "the demons." He would think of people that
15:31 were, he considered them his men, and he would see them die.
15:35 He would try to save them, and they would die or be blown up.
15:40 JB: This was going on in his mind?
15:42 LS: Yes. And so, for years this, all this
15:45 trauma is going on in his mind. Today, we deal with
15:48 psychologists and psychiatrists and so forth, to help our
15:52 soldiers in these situations. Desmond had none of that.
15:55 Plus, after he got well from the injuries of his body and his
16:00 left leg that was blown up with a hand grenade, he has TB
16:06 for five and a half years, and he couldn't even be
16:10 with his wife but for a few minutes a day.
16:13 And he couldn't be with his son for fear that his son would get
16:16 TB. This was a terrible
16:19 psychological imprisonment, almost, during his life for
16:25 years, probably 10 to 12 years he suffered these emotional
16:30 problems. JB: And then there was his
16:32 hearing. LS: Yes.
16:34 When they treated him for his problems physically--
16:39 antibiotics were new, in World War II--
16:42 the doctors didn't know how much to give.
16:45 And so they gave him way too much, and he would have ringing
16:49 in his ears for years. And finally, sometime after
16:53 World War II, he became totally deaf for 12 years, until they
16:59 have a new miracle surgery called 'cochlear implant.'
17:03 After he got the cochlear implant, it was possible
17:06 to communicate with him. He said, "But everybody talks
17:09 like Donald Duck." Ha ha ha.
17:11 I found that if I lowered my voice, I could speak slowly,
17:16 and if I faced him, he could read my lips and we could
17:19 carry on a good conversation.
17:21 JB: Did you ever know him to consider or to suggest that the
17:24 price he paid for serving his country was too high?
17:28 LS: Never. He said, "I received the
17:31 Congressional in honor of the men who died, because they
17:35 gave a much greater sacrifice than mine."
17:38 JB: Quite a remarkable man, and now the subject of a
17:42 major motion picture entitled "Hacksaw Ridge."
17:44 There's already been documentaries, books,
17:47 and many other productions in honor or in respect of
17:53 a man who gave so much for the country that he loved,
17:57 motivated always by honor for God.
18:02 We'll be back with more in just a moment.
18:06 [Music] "Every Word" is a one-minute,
18:07 Bible-based daily devotional presented by
18:10 Pastor John Bradshaw, and designed especially for
18:12 busy people like you. Look for "Every Word" on
18:15 selected networks or watch it online every day on our
18:18 website, ItIsWritten.com.
18:23 [upbeat piano music] Paul and Silas were doing
18:31 God's business in Philippi. They were hounded for days
18:34 by a demon-possessed woman, so they do the right thing,
18:37 the God thing, and they cast the demon out of her.
18:40 But as a result, they ended up in prison, their backs having
18:43 been brutally opened up by a Roman whip and their feet put
18:45 fast in stocks. And yet the testimony
18:48 of God's Word is that in their darkest hour,
18:51 their faith in God was strong.
18:53 Acts 16:25 says, "And at midnight, Paul and Silas
18:57 prayed and sang praises unto God, and the prisoners
19:00 heard them." Instead of complaining that
19:03 God had abandoned them, they prayed and sang.
19:05 The other prisoners were touched, God worked miracles,
19:08 and the jailkeeper was saved. When you're in a tough
19:11 situation, instead of complaining, pray
19:13 and praise God. That's when miracles happen.
19:17 I'm John Bradshaw for It Is Written.
19:19 Let's live today by every word.
19:23 Thanks for joining me today on It Is Written.
19:25 Today, we're discussing Desmond Doss,
19:28 Congressional Medal of Honor recipient, whose experience
19:31 is portrayed in the movie "Hacksaw Ridge."
19:35 Pastor Les Spear, his pastor for several years,
19:37 his friend for many years, we spoke a few moments ago
19:40 about how Desmond Doss was hated, absolutely despised,
19:44 because he chose to be a noncombatant.
19:48 He said he was a conscientious cooperator,
19:50 but, in spite of that decision, later on was
19:53 awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.
19:55 So, something happened to turn around in the minds of many
19:58 people this concept of a man who was perhaps a coward,
20:02 couldn't be relied on, to, in the minds of his own
20:05 peers, he really became a hero, in their minds.
20:09 Explain that transition that took place.
20:12 LS: In basic training, one of the men said,
20:14 "In battle, I will kill you."
20:16 When it came to the battle time, later, that particular man who
20:20 had threatened him in basic training was running the other
20:24 way, away from the enemy, when Desmond was going
20:28 into battle to save his men.
20:30 And Desmond was not afraid to risk his life again and
20:34 again and again, where, if anyone was wounded
20:37 and they cried for a medic, he was on his way,
20:41 in spite of the harm and the foolishness.
20:44 One time, the commander said, "Desmond, wait a little while."
20:48 And Desmond said, "He may not be alive in a little while,"
20:52 and he crawled on out to get that man and drag him
20:55 back. JB: Earlier, there was a
20:57 complete lack of respect for Desmond and his faith.
21:01 Later on, there was an immense amount of respect for his
21:06 faith in God. Describe that for me.
21:08 LS: When they tried to get up the Maeda Escarpment--
21:12 Hacksaw Ridge, as it's called by the men--
21:15 they were, climbed that ladder seven times, and
21:19 they were kicked off seven times.
21:22 One of the times, Desmond said to the commander,
21:26 "Sir, shouldn't we have prayer before we go up?"
21:29 His intent was that every man should pray,
21:32 "Forgive me of my sins," and make peace with God.
21:35 So the commander called the men together and says,
21:38 "Desmond wants to pray for us." Well, that wasn't Desmond's
21:41 thought, but that's what he did, and he prayed
21:43 a very simple prayer. "Lord, give our commander
21:47 good instructions. Help us to follow safety
21:50 procedures, that we will all be able to return
21:52 safely and alive." That day, everyone in their unit
21:59 came back alive. Not a single one.
22:02 JB: A very rare occurrence. LS: When the other group that
22:06 was beside them were just mowed down.
22:08 They were on a neighboring part of the escarpment.
22:11 They were slaughtered, almost. JB: A remarkable story.
22:14 LS: Absolutely. JB: What sort of legacy do you
22:16 think he left behind? LS: I happen to be the,
22:19 not only a personal friend of his but also his
22:21 trust officer. Desmond understood the principal
22:24 from Scripture that we are just stewards.
22:27 We're not owners of anything. And so Desmond wanted everything
22:31 that he had, except for a few personal items, to build up
22:35 God's kingdom. And so he left not only his
22:38 money, but also his time, his commitment.
22:42 He was eager to do everything he could to build up the work of
22:47 Jesus Christ. JB: I understand he invested
22:49 with his own time and energy in young people.
22:53 LS: Absolutely. JB: Tell me a little bit about
22:55 his work with young people. LS: Well, he loved to go to
22:57 high school, to private schools, to churches, synagogues,
23:02 wherever he could find people, but especially he wanted
23:06 to spend time with young people.
23:07 And he would tell them that if they would trust in God, God
23:11 would direct their paths. And Desmond said,
23:14 "That's true with me, and it'll be true with you,
23:17 if you commit your life to Jesus Christ."
23:19 JB: How did young people respond to this fellow?
23:21 Let's keep in mind, he was a frail, older, deaf man.
23:24 LS: Yes. JB: And, and he could interact
23:26 with high school kids? LS: Oh, it was amazing.
23:29 One time, there was a group of perhaps 225 people, and almost
23:34 all of them were young people. They sat there, almost
23:37 mesmerized. They were just awestruck.
23:42 I was amazed. These were 10-, 12-, 13-,
23:45 14-year-olds, and they were just (ah), with their mouths hanging
23:49 open, listening to the story of God's protection and providence
23:55 for him. JB: It really is a
23:57 remarkable story. It's a story of, of protection,
24:01 as you say, providence, and faith and trust in God.
24:06 Now, Desmond Doss today rests in a cemetery not very far from
24:10 where we are sitting right now, and he's a man who was
24:13 a significant part of your life.
24:15 Just briefly, what kind of impact did Desmond Doss,
24:19 the man, have on you? LS: In any church, there are
24:23 stresses, sometimes squabblings, sometimes jealousies, and
24:30 Desmond was a person who frequently had his picture
24:33 in the newspaper, in the parades around town,
24:37 and there were some problems in the church
24:42 and in the social structure of the community.
24:45 And Desmond struggled with that, but he was not going to let that
24:50 influence him not to go to church, not to be faithful,
24:54 not--he was always determined, "No matter what others do, I
24:59 will be faithful to God." JB: And it's that faith that's
25:02 so beautifully portrayed in the film "Hacksaw Ridge,"
25:06 in the documentary "The Conscientious Objector,"
25:08 in books and so much that's been written and produced
25:12 about this man. Pastor Les Spear, thanks for
25:15 joining me today. LS: It's been my pleasure.
25:17 Thank you. JB: Well, let's pray together
25:18 before we go. Let's pray.
25:20 [Music] Our Father in heaven, we are thankful for the way
25:22 You've placed Your hand on lives, which then reveal to
25:27 so many Your goodness, Your glory,
25:30 Your providence and Your power.
25:32 As we consider the life and the legacy of Desmond Doss,
25:36 we are mindful that Your impact on a life can make
25:40 any life profound, any life influential,
25:45 any life tell for your glory. As we come to You with our
25:48 struggles and weaknesses, I pray that Your touch,
25:51 Your blessing would see Your will done, and though
25:55 the great majority of us will never be known like
25:59 Desmond Doss was known, I pray that in our sphere,
26:01 our lives would give evidence that we have been touched and
26:04 blessed by the God of Heaven.
26:07 Thank You, that You are the God of great things.
26:09 In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen.
26:12 [Music]
26:28 JB: I would like to share with you a little book called
26:30 "The Faith of Desmond Doss," which will share with you
26:34 what it was that made Desmond Doss a great man
26:37 of faith, and how you too, can have that kind of faith
26:42 in God. To receive "The Faith of Desmond
26:45 Doss," please call, right now, 1 (800) 253-3000.
26:50 If, when you call, the line is busy, please do call again.
26:54 You can call 24 hours a day. If you'd like to write,
26:58 please write to: It Is Written, P.O. Box 6,
27:01 Chattanooga, Tennessee, 37401, and we will send you a free copy
27:06 if your address is within North America.
27:09 Or go to our website for a free download,
27:11 www.ItIsWritten.com. And please remember that
27:16 It Is Written is a faith-based ministry.
27:19 We are enabled to share the gospel of Jesus Christ globally
27:23 because of the support of people just like you.
27:25 To support It Is Written, please do call (800) 253-3000,
27:30 or you can write to the address on your screen, or visit us at
27:34 ItIsWritten.com. Again, to receive
27:38 "The Faith of Desmond Doss," 1 (800) 253-3000.
27:46 Thank you so much for joining me today.
27:48 I look forward to seeing you again next time.
27:50 Until then remember, it is written:
27:53 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word
27:57 that proceeds from the mouth of God.
28:01 [Music]


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Revised 2022-11-03