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Series Code: IIW
Program Code: IIW017139S
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00:00 [Music]
00:15 [Musicic] 00:20 JB: This is It Is Writteten. I'm John Bradshaw. 00:22 Thanks for joining me. We both kn that there are some things 00:25 in life that we are going to experience no matterer what. 00:29 And some of those expeences we wouldn't choose to experience 00:32 if we had a choice. But ny of them, we don't have a choice. 00:36 One of them is gef. Grief hurts, it's painful, and you're 00:42 going to expxperience sooner or later. That's just the wayife 00:46 goesBut what is grief, and how do we deal with grief, a and what 00:50 should a person do - --what could a person do, when grief strikes 00:54 clclose to home? Well, I'm blessed to have withe in the studio 00:57 toy a good friend, Mike Tucker. Pastor Mike Tucker w who's 01:01 thspeaker and director of Faith for Today, a Chrisistian 01:04 ministry. You may well have seen Pastor Tucker hosting Lifestyle 01:08 Magazine or leading out in one of his "Mad Abouout Marriage" 01:12 Seminars. . Mike Tucker, thanks for joining me today. 01:14 Mike Tucker: It is aoy to be here with you, John. Thank you. 01:17 JB: I'm going to start at t the beginning. What's grief? 01:20 How do wdefine that? 01:21 MT: Grief is an emotional, pshological, physical reaction 01:25 to any expererience of loss. It can be loss through death,oss 01:29 of a job, loss of a body part --ything else in your life 01:33 that is significant, there may bebe a grief response to it. 01:36 JB: Now, one of the reasons I'm speaking with you is because 01:38 you're a trained counselor. MT: Um-hmm. JB: A licensed marriage 01:42 therapist, family y expert. And you have some experience with 01:47 grief as well, and we're going to talk ababout that in just a 01:49 moment. Grief is just one of thosthings that everybody is 01:53 going to expernce. MT: Everyone. You don't get out of 01:54 life without grief. And most of yoyour viewers have already had 01:58 some experience with grief. To what degree? That varies 02:02 according to life experiences. But everyone gets it. Everyone 02:06 has it. Some people ink that Christians shouldn't grieve. 02:09 That's just a misnomer. You have to grieve. Eveveryone grieves. 02:12 JB: Now, there a certain things that you might ought 02:13 to do o when grief comes. MT: Yeah. JB: We'll talkbout 02:15 ththose soon. MT: Sure. JB: So before we expla it. 02:19 There's probably ways you n equip yourself 02:20 to deawith grief before it comes. MT: Um-hmm. 02:23 JB: Okay. MT: Yeah, especially if you see a loss 02:26 comingng, you can engage in what we call anticipato grief: 02:29 being willing to go ahead and experiencece those tears, and 02:32 trying to anticipate what life will be e like without them. But I 02:36 think beyond that is aatter of keeping relationships healthy, 02:39 and keeping yourlf personally health: physically fit, with 02:43 positive relationships and a positiveve faith. But having an 02:46 appropriate picture of the nature of GoGod, his personality, 02:50 his character --what he hass promised you, what he has not 02:53 promised you --w-will actually help prepare you for grief. 02:55 JB: Okay, now, so you can grieveve about different things. MT: Yeah 02:57 JB: I could, I could lose a chished possession. MT: Yes. 03:02 : I can grieve that. MT: Um-hmm. JB: Okay, what a are the 03:05 inapappropriate ways to deal with grief? What arthe grief 03:09 mistakes that people often make? MT: So people try to stuff it 03:12 or ignore it, act like it's not ere. They will deny it. Other 03:18 people will try to out-medicate it, out-drinit, something of 03:23 that n nature. Some people will try to outwork it.hey just 03:25 won't give expression to the pain by crying. They w won't allow 03:29 themselves to do those things. Those e all inappropriate 03:32 ways. other inappropriate way would be to build a shrinene to, 03:35 toto that which is lost. You know, sometimes peop build a shrine 03:39 in their home to a person who's diedand for years on, no one 03:43 can touch thatYou know, to do something like that temporarily 03:46 may be understandable. But w when you do this and it lasts for 03:49 years, that cabe another inappropriate way to deal with 03:52 it. But just a refusal to deal with the pain,n, to give 03:55 expression throu tears, through talking --those are all 03:58 inappropriate responses. JB: As a pastor I speak from time to 04:01 time with peopople who will tell me, "Oh, I'm doing fine." 04:03 : Yeah. JB: Or, or they'll tell me, "I'm not doingg 04:06 finene." I'll dig a little deeper and... MT: Um-m. 04:08 : ...you know, "It's been six weeks since my loveded one died, 04:12 and I find myself ststill weeping, and I just wish I was...." 04:16 That's just not realistic, is it? 04:17 MT: No, it's notThe average recovery time for a 04:19 signgnificant loss is one to two years, although u can grieve 04:21 actively for up to five years annot be pathological with 04:24 that grief. And even whehen we talk about recovery, that 04:27 doesn't mean tt you won't ever cry again. It doesn't mean you 04:30 won't miss that person aga. That will be a part of your 04:33 experience for the resest of your life, especially with a 04:35 significant loss. But it may mean that you comeme to the point 04:38 where e it's not the first thing on your mind every mning when 04:40 you wake up, and the l last thing you think about before you go to 04:43 bed, w when you finally get to that point of recoveryso that 04:46 you n function more normally. JB: I think it's importatant for 04:48 people to know what's normal... MTMT: Yeah. JB: ...what's 04:50 acceceptable, so that they don't think they have problem they 04:53 don't have. I remember asking mywife's grandmother --Grandma was 05:00 around 80 athe time, and I discovered that she'd had a baby 05:05 girlShe raised three or four boys. I should know whetheher it's 05:09 threree or four, shouldn't I? MT: [Laughs] JB: Andhe gave birth 05:12 to a little girl who died very, ve young, as an infant. And so 05:16 this loss that s'd experience had been about 60 years before, 05:21 55 to 60 years befor And I said to her, "Grandma, you had a 05:26 daughterer. I never knew that." And she said, "Yes, -" and 05:31 just from out t of nowhere, her voice choked and tears cam 05:34 MT: Yeahyes. JB: Fifty-five to sixty years later, she wasas 05:38 grieving a loss. MT: Um-hmm. JB: That's n normal, isn't it? 05:40 : Yes, it is normal. There's nothing wrong with thahat. Because 05:43 this is an impactful experience foyour life. You never get 05:47 over, truly, the loss. You, you may be more comfortable with it; 05:54 over this loss for the rest of you may be able to funion again. But you may have tears your life. JB:B: Let's say 05:57 somedy is a secretary working in an office situation. . MT: Yeah 06:00 JBJB: Well, it doesn't have to be a secretary. Icould be a 06:02 departmental director. Or a guyy works in a factory. 06:05 MT: Uh-huhuh. JB: So you're surrounded by 06:07 people. You've got to go backk to life. You're putting in your 06:09 eight to ten hours a dayay. MT: Um-hmm. 06:11 JB: But grieis just all over you, and grief begs expression. 06:18 at's the right thing for people to do? 06:20 MT: Well, the righght thing for you to do if you're the person 06:22 experiencing this is to recognizize that your tears are 06:25 going to come, and that's okay. d when they come, don't make 06:27 an apology for them. Just alloww it to happen. And if the people 06:31 around you a savvy and they are, they are understanding, 06:34 then they're goingo accept that, and it's going to be 06:36 normal. So I would say, make sure that you give y yourself 06:40 ample room for, for mistakes. You u make sure you double-check 06:44 your work. Take frequentnt breaks if possible. Um, and then don't 06:48 be afraid to give expression to the pain. Don't be afraid to 06:51 cry, and don't be afraid to tell the stories, because that's all 06:54 a part of the process. JB:o, to experience grief and to 06:59 internalize grief, to express grief, is all apprpropriate and, 07:03 and fine. MT: It is. JB: But when's a pern going too far? 07:06 I know, this m, it's going to differ from person to person. 07:11 MT: It will. JB: And, uh, youu get the very unthinking people 07:14 who say, "Are you not over tt already? It's been six months." 07:17 MT: Yeah. JB: That's theast thing you want to say to a 07:20 person. When is expresng grief become --when does that become 07:23 too much? MT: To give a timeline or a specific ananswer to that is 07:27 difficult. But there comes a titime when grief no longer 07:29 becomemes an expression of your pain, but becomes a nument to 07:32 self-pity. Somimes we can like the negative attention we get 07:36 from the expression of pain.nd again, that may not happen the 07:39 first year. It may not happen until after that. But there 07:43 comes a time when you realize that you, you'rere doing nothing 07:46 but grieving. And you're t telling the stories; you're crying with 07:49 every event. Erything becomes about your loss. That becomes 07:52 very selfish and it becomes ther myopic. And so, to learn 07:56 that there are appropriate times to ge expression to this, and 07:59 there comes the time when you actually havave to say goodbye to 08:02 the relationship that used to be, d withdraw that emotional 08:05 energy, and no longer make thi a monument to you and to your 08:09 selflf-pity, but, instead, begin to celebrate the le that was, 08:13 and celebrate the things that yohad. Again, that's going to 08:16 vary forvery person, but there does come a time when it's's 08:19 appropriate to dthat. JB: Now, you're speaking to this 08:22 subjbject... MT: Yes. JB: ...from first-hand expernce. 08:24 MT: Absolutely. JB: We're gogoing to talk about that in just a 08:27 mont. More with Pastor Mike Tucker and grief when n we 08:31 come back. Don't go away. 08:38 Grief. Sadly, it's ainevitable part of life. There's no 08:42 escaping loss in this woworld and the pain that comes along 08:45 with it. Grief can be disabling, intense andebilitating. So 08:49 make sure yoyou get your free copy of "Coping with Grief"y 08:51 John Bradsha There is a way through life's 08:55 toughest times. Learn how you or someone yoyou care about can cope 08:58 with grief. Discover principles that wilill show you how to return 09:02 to a life full of jojoy and hope. Please, don't let grief be any 09:06 more d difficult than it has to be. When the burde of loss 09:09 seem to be more than you can handle, there is a w way you can 09:12 cope with grief. To recee the book "Coping with Grief," call 09:15 right now 1-800-25253-3000. There's absolutely no cost or 09:20 obligation, and our lineare open 24 hours a day. If the 09:24 lines are busy, please t try again. We'll send 09:27 "Coping with Gririef" free to any address in North America. Ca 09:30 1-800-253-3-3000, or you can write to us at It Is Written 09:35 P O Box 6, Chattanooga,TN, 37401. To downloload a free 09:41 electronic version of "Copining with Grief," please visit us 09:44 online at ItIsWrittecom. To get your free copy of 09:48 "Coping with Grief," call right now, 1-800-253-3000. 09:53 JB: : It Is Written is a faith - based ministry, d your 09:56 suort makes it possible for us to share God's good d news with 10:00 thworld. Your tax-deductible gift can be sent to the e address 10:03 on your screen, or through our website atat ItIsWritten.com. 10:07 Thank you for your conontinued prayerful support. 10:10 [Music] 10:13 JB: This is ItIt Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw. Thanks for 10:16 joining me today. My g guest is Pastor Mike Tucker from 10:19 Faith for Today. Mike, we've been talking for a a few moments 10:23 about ief. We alluded to your personal experience with g grief. 10:27 MT: Um-h. JB: Tell me more about that. 10:28 MT: Recently I've had thee biggest loss of my life. 10:31 My wifof forty years, Gayle Tucker, passed away. You k know, 10:37 we were partners in ministry. Uhwe had worked together as 10:41 pastors and in telelevision ministry for forty years. 10:44 Everything I did w intricately involved with her. JB: It wasn't 10:51 really a matr of Mike Tucker. Gayle. MT: Mike and Gayle. JB: Mike and Gayle. . Mike and Gayle. MT: No. JB: It was Mike and 10:53 MT: Mike and Gayle. Everything we did. Televivision, marriage 10:56 seminars, pastoral ministries. She was a pastor as well. So 10:59 everaspect of my life was intricately involved with h her. 11:02 She was myery best friend. We were traveling all over the, t the 11:06 world dodoing marriage seminars, among other things. Anwe were 11:09 in Vancouver, British Columbia, wh her right hand started to 11:12 go n numb. She thought she had slept on it wrong.ut by 11:16 Saturday afterernoon when we were doing a marriage presentatn, 11:19 her ght hand would work so poorly that she had to hold d the 11:22 microphone in her left hand for threand a half hours making 11:24 the presentation, because shee knew it would fall to the floor 11:26 if she held it in the right. Isaid, "This is wrong, we got, 11:29 I've got to get you to the hospital." Shehe said, "Wait till 11:31 we get back in the country, tomorrow," whi would be March 11:33 6. I said, "Okay." So we flew Dallas, and when we landed, I 11:38 said, "Now, which hospital do you want mto take you to, 11:40 because you're not going home." And so shehe told me which 11:43 hospital, I took her therere, and immediately they diagnosed 11:46 strokes. When is insane to me, because the woman n was so active. 11:50 She was not overweight, nocholesterol. I mean, no risk 11:53 factoror stroke. JB: The picture of health. 11:55 MT: Absolutely. She played vovolleyball every week with a 11:58 group of ladies she'e'd play volleyball with for over 20 12:00 years. And it took another week and a half o of testing to figure 12:03 out t that she had stage four pancreatic cancer at had 12:07 already metastasized to her liver. And the liverer, one of the 12:11 side effects of liver r cancer, can be a condition they call 12:14 "sticky blood," which ans it was creating blood clots in her 12:17 body, and when thosese broke apart it went to the brain, and that's 12:19 where the strokes came from. Thehe stroke was a symptom. She was 12:22 going to die of pancreatic canc. JB: Now, if you don't 12:26 mindnd. MT: Please. JB: She was going to die. MTYes. JB: 12:29 Pancreic cancer typically is a one-way street. MT: Yes, i it is. 12:33 JB: But... MT: Yeah. JB: Peopl can be healed. MT: Yes. JB: God 12:37 is a great God. MTYes. JB: You know God well. MT: Absolutely. 12:40 JB: You have for many years. MT:T: Um-hmm. JB: But you felt then 12:43 --how did you process that? Were you living on hope, were praying 12:46 foher to be healed, or how quickly did you get to 12:49 resignation, I think we're going to losher? MT: You know, I, I 12:53 was realistic enough to realize that uess God performed a 12:56 miracle, Ias going to lose my wife. And she knew that as welell. 13:00 I've worked as a chaain in hospitals for years. I've done, 13:04 I've seen enough of this. I've worked w with hospice patients. I 13:07 know, and she knew as well, that unlessod intervened, we were 13:11 going to lose her. And she was ready. She was, she was okay 13:15 with that. She wanted to b healed. We had an anointing 13:17 service, as is called for in Jamemes. And we, we had a prayer 13:22 for healing, believing fully that God cld heal her. Because 13:24 I, like you, have seen miraculous healingng. JB: Sure 13:27 And so I knew that God was capable. But Ilso know, and 13:31 knew, that God might say no. At least, rig now. Every prayer 13:35 for heing is answered yes. Sometimes immediately. 13:38 Sometimes over t time with prayer and medicine and surgery. d 13:41 sometimes thhealing will take place resurrection. 13:44 JBThat's right. MT: We asked for option 13:45 A or B, but we'r're willing to accept option C. 13:49 And so yes, I knew that this was a realal 13:52 possibility,y, and she did too. So we prepared for the worswhile 13:55 hoping for the best. JB: You said Gayle w was okay with that. 13:58 MT: Ye. JB: Tell me, if you wouldn't mind, what she wewent 14:03 through. There's your wifefe of 40 years, someone--everyone who 14:07 knew her, loved r. So you weren't alone in that. MT: Yeah. 14:11 JB: How does a person take that kind of f news? Gayle at stage 4 14:14 pancncreatic cancer. It's metastasized. We know e 14:17 chances are about this good. M Yeah, yeah. JB: How does a 14:20 person deal with that? MT: Youou know, obviously it was a big 14:22 blow ther. And it took her a while to just kind of digegest 14:26 this. And when she began to realize , I asked her, "Are 14:30 you angry? Are you frighted?" She said, "No." She said, "I've 14:33 hasixty years of immaculate health." And she had. . I mean, 14:36 she wavibrate and healthy and active. And she said, "S"Some 14:40 peopleever get a day. I've had forty years of a wonderfrful 14:44 marriage, and some people never know that. I I've had over forty 14:46 years of exciting ministstry, fulfilling ministry. I've got 14:49 children and grandchildrennd extended family and friends. And 14:52 someme people never know any of that. For me to angry that 14:55 thatat only lasted sixty years instead of eighty ems to be 14:58 somewhat ungrateful, and I'm not going to be ungrateful to my 15:02 Lo. I just thank him for what I've had." JB: Amen.n. MT: That 15:05 s her attitude. JB: Wow. MT: And she got that attititude early 15:07 on. She never expericed fear, because she knew her heart was 15:11 righght with Jesus. She never experienced anger,ecause she 15:14 was gratefeful for what she'd had. And amazingly, I had aeady had 15:18 the e same thoughts --which is strange for me, becae, 15:21 trutully, anger has always been my go-to emotion. Butut I'd 15:24 gone through a preous loss, a financial and a career loss, at 15:28 an early point. We lost our hoe. We lost our savings. I 15:31 thought I'd lost my career. I thought it was allll over. And I 15:34 hadn done anything. And my response was anger. Becaususe at 15:37 the time I I was giving 30 percent of my gross income tthe 15:40 chururch. I was volunteering as a pastor while worng in private 15:43 business. All sorts of exciting things were happppening with the 15:46 church. It w growing like crazy. And my anger was, "God, 15:49 what did you wt? Forty percent? I don't get it." I 15:52 thought because of my hard labor, my gerosity, the 15:56 success of the ministry,y, that God owed me better than what he 15:59 gave me. And when I realized at anger comes when we think 16:03 we're getting leless from God than what he owes us, then I begato 16:07 realize that I had sinned in my life by expeing something from 16:10 Gohe'd never promised. I confessed that to him, andnd he 16:14 rgave me. And I promised, by God's grace, I wouldld make sure 16:17 my lived theology would d be congruent with my expressed or 16:24 my preached theology. And that happenedSo that when Gayle got 16:28 sick, I realized, I've had a blessising that was beyond what 16:31 most people ever experience. :So you weren't experiencing 16:34 anger eieither. MT: No anger either. In fact, it's be six 16:36 months since her death, and I'm ststill not angry. JB: Forty years 16:39 of marriage. MT: Yeah. JB: A catarophic loss. MT: Yes. 16:43 JB: No anger. . MT: No anger. There's incredible pain. JB:Su 16:47 There's credible emptiness and loneliness. There's, there's's, I 16:52 cry at unexpected times. But no ger. Because God has not 16:55 shortchanged me one iota. He has giveven me more than what he ever 16:59 promised me. And so since he has giveven me more than what he 17:03 promised, I I have no reason for anger, because most peopleever 17:06 exrience what I've had. I celebrate what I've had. I I miss 17:11 what I've had.ut I'm not angry with God. JB: There's more. 17:14 We're going toto come back to the story we began in just a ment. 17:17 Pastor Mike Tucker, we're deing today with grief 17:21 --something we all must experience, and sosomething that, 17:24 if it hasn't come nenear you, it will. Today's program very 17:28 important. We'll be back with more ijust a moment. 17:32 "Every Worord" is a one-minute, Bible-based daily devoonal 17:35 presented by Pastor John Bradshaw andnd designed especially 17:38 for busy people like you. Recieve a a daily spiritual boost. 17:42 Watch "Every Word." 17:45 [Music] 17:50 JB: It's's an enormous shame when 17:51 people lose hope in God. But ithappens. And it's happened to 17:54 some oututstanding people. Think about John the Bapti and his 17:57 tempmporary discouragement. The cousin of Jesus d boldly 18:01 proclaimeded, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away t sin of 18:04 the e world." But one day he sent some of his diiples to ask 18:07 Jesus, "Are you the coming one, or do weook for another?" 18:11 That's Matththew 11, verse 3. John had been convinced. But w he's 18:15 in p prison, and Jesus, who he believed to be theessiah, 18:18 hadn't got the Romans out of rael, and hadn't got John out 18:21 of prison. John knew Jesus was the Messiah, but he let go of 18:26 faith and started to make judgments by what he c could see. 18:30 John couldn't see too well. Jesus was the ssiah, still is. 18:33 And our difficult circumstances wot ever change that. I'm John 18:38 Bradshaw for It Is Written. Let's live t today by every word." 18:45 [Music] 18:46 JB: Thanks for joining me toy on It Is Written. I'm 18:48 John B Bradshaw. My guest today, from Faith for Tod, Pastor 18:52 Mike Tucke Mike, we're talking about your own experience wiwith 18:55 grief. MT:m-hmm. JB: A couple of moments ago you shared hohow 18:58 Gayle was diagnosed with sge 4 pancreatic cancer. We got about 19:03 to the place where she was accepting g of this diagnosis and 19:07 ready for whatever God had for her. So what happened next? 19:10 MT: Well, you know, we got the diagnosis s March 16 of 2016. 19:15 First symptoms March 3 to March 6,6, and then the diagnosis March 19:19 16. And so we began to exami our options. We were praying for 19:28 hehealing. But she wanted to be Started with home healthth, and eventually went to hospice when home. And so wtook her home. 19:31 it was appropria. But basically, she wanted to get as 19:34 strong as she could d and enjoy the time she had with her 19:36 family. So we started d calling in family members. We had to limit 19:41 the number of friend visits because we have so many in the 19:43 area, and it was draining forr her. JB: Sure. MT: And so, so 19:46 many I wanted to bring in, b I couldn't. But she just started 19:50 spending her days making sure that things were right between 19:53 her and the Lord, and that she spent as much timeme with her 19:55 children and grandchildren and siblingsnd her mother as 19:59 possible. And so there were days of joy and days of laughter. And 20:03 she entered ininto a coma on April 8, and then passed away Apl 10 20:09 She was, her daughters were by h side. I was with, with 20:13 her. One of the, the sisters werere with her. She passed 20:17 peacefully while we were praying wi her and touching her and 20:19 loving on he And she fell asleep in Jesus on April 10 in 20:23 the afternoooon, about 5:47 p.m. JB: Now, the first sympts. 20:30 MT: Yeah. JB: March 3. MT: March 3, when her hand went 20:34 numb. JB: And then gooye. MT: April 10. JB: Six weeks. 20:38 MT: Yeah. JB: There are couple of 20:42 questions I cod ask at once. One is, that's really quick. 20:47 MT: Very quick. JB: From having yo ministry 20:48 partner, your life partner, you're traveling t together, 20:50 you're doing God's work. A she's, evidently, in full 20:53 health. MT: Full health. JB: Six wes later she's gone. 20:56 MTMT: Yeah. JB: At the same time, Mike, that's n quick. Quick is 21:00 hit by a bus. MT: Yeah, yeah.. JB: That's quick. MT: Yeah. 21:03 JB: So I wonder if you can talkwith me about, about the 21:06 emotions that you experience and how you dealt with, or how 21:09 you're dealing with... MT: Um-h. 21:11 JB: ...uh, l losing a perfectly health wife, just like tt. 21:15 Where e does that take you? How do you wrestle withhat? 21:19 MTI wanted to be as strong as I could 21:20 around her. But I, I wept like crazy. Just trying to get my 21:24 nd around, anticipating what it was going to be likike without 21:27 her, and just t accepting the reality that unless Jesus 21:30 interven, I was going to lose her. The things that I've bebeen 21:32 trying to do is, is to thi. When the thoughts come, I think 21:36 them fully. I weep when the,e, when the tears come. I talk 21:40 about it, I, I s share my feelings with other people. I write aut 21:44 it. , I pray about it. Those things are helpful. The e other 21:49 ththing I do is I walk. When I'm home, I walk anyere from eight 21:51 to tlve miles a day. Those are prayer time for me, anand it's 21:55 thinking time. It gives mehe opportunity to focus on nothing 21:58 more than, than my loss and my Goand, and my prayer time. And 22:02 those things have heed me. Talking with my family, talking 22:09 just the stories of her loss and with friends, tellining the stories over and over again. Not the death, b but the stories of 22:12 r life together. JB: Sure. MT: Of meeting her, the e first date, 22:16 you kn, and the proposal. Telling those stories over a and 22:20 over again are important to me. And d then the stories of ministry 22:22 together, the different places we've be, the decisions for 22:26 Christ we've witnesssses. Those are the things that are helping 22:29 me. And then being close to my family, ju holding onto my 22:32 daughters, my grandchildren, and helplping them grieve as well. 22:35 Those are the activities. But before Gayle died,d, she wrote a 22:39 letter to each of ouchildren and to our two grandchildren. It 22:43 was a letter to be g given to them about six weeks after the death. 22:46 By wririte I mean she dictated and I had to type, becse her hand 22:49 didn't work k and she had lost her sight by the end. And afr she 22:52 finished that, she said, "I need to write a letetter to you." I 22:54 said, "Well, we have no one to dictate that to. I I mean, 22:57 basically, youou're stuck. And what are you going to say to m 22:59 you haven't said every dayor forty years anyway?" She said, 23:02 "Y may be right." I said, "So, for argument's sake, w what would 23:04 you say?" She said, "The's nothing to regret. We had a 23:08 great life together. Don't, dodon't beat yourself up for any 23:11 mistakes. No regrets. That's number one."nd number two, she 23:14 said, "Live our life." That's what shehe wanted for me. Our life 23:18 has been faith, family and ministstry. That's who we are, 23:25 that's what we've done. JB: I want t to ask you this. No 23:27 regrets. MT: Yeah. JB: Easy to sa MT: Oh, yeah. JB: Easy to 23:30 say, no regrets. Hey, Mike, when I'm m gone, have no regrets. 23:34 MTYeah. JB: Really? MT: Yeah. JB: Do you have any y regrets? 23:36 MT: I really don't. You know, I've made miststakes. JB: Sure. 23:39 MT: I haven't bebeen the perfect husband. But every time I thin 23:42 of those things, I remember what she saidid. No regrets. That means 23:45 that she had forgiven meor any mistake, just as I've forgiven 23:47 her. JB: I think it's important to be le to look back on 23:49 mistakes made... MT: Yeah. JB: ...withihin the context. We're 23:52 human,n, we're going to make mistakes. MT: Yeah, absotely. 23:54 She had an amazing memory.he could forget every mistake I 23:57 ever mad So why would I beat myself up over something thahat 24:00 she had forgiven me for? G has forgiven me, and he says he 24:04 rembers my sins no more. So for me to remember it anand bring 24:07 it useems foolhardy. JB: What I believe is that even w when you 24:10 ha some kind of catastrophe in your life, if you're a a believer 24:14 in God, you n still see God's hand. MT: Yeah. JB: Right? Iss 24:18 that right? MT: Yeah. JB: Did yoyou see God's hand through this 24:20 process.s. MT: Yes, I did. JB: How do you see God's hanin what's 24:24 a dister? MT: Yeah. The first place I see it is in thehe way she 24:28 died. She died as she lived. And whwhen people saw the congruence 24:32 between what she lived and how shdied, they were brought to 24:36 faith. Another way tt I see this is that, even though we've 24:39 had a close-knit family, this has broughght us even closer 24:42 together. My daughters and I are tight. And I, I I don't make 24:46 decisions withouthem. But another thing is that as I've 24:49 given expression to mymy pain. I've written about it. I've 24:52 shared it openly from ththe pulpit. And when they see me 24:55 doing this, it gives them courage and gives themem hope. 24:58 Those arsome of the, just a few of the ways that I see Godod's 25:02 hand i in this. JB: We just have a moment. Someone'experiencing 25:06 grief... MT: Yeah. JB: ...and it just seems like e the end. 25:11 MT: Yeah. JB: Now, very obviously, onean go on, 25:16 because for x thousand years of human history people have... 25:18 MT: We've e done so. JB: ...been going on. Yeah. 25:19 MT: We've done so. JB: What do you sa 25:20 to that person who's grieving, uh, anand just sees 25:25 blackness ahead? How can that peperson go on? MT: First of all, 25:29 this won't last forever.t will seem like it. But the darkest 25:33 part of it will not t last forever. God has promised to be 25:36 a very p present help in this time, even though at tes he 25:38 seems even further away because of youour pain. That's normal. 25:42 He's promised to get you through thisHe will. JB: The Bible 25:45 promises us, in Psalm 30 and rse 5, "Weeping may endure for 25:51 a night, butoy comes in the morning." Is that your 25:58 experience? MT: It is. JB: Is still joy. It, it comes now in moments, andnd at times I see a there joy? M Yes, there's 26:03 little bit more of it. I see itin my grandchildren; they're 3 26:05 and 5, and when they want to come play with Papa. They miss 26:09 Grammilike crazy and they cry, but they like to play withth Papa, 26:12 and I see the joy of life in their eyes. That's's joy for me. 26:17 When I preach and I see people respond to a m message, that's joy 26:20 to me. When they respond to the telesion programs, I have joy 26:23 ththere. I have joy with my daughters. There's sll joy in 26:26 life. It's mitigated with th pain, but there's still joy. And 26:31 I knowhat God has even more joy for me in the future.. 26:34 Eventualally there'll be more. JB: Pastor Mike Tuckerthis has 26:37 been a big deal. Thanks for jojoining me today. 26:39 MT: My pasure. JB: Truly appreciate it. Thanks. 26:41 Let's pray together. MT: : Sure. JB: Let's pray. 26:44 Our Father in heaven, wewe're going to be honest with you 26:45 and tell you, weish there was no such thing 26:47 as grief. We don't like loss. Human ings weren't created to 26:52 grieve. When youou created this earth, death wasn't on your 26:56 agenda. iano in background] JB: But an enemy hath done thihis. 27:00 We thank you today that the Biblble encourages us, "Greater is 27:04 he that is in you than he that isn the world." And so we will 27:08 take our strength in you and trtrust that, when life's 27:11 difficult circumstances come, you'll get us through; that 27:16 weeping g may endure for a night, but joy comes in t morning. 27:20 ank you, Lord, for allowing Mike to be here today y and share 27:22 his experienence. Continue to bless him and use him in a 27:25 powerful w to offer hope, and hope in Christ to many. Andd 27:30 bless us. Friend, if you'r're going through a difficult 27:32 experience now, would yoyield your heart to Jesus? Just pray, 27:37 "Lord, take my heart and make e it yours." Let that be your prayer. 27:41 Lord Jesus, take mhand. Give me your peace. Give me faith and 27:46 trt in you always. Lord, we thank you for answerining our 27:50 prprayer and keeping us close to you. In Jesus'ame, Amen. 27:56 Thanks for joining mtoday. I'm looking to seeing you again next 27:59 time. Until then, , remember, "It is written, 'Man shall not liv 28:04 by bread alone, , but by every word that proceeds from the 28:09 mouth of God.'" 28:09 [Music] |
Revised 2021-07-15