Participants:
Series Code: IIW
Program Code: IIW018172S
|
00:20 >>John Bradshaw: This is It Is Written.
00:21 I'm John Bradshaw. 00:22 Thanks for joining me. 00:24 Everybody wants it. 00:26 I think the truth is most everybody needs it. 00:28 And when people get it, 00:29 it seems that what they want next is more. 00:34 It seems as though we can never be satisfied 00:36 with the amount of money that we have. 00:38 And that might just be a problem. 00:41 We read in the Bible that God is willing to bless His people, 00:44 but sometimes it can be that those blessings 00:48 are allowed to become curses. 00:50 Let me read to you from Matthew chapter 19 where Jesus shared 00:55 one of the most curious verses in all of the Bible. 00:58 Matthew 19 and verse 24, He said, 01:02 "And again I say to you, 01:04 it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle 01:08 than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 01:13 Now, that's a fascinating verse. 01:15 To talk with me about that and other aspects of the subject, 01:19 I'm glad to welcome my special guest 01:20 from Queensland, Australia: Julian Archer. 01:22 Julian, thanks for joining me. 01:24 >>Julian Archer: Thank you, John. Great to be here. 01:25 >>John: Julian, as an international speaker 01:27 and as an author, you speak a lot about money. 01:29 And one of the things that you've discovered 01:31 in your studies and in your own experience is this: 01:34 It seems that as people's prosperity increases, 01:40 that person's commitment to God can decrease. 01:44 Let's talk about that. Where would we begin? 01:46 >>Julian: Yeah, it's a bit like a teeter-totter, 01:49 or a see-saw, isn't it? 01:50 One goes up; the other goes down. 01:52 It doesn't have to. 01:53 It'd be great if it didn't, but it, it often does. 01:56 >>John: So can we talk about cases, 01:58 chapter and verse, empirical data? 02:00 I, I recently read an article produced 02:02 by a Canadian news agency that said as nations prosper, 02:05 religion diminishes. 02:07 So just how true is it? 02:10 I think a lot of us have met rich people who, 02:13 who feel like they have no needs and don't even need God. 02:16 Of course, we're not going to say that that applies 02:19 to all wealthy people. 02:20 >>Julian: Sure. 02:21 >>John: But, but how real is this? How does it happen? 02:24 And eventually we'll get around to talking about 02:25 what a person can do about it. 02:26 >>Julian: Yeah, look, it's very real. It's very real. 02:28 The, the data has been coming out for many years. 02:31 Uh, Credit Suisse, 02:33 a very respected financial services agency 02:35 out of Switzerland, has a lot of data on it. 02:37 The Gallup poll, one of the most respected research agencies 02:40 in the world, uh, as they study around the world, 02:43 they find that the richest nations-- 02:47 so, not necessarily the biggest or, or the highest GDPs 02:51 or whatever--but those nations where the adults 02:53 in those nations actually have the highest private wealth, 02:57 those nations are the ones who are the least religious. 03:01 >>John: So what nations are they? 03:02 >>Julian: We're looking at, uh, Switzerland, 03:04 uh, Australia, New Zealand, 03:06 Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the UK, even the US. 03:10 They're the nations that are showing 03:12 this teeter-totter issue. 03:14 And those nations, interestingly enough, 03:17 are primarily founded on Christian principles. 03:20 >>John: Yeah, historically we'd refer to those-- 03:21 >>Julian: That's right. 03:22 >>John: ...as Christian nations-- 03:23 >>Julian: Yeah. 03:24 >>John: ...whether that label is accurate or not, 03:25 but these are places where Christianity has flourished. 03:27 >>Julian: That's right. 03:29 >>John: So in the past there was a strong Christian ethic. 03:31 Now there's a strong secular ethic, 03:33 a strong emphasis on wealth, 03:35 and you're saying that the data shows that these countries 03:38 where adults are earning the most, 03:41 that's where people are less or least committed to God. 03:45 >>Julian: That's right. 03:46 So, if you go to a nation like my home nation, 03:49 and Gallup poll comes in with their survey-- 03:51 they're surveying 200 nations-- 03:53 they get to Australia and they say--one of the questions: 03:56 "Is religion an important part of your daily life?" 03:59 Okay, simple question, yes or no: 04:01 "Is religion an important part of your daily life?" 04:04 Two-thirds, 67 percent of Australians say, 04:07 "No, religion is not important in my daily life." 04:10 You go across to somewhere like Sweden or Norway-- 04:12 you're looking at over 80 percent of people saying, 04:15 "No, religion's not important in my daily life." 04:17 And so it's a, 04:18 it's a significant teeter-totter situation. 04:21 And those nations, those top 10 richest nations, 04:24 were all founded on Christian laws, Christian principles; 04:28 they used to be, as you say, Christian nations. 04:30 >>John: Are we calling this correlation or causation? 04:32 Is this, is this just a coincidence? 04:34 >>Julian: Yeah. Look, according to the data, no. 04:37 If you get the statisticians on to the data, and they, 04:40 they will say, you know, we'll take it down 04:42 to a certain coefficient and all the rest of it-- 04:44 they say this is rock-solid. 04:46 It's, this is a statistically solid analysis that, 04:50 as a nation's wealth increases, it has a direct impact 04:53 on the religiosity of the people in that nation. 04:55 >>John: So then, one would see this as a red flag, I think. 05:02 Before we go any further, 05:04 are we saying that it's wrong or bad to be wealthy? 05:07 >>Julian: No, no, not at all. 05:08 >>John: So wealth is okay? 05:10 >>Julian: Yes. 05:11 >>John: What if you're filthy rich? Is that okay? 05:13 >>Julian: It's okay. There's no problem with that. 05:16 >>John: All right. 05:16 >>Julian: Even from a Christian, 05:17 even from a biblical point of view, 05:19 there is nothing wrong with that. 05:20 >>John: For example? 05:21 >>Julian: Uh, Job, Abraham, you know, 05:24 guys who had a lot. 05:24 >>John: Solomon. 05:25 >>Julian: Solomon. 05:26 >>John: King David. 05:27 >>Julian: Classic example. Yeah, that's right. 05:28 But we must remember, though, that for Abraham, 05:31 God said to him, He said, 05:32 "I will bless you to be a blessing." 05:35 Okay? So these guys didn't, 05:37 they didn't have masses stored up for themselves; 05:39 they had a lot of money going through them, 05:42 and God was using them to bless other people. 05:44 So there's, there are some provisos. 05:46 >>John: Okay, so it's okay to be wealthy? 05:48 >>Julian: Yes. 05:48 >>John: But Jesus said, 05:51 "It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle 05:54 than for a rich person to enter into heaven." 05:56 Now, I've heard people say that this is merely symbolic; 06:00 Jesus was just making a point. 06:02 What do you think? 06:03 >>Julian: If He was just making a point, 06:06 it's a point that is very solidly backed up today 06:09 in the data. [laughs] 06:10 So, so it was a pretty good point. 06:13 [laughs] 06:14 So, uh, even--you know, you go to Hinduism-- 06:16 you've got Mahatma Gandhi, 06:17 and he says that once financial stability is assured, 06:21 spiritual bankruptcy is also assured. 06:24 Okay, so this isn't just a Christian thing; 06:25 this is, this is, 06:26 this is human nature that, as our affluence goes up, 06:30 we tend to become very self-reliant 06:33 and think less of God or relying on God or needing God. 06:38 >>John: So why do you think that is? 06:40 >>Julian: I think the, the blessings that God gives us-- 06:44 because He wants to, He wants to bless us-- 06:47 uh, they are there for us to, to share. 06:51 If we put a dam, a wall on the dam and stop the, the flow, 06:56 or even severely limit the flow-- 06:58 you know, still let some out-- 07:00 but, you know, I need to keep building mine bigger and bigger. 07:03 Uh, then that's where it starts to mess with us. 07:05 And what, what happens, to illustrate it, 07:07 is the inside of my heart, for example, 07:09 when, when I was going through this, this situation, 07:12 the inside of my heart was being filled up 07:15 with the blessings-- material blessings. 07:18 And I was so busy maintaining them, 07:22 insuring them, trying to make them grow, 07:24 trying to, trying to ensure that nobody stole them, 07:28 or whatever it was. 07:29 They took so much of my time and energy 07:32 that I simply didn't have the time and energy for God anymore. 07:33 >>John: I think it's worth pointing out here 07:35 you've alluded to the fact 07:36 that you've been a very successful business person. 07:38 Uh, and I'd like you to take a moment to talk 07:41 about the deleterious effect that had on your spiritual walk, 07:44 to the extent you wrote a book called 07:47 "Help! I've Been Blessed!" 07:49 Which is interesting because in Christian circles, 07:51 again and again and again people are saying, 07:52 "Got to do everything we can to get God's blessing," 07:54 and they're measuring blessing by dollars and cents 07:56 and possessions and cars and houses and jet aircraft 07:59 and so forth. 08:00 So you've been through this. 08:01 Walk us through some of this, 08:03 to, to the place where you had to write about this, 08:05 calling the book "Help! I've Been Blessed!" 08:07 >>Julian: Yeah. 08:09 Yeah, there is a lot of material out there 08:10 that says how to be blessed-- "God wants you to be rich"-- 08:13 you know, all this sort of stuff. 08:15 And I have no question 08:16 the Bible says that God wants to bless us--we're His children. 08:19 >>John: But does God want us to be rich? 08:21 >>Julian: God doesn't mind whether we're rich or otherwise. 08:24 From, from Scripture, 08:25 um, God has very poor followers who love Him; 08:28 God has very rich followers who love Him. 08:30 The challenge is--and this is in my own experience-- 08:35 as I became more and more focused and distracted 08:38 on those blessings, 08:40 then I had less and less time, 08:43 and ultimately less and less interest 08:46 in spending time with God. 08:47 Now, during that whole period, 08:49 this was something going on in my heart. 08:51 No one knew; no one could see this. 08:52 I was still as religious as anybody else at church, 08:57 you know, supporting all these different programs, 09:00 speaking from the front, all this sort of stuff. 09:02 But in my heart--and this is, this is where the battle was-- 09:05 in my heart I knew that I was lost. 09:08 I knew that I was not in a saving relationship with Jesus, 09:11 and I knew what the cause was. 09:13 >>John: The cause was--put a fine point on it. What was it? 09:16 >>Julian: I could say it was His blessings, 09:19 but it wasn't. 09:20 It was my response to His blessings. 09:22 >>John: Okay. 09:23 >>Julian: And I-- God had blessed me, 09:25 and I had got distracted by those blessings, 09:26 and I had to try and sort that out, 09:29 and that's where the book came from. 09:31 It wasn't meant to be a book. 09:32 It was my own journaling of everything I could find 09:36 in Scripture about my, my battle, 09:39 this faith versus finance battle that I was, that I was in. 09:42 And then it ended up becoming a book. 09:44 But I had to work it out because it was messing with my head. 09:47 It was, it was really messing with me. 09:50 You know, Jesus says, 09:52 "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world 09:54 and lose his soul?" 09:57 Very few people will know that you're in that situation. 10:00 But in your heart, where nobody else can see, you know, 10:03 and you go, "You know what, 10:04 yeah, I'm sort of gaining the whole world here, 10:05 and I know I'm losing my soul. 10:07 I've got to do something about this." 10:08 >>John: So you think there are many wealthy people today 10:11 who are having this battle? 10:12 >>Julian: You know, when it was happening, 10:14 I thought I was the only one. 10:16 I, I seriously thought I was the only one-- 10:17 because we don't discuss it. 10:18 It's, it's a conversation that is just under the table. 10:21 Because we like to, like the disciples, 10:24 you know, when the rich young ruler came along, 10:26 and Jesus basically said, 10:28 "Look, buddy, you're not going to get into heaven 10:29 unless you sort a few of these things out." 10:31 The disciple says, 10:32 "Whoa, if he can't be saved, who can be saved?" 10:35 You know, because he was rich; 10:36 he was respected; he was blessed; 10:39 he was a leader, you know, all these different things. 10:41 And they're like, 10:42 "Well, if they're not gonna get into heaven, 10:43 who can get into heaven?" 10:45 And so we just don't discuss it because the fact is, 10:49 as I've learnt over the years as I've traveled the world, 10:51 talking to people in a whole lot of different places 10:53 and a whole lot of different lounge rooms, I might say-- 10:55 very wealthy lounge rooms-- 10:56 uh, a lot of people struggle with it. 10:59 They, they're sitting there, wondering, 11:01 how can I be saved when I have such a focus on wealth 11:04 that I'm not really letting anybody see? 11:06 >>John: Isn't it interesting that many, many, 11:08 many average people-- 11:10 and I guess I mean average financially people-- 11:13 really believe that if they only had a ton of money, 11:16 life would be great, and all their problems would be gone? 11:20 You're gonna say, "Not necessarily the case." 11:22 It sounds like you're saying. "Be careful what you wish for." 11:25 >>Julian: Yeah. 11:27 Yeah, it was Oscar Wilde who-- the great Irish playwright-- 11:30 who said, 11:30 "There's only two great tragedies in life: 11:33 one of them is not getting what you want, 11:36 and the other is getting what you want." 11:38 And that was where I didn't realize-- 11:39 I thought that if I got what I wanted, 11:41 everything would be sorted; everything would be okay. 11:44 But then God gave me everything I wanted, 11:46 and more and more, and things weren't okay. 11:50 >>John: Studies, repeated studies have shown 11:52 there's a certain point of income, of earnings, 11:56 beyond which more money does not increase your happiness. 12:01 It varies in the United States from state to state, 12:04 I'm certain, as the cost of living varies. 12:06 But it's not very high. 12:07 Washington, D.C., about $100,000. 12:10 Most states in the United States, 65. 12:12 You can have 66 or 66 million; it won't make you any happier. 12:18 Do you see that as odd, 12:19 or can you listen to that and go, 12:21 "Yep, I know what that means"? 12:22 >>Julian: Yeah, absolutely. 12:23 Uh, you know, we were talking before 12:26 about the wealthiest adults on the planet 12:27 and how Australians are right up there in second place 12:29 after Switzerland. 12:32 So, basically as, as individual adults-- 12:34 so just, just our families-- 12:36 we are basically wealthier than most average adults, 12:39 most adults around the world. 12:40 We are also the second-highest consumers 12:44 of antidepressant medications on the planet. 12:47 So does money buy happiness? Not at all. 12:49 You know, why, why would we be-- 12:51 are we the second-highest consumers 12:53 because we can afford the pills? 12:54 It's not just because we can afford the pills; 12:57 it's because there's something-- 12:58 we've crossed that $65,000 limit or that $100,000 limit, 13:02 thinking, "Now I'm gonna be happy." 13:05 And we're not. 13:06 And we're going, "Oh, I'm gonna have to medicate." 13:09 [Laughs] You know, as, as, 13:11 as strangely sad as that sounds, that's reality. 13:14 And I've got nothing against antidepressant medication. 13:16 I believe if somebody needs it, they need it. 13:18 But it's just ironic that the second-richest adults 13:21 on the planet are also the second-highest consumers. 13:23 >>John: Now, I sense that there's somebody 13:25 watching us right now who's saying, 13:27 "Man, that's easy for you to say. You've had it all. 13:29 You've had all you wanted with excess, 13:32 but here I am struggling away, barely making ends meet. 13:37 It's easy for you to say." 13:38 Well, it is easy to say, but in a moment when we come back, 13:41 let's talk about why it's easy to believe. 13:43 We'll be right back with more in just a moment. 13:45 Don't go away. 13:47 ♪[Music]♪ 13:55 >>Announcer: When an Italian priest told his congregation 13:58 that he was going on a spiritual retreat 14:00 but was later rescued from a sinking cruise ship, 14:03 he learned an important lesson: Truth matters. 14:06 And the truth matters in the church. 14:08 But a whole lot of what gets passed off as truth 14:10 in the church today isn't. 14:13 Don't miss "The Mouth of Truth" 14:15 on itiswritten.tv. 14:17 You'll visit captivating Italy, beautiful Bosnia. 14:20 You'll see historical sites that attract people 14:22 from around the world, 14:24 and you'll discover how the church has been affected 14:26 by teachings that don't originate in the Bible. 14:29 Jesus said, "The truth shall make you free." 14:33 As Planet Earth marches relentlessly 14:36 toward the end of time, deceptions are on the rise. 14:38 But it's the will of Jesus-- 14:40 "the way, the truth, and the life"-- 14:42 to keep us in the safety of His Word. 14:46 You want to avoid deception. 14:49 Don't miss "The Mouth of Truth" 14:51 on itiswritten.tv. 14:55 >>John Bradshaw: Thank you for remembering 14:57 that It Is Written exists 14:58 because of the kindness of people just like you. 15:01 To support this international life-changing ministry, 15:04 please call us now at 800-253-3000. 15:08 You can send your tax-deductible gift 15:10 to the address on your screen, 15:11 or you can visit us online at itiswritten.com. 15:15 Thank you for your prayers and for your financial support. 15:18 Our number again is 800-253-3000. 15:22 Or you could visit us online at itiswritten.com. 15:26 >>John Bradshaw: Thanks for joining me today 15:28 on It Is Written. 15:29 My guest is Julian Archer, international speaker and author 15:33 on the subject of money and personal finance. 15:36 It was Jesus who said that it's easier for a camel 15:38 to get through the eye of a needle 15:40 than for a rich man to enter into heaven. 15:42 Clearly, having wealth brings some challenges, 15:46 and wealth can be the cause of challenges 15:49 to a person's spiritual life. 15:51 Now, Julian, as we've discussed this, 15:52 I sense that somebody's saying, 15:54 "Well, man, that's easy for you to say. 15:56 You've had it, you've been through it, 15:57 and maybe you're in the place where you can just choose 16:00 to turn your back on chasing money." 16:02 Why is it that really it can be difficult for a person 16:07 to maintain a relationship with Jesus 16:09 when financial blessings increase? 16:12 >>Julian Archer: Yeah, look, I, I have, uh, 16:15 I encourage young people to go out and do really well in life, 16:19 whether that be financially or career-wise or whatever it is; 16:22 I encourage them to do that. 16:23 I did the same in my life. 16:26 However, the challenge that I faced 16:29 was that I was losing my spirituality; 16:31 I was losing my relationship with Jesus. 16:33 The higher my wealth went, 16:34 it seemed the less and less time I had to spend with Jesus. 16:36 And so I say to the young people, look, go for it. 16:40 Put everything you've got into it. 16:42 But hang in there with Jesus right the way through 16:45 because you're, otherwise you're gonna get 16:47 to the other end and it's gonna be, 16:48 "Hey, look, I've gained the whole world, 16:49 and I've got nothing; I've lost my soul." 16:53 >>John: So this emphasis that you see 16:54 in some Christian circles about get more, get more, get more, 16:57 "You can have all you want," 16:58 "God wants you to be rich," and so forth-- 17:00 uh, would you see-- 17:02 let me just ask you how you would see that. 17:04 Healthy, unhealthy, somewhere in the middle? 17:07 >>Julian: Yeah... 17:10 Gut feeling, single word, I would say unhealthy. 17:13 Uh, but I need to, need to explain that. 17:16 Biblically, we--there certainly are passages and stories 17:19 where Jesus says, and, and God says, you know, 17:21 "Obey me and I will bless you." 17:23 Uh, God wants to bless us. 17:26 However, there's also story after story after story 17:29 of individuals and entire nations 17:32 who turned away from God when they were blessed. 17:35 And if we are going to buy in to a scenario 17:41 of "God wants me to be rich," 17:44 then you've really got to have in your chest pocket, 17:47 right near your heart, a ticket that says, 17:50 "I'm not gonna let go of You, Jesus," 17:52 through that process. 17:53 And that's what Jesus was talking about; 17:55 He was talking about the camel... 17:57 having to go through the eye of a needle 17:59 like a rich man getting into heaven. 18:02 It's not easy. 18:03 It may sound easy. 18:04 You may think, "Well, if I had money, 18:05 then I wouldn't have any problems, 18:06 and that would be easy." 18:08 It, it may, may seem to be easy, if you don't have God. 18:11 But if you want to hold on to a saving relationship 18:13 with Jesus Christ during those years, it's, it's-- 18:17 I was gonna say it's hard work, but that sounds legalistic. 18:19 But it's, it's a daily battle. 18:21 You know, Paul says, "I die daily." 18:23 And if we go into the, the Greek of that, 18:26 uh, the word for "I" in his, where he says, "I die daily," 18:30 is epsilon gamma omega, 18:32 E-G-O: Ego dies daily. 18:35 And when you're being blessed, when you're saying, 18:37 "Yeah, God wants me to be rich, 18:38 and here I am-- look, I am being rich now," 18:40 ego just rises up because you get proud. 18:44 You become a Pharisee; you become self-sufficient. 18:47 But your ego has to die daily. 18:49 And I, I, I can tell you, 18:50 killing your ego daily is not easy. 18:52 It's a battle. 18:53 >>John: Let's look at this passage, 18:55 the story where Jesus addressed someone 18:56 who is doing really well financially. 18:58 He came to Jesus. 18:59 I'm gonna read in Matthew chapter 19. 19:01 It says, starting in verse 16, 19:03 "Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, 19:06 what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?'" 19:08 And Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? 19:10 No one is good but One, [and] that is God. 19:12 But if [you'll]...enter into life, keep [my] commandments." 19:15 The young man said to Jesus, "Which ones?" 19:18 And so Jesus enumerated a number of the commandments. 19:20 The young man then said, 19:22 "I've done that ever since I was a kid. 19:24 What do I still lack?" 19:26 And Jesus said in Matthew 19 and 21, 19:28 "If you want to be perfect, go, 19:31 sell what you have and give to the poor, 19:34 and you will have treasure in heaven; 19:36 and come, [and] follow me." 19:37 And what's really interesting, what's tragic is verse 22 says, 19:41 "The young man heard that saying, 19:43 [and] went away sorrowful, 19:46 [because] he had great possessions." 19:49 He was a wealthy young fellow. 19:50 >>Julian: Hmm. 19:53 >>John: What was Jesus really getting at here? 19:55 Did He really mean "sell everything," 19:57 or is this allegorical? 19:58 Why did he say that to the rich young ruler? 20:01 >>Julian: Well, it's interesting that Jesus 20:03 right up said five commandments. 20:05 He said don't do this; don't do this; don't do this. 20:07 And the guys says, "Well, I've done that since my youth." 20:09 And then Jesus says, "One thing you lack." 20:11 Well, what was the one thing? 20:12 Well, it happened to be the sixth commandment 20:14 that He hadn't quoted out of the last ten. 20:16 >>John: "Thou shalt not covet." 20:18 >>Julian: Exactly. "One thing you lack." 20:19 And, uh, He was speaking the truth. 20:22 I mean, Jesus knows, knows this guy's heart. 20:25 But then He comes along and He says, 20:26 "Sell it all. Give it away and come and follow me, 20:29 and you'll have treasure in heaven." 20:31 You know, when I, when I was in business, 20:34 and I was still very actively involved in church, 20:38 this story was the worst story in Scripture for me. 20:45 As, as a rich young ruler, 20:46 you know, as an affluent young businessman, 20:49 I just hated it because I kept thinking that God was telling me 20:54 that I've got to give away everything in order 20:55 to be a disciple. 20:57 And at first reading, you could say, "Yeah, well, it does." 21:02 I then said, "No, no, it's just for him. 21:06 One guy, one point in time." 21:07 And it was like, whew, that was close, you know? 21:10 I nearly had to sell everything. 21:11 And then I went across to Luke 12:33, 21:14 and here's Jesus saying it again. 21:15 He's saying if, you know, unless you sell everything, 21:17 "You can't be my disciple," 21:18 and this time He's talking to the disciples, 21:20 the twelve disciples. 21:22 Two chapters later, Luke 14:33, Jesus is at it again. 21:26 But this time He's talking to an entire multitude and He says, 21:28 "You've got to sell everything you've got 21:29 to come and follow me." 21:31 [exhales loudly] 21:32 And I'm like, "Yeah, this is, nah, this is really heavy." 21:36 So, I got in and I studied the Greek on it, 21:39 at that, where He was talking to the rich young ruler. 21:42 And I found that where He says, 21:45 "Sell all that you own and come and follow me," 21:48 can also be translated, 21:50 "Sell all that owns you and come and follow me." 21:56 And I believe that's what Jesus was saying. 21:57 And we know-- 21:58 I, you know, I knew in my heart the things that owned me. 22:03 And I think what Jesus was saying was, 22:06 "Take everything out of your life 22:08 that is getting between you and me, that is getting-- 22:13 that is distracting you 22:14 from this eternal saving relationship. 22:17 Whatever owns you, 22:18 get rid of that and then come and follow me." 22:20 >>John: This is gonna, this is gonna differ 22:22 from person to person, obviously. 22:23 >>Julian: Exactly. And that's the thing. 22:24 Isn't that the beautiful thing about salvation? 22:26 Salvation--that relationship with Jesus is different 22:28 for every person. 22:30 I don't believe Jesus is telling every Christian 22:32 to sell everything so that we can follow Him. 22:34 It, it would just be a whole crazy different religion 22:38 that we're involved in. 22:40 But I do believe He's telling us to get everything 22:42 out of our lives that's getting between us and Him. 22:45 >>John: So the fact of the matter is 22:46 the guy who has the Lamborghini parked in his garage, 22:48 that might be just perfectly fine for one guy, 22:51 destructive for another. 22:53 >>Julian: Absolutely. 22:54 >>John: The person who's got the magnificent holiday home 22:55 wherever he has it-- or the homes-- 22:57 or he or she, wherever-- 22:59 that might be okay for one person. 23:01 And we mustn't judge people, right? 23:03 Because somebody may have an expensive car 23:04 that ultimately is an investment, 23:06 or properties that they're gonna liquidate and give to the Lord. 23:08 It's not for us to judge anybody. 23:10 So it differs from person to person. 23:13 Couldn't that be just giving a person an escape hatch 23:16 where that person now says, 23:17 "I heard what Julian said, 23:18 but, you know, my fleet of fancy cars doesn't own me. 23:21 Everything's okay." 23:22 >>Julian: Yeah. 23:23 >>John: Could be an escape hatch, right? 23:24 >>Julian: It could be. 23:25 The--and it is individual, person to person, very true-- 23:28 but what is not individual, person to person, 23:31 is when Jesus says that it's easier for a camel 23:34 to go through the eye of a needle 23:35 than for a rich person to get into heaven. 23:37 So, the person might have the Lamborghini 23:40 and all the homes and all the rest of it. 23:41 If they do, it will be extremely difficult for them 23:45 to get into heaven. 23:46 Jesus said that; I'm not saying that. 23:48 That's, that's what Jesus said. 23:49 He said that's the fact, 23:51 and then He had period at the end of it. 23:52 He didn't say, "But if..." or anything. 23:54 He just said, hey, look, if, if you're rich, 23:57 if, you know, even if God's blessed you with your riches, 24:00 it's gonna be really difficult for you to get into heaven. 24:02 Because riches have this little thing that they do 24:04 on your heart, and you tend to get distracted by them, 24:07 and you, you lose that saving relationship. 24:09 >>John: Two questions-- we don't have a lot of time. 24:11 Two questions. 24:12 Uh, let's make this as practical as we can. 24:14 Somebody's wealthy-- and wealth varies, you know-- 24:18 somebody's doing well, 24:19 and they know that their stuff's starting to own them 24:22 and that they're struggling in their relationship with Jesus; 24:24 focus is in the wrong place. 24:25 What's your advice what to do? 24:27 >>Julian: Uh, work out some way of-- 24:32 and it will depend on what, on what situation they're in-- 24:34 if they're owning a business, 24:35 then they may have an opportunity 24:36 to give half of the business to God-- 24:39 or 90 percent, 95, 99. 24:42 I've seen people give 100 percent of the business to God 24:44 and just be paid a wage out of it. 24:45 So there, there are things that you can do along, 24:47 along those lines that is sort of the practical accounting 24:50 nuts-and-bolts sides of things. 24:52 Uh, but ultimately, it's get down on your knees. 24:56 It's get down on your knees more and more and more. 25:00 That's, that's the solution to trying to sort this out. 25:04 Because ultimately, the riches are somewhat irrelevant. 25:08 You can, as we've already discussed, 25:10 you can be affluent and still have 25:12 a really strong daily relationship with Christ, 25:14 but they do tend to get in the way, 25:17 so we've got to get back to that relationship, 25:19 that "first love," as Jesus called it. 25:21 >>John: Second question for you: Why does God give wealth? 25:25 What's the purpose? 25:26 Just to bless us for our faithfulness, 25:28 or is there a greater purpose? 25:29 >>Julian: Yeah. He loves us, 25:31 and He wants to bless others through us, 25:34 and at the same time we are blessed. 25:35 "It's more blessed to give than to receive." 25:37 So He's giving us a privilege, an opportunity to feel 25:40 those blessings of giving to others in need. 25:42 >>John: Some people don't want to give away what they've got. 25:44 What would you say to them? 25:46 >>Julian: Go down on your knees. [laughs] 25:48 It's really, yeah, it's really, it's God's. 25:52 It's God's, and He wants you to give it. 25:53 And you will be so blessed when you do. 25:56 >>John: So wealth is okay? 25:59 >>Julian: Yes. 26:00 >>John: Being rich is okay? 26:01 >>Julian: Mm-hmm. 26:02 >>John: You can be a successful Christian and be wealthy? 26:04 >>Julian: Yes. 26:05 >>John: But at the end of the day, 26:07 we have to remember it all belongs to...? 26:09 >>Julian: God. 26:09 >>John: It all belongs to God. 26:11 And if we keep that in mind, then we might see some camels 26:15 squeezing their way through the eye of a needle. 26:18 ♪[Music]♪ 26:26 >>Announcer: The pursuit of wealth 26:28 has been the ruin of many people. 26:30 God promises to bless His people financially. 26:33 But often, God's blessings can turn into a curse. 26:36 Get your free copy of "God Will Provide" 26:38 and learn the recipe to financial success. 26:41 Call 800-253-3000, 26:44 800-253-3000. 26:47 You can write to the address on your screen 26:49 or visit us online at iiwoffer.com. 26:52 Get "God Will Provide"-- iiwoffer.com. 26:57 >>John Bradshaw: Julian, thank you. 26:58 It's really been a blessing. Thanks for joining me. 27:00 >>Julian Archer: Thank you, it's been great to be here. 27:02 >>John: Let's pray together now. 27:03 Our Father in heaven, 27:04 we are grateful for Your many blessings. 27:06 They come in so many different ways. 27:08 Frequently, You bless us financially, 27:12 but we see the danger of allowing our blessings 27:14 to be anything but a blessing. 27:16 So grant that we will keep things in focus, 27:18 that however we do financially, materially, 27:21 we will remember that everything belongs to You, 27:23 that we are Yours, and Jesus is ours. 27:27 Grant us the opportunity and the desire 27:30 to allow our blessings to be a blessing to others. 27:33 Work through us, both to will and to do, 27:36 for Your good pleasure. 27:37 We thank You, and we pray in Jesus' name. 27:40 Amen. 27:41 Thanks so much for joining us today. 27:43 I'm looking forward to seeing you again next time. 27:45 Until then, remember: 27:47 "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, 27:51 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" 27:56 ♪[Theme music]♪ 28:07 ♪[Theme music]♪ |
Revised 2021-01-19