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Series Code: IIWC
Program Code: IIWC201922S
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00:00 >> So here is an irony. Perhaps you've noticed that we are living in an era
00:05 where there are more fun things to do than ever before in human history, 00:08 and yet we have so many more depressed people. >> That is so ironic. 00:15 You would think that with all the modes of entertainment we have literally 00:19 at our fingertips, we should be happier than ever before. 00:22 >> But there are so many people in Canada who are suffering feelings of sadness and despair. 00:28 >> We are being told that depression is reaching epidemic proportions in Canada 00:33 and throughout the world. >> Depression is the number-one cause of disability. 00:37 More people miss work due to depression than any other condition. 00:42 In today's program, although we are going to be discussing the topic of depression, 00:46 we are going to seek to give you hope, the hope of relief, from this 00:51 crippling illness. >> Depression consists of a constellation of symptoms, 00:56 starting with sadness or feelings of emptiness. >> Other symptoms include 01:01 feelings of apathy, moodiness, and increased irritability, a lack of energy with increased 01:09 sleep disturbances and a lack of concentration. >> Depression gets severe 01:14 when there are feelings of worthlessness and a preoccupation 01:18 with morbid thoughts. >> You know, in this ancient book, the Bible, 01:22 we are offered answers to the condition of depression. We receive encouragement 01:27 knowing that godly leaders like King David, the prophet Jeremiah, and even 01:32 Moses himself felt downcast, broken-hearted, and in despair. >> Yes, the Bible records 01:39 the tragedies of Job, who proclaimed, "I loathe my very life," in Job 10:1. 01:46 >> Jesus himself was referred to as a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief 01:51 in Isaiah 53:3. And yet he overcame, and he gives us all the power 01:56 to overcome all the crippling symptoms of sin and suffering that we see in our world. 02:03 >> So if you find yourself in a dark place today, know that you are not alone. 02:08 >> As God comforted his people in the past, he will comfort you, too, today. 02:15 >> In today's program, we are going to be discussing this topic of depression 02:19 with Dr. Nadine Plummer, N.D., and she's going to help us see how we can find hope 02:26 and relief. ♪♪ ♪♪ 02:42 ♪♪ 02:49 >> Hello, and thank you for joining us on 02:51 "It Is Written Canada." Today in our studio, we have 02:54 Dr. Nadine Plummer, N.D., and she is a graduate of 02:58 the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine in 03:01 Toronto. 03:02 And she's going to be sharing with us thoughts on the topic of mental health and depression. 03:07 So thank you for joining us, Dr. Nadine Plummer. >> You're welcome. 03:11 >> So wonderful to have you here in our studio again at "It Is Written," so thank you 03:16 so much for joining us once again. >> You're welcome. 03:19 I'm glad to be here again. >> Yeah. So, the topic of depression is a big one. 03:24 Have you had people come in to you as a doctor and deal with depression in those cases? 03:31 >> I have. I've had people come in who are 03:35 depressed or people who have anxiety. 03:38 And often it's been because they have physical ailments. 03:42 You know, a lot of pain, a lot of shoulder pain, tightness up the neck, 03:46 which is common with anxiety, and gut issues also very common with anxiety. 03:53 And then we have the opportunity to talk about, you know, what might be going on mentally 03:58 and emotionally as well as physically, because it kind 04:02 of expresses itself physically for a lot of people. >> So you start off and you're 04:07 seeing physical symptoms, and then you're leading towards that. 04:10 Do find that some people have a hard time talking about that? Like, it's sort of a taboo 04:15 topic, like, "I shouldn't be weak," or "What is this?" You know, like, "If it's a 04:20 broken arm, I can talk about it. But if it's a broken emotion, I don't want to talk about 04:24 that." >> I think it takes a level of maturity. 04:27 Some people shy away from it. There are feelings of shame, as well. 04:32 That's why it's so important to talk about it. And I'm glad that we're doing 04:35 this show. Other people, when you kind of introduce that idea, like, 04:41 "Oh, perhaps there's something behind the physical pain that you're experiencing." 04:47 Some people shut down, like, "Oh. Don't want to talk about it," or stuff their feelings. 04:52 And for others, it's an opportunity to really, you know, open that up a little bit 04:57 and look to see what contributing factors are. >> So by opening it up, 05:03 by having that discussion, by talking about it can produce healing. 05:07 >> Absolutely. Yeah. Think of depression. I mean, there are many different causes, 05:12 and we'll talk about them today. But some of those causes are mental, emotional, 05:17 maybe past wounds, past emotional wounds, childhood trauma, 05:22 abuse, that type of thing. When that's involved, I kind of think of it like 05:27 a wound that has had an infection is still there under the surface. 05:33 And in medicine, there's a term called debridement. It's kind of where you get 05:38 rid of all of the dead skin and slough everything off so you can get to 05:42 the actual infection. And that's kind of what it's about when you're opening 05:47 that up, something from the past, something unresolved. 05:51 You're debriding so you can really get to the underlying issue. 05:55 >> Which can be a very painful process. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. 05:59 It's definitely a journey. >> So, Dr. Nadine, how would you define depression? 06:06 >> So, my definition, actually, that I'm going to give you -- You mentioned some of the 06:10 symptoms -- is not actually mine. It's based on the DSM-5. 06:15 It's the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. 06:19 So this is really just talking about symptoms. And that's something that's used 06:26 by medical doctors, it's used by N.D.s, used by pharmacists. 06:30 And it shows there are many different types of depression, but there are basic symptoms 06:35 that most people experience, and that would include five or more of 06:41 the following -- depressed mood nearly every day. Your mood is low. 06:45 Decreased interest in activities nearly every day, maybe things that you used 06:51 to be interested in and now you're not. Weight loss or weight gain. 06:57 Sleep. So important. Insomnia. 07:01 Either you can't sleep or you're oversleeping nearly every day. Feelings of restlessness, 07:07 feelings of being slowed down, psychomotor changes. So even your body slows down. 07:13 The way that you move, you walk slower, you talk slower, indecisiveness, 07:19 cognitive fogginess, fatigue, feelings of worthlessness, as you had mentioned, 07:26 feelings of guilt that are just inappropriate, diminished ability to 07:31 concentrate, and recurrent thoughts of death. Recurrent thoughts, perhaps, 07:36 of suicide. The interesting thing is, for it to be a diagnosis of depression, 07:41 it means that those symptoms are not because of an abuse of substances, they're not 07:48 because of a medical condition, and they're at the point where they impair 07:53 your abilities to function, your ability to work, your ability to function 07:59 occupationally, socially, et cetera. >> So, Dr. Plummer, 08:04 do you have to have all of these symptoms to be classified as depressed, or...? 08:09 >> You have to have five or more of those symptoms. >> Okay. 08:13 >> And the classification is over a two-week period. >> Okay. 08:17 >> So, five or more of those symptoms... >> Okay. 08:20 >> ...nearly every day over two weeks. >> Yes. So could you be 08:24 having feelings of sadness and still not be depressed? >> You could. 08:28 >> Okay. >> And when people think of depression, they think 08:31 of sadness, and sadness is part of depression but it is not 08:36 necessarily depression. >> Right. >> The difference really is, 08:41 you could go through a situation where you feel very sad but your sadness might -- it 08:47 might not always be constant like this. You go out with friends 08:50 and it kind of gets your mind off of things, or you see a movie and you laugh 08:54 and there's kind of an end to sadness. >> Right. 08:58 >> But with depression, it's... >> Ongoing. 09:01 >> Ongoing, yeah. >> And you mention for two weeks or more when you have these 09:06 ongoing symptoms. >> That's right. There are other types of 09:09 depression where the severity is less. Symptoms are the same, 09:14 severity is less. And for that diagnosis, it's actually two years. 09:19 So that's like -- it is referred to sometimes more lay -- in a lay way, as minor depression. 09:26 >> Mm-hmm. >> But major depressive disorders, two weeks or more. 09:31 >> Mm-hmm. >> So, Dr. Plummer, what -- what kind of things 09:36 can cause depression, or what causes depression? >> So that's the key question -- 09:40 "What causes depression?" And I think that science is really looking -- 09:46 And not just science, but people who are focusing on mental health -- 09:50 are looking to causes that are beyond chemical causes or beyond serotonin. 09:56 There's so many contributing factors to what causes depression. 10:02 And so it's not really a known answer. It's many things contributing 10:07 to depression. I focus a lot on some factors that are part of our lifestyle. 10:14 Sleep, for instance. >> Right. >> Sleep or lack of sleep, 10:17 a great contributor. And when I think of sleep, I think of 10:21 the biblical character Elijah. >> Yeah. >> He went through a very 10:24 demanding and taxing experience, which we sometimes go through. 10:29 And then, after that, he felt like, "Okay. That's it. I'm ready -- 10:34 I'm ready to give up. Lord, take my life. You know, he was in a depressed 10:38 state, and an angel came to him and said, "Okay, it's time to eat." 10:42 And then he slept and he rested. That kind of showed me that he had gone through something 10:48 that was very demanding, and he was undernourished. >> Yes. 10:51 >> And he was experiencing lack of sleep, lack of rest. >> So, could you say, then, 10:57 that there's kind of a lot going on here, that when we have a period 11:01 of exhaustion, it can lead to a period of depression? >> Yeah. 11:05 >> And that it targets us, you know, and you're just like -- you know, 11:09 you just don't see it coming. Like, when you're really, really tired 11:12 and you're really exhausted, and, you know, you see someone who's really down, 11:18 they're just down. They can't see any hope in that circumstance. 11:21 And so here Elijah was, as you're referring to, God came to him, you know, 11:27 gave him a chance to rest and then gave him something to eat. >> Yeah. 11:31 Basic needs. This isn't always the case, but those could be 11:36 contributing factors that make you more vulnerable. >> Right. 11:39 >> People call it crashing after they've been through a very demanding experience 11:44 and they don't kind of re-nourish and they don't rest. Sleep is a tough one 11:50 because sleep can affect mood so gravely. And sleep is also 11:54 one of the symptoms. So when you're not getting enough sleep, 11:58 then your mood goes down. And then when you mood goes down, especially if you're 12:02 already depressed, then it can go on. Then you don't get enough sleep, 12:06 et cetera. So it becomes part of this cycle that could contribute 12:11 to the severity of depression. There have been studies on sleep and how sleep affects mood. 12:19 Johns Hopkins has a sleep research named Patrick Finan, and he went to look 12:25 at how sleep affected not necessarily depression but unhappiness. 12:29 How can sleep affect happiness? And he realized that, with sleep deprivation, there was actually 12:35 a great risk of depression, great risk of anxiety, great risk of irritability, 12:41 risks of forgetfulness. And those are all symptoms in depression. 12:45 But he also saw that there was a risk of getting sick, that it affected the immune system, 12:51 risk of colorectal cancer, greater risk of type 2 diabetes. So I would say sleep 12:57 is definitely a contributing factor for depression and many other things, as well. 13:03 >> So, we're going to take a little bit of a break right now, and we're going to listen to a 13:05 song called "Fill My Cup, Lord." And I guess a person who's feeling depressed 13:10 has an empty cup. They feel like they need to be full. 13:14 So we're going to take a quick break and listen to that song, and then we'll be right back. 13:19 >> Great. 13:21 ♪♪ 13:31 ♪♪ ♪♪ >> ♪ Like the woman 13:52 at the well ♪ ♪ I was seeking ♪ For things that could not 14:00 satisfy ♪ ♪ And then I heard my Savior speaking ♪ 14:10 ♪ Draw from my well that never shall run dry ♪ ♪ Fill my cup, Lord 14:20 ♪ I lift it up, Lord ♪ Come and quench this thirsting of my soul ♪ 14:29 ♪ Bread of Heaven, feed me till I want no more ♪ ♪ Fill my cup, 14:40 fill it up and make me whole ♪ ♪ So, my children, if the things this world gave you ♪ 14:52 ♪ Leave hungers that won't pass away ♪ ♪ My blessed Lord 15:01 will come and save you ♪ ♪ If you kneel to him and humbly pray ♪ 15:11 ♪ Fill my cup, Lord ♪ I lift it up, Lord ♪ Come and quench 15:20 this thirsting of my soul ♪ ♪ Bread of Heaven, feed me till I want no more ♪ 15:32 ♪ Fill my cup, fill it up and make me whole ♪ ♪ Bread of Heaven, 15:41 feed me till I want no more ♪ 15:47 ♪ Fill my cup, fill it up and make me whole ♪ 16:04 >> The words of that song are so important. "I found myself seeking 16:08 for things that would not satisfy" -- that kind of tells me about the story of Solomon, 16:14 King Solomon here in the Bible, and how he was the king, he seemed to have everything 16:21 going for him. And what was it he had? He had all the gold 16:25 and the wisdom and the riches. He also multiplied wives. We're talking about how many 16:32 wives? A thousand wives? He had 300 wives 16:36 and 700 concubines. And he was seeking everything. He had horses, 16:40 multiplied horses. And yet the Bible tells us he wasn't happy. 16:46 Ecclesiastes 2:10 says, "I had whatever my eyes desired, 16:53 and I kept not anything from me. And I withheld 16:57 not my heart from joy. And yet," he says, 17:04 "I didn't like my life" -- "I hated my life," as it says, 17:06 in some translations. 17:08 So he looked upon all the works of his hands and all that he had worked for, 17:12 and I guess he was depressed. I think you could say that. So that's a bummer. 17:18 Some people look at this and they say, "Maybe there's a chemical imbalance." 17:23 A lot of people have this idea of serotonin, that there's an imbalance of 17:27 serotonin going on with people. >> And that this imbalance causes depression. 17:32 >> Yes. >> And that has been a strong theory for quite a while. 17:38 And hence anti-depressants, many of them target serotonin. There are new theories 17:44 on depression that actually go beyond serotonin. Depression is one of 17:48 those conditions that has many different aspects to it -- 17:53 an environmental aspect, a biological aspect, a genetic aspect, 17:58 and a lifestyle aspect. So going beyond serotonin, in my opinion, 18:04 is quite important. Studies are looking into the association between 18:07 mental health and inflammation. There might be an association with neurodegeneration. 18:12 The health of the gut influences mental health through the gut-brain access, traumas in the 18:18 past, as I was saying, that are not dealt with or retriggered, such as childhood abuse, 18:24 parental loss. Childhood trauma can contribute to -- even though 18:30 it was in your childhood, they can contribute to depression as adults. 18:35 Genetics may play a role. If someone has a first-degree relative who experiences 18:41 depression or anxiety, then they are at higher risk to experience depression 18:45 or anxiety themselves. I said there are different areas. 18:50 There are biological factors that are involved, possible enzyme mutations, 18:55 sensitivity receptor issues with serotonin. But then, you could look 18:59 at nutrition, as well, nutritional deficiencies. Low vitamin D. 19:04 People tend to be a little, you know, their moods not as high in the wintertime. 19:09 Vitamin D levels are low, iron levels are low, B12 when it's low. 19:15 All of those things can affect mood greatly. Basic nutrition is someone 19:20 eating too much sugar. A lot of stimulants. You're just sending your mood 19:25 on a roller coaster. >> When you're taking those kinds of foods like sugar, 19:30 you're in-- you're increasing inflammation in your body. >> Yeah, yes. 19:34 >> And so your body is responding to that. And it's, you know, the 19:38 gut-brain connection you mentioned, as well, that we have the vagus nerve that goes 19:43 straight from the stomach to the brain, you know, hardwired right there. 19:47 So if there's problems within your digestion, within your nutrition, 19:52 your entire biology -- This is not just one silver bullet that's going 19:57 to solve this problem. >> Serotonin's also in the gut, produced in the gut as well as 20:01 the brain. >> Wow. >> But there's something that I 20:03 didn't mention that I think is overlooked and is definitely a contributing factor, and that's 20:09 stress. Chronic stress also makes us vulnerable to depression. 20:15 And you could experience stress in many different ways. Maybe stress in your job. 20:19 Maybe you're unhappy in your job. I mean, this is where it gets 20:22 into lifestyle. What are you doing here on earth? 20:26 That could be contributing to depression. Maybe stress in your marriage 20:30 relationship or stress in relationship that you can't get out of? 20:34 >> Correct, yeah. >> That's your environment. Also, toxicity 20:39 in your environment. But toxic relationships could cause toxicity 20:43 in the body, as well. So depression is multi-faceted. >> So, you also are aware 20:50 of this story about this Dr. Summerfield, and he's a South African doctor 20:55 who sat down with these Cambodian doctors, and he had spoken to them 20:59 about anti-depressants because he's a psychiatrist. So what happened in the case 21:04 was, the doctors came and they said, "We have antidepressants." 21:08 He said, "Well, what is your antidepressant?" He thought that they would be 21:11 giving them some kind of -- you know, some kind of herbal medicine. 21:15 And they said, "No, we sat down with this doc-- this farmer. He was a rice farmer. 21:21 And he was crying all the time. So we rallied around him. We listened, 21:27 and then we realized, obviously, your pain and your circumstances 21:35 need to be heard. And perhaps you should get another job. 21:38 Perhaps we can give you a cow." And so they bought him a cow, and then he would milk the cow, 21:44 and that's how he made a living, and his depression went away. And he said -- And the doctors 21:49 told, you know, this Dr. Summerfield, "The cow is the 21:54 anti-depressant," right? And what they were really saying is, "You need 21:58 to listen to the symptoms. Listen to the pain," that sometimes we think 22:04 it's a chemical imbalance. But really there's an imbalance in the way that we're living. 22:08 And we need to look at the lifestyle and how people are living. 22:13 So can there be triggers to depression? >> Actually, in the case 22:18 of that farmer, what triggered his depression was an accident. He was working, and he lost his 22:24 limb, and so it was a big change in his lifestyle. >> Yes. 22:27 >> And he was probably experiencing a little bit of post-traumatic stress disorder. 22:32 >> Exactly. >> So situations like that can trigger depression, 22:36 a change in your life, the loss of a loved one. Grief can actually, 22:42 for most people, they grieve, and then they come out the other end. 22:45 But for some people, grief actually is the step. They grieve and move 22:50 into major depression and continue to be depressed. When people think of loss, 22:56 they think of loss of a loved one, it can be a loss of a job. 23:00 It could be loss of a pet. So things like that can trigger depression. 23:05 Postpartum depression triggered after, you know... >> The birth. 23:10 >> After the birth of a child. So, yes, depression can definitely be triggered. 23:15 Sometimes when people have an accident, they're in pain. Constant pain can trigger 23:19 depression. So definitely, definitely can be triggered. 23:24 >> So, Dr. Plummer, as Christians, people have said 23:30 that it's not good -- As a Christian, we shouldn't be depressed. 23:33 >> Right. >> Right? So what does the Bible say about this? 23:37 >> So I think you'd given some excellent Bible verses in your introduction. 23:42 We can find examples in the Bible where people are experiencing low mood 23:46 or depression. They experience loneliness, a sense of hopelessness 23:51 to the point where it could actually be called suicidal ideation, 23:54 which is when the symptoms of depression in Jonah 4:3, Jonah says, "Now, Lord, 23:59 take away my life. It's better for me to die than to live." 24:02 Jeremiah 20:14-15, "Curse be the day I was born. May the day my mother bore me 24:08 not be blessed. Curse be the man who brought my father the news. 24:12 Why did I ever come out of the womb? To see trouble and sorrow 24:15 and to end my days in shame?" >> He does sound depressed. >> So we people in the Bible 24:20 struggle with depression, as well. Definitely suicidal. 24:23 So sometimes it could be triggered by different situations, different states, 24:28 maybe, that some of these Bible characters were going through, and then 24:32 they experienced depression and suicidal ideation. >> This is very serious. 24:37 So what would you recommend if a person is feeling like that right now? 24:41 >> If someone's feeling suicidal right now, then I would recommend that 24:46 they go and see, if they could, they go to see a counselor, go see your family doctor, 24:51 and definitely start to talk about it. >> Yes. 24:54 >> That is the first step. When you're at that point of suicidal ideation, 24:59 that's a big flag that you need to address it right away. >> Yeah, you need people 25:05 rallying around you and helping you. And usually we withdraw, right? 25:09 When we're in those states. I've seen people withdraw. >> And if 25:13 it's a matter of suicide, I would say you need a professional. 25:17 It is good to talk to someone about it, but if you're at that point, 25:21 go to a professional, go to a counselor, go to your family doctor, 25:25 and then start that process. >> Yeah. We are running out of time, 25:29 but I really want to talk about, are there things that we can do? Is there a way 25:33 we can treat this? Is there a lifestyle change? What would you recommend? 25:39 >> What you said about what they did for that farmer, they looked at his needs. 25:43 >> Yes. >> And what's happening a lot in society is, people's 25:47 needs are not being met. People are tending to experience more loneliness, more isolation, 25:52 especially as we move into a digital era. So one of the things that 25:57 can help is actually not being as isolated but joining a group, 26:03 doing something fun that's active. You want to feel like you 26:06 belong. Lifestyle changes can be made, including exercise. 26:10 So important. Changing your diet. Going to get more sun. 26:16 Looking to see if you have deficiencies in iron, B12, vitamin D. 26:21 You have to really address the stress in your life. Feelings from the past, 26:27 addressing them, going to see a professional. Cognitive behavioral therapy 26:31 is very effective, especially if anxiety is in the picture. And really, prayer, also, 26:39 is such an important part. Just as you'd said, Jesus himself had also suffered. 26:45 So, really going to our maker and asking for help. I believe that brings 26:52 a lot of hope. But doing all of those things and looking at depression 26:58 from that approach is multifaceted and feeling like we belong here 27:05 and you're not on your own. I think those are some -- some good starts. 27:09 >> Thank you very much. Yeah, that is very promising. And can I ask you to pray for us 27:16 as we close off the program together? >> Lord Jesus, we just thank you 27:20 so much for another day of life. Lord, if there are people who are listening, Lord, 27:25 who are experiencing depression right now, Jesus, I pray that they will 27:28 feel hope and they will feel a sense of renewal. And I just ask that 27:32 you'll touch them right now, Jesus, and show them -- show them what they can do 27:38 to start this process of change and moving out of depression. In Jesus's name, we pray. Amen. 27:43 >> Amen. So, today, we have not only covered the topic of depression 27:48 but we have looked for answers. And we have an offer for you today called 27:53 "Secrets to Peak Mental Health." And in there, you will find some answers. 27:58 And to receive that offer, here is the information you need. 28:03 >> To request today's offer, just log on to 28:07 www.ItIsWrittenCanada.ca. If you prefer, you may call, 28:12 toll-free, at 1-888-CALL-IIW. And thank you for your prayer 28:17 requests and your generous financial support. 28:21 >> So, Dr. Plummer, thank you very much for joining us again. And there are times 28:25 when we feel overwhelmed, and you have pointed us to the word of God. 28:30 Thank you for doing that. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah. 28:33 Friends, thank you for joining us again here on "It Is Written Canada." 28:37 Just want to remind you the words of Jesus where he says, it is written, "Man shall not 28:42 live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." 28:49 ♪♪ |
Revised 2020-03-10