Participants:
Series Code: IIWC
Program Code: IIWC202033S
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00:01 for joining us on
00:02 It Is Written Canada. 00:04 When I think of the words, 00:05 "falsely accused," I think of 00:07 two men in the Bible: 00:08 Joseph who was falsely accused 00:10 by Potiphar's wife in Egypt 00:13 and Jesus who was falsely 00:15 accused of being a blasphemer 00:18 and a law-breaker. 00:20 Both were innocent, but both 00:23 were convicted of crimes they 00:24 did not commit and were 00:26 sent to jail. 00:28 Both their stories speak to 00:30 the reality of how the human 00:33 justice system can be 00:34 very unjust. 00:36 Similarly, our guests today 00:39 are Aaron and Zachary Simmonds 00:41 who, on one fateful day in 00:43 February 2020, were on their 00:44 way to visit their brother in 00:46 Toronto. 00:47 >> They had just left their 00:49 parent's house and all of a 00:50 sudden they were confronted 00:52 with a swarm of police cars 00:54 coming out of nowhere, 00:55 guns were aimed at them 00:57 and they faced charges 00:59 of second degree murder. 01:01 In a moment we will hear 01:03 their story. 01:06 ♪♪ 01:12 [Norwill] I just kept asking 01:13 God, "What happened?" 01:15 "What went wrong?" 01:16 [Zach] One wrong move and 01:17 that's the end of it. 01:18 [Carol] Somebody made a very 01:20 big mistake here, 01:21 not those boys. 01:23 [Norwill] God's always been 01:25 able before, why not now? 01:30 >> So, Aaron and Zack, this is 01:32 amazing that you are willing 01:33 to talk about this. 01:34 We really just want to get 01:36 into mind and... 01:37 What was it like, right? 01:38 So thank you for being here. 01:40 [Aaron & Zack] Thank you for 01:40 having us. 01:42 >> So, Aaron, I'm gonna start 01:43 with you. 01:44 Can you take us back to that 01:46 Tuesday afternoon and share 01:48 with us what happened? 01:51 >> Me and Zack were on our way 01:53 back to Toronto for the week. 01:54 We were both working 01:55 out there. 01:56 We left a little bit later 01:57 than we usually do. 01:59 We were driving and we had 02:02 forgotten stuff, it's almost 02:03 like a family trait, we forget 02:05 a lot of things. 02:06 So we went back home 02:08 and then we were on the 02:09 road again. 02:10 I didn't get to the highway 02:13 yet, I was on the 115, about 02:15 like 10, 15 minutes away when 02:19 I pass an exit and I see a cop 02:20 car and I'm like, "Oh, man." 02:22 "I hope I'm not speeding." 02:24 I'm looking at my speedometer, 02:25 I'm like, "Oh, no. I'm fine." 02:27 Then I see this SUV speeding 02:29 up quickly behind us and as it 02:31 gets closer, I'm like, 02:32 "Oh, OK, that's the cop." 02:35 "That's the OPP officer so" 02:36 "maybe he's going somewhere," 02:38 "maybe I was speeding," 02:40 "I have no idea." 02:41 So I just stay in my lane 02:43 until he's right behind me and 02:44 he's really close behind me, 02:46 but no lights were going off 02:47 and my exit was coming up so I 02:49 went into the next lane. 02:51 He pulled up slightly beside 02:53 me and then his lights-- and 02:56 then he turned on his lights 02:58 and we started pulling over, 03:00 but because we had just gone 03:02 off to our exit, we pulled off 03:04 to the side and he was driving 03:05 weird behind us. 03:07 I mean, obviously at that 03:08 point you're not thinking too 03:09 much about how, like, an 03:11 officer is doing what he does. 03:13 So we were just waiting there 03:14 for our ticket or whatever we 03:16 were gonna get when I hear 03:17 over his loud speaker, 03:19 "Roll down your windows." 03:21 So I slightly, I turn my head 03:23 and I look back and I see him 03:25 in the middle of the exit with 03:28 his gun drawn. 03:29 So I roll down my window and 03:31 he proceeds to ask us to do a 03:32 bunch of other things like 03:34 take off our seat belt, 03:35 throw our keys out the window, 03:36 put our hands out the window, 03:38 open the door. 03:39 It wasn't too clear about some 03:41 of the things 'cause of the 03:42 order in which he asked us 03:44 'cause he had asked me to get 03:46 out of the car, but I hadn't 03:47 taken off my seat belt yet. 03:48 You know, you just wanna be 03:49 thorough at that point 'cause 03:51 you don't wanna get shot for a 03:52 foolish reason. 03:54 So I asked him if I could. 03:56 He's like, "Yeah, take it" 03:58 "off and get out, hands up." 04:00 He wants me to side shuffle 04:02 into the middle of the street 04:05 and then walk backwards. 04:07 I walked backwards for a few 04:08 paces before he asked me to 04:10 get on my knees and crawl 04:12 backwards until I got to him 04:14 and then I was put in 04:15 handcuffs and I was patted 04:17 down and asked if I had 04:18 anything on me. 04:19 >> So now you've got the 04:21 handcuffs on, what did you see 04:24 when you turned around? 04:25 >> I see a lot. 04:28 I see a lot of cops, I see a 04:30 lot of cars, SUV's, trucks, 04:34 vans, you hear dogs barking, 04:36 you don't know where they are, 04:37 just a lot commotion and all 04:39 you could really think is, 04:40 "What could have possibly" 04:42 "happened to have this many" 04:44 "people from the police that" 04:46 "doesn't have a huge" 04:47 "population to bring out" 04:49 "this many cops?" 04:50 But at that point it's not 04:53 even about, like, how you 04:55 feel, it's just about how you 04:56 react to the situation 'cause, 04:58 like, one wrong move is, 05:01 that's the end of it. 05:04 >> And this whole time now, 05:05 Zachary, you're sitting in 05:07 the vehicle. 05:08 >> Yeah, yeah. 05:10 I was just trying to figure 05:13 out, like, OK, now we're in 05:15 this, but, like, what's 05:17 happening, and how are we 05:18 gonna get back to, like, 05:20 what we were doing? 05:21 You know, like, how are we 05:22 gonna get back to, like, on 05:23 the road, I thought we were 05:24 gonna be out of there in the 05:25 next 15, 20 minutes. 05:27 They told me to get out and 05:28 then face forwards and walk 05:32 backwards and then I heard a 05:33 lot of people saying a lot of 05:35 different orders, you know? 05:36 Like, someone was telling me 05:38 stand there, another person 05:39 was telling me get on my 05:40 knees, another person was 05:42 telling me to back up and I 05:43 was like, "Which one do I do?" 05:44 You know, I actually, like, 05:45 there was just a lot going on. 05:47 I just was walking backwards 05:49 and then after, you know, a 05:50 couple steps they told me to 05:52 get on my knees and I was like 05:53 in a big puddle of snow, 05:55 dirt, you know, all that and I 05:57 was like, "I'm going" 05:59 "somewhere, you're gonna" 06:00 "mess up my pants," you know. 06:02 I don't know, I don't know 06:04 what I was thinking, but I was 06:05 like, "This is a puddle!" 06:07 After that they just put the-- 06:09 >> That was only part-- at 06:10 that point, that was the only 06:11 point I was actually like, 06:12 "Oh, this could go" 06:13 "really bad." 06:17 [Hollace] What went through my 06:18 mind when I first heard the 06:20 news was, "Impossible." 06:22 "Absolutely impossible." 06:25 I had to fight with myself to 06:27 be reasonable because of what 06:30 I had to deal with the next 06:32 day so I tried to shut my mind 06:35 off, but I think I slept for 06:38 a few minutes, maybe 06:39 half an hour. 06:41 >> That night was extremely 06:42 difficult. 06:44 I'm trying to think if I 06:46 actually did sleep or not. 06:48 I honestly can't remember. 06:50 There were so many things 06:51 going over in my mind, I'm 06:52 trying to figure it out. 06:54 And I just kept asking God all 06:55 night, "OK, what happened?" 06:58 "What went wrong?" 07:01 I knew then I just had to wait 07:02 for the answer. 07:04 I know there was an answer, 07:05 but I know I had to wait for 07:07 it so I said, "OK." 07:11 It was rough though. 07:14 We prepared ourselves to go to 07:17 the court the next morning 07:19 because we were told that they 07:21 were supposed to be in court 07:22 in order to be properly 07:23 charged. 07:25 Unfortunately, as we drove 07:26 down the driveway, we were 07:29 stopped by the police and we 07:32 were detained for 15 minutes, 07:35 could be more. 07:37 They wouldn't give us a good 07:38 answer, why are we detained? 07:40 When they told us that we 07:43 couldn't go anywhere, I said, 07:45 "OK, then I'll just go back" 07:46 "up to the house and sit down" 07:47 "if I can't go anywhere." 07:49 He says, "No, you have to" 07:49 "stay here." 07:50 So we sat there and he was 07:54 asking questions and stuff 07:56 like that and I was trying to 07:57 answer but I was trying to 07:58 figure out, "where are you" 07:59 "going with all these" 08:01 "questions?" and he wouldn't 08:02 give me a good answer. 08:04 So I said, "Well, I won't" 08:05 "answer any more questions." 08:08 "Why should I be answering" 08:09 "your questions and you're" 08:10 "not answering mine?" 08:12 >> So you were looking forward 08:14 to going to your brother in 08:15 Toronto to spend time with 08:17 your nephew, 08:18 and the next minute you guys 08:20 are arrested and in jail? 08:22 >> Yeah. 08:23 >> So when did you see 08:24 your parents? 08:26 When was the first time you 08:27 saw your parents? 08:28 >> It was... 08:29 how many hours later? 08:31 Once we finally got to the 08:32 precinct we'd be staying at, 08:34 we were there for about eight 08:36 hours then we were transported 08:40 to the court where that was 08:42 the first time we got to see 08:44 our parents. 08:45 >> So that was the next day? 08:46 >> That was, yeah, 08:47 the next day. 08:48 >> We sat there 08:50 until back and fourth he 08:52 decided after he got, I think, 08:55 maybe from his superior that 08:58 it was OK to let us go, 09:00 he came back and he says, 09:01 "You're free to go." 09:03 OK. 09:06 So we took off to court and 09:08 that's when we first saw 09:09 the boys. 09:10 We were allowed to go to the 09:12 back to see them before they 09:14 actually come into court and 09:18 that's when it kinda 09:19 got teary. 09:21 >> So when you saw them, 09:24 what went through your mind? 09:26 Was it an emotional thing? 09:29 >> It was very emotional. 09:30 I think that was the point we 09:33 actually allowed ourselves to 09:35 realize our full situation 09:37 because up to this point it's 09:39 been a lot of reaction. 09:42 But yeah, no, this was the 09:43 first time I was able to 09:45 realize how much pain it was 09:49 doing to me and my family. 09:53 [Hollace] Aaron was the first 09:55 one to be brought in, we had 09:56 to wait a few minutes and 09:58 I heard shackles 10:01 and he came in, he looked at 10:04 me and he lost his composure, 10:08 he burst into tears, and when 10:10 he was able to speak, his 10:12 question was, "How is Zack?" 10:14 Then we were able to see Zack, 10:16 same scenario, shackles, and 10:18 then he appeared and he had 10:20 his head down and I told him 10:23 to lift his head up and he did 10:26 and he looked at me and he 10:28 burst into tears as well and 10:30 he asked me, "How is Aaron?" 10:33 It's not like when they're 10:34 little and they fall down and 10:36 they get hurt and you can just 10:38 pick them up, I couldn't touch 10:39 them, I-- we were completely 10:43 blocked from each other, 10:45 you know, just the glass was 10:46 separating us and I knew that 10:49 if I showed any kind of 10:51 weakness that it wouldn't be 10:54 good for them and I really 10:56 needed them to stay strong 10:57 'cause I had absolutely no 10:58 idea what we were 11:00 dealing with. 11:02 >> I thought my job was to 11:03 help them to be strong and I 11:05 was just trying to help them 11:07 out of-- allow their minds to 11:11 go somewhere else and just be 11:12 patient because it'll be 11:14 over soon. 11:16 That's all I could give. 11:18 >> We couldn't ask them 11:19 any questions. 11:21 Our conversation was supposed 11:23 to be everything but this big 11:28 problem that we were facing. 11:30 >> And how do you do that? 11:31 (chuckles) 11:33 'Cause you want... 11:35 >> You want answers. 11:37 >> You want the answers right 11:38 there and then and you can 11:40 only look in the eyes to find 11:42 the answers. 11:45 >> But I knew, I knew as soon 11:47 as I saw them, I knew that we 11:50 had to fight tooth and nail 11:52 for them because they didn't 11:55 know what was going on. 11:58 >> The main thing, the most 11:59 important thing was that we 12:02 had to start praying 12:04 like never before. 12:08 [Carol] Murder. 12:11 Not murder, that was way 12:13 too grave, that was way 12:15 too serious. 12:16 Aaron? Zack? 12:18 No, there's gotta be a mistake 12:21 here, somebody made a very big 12:24 mistake here. 12:26 Not those two, not those boys. 12:31 >> I'm Carol Phiri and this is 12:34 my husband. 12:35 >> I'm Finias Phiri and we are 12:38 friends of the Simmonds. 12:40 >> When we met the family, 12:43 they were in elementary and 12:46 they were like brothers to our 12:48 daughters, it felt like they 12:50 were our kids as well. 12:52 >> I remember I was driving on 12:54 the 401 exiting onto Yonge 12:56 Street so I was just on the 12:58 ramp and I got a call from 13:02 Dave Lawrence, he's a family 13:04 friend as well, "Did you hear" 13:06 "about the boys?" 13:08 I'm like, "Hear what?" and he 13:11 said, "Zack and Aaron are" 13:14 "in for second degree murder." 13:18 I was gonna laugh, but right 13:21 away he said, "Hey, this is" 13:23 "not a joke." 13:26 That hit me. 13:28 >> Aaron and Zack are in jail 13:33 for second degree murder. 13:37 Those words, you can't put 13:40 those words in a sentence with 13:42 those boys' names. 13:45 It was hard, it was hard. 13:48 I remember just falling 13:50 apart and my kids just crying 13:55 and my husband just went to 13:59 grab them and we just hugged. 14:04 >> The gravity of it all, 14:06 again, was the fact that 14:07 they were still inside. 14:11 They're still inside, by now 14:13 they should have found out the 14:15 truth, I mean, but see, those 14:17 are the wheels of justice, 14:19 they take their time, 14:21 you know, but they were 14:23 still inside. 14:24 Just one night, one day in 14:27 jail, it's like eternity. 14:31 Now two weeks and second 14:35 degree is gonna be something 14:37 like ten years? 14:39 'Cause, when are they gonna 14:41 clear them, when are they 14:42 gonna say, "Oh, sure, we made" 14:43 "a mistake," you know. 14:45 >> Are they warm? 14:46 Are they eating? 14:49 Who's there, who's talking 14:51 to them? 14:52 Can they get phone calls? 14:54 Can somebody, just somebody, 14:57 can somebody be there 14:58 for them? 15:00 >> When you don't even have 15:01 the means to fix anything, 15:03 you're powerless. 15:04 That's what's the hardest. 15:06 Yeah. 15:10 >> Sorry, sorry. 15:13 So sorry, Mike. 15:25 I just-- I always 15:26 I hate crying, dislike it. 15:32 The Bible tells us that there 15:34 will be no more tears, 15:36 no more sorrow. 15:37 I look forward to that. 15:41 [René] How long were you 15:42 there for, in jail? 15:44 >> Three weeks, almost 15:46 four weeks. 15:47 >> But I feel like I kinda 15:48 just blocked a lot of it out 15:50 of my mind. 15:51 Most of the time I just spent 15:52 in my head. 15:53 A lot of reading, 15:55 a lot of push ups. 15:56 >> There's not much to do in 15:59 jail so you tend to do the 16:02 things you know. 16:04 So read the book-- definitely 16:06 read the Bible a lot, 16:07 started working out more 16:09 'cause I know my dad would get 16:10 on me if I wasn't. 16:13 We started playing chess, 16:15 Scrabble, definitely started 16:17 talking to people. 16:18 You know, just trying to make 16:20 the best of a bad situation. 16:21 You just wanna understand. 16:24 You see a lot, you hear a lot. 16:28 It's about finding that 16:30 balance between not being an 16:31 outlier and not getting 16:34 involved with something you 16:35 wouldn't do on the outside 16:36 'cause people definitely 16:38 lose themselves. 16:39 So much goes on, even if 16:42 you're not involved, you're 16:43 either gonna have to defend 16:45 yourself or you're gonna have 16:46 to do something for someone 16:48 else to retain your position. 16:50 It's very political in there. 16:53 There's a lot of people that 16:54 must be appeased. 16:57 You see what you can deal 17:00 with, how much you can handle. 17:03 [Hollace] When you look at 17:05 what's going on in the world 17:07 around you, when we see what's 17:09 happening in the media, it was 17:11 terrifying, it really, really 17:13 was terrifying and at that 17:15 point in time, as bad as 17:17 things seemed, I was just 17:18 really thankful that they were 17:21 alive and they could speak, 17:22 they knew who we were. 17:24 And even though we couldn't 17:26 hug them, we couldn't talk 17:28 about, you know, what was 17:30 going on, they were still 17:32 whole and we were grateful for 17:34 that because it could have 17:36 been so much worse. 17:38 >> I went to the closet and I 17:39 thought-- I said, "Lord," 17:41 "they need me to be strong." 17:43 And I knelt there and I was 17:46 just in complete tears, just 17:49 bawling, not-- this wasn't 17:51 crying, this was just bawling 17:53 and just asking, "What is" 17:54 "going on?" 17:56 "Give me an answer." 17:58 And as I was there crying, 18:00 crying, crying, I hear this 18:01 voice in my head, said, 18:03 "What are you doing?" 18:04 "You asked Me for an" 18:06 "experience and I'm giving" 18:07 "it to you." 18:09 This is one of the things that 18:10 Hollace and I, we always pray 18:11 for, you know, that God will 18:13 always lead out our kids into 18:16 experiences that will draw 18:18 them to Him. 18:19 That has always been our 18:21 prayer is "Lord, give them" 18:22 "experiences that will draw" 18:24 "them closer to You." 18:25 And so as I heard the voice, 18:29 I got up and I said, 18:32 "What am I doing?" 18:34 And I quickly went to the face 18:36 basin and I washed my face 18:39 and I said, "OK." 18:41 I said, "I understand." 18:44 I said, "OK, I know what" 18:45 "You're doing." 18:47 "I got it." 18:50 And I was able to share with 18:54 Hollace, I said, "I see what" 18:56 "God is doing." 18:58 "We pray for something and" 19:00 "this is what we're getting." 19:02 So I said, you know, "We just" 19:04 "have to be strong through" 19:05 "this, it's gonna be alright." 19:06 "I'm not sure when yet," 19:08 "but it will be." 19:11 >> When I went to the news 19:15 story of it on the internet, 19:19 they were showing a car and 19:23 right there, then and then I 19:25 saw the mistake 'cause that's 19:28 not Aaron's car. 19:30 Aaron has a smaller car, 19:31 it's a hatchback and that car 19:33 was a bigger car. 19:35 I'm like, there's the mistake. 19:37 I, right away I concluded that 19:39 that's the mistake. 19:41 It's not Aaron's car. 19:44 That's where they 19:45 made the mistake. 19:47 >> We were able to get bail 19:48 for the boys, but they were 19:51 not allowed to be together so 19:54 we had to have Aaron housed in 19:56 a separate home. 19:59 So it was a pretty exhausting 20:01 month, you know, trying to 20:03 make sure that they got time, 20:05 you know, after being 20:07 separated so traumatically, 20:09 time with us. 20:10 Somebody always had to be 20:12 with Zachary. 20:14 In this age of technology 20:15 where, you know, they're 20:17 always on laptops, always on 20:18 phones, they could have none 20:19 of that, you know. 20:21 Everything had to be monitored 20:23 and, you know, it was like 20:24 just peaking over their 20:26 shoulder so it was very tiring 20:28 for us and frustrating for 20:30 Zack, especially. 20:33 >> Yeah, it was...it was. 20:37 But thank God they cope. 20:38 (chuckles) 20:41 Yeah, they got through it. 20:42 >> Lots of prayers. 20:44 >> Once the charges finally 20:46 were dropped and you were 20:49 free, how did you feel? 20:55 >> It's time to get back to 20:56 regular real life. 20:59 Honestly, that's, like that's 21:02 the entire time it was just-- 21:04 I wanted to, like, everything 21:06 to be normal. 21:07 >> And just try and bury it. 21:10 >> So move on. 21:12 >> Yeah, try to. 21:14 >> Well, try to move on, yeah. 21:16 Yeah, it still happened, 21:17 still think about it. 21:19 It's just so many, like, so 21:20 much happened that you kinda-- 21:22 There's a lot to reflect on 21:24 and try and piece together and 21:26 make understanding of even if 21:27 there is none. 21:29 >> In every situation, we 21:30 really don't know what the 21:33 lesson is from this, but we 21:36 know that in everything that 21:37 you go through there is a 21:39 lesson so one day maybe we'll 21:41 get to find out why my boys, 21:45 yes, my boys, my boys had to 21:48 go through this, but right now 21:50 we don't know. 21:51 All we know is there are 21:54 moments when God just has to 21:57 show himself to you and when 22:01 He does it, you cannot doubt 22:02 it, you can never say, "Oh," 22:04 "yeah, I had a good lawyer." 22:06 Yes, they did a good job, I'm 22:07 not going to take that away 22:09 from them, but there's higher 22:11 power in everything that we 22:13 go through. 22:15 God just did show His face. 22:18 >> You know one of the things 22:19 that we did when we met with 22:23 the lawyers and though we 22:26 heard good things about the 22:27 lawyers and that they were 22:28 good lawyers... 22:30 >> Excellent things. 22:31 >> When we met with them, 22:33 I asked them if we could pray 22:37 and we prayed that God will, 22:40 you know, guide them through 22:41 all of this. 22:43 The way in which things turned 22:45 out, I think they were even 22:46 puzzled themselves how it 22:48 actually all turned out. 22:50 But, you know, we realize and 22:53 we understand that it was more 22:55 than just good lawyers, it was 22:57 just the power of God working 23:00 and it was just the most 23:01 amazing thing 23:04 to see how God works. 23:06 >> I just remember them 23:08 walking through the doors, 23:10 Aaron with his big, goofy 23:12 smile and Zack just being 23:15 Zack, you know, Mr. Cool, 23:18 you know, "this didn't do" 23:20 "anything to me" kind of look, 23:22 But knowing, you know, he's a 23:24 child, a lot went through-- 23:26 It was-- you know, you just 23:29 say, you know, "God, You are" 23:31 "just amazing." 23:33 "The way You work" 23:34 "is just amazing." 23:36 Seeing them walk through those 23:38 doors was just... 23:41 it was just everything. 23:45 >> It was a really tough time 23:46 that we were going through, 23:48 but through it all, you know, 23:50 I know that God 23:51 was able. 23:54 I knew He was able to 23:55 do something, 23:56 to change something. 23:59 He's always been able before, 24:01 why not now? 24:05 ♪God is able 24:16 ♪God is able and 24:21 ♪He won't fail 24:28 ♪God is able 24:40 ♪God is able and 24:45 ♪He won't fail 24:54 ♪Tell me who can make 24:56 ♪a mountain 24:58 ♪move out of my way 25:03 ♪And who can make a miracle 25:06 ♪because of my faith 25:12 ♪So when the doctor says no 25:14 ♪Who can still say yes 25:18 ♪And when I'm in trouble 25:21 ♪who's right there to help me 25:23 ♪pass every test 25:27 ♪God is able 25:37 ♪God is able and 25:42 ♪He won't fail 25:46 ♪Tell me who can make a river 25:50 ♪out of a little stream 25:54 ♪And who can tell the 25:55 ♪clouds to roll back 25:57 ♪so that the sun 25:59 ♪can look at me 26:03 ♪And who can tell the wind 26:06 ♪to whistle through the trees 26:09 ♪And when I'm in trouble 26:12 ♪who's that same God 26:14 ♪that will come down 26:16 ♪and rescue me 26:18 ♪God is able 26:28 ♪God is able and 26:32 ♪He won't, He won't fail 26:36 ♪No, He won't fail 26:44 ♪He won't fail 26:49 ♪Oh, no no no 26:51 ♪Don't you dare give up 26:53 ♪Don't you dare give in 26:54 ♪God won't fail 27:01 ♪God is able 27:07 ♪God is able and 27:12 ♪He won't 27:16 ♪No, God won't 27:25 ♪He won't fail 27:33 ♪God won't 27:39 ♪He'll never leave 27:42 ♪He'll never forsake you 27:47 ♪No, He won't fail 27:52 ♪He'll be there 27:55 ♪'til the end 27:59 ♪God won't 28:03 ♪He won't fail 28:17 ♪♪ |
Revised 2021-05-12