Participants:
Series Code: IIWC
Program Code: IIWC202425S
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00:01 associate grief
00:03 with death. 00:05 But we know that there are over 00:07 43 different types of grief. 00:10 So when you actually put 00:11 all of them together, 00:12 that's compounded grief. 00:14 And all of that can happen 00:16 in a very short period of time. 00:18 [theme music] 00:21 ♪♪ 00:56 [gentle music] 00:59 ♪♪ 01:02 >> Welcome back to 01:03 It Is Written Canada. 01:05 Thank you for joining us. 01:08 In 1969, 01:09 Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross 01:12 first identified the 01:13 five stages of dying 01:15 in her groundbreaking book 01:17 on death and dying. 01:20 As a psychiatrist, she saw that 01:22 patients who were dying 01:23 appeared to go through 01:25 common experiences 01:26 or stages. 01:29 Working with David Kessler, 01:31 these five experiences were 01:33 adapted to people 01:35 who are grieving. 01:37 >> The five stages of grief they 01:38 identified are, number one, 01:40 denial, shock, and disbelief 01:42 that the death has occurred. 01:43 Number two, anger that 01:45 someone we love is 01:46 no longer here with us. 01:49 Number three, bargaining. 01:50 All the what ifs 01:51 and the regrets. 01:52 And then fourthly, depression, 01:54 sadness from the loss. 01:55 And finally, acceptance. 01:56 Acknowledging the reality 01:58 of the loss. 02:00 >> Today we will be talking to 02:02 Pastor Emile Maxi, a certified 02:05 grief recovery specialist. 02:08 >> Pastor Emile Maxi, thank you 02:09 so much for joining us on 02:11 It Is Written Canada today. 02:12 >> It is a pleasure. 02:14 >> Pastor Maxi, 02:15 I want to begin with those 02:16 five stages of grieving. 02:17 Is it true that people 02:18 go through them in a 02:20 consecutive order? 02:21 They start off with anger and 02:23 then they're at denial 02:25 and then bargaining, depression, 02:27 and then finally acceptance. 02:29 Is it pretty neat like that? 02:32 >> No, not quite. 02:35 In fact, 02:37 the Five Stages of Grief 02:39 actually helps us 02:40 to have a sense of the 02:42 dynamics of grief. 02:43 But... 02:45 ...we all experience grief 02:47 in different ways, so therefore 02:49 we do not 02:51 follow the 02:54 grieving method based on 02:57 the stages as proposed. 03:00 >> Pastor Emile, 03:01 does everyone experience 03:04 some kind of grief? 03:06 Because they are some people 03:08 that have never lost 03:09 a loved one before. 03:12 >> That's a good question. 03:13 Quite often we 03:14 associate grief 03:17 with death. 03:19 But for those of us who are 03:20 associated with the 03:21 Grief Recovery Institute 03:24 of the U.S., we know that there 03:26 are over 43 different types 03:28 of grief. 03:29 So just a few of them... 03:33 ...separation is one, 03:35 divorce is another, 03:37 moving is another, 03:40 loss of job is another... 03:44 ...loss of health is another, 03:46 retirement is another. 03:49 So when you look at the 03:51 43 different types of grief, 03:54 then it's quite extensive. 03:56 >> So could a person go through 03:58 a compound grief experience, 04:00 like one would trigger 04:01 a whole lot of other 04:02 experiences and you could 04:04 have them all within a within 04:06 a short space of time? 04:07 >> Absolutely. 04:09 In fact, let me say, somebody 04:11 who is going through divorce, 04:13 for instance, would experience 04:15 a compound grief as a result of 04:18 the divorce would be one grief 04:19 and having to leave that home... 04:22 ...is another, and having to 04:24 relocate is another, 04:26 and having to live 04:28 a new life without a spouse 04:31 and possibly 04:33 the children, 04:34 without the children, 04:35 that is another. 04:37 So when you actually 04:38 put all of them together, 04:39 that's compounded grief 04:41 and all of that can happen 04:43 in a very short period of time. 04:45 >> So as a grief recovery 04:46 specialist, how would you 04:47 deal with compounded grief? 04:50 >> When you actually look at 04:52 compounded grief because it is 04:54 so complicated and complex, 04:56 so it is impossible to 04:58 deal with all 05:00 at the same time. 05:01 So within the context of 05:03 the grief recovery method... 05:07 ...for us as grief recovery 05:08 specialist, we would look at... 05:11 ...over a period of time. 05:13 Right? 05:13 And... 05:14 ...not once, 05:17 but all the time. 05:18 So we would begin with 05:20 what we call the 05:21 dawn of conscious memory, 05:23 which is translated by way of a 05:25 Loss History Graph. 05:26 It is a line 05:28 that the person would draw, 05:29 and on that line 05:30 a person would put the year 05:33 that the losses occurred 05:35 and for each year the person 05:37 would, or for each loss, 05:38 the person would draw a line. 05:41 The length of the line 05:42 would determine the 05:43 intensity of the loss. 05:45 Right? 05:47 And based on that, 05:47 And based on that, 05:48 we address one at a time 05:50 until we get to help the person 05:52 to address all the 05:54 "unresolved emotional issues" 05:56 associated to that grief. 05:57 >> So you start with 05:58 the longest line. 06:00 You start with the 06:01 most intense grief first. 06:03 >> That is correct. 06:05 >> So, Pastor Emile, 06:07 I guess the question for 06:08 Mike and I is why? 06:11 Why did you become 06:13 a certified grief recovery 06:15 specialist? 06:18 >> Because all of us, 06:19 we experience grief. 06:23 All of us, 100% of us. 06:25 So for me, 06:27 it was based on 06:29 all the issues that I 06:31 had gone through in my life. 06:32 And, most of which... 06:36 ...actually, I would say, 06:39 were inflicted on me 06:41 by my father. 06:42 Right? 06:43 And so when I 06:46 was growing up, 06:48 I went through a lot. 06:50 From, I was 06:52 five years old when I 06:53 lost my mother 06:54 and my father went into... 06:58 ...addiction, by drinking 07:00 and alcohol 07:02 and smoking 07:04 and all the emotional pain that 07:06 he inflicted on me. 07:08 So I grew up way into my 07:10 adulthood with all these 07:12 unresolved emotional issues 07:15 in my life that caused grief. 07:18 And one thing that is 07:19 very important in 07:21 grief recovery, we say, 07:23 because we are all traumatized 07:25 by one way or another, 07:28 so we say 07:30 so we say 07:31 trauma is what happened, 07:33 grief is what lingers. 07:36 So as a result of that, 07:37 we are all living with grief. 07:39 So in my case, because I was 07:41 living with grief and 07:43 causing me to be grieving 07:46 all the time, you know, 07:47 as much as you would not 07:48 be able to tell externally, 07:50 but inside I was dying. 07:52 So I had to find a way to 07:54 deal with my own 07:56 personal issues. 07:58 And I went through 07:59 grief recovery, 08:01 not to help others, 08:02 but to help myself. 08:04 >> So your dad's drinking 08:07 and his response 08:09 to his own grief 08:10 caused him to take out that 08:12 pain that he was feeling on you. 08:15 >> That is correct. 08:17 When you actually look at it, 08:18 it is that when we have 08:19 unresolved emotional issues, 08:21 when we don't deal with them, 08:23 when we don't address them, 08:24 we end up 08:26 inflicting pain 08:28 on others. 08:29 Like in the case of my father, 08:31 because he had his own 08:33 unresolved emotional issues 08:35 and he did not know how to 08:36 deal with them, so therefore he 08:38 inflicted them on me. 08:40 So... 08:42 And again, that's where we talk 08:44 about intergenerational trauma. 08:46 So if I am not careful, 08:48 so the likelihood of me 08:50 inflicting the same 08:52 emotional pain on my children 08:54 would become greater. 08:56 So as a result of that, 08:58 I had to be able to look at that 09:01 square in the face and 09:02 realize that, yes, 09:05 I was 09:08 suffering, 09:09 emotionally suffering. 09:12 And that affected the 09:13 quality of my life, 09:15 and I had to deal with them 09:17 for myself. 09:21 >> Before... 09:23 ...Emile did the grief recovery 09:26 course... 09:29 ...I would say that... 09:32 ...he buried himself in 09:33 a lot of work in order to cover 09:36 all of that 09:38 grief that he was going through. 09:41 He thought that work was 09:42 more important than spending 09:44 a lot of time 09:46 with the kids and family. 09:49 >> You went into grief recovery 09:51 for yourself. 09:52 And how are you different? 09:55 I mean, if you were to 09:56 assess yourself, 09:57 how were you different before 09:58 and now, after? 10:00 >> You know, one of the terms 10:03 that we use in grief recovery 10:05 and of course, are developed by 10:06 the grief recovery method. 10:07 If you were to look at the 10:08 handbook, for instance, 10:09 which we use 10:11 in grief recovery, 10:12 The Grief Recovery Handbook... 10:15 ...there is a term that is used, 10:16 STERBS, Short-Term 10:18 Energy-Relieving Behaviour. 10:21 So when we are grieving, 10:24 we developed mechanisms 10:26 to be able to deal with them. 10:28 For somebody it might be 10:30 drinking like in the case 10:32 of my father, right? 10:33 That was the way for him to 10:35 pacify his pain, 10:36 his emotional pain. 10:38 So when you look at it, 10:40 it is anything that 10:41 helps you to 10:43 pacify the pain so that 10:45 you don't feel it that much. 10:47 And for me, 10:49 one of my 10:52 STERBs, I know for sure, 10:54 was work. 10:57 Right? 10:57 And it's so happens that 11:00 as part of the STERBs, 11:02 workaholism is one of them. 11:04 Right? 11:04 You bury yourself in work 11:06 to the point where 11:09 that's your best way to pacify, 11:11 right, your emotional pain 11:14 so that by the time you 11:15 come to the point where 11:17 it's time to stop working, 11:19 you crash. 11:21 Right? 11:21 And it's so happens that 11:23 many of us experience that. 11:25 But unfortunately, 11:27 STERBs do not help us 11:30 address the problem. 11:32 So one of the things that we do 11:33 in grief recovery is to 11:35 convert the STERBs 11:37 to long term, 11:38 the short-term energy-relieving 11:40 behaviours to long-term 11:41 energy-relieving behaviours. 11:44 And when I was 11:46 able to deal with 11:48 my STERBs... 11:51 ...I realized that 11:53 there was a change. 11:54 In fact, I'll tell you this, 11:55 when I did 11:56 the grief recovery 11:58 for myself 11:59 and my grief recovery specialist 12:02 went through the, 12:04 you know, the steps with me. 12:07 So with that, we look at, 12:09 we start with the basic, 12:11 the foundation so that at least 12:13 we can help 12:15 the "griever," quote-unquote, 12:17 the griever understand 12:19 the myths 12:21 that society 12:23 has passed on to us, 12:26 you know? 12:27 So therefore we look at 12:29 how can we 12:31 demystify those, 12:33 right, in order for them to 12:34 understand the real concept 12:36 of grief. 12:37 And then we look at 12:40 the dawn of conscious memory 12:42 by way of that 12:44 Loss History Graph, 12:45 okay, and we look at that from 12:48 as early as you can recall. 12:50 Two years or five years 12:51 or the different events that you 12:53 had in your life up to today. 12:57 Right? 12:57 And then we look at... 13:02 ...the... 13:04 ...the process that is 13:05 most difficult, 13:07 right, 13:08 is the recovery component, 13:10 right? 13:11 In the recovery component, 13:12 we look at the apologies, 13:15 the forgiveness and the 13:17 significant emotional 13:19 statements, right? 13:20 The things that we wished were 13:22 said or were never said, 13:24 the things that we wished were 13:25 done or never done. 13:27 And as a result of that, 13:28 because of the absence of these 13:31 or the presence thereof, 13:33 therefore that 13:34 causes us to be 13:36 constantly in pain, because 13:38 each time we remember the pain, 13:40 each time we remember the things 13:41 that the person said to us, 13:43 that devalued us, 13:45 that affected us emotionally, 13:47 then it causes grief, 13:48 it causes emotional pain. 13:50 Then we address that. 13:53 And one of the things that 13:54 we also like to look at, 13:56 regardless of what happens 13:58 to you... 14:02 ...it is extremely important 14:04 for you to move on 14:07 from 14:08 your state of grief 14:10 to a state of recovery. 14:12 You have got to take at least 14:13 1% responsibility as to how you 14:16 allow it to affect you. 14:20 >> Pastor Emile, can you give us 14:22 a couple of strategies 14:24 that worked for you and 14:26 for people who you are helping 14:28 to recover from grief? 14:31 >> That's a good question. 14:34 You know, part of the 14:35 grief recovery method, 14:38 strategy, 14:39 is to be able to help 14:42 the griever 14:43 to be able to 14:45 practically deal with 14:47 whatever that they are grieving. 14:52 So hence, 14:54 one of the strategies 14:56 that we use is what we call the 14:58 recovery component. 15:00 In the recovery component, 15:03 which I use, 15:04 not just when I was 15:05 dealing with, 15:07 let's say, for instance, 15:09 the abuses... 15:13 ...from my father 15:15 and all the things that I was 15:17 dealing with as a result of 15:18 all the atrocities inflicted 15:21 on me by him. 15:24 Writing is not just 15:27 therapy, 15:29 it is therapeutic. 15:31 Right? 15:32 So in the recovery component, 15:34 we look at three steps. 15:37 We look at apologies, 15:38 we look at forgiveness, 15:39 and we look at significant 15:41 emotional statements, okay. 15:43 Because... 15:46 ...yes, we talked about... 15:50 ...the STERBs, right, 15:52 the short-term energy-relieving 15:53 behaviours that we all use 15:56 in order to pacify our pain. 15:58 But we want to convert those 16:00 short-term energy-relieving 16:01 behaviours into long-term 16:04 energy-relieving behaviours. 16:06 And that is by way of 16:08 expressing the deep-seated 16:11 emotional issues that we have, 16:13 that we fail to address. 16:16 And we do that by, number one, 16:18 whatever we need to 16:21 apologize for, okay, 16:24 if there is any 16:25 reason to, 16:27 we release that 16:29 and by way of writing, okay. 16:31 And the second is 16:33 by way of 16:35 granting forgiveness. 16:38 Because you cannot heal 16:41 until you really 16:42 extend compassion. 16:43 And compassion 16:45 is expressed by way of 16:47 granting forgiveness. 16:49 Whatever you did to me, 16:52 I choose to 16:54 forgive you so that I myself 16:56 can be free, right? 16:58 And that is very important. 17:00 And the third is 17:03 significant emotional 17:04 statements. 17:05 The things that I wished 17:06 I had said 17:09 or the thing I wish 17:11 that you had said 17:13 or the thing that I wished 17:15 you did not say, right? 17:18 So therefore, 17:19 in the 17:21 significant emotional statement, 17:23 so I address you 17:26 and the beautiful thing 17:27 about this is that 17:29 this can be done whether 17:30 the person is dead or alive. 17:32 And you never have to 17:33 speak to the person. 17:35 Right? 17:35 It's all you 17:37 working on yourself 17:39 and addressing the deep-seated 17:41 emotional issues. 17:43 So by actually 17:45 releasing those, 17:47 you're able to say the things 17:49 that you wished 17:50 you had said, 17:51 but didn't have the courage 17:52 to say. 17:54 >> So, Pastor Maxi, when you're 17:56 talking about going through this 17:58 process of apologizing and 18:00 forgiving, take your own 18:02 example, like your own 18:03 experience with your father, 18:05 what kinds of things did you 18:06 say to him? 18:07 What kind of things did you 18:09 apologize for? 18:10 Ask for forgiveness for? 18:12 How did that look? 18:14 >> You know, I would say, 18:17 like in my case... 18:20 ...because of the 18:22 horrible things that 18:23 my father did to me, 18:26 there are certain things that 18:27 each time they come to my mind, 18:29 it's like, 18:30 it doesn't matter when, 18:31 even now... 18:34 ...just thinking about them 18:36 causes me to choke, right? 18:39 After living 18:40 for years 18:42 with trauma 18:44 and with grief, 18:46 with emotional issues 18:47 inflicted on me by my father. 18:49 So actually, when he died... 18:54 ...I saw the casket going down, 18:56 and in my head, I was actually 18:59 playing the things that I wished 19:01 that he had said to me 19:04 or I had said to him. 19:06 So now, because these things 19:08 were not released, 19:11 so they were internal 19:13 so they caused grief. 19:16 So I did not understand 19:18 how to release those 19:20 until I went through 19:21 grief recovery. 19:22 And then my grief recovery 19:24 specialist at the time said, 19:26 "Well, you have got to 19:27 release them. 19:28 Until you release them, 19:29 you will not be healed." 19:32 So... 19:33 ...I spoke about the 19:36 recovery component, right? 19:38 The recovery components, 19:39 there are three of them 19:41 and I made mention of that. 19:42 The apologies, the forgiveness, 19:45 and the significant emotional 19:47 statement, but the one that is 19:49 the most important for me is 19:51 the recovery letter. 19:54 The recovery letter is 19:55 a letter that I, 19:57 that I would write to my father 19:59 to express 20:01 the same three components, 20:04 but I verbalize them 20:07 in writing 20:08 as if I'm writing to him, 20:10 as if he is in front of me. 20:13 So in that... 20:16 ...I said something like, 20:18 "Dad... 20:22 ...I would like to... 20:25 ...thank you... 20:27 ...for... 20:29 ...having brought me 20:30 into this life. 20:34 I'm very sorry 20:36 for the fact that 20:37 our relationship was not what 20:40 I would have liked it to be. 20:43 I would have liked to learn how 20:45 to be a father, how to be a son, 20:47 how to be a husband, 20:49 how to be a good citizen. 20:53 But I understand that 20:55 you were not able to offer that 20:57 to me. 20:59 I... 21:01 ...choose to forgive you 21:03 for all the 21:04 emotional pain... 21:07 ...inflicted on me. 21:10 But I realize that they have 21:12 been causing me much pain 21:14 and suffering. 21:15 The time has come for me to 21:18 let them go 21:19 so that I can live... 21:21 ...the life that God created me 21:23 to live. 21:24 So I choose to forgive you. 21:28 I... 21:31 ...I know 21:32 it might be difficult... 21:34 ...but I understand 21:35 at the same time 21:37 that until 21:39 I forgive, 21:40 I cannot live." 21:43 So the 21:45 significant emotional 21:47 statements are the things that 21:49 I wished I had said to my father 21:52 but never got to say, 21:54 or I wished my father would have 21:56 said to me but never got to say. 21:58 So I release those statements 22:01 either on my part, right, 22:03 to him 22:05 thinking that is in front of me. 22:06 Right? 22:07 And this to me is very powerful. 22:09 And of course, I─ we usually 22:11 refer to 22:13 the things that 22:15 or the process of grief recovery 22:17 as tools. 22:19 These are tools that are 22:21 placed in our hands to be able 22:22 to help us address the things 22:23 that happened in our lives 22:25 or the things that happened 22:26 in our lives. 22:27 So as a result of that, 22:28 I am looking at... 22:33 ...the fact that life is 22:34 difficult. 22:35 And, from one grief 22:37 to another, 22:39 and when we have the tool, 22:40 we are able to know 22:42 when to use them 22:43 when things are thrown at us. 22:45 >> So after you went through 22:46 all of that, there must have 22:47 been a lot of tears. 22:51 And that was holding you back, 22:53 as you said. 22:54 How did you feel after that was 22:56 all gone after you went through 22:57 that process? 23:00 >> I would say grief recovery is 23:01 probably one of the best things 23:02 that I did for myself 23:04 because it helped 23:07 me to address 23:08 the unresolved 23:10 emotional issues 23:12 in my life. 23:14 Because I work on myself 23:17 constantly and daily, 23:19 I'll tell you this, 23:20 I have a peace that I cannot 23:21 explain to anybody, 23:23 I cannot explain to anybody, 23:25 which I didn't have before. 23:27 And that peace gives me 23:28 a sense of calm... 23:32 ...right, that... 23:36 ...allows me to live 23:38 the way that God intended me, 23:39 for me to live. 23:42 >> Since he did that course, 23:44 like a lot of things 23:45 have changed in him. 23:47 There's just this peace 23:48 that he has, 23:49 this aura of peace that he has. 23:53 He's able to sit with his girls 23:55 and talk with them 23:57 just about any topic that 23:59 you can think of. 24:00 He is able to now sit 24:02 and discuss, 24:04 agree to disagree, 24:06 and have that relationship 24:09 that he had. 24:10 But I must say that 24:12 with all the grief 24:15 that he went through, 24:17 one would think that a man 24:19 who goes through that trauma, 24:21 especially with his father, 24:23 would be abusive, 24:24 would be... 24:26 ...arrogant, aggressive 24:29 and all of that. 24:30 I never experienced that. 24:32 And what I admire about Emile 24:34 is that he was always looking 24:36 for ways to better himself. 24:39 It's a work in progress. 24:42 But because he has overcome 24:43 most of what he went through, 24:46 through going through this 24:47 process of grief recovery, 24:50 he is now able to 24:52 pass this on to others 24:54 and to help others. 24:56 >> Whatever 24:59 is causing your grief, 25:00 whether it is death of a 25:02 loved one, whether it is 25:04 separation or divorce or moving, 25:07 or a loss of health 25:08 or retirement or loss of pet, 25:10 and the list goes on, 25:12 I would say... 25:15 ...it is a choice. 25:18 Healing yourself from any 25:19 emotional pain is a choice. 25:21 You have got to choose... 25:24 ...to let go 25:26 so that you can 25:28 be who God created you to be. 25:30 >> Thank you very much. 25:31 Before you go, I wonder if 25:32 you could pray. 25:34 Pray for our viewers. 25:35 There may be someone who's 25:36 listening, who is going through 25:38 grieving right now. 25:40 Pray for them that they can 25:41 experience this recovery, 25:43 this healing that you have 25:45 experienced and that God wants 25:47 them to experience. 25:48 >> I'll be happy to. 25:50 Father in heaven, 25:52 thank You so much for Your love. 25:54 Thank You so much for all that 25:55 You are to us. 26:00 At this moment, I want to 26:01 present before you 26:03 all those who are listening, 26:06 who might be experiencing grief 26:08 of whatever nature, 26:09 You know them by name and 26:10 by nature. 26:12 I'm asking You, heavenly Father, 26:13 that You would help them to 26:14 address the unresolved 26:16 emotional issues 26:19 of their lives. 26:21 May You send their way 26:22 someone who can be able to help. 26:25 May You give them the desire 26:26 to address these issues 26:28 so that they can live a life 26:30 that is free of... 26:34 ...emotional pain, 26:36 so that they can be at peace 26:38 and receive the peace that 26:39 passes all understanding. 26:41 I ask that You will 26:42 stretch forth Your mighty hands 26:43 and pronounce a very special 26:45 blessing upon them now, 26:47 because I ask in Jesus' name. 26:49 Amen. 26:51 [MIKE & RENÉ] Amen. 26:52 >> Pastor Emile, thank you 26:54 so much for joining us on 26:55 It Is Written Canada. 26:57 >> It's my pleasure. 27:01 >> Friends, whenever life 27:02 doesn't make sense or I'm 27:04 feeling down and discouraged 27:06 or even feeling overwhelmed 27:08 with grief, 27:09 I pick up this little book, 27:10 Help In Daily Living. 27:12 And we would like to send 27:14 this book to you free of charge. 27:17 >> If you're feeling like the 27:19 wheels are falling off and 27:21 your life is becoming unglued, 27:23 or if your wheels are 27:25 simply spinning 27:26 and you're not getting anywhere, 27:28 you'll find solutions 27:30 in this little book, 27:32 our free offer, 27:33 Help In Daily Living. 27:37 >> Before you go, we would also 27:38 like to thank all of you 27:40 who have supported the ministry 27:42 of It Is Written Canada 27:43 with your prayers and 27:44 financial contributions. 27:45 Without your support, 27:47 this television ministry 27:48 could not have reached 27:50 so many people 27:51 for so many decades. 27:54 >> Yes, thank you. 27:56 And we would also like to 27:57 invite you to follow us on 27:59 Instagram and Facebook 28:01 and subscribe to our 28:02 YouTube channel 28:04 and also listen to our podcasts. 28:07 And if you go to our website, 28:09 you can see our latest programs. 28:14 >> Friends, if you want 28:15 the kind of healing that 28:16 Pastor Emile Maxi experienced, 28:18 we recommend that you open 28:20 the Bible, God's word, 28:22 where it is recorded that 28:23 Jesus found His assurance to 28:25 defeat the devil through 28:27 the Word of His Father 28:29 when He declared... 28:41 [gentle music] 28:43 ♪♪ |
Revised 2025-03-19