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Series Code: IIWSS
Program Code: IIWSS022131S
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00:00 (inspirational theme music)
00:13 >>Welcome to "Sabbath School," 00:14 brought to you by It Is Written. 00:16 We're delighted to have you with us, 00:18 as we begin a brand new quarter, 00:20 and the subject that we're looking at this quarter 00:23 is a fascinating one. 00:25 It is one about which there is 00:27 a great deal of misunderstanding. 00:30 There is some apprehension, and yet 00:32 there's also a lot of peace and encouragement. 00:35 This quarter, we're looking at the subject 00:37 of "Death, Dying, and the Future Hope." 00:40 And here on our "Sabbath School" program, 00:42 we are delighted to have the author 00:44 of this quarter's lesson, Dr. Alberto Timm. 00:47 He is an associate director of the Ellen G. White Estate. 00:52 Dr. Timm, welcome. We're delighted to have you with us. 00:55 >>I am very delighted to be with you. 00:57 It's a pleasure for me to be able to join you. 01:00 >>So this is an interesting subject, the subject of death. 01:04 A lot of people wonder about it. 01:06 A lot of people worry about it. 01:08 A lot of people feel that they've pretty well got it down 01:11 and understand it and have it all figured out and so forth, 01:15 and yet it is a subject that we wanna spend some time on 01:18 because even when we think we've got it all figured out, 01:21 there may be some things for us to learn and maybe 01:24 some things that we could share with others, as well. 01:27 So give us an idea of kind of the scope 01:30 of where we're going to be going this quarter. 01:32 We've got 13 weeks ahead of us, 13 lessons, 01:35 13 studies on this subject. 01:37 What are some things that we're going to be covering, 01:40 and why is this so important? 01:43 >>Actually, we are covering many different subjects, 01:48 especially when it comes to the theories 01:51 that are available today. 01:54 There are many different perspectives that we have, 01:58 and world religions around the globe 02:02 have proposed different approaches to it, 02:04 different understandings of what happens 02:07 when somebody dies. 02:10 But what we really want to do is to cover the Bible, 02:14 what the Bible has to say, and how the Bible explains it 02:18 within the framework of the great 02:21 cosmic historical controversy between good and evil. 02:27 And I think that this is a major topic for us to understand 02:31 due to the many different expressions 02:35 of mysticism, spiritualism, different theories that we have 02:40 since the most remote times of human history. 02:45 So I think that we need, really, 02:47 to have a clear understanding of the Bible concept 02:50 of this topic in a time where we have a huge mosaic 02:55 of philosophical and ideological 02:59 proposition expressions. 03:02 >>So we're launching into this right now, 03:04 and we're kind of studying, at least loosely, 03:07 the "Sabbath School" Adult Sabbath School 03:10 Bible Study Guide, the quarterly studies, as it were, 03:14 but this didn't just happen. 03:16 I mean, a quarterly didn't just appear one day. 03:21 It had an origin. So how far back does this lesson go? 03:25 When did it kind of start coming into being? 03:28 What was the impetus that caused it to be and so forth? 03:32 Give us a little history. 03:34 >>Well, some four years, I don't know exactly the date, 03:38 but my friend Cliff Goldstein asked me to write 03:41 a Sabbath school quarterly, 03:43 and we discussed a few possibilities, 03:46 and finally he said, "I want you to write on this topic, 03:51 the state of the dead." 03:54 And then I asked him, "But why do you want me 03:56 to do something on this matter?" 03:58 He said, "Because there is a need. 04:01 "Many people worldwidely are really having doubts, 04:05 "asking questions. They are faced with this kind of... 04:10 "even near-death experiences that are available today-- 04:14 "or very much popular in our days-- 04:17 "and other kinds of experiences. 04:20 "People in different places of the world 04:22 "have influences from different world religions 04:26 "that do not fit with the Bible, 04:29 "and we need a solid ground from the Bible 04:32 to understand this topic." 04:34 So that was the beginning of the whole process. 04:37 And of course, it took time, really, 04:39 to dig into it from a historical perspective 04:44 a little bit and also from the biblical, 04:47 what the Bible has to say. 04:51 >>So it's been several years in the making. 04:53 It's a subject that has plagued humanity 04:56 with misconceptions over the years, 04:58 and misconceptions still exist today, 05:01 different mindsets, different worldviews, 05:03 different philosophies, as you mention, 05:05 and our first lesson here really kind of lays 05:10 the framework or the groundwork or the foundation 05:13 for where we're gonna be going over 05:15 the course of the next several weeks. 05:17 It's called "Rebellion in a Perfect Universe." 05:22 So God, we know, is good. 05:25 What he makes is good, good, and very good. 05:28 He knows the end from the beginning, 05:31 but yet we have this problem of sin; 05:35 we have this problem of death 05:36 that we see in existence today. 05:40 How do we explain this good and evil, 05:43 this right and wrong that we see in the world today, 05:46 sometimes even a blending of the two? 05:50 Somehow sin happened--I don't know if that's the word 05:54 that I feel completely comfortable with, 05:56 but I lack a better one at the moment. 05:58 How did this begin? 06:00 Why are we in the situation that we're in right now? 06:05 >>Some people believe that evil started 06:08 in the Garden of Eden. 06:10 But you have to remember that at the Garden of Eden, 06:13 there was, prior to the fall of Adam and Eve, 06:17 there was a serpent, and then comes the question, 06:20 "And what was the origin of the serpent 06:24 tempting Adam and Eve?" 06:26 So it brings us back into some kind of-- 06:33 I don't know if we should call it a proto-history-- 06:36 but prior to human history, there was something going on. 06:40 Of course, there are different theories. 06:42 For instance, some people say that evil is just an illusion. 06:48 There is no evil, as such. 06:50 Other ones say that God and evil are co-eternal, 06:57 so they did not have a beginning, 06:58 and some people even arguing this way: 07:03 If there is good, 07:05 for good to be considered as such, 07:09 to be good, it has to always exist in contrast to evil. 07:14 So evil would be co-eternal with good. 07:17 And other ones even argue that God is the source of both, 07:22 good and evil. 07:25 But if we study the Bible, and we have many passages 07:28 that deal with this, the Bible is very clear 07:31 of saying that evil is not eternal. 07:35 It had a beginning, and the beginning took place 07:39 with an angel in heaven called Lucifer, 07:43 who rebelled against God and who really was 07:48 the beginning of everything and even convinced 07:51 other angelic beings, and finally it came to this earth. 07:55 So this is just a framework for us to start our discussion. 08:00 >>You speak of Lucifer kind of being part 08:04 of the origin of evil. 08:06 Our memory verse for this week is from the book of Isaiah. 08:09 It's Isaiah, chapter 14 and verse number 12. 08:13 I'm gonna go ahead and read that here. 08:15 Isaiah 14, verse 12 says, "How you are fallen from heaven, 08:19 "O Lucifer, son of the morning! 08:21 "How you are cut down to the ground, 08:23 you who weakened the nations!" 08:26 So here's this picture of Lucifer, 08:30 a perfect being, God created a perfect being, 08:33 but then something happened. 08:37 What kind of evidence do we have in the Bible of-- 08:40 or do we have evidence in the Bible of what happened 08:43 or why it happened or how it happened 08:45 or what, how did sin get in here? 08:48 How did rebellion have 08:51 an initial starting point or something along those lines? 08:58 >>When it comes to the beginning, 08:59 and you remember that neither of us was alive when it came 09:06 into existence, so we are dependent of the eyewitnesses, 09:11 and no better than God himself, who was there 09:13 when these things happened. 09:15 And actually, we have three key Bible passages 09:20 that help us to understand the origin of evil. 09:24 And one of those is Ezekiel, chapter 28. 09:30 And that chapter is a very significant one. 09:34 In there, it speaks about the earthly king of Tyre. 09:40 And that king was considered himself, 09:44 he was considering himself as a god, 09:47 somebody that really was very powerful and who really 09:53 ended up very proud of his beauty, 09:58 his power, his whatever else you want to add. 10:02 But it's very interesting, the movement in this chapter-- 10:06 and you can study it later on-- 10:08 I am referring to Ezekiel, chapter 28, 10:12 and this earthly king then later on 10:16 assumes as a symbol, as a type, 10:20 as a figure of an angelical being. 10:25 So, this earthly king represented an angelic being, 10:29 and that being really was very proud of himself, 10:33 of his beauty, his wisdom, and so on. 10:39 And there you see immediately 10:41 that kind of change from the earthly to the heavenly realms. 10:47 You have something similar also in Isaiah, chapter 14. 10:50 And there now is the king of Babylon, another earthy king, 10:57 and he also was a symbol of Lucifer. 11:01 Either it starts with a human being, 11:04 and then it moves to angelical being. 11:07 So that kind of transition in the chapter 11:10 is very significant and we have to take into consideration. 11:15 But then you go to chapter 12 of the book of Revelation. 11:20 In there it says that there was actually some kind 11:24 of war in heaven, 11:26 not only a clash of ideas, of ideologies, 11:30 but it was really an actual war, the chapter says. 11:33 And there was Michael fighting against 11:37 this Lucifer or dragon, the old serpent, and finally 11:42 he was expelled from heaven. 11:45 So that was basically the beginning of it. 11:48 It was in the heavenly courts that it happened, 11:51 and it then later on spread to this earth. 11:56 >>And so we're living in the middle of that right now, 11:58 and, Alberto, you made mention of Ezekiel, chapter 28. 12:01 I'm gonna read just a couple of short passages here. 12:04 They're fascinating. 12:05 In Ezekiel 28, it says in verse number 12, 12:08 "You were the seal of perfection"--the seal of perfection-- 12:13 "full of wisdom and perfect in beauty." 12:16 Then drop down to verse number 14. 12:18 It says, "You were the anointed cherub who covers; 12:21 "I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; 12:24 "you walked back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones. 12:27 "You were perfect in your ways 12:30 "from the day you were created, 12:33 till iniquity was found in you." 12:36 We're gonna come back in just a couple of minutes 12:39 and look at this concept of perfection 12:43 that God had brought into existence, 12:46 and Lucifer here was a perfect being, 12:50 and yet somehow in the midst of this perfection, 12:53 somehow imperfection reared its head, 12:57 and we're gonna dig into that when we come back 12:59 in just a moment, but before we go 13:00 to our quick break, I wanna encourage you 13:03 if you are interested or if you know someone 13:05 who is really interested in digging into this subject 13:08 more deeply, I wanna encourage you to pick up 13:11 the companion book to this quarter's Bible study guide. 13:14 It is called "On Death, Dying, and the Future Hope," 13:18 and of course the author is Dr. Alberto Timm, 13:21 who is our guest here on "Sabbath School" today. 13:24 You can pick that up at itiswritten.shop. 13:28 Again, that's itiswritten.shop. 13:30 The name of the companion book, 13:31 "On Death, Dying, and the Future Hope." 13:34 We're going to be back in just a moment 13:36 as we look more deeply into this concept 13:39 of perfection and how imperfection came from it. 13:43 We'll be right back. 13:44 (inspirational theme music) 13:48 >>[Melissa Bradshaw] If you enjoy coloring, 13:49 then you're going to love the Buried Treasure Coloring Book 13:52 from My Place With Jesus. 13:54 The Buried Treasure Coloring Book 13:56 has more than just pictures to color. 13:58 You'll also enjoy activity pages, 14:00 each accompanied by their very own audio story. 14:03 >>[John Bradshaw] "Mr. Dixon came across a small 14:05 well-weeded rice patch out in the middle of a field." 14:10 >>[Melissa] Get ahead of a rainy day 14:11 or a relaxing evening as a family 14:13 and order the Buried Treasure Coloring Book 14:16 from It Is Written. 14:19 >>[John Bradshaw] More and more people are watching 14:21 It Is Written TV. 14:23 They're watching their favorite It Is Written programs, 14:26 listening to inspiring sermon series, and much more. 14:30 They're watching them here, here, and even here. 14:34 See for yourself why people are turning 14:36 to It Is Written TV to watch their favorite 14:39 Christian programs live and on demand. 14:42 Watch It Is Written TV for free anytime 14:44 on Roku, Apple TV, and at itiswritten.tv. 14:49 (inspirational theme music) 14:54 >>Welcome back to "Sabbath School," 14:55 brought to you by It Is Written. 14:57 We are continuing our study into a brand new quarter 15:01 looking at "Death, Dying, and the Future Hope," 15:05 and we left off with this question 15:07 about if God created everything perfect, 15:09 including Lucifer, what happened? 15:13 So, how do we understand this concept 15:17 of evil in a perfect universe? 15:24 Alberto, can you help us to understand that 15:24 a little bit better? 15:27 >>I don't, can't help you to understand 15:31 for one simple reason. (chuckles) 15:34 Evil is something absolutely mysterious. 15:38 There is no way for us to explain the origin of evil. 15:43 We can, of course, say we know with whom it started. 15:48 Basically, it was in heaven, 15:52 but the evil really exists but has no way 15:57 to be explained as such. 15:59 It has a mysterious, unreasonable 16:04 understanding and beginning. 16:07 In this way, some theologians-- 16:10 and I refer, for instance, to Berkouwer, 16:13 is a Dutch theologian. He even says that there is no reason, 16:18 there is no way of explaining it, 16:20 and Ellen White says, "If we would be able to find 16:24 "a reasonable way of explaining evil, 16:29 we would end up justifying the existence of evil." 16:34 So it has no reason to exist as such. 16:38 It is absolutely mysterious. 16:39 What we know is that God created human beings, 16:44 including Lucifer and the rebellious angels, with free will, 16:50 and they misused free will, but how it happened 16:56 is something that's absolutely unexplainable. 16:59 >>I think for dealing with something that is unexplainable, 17:03 you did an excellent job of explaining that concept. 17:06 It's something that, if we could explain it, 17:08 somehow it would cease to--it would seem like, 17:13 as you said, it would seem justifiable, 17:15 because we could say, "Okay, now I understand why." 17:18 But there is no understanding why. 17:20 It simply is, and it came into being. 17:24 But let's step back just a little bit. 17:27 We know that Lucifer rebelled. 17:28 He became Satan, he became the adversary, 17:31 he became the devil, a perfect angel God created, 17:34 and he rebelled, but then sometimes 17:39 people ask the question, "But didn't God know 17:42 "that Lucifer would rebel? 17:43 "If God knows the end from the beginning, 17:46 "if he knew what was going to happen, 17:49 "why did he create Lucifer to begin with? 17:53 "Or why did he create Lucifer with the ability 17:56 to do what he did? Why didn't God just not create him 18:01 and save us all this pain and anguish?" 18:04 How would you answer someone who asked a question like that? 18:08 >>There are several elements that we have to bring together 18:11 to understand this matter better. 18:15 One of those is the very nature of God. 18:18 God is love, and you know that love 18:22 cannot live in isolation. 18:25 Love only exists if it's expressed to somebody, 18:30 and to express it, 18:32 the person has to be receptive to love, 18:36 should respond also, and this does not happen with machines 18:42 or what--things--or if somebody would not have free will, 18:47 would not work either. 18:48 So God created beings, angelical beings in heaven, 18:53 and human beings also, capable of responding. 18:57 But granting free will to somebody always face the risk, 19:02 and that was the case of God. 19:04 But at the same time, God is love, 19:08 and he would like to face this risk. 19:12 Of course, God knows the end from the beginning, 19:16 and God was not taken by surprise. 19:19 He knew that Lucifer would rebel, but even so, 19:23 he faced the risk and created him, 19:27 because God's foreknowledge, 19:30 or his knowledge of the future, 19:33 is absolute but is not causative. 19:36 Some people say, "Well, if God knew and created, 19:39 then he's responsible for evil." 19:42 Not the case. For one reason, 19:46 because he was the one that would have to pay the price 19:51 for the rebellion of Lucifer, 19:53 and that is what he paid on the cross 19:56 through the life and death of Jesus Christ. 20:00 But remember, God knows the future. 20:03 It's something like let's suppose 20:05 that you decide to get married. 20:08 You know that sometimes marriage does not work, 20:11 but for the sake of love, 20:14 because you love somebody, 20:17 even knowing that there are possibilities, 20:19 you want to face the risk. 20:24 >>So God didn't, God's not responsible for evil. 20:27 He's not responsible for death. 20:29 He's not responsible for sin. 20:32 But Lucifer exercised his freedom to choose, 20:37 and he exercised it, we might say, poorly, 20:40 and as a result of that, we live in the world 20:43 that we live in today. 20:46 Let's take a look at evil, at sin, 20:50 at death from a slightly different perspective here. 20:54 God is eternal. 20:55 He had no beginning, and he has no end. 21:01 We live in a universe that, at least as far 21:04 as we're aware, had some sort of a beginning. 21:06 It's continuing through the time that we're in right now, 21:09 and something's going to happen to it in the future. 21:11 What about evil? 21:13 How does evil fit into this cosmic timeline 21:19 that we find ourselves in? We know that it had a beginning, 21:22 because we read about that in the Bible, 21:23 in the several passages you talked about, 21:25 in Ezekiel and Isaiah and Revelation, chapter 12. 21:28 Evil had a beginning. 21:30 Is it reasonable to hope, dare we hope, 21:34 that evil is also going to have an end at some point? 21:38 >>Definitely so, 21:41 because evil was never a part of God's plan. 21:47 Some people claim that evil is part of God's plan 21:51 through predestination because then 21:53 he could show his love, but God does not need evil 21:58 to show his love because he could really show 22:00 his love, and he did so prior to the rebellion of Lucifer, 22:05 his angels, and then later on human beings as well. 22:11 But there is one crucial point in this whole discussion. 22:16 Within this great controversy 22:18 between God and Satan, good and evil, 22:24 Satan decided to accuse God of being unjust, 22:30 that his own model of government 22:32 would be far better than God. 22:35 God was very much into follow his own agenda, 22:39 his rules, and so on, and then Lucifer showed up 22:43 offering some better form of government. 22:47 And that was the beginning of evil, 22:51 and throughout human history, you could ask 22:54 the question, for instance, "But, okay, 22:57 "that God allowed evil to appear, 23:00 but why did he not stop it immediately 23:06 or in the past?" 23:07 Well, we don't have answers to all the questions 23:10 that we raise because we are in a mysterious topic, 23:15 and we can only study mysteries 23:18 as long as the Bible takes us. 23:21 But what we know is that God allowed evil 23:25 to continue throughout human history because evil 23:29 has to mature and show its very nature. 23:34 And I think that we are living today 23:36 in one of the most crucial moments of human history, 23:40 where our society, our world, 23:44 our political systems are really almost collapsing. 23:48 And it will come to a point where it really would be 23:52 either God intervenes in human history, 23:55 or humanity will out to destroy or self-destroy 24:00 themselves, I mean, the human race. 24:06 But, as I mentioned before, God never planned 24:09 evil to exist. He only allowed it to exist. 24:14 So, since it's not part of God's plan, 24:18 definitely he's planning to put an end on it, 24:23 and he knows exactly when, 24:25 and human history is a long process where good 24:29 and evil is struggling, and each one, 24:32 good and evil, is demonstrating their own nature, 24:36 and finally evil will be destroyed. 24:38 And this is the topic that we'll be studying 24:41 throughout this quarter. 24:44 >>So that's encouraging. 24:45 We know that evil is going to one day be destroyed. 24:48 The bad news is, if we can call it bad news-- 24:50 I think it's appropriate--right now 24:52 we're living in a world that seems to be 24:55 just inundated with evil and sin. 24:58 So we've looked briefly at Lucifer's rebellion in heaven. 25:01 What lessons can we learn about Lucifer's rebellion 25:06 in heaven that we could apply to our lives to help us 25:09 not head that same direction? 25:12 >>Well, there are different explanations to why 25:15 or the way how Lucifer really started his rebellion, 25:19 but I like a thought that is that he actually lost, 25:24 in a mysterious way, as we mentioned before, 25:28 his thankfulness to God. He was no longer thankful to God. 25:34 And in other words, he considered himself more important 25:38 that God really considered him, or than he was, 25:42 so proudness was a key element in his nature. 25:48 And I tell you something, in life, 25:50 the worst thing that can happen to you and to me 25:54 is if we start considering us as more important 25:58 than we are, than we actually are. 26:01 And sometimes we believe, "Well, 26:03 "I should have more recognition, 26:05 be more recognized in my work here and there." 26:08 I always say the following: 26:11 When I was a teacher, a professor of theology, 26:15 I used to say, "Well, prepare yourself 26:19 "the more you can, to the most, 26:24 but don't expect too much and you will never be frustrated." 26:28 It does not mean that you cannot have ideals, 26:32 but remember, proudness is the worst thing 26:36 that can happen in your life and in my life. 26:41 But one thing that amazes me from all this 26:45 is that even knowing 26:48 the nature of Satan, 26:52 God decided to create him because he loves 26:56 not only his own friends but even his enemies, 27:00 and this is the pattern of love that we should have. 27:05 God loves even his enemies, and I tell you something. 27:08 You might be surprised about this. 27:10 He loves his greatest enemy, that is Satan, 27:14 and this is the pattern, as I mentioned, of love 27:17 that Christ in the sermon on the mountain mentioned, 27:20 that we should have as well. 27:23 >>Dr. Timm, I wanna thank you for joining us today 27:26 on our study through the Sabbath school lesson, 27:29 and we, of course, are going to be welcoming you back again 27:32 next week and the week after 27:34 and the week after as we continue looking 27:36 at "Death, Dying and the Future Hope." 27:39 And we also hope that you will join us week after week 27:42 as we continue to find encouragement and hope 27:46 in God's Word as we unpack it and learn more about him 27:50 and his plan for your life. God bless you. 27:52 Have a wonderful day, and we'll look forward 27:54 to seeing you again next time on "Sabbath School," 27:57 brought to you by It is Written. 27:59 (inspirational theme music) 28:26 (music ends) |
Revised 2022-09-22