Participants: Jim Reinking
Series Code: LDS
Program Code: LDS000020
10:00 Scholars have pretty much agreed that
10:02 probably they were located in the plain
10:05 that now lies under the Dead Sea.
10:08 And let me tell you under the Dead Sea
10:10 there is nothing burning,
10:13 undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
10:17 Again we are going to allow the Bible
10:19 to interpret itself, right.
10:20 I am gonna share with you two passages that relate
10:23 to what happened to the wicked inhabitants
10:25 of Sodom and Gomorrah going back to Genesis 19:17.
10:29 Remember the angels came to get Lot
10:31 and his family out of the city before the destruction
10:33 and they said to Lot and his family.
10:35 "He said, 'Escape for your life,
10:38 look not behind thee,
10:39 neither stay thou in all the plain,
10:41 escape to the mountain,
10:43 lest thou be" what? "Consumed. "
10:47 So what happened to the wicked inhabitants?
10:50 The Bible says the angel said they were going to be consumed.
10:54 We are gonna compile a list tonight.
10:56 You may want to do this in your notes
10:58 and we are gonna take the words straight of the Bible,
11:00 we are not gonna be interpretive about it.
11:02 We are just gonna take the language
11:03 as we find it in the scriptures
11:05 and it's gonna be text after text as you can see
11:07 by looking at your notes.
11:09 And so the first word we want to add up there
11:12 is the word, "Consume. "
11:13 Do remember in Jude 7 it says,
11:15 "They are exhibited as an example to us. "
11:18 An example of what is going to happen
11:20 to the wicked in the end time.
11:23 Do you know that Jesus
11:25 dealt with this issue of what happened
11:27 to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah?
11:30 As you will find it as we,
11:33 we look to Luke 17 the New Testament page 62.
11:37 Page 62, Luke 17
11:39 and we are gonna look at verse 29.
11:42 Luke 17:29 were Jesus said
11:49 "But on the day that Lot went out form Sodom
11:53 it rained fire and brimstone
11:55 from heaven and destroyed them all. "
11:59 What happened to them?
12:01 The keyword here is the key, is the word what?
12:04 Destroyed, Destroyed.
12:08 And so we are going to add that to the list, "Destroyed. "
12:12 Again it's the term we are not
12:14 you know again gonna be highly interpretive at all
12:18 but what the Bible teaches on this.
12:20 And then let's take a look at 2 Thessalonians 1,
12:22 the New Testament page 161,
12:26 161, 2 Thessalonians 1:9.
12:33 Thessalonians and of course one of those letters that Paul wrote
12:37 we have two letters that he wrote
12:40 to the Thessalonians and here in 2 Thessalonians,
12:44 it says in 1 and just come down right there to verse 9
12:48 and again its talking about the wicked.
12:51 It says "These will pay
12:53 the penalty of eternal destruction,
12:57 away from the presence of the Lord
12:59 and from the glory of His power."
13:02 Take out these terms, "Eternal Destruction."
13:06 Okay, we looked at three texts.
13:09 We got in a little sense of the drift again.
13:11 You know again I'm using that
13:13 illustration of the post line.
13:14 We have got three post down.
13:15 We are beginning here little bit
13:17 of the sense of the direction where this may be going.
13:20 You do have a clue where we are going right,
13:22 based on this view opening text.
13:24 But I have got a lot more that I am gonna share with you
13:27 but you might think to yourself
13:29 how about Revelation 20:10 that
13:31 we began with where it says they will,
13:34 you know, for ever, and ever.
13:35 I mean that seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it?
13:40 Now remember we not only look at the text
13:42 but we need also being considering the context.
13:46 So let's go back and look at this text in this context.
13:49 Back to Revelation 20, that's the New Testament page 200,
13:53 page 200 and Revelation 20
13:55 and we are going to look at the previous verse.
13:57 Not verse 10 where we were but the previous verse.
14:01 And I want to point out something
14:03 as we studied the millennium you will remember
14:05 that we discover the Bible teaches that
14:07 at the end of the thousand year period of time,
14:09 who is that that is resurrected?
14:12 Who is resurrected at the end of the thousand years?
14:16 The wicked.
14:17 And why are they resurrected?
14:19 For the purpose of judgment, that's right.
14:21 Okay, this is the context they have been resurrected.
14:25 This is their final punishment as
14:27 what's being referred to here.
14:29 And remember Satan is lose for short time,
14:31 in verse 7 it talks about that he is lose for short time
14:34 and the wicked are resurrected, He goes out and organizes
14:37 and that they go up against the encamped at the saints.
14:40 Remember, the New Jerusalem
14:42 and the people of God have come down from heaven to earth
14:44 and they are determined
14:46 they are gonna fight this out to the end.
14:48 This is the context.
14:49 Verse 9 "And they"
14:51 the wicked "came up on the broad plain of the earth
14:53 and surrounded the camp of the saints
14:56 and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven"
15:01 and did what to them?
15:04 "Devoured them" is what the Bible says.
15:08 So let's add that to our list.
15:11 The bible says "they will be devoured."
15:15 Now I want to sure we really understand
15:17 what we are talking about
15:18 so, let me give you
15:19 a just a simple but practical illustration.
15:22 After years of training and education,
15:25 four years of undergraduate work in theology,
15:28 two year internship, out in the field
15:32 followed by another two years masters program
15:36 and another two years of internship
15:39 they finally gave me my own district.
15:42 I've been associated pastor up to that point.
15:45 And the district they gave me up there
15:47 in the north central part of the state
15:49 of Washington in the Okanagan country.
15:51 In fact, as we move there
15:54 this would be this would be 1976,
16:00 77, 1977, we moved in there.
16:05 We moved into the parsonage
16:07 and for the first time in our experience
16:10 we had a house.
16:11 Every time up to that point
16:12 we were either in apartment we were renting or in a duplex.
16:16 Now we were in a house,
16:18 we were paying rent for it.
16:20 And in that house there was a Franklin stove.
16:24 We didn't realize how cold it was going to get.
16:28 Like as you was laid over
16:30 the Canadian and Washington US border.
16:33 We were four, almost four miles from Canada.
16:36 So we were really north
16:38 in the eastern slopes of the Cascade Mountains.
16:42 We were in orchid country.
16:44 My head elder was David Buck Miller
16:47 and the harvest over three weeks of intensive
16:51 we were getting those apples down
16:52 into the warehouse and he was done.
16:55 The weather was holding and he said to me,
16:57 you know, we got to get you
16:58 a load of wood for that Franklin stove.
17:00 Not just on my heart right over
17:02 I knew this was gonna be a man
17:04 that I could really work with.
17:06 And so on a Sunday
17:08 he came by with his great pickup with sideboards on it.
17:11 We headed it down highway 97
17:14 and went up on what we call the Molson grey.
17:16 There was this track
17:17 and there was a high bench up there
17:20 and we found some trees that were fallen
17:22 and they were seasoned
17:24 and he said I am gonna cut them up
17:26 and why don't you start splitting them?
17:28 I have never done any splitting in my life.
17:31 You know, I was a runner, I was young,
17:35 I was still in my 20s.
17:36 Man, I was still young.
17:38 And I was in a real strong cardiovascular fitness program
17:42 you know, so I was thought it was really in shape.
17:45 I really found what work was about.
17:47 As he was cutting them up
17:49 and as I was splitting them until we had a load that,
17:52 you know, came right up
17:53 even with those sideboards
17:56 and we got in.
17:58 This is the old truck now.
18:00 And we are coming down
18:02 and this kind of rugged road
18:03 and you can feel that load kind of shifting,
18:05 those springs were wow.
18:07 You know, long overdue
18:08 they have been replaced probably.
18:10 And I was sitting on my-- and we came to side
18:12 as we were coming down it was steep
18:13 and on my side it was particularly steep.
18:17 And I wasn't sure that he was such a talker and he was
18:20 you know he's got another young pastor.
18:22 You know to share all of this
18:24 you know sage experience and anyway
18:28 I don't what he was talking about
18:30 because I was nervous.
18:31 I just was not sure and sure enough it happened.
18:36 The back wheel on my side began to slip
18:40 right over in the loose gravel.
18:43 For sure and we were going fast and fortunately
18:46 he had very fast reflexes, he is on that break in a moment.
18:51 We set the break, we climbed on his side
18:54 and surveyed the situation.
18:56 As I said it was loose gravel and the load was like this.
19:01 And it was cleared to us
19:02 that if he tried to drive it up out of it
19:04 and it just going to go right on over.
19:07 But, you know, we know we found some stones
19:10 and we build up ourselves a ramp.
19:12 And anyway we got out of there
19:13 but that was more excitement than I encountered for.
19:17 And when we got home the work wasn't over
19:19 because what you load up you got to unload
19:22 and we unloaded it,
19:23 threw it into the backyard over that picket fence.
19:26 We had a place down the cellar where we gonna put it.
19:28 I remember telling David
19:29 I think I will save this for another day
19:31 I was really beat.
19:33 Went in to find my wife had been baking peach pies.
19:39 Peach pies, do you love peach pies like I do?
19:43 I think she had seven of them.
19:45 She-- she was baking most of them about halfway through
19:48 and sticking them into the freezer
19:50 to be used in the winter months.
19:52 But two of them she had baked, all that aroma,
19:55 when you are so hungry
19:57 and you have been out in the open air
19:58 you know how it is, right.
20:00 And she--
20:01 I gave one of those pies to David.
20:03 I hope he enjoyed as much as I did mine
20:05 and my wife fixed me this wonderful meal.
20:08 Guess this has something to do with hell,
20:10 really good or not I am getting to the point now
20:13 and I sat down to eat and here is the point.
20:17 I was so hungry I devoured it
20:20 which means when I was done there was nothing left.
20:25 Almost like the plate frame.
20:28 So that's an illustration for the word devoured.
20:31 What's that fun getting there?
20:34 Now the point I am making is this
20:36 one does not have to be a college graduate,
20:39 one does not have to spend years at seminary
20:43 to be able to understand the clear intent
20:47 and the clear meaning of these words
20:50 that we discovered in regards to the fate of the wicked,
20:53 consume, devoured destroyed.
20:56 Do you have to get out our Webster dictionary
20:59 to figure that out?
21:02 Now, I know this is puzzling
21:05 because you know where I am going with this.
21:07 And yet all of us know that the traditional view about hell
21:10 that's being taught out there and almost every church
21:13 is the eternal hell of never ending fire.
21:17 But again, remember what we believe
21:19 and what we teach
21:21 must be in harmony with the Bible, right.
21:25 We agreed on that
21:27 and this subject is no different.
21:29 And so we want to settle that issue tonight
21:32 and we are not gonna do with just two or three texts.
21:34 We have got lot more texts
21:35 that we are gonna share with you.
21:37 This is indeed a real Bible study tonight.
21:40 And so I take you on--
21:41 let's see chapter 20,
21:45 how did that page get turned.
21:46 I guess, because I was talking
21:48 and being so active up here but turn to Malachi 4,
21:51 the Old Testament page 678.
21:54 Last book of the Old Testament, 678
21:57 Malachi Chapter 4
21:59 and we want to look at--
22:00 well, we are gonna begin with verse 1.
22:04 This is the book of course
22:05 just before the Book of Matthew.
22:08 And it's talking about
22:09 what is gonna be happening to the wicked.
22:12 In Malachi 4:1 it says
22:14 "For behold, the day is coming,
22:17 burning like a furnace,
22:18 and all the arrogant and" evil
22:20 "every evildoer will be" like what?
22:23 "They're going to be like chaff
22:25 and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,
22:27 says the Lord of hosts,
22:28 so that it will leave them neither root nor branch."
22:31 My friend, we are not spiritualizing
22:33 our way hell tonight.
22:35 Those fires are real.
22:38 They are real.
22:39 There is nothing in the Bible that would indicate
22:41 that this is to be understood symbolically
22:44 or that we just should kind of make spiritual,
22:47 you know, application
22:48 and just kind of cover it over.
22:51 Those fires are very real.
22:52 The wicked are like chaff,
22:54 that day is gonna set them ablaze
22:55 and will leave them neither root nor branch.
22:57 How many of you
22:59 ever took biology somewhere either high school or college?
23:04 Okay, biology
23:06 I don't know how it was for you I got it twice.
23:08 I took it in high school
23:10 and then when I was in college
23:13 we were required to have one,
23:14 science course as theology students
23:18 and I chose biology.
23:21 It was a full three-quarters
23:23 and I saved this basic one on one freshman course
23:28 biology course for my senior year.
23:32 In retrospect I should have known better
23:34 because I was taking it from the head of the department.
23:39 And I-- you know, I didn't always think about
23:41 those kinds of things,
23:42 you know, it really depends who is teaching at.
23:45 But let me tell you in the world of theology
23:47 it is primary the world have ideas.
23:50 You know, scientific fact and memorization
23:53 and all of that there is some
23:55 but it's not like the sciences.
23:59 So I tell you of all my senior courses
24:01 that freshman biology course was the toughest one, it was.
24:07 And it was good, though it was good
24:08 I loved the field trips.
24:10 Going out there and you know getting the specimens
24:12 or getting their scientific names.
24:14 That was really interesting
24:15 and pressing them in the book
24:16 turning the book in as a part of you grade.
24:18 You all went through that, didn't you?
24:19 The bird list-- the field work was really interesting,
24:22 interesting stuff to do.
24:24 And so I did pick up
24:26 something on those biology courses.
24:28 When it talks about the wicked being like chaff
24:30 and it's not going to leave them neither root nor branch,
24:34 that pretty much covers a plant.
24:36 The root system under the soil,
24:38 the branch system above the soil,
24:42 that's just not much left.
24:45 There is something left though as we look at verse 3.
24:49 It says "You will tread down the wicked,
24:51 for they will be" what?
24:53 What's the keyword here?
24:55 "Ashes under the soles of your feet on the day
24:58 which I am preparing, says the Lord of hosts."
25:01 And I have got a picture of ashes.
25:05 You didn't know we gonna have so much fun
25:07 talking about hell tonight, did you?
25:10 And it is good news about hell, ashes.
25:13 Whenever you take--
25:15 I don't know what's the term,
25:18 whenever you take organic material
25:22 and you burn it up
25:24 the byproduct you will be left with is literally ashes.
25:28 And that's literally what the Bible indicates
25:30 is gonna be left.
25:32 I remember years ago
25:33 when my oldest son David was in elementary school
25:37 again Christian school and we were taking
25:39 and taking the kids picking them up.
25:42 And my wife told me
25:43 and she said, you know, there was this--
25:45 they have been this new business.
25:46 They had--the building have been going up for sometime
25:49 and finally they got the sign out
25:50 and my oldest son inquisitive young boy as he was
25:56 happened to look at the sign.
25:57 And he had never seen this word before
25:59 in front of this building.
26:01 And so he was looking at this kind of absorbing
26:03 and return to my wife
26:05 and asked her the question.
26:07 He said "you know, why would anybody want to be creamed?
26:14 The word was cremation or crematory, cremation.
26:19 And he is so used trying to figure it out cream.
26:22 That's what he came up with.
26:24 And so my wife explained to him what it was all about,
26:28 you know, people got cremated there.
26:31 And you know when somebody is cremated
26:33 you get back his urn right with the ashes.
26:38 People get creative about this.
26:40 They will head off to the top
26:41 of Mount Hood, the Mount Rainier.
26:44 Let's spread the ashes around
26:45 or they'll hire a boat and they will go out to sea
26:48 or they will keep up on the fireplace mantle,
26:51 good old Uncle Joe, you know.
26:55 But literally that, you know, that's true.
26:57 That's what's left is what the Bible tells us.
27:01 Is ashes under the soles of our feet
27:03 is what the wicked will be on that day.
27:05 Look, take a look at Psalm 37
27:07 the Old Testament page 407, 407.
27:13 I guess we ought to add this to the list shouldn't
27:17 we since we are doing it
27:18 and that is the word ashes
27:21 because that's where we find.
27:23 So we are gonna turn to Psalm 37
27:25 and as you are looking as you get to Psalm 37,
27:29 I am going to interject this text
27:32 from the Book of Ezekiel.
27:34 So get the Psalm 37
27:36 because we want to turn to that immediately
27:39 in just a moment.
27:41 But somebody might ask the question
27:44 but doesn't the devil deserve to be in hell
27:46 for ever and ever?
27:48 If anybody ought to be there fore ever ought to be him.
27:52 Well, notice what the bible says
27:54 about the evil one Ezekiel 28:26-28, 29
27:59 where God says, "I will destroy thee O covering cherub,
28:04 from the midst of the stones of fire.
28:06 Therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee,
28:09 it shall devour thee,
28:11 and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth
28:14 in the sight of all them that behold thee
28:18 and thou shalt be a terror,
28:20 and never shalt thou be any more."
28:26 What's that mean that last part?
28:29 Never shall thou be any more.
28:32 And my friend, the fate of the devil himself
28:34 is the faith of the wicked.
28:36 I think that's clear.
28:38 So what to be find?
28:39 Well, a number of terms
28:41 that we have already seen biblically.
28:42 He is gonna be destroyed.
28:45 Devour brought the ashes
28:47 as we have already noted
28:48 and for them where as I pointed out
28:50 the last text the last part of that text says
28:54 "that he will be no more."
28:57 That is he will cease to exist, right.
29:06 Okay, Psalm 37 I am gonna go right into that Psalm 37
29:09 and beginning with verse 9.
29:13 It says "For evildoers will be cut off,
29:16 but those who wait for the Lord,
29:17 they will inherit the land.
29:19 He had a little while
29:20 and the wicked man will be no more.
29:23 And you will look carefully for his place.
29:25 And there you will find him right in the anguish
29:28 and pain through the ages of eternity."
29:36 You will let me get away with that.
29:39 Now come on, I was testing you out.
29:42 I told you just last night don't you take anybodies word
29:45 no matter how slick,
29:47 no matter how educated they may seem to be, you know.
29:51 Okay, I steer my way to pass the course
29:55 but anyway remember next sides
29:57 don't let anybody to get away with that kind
29:59 of interpretation of the Bible.
30:00 Now that's Psalm what it says.
30:02 "You will look carefully for his place
30:04 and he will not be there."
30:06 Verse 20 "But the wicked will perish
30:11 and the enemies of the Lord will be like
30:13 the glory of the pasture.
30:15 They vanish like smoke."
30:18 Again whenever you burn up organic material
30:22 you got smoke and you end up with ashes.
30:24 They vanish is the word like smoke
30:28 they vanish away is what the Bible teaches.
30:33 And so let's add that to our list
30:35 they're going to be cut off.
30:37 Isaiah 53 in reference to the death of Jesus.
30:40 The term is he was cut off from the land of living
30:43 and so the reference to it death.
30:45 And the Bible says here there are going to perish.
30:48 The wicked will perish they're going to vanish.
30:51 That's what the Bible says.
30:53 And then Zephaniah 1:18 on the screen
30:56 it says "And all the earth
30:57 will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy,
31:01 for He will make" what kind of end?
31:04 "A complete end, indeed a terrifying one,
31:08 of all the inhabitants of the earth."
31:11 But a complete end it will be is what the Bible says.
31:16 And so we are gonna add that to the list.
31:18 Now you notice now
31:19 we've gone beyond the first two or three verses.
31:23 Now, we are adding verse after verse after verse.
31:26 Old Testament we are gonna find again
31:28 the New Testament is imperfect,
31:30 perfect agreement with what we are finding here.
31:33 In Romans 6 and looking at verse 23,
31:38 Romans 6:23
31:40 A text that most of us are pretty well familiar with.
31:43 And it reads this.
31:44 "For the wages of sin" is what? Death.
31:50 Death, death eternal torment in hell
31:54 is that the same or are they different.
31:58 Death is that dead--
32:01 anyway I want to be thinking about this.
32:04 The wages of sin is death.
32:06 It goes on to say "but the free gift of God." Is what?
32:12 "Eternal life."
32:13 I got a question for you
32:15 who is it that gets eternal life?
32:18 Who is it?
32:21 God, do we all agree its God s people
32:23 that receive the gift of eternal life
32:25 through Jesus Christ our Lord.
32:27 How many of you would agree with that?
32:30 How many you think based on what we find in the Bible
32:33 that the wicked get eternal life?
32:36 May I see your hands.
32:39 You are sure about this.
32:42 You see the traditional teaching about hell
32:44 never ending suffering has given to the wicked eternal life,
32:52 Yes under the most miserable of circumstances
32:54 but somehow miraculously
32:57 they have been given eternal life, have they not?
33:01 But my friend, that is contrary to what the text says.
33:05 The wages of sin is death.
33:07 The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
33:10 and so I believe we ought to add the word "Death" up there.
33:14 How about you?
33:16 It seems concessive with every other word
33:18 that we found in the Bible.
33:20 It surely does.
33:21 So at this point having gone through so many texts
33:25 I would imagine we are to at least be
33:28 asking ourselves a question,
33:29 if indeed the Bible is so clear about this as we have seen
33:33 in the passages up to this point
33:35 then how is it that we find that much
33:39 in the most of the Christian world
33:41 is teaching how as an eternal place of torment.
33:46 What's going on?
33:48 I have two observations to make.
33:51 Number one, in general
33:53 we really are not studying the Bibles
33:55 close on some of these issues as we really are to be doing.
33:59 We were taught this,
34:01 we heard this being preached in the church
34:05 but in reality probably most of us
34:09 have never really actually got down into the nitty-gritty
34:12 of what the Bible actually states about these things.
34:16 Yes, certainly a casual,
34:18 casual look at this thing of hell the first text
34:21 for instance that I share with you,
34:23 "They shall be in torment forever and ever."
34:26 Just and so for our consideration that in isolation
34:30 without considering the other text
34:31 I've referred to the fate of the wicked
34:33 would kind of lend itself to that idea.
34:35 But again we never take a text in isolation
34:39 that is not good biblical exegesis.
34:42 We get as much as we can out of the given text
34:45 but then as we had been doing in the meetings
34:47 we take all of the light and I mean we can't cover it all
34:50 even than an hour we take all of the light
34:53 and we put the whole picture together.
34:57 That's how we allow the Bible to interpret itself.
35:02 So there has been as careful
35:04 a consideration what the Bible actually teaches.
35:07 It's not been the only issue as you know.
35:10 The other thing is, if you begin with the wrong premise
35:17 you end up with the wrong conclusion
35:19 and that's exactly what's going on here.
35:22 The premise, the wrong premise,
35:25 the wrong premise is and most of the Christian world
35:27 does embrace this is that the soul is immortal
35:31 which means it is indestructible,
35:35 which means, that when the wicked are thrown
35:37 into the hell they're never going to die,
35:40 because their souls cannot die.
35:43 So wrong premise, wrong conclusion.
35:47 Right premise, right conclusion.
35:50 And what is the right premise?
35:52 The Bible teaches the soul will die.
35:56 Gave you two texts on that,
35:58 one in the Old Testament, one New Testament, Ezekiel 18,
36:01 the Old Testament page 600,
36:03 that's exactly
36:07 and its actually a pagan idea in addition,
36:11 you know, the immortality soul
36:12 came out of mysticism, paganism
36:15 and so it is with hell.
36:20 This traditional idea of hell really comes out of paganism.
36:24 Ezekiel 18:4 where God says "Behold, all souls are mine;
36:29 the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine:
36:32 the soul who sins shall die."
36:37 That is not immortality.
36:39 Immortality comes to us through Jesus Christ
36:42 and is bestowed upon us
36:45 according to 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
36:49 at the resurrection morning
36:52 when this mortal shall put on the immortality.
36:55 Remember, that in a moment in the twinkling of an eye,
36:57 at the last trumpet the dead shall be raised
37:00 this corruptible must be put on the incorruptible,
37:03 this mortal must put on the immortal
37:05 and it says we shall be changed.
37:08 That all happens in the resurrection morning
37:10 that immortality is bestowed upon us.
37:13 We are not immortal beings, short of the coming of Jesus.
37:19 For if you notice even Christians do die,
37:24 the first death.
37:27 But as I said there is another statement that--
37:31 there is more than that but I am gonna share one another
37:33 this one in the New Testament.
37:34 It is the statement of Jesus in this regard
37:39 and its Matthew 10:28 the New Testament page eight.
37:46 And by the way I guess we should add that to the list.
37:49 The soul is going to die.
37:51 Well, let's add the weight of evidence
37:54 from the statement of Jesus.
37:56 Okay, I hear you turning your Bibles
37:58 that is a beautiful sound.
38:01 And Jesus makes this statement right here.
38:03 Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those
38:06 who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul;
38:09 but rather fear Him who is able
38:12 to destroy both soul and body"
38:16 where? "In hell."
38:20 And who made this statement? Jesus.
38:23 Both soul and body are gonna be
38:25 destroyed in hell is what He says.
38:27 You know, in the evangelical world
38:30 in the last some years 10-15 years
38:32 there has been a reexamination
38:35 and reconsideration on this traditional teaching about hell.
38:40 And there's been a couple of interesting
38:43 and fascinating books that have been produced
38:44 out of this new scholarship.
38:47 This was reported initially in the US news
38:49 and world report it is the book entitle,
38:53 Hell a Pagan Doctrine and this is what is says is Philip Hughes
38:58 who is the scholar that wrote this book.
39:02 And by the way Philip Hughes a long term scholar
39:06 in the area of theology thought it was time
39:10 for us to have an updated book on the issue of hell.
39:14 So he begins his research in the Bible.
39:19 And, you know, when you do research
39:20 you are supposed to put aside you preconceived ideas, right.
39:25 But he began to look at the text.
39:27 He began to line them up and he was taken back
39:33 by what he was beginning to find in the Bible
39:36 contrary to what he had understood and then taught.
39:40 And he finally wrote his book and this is what it says here.
39:43 And Philip Hughes argues that
39:45 "The traditional believe in the unending punishment
39:49 is linked to the erroneous belief
39:52 in the innate immortality of the soul.
39:54 A belief that he says that is based more on Plato
39:57 than on the Bible.
39:59 The immortality which the Christian is assured
40:01 is not inherent in himself."
40:03 As we have already noted it's bestowed at the coming of Jesus.
40:06 "Or in his soul but is bestowed by God" says Hughes.
40:12 Edward Fudge, additionally has been a recent scholar that
40:17 has revisited this whole issue
40:19 and again in the evangelical world.
40:22 And his book entitles the "Fire That Consumes"
40:26 and he writes "Eternal conscience torment
40:29 is either true or it is not.
40:31 God's word gives the only authoritative answers
40:36 and everyone said Amen.
40:39 Either it's in the Bible or it's not true."
40:45 It doesn't matter how many churches are teaching it
40:47 and it doesn't matter
40:48 how long that it has been taught
40:51 it's either biblical or it is not.
40:54 Do you know my friend,
40:55 when we decide
40:57 that we are going to sincerely go by
41:00 what the Bible teaches
41:01 and only what the Bible teaches
41:03 and we are willing to filter out some of these teachings
41:07 and practices that are out there based
41:09 on the clear teachings of scripture
41:11 it really makes it a lot easier.
41:14 But see some of this is embedded in us
41:16 because this is what we have always known.
41:18 This has been part of our past experience.
41:21 May be you have had a beloved pastor
41:22 that really could preach out hot message on hell
41:25 and you know we have got all of this history
41:27 and all of this history with the church may be
41:29 where you know we,
41:31 we've learned these things
41:32 from when we were just a little baby.
41:34 And may be we-- you know, may be we are even threatened.
41:37 You know, your better behave yourself.
41:40 You don't want to burn in hell for ever, do you?
41:43 That kind of stuff-- we heard all that of kind of stuff
41:45 you know growing up.
41:48 And so you know so we are sorting through
41:52 what was very familiar territory to us
41:54 and what we thought we clearly understood
41:57 and now we are here tonight.
41:59 And we got somebody up here opening Bible
42:02 we are going from text to text
42:03 and that's what not why we are here in here
42:06 and that's not what we are finding in the Bible.
42:10 And so, may be some of us in a little bit of dilemma.
42:14 So what is the real truth?
42:17 And my friend, we can say with that which is familiar
42:20 which we have grown accustomed to.
42:22 What we have believed or in the honesty
42:26 of our commitment to Jesus.
42:28 We can say hey, Lord Jesus,
42:30 I am still learner
42:31 and I am willing to on learn something
42:34 that I didn't get right the first around
42:37 because I value the truth.
42:40 I value what the Bible teaches.
42:43 And my friend, remember that's our first loyalty.
42:45 It's not to the church,
42:47 it's not to like the church teaches outside of the Bible
42:50 it's to what the Bible teaches.
42:52 Oh, anyway, I am preaching well,
42:55 I think it applies, doesn't it.
42:57 Now, anyway we got off on where he said
42:59 "God's word gives the only authoritative answers
43:03 we will rare on the traditionalist view."
43:06 Most of us were "We accepted it
43:09 because it was said to us on the Bible.
43:13 And more careful study has shown
43:15 that we were mistaken in that assumption."
43:19 And my friend, we have been mistaken
43:21 in the Christian world about this.
43:23 And this is not some side issue
43:24 this goes right to the heart of
43:26 what kind of God is that we serve anyway?
43:31 I mean anybody else that will put somebody
43:33 into the fires of hell
43:35 and keep them there without release
43:39 we will say--
43:41 I mean that's torture, that's evil.
43:46 If anybody else had that capability
43:47 and did it, wouldn't we.
43:51 We've heard of all things
43:52 that people have done to torture people
43:53 but you know to me this would be the most awful of them all.
43:57 I was doing a series in Bozeman, Montana years ago,
44:02 and a young woman a Christian
44:03 that was coming mother, married,
44:05 her husband worked on a dairy farm in the area.
44:10 And I remember when we came to this subject
44:13 I was that bidding farewell to the people at the door
44:16 as I usually to do as they were leaving
44:18 and she came by and I could see
44:21 that she was in deep thought.
44:24 And so I entered in conversation with her
44:26 and she was--
44:27 she was kind of struggling with this.
44:30 And so I begin to go through review remember
44:34 that text we looked that,
44:35 remember what it said. She said yeah.
44:36 I remember that and I saw that at that
44:39 and yet there was something there was something there.
44:42 And somehow as we were in the conversation
44:44 she began to recall the occasion of which
44:48 she made her initial commitment to Jesus.
44:52 She remembered it was a Sunday morning
44:53 she was in church
44:55 and she remembered
44:56 that the pastor on that occasion
44:58 was preaching on hell,
45:00 the traditionalist view.
45:04 Preaching on hell and then he made altar call.
45:08 And it was at that point she came forward
45:10 and gave her heart to Jesus.
45:12 When she recalled that that immediately
45:14 she saw what was going on she saw
45:16 that it was so wrapped in her initial response to Jesus
45:20 that that was an emotional issue for her.
45:24 And when she recognized
45:25 that she was able to let go of that
45:27 and accept what the Bible teaches.
45:29 And you know, I have found this often be true.
45:32 You cannot expect of individuals
45:34 and let me tell you those of us
45:36 we are all learners, right.
45:37 We are learning, I am still learning,
45:39 Gill still learning and you are still learning.
45:41 And I do know in the process
45:43 when we're relearning something
45:45 and particularly if it's fundamentally opposite
45:48 to what we have understood there is a process.
45:51 And sometimes there is an emotional side
45:52 to that process, right.
45:56 And so I want to recognize that.
45:58 Whatever it is whether it was the subject
45:59 that might happens when it you die on Friday night,
46:01 whether it's the Sabbath whatever, it is.
46:05 You know, recognize there's an emotional issue
46:08 there's a whole history
46:11 that we bring to the table
46:13 when we study these things.
46:14 We have to look at how is that history affect,
46:16 how I am considering what I am reading.
46:20 What emotions are playing into
46:22 what I am discovering in God's word?
46:25 And if we neglect,
46:26 I-- you know I had to be in the ministry for a while
46:28 before I understood that part of it.
46:30 I just thought just preach the word its there,
46:32 its clear people will see it, they will accept it.
46:36 But there's other side of it as I just mentioned.
46:40 So if you are processing this continue to process it
46:43 through keep looking what the Bible teaches
46:45 but start putting together you know what it is?
46:48 What isn't about it?
46:50 Let me share with you Matthew 13.
46:53 So does hell burned it right now?
46:54 Is it burning now, future?
46:57 The New Testament page 11, page 11, Matthew 13:37.
47:04 Matthew 13
47:07 and this is the parable, the wheat and tares.
47:10 So Jesus is explaining the parable here in verse 37.
47:14 And He said "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
47:18 and the field is the world;
47:20 and as for the good seed,
47:21 these are the sons of the kingdom;
47:23 and the tares are the sons of the evil one,"
47:25 the wicked and the enemy
47:27 who sowed them is the devil,
47:29 and the harvest is the end of the age;
47:31 and the reapers are angels.
47:33 So just as the tares are gathered up
47:36 and burned with fire,
47:38 so shall it be
47:41 at the end of the age."
47:47 King James says "the end of the world."
47:49 When shall it be?
47:52 At the end, not now.
47:56 Again, wrong premise, wrong conclusion.
47:59 Believing in, if one believes in the immortality the soul
48:03 when one dies you got to put the soul somewhere.
48:06 And, you know, what you are gonna do
48:07 with the souls of the God's people,
48:08 you send them straight to heaven.
48:10 You know what you are gonna do with the souls of the wicked,
48:12 you're gonna send them straight down the hell.
48:15 In spite of the fact that as we see here
48:17 the Bible indicates hell does not burn until the end.
48:22 It's not now and if some of us have come
48:25 from a Roman Catholic background Episcopal,
48:29 you know orthodox this is kind of embedded
48:32 in our thinking this is pretty foundational
48:35 to our whole view of the after life
48:37 and what we could except the death
48:38 and everything else placed into it.
48:40 Let's add to it in Revelation 20,
48:42 the New Testament page 200,
48:44 page 200 Revelation 20
48:47 and we are gonna be looking verses 13-15.
48:49 Coming back to Revelation 20, remember,
48:51 we already taken note that the wicked are resurrected
48:56 at the end of the thousand years.
48:58 you know, organizes them into this vast army
49:01 verse 9 says "they will go up against the city.
49:03 And fire comes down from heaven and devours them."
49:05 As we come to verse 13, through 15.
49:08 Remember Jesus said "They are going to be resurrected
49:11 for the purpose of judgment."
49:12 So there's got be judgment
49:13 somewhere in this process, right.
49:15 And this is what we find in verse 13 and onward.
49:18 " And the sea gave up the dead which were in it,"
49:21 that's resurrection "And Hades."
49:25 That is the grave "gave up the dead
49:28 which were in them, and they were judged,
49:30 every one of them according to their deeds.
49:34 Then in death and Hades" grave "
49:36 where thrown into the lake of fire."
49:38 This is hell, we went through this on the millennium
49:41 I did not identify the lake of fire as hell.
49:43 But somebody here was asking the question
49:45 in regards to what's the lake of fire
49:47 and etcetera and I really put you all
49:49 because I was ready to talk about it.
49:51 I am tonight.
49:53 "Death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire.
49:56 This is," How does the Bible describe the second death?
50:01 They die.
50:04 "The lake of fire.
50:05 And if anyone's name was not found
50:08 written in the book of life,
50:09 he was thrown into the lake of fire."
50:13 Is what it says.
50:15 It's at the end of the thousand years
50:17 after the wicked were resurrected
50:18 after their judgment.
50:20 And they died the second death.
50:21 They die.
50:23 Then verse-- forget the chapter division
50:26 go to the next verse
50:28 "Then I saw" John says
50:29 "a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven
50:32 and the first earth passed away."
50:35 How did that happen
50:37 that the first earth passed away?
50:40 Hell, the lake of fire consumed it and wicked.
50:45 And what does God do? He starts over a new.
50:50 He makes a new earth, right,
50:53 and he will populate that new earth.
50:55 Paradise restored, right.
50:57 God's people are gonna inhabit that place.
51:01 But see first earth is gone.
51:04 Is this fitting in little bit more,
51:05 does this make more sense?
51:08 Boy, it sure does, a lot more sense.
51:12 Isaiah 28:21 when it talks about this--
51:16 what's going to happen to the wicked.
51:17 It says "For the Lord shall rise up
51:19 that He may do His work,
51:20 His strange work, and bring to pass His act,
51:23 His strange act."
51:24 But my friend, it does seems strange
51:26 because God we think of God as the one who creates
51:31 and the one who sustains life
51:33 not the one that eliminates life.
51:38 But my friend, sin has put God
51:40 into this predicament
51:42 and that is what's He gonna do
51:43 about this thing of evil
51:45 and in the end it's got to be eliminated,
51:47 and in the end it means
51:49 He gonna save His men as He can
51:51 either, again we are going to allow Jesus to bear our sins
51:57 and its consequence
51:58 or we'll have to bear it ourselves.
52:01 And by the way since we are talking about hell
52:03 and we are talking about the second death,
52:05 which of the two deaths
52:06 do you think Jesus died on the cross of cavalry,
52:08 the first or the second death?
52:11 That may be real new idea for you.
52:14 Second death,
52:17 because even Christians die the first death
52:20 which seems momentarily, just like a moment.
52:23 It's the second death we must die we must not die
52:26 because that is eternal.
52:28 It's what the Bible tells us.
52:29 So new heaven and the new earth
52:31 and then after creating a new heaven
52:33 and the new earth let's come on down to the Revelation 21:4.
52:37 Notice what it says.
52:38 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
52:41 and there shall be no more death,
52:43 nor sorrow, nor crying.
52:45 There shall be no more pain," What's the word?
52:49 "No more pain
52:51 for the former things have" what?
52:57 "Passed away." It's behind us.
53:00 And my friends, if there was a place of eternal torment
53:04 those words could not possibly true
53:06 because there would be pain there will be a lot of pain
53:11 but you see God makes it end of it.
53:13 Is that more consistent with His love?
53:16 A loving God.
53:19 Now listen
53:20 and you know we could talk about hell
53:21 in very and personal terms
53:22 but do you start thinking of your friends,
53:24 you start thinking of your family,
53:26 you start thinking somebody close
53:27 you that doesn't make it?
53:30 You think about them being in hell and you tell me
53:32 just do you know cerebral can you get about this think.
53:36 This gets close at home.
53:38 This is gonna be off of the lose
53:39 somebody yet alone to consider.
53:42 May be a parent or child or a dear friend,
53:45 a sister a brother to think about the fact
53:48 that they are gonna be in hell forever.
53:51 I mean that just makes you cringe, doesn't' it.
53:54 It absolutely does.
53:56 This is much, so much more consistent.
53:58 God makes a final end of it.
54:01 So whatever we discover God has declared in His word
54:04 that wicked are going to be consumed,
54:06 they are going to be destroyed.
54:08 They will experience eternal destructions
54:10 what the Bible tells us.
54:11 They are gonna be devoured
54:13 just time and time again they will be brought to ashes.
54:15 Be there will be no more there will be cut off,
54:18 they will perish, they will vanish,
54:21 they will be a complete end will be made of them
54:23 is what the Bible says.
54:24 They are gonna die.
54:26 In indeed the Bible teaches the soul itself is going to die.
54:29 It's gonna be destroyed.
54:30 My friend, the weight of evidence
54:32 is just overwhelmingly cleared
54:33 when you really get down to it.
54:36 Now I am into my conclusion.
54:38 So how does God feel about this?
54:41 We are very egocentric, you know, about issues.
54:45 We know always consider how God feels about this.
54:48 But you know this about the wicked.
54:51 They were His children too.
54:55 And it was for them that Jesus came to die.
54:58 Not just for those who accepted
55:00 but Jesus was sent to save them as well.
55:04 They had a choice in this.
55:07 And I want to tell you who loves them above all?
55:12 He does.
55:13 it says,
55:15 "The Lord is not willing that any should perish
55:17 but that all should come to repentance."
55:20 My friend He doesn't want to lose at one
55:22 but he will not compel, He will not force.
55:25 In Isaiah 55:7 he declares "let the wicked forsake his way
55:28 and young righteous man his thoughts
55:30 and let him return to the Lord
55:32 and he will have compassion on him.
55:34 And to our God for he will abundantly pardon."
55:37 My friend, you begin to get
55:38 the sense of the heartbeat of Jesus
55:40 of God in all of this, the longing,
55:42 beginning in the sense of the longing
55:44 in the heart of God, for His lost children.
55:50 you see it so clearly.
55:53 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God,
55:56 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked,
55:59 but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live."
56:04 Turn back, turn back from your evil ways.
56:07 Why then will you die,"
56:12 And then john 3:16 that we will say all the time.
56:15 "For God so loved the world,
56:17 that He gave His only begotten Son,
56:18 that whosoever believeth in Him,
56:20 should not perish, but have everlasting life."
56:26 My friend, He paid the ultimate price
56:27 so that we could be saved
56:29 for the consequences of our sin.
56:34 And that's why time goes on.
56:36 He is still in the business of saving.
56:39 You know, what I am sharing with you tonight
56:41 for the God's word is the hardest hell
56:44 that you have ever heard preached.
56:46 The traditionalist view on hell
56:48 preaches a hell that is not hard enough to destroy the wicked.
56:53 But I am telling you the hell
56:54 that the Bible teaches is hard enough
56:57 that it does destroy the wicked
57:00 and makes an end of it.
57:03 And again, I believe if we're among God's people
57:06 when this all comes down
57:09 my friend, I believe we are gonna see tears
57:12 coursing down to the cheeks of Jesus.
57:15 I think He is gonna be weeping over that.
57:19 You noticed in verse 4
57:23 where it says "He will wipe all tears from their eyes."
57:25 It's after all of this has happened
57:28 that He will wipe the tears from our eyes.
57:31 Like a child that's been comforted by parent
57:34 when they are grieving,
57:35 God is going to comfort his people
57:38 because we too have experienced loses
57:40 in all of this.
57:43 And He will comfort us
57:45 and He is gonna make everything all right.
57:47 It's gonna be all right, my friend.
57:49 God has a plan, it's a plan of love.
57:53 He is doing everything He can,
57:55 and all we have to say is, yes Lord.
57:59 We want to it Your way, Your way.