Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), David Guerro, Paul Coneff, Christina Cecotto
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000001A
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00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:30 We're so glad you came, 00:31 this is a show dedicated to understanding 00:34 how we can have better mental health, 00:36 rooted and grounded in timeless biblical principles. 00:40 I'm so glad to have my treatment team 00:42 here with me today. 00:44 I wanna introduce them one by one. 00:45 This is Christina Cecotto, she's from Georgia. 00:49 She is a Masters in Social of License, 00:53 Masters in Social Work 00:55 and she works at Wildwood Lifestyle Center. 00:59 She likes to treat, 01:00 as a mental health counselor and she likes to treat anxiety, 01:04 mood disorders and she also kind of specializes in phobias 01:08 which is so special 01:09 because that's one of the most common 01:11 anxiety diagnosis, isn't it? 01:13 So glad to have you here. 01:15 And we have David Guerro. 01:18 David is from Wisconsin. 01:20 He is so many things, I can hardly count them all. 01:22 He's a pastor, a chaplain, a life coach. 01:24 He is a certified biblical counselor 01:27 and he runs a ministry called Rekindle the Flame 01:30 through which he gives seminars. 01:32 So like what don't you do David, 01:33 you're just a busy man 01:35 and so I'm excited to have you here as well. 01:38 This is Paul Coneff. 01:40 Paul is from Texas, the great state of Texas. 01:43 He is a marriage and family therapist. 01:45 He runs a prayer and discipleship ministry 01:49 called Straight 2 The Heart 01:51 through which he helps people through loss, 01:54 recovery from abuse 01:56 and addiction utilizing a method 01:59 that he is developed that puts people in contact 02:03 with a crucified Christ in an effort 02:06 to dignify their suffering 02:07 and make sense of their suffering. 02:08 Beautiful program. 02:10 And my co-host Robert Davidson, he's from the DC area. 02:15 He's a private practice counselor 02:17 and he works with me in abide counseling 02:19 and that work. 02:21 He is also a private practice counselor 02:23 and he has a specialty, he does families 02:26 and individuals and couples 02:28 but he has kind of a specialty in helping men 02:33 develop biblical manhood 02:35 and develop into servant leaders 02:37 helping them develop integrity which is, 02:39 there is such a need for that now 02:40 because we've got this pandemic of pornography addiction 02:45 and so forth and so I'm so glad you're doing that, 02:47 I'm so glad each and everyone of you 02:49 are here with us today. 02:50 Our topic today is " Loneliness." 02:53 We're gonna be talking about a human problem 02:55 at every show 02:57 and today's human problem is loneliness. 03:00 I mean to give you some facts about loneliness upfront here. 03:03 First of all, a definition of loneliness, 03:05 very simple, insufficient social connection 03:08 and closed bonds for optimal well being. 03:12 The prevalence of loneliness is hard to track 03:14 because it's not an official diagnosis. 03:16 However, there is a clinician in, 03:20 from the University of Chicago named John Cacioppo, 03:23 who is considered the dawn of loneliness 03:26 in the mental health field. 03:28 And he says that loneliness is on the rise. 03:32 Up from 20 % in the 80s to now 40 % today 03:37 and he specializes in loneliness 03:39 and really develops that, 03:40 so apparently loneliness is pandemic as well. 03:44 What is the cause of loneliness? 03:45 Well, I've mowed this over, 03:47 it's not a whole lot of research on it 03:49 but what I believe is that people have trouble bonding 03:53 and developing relationships when they grow up in homes, 03:56 where they are not taught that from the time they're born 04:00 because you see God has organized 04:02 human development such that we have opportunity 04:05 after opportunity to develop relationship 04:07 first with mother and child 04:09 and the brain is literally formatted 04:11 through that relationship and then father and child 04:14 and then often siblings and then friends 04:17 and at every phase we learn better how to trust, 04:21 how to love and be loved 04:23 and that's how God set up human life. 04:24 Well, the tragedy is that sometimes homes, 04:28 they're designed by God to be the place 04:29 where we learn how to love and be loved 04:31 are so compromised that people really 04:33 either don't learn that or learn the opposite. 04:36 So I think the major problem with loneliness 04:40 or the contributor to it is people have insufficient 04:42 relational and bonding skills 04:44 and they have not developed them 04:46 so far in life and they come into adulthood 04:48 basically as children 04:50 but really kind of almost were soft 04:51 because they've developed bad habits of relating. 04:55 But the prognosis is still good 04:58 and what we're gonna find on the show 04:59 is whenever I talk about the prognosis 05:01 which simply means how is this gonna pan out, 05:03 is it curable or fixable. 05:06 I'm always gonna say that the prognosis is good 05:08 because Jesus is a living savior 05:11 and he's powerful and able to heal us. 05:14 And it says and I think it's Psalm 131, 05:17 correct me if I'm wrong, 05:18 he heals all our diseases 05:20 including our relational and mental diseases. 05:22 So loneliness is very curable 05:25 and people can learn how to love and be loved. 05:28 What is the best treatment for loneliness? 05:32 I think from my research that one of the best things 05:34 that we can do is encourage a person 05:37 or if it's ourselves, go to church. 05:40 There's lots of research on the benefits of church 05:44 to people socially and in terms of mental health 05:47 and even physical health as it attaches to those things. 05:50 Now I know that there are extremely toxic churches 05:53 and some of them would have the opposite effect 05:55 but by and large, 05:56 even factoring in those toxic churches, 05:58 church is good for people, it's a great place to connect 06:01 and you know, if you think about it, 06:03 you are really, if you've had a bad family life, 06:06 you're really part of the family of God 06:07 when you come to Church. 06:08 So what have you guys used with your clients 06:11 and what has worked for you in your search 06:15 to connect with others? 06:16 Do you wanna give me some input at this point? 06:20 You know, Jennifer. 06:22 Just listening to what you're saying is so true 06:25 and one thing that I often try to do is, 06:26 try to help the person make decisions concerning 06:31 people that they know that they could bond with 06:34 and connecting with individuals is very, very important. 06:38 Secondly, is trying to find 06:42 what is the cause of the disconnect, 06:43 what is the cause of the loneliness 06:45 and perhaps maybe certain events 06:48 that are causing this feeling of our not, 06:52 of not having anyone around 06:54 or feeling lonely and then connecting, 06:58 connecting with Christ and connecting with others, 07:01 are those things I think are very important. 07:02 Don't you find that when people have had broken trust, 07:05 a lot of times they're very reluctant to trust again? 07:08 And it's because when they first trusted, 07:10 they were children, very naive, very vulnerable 07:13 and they reason in their child mind, 07:15 will I trust it, it was disastrous, 07:17 I'll never trust again. 07:19 But what I do is I try to bring them from that 07:21 to wait a minute, 07:22 you don't have to trust like you trusted as a child again. 07:25 You can learn to trust more intelligently 07:27 because now you're an adult and so let's work on that, 07:30 how can you trust again 07:31 'cause not trusting anyone in and of itself 07:33 is dangerous. 07:34 We have to have trust bonds to be healthy. 07:36 What I would say too is when trust is broken, 07:38 it's easy to learn 07:40 that the world isn't safe and I can't trust. 07:42 So I think healing some of that brokenness 07:44 would be important for me, 07:46 you know, if their belief system is I'm alone, 07:47 I can't trust. 07:49 I would wanna bring him into Jesus story 07:50 where he fulfilled prophecy 07:52 in very intentional specific ways. 07:54 Like Isaiah 63 says, 07:55 he would try the one put us alone, 07:57 of the people they are be none with Him. 07:59 He experienced loneliness in the biggest way. 08:02 And so he told His disciples in the book of John, 08:04 you're all gonna leave me alone. 08:05 No, we won't. 08:07 Yeah, you're going to, it's a fulfillment of prophecy 08:08 and then in the Garden of Gethsemane, 08:10 you know, here He is alone. 08:12 He asked those closest two and to be there for Him. 08:14 He's invested all of His time and energy 08:15 and they're not there for him. 08:17 So I find if I begin connecting that person's story, 08:20 a brokenness where they learned not to trust 08:22 which is a story and then we begin praying 08:25 and bringing their story to Jesus story 08:27 together in prayer, 08:28 the Holy Spirit starts doing some healing. 08:30 What happens there, do they just see 08:32 that God knows how they feel? 08:34 Is that a big part of the therapeutic 08:37 effect of that, it's just knowing... 08:38 Yeah, there is this connect where they tend... 08:40 we tend to think of Jesus, 08:41 He died for our sins, rose again, 08:42 He'll forgive us and that's true. Yeah. 08:44 All of a sudden they see that He was human like us 08:46 and the big, the big teaching moment 08:49 sort of speak the connection is wow! 08:51 He knows what it's like to be alone. 08:54 He can identify with me, 08:56 He can relate to me and when that happens, 08:59 something in their heart starts to go, Oh, you understand, 09:02 I can begin to trust you. 09:04 And it's that something also that they intended to interpret 09:08 the betrayal of their trust as a statement about them 09:12 and when they see that Jesus himself, 09:15 God experienced betrayal of trust, 09:17 they realized, well, good people get betrayed. 09:20 I don't have to feel stigmatized 09:21 by the fact that I was betrayed. 09:22 You think that might be part of it? 09:24 Exactly. 09:25 'Cause He's got abandonment there, 09:26 He's got betrayal, He's got all these things happening 09:29 and if it's a family member, there He's on the cross, 09:31 "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" 09:33 He's being tempted to believe His Father's left Him. 09:37 And so for me, I found it just creates 09:39 a heart to heart connection with God 09:41 and of course, we're as counselors, 09:43 we're part of that and then as they get healing 09:45 then they can begin making those decisions 09:47 like you brought out, Jennifer, who can we trust, 09:49 who is not trust worthy. 09:51 Have you ever had this experience 09:52 where you tried to share things like that with people 09:55 and it draws a blank and they can't really relate 10:01 even though it might be moving you 10:02 and at times I've been moved to tears talking about Jesus 10:05 and His sufferings and how it really 10:07 dignifies their sufferings 10:08 and so forth and I... and I just see it drawing a blank. 10:11 Do you have a way that you get through to people like that? 10:15 Well, what I do with them as I'm talking with them, 10:18 I'll often have His story on a piece of paper 10:20 where they can look at it, 10:21 step by step from Gethsemane to Calvary, 10:23 so they've got something tangible in front of them 10:25 and then I invite them 10:26 if we could take that information 10:28 and turn it into a prayer because Jesus said, 10:30 if you don't believe what I say, 10:32 then do it and apply and see what happens. 10:34 So I'll invite them 10:35 to pray Jesus's story into their prayer, 10:38 a simple prayer like, "Dear God, 10:39 thank you that Jesus suffered being alone 10:41 and abandoned in the garden 10:42 and betrayed and tempted not to trust 10:45 and connected with you so He could take into His death 10:48 on the cross, all the ways I'm alone 10:51 and I've learned I can't trust others 10:53 and then rise again to heal me 10:55 and set me free and as we do that over and over, 10:57 what I find is, they get a mind heart connection 10:59 or if we're gonna use a scripture, 11:01 it's that new covenant of mind and heart. 11:02 But I wonder if part of their ability 11:05 to finally grasp it is 11:06 that they develop a relationship with you 11:09 and that's, you know, one of the things 11:11 that counseling really has going forward, 11:12 is that there's this delivery system 11:15 and counseling like a person can need a blood transfusion 11:18 and you can have the blood but they don't get it 11:20 if you don't have a good delivery system, a counseling, 11:22 if you know how to develop a really strong 11:25 or we call therapeutic alliance with your client, 11:27 that's the delivery system 11:28 and sometimes people will respond to you 11:31 in a way that they can't yet respond to God 11:34 because it never had a relationship yet. 11:36 They've never really... 11:37 and to try to relate to someone invisible for someone 11:39 who's never had a relationship, they just... 11:41 so maybe developing a relationship with you 11:44 has been helpful in helping them 11:45 understand what you're trying to convey to them. 11:46 I'm glad you bring it, this is a critical part, 11:48 you know, we're talking before how... 11:51 off screen where that human relationship, 11:54 David is bringing out is a critical part of the process 11:57 'cause as they learn to trust you, 11:58 then they can learn to trust God 12:00 or trust somebody else. 12:01 So God is using us, we're not the healers 12:03 but yet God wants to use relation. 12:05 We're broken in relationship 12:07 and He wants to rebuild us in healthy relationship. 12:09 So could our first step be, 12:11 when you're counseling this individual 12:13 is somehow communicating to them in the room 12:17 that I'm here for you 12:19 and then connecting with them on that personal level 12:23 and perhaps the blank you see in their face 12:24 is because they're wondering, "Are you with me. 12:28 Do you understand what I'm going through?" 12:30 And so you take in the time to listen, 12:33 listening is very important. 12:35 In this world today, 12:37 we often have people who crave someone to be there, 12:41 crave someone to just listen to them 12:44 and if we can just take moments in our counseling sessions 12:47 to just really listen to people, I believe it, 12:49 you know, it draws them to us 12:51 and them we can draw them to Christ. 12:52 Have you've ever had the experience 12:54 where you're like 12:55 talking as there is someone is talking to you 12:56 and maybe they're just basically monologuing 12:59 and you're just listening 13:00 and they say that you've helped them so much 13:02 and you can't for the life of you figure out 13:04 what you said to them or did or anything 13:07 but it was just so helpful 'cause you just listened. 13:09 They were able to share their story with you. 13:10 And the greatest compliment in a counseling session 13:12 at least from, you know, from my experience, 13:14 in this of my opinion is when someone says, 13:17 "Thank you for listening to me." 13:18 Yeah. All right. 13:20 And there have been times 13:21 when at the end of the session the person will say, 13:25 " This is been fantastic, 13:27 I feel so much better because you're here just, 13:30 just to listen to me." 13:32 And sometimes I have to tell the client 13:35 that I want to hear your story and I'm really interested. 13:41 And that active listening part is so vital 13:44 in the very beginning to develop that report, 13:46 so that they can continue to go from trust to trust to trust. 13:50 I just wanna say one thing, Jenn, 13:51 you said that going to church in and of itself, 13:54 is therapeutic. 13:55 Not always. 13:56 That was my experience... 13:58 Oh, it was. 13:59 Because I came from a situation 14:00 where when I started going to church 14:02 for the first time in my adulthood, 14:04 I found acceptance that the Lord know 14:07 that I needed to have. 14:08 Now it wasn't perfect 14:10 but it was a new feeling for me 14:12 and I would go home feeling like, 14:13 I want to go back there 14:15 because I felt like I was accepted 14:17 and then I got hooked into a small group 14:19 and that small group was even better 14:21 than the bigger Church at large. 14:22 So I can't say enough about small groups 14:24 when it comes to people who are lonely, 14:26 who need to have connection. 14:28 Amen and I tell people look go to church 14:30 if you have a bad experience, go to another church, 14:32 sometimes there's a toxic church, 14:34 go somewhere else, there are many churches 14:36 and if you have a bad experience there, 14:38 go to another church and if you have a bad experience there, 14:40 we need to talk, 14:42 you probably are carrying something with you 14:44 to each situation but that's fantastic, yeah. 14:47 What I've noticed is that 14:48 when people come to Wildwood Lifestyle Center 14:51 where I work is that their relationship of being 14:53 within that group, 14:55 I think it's about 20 people sometimes, 14:59 they really find healing just by being in a group of people 15:03 who are there for the same reason. 15:05 Yeah, don't they go through it like a course or something, 15:07 that they are kind of a team, it's kind of like... 15:09 Well, they attend all the program together... 15:12 Like being on a cruise, you know, 15:14 you're with the same group of people 15:15 that you just met. 15:17 Yeah. 15:18 And you're saying they develop a real bond. 15:19 Right and so just simply from being... 15:21 developing those friendships in the program 15:23 they find healing and sometimes they've even overcome 15:26 whatever they're going through, 15:27 just simply because they had friends 15:29 even within the program and maybe many of them 15:31 didn't even attend counseling. 15:33 But they have voiced that they find healing simply 15:36 from being in that type of groups. 15:37 That's fantastic. 15:39 My aunt says too that 15:40 as they're eating meals together, 15:41 going to that program together, 15:43 that they're sharing their stories, 15:44 why are they there, what's the brokenness 15:46 that brought there and they go ah, 15:47 and maybe same a brokenness maybe different 15:49 but what they find is, I talk to you, 15:51 I hear your story, I share my story, 15:54 there's a connection and there's I think bonding. 15:55 Right, yeah. 15:57 What do you guys do to, what have you done in your life 16:00 to help yourself live in relationship 16:04 and come out of loneliness? 16:05 Does anybody have a testimony about, 16:07 that you just kind of shared 16:08 but does anybody else have a personal experience 16:12 in being isolated and feeling lonely 16:15 and then finding fellowships? 16:17 Anybody have that? 16:18 That's willing to admit it. 16:20 Well, I grew up in a home with eight kids. 16:22 There is a lot of a surround but... 16:23 No loneliness there. 16:25 ..but there is a lot of brokenness, 16:26 a lot of separations, 16:27 my parents divorced so I grew up in a big house 16:30 so but I thought very lonely, 16:31 I thought very disconnected 16:33 and so, you know, then somebody led me to Christ 16:36 and then when I joined a church 16:37 and got baptized and I have a good experiences 16:39 and not so good experiences in churches 16:41 but when I... first church I joined, 16:43 I had this strong sense of belonging 16:45 that I had this family system... 16:47 Beautiful. 16:48 ..that really helped me and now I have a prayer partner 16:50 so I have another guy in my life that I share with, 16:52 he knows what I'm doing 16:54 and how things are going in life 16:56 and ministry and I know how he is doing, 16:58 so that's been very, very valuable for me 17:00 to be intentional 17:02 'cause I learned how to disconnect. 17:03 Yeah. 17:05 I'm one of those people who said life isn't... 17:06 I don't trust anybody. That's right, that's right. 17:08 So we're talking about me when we're talking about, 17:10 you know, learning to taking time to learn 17:14 how to trust. 17:15 Well, Rob, do you wanna read our presenting problem, 17:17 every show we're gonna have a case study so to speak 17:20 and we're gonna discuss what we would do as counselors 17:23 to treat the individual, so go ahead, 17:25 Rob, why don't you read that? 17:27 Okay, Adelina, a 33 year old woman from Scandinavia, 17:31 working as a nanny comes to counseling complaining 17:34 about of symptoms of depression. 17:36 She has been in the US for three months 17:39 and spends most of her free time with the children 17:41 that she nannies whom she loves very much. 17:44 She regularly attends church 17:45 and even takes some college classes 17:47 but because of her shy temperament 17:50 has trouble with engaging in conversation. 17:52 Adelina doesn't quite feel homesick though 17:55 because her mother is an alcoholic 17:57 and she lost contact with her father 18:00 when he left when she was only four years old. 18:03 She has no siblings, 18:05 her mother's sister lives in Adelina's town 18:08 and is in fact the one who found her the nanny job. 18:11 Adelina wonders if she needs treatment for depression. 18:14 So what would you guys do? 18:16 To help Adelina... 18:19 First of all, would you diagnose her with depression? 18:22 I do wanna know more about her story 18:23 and what the symptoms are and what she's going through. 18:27 Let's just briefly touch on the diagnostic manual 18:31 and how we feel about that. 18:34 You know, it's a system 18:35 of labeling mental health issues 18:39 as they fall into somewhat similar patterns 18:42 or to a definable patterns but it's really in existence, 18:46 mostly for the purpose of counselors getting paid 18:50 for their services through insurance. 18:52 So while it's a reality 18:54 and it's one way of working at reality, 18:56 it is not the ultimate transgender reality, is it? 19:00 So I don't mind these terms and so forth 19:03 and loneliness is not a diagnosis by the way 19:05 but depression is. 19:07 And I think we have to be careful 19:08 not to throw around too many labels, 19:09 you know, because people will be inclined 19:11 to identify with them. 19:13 And I personally think in this case, 19:15 she's not really, necessarily suffering from depression 19:18 because there are actual reasons 19:19 why she's feeling so sad, 19:21 she's disconnected and people can't be happy 19:24 outside of connection. 19:25 So what would you do to try to help her get connected? 19:29 Or do you guys feel the same way about it too? 19:31 Do you think that it's probably just a case of, 19:34 you know... thousands miles from home. 19:35 You know, I think it's such... 19:36 you know, I think as a guideline for us 19:40 but like Paul was saying and others have said, 19:43 I really think it's important to get to know the person 19:46 and see what they are needing individually 19:50 and that can only happen in a room 19:52 when two people are talking and the person sense 19:56 that you're journeying with them, 19:57 that you're their companion in what they're going through. 20:00 And you want them to feel like 20:02 you're connected to them as a person 20:03 and you're not seeing them every time you look at them 20:05 through the lens of depression, 20:07 you know, whatever diagnosis you're using. 20:08 Yeah. 20:10 And there are assessments too for depression and we can, 20:12 we can use a simple assessment to see 20:14 if a lot of these symptoms are present, 20:15 for how long they've been present. 20:17 So we do have tools to try to figure out 20:20 what's going on here, of course. 20:22 But just at first blush, what do you think? 20:24 Is she depressed necessarily or she's just lonely? 20:27 It sounds like she's probably having difficulty adjusting 20:30 to the new culture and more than likely, 20:32 she's lonely because of that... 20:34 Sorry, sorry. I just interrupted you. 20:36 Okay. 20:38 But you were gonna say 20:39 before you were so rudely interrupted? 20:41 I was just gonna say that simply that 20:43 because of the cultural difference 20:45 and adjusting to a new a environment, 20:47 then more than likely she's having more difficulty 20:50 just simply adjusting 20:52 which is a normal process of immigrating to a country. 20:55 And also look at what was going on in the home of origin. 20:58 Those are your baseline relationships, 21:00 your family, the people that are there, 21:02 no matter how far away you go or how much time passes, 21:04 there is, it's always there for you 21:05 and there is a severe rupture in that foundation 21:10 and so that would effect her functioning. 21:12 Listening to what Christina just said 21:14 and if I was the one that was feeling lonely, 21:16 I would feel like she's journeying with me. 21:19 As she was talking she would, 21:22 what she did was she related to what I was going through 21:25 and then she went ahead and said that's normal. 21:29 I would have breathed the sigh of relief. 21:31 Right, I said, " Phew. 21:33 Thank you for listening 21:34 and thank you for letting me feel 21:35 that everything is okay." 21:37 Do you think that as a society 21:38 we're kind of medicating everything? 21:41 Yes. 21:43 Like everything is pathological, 21:45 were human beings designed 21:47 to be able to carry a lot of emotion 21:50 and a huge spectrum of emotions 21:52 and do we tend to catastrophize the negative emotions 21:56 as if those things in and of themselves 21:58 are destructive. 21:59 I think... 22:00 In Psalms, the majority of it in Psalms, 22:02 the vast majority, think about 70 percent of the Psalms, 22:04 they're Psalms of lament. 22:06 Yeah. 22:07 Like, you know, Psalms of sorrow, 22:08 in grief and Jesus was a man of grief and sorrow, 22:10 so this lady has had a lot of loss. 22:13 A loss of a mother to alcohol, 22:15 a loss of the father who leaves her, 22:16 a loss of country like, you know, 22:18 Christina was saying so, if we can help honor the fact 22:21 that she's experienced a lot of loss, 22:23 there is that God using us 22:25 as human agents connecting with her, normalizing it 22:28 and go on, " Ah, there is a reason for this." 22:29 That's right, 22:31 a lot of what I see in this day and age 22:33 was so many labels falling around 22:35 is what I call secondary disturbance 22:36 for the people are disturbed 22:38 and then they're disturbed about being disturbed 22:39 because now they're diagnosed with an illness 22:41 and the first thing I do with people like that 22:43 is I say, " Hey, you know, 22:45 the fact that you feel really deeply sad, 22:47 it's okay, first of all, it won't kill you. 22:49 Secondly, it doesn't make you a loser, 22:52 thirdly it doesn't mean it's always gonna be that way." 22:54 It's not your identity. That's right, that's right. 22:56 I think it's an opportunity for Adelina 23:00 to draw closer to Christ and depend more on Him. 23:03 Sometimes I think we experience some of those emotions 23:06 for that purpose, to be able to draw close to Him. 23:08 Yes, I think so too, um, 23:10 but what about connecting with people, 23:13 what action steps would you give Adelina 23:16 if she attempts to come out of this loneliness 23:19 phase of her life? 23:21 What pactical steps would you give her? 23:23 She's got an aunt who lives in the same town, 23:25 from the same home country who got her the job, 23:27 so that tells me there's some kind of connection, 23:29 so I'd wanna know what is her relationship 23:32 with her now that she's here 23:34 and what is she doing that can encourage, 23:35 like you mentioned church, 23:37 we know statistically women live longer, 23:40 if they go to church, they're healthier. 23:41 We know the studies that show 23:43 that that connection is important, 23:45 so I would probably wanna know, 23:46 what are some of the natural resources around her 23:48 and that could help her. 23:50 That's cool, that's great. 23:51 You know, something else that I would look for 23:53 and I would ask her is, I would ask her 23:55 what is she needing 23:57 when it comes to connecting with someone 23:59 and getting that answer will help us to know, 24:02 would even help her to know where to turn. 24:04 Now that's interesting 24:05 'cause you're saying don't tell her what she needs, 24:07 we'll have her tell you what she needs. 24:09 What is the... 24:10 And she's got a shy temperament. 24:11 And she's a shy temperament, 24:13 so tell me what the value is in that, 24:14 in her telling you 24:15 what she needs versus you telling her what she needs. 24:18 Well, one, 24:20 because it's coming from her and so... 24:22 Well, what's so why, what does that do? 24:24 Well, because she's the one that knows what she needs 24:26 and two, I believe that it makes 24:29 a person feel very important. 24:32 I want to know what you need. 24:35 Three, often times people have a tendency and... 24:39 you know, I'm a person so I have this tendency 24:41 to, you know, stuff my feelings and the Bible does say, 24:45 "Blessed are ye that mourn, for they shall be comforted." 24:48 And perhaps she may just need to take the time 24:51 to mourn over the transition from one country to the next, 24:56 mourn over, you know, as I look at this, 24:58 you know, it says that her aunt 25:00 or a relative found the job for her, 25:03 who knows, she may surprise 25:04 and she's mourning over this new job 25:06 and she doesn't want this job. 25:08 I don't know that but and so she may tell me, 25:10 what I'm needing is to find a job 25:12 that is much more meaningful. 25:14 Do you think that her having a shy temperament 25:17 and coming from this broken family life 25:20 would be inclined to not think about 25:24 what she needs and would be inclined to feel 25:27 so much shame possibly, 25:29 that even thinking about what she needs 25:32 would be considered like, she never even do, 25:35 I mean, if the person was never nurtured, 25:37 the thing that enables me to care for myself as an adult 25:41 is to some degree the formatting 25:43 my brain received by my mother 25:45 as my mother took care of my needs as a child 25:47 and so if I didn't have the benefit of that 25:49 or if my home life was some how compromised 25:51 and my needs were not met as a child, 25:52 I'll be less inclined to know 25:54 how to meet my needs as an adult 25:56 and this is why people who come 25:57 from compromises functional homes 26:00 often develop addictions, 26:01 'cause addictions are a way of trying to feel better 26:03 when you don't know how to make yourself 26:04 feel better in a healthy way. 26:06 Yeah, and this is the beauty of counseling, 26:08 is that we are an objective, perspective that we can give 26:11 that there she may not have had before. 26:13 I went to David, and I'm struggling 26:15 with loss or loneliness and David says to me, 26:18 "what do you need?" 26:20 and it's not easy for me to speak up 26:21 or think about that, 26:23 the message I'm getting is David has confidence in me 26:26 that I can have confidence in myself to sit there 26:28 and, you know, may be, 26:30 might be a minute or two of awkward silence 26:31 which is a lot of time in our socially connected world, 26:35 where we're connected to media 26:36 but not each other but I might have to think about. 26:39 But what you're doing is you're saying to me, 26:41 I'm confident that you can think about this, 26:43 that the Lord can bring you to what you need 26:45 and what you want and then take the next step forward 26:47 that'll look like step by step. 26:49 So to me, you're encouraging her to have self confidence 26:52 that she can think about her own needs 26:55 and what they would look like for her, 26:56 as a person with a shy temperament 26:58 who is moved to a different country. 27:01 Many times a person who is told what they need, 27:06 sometimes more adopt what you're telling them 27:09 or want to implement what you're telling them 27:10 because they aren't convicted that 27:12 that's what they need 27:14 but if they come up with themselves, 27:16 more than likely then they will actually do 27:18 what's necessary to get what they need. 27:21 People are much more likely to act on what they own, 27:24 you know, isn't that kind of where you're coming from 27:26 like what do you need, 27:28 like if she identifies what she needs, 27:29 she's gonna be much more motivated... 27:31 To work on and like Christiana said, 27:33 you know, you can give me a to-do list 27:37 and my resistance starts coming up. 27:40 So thankful that we've had this conversation 27:43 and I'm really, really excited doing the show 27:46 with these amazing people 27:48 and we've had a really productive, 27:49 I think really productive conversation 27:51 here about loneliness 27:52 and I just want to say in closing 27:54 that there is someone to whom you can bring 27:56 all of your needs and the same is Jesus 27:58 and He will connect you not only to Himself 28:00 but to your brothers and sisters in Christ 28:02 and you can learn how to love and be loved. |
Revised 2016-09-26