Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Dr. Jean Wright, Nivishi Edwards, David Guererro
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000012A
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00:28 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:31 We're so glad you came to our program today. 00:34 This is where you will learn about the things that involved 00:37 the inner life of human beings, the psyche. 00:40 We're gonna talk about mental health 00:41 and we're gonna try to provide for you some 00:43 viable practical solutions 00:45 for some of life's most difficult problems. 00:48 My name is Jennifer Jill Schwirzer 00:50 and I'm a counselor in private practice 00:52 and I want to introduce to you my treatment team here. 00:55 First of all we have David Guererro, 00:58 he is from Wisconsin. 01:00 David is a pastor, a life coach, 01:03 a chaplain and he is also studying for, 01:07 to become a... 01:09 Naturopathic doctor, 01:12 he runs a ministry called Rekindle the Flame, 01:14 under which he does seminars 01:16 and he has a wonderful family 01:18 and a beautiful piece of property in Wisconsin. 01:19 So glad to have you here, David. 01:21 Thank you to be here. 01:22 Now I want to know what you have to say. 01:24 We also have Nivischi Edwards. 01:25 Dr. Nivischi is from Tennessee 01:28 and Dr. Nivischi runs a virtual private practice, 01:31 and that simply mean she has distance clients 01:34 and she also teaches at Southern Adventist University, 01:37 is an inspiring author 01:39 and she loves to work with individuals 01:41 to develop good relationships 01:43 including good relationships with themselves, 01:46 yeah, which is powerful. 01:48 Thank you. 01:49 And we have Dr. Jean Wright. 01:51 Dr. Jean is from Philadelphia, my stomping ground as well, 01:55 in fact he goes to my church, 01:57 and Dr. Jean works with 01:59 the Behavioral Health Department 02:01 of Philadelphia 02:03 as the director of Behavioral Health and Justice, 02:06 is that right, Services, that's right. 02:07 That's right, yeah. 02:08 And Dr. Jean has a book that he has written called, 02:10 what it's called again? 02:11 "Find Strength in Your Struggle." 02:13 "Find Strength in Your Struggle." 02:14 Dr. Jean has a private practice 02:17 and he also likes to work on the side with community, 02:21 forgiveness and restoration going into the prisons 02:24 and working with that population. 02:26 And we have Rob last but not least Rob Davidson. 02:31 He is my co-host 02:32 and he works with me in Abide Counseling Network. 02:35 He has a private practice in the DC area, 02:38 and Rob really does a great job 02:40 with just about anything he tries, 02:41 he is a gifted and natural counselor 02:44 but he likes to also help men develop servant leadership 02:47 and biblical integrity and manhood, 02:49 so that's a much needed focus and emphasis. 02:53 And it's so awesome that each one of you are here, 02:56 and I want to just say that 02:57 if anyone is ever curious about these individuals, 03:00 you can go to our website at amultitudeofcounselors.tv 03:06 and look out to get more information, 03:07 and in some cases get free downloads and documents 03:10 and who knows what they're gonna have up there 03:12 but if you need more info, 03:13 go to that website amultitudeofcounselors.tv. 03:18 So our topic today is Psychosis. 03:21 Psychosis, first and foremost 03:23 I want to get a definition of psychosis up there. 03:26 Psychosis is a severe mental disorder 03:29 in which thought and emotions are so impaired 03:33 that contact is lost with external reality. 03:39 So the main illnesses or disorders 03:43 that involves psychosis are schizophrenia and bipolar. 03:49 Bipolar can have psychotic symptoms and schizophrenia, 03:51 pretty much always has psychotic symptoms. 03:55 But also street drugs, alcohol, 03:59 sometimes traumatic brain injury 04:01 or other kinds of brain injury 04:02 can trigger a psychotic episode. 04:04 So what are some of the symptoms of psychosis? 04:07 Let's look at that next. 04:09 First of all disorganized thoughts and speech, 04:13 false beliefs not based in reality, 04:16 we call those delusions, 04:17 particularly unfounded fear or suspicion, 04:20 the KGB is after me, 04:21 the CIA has my number type stuff. 04:24 Hearing, seeing or feeling things 04:26 that are not there 04:27 and we call those hallucinations. 04:30 And thoughts that jump between unrelated topics, 04:33 that's disordered thinking. 04:34 Those are some of the classic markers of psychosis. 04:37 What about the prevalence of psychosis? 04:39 Well, the latest research says 04:41 that schizophrenia is about 1 percent of the population. 04:45 We were talking about this today how... 04:47 I was saying that maybe the fact that 04:50 we don't encounter a lot of people 04:52 with active schizophrenia 04:53 is because they migrate to the streets. 04:55 But you were saying now most people with schizophrenia 04:58 manage it with medication 05:00 and however the street populate, 05:03 the homeless population is by and large 05:05 where many of them are suffering with schizophrenia, 05:07 is that correct? 05:09 Correct. Yeah. 05:10 Bipolar's higher, more bipolar, 05:12 4.4 percent? 05:14 I think bipolar is more of a spectrum disorder 05:17 and schizophrenia is more like 05:19 kind of you have it or you don't, 05:20 is my observation, would you guys agree with that? 05:23 Yes. 05:24 You can have a mild form of bipolar 05:26 and kind of manage it with lifestyle 05:28 and maybe some herbs and stuff 05:29 and then you can have severe bipolar, 05:30 we really do have a lot of psychotic symptoms. 05:33 And the cause thought to be 05:35 a combination of genetics and environment. 05:37 I understand that 05:38 there are more children with schizophrenia born 05:40 in the spring time which makes me wonder 05:43 what's going on with mother 05:44 when she has the baby in utero during those darker months, 05:47 I don't know if there is sunshine exposure things, 05:49 vitamin D, who knows. 05:50 I don't know that we have any solid data on that, 05:54 but I want to talk briefly about 05:56 what's going on neurologically 05:58 because I want to bring something out, 06:00 and what I want to talk about is dopamine pathways. 06:03 Dopamine is a neuro transmitter 06:05 that has to do largely with experience of pleasure 06:08 but it's involved in schizophrenia, 06:12 and I would just like to say that 06:15 anything that disrupts 06:16 the normal chemistry of the brain, 06:18 at least in my thinking could potentially 06:21 set a person out for a psychotic episode 06:23 if they have that tendency to begin with, 06:25 and that's why I personally don't use caffeine 06:27 'cause caffeine effects the dopamine circuit. 06:30 So just want to throw that out there. 06:33 The prognosis for psychotic disorders is that they are, 06:40 they need to be managed and by the grace of God, 06:43 good lifestyle, good social support 06:46 and sometimes medication, 06:47 they can be managed 06:49 and people can have good healthy reasonable, 06:52 functional lives, 06:53 but they must be managed. 06:55 The treatments typically are, 06:57 in my observation and from the reading I've done, 07:00 most bipolar, at least the severe types 07:03 and definitely schizophrenia need to be medicated 07:05 because what you have with these disorders 07:09 is not just lifestyle problems and faulty patterns of thinking 07:14 that can be changed or faulty patterns 07:16 or behavior that can be changed 07:17 but you have organic brain disease 07:19 where there's just a fixed disorder 07:22 in the organic aspect of the brain itself. 07:24 So there is something going wrong there 07:27 and sad as it is, 07:29 that person may have to wait until Jesus comes again 07:32 and then the twinkling of an eye, 07:34 corruption will put on incorruption. 07:36 And until then they may have to manage it with medication 07:39 and that is not a failure, 07:41 and I really want to get that message out 07:43 to those that wrestle with these things 07:44 or know people that do. 07:45 This is not a failure, 07:47 if you need to use medication to manage something, 07:49 don't add insult to injury by heaping blame upon yourself. 07:52 Do the best you can 07:53 and that's all God requires of you. 07:55 Amen? 07:56 Amen. Amen. 07:57 So what do you guys do to help people with these issues 07:59 and I know you, Jean, 08:00 particularly have daily contact with this type of thing, no? 08:03 I do... Yeah. 08:04 And it's part of the, you know, 08:06 the part of when I go into the prison system 08:08 and talk with generally men 08:11 that I'm dealing with 08:12 that have been diagnosed with schizophrenia 08:13 or bipolar I or bipolar II disorder, 08:16 and it is managed with medication 08:18 and sometimes people feel like especially with bipolar, 08:21 they start feeling better and they think, 08:22 well, I can stop my medication, I feel fine. 08:25 You know, and I tell people at the time, you know, 08:26 don't feel like you are damaged 08:28 because you have to take medication for your illness. 08:31 Take medication, it helps you balance your mind, 08:33 the organic issue and they said, well, 08:35 I should be able to pray and get rid of that. 08:37 I tell them pray without ceasing 08:38 and take your medication. 08:39 That's right. 08:41 You know, we do the same thing with diabetes, 08:42 heart disease, 08:44 we tell people take your medication 08:45 and so we should do the same... 08:47 And this is the thing, we don't have this thing 08:48 about physical illnesses, 08:49 particularly things that people did not bring upon themselves, 08:52 it's not a choice that they made it and wake up 08:54 on morning and say, "I want to be diabetic." 08:56 You know maybe they have Type 1 diabetes 08:57 and there is really nothing they can do. 08:59 We don't blame them. 09:00 No, it's a break with reality. Yeah. 09:03 So it's not something that you can necessarily 09:06 just get rid off 09:08 as you said by powerful, positive thing. 09:10 Pull yourself out of... 09:11 It was something that I believe 09:12 God has placed professionals on this earth 09:15 to assist one another. 09:16 So human beings, we're here to help one another. 09:19 So some of us have a particular skill, 09:21 that with God's grace and with preparation 09:24 that we can help one another, 09:25 one of those is a mental health professional. 09:27 And so we have physicians that has specialties, 09:29 we have lots of people who has specialties, 09:31 and this is one that I think if you can get a counselor 09:33 that knows what they are doing 09:34 and is prayed up, 09:36 then you have a good combination 09:37 to manage your mental health. 09:39 That's powerful. 09:40 So what do you say to people that have this set back, 09:41 they are just, they are born with this 09:43 or whatever and it's just, 09:44 they don't want it, they didn't ask for it 09:46 but they suffer with it 09:47 and life is a battle because if then, 09:49 it's harder for them that it is for other people. 09:51 What do you say to them when they say why me? 09:54 Why didn't God, you know, 09:55 why did God let this happen to me? 09:56 When it sort of interrupts their feelings toward God, 10:00 what do you say to them? 10:02 Oh, we typically see with different types of psychosis is 10:05 it's not just an issue with the person 10:08 who is struggling with the illness 10:10 but it's a family, 10:11 it's a system's challenge as well. 10:13 So if I am struggling with schizophrenia, 10:17 my spouse is also struggling 10:19 because it's impacting our marriage relationship, 10:22 it's impacting the children, 10:24 it's impacting my parents and my siblings 10:27 and so I tend to ask them to look at the impact 10:30 that it's having 10:32 and that tends to aid with the empathy 10:35 and assists with the desire for change 10:38 because that's where it starts. 10:39 If I'm struggling with an illness 10:41 and I don't see it or I don't believe it, 10:44 and I don't want to do anything about it 10:47 then I won't. 10:48 However, if I see the impact is having on me, 10:51 on those I love and those who love me, 10:53 that will sometimes help me to make the shifts 10:56 in order to make the changes that are necessary. 10:58 So you're drawing them out of themselves, 11:00 it's not really, nobody lives in a vacuum, 11:02 it's not only affecting you, 11:04 it's affecting everyone around you. 11:05 Absolutely. 11:07 And one thing I say to people, it isn't your fault, 11:08 but it is your responsibility, 11:09 what you're gonna do with this thing, 11:11 you know, this gift so to speak, you know, 11:13 and I know you don't like it 11:15 but what you are gonna do with it? 11:16 Are you gonna handle in such a way 11:18 that it hurts other people 11:19 or you're gonna try to handle 11:21 in the most responsible way possible, 11:22 and don't we use family therapy 11:24 typically with treatment of schizophrenia 11:26 because the tendency 11:27 and from what I understand schiz means to tear away, 11:30 and so one of the primary feature, 11:32 people thinks schizophrenia is two personalities, 11:34 it's not true at all, 11:35 that's associated by gender disorder very rare, 11:37 schizophrenia is much more common. 11:39 Schiz from what I understand means to pull away 11:41 because the tendency of the person 11:42 with schizophrenia is to isolate, 11:44 and so a lot of the treatment isn't just medication. 11:47 Again, counseling, interventions and medication, 11:51 and bringing on that person into fellowship 11:54 and building the relationships... 11:55 And so it's educating those around them, 11:57 so it's a system's approach. 11:59 It's not just the person who is identified as the client 12:02 but those who are around them in their immediate circles 12:05 and even their social circles as well 12:06 to aid in their treatment process. 12:08 And isn't this why, 12:10 was it Nash, was his first name, 12:12 the famous Nobel peace prize winner... 12:16 Yes. 12:17 The movie "Beautiful Mind" 12:19 isn't the reason that they kept him there 12:20 at the university was because they knew 12:23 that if they kept him, 12:24 if he moved away after he retired, 12:26 he would isolate... 12:28 Absolutely. 12:29 He would get worse but they kept in there 12:30 because they all understood him, 12:32 they got him, they knew him 12:33 and they loved him in spite of his idiosyncrasy. 12:35 And he needed that support. 12:36 Yeah, there is no better place 12:38 to find that sometimes than church, 12:39 you know, and if only we would know 12:41 how to help people with these illnesses 12:43 and how not to like blame them for 12:46 having spiritual problems or, you know, 12:49 assuming that it's demon possession 12:51 or whatever and further isolating them, 12:53 if only we knew how to draw them in, 12:55 you know, I think the church could be even more therapeutic 12:58 than it already is. 12:59 As you see that and we talk about support 13:02 in answering the question, 13:03 or at least attempting to answer the question why me? 13:07 One thing that I like to do is try to invite the person 13:10 to consider where have they seen God 13:12 in the experience? 13:14 So it's taking them out of themselves 13:15 and looking for God and looking at a promise, 13:17 well, promises, Bible promises, 13:19 the one is, two are, you know, 13:21 Jesus says in the Book of Mathew, 13:22 "Lord I'm with you always, even to the end of the world." 13:26 And in Hebrews 13, it says, 13:29 "I will be with you always." 13:31 And this says the Lord is my helper. 13:33 And inviting the person to just talk a little bit about 13:36 where have they seen Jesus in their experience, 13:39 where is God? 13:41 Or perhaps, where they sense God isn't? 13:46 And let's take it sometime 13:48 and talk about the presence of God 13:50 and where he is and where he is not 13:51 and let's bring God into the experience. 13:53 Sometimes the best way to get 13:55 into the light is to get out of the darkness. 13:57 And I think if Paul was here, he would been, 13:59 so I'll do it in his absence, he would point out that 14:03 Jesus experienced on the cross 14:05 what we might call psychotic break. 14:06 I mean, he had such an emotional, 14:09 mental meltdown that it caused 14:11 physical symptoms that ultimately took His life. 14:14 So when you say Paul, Paul Coneff. 14:16 Paul Coneff, yeah. 14:17 Okay, not the Apostle Paul. Not the apostle. 14:18 I don't have personal relationship with him, 14:21 or you think I was being so close, 14:23 but Paul Coneff would say, 14:25 'cause he always leads us to the cross 14:27 and he would say that, you know, 14:28 Jesus suffered something like, 14:31 maybe not what we call a psychotic break 14:32 but he definitely had a meltdown, 14:34 that was so powerfully impacting and emotional, 14:37 a wave of emotion was so overpowering 14:39 that he ended up dying of really 14:41 what was a heart attack, 14:43 its called, some people call it pericardial effusion, 14:45 the heart becomes endemic and the fluid bears down 14:49 and burst the heart and that would explain 14:50 why there was blood and water coming out of his side 14:53 when his side was pierced. 14:55 You know, he died of the physical ramifications 14:58 of mental anguish, that's right 14:59 and so he has borne our grieves 15:02 and carried our sorrows 15:03 and we can point people 15:05 with organic brain disease to Jesus 15:07 and say look he knows how you feel, 15:10 you know, and that can really help them come... 15:12 I find it's more effective, like you can argue apologetics 15:17 with people that are struggling with why God questions, 15:20 but it's more effective to just point them 15:23 to a savior who knows how they feel... 15:25 Amen. 15:26 To where they can feel empathically bound to Him 15:29 and that seems to reduce the need 15:31 for an answer to the question 15:32 because they don't feel alone anymore, 15:34 because they know God 15:36 may have allowed this to happen. 15:37 He may have allowed you to suffer 15:38 but he is not asking you to suffer alone, 15:40 he's right beside you. 15:41 Amen. So... 15:42 Notice that Jesus on the cross was alone 15:44 when he said my God, why have you forsaken me, 15:47 and that alone feeling that he is going through, 15:50 we can bridge that to what the client is going through 15:52 because I had a client 15:53 who clearly had schizophrenia coming to me 15:55 and she didn't have anyone else 15:57 to talk to her about this literally. 15:59 So just me sitting there listening to her journey, 16:01 helped here to see that she was not alone. 16:04 So I just needed to, 16:06 just be with her during this whole process 16:08 until and this is an important point, 16:10 my supervisor pointed out, has she been to a doctor? 16:14 And when I brought that to the session, 16:16 I think it was a third or fourth session, 16:18 unfortunately she never came back. 16:20 Why? 16:21 Because she thought that I didn't believe her story. 16:24 She thought that this was all medical 16:26 and I wasn't believing in her story. 16:28 But that's an important point 16:29 bringing the medical doctor into the team. 16:31 Absolutely. 16:32 So you want to go ahead 16:34 and give our presenting problem. 16:36 Although a medicate client 16:37 and with a low income 43 year old Hispanic Tony 16:41 looks at the picture of success 16:43 as he strides into the office in a designer suit. 16:46 Well groomed, facial hair and a cloud of cologne. 16:49 He explains that he works as an advocate 16:51 for the mentally ill, 16:52 being diagnosed bipolar himself. 16:54 Tony has just been baptized 16:56 and is a strong believer in the Bible. 16:58 He talks enthusiastically about his faith 17:01 but by the third or fourth session 17:02 you notice that he had some extreme ideas 17:04 regarding what the Bible teaches about spiritual gifts. 17:08 By the fifth session Tony tells you 17:10 that he believes you are a prophet 17:11 and the angel Gabriel, 17:14 the archangel has spoken to him, 17:17 tell him that you too are the two of you 17:19 have a special mission to fulfill 17:21 in giving the last message to a dying world. 17:24 What do you do? 17:27 And there is silence in the land. 17:30 Yeah. 17:31 Well, you can build on Tony strengths. 17:33 He believes in the Bible, 17:36 and he enthusiastically talks about his faith. 17:40 And so we can or what I would do is 17:44 just take a moment 17:46 and try to align the word of God 17:48 and truth with this mission that he is trying to. 17:52 Well, he is saying that we need to go on 17:55 and just talk a little bit about that mission. 17:57 You know that's so good, 17:59 we had an individual in our lives 18:01 at one point who has since passed. 18:03 But this individual would have psychotic breaks 18:06 very and frequently but she would have them 18:08 and one came upon her once 18:10 and she became convinced that my husband was Jesus 18:12 and I was Mary Magdalene. 18:14 And the way we talked her down off that ledge was 18:16 'cause she was a believer. 18:17 We said, when Jesus comes again, 18:19 his feet won't touch the ground. 18:20 And she saw the evidence right there in scripture 18:22 and she said, you're right, he is not Jesus. 18:24 And that fixed the problem, so you're so right, 18:26 you draw in the strengths of the person they're believer, 18:29 you know, pull out the Bible, have all Bible study with him, 18:32 so that's good. 18:33 What do you do with as person in this condition, 18:36 how do you help them? 18:38 In this case, probably the first thing 18:39 I would do is what Rob suggested, 18:41 I would make sure that 18:42 there has been a medical workup 18:44 and make sure that I can rule it out 18:46 things that maybe of a medical condition, 18:48 and so that helps me to sort of isolate 18:51 what the issues may be, 18:52 and then I can have that conversation with them 18:54 once I rule out any medical challenges 18:56 that may be the reason 18:57 or something medically induced. 18:58 How would you introduce that to him now 19:00 and that he could offended. 19:02 He could but I would just talk about 19:03 his overall general health. 19:04 and you've come to me for this purpose, 19:06 and you know, I'm a physical, 19:08 I'm not a physical scientist, 19:11 I'm a psychological person 19:12 and so you come to me for counseling 19:14 but always refer to my medical physicians and say, 19:18 hey, can we rule out something personal, 19:20 how is your general healthy and talk to him about that. 19:22 And I think that he may be 19:24 probably pretty proud of his health 19:26 and so he may want to talk about it 19:27 but that's one thing 19:29 I want to do is rule those things out. 19:30 But can an average doctor's, you know, 19:32 like an average physical identify as schizophrenia. 19:37 No, I wouldn't be asking him to rule 19:39 to identify schizophrenia, 19:40 I want just a medical workup. 19:42 Okay. 19:43 I will handle the mental part, 19:45 I just want him to do a physical workup, 19:46 so I can see if there are any physical challenges 19:48 or issues that we should have. 19:49 Oh, they could be contributing. Correct. 19:51 So I'm not asking them to diagnose, you know, 19:53 health condition. 19:54 I just want to refer to him. 19:55 Notice that his individual has been diagnosed 19:57 with bipolar already. 19:58 So is there medication in the picture. 20:00 Has he taken himself off medication, 20:01 these are all important things we need to know. 20:03 You need to know that history. 20:04 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 20:06 How do you bring in the supernatural, 20:08 some people say and people start acting 20:09 irrationally like that, it's just the devil. 20:12 And some people say it's never the devil, you know, 20:14 it's always just this illnesses, 20:16 what do you guys think about that, 20:17 throwing out there, thrown you a bone... 20:21 a vegetarian. 20:22 I had a case very similar to this 20:23 and of course, 20:26 every case is different but what helped in that case 20:30 was including the family in the experience 20:36 and I wasn't the counseling the person per se, 20:40 it was at a church I was pastoring 20:42 and the person was coming to me at times 20:44 and I did exactly what I said earlier, 20:47 we went through scripture and we talked about some things 20:50 but it just kept escalating and so I, 20:53 you know, as a pastor I knew the family 20:55 and I just initiated the call and said, 20:56 you know, this is going on. 20:58 Can you give me some insight, yeah. 20:59 You told the family. Yeah. 21:00 and one of the brother said, 21:02 I will call and then the individual said, 21:05 you know, now that you called me, 21:06 why don't the three of us meet with the pastor. 21:09 And so, the family member was there in the room 21:12 and because they knew the history, 21:14 they were able to talk to the person directly 21:16 because they had that relationship 21:18 and start to bring, you know, turn things around. 21:20 So the family member talked to the person directly. 21:23 Yes, yes. 21:24 They came to the next session or the next meeting together 21:28 and because the individual invited the family member, 21:32 they said, you know, why don't you call, 21:33 why don't the two of us go see pastor David, 21:36 and that was a blessing, it was a blessing, 21:38 so getting the family... 21:40 Yeah, getting the family involved somehow, 21:42 so you have that support. 21:43 It sounds like the team approach could be 21:45 very effective to deal with this client 21:47 and deal with clients with psychosis 21:49 and generally talked about the medical need, 21:51 he also talked about that Rob, 21:53 psychiatric needs are also important 21:55 because that's usually 21:56 where the med management comes in, 21:58 looking at the family needs 21:59 and any kind of social supports 22:01 that may be important as well, 22:02 and then ask the clinicians 22:04 so a team approach to support the person 22:05 in their area of need to shift them 22:08 and to help them to get more aligned 22:10 with what they're struggling with. 22:11 You know, I don't want to get away from 22:13 what you brought up. 22:14 I don't think any of us would deny 22:15 that demon possession 22:17 obviously it's in the Bible and it still happens today. 22:19 So how do we as professionals know the difference 22:21 if somebody is presenting to us with certain issues 22:24 and you spoke to that pretty nicely off camera. 22:27 Yeah, one of the things that came to mind is 22:28 when I look at schizophrenia, 22:30 it is definitely an organic disease 22:33 or certainly a break in reality 22:35 whereas what I read in the Bible about possession 22:38 the whole person has changed, 22:39 even with the different voice and actions 22:41 and behaviors that 22:43 clearly are not from the human source, 22:45 where as schizophrenia is not that at all, 22:48 so the person is not going to change their voice, 22:50 they're not going to talk differently. 22:51 Now they may attend to external stimuli hallucinations 22:55 that are not there, 22:57 but it's not something 22:58 where you can compare to a demon possession, 23:00 there are not multiple personalities 23:02 inside their body or inside their head, 23:04 and I think that's one way to draw a line of demarcation 23:07 between schizophrenia 23:09 and what we may see as demon possession. 23:10 We can see supernatural changes in the person. 23:12 Absolutely. Yeah. 23:13 So we're all in that same page that we believe that 23:15 there is such a thing as demon possession, 23:17 supernatural activity, 23:18 we're not about to deny that and just say, 23:20 oh, it's just illness, you know. 23:22 We wrestle not against flesh or blood, 23:24 but against principalities and powers, absolutely. 23:27 And I would go little further and say, 23:28 the devil knows our weaknesses 23:30 including our brain weaknesses 23:32 and he is standing by at all times 23:33 to capitalize on that, 23:35 but fortunately Jesus is stronger than Satan 23:38 and he fights him off if we trust in him, 23:40 so I'm so thankful for that because I, 23:43 and I also believe that what we need to do with people 23:46 that have these kinds of illnesses is 23:48 we need to gather around them as a church 23:51 and we need to pray for them 23:52 and strive for their best health with them 23:55 instead of isolating from them 23:56 because they act different sometimes and strange 23:58 and it's very easy to be like pulling away from them, 24:02 but we need to instead take upon ourselves 24:04 the responsibility of making their church experience 24:06 as positive as possible. 24:08 I remember talking to a lady 24:09 that every time she tried to go to church, 24:10 she knew she needed Jesus, 24:12 she start hearing voices as soon as 24:13 she enter the building and I said, 24:16 get a group of people around you 24:17 and have a prayer right 24:19 as you're at the door of the church 24:20 to ward off the devil 24:22 because he can't attack you 24:24 when you're covered with prayer, he can't. 24:26 The ways that to happen that was for us 24:28 as the church members to educate ourselves 24:30 about these illnesses. 24:32 So we're not afraid of it 24:33 and we don't reject the person 24:35 who is exhibiting those things. 24:36 Don't reject them 24:38 and don't add the stigma of spiritual failure 24:40 to an illness that they already are wrestling 24:43 with that they did not ask for, 24:44 that's already putting them at disadvantage, 24:46 but don't be cruel in that way 24:48 and recognize get it through your head 24:51 believers that there is such a thing 24:53 as organic brain disease. 24:54 Let me say something I think it's important 24:56 because you know, I've pastored churches, 24:59 I agree with everything that you're saying and I affirm it, 25:01 however something else that needs to be consider is 25:05 as long as everyone's gonna be safe 25:09 because I was in a situation 25:11 where the individual was coming to church 25:13 and it no longer, 25:15 the church no longer became a safe place to go 25:16 'cause of the outburst. 25:18 Now you still have to love them and support them 25:20 but as the church you have to see 25:21 how can we still make the church safe 25:23 and still love and take care of the individual 25:26 that needs help. 25:27 That's really a good point. 25:29 It is. Thank you. 25:30 And unfortunately, 25:32 I need to start doing the recap here, 25:33 there's so much more that we could talk about. 25:34 It's a very helpful, though, Guy. 25:36 Medication, there are such things 25:38 as brain chemicals that are out of balance. 25:40 A medication really can help. 25:42 A break with reality is what we're speaking about here, 25:46 which is different from demon possession 25:47 with supernatural tendencies. 25:49 Family system is vital to bring into picture, 25:52 a team approach. 25:53 We're talking about the medical doctor, 25:55 the physiatrist or the medicine, therapy, 25:58 bring the team, bring the family in, 25:59 bring social contacts in 26:01 because when we're talking about 26:02 managing this disorder or these disorders, 26:06 we're not talking about complete healing, 26:09 we're talking about managing the best way we can. 26:11 And everybody needs support 26:12 and everybody needs to be aware of what's going on. 26:14 So education is huge 26:16 when it comes to the support system 26:18 or comes to the church itself. 26:20 Where is God in all of these? 26:22 He's right with us. Amen. 26:23 And we need to really go to scripture 26:25 and go to the cross. 26:26 Oh, my goodness, 26:27 Jesus was so alone on the cross. 26:29 And we could all identify with that at times in our life, 26:34 how alone we can be, so we have to go to the cross, 26:36 have to go to scripture. 26:38 Amen. 26:39 And when the medical doctor comes into play, 26:42 we can rule out a lot of medical causes 26:44 that may not be a part of the picture 26:46 up to this point with the client, 26:49 so, you know, the team approach is vital 26:52 when we're talking about psychosis. 26:54 We can't do it all, we don't have all the answers 26:56 but we sure know the one who does, don't we? 26:58 Amen, his name is Jesus. 27:00 So we're so thankful that 27:01 you were with us on this program, 27:03 friends, and we hope that 27:05 you've learned something helpful 27:06 and practical that will better equip you 27:09 to manage your own issues and help other people 27:12 handle theirs as we struggle through the rest of our lives 27:15 here on this earth waiting for Jesus 27:16 to change us in the twinkling of an eye. 27:19 I want to close with the couple of scriptures. 27:21 May the peace of God rule in your hearts, 27:24 keeping your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus, 27:26 and I know I didn't say that just right, 27:27 but it's Philippians 4:7 so you can look it up 27:29 and also God has not given us the spirit of fear 27:31 but of power and of love and of a sound mind, 27:36 2 Timothy 1:7. 27:38 Trusting in Jesus can mitigate 27:41 the assaults of even organic mental illness 27:44 and help take the edge off 27:45 some of the things we struggle with. 27:47 Jesus is standing by you 27:49 moment by moment, day after day 27:51 to empower you to do the things 27:52 you could never do in your own flesh, 27:55 and he will also provide for you 27:57 a family and fellowship 27:58 if you trust in him. 28:00 See you next time. |
Revised 2016-12-01