Participants: Jennifer Jill Schwirzer Robert Davidson (Host), Nivischi Edwards, Christina Cecetto, Dr. Jean Wright
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC000013A
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00:28 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:31 We're so thankful you came to our program today. 00:35 We're looking forward to sharing with you 00:37 from our experience, 00:40 from our knowledge base and from the word of God, 00:42 principles that will enhance your mental health 00:45 and the mental health of those to whom you minister. 00:48 I want to introduce my treatment team 00:50 that's here today, thankful for each one of them. 00:53 First we have Dr. Jean Wright, he's from Philadelphia 00:57 and he is the director of the behavioral... 01:02 Say it for me I was... 01:03 Director of Behavioral Health and Justice Services. 01:05 Services, which is part of the behavioral 01:06 health department. 01:07 Correct, yes. 01:09 And he also is an author, he has a private practice 01:13 and he loves to work on the side 01:15 with community forgiveness and restoration 01:19 and that with the present population correct... 01:21 And that is just so cool. 01:23 And we've got Christina Cecetto, 01:26 she is from Georgia 01:29 she is a licensed master's in social work, 01:33 she also woks at Wildwood Lifestyle Center, 01:37 she likes to focus on anxiety, mood disorders, and phobias, 01:42 and that's a unique contribution you make 01:44 because phobia is a very commonly diagnosed 01:46 anxiety disorder. 01:48 So, so thankful to have you here, 01:50 Christina, you're a blessing 01:51 and you're really our local lifestyle medicine expert. 01:55 And Dr. Nivischi Edwards is from Tennessee, 02:00 she is a virtual private practice counselor, 02:04 she also works in Southern Adventist University, 02:07 she is working on a book 02:09 and she likes to help people develop healthy relationships, 02:12 including a relationship with themselves 02:14 which is important. 02:17 And John, sorry I'm calling you John 02:19 after all these years. 02:20 How did they even know who you are? 02:23 And Robert Davidson my co-host is from the D.C. area. 02:28 He works with me in a private practice 02:31 through a bite counseling network. 02:33 And he treats a variety of issues 02:35 with a variety of different presentations 02:37 but he likes to help men develop servant leadership 02:40 and Biblical integrity and Biblical manhood 02:43 so that's very needed in today's environment 02:46 of so many divorces and families falling apart 02:49 and Pornography addiction is pandemic, 02:51 so we're so thankful that you're on that. 02:53 And you're Jennifer. 02:55 And I'm Jennifer Jill Schwirzer. 02:57 And I'm a private practice counselor, 02:59 and I do a few other things on the side 03:01 and stop teasing me you guys. 03:06 We're talking about mood disorders today, 03:08 mood disorders are a real common diagnosis 03:11 in the mental health field. 03:13 So let me give you a definition first. 03:16 Mood disorders are not surprisingly disorders 03:20 that have to do with the mood. 03:21 We all have a certain level of happiness, 03:25 if you can call it that or a level of mood 03:27 that we enjoy everyday and the mood can go up, 03:30 the mood can go down 03:32 but when that process goes awry either 03:34 because of brain chemistry or faulty thinking 03:36 or whatever, history of trauma, 03:38 sometimes we develop a mood disorder. 03:41 So let's look at some of the major mood disorders 03:43 that we see on a day-to-day basis 03:45 in our offices. 03:47 First of all, the most common of course, 03:49 is major depressive disorder. 03:51 That's simply and I'm not going to go into the detail 03:53 into the diagnosis but that's simply a person 03:55 who's depressed for a prolonged period of time 03:57 to the point where it affects the relationships 03:59 and their functioning. 04:01 And then Dysthymic Disorder if I can just simplify, 04:04 it's really a mild form of depression essentially, 04:07 it's not as severe as major depressive 04:09 but some of the features are present. 04:11 Then we have Bipolar Disorder 04:12 which is wildly fluctuating moods. 04:15 And this can happen in very severe form 04:18 or if they're of extreme high moods 04:20 with what we call manic episode, 04:22 when person is up at night and they're not sleeping 04:24 and they're taking on all kinds of adventures, 04:27 doing all kinds of things or we can see it, 04:30 and then the person crashes into a extremely low mood 04:33 or we can see that cycle very rapidly. 04:36 So it's kind of a dodgy disorder in the sense, 04:40 they would say dodgy in Australia 04:42 and I have Australian friends. 04:43 But it's difficult to pin point it. 04:46 It has kind of a variety of presentations. 04:48 And then, of course, 04:49 Cyclothymic Disorder is a mild form of bipolar 04:53 if I can call it that. 04:54 So those are the major mood disorders. 04:56 What about the prevalence of mood disorders it hovers 04:59 from what I read about 10% of people struggle 05:03 with mood disorders 05:04 and it's higher in women than in men. 05:07 The regulation of our mood is largely a function 05:10 of the neurotransmitter serotonin 05:13 and apparently women have a little less serotonin 05:15 in the brain than men from what I've read. 05:17 So women can have a more difficult time 05:19 with regulating the mood 05:20 and they're also more prone to anxiety. 05:23 But there are other sub groups that struggle too. 05:25 For instance and I learn this recently, 05:27 are physicians in training. 05:29 Physicians in training and I've met a couple of them 05:32 and I could see why they're depressed. 05:33 They're just... 05:34 They almost haze them 05:36 if they have to go through so much 05:37 during the residencies and so forth. 05:39 The cause of the depression 05:40 of course seems to be kind of that cocktail 05:42 of nature and nurture and sometimes 05:44 current life-triggering situations 05:47 and that's part of our job, isn't it? 05:49 It is to find out what the cause is 05:50 because we got a reason from cause to affect 05:53 because if we can eradicate the cause 05:55 then we've effectively treated the disorder. 05:58 The prognosis as always is, it is very treatable 06:03 because there is hope and health in healing in Jesus. 06:07 He is the health of our countenance 06:09 and our God. 06:10 So the treatments include things like lifestyle changes 06:13 that can help with the mood because it helps the whole body 06:16 and the brain is a physical organ, 06:18 it's a part of the human body and you improve the body, 06:20 you're improving the brain. 06:21 We also use talk therapy, we use... 06:25 Faith is a big component of my recovery 06:27 from depression, social supporters 06:30 are very important component of treatment of depression. 06:33 Some herbs and supplements 06:34 seem to help depression in my experience 06:37 and also medications are sometimes called for 06:40 and of course, the famous SSRI drugs, 06:43 Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors help more serotonin 06:47 to be in those synaptic gaps in the brain 06:51 and so the peoples mood improves typically 06:53 on those medications. 06:55 And sometimes those are called for, 06:57 we also use... 06:58 The standard treatment 06:59 is cognitive behavioral therapy, 07:01 have negative life experiences, 07:02 out of those negative experience 07:04 come negative feelings but there are something 07:06 that mediates between those two things 07:08 and that is cognitive processing, 07:10 I can change the way I think about things 07:12 by the grace of God, 07:13 and as Paul brought out so well, 07:15 our other team member here. 07:17 We receive those beliefs, those truths from Jesus. 07:21 We don't just work hard to change our thoughts, 07:23 we receive them from Jesus, he empowers us 07:26 and our will aligning with his will 07:28 brings about that change. 07:29 So our thoughts can change, and when our thoughts change 07:31 typically our feelings change. 07:33 So those were the things that I know about that 07:35 help with mood disorders, what do you guys use? 07:38 What do you do when clients present with these issues 07:41 and feel free to talk about anything depression bipolar 07:44 or whatever, you have experience with. 07:46 I like to expand on the word you used Jennifer, a lifestyle, 07:50 because it's holistic and one of the first things 07:53 I look at with clients who are struggling 07:55 with different moods or disorders 07:56 is what's your eating habits like? 08:00 How is your sleeping pattern? Are you working out? 08:04 You talked about social support, 08:05 so all those things are vial 08:07 because I think sometimes 08:08 what happens is we neglect those things 08:10 when our moods are impacted, 08:12 those are the first things that we neglect. 08:13 It's a first thing, let go. Absolutely. 08:15 Even when I talk with my students, you know, 08:17 being a student, it can be a very stressful life, 08:21 and if it's final's week 08:23 or if it's the beginning of the semester 08:25 and all the things are impacting 08:27 and the emotions are high or low, 08:29 I encourage the students, well, 08:31 look at what's going on with you, 08:33 and what is your prevention plan, 08:36 to make sure that your mood stays or floats 08:39 so you're in the healthiest state to be most productive. 08:41 You mentioned that often when people need those 08:44 to make those choices is when they start making them 08:47 because their mood is low. 08:48 I have client that really struggles with bipolar 08:50 and goes down to the depths of the lows 08:54 and the thing that has really turned him around 08:55 'cause he wouldn't even want to get out of bed, 08:57 is I said, "Look, even if you don't feel like it 09:00 you still have this thing called a free will," 09:02 and he kind of discovered the power of the will 09:04 and he learned how to just, how to ask, you know, 09:07 obviously ask Jesus to come into his life 09:10 and then he exercised that will 09:12 and it's really been quiet transformative for him. 09:14 So people often have kind of a subconscious belief 09:18 that I have to go by my feelings. 09:20 If I feel badly I have to just act out that way 09:23 but they don't really fully tap into the power of the will 09:27 and really I think very few of us 09:30 take full advantage 09:32 of what we have in the power of will. 09:33 I love what you just said. 09:34 My grandma struggled with Alzheimer's 09:36 toward the end of her life. 09:38 And you know that kind of disrupts the mood often. 09:40 You're very discombobulated. 09:42 One thing I learned from her, just watching her, 09:45 she experienced the struggle with that illness. 09:48 She always showed up, 09:50 she always completed her daily life tasks, the DLTs. 09:53 Really? 09:54 She got up, didn't matter what was going on 09:56 or what the voices were saying or what her emotions were, 09:58 she got up and she showed up and that's really important, 10:01 I encourage clients to do that. 10:03 Get up, you don't want to do it anyway, 10:06 you brush your teeth, you wash your face, 10:08 you take a shower, you get dressed. 10:10 And sometimes it takes everything in one's power 10:13 when they're struggling with different moods of disorders, 10:16 to do those daily life tasks. 10:17 But I encourage them, I tell my grandma to do it, 10:19 she was struggling toward the end of her life. 10:22 But you get up and you do those daily life tasks 10:25 and you'll be amazed how that can sometimes be 10:28 what you need to move yourself for it. 10:30 Unfortunately, when we were depressed, 10:32 we don't feel like doing those life tasks 10:34 and this is where support systems 10:35 around us are vital. 10:37 Absolutely. 10:38 And we tend to isolate ourselves 10:40 when we were depressed. 10:41 We don't want to be near others. 10:43 But those who are in our support sys 10:44 need to be aware of this, 10:46 and kind of invite themselves into their space 10:50 when they're really feeling so down 10:51 that they don't want to do these daily life tasks. 10:54 You said the message 10:55 when people stop engaging in the... 10:57 What do you call a DLT not BLT? 10:58 DLT. 11:00 Not to be confused with BLT is that the message 11:02 there is I don't matter, I'm insignificant 11:05 and when you engage in the action of actually 11:08 caring for yourself... 11:10 Yes. 11:11 You're effectively affirming... 11:13 You're changing. The belief... 11:14 Absolutely. 11:15 And sometimes we have to refute those false beliefs 11:17 behaviorally. 11:18 That's why they're called "Cognitive behavioral." 11:20 Sometimes, if you think 11:21 there is a bogeyman in the closet, 11:23 the best way to refute that is to go walk in that closet. 11:26 And another point that you brought up 11:27 that I thought it was really important 11:28 was that we need to address the cause, 11:30 because sometimes, many times depression is caused 11:34 by remorse for sin, by unforgiveness, 11:37 lack of forgiveness, guilt, 11:39 and if we don't address these things, 11:41 here we address the lifestyle changes 11:43 and when the person is just going to continue 11:45 being depressed. 11:46 And they look six years longer in utter misery, 11:48 and we do not want that, we want people to have life 11:51 and have it more abundantly. 11:52 So what do you do though 11:53 that's so personal like remorse for sin, 11:57 how do you address that with clients 11:59 and how do you get them to deal with forgiveness issues? 12:02 Really using scripture 12:04 and that's where scripture comes in. 12:06 How can someone learn to forgive them, 12:09 forgive whoever it might be. 12:12 And so a lot of prayer, allow the Holy Spirit coming in 12:15 and really it's a lot of spiritual counseling. 12:19 Yeah. 12:20 So you mentioned in your book also spiritual depression. 12:22 What do you mean by spiritual depression, 12:25 versus just generic depression? 12:27 I actually do a breakdown where I make... 12:29 Draw a parallel between 12:30 clinical and spiritual depression, 12:31 looking at symptomatology. 12:33 And some of the things 12:34 that you've expressed Christina, 12:36 I've seen in my clients 12:37 that may have either sleeping too much or not enough, 12:39 eating too much or not enough 12:41 and also insomnia those type of things. 12:43 Isolation, you know, especially from people, places, 12:45 and things that remind you of church or Christianity, 12:49 I've seen that happen to a lot of people 12:50 and so someone would do with organic depression, 12:54 they do the same thing with spiritual depression 12:56 trying to distance themselves from those things 12:58 they see as painful God doesn't love me, 13:01 I'm not lovable, I'm not worthy, 13:02 those kind of things. 13:04 So people with spiritual depression are shutting God 13:06 and religion out of there lives typically? 13:08 Typically and they may not even recognize that that's the core 13:11 or that's the source of their depression. 13:13 They may have gone to physicians 13:15 or the people who have tried to diagnose 13:17 a more organic depression but it doesn't really add up. 13:19 Yeah. You know. 13:21 And surrender is... 13:22 I believe the solution to the spiritual depression. 13:26 I have seen clients recover just quickly, once they have, 13:30 once they're able to truly surrender things to the Lord 13:32 and really listen to what he has to tell them, 13:35 as Paul Coneff was talking about but also I think 13:38 the worst type of depression 13:39 that I've treated is that which is caused by burnout. 13:43 I find that has a very slow recovery process 13:46 because they physically and mentally have truly burnt, 13:50 they're burnout. 13:51 There're something organic 13:53 to tap into the result to overwork. 13:55 It's that... 13:56 So you find that to be more difficult than generic... 13:59 Even spiritual depression that's interesting. 14:02 I wanna go back to this for a moment, 14:03 Jesus himself experienced depression. 14:08 And you talked about surrender 14:11 and I just see how counselor's job 14:13 is very much in a sense 14:15 an apologist or someone who really presents God 14:18 in such a way that people want to receive him 14:20 'cause who would want to surrender to someone 14:21 that they don't trust. 14:23 Right. 14:24 So we first have to show God's trust worthiness 14:26 to people and how do we do that to people 14:28 that are feeling a sense of despair 14:31 like their life is a waste, 14:32 like there is nothing to live for. 14:34 I think the best thing would be to show them 14:36 a savior who actually carried that burden for them 14:39 all the way to the cross. 14:40 I think it's also important to help them reconnect 14:43 with positives 14:44 that have happened in their life. 14:46 I know about you Christina 14:47 but many of the people I've worked with 14:48 they have selective memory 14:50 they only focus on the negative things 14:51 that are happening. 14:53 Yeah, dichotomous thinking. Yes, thank you. 14:54 So it's good to get them to acknowledge and remember 14:57 the blessings, okay. 14:59 Do not lose track of the blessings 15:01 'cause if you help a person think back 15:02 they will have to admit, "Well, wow, yeah, 15:04 I don't know how I got through that situation. 15:06 Things important to realize though 15:07 and acknowledge that 15:09 when one is depressed that is where the mind goes. 15:10 Yes. 15:12 It's hard to tap into the goodness, 15:13 to the health, to the blessings 15:15 and so reminding of that is so vital. 15:17 Well, I think that's part of our job. 15:18 Absolutely. 15:19 You know, it's taking people back to those things and say, 15:21 "Hey, remember these things, 'cause you got through 15:22 a difficult time nothing but the grace of Jesus, 15:25 and then get them through then say 15:26 you can get through this time and then goes Bible texts 15:28 that you've referred to I think it'll help. 15:30 Can I give a quick example? Sure, go ahead. 15:32 I was counseling with the young girl, 15:35 she was nine and she came into my office one day 15:38 and she said, "I've had a horrible, horrible week," 15:41 and I said "What happened?" 15:42 And she said, "Well, I've got burnt here, 15:45 I lost a tooth and I got a cold sore." 15:48 And so I asked her, "Oh, I'm sorry." 15:50 I told her sorry about all that, 15:51 but did anything go well this week? 15:54 And it took her about 20 minutes 15:55 but she came up with five things that went well, 15:58 but it was it took... 16:00 It was like trying to open an oyster. 16:02 Right and these things are actually quiet large things 16:04 that had happened to her she had gone to got a museum 16:07 and someone had bought her some clothing 16:09 and so it was quiet large things but we tend to, 16:11 as you were saying, go to these dark places 16:13 and we don't look at the big picture. 16:16 And as a counselors it's easy for us 16:19 to get sucked into their despair 16:20 and like they want to look at the problems 16:22 and look at the problems 16:23 and we look at the problems with them 16:25 and you got to do that to some degree 16:26 to build empathy, 16:27 but at some point we got to step back and say, 16:29 the biggest problem was 16:31 you're looking at the problems all the time. 16:32 Right. 16:33 It's the key to CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy 16:35 is not to focus in on the symptomatology... 16:37 Right. Yeah. 16:38 Focusing on strengths, focusing on how we connect 16:40 out thoughts and our behaviors. 16:41 Right. Process not content. 16:43 Yes, absolutely. 16:44 And I just want to testify and say that Jesus has... 16:46 He'd largely healed me from depression. 16:49 I still have the tendency but I'm an artist 16:52 and I lean in that direction 16:54 and I've had heavy experiences of feeling 16:57 like there was a grand piano on my chest and it's very... 17:00 It sucks you in, it's just... 17:02 It's really intense and then if you setup that feedback loop 17:05 where your negative emotions become evidence... 17:07 Yes. 17:09 Of what's really going on 17:10 then you've created a feedback loop 17:11 and it never ends because you feel negative 17:14 about feeling negative and it just cycles down, 17:17 so Jesus was able to pull me out of that and I'm grateful. 17:20 Yeah. Amen. 17:21 And that's part of our process as counselors is to help people 17:25 to see that the hope that there is. 17:27 The good that's in their life 17:29 and we talked about journaling in the past 17:31 and I love to and focus journal about the good 17:33 because otherwise we would just totally forget about it, 17:36 go back and remember the good. 17:37 Can I add one last point? Sure. 17:39 I think of Jesus when he was in the desert 17:42 and every single time he was tempted to believe something 17:45 that the devil wanted him to believe, he would say 17:48 "It is written, 17:50 it is written, it is written." 17:53 The truth is up in the document itself. 17:55 Right. Not in the temptation. 17:57 Yeah. 17:59 So we can do the same thing with whatever. 18:01 Well, first when you identify those thoughts of course 18:03 and bring thought into obedience and how's it... 18:06 To captivity to the obedience of Jesus Christ. 18:08 That's right. 18:10 And then be able to replace that with truth, 18:12 right and the truth will set us free. 18:14 Amen. 18:15 Do a presenting problem real quick? 18:16 Yeah. Okay. 18:18 Tamika, a 29-year-old, upper middle class mother 18:20 of Jamaican Heritage, with two small children 18:23 presents with severe depression over the last several months. 18:26 She feels overwhelmed by her responsibilities 18:29 and cannot seem to function as a stay-at-home mom. 18:31 Her husband, a 30-year-old second generation 18:34 Romanian immigrant and mechanical engineer 18:36 working for General Motors 18:38 provides well for the family but feels bewildered 18:41 by his wife's difficulties given their beautiful home 18:44 and their healthy children. 18:45 She reports that he has insisted 18:47 that she get help for her depression 18:50 and this is why she is here. 18:52 So this is a classic presentation, 18:54 she's got everything that would normally make a person happy 18:59 or we would think would make a person happy 19:01 but she lacks something inside 19:04 to get to that place of contentment. 19:07 And by the way, I don't think God wants us to have 19:09 elated feelings all the time but I do think our default mode 19:13 according to design is one of joy 19:15 there is a wonderful book called 'Return to joy' 19:17 you know, and I think 19:19 that's what God wants for us ideally 19:20 and that we're capable of that. 19:22 It doesn't mean that we wouldn't deviate 19:24 from that sometimes and feel sometimes very intense sorrow 19:27 in a response to some of life's difficulties. 19:30 But I think God does want us to be... 19:31 Absolutely. 19:33 The purpose of life is not to be happy. 19:34 The purpose of life is to glorify God 19:36 and to grow into his image. 19:38 I'm firm on that 19:39 but a byproduct of that is joy. 19:42 And God wants us to be happy. 19:44 So what would you do for this woman? 19:47 I think one of the first things that came to mind 19:49 and you've probably heard me say this 19:50 in other programs and other instances 19:52 but she has two small children 19:55 and the first thing I do want to know is... 19:57 I wanna get a medical exam and rule out postpartum. 20:00 That's right. 20:01 It's probably one of the first things I want to know. 20:02 This... 20:04 Always want to rule out any medical inducing possibilities. 20:08 And then beyond that once we get those tests back 20:11 then we can maybe know what we're dealing with. 20:12 And so I would start with that. 20:14 How long after birth can women suffer from postpartum? 20:17 It can be several months to upwards 20:19 of eight to nine months almost a year 20:21 depending on the individual. 20:23 And I think also depending on what they're disposition 20:25 was before conception and having the child. 20:28 So I think there is a wide continuum, you know, 20:31 not my area of expertise but certainly one 20:33 that I've had several clients hear. 20:35 That's great. 20:37 So you'd get the background and look into 20:38 the medical aspect of this... 20:39 And what was their predisposition, 20:41 because oftentimes people have a predisposition 20:44 for depression or other mental health challenges 20:48 and they were not aware of them. 20:49 Something I would check for... 20:51 That's very good, and something 20:52 I would check for is a history of abuse 20:54 because what is find is that often, at this age, 20:56 right to the end of the '20s, sort of the rush of youth 20:59 is kind of passing away and just the chaos increasing 21:04 as if being a young adult and making all these friends 21:06 and maybe find your life partner 21:08 all of that is kind of fading into a routine 21:10 and now you're a mom at home with children 21:13 and you're facing those four walls everyday 21:15 and if there has been a history of abuse particularly, 21:18 if it was the age of her children, 21:20 she is triggered everyday with those small children 21:24 to remember what happened to her when she was small. 21:26 So I would check for those kinds of things 21:28 that could be feeding the problem, we don't know. 21:31 Yeah, that's what I was going to mention was that 21:33 it says that she's overwhelmed by her responsibilities 21:36 but is it actually her responsibilities 21:38 or is there something else going on 21:40 that's causing something so simple as daily tasks 21:44 that are becoming overwhelming. 21:46 I find that a lot of times right around 30s sometimes 21:49 between, like, 30 and 40, people encounter an experience 21:52 that I call, "Hitting the brick wall," 21:54 where, I really think our adrenaline tapers 21:57 off a little as we get older and they have time now 22:01 to get depressed and they sometimes start facing 22:04 the meaninglessness of their life, you know, 22:07 and they it's an excellent time for them actually 22:09 to come to know Jesus in a more intimate way 22:12 but it can be shattering, 22:14 it can feel like everything I thought life was going to be 22:17 is now fragmenting into a thousand pieces. 22:20 That's a good point, I mean, 22:22 do we know what her concept of motherhood was or is 22:25 and maybe she, you know, a lot of people have told me 22:27 they don't feel they've measured up. 22:29 So the pressures that you've mentioned 22:30 and what is it that's going on as she is struggling. 22:33 Along with that I'd tap into her husband 22:35 because he seems to have a hard time understanding 22:39 what's going on with her relating or even supporting 22:42 because of their beautiful home and healthy children. 22:45 So he's saying, "We have all we need, 22:46 what's going on with you?" 22:48 And may be there is a materialism, 22:50 kind of, in the ethos of the family 22:52 that is not satisfying to her anymore 22:54 and maybe he's, you know, he's a mechanical engineer 22:56 might not be the most warm fuzzy guy 22:58 on the face of the earth. 22:59 And he is the one insisting that she come to see one of us. 23:01 Right. 23:02 And I think that's key that lat sentence there. 23:04 She had nested he has insisted 23:06 so maybe she's not even they a voluntary patient here 23:11 may be this is an ultimatum. 23:12 And what do you call that one they have kind of therapy, 23:14 mandated... Mandatory. 23:16 Yeah, mandatory and usually those are the hardest clients. 23:18 Absolutely. 23:19 Because they don't want to be there. 23:21 Going through the motions. 23:22 In addition to all of that that we've been discussing, 23:24 I would also like to see 23:25 what her time management is like and self-care. 23:29 If she is actually taking time out, you know, 23:31 to do what she needs to do replenish everything 23:34 that she's giving out to her family. 23:36 And her social support systems. 23:38 Someone who has just had a child 23:39 and who's home with the children all the time 23:42 can be lacking of what life was like before 23:45 and do does she have people that she can reach out to? 23:48 Are there other mothers with young children 23:50 that she can connect with and tap into, 23:53 some things I'd look at as well. 23:54 I like to bring in two basic streams of healing 23:58 one is improving brain chemistry with the person 24:01 that's dealing with depression and the other is improving 24:04 their thought life so to speak or their spiritual life. 24:07 And so I bring it all on the table 24:10 and I say let's just try to get your mood up 24:12 let's do everything we can and then I would rather bring 24:15 all the therapeutic elements in, get their mood up 24:19 and then they can start not doing them one by one 24:22 unless they want to keep doing them 24:23 but they can let them not be done for a while 24:27 and as soon as they start relapsing 24:28 then they know that that was really helping me. 24:30 Kind of like a behavioral experiment. 24:32 Yeah, kind of, I mean I just try to get their mood up 24:34 because it's awful to carry that everyday. 24:37 You know as we're giving these tools 24:38 and as we're working through our client 24:40 I also like to give the big picture intermittently 24:43 that the big picture is that God can use everything 24:45 that we experience in life 24:47 to get us where he wants us to be 24:48 and this of course is to be Christ like. 24:50 You've experienced your passive depression 24:52 look where you are today. 24:53 I have a passive depression too. 24:55 And the Lord uses all of it to bring us into a better place 24:59 and this is a picture of hope 25:01 that we can always continue to hold up. 25:03 All things work together, thank you so much. 25:05 Absolutely. 25:07 So I'm going to start to rap up now 25:08 as we come a little bit toward close here. 25:11 We're talking about how important lifestyle 25:13 needs to be holistic, we're talking about 25:15 let's look at the exercise, the nutrition, the R & R, 25:18 all aspects of their lives, 25:20 because there are so many causes 25:22 that go in depression. 25:23 You mentioned that burnout was really big, 25:25 we mentioned spiritual depression, remorse for sin, 25:28 sin that's been done against us, 25:30 can we teach people how to forgive 25:33 and how to move on this is very vital. 25:37 What else do we have? 25:39 We have guilt, so we need to find out 25:41 what the root cause is and so between the spiritual 25:46 and the clinical depression they're very similar. 25:48 But when we're talking about spiritual depression, 25:50 you mentioned, is God really in the picture? 25:52 And you mentioned how important surrender is. 25:55 We really need to be able to teach 25:56 what surrender looks like, 25:58 and we always go back to Jesus, don't we? 26:00 And what he went through. 26:02 You mentioned he experienced depression 26:04 and he took it to the cross and that he was alone, 26:09 and that he actually paved the way 26:11 and he conquered all 26:13 so that we would not have to go through this 26:15 without somebody like Jesus going through it first. 26:18 Hope has to be through out this entire process 26:21 and part of that is remembering the good. 26:24 We can't just concentrate on the darkness of their lives, 26:26 we have to journal if we will, 26:30 we have to bring them back to the positive, 26:31 the blessings that are in their life 26:33 and as you mentioned, it is written is very powerful. 26:36 Let's go back to that what have we written down 26:38 that is positive and good in our lives. 26:41 Postpartum depression is very big 26:43 that could last up to year 26:44 perhaps so we have to as you mentioned, Jen, 26:48 we have to rule out a lot of the medical, right. 26:50 So again is, has there been 26:52 a medical checkup with depression? 26:55 Time management, self-care, 26:57 support system that's around us, 26:58 all of these things need to be looked at. 27:00 And then I like the way Jen, how you wrapped up 27:04 that there is the brain health, 27:05 there is the chemical imbalances that are going 27:08 on there is the thought life that we can certainly work with 27:11 and there is a lot going on, 27:13 but we have look to at all of that as we can. 27:16 You know, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit 27:18 the prophet Isaiah said in chapter 63 verse 9, 27:21 "In all their affliction, He was afflicted, 27:25 and the Angel of his presence saved them, 27:27 in his love and in his pity He redeemed them, 27:30 and he bore them and he carried them 27:32 all the days of old." 27:34 Jesus can carry you thorough this difficult time 27:37 as you wrestle with depression 27:39 or the person you love is wrestling with depression 27:41 and he can bring you up out of a horrible pit, 27:44 as the Psalm has said 27:47 and he can set your feet upon a rock 27:49 and establish your goings have faith in him, 27:52 he wants you to have joy abundant, 27:54 please join us for the next program 27:56 'A Multitude of Counselors.' |
Revised 2016-12-01