Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170032S
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00:25 Welcome to a Multitude of Counselors,
00:28 this is part two of the man who almost never slept, 00:31 our guest is Shawn Boonstra and he is the director and 00:36 principle speaker and communicator of 00:38 The Voice of Prophecy, I'm sorry I didn't say that in the last 00:42 segment and I forgot to introduce my lustrous panel 00:46 of counselors as well who pretty much you know, pry Shawn open. 00:51 They're the squirm makers, they make me squirm. 00:54 We're going to continue the squirming process but let me 00:55 introduce my friends here, this is Nichole Parker, 00:57 she is a Biblical Counselor from Tennessee, 00:59 And Ivishi Edward, Dr. Ivishi Edwards from Tennessee 01:03 soon to move to Georgia. 01:04 This is Shelley Wiggins a professional counselor from 01:07 Michigan, and we have the the wonderful challenge today of 01:09 helping Shawn Boonstra with his sleep issues 01:12 but as we sort of probe what was going on with the 01:16 sleeplessness, we realized that there was an element of 01:19 perfectionist anxiety and perfectionism in Shaw 01:22 and we are still kind of wondering if that's leading 01:25 to the sleeplessness or if maybe there is just a base- 01:29 line anxiety and maybe a baseline...and he says no. 01:31 Well, no, it certainly was there in the beginning. 01:33 Okay. Anxiety seems like such a...Pathological? 01:39 Word, other than... Anxiety makes it sound like 01:43 I'm not nail biting and sweating. 01:45 Okay. Is it a...Is it... Maybe it qualifies as anxiety 01:48 anyway. I'm just...My brain is active. 01:51 Yeah a very active brain but also fearful I would say 01:55 of things not being as good as you want them to be, 01:58 and that's what we broke down so that you compartmentalized 02:01 and have full confidence that you are going to be in heaven 02:04 with Jesus. Oh yeah! No spiritual fear but you've 02:07 God fear that you will do your best and so you this 02:11 perfectionism at work in that arena. 02:14 In some areas I...for example I hold large city evangelistic 02:18 campaigns and those are massive undertakings, they are 20-hour 02:22 days they're...and I noticed some years ago, 02:27 I stopped worrying about them, don't worry we've had a 02:30 hundred of them, they all went well, it's going to be fine 02:32 God's running this show. Okay, so that's good. 02:35 So, have I learned that yet, yeah, to some extent... 02:38 Between shows, we were talking a little bit, 02:41 am I better than I used to be? Yeah, I don't worry 02:44 like I used to. And you also when you are awake at night 02:48 which you still are a lot, you don't ruminate on 02:50 things that you used to ruminate on and worry about, true? 02:54 True! I think it's definitely better than it was say 10... 02:58 My wife will tell you, she thinks it's just middle-age 03:01 coming around and I'm just mellower, she said I like you. 03:05 I like you like this, you are mellower than you used to be. 03:07 Yeah, it could be related to testosterone levels, 03:10 I don't want to get too personal here but lower testosterone will 03:13 mellow a guy out. But I have a question for you. 03:15 We've been talking about your willingness level to experiment.. 03:19 I know and it's driving me nuts. 03:21 Not being a perfectionist for instance we suggested 03:24 leaving a typo in a tweed and you just about had a meltdown 03:26 right in the chair when I suggested that. Yeah! 03:28 Yes, I crawled under the table and wept a little. 03:32 I know, so I want to ask you something. 03:34 If you knew that by setting the example of being imperfect 03:40 and being okay with it, you could help another person 03:43 who was really struggling and whose protectionism 03:46 was really hurting them, would you do it for that reason? 03:49 That's a good question. I don't know that I know the answer. 03:53 I talk a pretty good game with other people who are 03:55 wrestling with it telling them just let it go, 03:57 don't you trust God, I talk a really good game. 03:59 Well, what if they aren't going to accept your words or 04:01 if they want to see your example? 04:02 Yeah! Would you be willing to experiment, 04:05 would you be willing to take one for the team? 04:07 and experiment with maybe with the showing other people, doing 04:12 it for altruistic reasons, I want this person... 04:14 For them, for me, it's going to make me a great writer/ 04:17 evangelist but for them it's going to make them... 04:19 You know what I find curious? and I've done some thinking 04:22 in some areas, I do do that, I don't mind making mistakes 04:27 in public evangelism, I don't care if I misstate something 04:29 I don't care if I make a mistake in a recording, I don't... 04:33 If I make a mistake in a TV show, I don't let them stop, 04:36 don't stop it, don't go back I made a mistake. 04:39 So, in some areas, I'm perfectly fine with that, I am very 04:42 very comfortable in my skin, I like being who I am 04:44 and I don't care that I mess up. 04:46 It's in the recovery. 04:48 I admit it to the audience up front, you know I mess up 04:51 five times a day, here's what... I'll tell them a story from my 04:53 day so the audience understands that even though I am up front 04:56 I'm not perfect. 04:57 So you are familiar with the process of humanizing... 05:00 So I do that and so in some areas I am perfectly fine with 05:02 that. I don't mind being imperfect, I really don't 05:07 but in other areas is it done? It seems like... 05:10 Is it done, bothers me more than 05:16 am I perfect? 05:17 Okay! Alright! 05:19 So Shawn, you mentioned that you have racing thoughts 05:22 at night, you can't shut your brain down. Oh Yeah. 05:23 No, That's right. Okay, how do you shut your computer down? 05:26 I close the lid so that it's really easy to open again at 05:29 two a.m. Like a force? See you don't shut down... 05:34 shut it down. I have never turned my laptop off, ever. 05:37 Okay, so your laptop works like your brain. 05:39 Oh yeah, it's on all the time. 05:41 Would you be willing to hear a few suggestions? Yeah, let's go, 05:43 let's go. So you have a screen, that's your brain. 05:46 Yep. And all these little icons are popped up. Okay, and there's 05:50 these little boxes you know what they look like. Yep! 05:52 you click on them, and it shuts them down, they are going into 05:55 their appropriate files...If you wanted to do that on paper 06:00 first, we can show you how to do that and then you actually 06:05 shut it down. Paper makes sense. 06:06 Cause, I've told myself, okay that's done till tomorrow 06:08 that's done till tomorrow, put it away, put it away, 06:10 put it away. Two minutes later it popped back up. 06:15 There's something about the the hand will write what the mouth 06:19 can't say or whatnot. So if you get physically up out of bed 06:23 and go to a different room and that's important 06:25 and do this exercise and then go back to your room... 06:30 You got up and what did you do? You go... 06:31 You have to leave your space of sleep. Uh-huh. 06:34 So that...And go do the exercise 06:36 do this exercise outside of your sacred space because 06:41 the bed is for two things and I'm not going to what all those 06:45 two things are. But if you take care of...Shawn! Yeah. 06:50 Um, we have a plane waiting for you. Yes 'm. Okay. 06:55 Jean's already packed your bags. 06:57 If you want change if you want change, we can help you. 07:01 Yeah! No! Seriously, if this works, if you leave 07:04 where you are sleeping and go to a different room, 07:06 and take care of what's on your mind...If it's writing lists 07:10 If it's. That I've learned... Bullet points, whatever you 07:14 got to do. Write it down so it's okay to leave it behind because 07:17 tomorrow the list is there. 07:18 It will be there on the kitchen table then you go back to 07:20 bed where it's supposed to be for your frame to sleep. 07:23 That does make sense, I do not leave the bed, 07:26 I just deal with it there, I have a notepad on the 07:28 nightstand. All sleep hygiene protocols will tell you to 07:31 leave your space for sleeping. I know. 07:32 Because you will develop an association with your place 07:34 of sleep between anxiety and trouble and problems 07:37 and your place of sleep. that does make some good sense 07:40 it makes a lot of sense. I am not good at leaving. 07:42 Because it makes sense. Yes. Now here it comes, here it comes. 07:46 Here it comes. Did you know she is going to preach now? 07:48 Is it possible that we could have buy-in? 07:51 Yeah! It makes sense, I am then willing to... 07:54 Oh yeah, I'm willing to do that. 07:55 I'm willing to do...Okay sign the contract. Right there. 07:59 It's a treatment plan, Shawn. Yeah. No, I am willing 08:03 I am willing, that's an easy change to make. 08:06 Can you verbalize what it is that you are willing to do? 08:08 I'm willing to leave the bed if I'm not sleeping and go 08:13 somewhere else to deal with things and then come back 08:16 just for sleep. 08:17 Team, did you hear that? 08:18 - Tried everything and that's basic. Well, I have done, 08:21 Okay, let me explain what's has happened in the past 08:23 when I've done that. Okay! 08:24 I didn't promise to be an easy nut to crack. 08:26 But what happens is I get interested in the world 08:29 around me when I leave the bedroom and then I'm up 08:31 all night. Squirrel. And I'm up all night. 08:33 Oh my goodness, look at this, there's a book of philosophy 08:35 that I haven't read yet and I bought it six months ago 08:38 and I'll just thumb through it for a minute over here in the 08:40 living room and the next thing you know, it's 4:00. 08:43 Then we have a very specific place that you are allowed to 08:46 go to where it doesn't have a bunch of books. 08:48 The corner, I spent my whole youth there. 08:50 Not the corner, we have to... we'll call it something else 08:54 but you can only go to a very specific place that doesn't 08:56 have all the distractions around it. Yeah! Okay, so sign the 09:00 contract? Oh, okay. There's nothing on there. 09:04 We're going to write your treatment plan and send it to 09:06 After I sign it, alright, no, that does make sense. 09:11 where do you go that's not interesting? 09:13 One of the afflictions I have I think, 09:15 I don't know if it's an affliction or not...Curiosity! 09:17 Everything is interesting, everything is interesting. 09:20 I'll just go out and stand in the backyard 09:22 and I think I'll go in the back yard, I'll clear my thoughts 09:25 there and my goodness there is a moth that I have never seen 09:27 before and it's like where did that come from? 09:29 And I wonder if I Google it if I could figure out where 09:31 that...Everything... I think Google and you are 09:34 like a bad combination, like... It is a bad combination. 09:36 You can't just look one thing up. Exactly. 09:40 But everything's interesting so where do you go that isn't 09:45 interesting? Yeah. Everything is interesting. 09:48 What have you tried in the past to (shut your brain down)? 09:50 Some people rely on anti-anxiety meds, sleep meds, Melatonin, 09:55 what have you tried? This is probably a bad idea 09:58 you're gonna recoil in horror but one thing, I do two things, 10:00 white noise number one. There's something about 10:02 white noise that helps your brain drift and if I can get my brain 10:05 to drift...I don't know what that is, what is white noise? 10:06 White noise is like the static on your television. 10:10 Or you can even get white noise apps on your iPhone... 10:12 Yeah I've got an electric fan on my I iPad, that I just 10:15 turn on a fan. A fan is white noise 10:17 and that somehow gets your brain to drift. 10:19 The other thing I do is I stick my iPhone under my pillow. 10:22 Nowadays with, you know, tune in to radio and apps 10:25 I can listen to any radio station in the world 10:27 3ABN, I can listen to 3ABN. I need somebody to talk. 10:30 In the old days, I used to go down and watch the preacher 10:33 he was on at two a.m. on the TV and turn it really low. 10:36 You know, there's really actually, sleep aids 10:39 that are recordings of women speaking and they're usually 10:42 like in a librarian kind of context and their speaking 10:45 in a way that you can't really hear what they are saying 10:46 but going like gibberish. Yeah. And just the con... 10:49 That's what I am looking for and I find that suddenly 10:51 I'm trying...and if I turn it down low enough 10:53 now I have to listen and every- thing else fades into the 10:56 background but that interaction and I don't want to use the word 11:01 hypnosis because I'm not a fan of that whole, 11:03 but there's something about... The objectionable thing about 11:05 hypnosis is mind control, one mind...but this is not 11:08 This is calming. This is calming. This is calming. And that helps 11:11 you. Oh yeah, absolutely. And then you wake up at 11:13 two in the morning and change the channel, Yeah! 11:16 So I want to go back to your fear though, I think that was 11:18 really fertile ground and your perfectionism. Watch me. 11:21 I'm not going to let go of that either...No, no. 11:24 I really think that you would be able to bless... 11:27 I mean you are blessing thousands maybe millions 11:30 of people with your ministry and it's awesome but I really 11:33 think that you could bless more people if you had a 11:34 testimony of overcoming perfectionism. 11:37 Because perfectionism does, I mean you're such a jolly 11:40 soul, you laugh your way through it and then you admit 11:42 you know how rowdy...you know how some people it is their 11:44 own doing so can we probe a little deeper into the 11:47 perfectionism. Yeah, perfectionism is a word that 11:50 because I probably squirm with that because in a religious 11:51 context that means something different, and I don't live 11:54 in that world, I don't live in the world of religious 11:56 perfectionism. But so many people do...But the principles 11:59 and the habits carry over for many people 12:02 maybe now you've successfully compartmentalized. 12:03 Oh, I totally have, yeah but. I mean Shawn the sinless... 12:07 Alright, tell me in a sentence what your home of origin 12:11 upbringing, training said to you about doing well at things? 12:17 and also what it said about not doing well? 12:20 Immigrant parents, I thought about this in the wee hours 12:25 when you are lying awake and what's doing this to you? 12:27 And so, Immigrant parents, father who comes at 18 with 12:32 45 dollars and you've got to make it, so there's probably 12:35 if you've got to make it. 12:37 And I feel responsible for my family, so I think 12:42 I got to make it, how am I going to support my wife 12:46 if we retire one day? How am I going to... 12:48 Gotta make it was probably a huge part of my upbringing 12:54 and working hard...Well, wait a minute, there's a weird 12:56 association there because you being perfect in all your tweets 13:00 is not going to have any impact at all...No, I know. 13:02 as to whether you can support your family or not. 13:03 What a...The English language is how I make my living. 13:08 No, but you being imperfect is not going to hurt you 13:11 you're still going to be able to support your family so 13:13 I don't accept that. Can you... Yeah, okay. 13:14 Yeah, try again. Laughter. I don't know. 13:19 I definitely grew up in an atmosphere of you got to make it 13:23 and do...and probably grew up Dutch/Calvinist background which 13:26 which is a huge work ethic. Work is an act of worship 13:31 you do your very best, not because not for ego's sake 13:35 or for pride's sake but because that's how you honor God. 13:39 Uh-hum. That is an element there as well. 13:41 Okay, so there's a link. Yeah. Oh yeah, this is how you 13:46 get one lifetime and your life is a testimony to God's 13:50 goodness. That would have to be subconscious if I'm doing that 13:54 because I don't start out my day thinking... 13:57 Right. Obviously something that's driving this is 14:00 subconscious, you're not choosing to not be able to sleep. 14:03 I do think there is something significant going on and like 14:06 Jen mentioned anxiety, and I know you don't really like 14:09 that word. But if you think of it as when a person's 14:13 under pressure or has fear, they tend to go to one or the 14:18 other end of a spectrum so if their tendency is when they 14:22 overwhelmed or under pressure to become depressed. 14:25 then it's kind of like if you are in a car and you're 14:28 experiencing pressure or intensity of some kind 14:32 the depressed person crawls in the back seat and covers 14:35 himself with a gray blanket and huddles there 14:37 because they are overwhelmed they can't fix it. Right. 14:40 I tend to, be give me the wheel. The opposite exactly. 14:43 The opposite reaction is I think I've got this 14:46 and you tighten your grip on the wheel and you take over 14:50 that's exactly what I think is driving what is going on 14:54 here but there are things that you're able to put your 14:57 put yourself in the passengers seat and relax on. 15:00 So the question is that why is it that what happens 15:02 before you go to sleep in the driver's seat clutching the 15:07 steering wheel category and how could you move it to 15:10 being able to be in the passengers' seat. Good question. 15:12 If there's some avoidance, what would happen if you 15:15 didn't do your best? Put it in a sentence right from your gut? 15:18 Your upbringing. Really Simple, I would know I didn't do my best. 15:21 And that would...What would happen? If you knew. 15:25 What would that mean about you? 15:27 I actually derive joy from knowing I did my best 15:31 and not doing my best would be...You are tough. 15:33 I know, I know, but I am being honest, I'm trying to be 15:36 transparent. Alright, alright. I'm trying... 15:37 The reason I've objected to the word anxiety is I don't want 15:39 people to think there is a cold sweat or that there's a... 15:42 There's not, it's just a fact of...Symptomology of the 15:45 normal anxiety features. No! I don't have panic attacks 15:47 I don't have cold sweats, I don't get the knot in my stomach, 15:51 maybe once in a blue moon, who doesn't once in a blue moon? 15:55 It's I can't turn it off, it's active, it's I can't. 15:59 It's a racing thought. It's racing thoughts 16:00 It's in DNA here, I don't think it's all you being damaged 16:04 from childhood or anything like that...I think there's... 16:06 No, I had a really good child- hood, let me just say 16:08 Mom and Dad watched 3ABN it was really great. Laughter. 16:10 Seriously! No, no, I had a good childhood. Did you? 16:14 Yeah, sure I did. You were happy? Oh yeah! 16:16 Well adjusted? I don't know, you know me, how well-adjusted 16:19 am I? Do you have children? Yeah, I do. 16:21 How does this impact your parenting and your relationship 16:25 with them? That's a really good question. 16:27 Ah, I tend to demand quite a bit. Our motto in our house 16:34 is work first, play later. Okay, I could have actually 16:37 verbalized that to you but I wanted to ask, 16:39 I want to make sure you are aware that there might be 16:43 some transference but to how you expect... Oh yeah... 16:46 I think about that a lot. What do you think about that? 16:49 I try to back off a bit, I try to say it's okay. 16:52 Now the other component there is of course my kids have 16:55 grown up in a fishbowl so I've deliberately tried to not 16:59 grown up in a fishbowl. Um-hum! So I've deliberately tried to 17:01 On some things I demand things, you know what, you didn't need 17:02 to get that grade. Yeah. You didn't need to get that grade... 17:06 you can do better. 17:07 Give them permission for a few typo's. Oh yeah. 17:10 Good. My kids miss far less than I do. 17:13 Good! I do give permission for that. You have two daughters 17:16 right? Two daughters, that's right? And that's it? 17:18 That's right. Okay. And so I'm aware of evening... 17:22 Have they ever said to you... I am aware of every young 17:25 man in the Continental United States. 17:27 I hear where they are. Have you modified your views on 17:29 gun control? So have they ever told you, you know Dad 17:34 can you just let go or are we just feel like we're going 17:36 to make a mistake and we're so worried? 17:38 Have they conveyed any of that to you? 17:40 Once in a while, once in a while. 17:42 Not very often and I'm quite willing, I'm quite willing 17:47 to take it if it is sincere and I'm not willing to take it 17:51 as an excuse. So if a child says, well maybe that's all 17:54 I'm capable of, no, no, not a chance. 17:58 Do I demand a Road Scholar? No. Nah, I don't. 18:03 But I am cognizant of the fact that I'm highly driven 18:07 that I might expect that of people who aren't put in 18:11 too much pressure on them, I do think about that. 18:13 Has the drivenness ever challenged bonding? 18:17 Cause there's kind of a tension between relationship 18:22 and task orientation. People tend to be on a spectrum 18:25 somewhere so they may be very task achievement oriented 18:27 or some people may be more relationally oriented. 18:30 Sometimes those things come to a sword's point so if you 18:32 ever noticed in your relationship for instance 18:33 with your kids that the drivenness factor of 18:36 your whole family, cause you are all like...Yeah, we're all... 18:38 high achievers. Yeah, we're all like we're young... 18:39 So, has that ever gotten in the way of bonding? 18:41 No, we're really close. Are you? 18:43 I have to say and I thank God for that every day 18:46 I um, yeah. Do we ever have moments of tension? 18:50 I got teenage kids, sure we do. 18:52 Yeah, I think don't give me that. It's normal. 18:53 Don't give me that. No that's fine. Don't give who what? 18:56 Don't give me that excuse. Like give me a break. 18:58 You say that to your kids? Oh yeah. 19:00 But I, we're close, we're closer...When I grew up, 19:06 oh, I had a good family growing up but we weren't... 19:09 I wouldn't describe us as close as my family is now. 19:14 And so, I'm still daddy, and I enjoyed that moment by the 19:18 way Jean got demoted to Mom. 19:19 Laughter! I'm still daddy but... What do you mean she got demoted? 19:24 Oh, the kids are mommy, mommy, mommy and she became mom 19:27 and I'm still daddy. How do you find time for family and 19:32 relationship? It's not easy, it's true our life has been 19:35 atypical in that in our children's youngest years 19:40 we were on the road 220-230 days a year. 19:43 With the whole family, sometimes. 19:45 And then we decided that takes too much of a toll on our 19:48 children. A different time Zone every other day and they're 19:51 little and so...and then it was me on the road quite a bit 19:55 because we had to balance, how much time do we take together 19:59 and how much is this actually damaging? 20:00 You know they don't have a life, they don't have friends, 20:02 they don't have and that wasn't easy. 20:04 Are we close, yeah, my daughter called me last night, 20:08 hey Dad I'm thinking about this college, what do you think? 20:11 This happens all the time, we've been very open 20:13 we talk about everything, we talk about... 20:15 we talk about everything. 20:17 We talk about everything and my kids are far more open than 20:19 I would have been as a child, you know the Dutch and German 20:23 don't talk about certain... They're not talkers... 20:25 Yeah, they don't share emotions and...No, I don't share emotions 20:27 unless I have to. You don't? You've been sharing for the last 20:30 hour Shawn. Yeah, I know, I know. 20:31 You do a really good job at it too. Yes. Yeah, right. 20:34 Very good. I get a gold star for being...You do get a gold star. 20:37 It took courage to stand before this tribe...Laughter! 20:42 Well, we're not done with you yet, we have a few more 20:44 Oh! I want to take Jen's question that she's asked you 20:47 like three times...And I've avoided. Yeah, okay! 20:51 I'm just going to say it one more time. 20:52 If you weren't ready or you didn't 20:56 quite make it cause you said your internal drivennesses is 21:00 I got to make it. Um hum. If you didn't, what would happen? 21:07 I would know and that's the bottom line, that's it. 21:10 I would know. You, over and over again appear as your own 21:14 taskmaster, I'm not going to say tyrant but taskmaster. 21:18 I do need somebody to drive me, I never have. Yeah, Yeah. 21:20 I never have. You would know that you didn't make it but... 21:23 And then what? What would happen? 21:27 What would be so bad? 21:28 I would know, I think that's it, that's the bottom line. 21:30 Could you accept yourself if you didn't do your best? 21:33 I don't know. It would be worth experimenting with. 21:37 Would your wife and your girls still love you? Oh yeah, I hope 21:40 so... Would Jesus still love you? Of course. 21:43 Isn't that the gospel? It is. Would Shawn still love Shawn? 21:48 Oh yeah. Oh yeah, that's not... I don't know how much I love 21:52 myself. Laughter. I don't know how much I love myself. 21:55 Would you respect yourself even if you...Oh yeah, oh yeah. 21:57 I don't think that's a... I have messed up colossally... 22:01 on occasion and it's... I can roll with it. 22:03 Can you tell us about a time you messed up? 22:04 Laughter. There's not that many come to think of it. 22:10 Oh yeah, I have gone in, I have gone in say for 22:15 a presentation where I thought I can wing that and at the end 22:19 I A, knew I didn't wing it, B, it didn't obtain the desired 22:24 effect from that room. What do you mean you didn't wing it? 22:26 I didn't wing it because I didn't successfully wing it. 22:29 I really didn't wing it... C versus an A. 22:32 Yeah, you bet. Where I walked in I thought I'd come in 22:33 and say, no problem, I've done this a hundred times before 22:37 and bam, it fell apart on me and then I wished, 22:41 oh, I wished, ah I should have spent a little more time on that. 22:44 One of the, one of them, there is a level of, if I get a 22:50 phone call, hey, could you come and speak? 22:51 My first thought is, boy do I have time to get ready for that? 22:55 Really? Always! You're really really into being prepared. 22:58 Yes! Very important to you. Yes! It looks natural 23:02 if you are prepared. That's right. It's a blessing 23:05 and a curse thing, it's just finding that balance point. 23:08 I mean perfectionism can be a curse but with balance 23:13 and I think what Jen is trying to propose and we're all 23:15 trying to propose is would you take the suggestion 23:20 of doing an experiment of just practicing with some intentional 23:26 down time or intentional typos' however, they look for you. 23:30 They don't have to be on Twitter. I'll be watching 23:32 Twitter. No, there's not going to be a typo. Um, 23:35 I mean whatever that looks like, even if it's just with when 23:39 you guys have family night, just permission for being human. 23:44 Cause, that's I think our message we're wanting to 23:47 out there is we're all really just human trying to get ready 23:51 for Jesus to return. Right? Yeah, absolutely. 23:54 I don't mind being human. Yeah, it's not that he's 23:57 not human, he's human, it's the doing the best he can do 24:01 in usually tasks that have to do with communication. 24:04 Here's another little piece of it, maybe we are out of time 24:07 but I don't know. but I'm an off the charts introvert by 24:10 nature and I live in an extroverted world and I live 24:13 in an extroverted career and so for me to walk in front of 24:18 2,000 people and speak takes everything I've got to... 24:21 So, there's an element there in hyper-preparation is that 24:25 for me to do that is completely unnatural. 24:27 I'm terrified of public speaking. So you overcompensate. 24:30 Oh yeah. This is it, this is why the pop-ups are so big 24:34 at night. Yeah. Because it's your subconscious is sorting things 24:39 out and putting things in files, it's what you do as an introvert. 24:44 Yeah, well I'm off the charts I'm shy, I don't like 24:47 social gatherings, I can't stand potluck because 24:51 it's like...But, but let me quickly insert this and that is 24:55 that Shawn told me off the camera that at the end of all 24:59 his lectures he stays until the last person has been ministered 25:04 to which I want to give you not 10 but 20 stars for that 25:07 because so many public speakers they finish their job, 25:10 they walk off and they won't associate, it's almost like 25:13 they think they are on another level that you come and you 25:15 minister to people and you will not leave, you said until... 25:18 I mean there are some exceptions. 25:20 The introvert in me gets exhausted, some nights I go, 25:23 I've had enough I'm going to go. But barring exhaustion 25:25 Yeah, Yeah, I do it but I don't get upfront because I enjoy it. 25:28 I don't enjoy it. Ummu. I get upfront because those 25:31 people are in the same boat I was once in and they need some 25:33 help. And I remember when you first came on the scene you were 25:36 Henry Firerobbins understudy. Yeah. Is that the right word? 25:41 I suppose so. And you were kind of working with him from 25:43 Canada and then you took over It Is Written initially 25:47 and I remember that and I remember when you first 25:49 started speaking at camp meetings and a friend of mine 25:51 called me and said this new guy Shawn Boonstra is a really 25:53 good speaker and he's really friendly. 25:55 He talks to people afterward and he's just really like 25:59 cordial and affable and... Because that meant a lot to us 26:02 cause want to know that the people... 26:04 You know, we are all women and we tend not to get the spots 26:06 up there, it tends to be men and we want to know that those 26:08 men are caring people that are willing to come down to our level 26:13 so to speak. So, I want to say that means a lot to me that 26:15 you are that way. I'm glad that's blessing people. Yeah. 26:17 And you've always been very friendly to me personally 26:19 and I've never felt like he thinks he is just all that 26:21 and he's untouchable. I know I'm not all that. 26:24 Shawn, you've mentioned a couple of things that work 26:27 for you for the chronic struggler of insomnia out there 26:32 that maybe travels, I mean you travel time zones... 26:34 Ahh yeah. You don't just travel. What works the best for you 26:37 in those situations? In about one minute or less. 26:39 White noise, something to distract me. 26:42 I need something to distract me and if it is visual... 26:44 If it is reading, forget it I'm going to get engaged. 26:46 It's got to be audible, lights out, radio, talk radio, 26:50 and the more boring, the better. And how do you feel about it 26:53 when people write you with remedies and different 26:55 treatments for insomnia when you admit your health problems. 26:58 Sometimes I laugh about it you know please don't. Yeah. 27:00 Please don't write, please don't write, yes, I've tried... 27:03 You've tried everything, I've been to so many clinics. 27:06 You've done the gamut, I've done the sleep clinic 27:08 and they told me you just don't sleep. 27:10 Laughter! Oh, thanks. You're hopeless. 27:13 No, I tried it all, the Valerian, the Melatonin, 27:17 The melatonin gives you nightmares. 27:19 Really! Oh yeah! Not me! 27:20 That's unique to you. But you've tried you think 27:26 just about everything and you appreciate the thought but 27:28 don't bother. Is that what... Yeah, please don't. 27:30 Please don't, I, uh... Alright. We are so grateful that 27:35 you've joined us for this amazing program on... 27:38 about the man who almost never slept, he's getting a whopping 27:41 three to four hours every night these days, 27:44 we're so thankful for that it could be worse. 27:46 But we really plumbed the depths of Shawn Boonstra's psyche 27:50 and it's been a wild ride. Thank you for joining us 27:53 and may you be blessed. May you sleep well tonight? 27:56 because He gives His beloved sleep. |
Revised 2024-04-25