Multitude of Counselors

The Man Who (Almost) Never Slept, Part 2 of 2

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript



Series Code: MOC

Program Code: MOC170032S

00:25 Welcome to a Multitude of Counselors,
00:28 this is part two of the man who almost never slept,
00:31 our guest is Shawn Boonstra and he is the director and
00:36 principle speaker and communicator of
00:38 The Voice of Prophecy, I'm sorry I didn't say that in the last
00:42 segment and I forgot to introduce my lustrous panel
00:46 of counselors as well who pretty much you know, pry Shawn open.
00:51 They're the squirm makers, they make me squirm.
00:54 We're going to continue the squirming process but let me
00:55 introduce my friends here, this is Nichole Parker,
00:57 she is a Biblical Counselor from Tennessee,
00:59 And Ivishi Edward, Dr. Ivishi Edwards from Tennessee
01:03 soon to move to Georgia.
01:04 This is Shelley Wiggins a professional counselor from
01:07 Michigan, and we have the the wonderful challenge today of
01:09 helping Shawn Boonstra with his sleep issues
01:12 but as we sort of probe what was going on with the
01:16 sleeplessness, we realized that there was an element of
01:19 perfectionist anxiety and perfectionism in Shaw
01:22 and we are still kind of wondering if that's leading
01:25 to the sleeplessness or if maybe there is just a base-
01:29 line anxiety and maybe a baseline...and he says no.
01:31 Well, no, it certainly was there in the beginning.
01:33 Okay. Anxiety seems like such a...Pathological?
01:39 Word, other than... Anxiety makes it sound like
01:43 I'm not nail biting and sweating.
01:45 Okay. Is it a...Is it... Maybe it qualifies as anxiety
01:48 anyway. I'm just...My brain is active.
01:51 Yeah a very active brain but also fearful I would say
01:55 of things not being as good as you want them to be,
01:58 and that's what we broke down so that you compartmentalized
02:01 and have full confidence that you are going to be in heaven
02:04 with Jesus. Oh yeah! No spiritual fear but you've
02:07 God fear that you will do your best and so you this
02:11 perfectionism at work in that arena.
02:14 In some areas I...for example I hold large city evangelistic
02:18 campaigns and those are massive undertakings, they are 20-hour
02:22 days they're...and I noticed some years ago,
02:27 I stopped worrying about them, don't worry we've had a
02:30 hundred of them, they all went well, it's going to be fine
02:32 God's running this show. Okay, so that's good.
02:35 So, have I learned that yet, yeah, to some extent...
02:38 Between shows, we were talking a little bit,
02:41 am I better than I used to be? Yeah, I don't worry
02:44 like I used to. And you also when you are awake at night
02:48 which you still are a lot, you don't ruminate on
02:50 things that you used to ruminate on and worry about, true?
02:54 True! I think it's definitely better than it was say 10...
02:58 My wife will tell you, she thinks it's just middle-age
03:01 coming around and I'm just mellower, she said I like you.
03:05 I like you like this, you are mellower than you used to be.
03:07 Yeah, it could be related to testosterone levels,
03:10 I don't want to get too personal here but lower testosterone will
03:13 mellow a guy out. But I have a question for you.
03:15 We've been talking about your willingness level to experiment..
03:19 I know and it's driving me nuts.
03:21 Not being a perfectionist for instance we suggested
03:24 leaving a typo in a tweed and you just about had a meltdown
03:26 right in the chair when I suggested that. Yeah!
03:28 Yes, I crawled under the table and wept a little.
03:32 I know, so I want to ask you something.
03:34 If you knew that by setting the example of being imperfect
03:40 and being okay with it, you could help another person
03:43 who was really struggling and whose protectionism
03:46 was really hurting them, would you do it for that reason?
03:49 That's a good question. I don't know that I know the answer.
03:53 I talk a pretty good game with other people who are
03:55 wrestling with it telling them just let it go,
03:57 don't you trust God, I talk a really good game.
03:59 Well, what if they aren't going to accept your words or
04:01 if they want to see your example?
04:02 Yeah! Would you be willing to experiment,
04:05 would you be willing to take one for the team?
04:07 and experiment with maybe with the showing other people, doing
04:12 it for altruistic reasons, I want this person...
04:14 For them, for me, it's going to make me a great writer/
04:17 evangelist but for them it's going to make them...
04:19 You know what I find curious? and I've done some thinking
04:22 in some areas, I do do that, I don't mind making mistakes
04:27 in public evangelism, I don't care if I misstate something
04:29 I don't care if I make a mistake in a recording, I don't...
04:33 If I make a mistake in a TV show, I don't let them stop,
04:36 don't stop it, don't go back I made a mistake.
04:39 So, in some areas, I'm perfectly fine with that, I am very
04:42 very comfortable in my skin, I like being who I am
04:44 and I don't care that I mess up.
04:46 It's in the recovery.
04:48 I admit it to the audience up front, you know I mess up
04:51 five times a day, here's what... I'll tell them a story from my
04:53 day so the audience understands that even though I am up front
04:56 I'm not perfect.
04:57 So you are familiar with the process of humanizing...
05:00 So I do that and so in some areas I am perfectly fine with
05:02 that. I don't mind being imperfect, I really don't
05:07 but in other areas is it done? It seems like...
05:10 Is it done, bothers me more than
05:16 am I perfect?
05:17 Okay! Alright!
05:19 So Shawn, you mentioned that you have racing thoughts
05:22 at night, you can't shut your brain down. Oh Yeah.
05:23 No, That's right. Okay, how do you shut your computer down?
05:26 I close the lid so that it's really easy to open again at
05:29 two a.m. Like a force? See you don't shut down...
05:34 shut it down. I have never turned my laptop off, ever.
05:37 Okay, so your laptop works like your brain.
05:39 Oh yeah, it's on all the time.
05:41 Would you be willing to hear a few suggestions? Yeah, let's go,
05:43 let's go. So you have a screen, that's your brain.
05:46 Yep. And all these little icons are popped up. Okay, and there's
05:50 these little boxes you know what they look like. Yep!
05:52 you click on them, and it shuts them down, they are going into
05:55 their appropriate files...If you wanted to do that on paper
06:00 first, we can show you how to do that and then you actually
06:05 shut it down. Paper makes sense.
06:06 Cause, I've told myself, okay that's done till tomorrow
06:08 that's done till tomorrow, put it away, put it away,
06:10 put it away. Two minutes later it popped back up.
06:15 There's something about the the hand will write what the mouth
06:19 can't say or whatnot. So if you get physically up out of bed
06:23 and go to a different room and that's important
06:25 and do this exercise and then go back to your room...
06:30 You got up and what did you do? You go...
06:31 You have to leave your space of sleep. Uh-huh.
06:34 So that...And go do the exercise
06:36 do this exercise outside of your sacred space because
06:41 the bed is for two things and I'm not going to what all those
06:45 two things are. But if you take care of...Shawn! Yeah.
06:50 Um, we have a plane waiting for you. Yes 'm. Okay.
06:55 Jean's already packed your bags.
06:57 If you want change if you want change, we can help you.
07:01 Yeah! No! Seriously, if this works, if you leave
07:04 where you are sleeping and go to a different room,
07:06 and take care of what's on your mind...If it's writing lists
07:10 If it's. That I've learned... Bullet points, whatever you
07:14 got to do. Write it down so it's okay to leave it behind because
07:17 tomorrow the list is there.
07:18 It will be there on the kitchen table then you go back to
07:20 bed where it's supposed to be for your frame to sleep.
07:23 That does make sense, I do not leave the bed,
07:26 I just deal with it there, I have a notepad on the
07:28 nightstand. All sleep hygiene protocols will tell you to
07:31 leave your space for sleeping. I know.
07:32 Because you will develop an association with your place
07:34 of sleep between anxiety and trouble and problems
07:37 and your place of sleep. that does make some good sense
07:40 it makes a lot of sense. I am not good at leaving.
07:42 Because it makes sense. Yes. Now here it comes, here it comes.
07:46 Here it comes. Did you know she is going to preach now?
07:48 Is it possible that we could have buy-in?
07:51 Yeah! It makes sense, I am then willing to...
07:54 Oh yeah, I'm willing to do that.
07:55 I'm willing to do...Okay sign the contract. Right there.
07:59 It's a treatment plan, Shawn. Yeah. No, I am willing
08:03 I am willing, that's an easy change to make.
08:06 Can you verbalize what it is that you are willing to do?
08:08 I'm willing to leave the bed if I'm not sleeping and go
08:13 somewhere else to deal with things and then come back
08:16 just for sleep.
08:17 Team, did you hear that?
08:18 - Tried everything and that's basic. Well, I have done,
08:21 Okay, let me explain what's has happened in the past
08:23 when I've done that. Okay!
08:24 I didn't promise to be an easy nut to crack.
08:26 But what happens is I get interested in the world
08:29 around me when I leave the bedroom and then I'm up
08:31 all night. Squirrel. And I'm up all night.
08:33 Oh my goodness, look at this, there's a book of philosophy
08:35 that I haven't read yet and I bought it six months ago
08:38 and I'll just thumb through it for a minute over here in the
08:40 living room and the next thing you know, it's 4:00.
08:43 Then we have a very specific place that you are allowed to
08:46 go to where it doesn't have a bunch of books.
08:48 The corner, I spent my whole youth there.
08:50 Not the corner, we have to... we'll call it something else
08:54 but you can only go to a very specific place that doesn't
08:56 have all the distractions around it. Yeah! Okay, so sign the
09:00 contract? Oh, okay. There's nothing on there.
09:04 We're going to write your treatment plan and send it to
09:06 After I sign it, alright, no, that does make sense.
09:11 where do you go that's not interesting?
09:13 One of the afflictions I have I think,
09:15 I don't know if it's an affliction or not...Curiosity!
09:17 Everything is interesting, everything is interesting.
09:20 I'll just go out and stand in the backyard
09:22 and I think I'll go in the back yard, I'll clear my thoughts
09:25 there and my goodness there is a moth that I have never seen
09:27 before and it's like where did that come from?
09:29 And I wonder if I Google it if I could figure out where
09:31 that...Everything... I think Google and you are
09:34 like a bad combination, like... It is a bad combination.
09:36 You can't just look one thing up. Exactly.
09:40 But everything's interesting so where do you go that isn't
09:45 interesting? Yeah. Everything is interesting.
09:48 What have you tried in the past to (shut your brain down)?
09:50 Some people rely on anti-anxiety meds, sleep meds, Melatonin,
09:55 what have you tried? This is probably a bad idea
09:58 you're gonna recoil in horror but one thing, I do two things,
10:00 white noise number one. There's something about
10:02 white noise that helps your brain drift and if I can get my brain
10:05 to drift...I don't know what that is, what is white noise?
10:06 White noise is like the static on your television.
10:10 Or you can even get white noise apps on your iPhone...
10:12 Yeah I've got an electric fan on my I iPad, that I just
10:15 turn on a fan. A fan is white noise
10:17 and that somehow gets your brain to drift.
10:19 The other thing I do is I stick my iPhone under my pillow.
10:22 Nowadays with, you know, tune in to radio and apps
10:25 I can listen to any radio station in the world
10:27 3ABN, I can listen to 3ABN. I need somebody to talk.
10:30 In the old days, I used to go down and watch the preacher
10:33 he was on at two a.m. on the TV and turn it really low.
10:36 You know, there's really actually, sleep aids
10:39 that are recordings of women speaking and they're usually
10:42 like in a librarian kind of context and their speaking
10:45 in a way that you can't really hear what they are saying
10:46 but going like gibberish. Yeah. And just the con...
10:49 That's what I am looking for and I find that suddenly
10:51 I'm trying...and if I turn it down low enough
10:53 now I have to listen and every- thing else fades into the
10:56 background but that interaction and I don't want to use the word
11:01 hypnosis because I'm not a fan of that whole,
11:03 but there's something about... The objectionable thing about
11:05 hypnosis is mind control, one mind...but this is not
11:08 This is calming. This is calming. This is calming. And that helps
11:11 you. Oh yeah, absolutely. And then you wake up at
11:13 two in the morning and change the channel, Yeah!
11:16 So I want to go back to your fear though, I think that was
11:18 really fertile ground and your perfectionism. Watch me.
11:21 I'm not going to let go of that either...No, no.
11:24 I really think that you would be able to bless...
11:27 I mean you are blessing thousands maybe millions
11:30 of people with your ministry and it's awesome but I really
11:33 think that you could bless more people if you had a
11:34 testimony of overcoming perfectionism.
11:37 Because perfectionism does, I mean you're such a jolly
11:40 soul, you laugh your way through it and then you admit
11:42 you know how know how some people it is their
11:44 own doing so can we probe a little deeper into the
11:47 perfectionism. Yeah, perfectionism is a word that
11:50 because I probably squirm with that because in a religious
11:51 context that means something different, and I don't live
11:54 in that world, I don't live in the world of religious
11:56 perfectionism. But so many people do...But the principles
11:59 and the habits carry over for many people
12:02 maybe now you've successfully compartmentalized.
12:03 Oh, I totally have, yeah but. I mean Shawn the sinless...
12:07 Alright, tell me in a sentence what your home of origin
12:11 upbringing, training said to you about doing well at things?
12:17 and also what it said about not doing well?
12:20 Immigrant parents, I thought about this in the wee hours
12:25 when you are lying awake and what's doing this to you?
12:27 And so, Immigrant parents, father who comes at 18 with
12:32 45 dollars and you've got to make it, so there's probably
12:35 if you've got to make it.
12:37 And I feel responsible for my family, so I think
12:42 I got to make it, how am I going to support my wife
12:46 if we retire one day? How am I going to...
12:48 Gotta make it was probably a huge part of my upbringing
12:54 and working hard...Well, wait a minute, there's a weird
12:56 association there because you being perfect in all your tweets
13:00 is not going to have any impact at all...No, I know.
13:02 as to whether you can support your family or not.
13:03 What a...The English language is how I make my living.
13:08 No, but you being imperfect is not going to hurt you
13:11 you're still going to be able to support your family so
13:13 I don't accept that. Can you... Yeah, okay.
13:14 Yeah, try again. Laughter. I don't know.
13:19 I definitely grew up in an atmosphere of you got to make it
13:23 and do...and probably grew up Dutch/Calvinist background which
13:26 which is a huge work ethic. Work is an act of worship
13:31 you do your very best, not because not for ego's sake
13:35 or for pride's sake but because that's how you honor God.
13:39 Uh-hum. That is an element there as well.
13:41 Okay, so there's a link. Yeah. Oh yeah, this is how you
13:46 get one lifetime and your life is a testimony to God's
13:50 goodness. That would have to be subconscious if I'm doing that
13:54 because I don't start out my day thinking...
13:57 Right. Obviously something that's driving this is
14:00 subconscious, you're not choosing to not be able to sleep.
14:03 I do think there is something significant going on and like
14:06 Jen mentioned anxiety, and I know you don't really like
14:09 that word. But if you think of it as when a person's
14:13 under pressure or has fear, they tend to go to one or the
14:18 other end of a spectrum so if their tendency is when they
14:22 overwhelmed or under pressure to become depressed.
14:25 then it's kind of like if you are in a car and you're
14:28 experiencing pressure or intensity of some kind
14:32 the depressed person crawls in the back seat and covers
14:35 himself with a gray blanket and huddles there
14:37 because they are overwhelmed they can't fix it. Right.
14:40 I tend to, be give me the wheel. The opposite exactly.
14:43 The opposite reaction is I think I've got this
14:46 and you tighten your grip on the wheel and you take over
14:50 that's exactly what I think is driving what is going on
14:54 here but there are things that you're able to put your
14:57 put yourself in the passengers seat and relax on.
15:00 So the question is that why is it that what happens
15:02 before you go to sleep in the driver's seat clutching the
15:07 steering wheel category and how could you move it to
15:10 being able to be in the passengers' seat. Good question.
15:12 If there's some avoidance, what would happen if you
15:15 didn't do your best? Put it in a sentence right from your gut?
15:18 Your upbringing. Really Simple, I would know I didn't do my best.
15:21 And that would...What would happen? If you knew.
15:25 What would that mean about you?
15:27 I actually derive joy from knowing I did my best
15:31 and not doing my best would be...You are tough.
15:33 I know, I know, but I am being honest, I'm trying to be
15:36 transparent. Alright, alright. I'm trying...
15:37 The reason I've objected to the word anxiety is I don't want
15:39 people to think there is a cold sweat or that there's a...
15:42 There's not, it's just a fact of...Symptomology of the
15:45 normal anxiety features. No! I don't have panic attacks
15:47 I don't have cold sweats, I don't get the knot in my stomach,
15:51 maybe once in a blue moon, who doesn't once in a blue moon?
15:55 It's I can't turn it off, it's active, it's I can't.
15:59 It's a racing thought. It's racing thoughts
16:00 It's in DNA here, I don't think it's all you being damaged
16:04 from childhood or anything like that...I think there's...
16:06 No, I had a really good child- hood, let me just say
16:08 Mom and Dad watched 3ABN it was really great. Laughter.
16:10 Seriously! No, no, I had a good childhood. Did you?
16:14 Yeah, sure I did. You were happy? Oh yeah!
16:16 Well adjusted? I don't know, you know me, how well-adjusted
16:19 am I? Do you have children? Yeah, I do.
16:21 How does this impact your parenting and your relationship
16:25 with them? That's a really good question.
16:27 Ah, I tend to demand quite a bit. Our motto in our house
16:34 is work first, play later. Okay, I could have actually
16:37 verbalized that to you but I wanted to ask,
16:39 I want to make sure you are aware that there might be
16:43 some transference but to how you expect... Oh yeah...
16:46 I think about that a lot. What do you think about that?
16:49 I try to back off a bit, I try to say it's okay.
16:52 Now the other component there is of course my kids have
16:55 grown up in a fishbowl so I've deliberately tried to not
16:59 grown up in a fishbowl. Um-hum! So I've deliberately tried to
17:01 On some things I demand things, you know what, you didn't need
17:02 to get that grade. Yeah. You didn't need to get that grade...
17:06 you can do better.
17:07 Give them permission for a few typo's. Oh yeah.
17:10 Good. My kids miss far less than I do.
17:13 Good! I do give permission for that. You have two daughters
17:16 right? Two daughters, that's right? And that's it?
17:18 That's right. Okay. And so I'm aware of evening...
17:22 Have they ever said to you... I am aware of every young
17:25 man in the Continental United States.
17:27 I hear where they are. Have you modified your views on
17:29 gun control? So have they ever told you, you know Dad
17:34 can you just let go or are we just feel like we're going
17:36 to make a mistake and we're so worried?
17:38 Have they conveyed any of that to you?
17:40 Once in a while, once in a while.
17:42 Not very often and I'm quite willing, I'm quite willing
17:47 to take it if it is sincere and I'm not willing to take it
17:51 as an excuse. So if a child says, well maybe that's all
17:54 I'm capable of, no, no, not a chance.
17:58 Do I demand a Road Scholar? No. Nah, I don't.
18:03 But I am cognizant of the fact that I'm highly driven
18:07 that I might expect that of people who aren't put in
18:11 too much pressure on them, I do think about that.
18:13 Has the drivenness ever challenged bonding?
18:17 Cause there's kind of a tension between relationship
18:22 and task orientation. People tend to be on a spectrum
18:25 somewhere so they may be very task achievement oriented
18:27 or some people may be more relationally oriented.
18:30 Sometimes those things come to a sword's point so if you
18:32 ever noticed in your relationship for instance
18:33 with your kids that the drivenness factor of
18:36 your whole family, cause you are all like...Yeah, we're all...
18:38 high achievers. Yeah, we're all like we're young...
18:39 So, has that ever gotten in the way of bonding?
18:41 No, we're really close. Are you?
18:43 I have to say and I thank God for that every day
18:46 I um, yeah. Do we ever have moments of tension?
18:50 I got teenage kids, sure we do.
18:52 Yeah, I think don't give me that. It's normal.
18:53 Don't give me that. No that's fine. Don't give who what?
18:56 Don't give me that excuse. Like give me a break.
18:58 You say that to your kids? Oh yeah.
19:00 But I, we're close, we're closer...When I grew up,
19:06 oh, I had a good family growing up but we weren't...
19:09 I wouldn't describe us as close as my family is now.
19:14 And so, I'm still daddy, and I enjoyed that moment by the
19:18 way Jean got demoted to Mom.
19:19 Laughter! I'm still daddy but... What do you mean she got demoted?
19:24 Oh, the kids are mommy, mommy, mommy and she became mom
19:27 and I'm still daddy. How do you find time for family and
19:32 relationship? It's not easy, it's true our life has been
19:35 atypical in that in our children's youngest years
19:40 we were on the road 220-230 days a year.
19:43 With the whole family, sometimes.
19:45 And then we decided that takes too much of a toll on our
19:48 children. A different time Zone every other day and they're
19:51 little and so...and then it was me on the road quite a bit
19:55 because we had to balance, how much time do we take together
19:59 and how much is this actually damaging?
20:00 You know they don't have a life, they don't have friends,
20:02 they don't have and that wasn't easy.
20:04 Are we close, yeah, my daughter called me last night,
20:08 hey Dad I'm thinking about this college, what do you think?
20:11 This happens all the time, we've been very open
20:13 we talk about everything, we talk about...
20:15 we talk about everything.
20:17 We talk about everything and my kids are far more open than
20:19 I would have been as a child, you know the Dutch and German
20:23 don't talk about certain... They're not talkers...
20:25 Yeah, they don't share emotions and...No, I don't share emotions
20:27 unless I have to. You don't? You've been sharing for the last
20:30 hour Shawn. Yeah, I know, I know.
20:31 You do a really good job at it too. Yes. Yeah, right.
20:34 Very good. I get a gold star for being...You do get a gold star.
20:37 It took courage to stand before this tribe...Laughter!
20:42 Well, we're not done with you yet, we have a few more
20:44 Oh! I want to take Jen's question that she's asked you
20:47 like three times...And I've avoided. Yeah, okay!
20:51 I'm just going to say it one more time.
20:52 If you weren't ready or you didn't
20:56 quite make it cause you said your internal drivennesses is
21:00 I got to make it. Um hum. If you didn't, what would happen?
21:07 I would know and that's the bottom line, that's it.
21:10 I would know. You, over and over again appear as your own
21:14 taskmaster, I'm not going to say tyrant but taskmaster.
21:18 I do need somebody to drive me, I never have. Yeah, Yeah.
21:20 I never have. You would know that you didn't make it but...
21:23 And then what? What would happen?
21:27 What would be so bad?
21:28 I would know, I think that's it, that's the bottom line.
21:30 Could you accept yourself if you didn't do your best?
21:33 I don't know. It would be worth experimenting with.
21:37 Would your wife and your girls still love you? Oh yeah, I hope
21:40 so... Would Jesus still love you? Of course.
21:43 Isn't that the gospel? It is. Would Shawn still love Shawn?
21:48 Oh yeah. Oh yeah, that's not... I don't know how much I love
21:52 myself. Laughter. I don't know how much I love myself.
21:55 Would you respect yourself even if you...Oh yeah, oh yeah.
21:57 I don't think that's a... I have messed up colossally...
22:01 on occasion and it's... I can roll with it.
22:03 Can you tell us about a time you messed up?
22:04 Laughter. There's not that many come to think of it.
22:10 Oh yeah, I have gone in, I have gone in say for
22:15 a presentation where I thought I can wing that and at the end
22:19 I A, knew I didn't wing it, B, it didn't obtain the desired
22:24 effect from that room. What do you mean you didn't wing it?
22:26 I didn't wing it because I didn't successfully wing it.
22:29 I really didn't wing it... C versus an A.
22:32 Yeah, you bet. Where I walked in I thought I'd come in
22:33 and say, no problem, I've done this a hundred times before
22:37 and bam, it fell apart on me and then I wished,
22:41 oh, I wished, ah I should have spent a little more time on that.
22:44 One of the, one of them, there is a level of, if I get a
22:50 phone call, hey, could you come and speak?
22:51 My first thought is, boy do I have time to get ready for that?
22:55 Really? Always! You're really really into being prepared.
22:58 Yes! Very important to you. Yes! It looks natural
23:02 if you are prepared. That's right. It's a blessing
23:05 and a curse thing, it's just finding that balance point.
23:08 I mean perfectionism can be a curse but with balance
23:13 and I think what Jen is trying to propose and we're all
23:15 trying to propose is would you take the suggestion
23:20 of doing an experiment of just practicing with some intentional
23:26 down time or intentional typos' however, they look for you.
23:30 They don't have to be on Twitter. I'll be watching
23:32 Twitter. No, there's not going to be a typo. Um,
23:35 I mean whatever that looks like, even if it's just with when
23:39 you guys have family night, just permission for being human.
23:44 Cause, that's I think our message we're wanting to
23:47 out there is we're all really just human trying to get ready
23:51 for Jesus to return. Right? Yeah, absolutely.
23:54 I don't mind being human. Yeah, it's not that he's
23:57 not human, he's human, it's the doing the best he can do
24:01 in usually tasks that have to do with communication.
24:04 Here's another little piece of it, maybe we are out of time
24:07 but I don't know. but I'm an off the charts introvert by
24:10 nature and I live in an extroverted world and I live
24:13 in an extroverted career and so for me to walk in front of
24:18 2,000 people and speak takes everything I've got to...
24:21 So, there's an element there in hyper-preparation is that
24:25 for me to do that is completely unnatural.
24:27 I'm terrified of public speaking. So you overcompensate.
24:30 Oh yeah. This is it, this is why the pop-ups are so big
24:34 at night. Yeah. Because it's your subconscious is sorting things
24:39 out and putting things in files, it's what you do as an introvert.
24:44 Yeah, well I'm off the charts I'm shy, I don't like
24:47 social gatherings, I can't stand potluck because
24:51 it's like...But, but let me quickly insert this and that is
24:55 that Shawn told me off the camera that at the end of all
24:59 his lectures he stays until the last person has been ministered
25:04 to which I want to give you not 10 but 20 stars for that
25:07 because so many public speakers they finish their job,
25:10 they walk off and they won't associate, it's almost like
25:13 they think they are on another level that you come and you
25:15 minister to people and you will not leave, you said until...
25:18 I mean there are some exceptions.
25:20 The introvert in me gets exhausted, some nights I go,
25:23 I've had enough I'm going to go. But barring exhaustion
25:25 Yeah, Yeah, I do it but I don't get upfront because I enjoy it.
25:28 I don't enjoy it. Ummu. I get upfront because those
25:31 people are in the same boat I was once in and they need some
25:33 help. And I remember when you first came on the scene you were
25:36 Henry Firerobbins understudy. Yeah. Is that the right word?
25:41 I suppose so. And you were kind of working with him from
25:43 Canada and then you took over It Is Written initially
25:47 and I remember that and I remember when you first
25:49 started speaking at camp meetings and a friend of mine
25:51 called me and said this new guy Shawn Boonstra is a really
25:53 good speaker and he's really friendly.
25:55 He talks to people afterward and he's just really like
25:59 cordial and affable and... Because that meant a lot to us
26:02 cause want to know that the people...
26:04 You know, we are all women and we tend not to get the spots
26:06 up there, it tends to be men and we want to know that those
26:08 men are caring people that are willing to come down to our level
26:13 so to speak. So, I want to say that means a lot to me that
26:15 you are that way. I'm glad that's blessing people. Yeah.
26:17 And you've always been very friendly to me personally
26:19 and I've never felt like he thinks he is just all that
26:21 and he's untouchable. I know I'm not all that.
26:24 Shawn, you've mentioned a couple of things that work
26:27 for you for the chronic struggler of insomnia out there
26:32 that maybe travels, I mean you travel time zones...
26:34 Ahh yeah. You don't just travel. What works the best for you
26:37 in those situations? In about one minute or less.
26:39 White noise, something to distract me.
26:42 I need something to distract me and if it is visual...
26:44 If it is reading, forget it I'm going to get engaged.
26:46 It's got to be audible, lights out, radio, talk radio,
26:50 and the more boring, the better. And how do you feel about it
26:53 when people write you with remedies and different
26:55 treatments for insomnia when you admit your health problems.
26:58 Sometimes I laugh about it you know please don't. Yeah.
27:00 Please don't write, please don't write, yes, I've tried...
27:03 You've tried everything, I've been to so many clinics.
27:06 You've done the gamut, I've done the sleep clinic
27:08 and they told me you just don't sleep.
27:10 Laughter! Oh, thanks. You're hopeless.
27:13 No, I tried it all, the Valerian, the Melatonin,
27:17 The melatonin gives you nightmares.
27:19 Really! Oh yeah! Not me!
27:20 That's unique to you. But you've tried you think
27:26 just about everything and you appreciate the thought but
27:28 don't bother. Is that what... Yeah, please don't.
27:30 Please don't, I, uh... Alright. We are so grateful that
27:35 you've joined us for this amazing program on...
27:38 about the man who almost never slept, he's getting a whopping
27:41 three to four hours every night these days,
27:44 we're so thankful for that it could be worse.
27:46 But we really plumbed the depths of Shawn Boonstra's psyche
27:50 and it's been a wild ride. Thank you for joining us
27:53 and may you be blessed. May you sleep well tonight?
27:56 because He gives His beloved sleep.


Revised 2024-04-25