Participants:
Series Code: MOC
Program Code: MOC170037A
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00:27 Welcome to A Multitude of Counselors.
00:29 We're so thankful you've joined us today 00:31 for our program entitled 00:32 "Escaping the black hole of depression." 00:36 Talking about the experience of our guest today, 00:38 Steve Wohlberg, Director of White Horse Media, 00:41 who had a tailspin 00:43 after many years of good mental health, 00:45 I'm assuming had a tailspin. 00:48 And it wasn't just depression really, 00:50 it was anxiety, it was panic, it was insomnia, 00:53 and a slew of other things came into your experience 00:56 that you've never faced before. 00:58 We're going to hear the story today. 00:59 But I want to start out by just giving you 01:01 a little bit of background, I think that possibly 01:04 one of the most important contributing factors, 01:07 at least at the beginning 01:09 of your tailspin was medication. 01:11 And so I want to talk about drugs and mental health. 01:13 We all know that street drugs, alcohol, 01:16 recreational drugs have mental health effects. 01:20 It's well-known in counseling circles 01:22 that people with vulnerabilities 01:25 towards psychotic disorders 01:26 often experience the onset of a disorder, 01:29 or psychotic break, 01:30 when they take psychedelic drugs. 01:32 I remember in high school kids taking LSD 01:34 and really basically losing their mind after that. 01:37 And so we're all acquainted 01:38 with the dangers of street drugs, 01:40 but what about prescription drugs? 01:42 What we often don't realize is that prescription drugs 01:45 have side effects. 01:47 The doctor told me once all drugs have side effects, 01:50 some drugs have only side effects. 01:52 The reality is that these drugs are very powerful. 01:55 And often the doctors don't have enough time 01:58 to give us all the details about what might happen. 02:02 The other factor is that medicating people 02:05 is kind of like Russian roulette, 02:07 you never know how a particular medication 02:09 is going to affect that particular body. 02:13 So there's so many factors 02:14 that sometimes that person goes home 02:16 and the side effects can be very, very significant. 02:19 It can even happen with herbs. 02:21 I remember a young lady that I was talking to 02:24 was on an herb for depression. 02:25 And ironically enough, 02:27 she developed anxiety 02:29 as a result of the herb that she was on. 02:30 So we need to be aware 02:32 that our bodies are very finely tuned 02:34 and these things are foreign substances 02:36 and they will have an effect. 02:38 There is a diagnosis in the diagnostic manual 02:41 called medication induced 02:44 anxiety disorders, isn't that interesting? 02:46 So the following medications can cause anxiety, 02:48 ready for this? 02:50 Anesthetics, analgesics, ADHD drugs, asthma drugs, 02:55 bronchodilators, insulin, thyroid, 02:57 or oral contraceptives, antihistamines, 03:00 Parkinson's drugs, 03:02 corticosteroids, blood pressure meds, 03:04 antipsychotics and antidepressants. 03:06 Is there anything that's not on that list, 03:08 just about all of them can cause anxiety. 03:10 And we know those of us that deal with depression 03:13 and help people with depression 03:15 that often young adults given even SSRI drugs 03:19 which I consider to be a relatively safe class of drug 03:23 for depression, Kenny, 03:25 in that first month to six weeks 03:27 have an increase in suicidality because of that medication. 03:31 So these are very powerful substances 03:33 and we need to respect that. 03:35 Now sleep medications are notorious for side effects. 03:39 And it's kind of counterintuitive 03:41 that a medication that would is supposed to calm you 03:44 can actually jazz you up so to speak. 03:46 But what's happening is very similar 03:48 to what happens with alcohol, 03:49 and that is that alcohol is a sedative. 03:51 Many people that use alcohol, 03:53 drink it to go to sleep at night, 03:55 but the body in attempting to compensate 03:58 for that sedative effect will become hyper active. 04:00 And I assume something similar is going on 04:03 sometimes with sleep medications. 04:05 So our guest today, 04:07 I think may have had some side effects going on. 04:10 And we'll unpack that 04:11 as we get into your story, Steve. 04:13 But let me introduce my panel first. 04:15 This is my friend Paul Coneff, 04:17 he runs Straight to the Heart ministries, 04:21 and he's a marriage and family therapist 04:23 from Texas. 04:24 So glad you came. 04:25 This is Dr. Jean Wright from Philadelphia. 04:29 He's a clinical forensic psychologist. 04:32 And an amazing guy. 04:33 And this is the beautiful Christina Cecotto, 04:35 a professional counselor from Tennessee. 04:38 And I'm so glad you're here 04:39 because you know a lot about lifestyle medicine too 04:41 and you'll make a valid contribution. 04:43 And then, Steve Wohlberg, 04:45 the director of White Horse Media, 04:47 who's going to tell his story. 04:48 Steve, what in the world, how did you come so unglued? 04:52 A guy that just has so much that he has to keep together? 04:55 What happened? 04:57 Well, if you don't mind, 04:58 I'd like to start with the Bible text. 05:00 And that takes us to the end of the story. 05:02 Thankfully, it ended well. 05:04 Praise God. 05:06 Psalm 40, David said, 05:07 "He brought me up out of a horrible pit, 05:11 out of the miry clay, He set my feet upon a rock, 05:14 He established my steps, 05:15 He has put a new song in my mouth, 05:17 praise to our God, many will see it in fear, 05:20 and will trust in the Lord." 05:22 And I can really relate to that text. 05:24 I've been through a lot of battles in my life 05:27 in different ways. 05:28 But this past summer was a nightmare 05:32 that I can never fully describe. 05:35 I don't understand all the reasons 05:38 what brought me into the crisis. 05:40 I think I've got a handle on some of them. 05:44 I'm a type A personality. 05:45 And so, you know, push, push, push, 05:47 I think some of us can relate to that. 05:50 I have always been a high achiever, 05:51 trying to do a lot of things. 05:53 And I was at the 3ABN camp meeting, 05:56 and I was sleep deprived 05:57 because I was delayed in my travel, 06:00 I got into the hotel 2 o'clock in the morning, 06:04 got up in the morning, went to 3ABN, 06:06 spoke a number of times, when it was over, 06:09 went back to my hotel, packed up, went to bed, 06:11 got up in the morning, went to St. Louis, 06:13 flew to Pennsylvania, 06:15 got my rental car, drove to the camp meeting, 06:18 just in time to get to my hotel room, 06:20 to change my shirt and my tie to go to the camp meeting. 06:23 And I was supposed to speak seven nights in a row... 06:26 PA camp meeting? 06:28 Pennsylvania camp meeting. 06:29 Yeah, conference camp meeting. 06:30 And it was just push, push, push. 06:32 And I had been struggling with some issues, 06:36 tightness in my chest, 06:37 things that I didn't really completely understand. 06:40 And as I was into the Pennsylvania camp meeting 06:44 where I was speaking every night, 06:46 I just didn't feel good. 06:48 I just felt, you know, bad. 06:51 And I was questioning 06:52 whether I should even be speaking. 06:54 When you say you felt bad, physical symptoms? 06:56 Yeah. 06:57 Like I said, the tightness in the chest, 06:59 just stamina issues, and just pressure. 07:04 And then in the middle of that one week in Pennsylvania, 07:09 one night at two in the morning I woke up, 07:13 and couldn't go back to sleep, 07:15 and just felt like 07:17 this was more than just a normal, 07:19 you know, nocturnal awakening, 07:21 like people get up and go to the bathroom. 07:23 It just felt like it was more than that. 07:25 And a physician connected to the camp. 07:31 Somebody knew him, he came to my hotel room, 07:34 examined me, I went to his office, 07:36 did a stress test 07:37 and a whole bunch of tests and... 07:38 What were the symptoms you're experiencing 07:40 besides wakefulness for you having part? 07:41 That was the main thing, it's just anxiety, I guess. 07:45 And my stress test was fine. 07:47 I'm a runner, I jog, 07:49 and I mean consider myself in pretty good health. 07:51 I try to eat well. 07:53 And he basically said, 07:54 your blood results look pretty good, 07:57 and you look fine. 07:58 And he recommended taking a tylenol PM 08:01 to help me go to sleep. 08:02 Did you know it was anxiety at the time? 08:06 Well, if you were to ask me at the time, 08:08 are you experiencing anxiety? 08:10 I would have said, "Yes." 08:12 But you wouldn't have known it was a diagnosable kind of 08:14 anxiety or had anything? 08:15 Not really, not really. 08:17 And so it really started with the tylenol PM. 08:20 I mean that was part of what you mentioned the drugs, 08:23 the medications, the sleep meds. 08:25 So I started with that and it's a long story, 08:28 you know, I try to bring it together. 08:29 But he probably was thinking take the tylenol PM tonight 08:32 and then you'll be okay tomorrow, 08:34 but you kept taking it? 08:35 Well, I took it for a fewnights, 08:37 and it helped, and I flew back home, 08:38 and it wore off 08:41 as far as its ability to help me sleep. 08:43 Yeah, you build up a tolerance 08:45 very quickly to these medications 08:46 and you need more of the same to give you same effect. 08:47 That's right. 08:49 And I met a lady on an airplane, 08:50 she work for hospital system, and she, 08:52 we got into a conversation, and she said that, 08:54 "When I'm under stress 08:55 and I can't sleep at night I take ambien. 08:57 So I thought, "Okay. Well, maybe I'll try ambien." 08:59 So went to my local pharmacist, 09:01 when I came back to Idaho after Pennsylvania, 09:04 and I tried the ambien, 09:05 and that worked for a few nights, 09:07 and that wore off and then I talked to 09:09 a couple physician friends of mine that I know, 09:12 and they recommended on a temporary basis trazodone 09:15 and then seroquel, and then I was getting... 09:19 At the same time? 09:20 No, first it was one after the other... 09:22 So off the ambien, please tell me about that. 09:23 Went off the ambien, went on to the... 09:25 I think it was trazodone first 09:26 and then went on to the seroquel 09:28 and part of all of this was that my son 09:32 was getting ready to have his 13th birthday 09:35 on a Sabbath, 09:36 and I was going to baptize him on that day. 09:39 He'd made the wonderful decision to be baptized 09:41 and dad was going to baptize him. 09:43 And as about a week prior to his baptism, 09:46 I was having difficulty sleeping, 09:48 and then I went a whole night late. 09:51 I lay in bed the entire night without sleeping at all. 09:55 And it was not fun. 09:56 Is this the night before the baptism? 09:58 No, it was about a week before. 10:00 And so as we were getting closer to the baptism, 10:03 my anxiety was increasing that, you know, 10:06 I'm going to be in front of a church, 10:08 I'm going to baptize my son, I'm not sleeping well. 10:09 I don't do well sleep deprived, 10:11 I can feel my mind starting to... 10:14 Turn to mash. 10:15 Slip. 10:17 And so I talked to my physician friends and I said, 10:18 "I really need something strong 10:21 because I got to get through this 10:23 at least for now." 10:24 And somebody recommended 10:26 I think if I'm saying it, right, lorazepam or lorazepam, 10:30 which is a benzo and that surely knocked me out. 10:34 So can you just put a pause here 10:35 tell us about benzodiazepines, Christine? 10:38 Benzos are highly addictive. 10:40 Within how many weeks the person addicted 10:42 to benzodiazepines? 10:44 It takes about two weeks before they become addictive. 10:47 But what is really tough are the withdrawal symptoms. 10:50 They're usually worse than the symptoms 10:52 that the person is experiencing and the reason 10:54 why they took the drug in the first place. 10:57 So most benzodiazepines, 10:58 we find people get dependent on them pretty quickly. 11:02 And most people that do counseling 11:04 when they hear benzos are concerned. 11:07 So you were on them for how long? 11:09 About two weeks, 11:10 and I can totally relate to the addiction. 11:13 Yeah. 11:15 As soon as I was on it for a few days, 11:17 I thought to myself, I don't want to be on this. 11:18 I want to sleep without this. 11:20 And so one night, I thought, I prayed. 11:22 I said, "God, I'm not going to take it tonight. 11:24 I want to go to sleep. Just You, and me, and my body." 11:27 And 9 o'clock, went to 10 o'clock, 11:30 to 11 o'clock, to 12 o'clock, 11:31 I'm laying in bed and I just thought, 11:33 "Finally, Lord, I need to sleep." 11:34 So I took it. 11:35 And after being on this for about two weeks, 11:39 and there was a lot of things happening inside my head. 11:43 It was just, it was a deepening crisis. 11:46 Can you talk to us about? 11:47 Yeah. Well... 11:48 What were some of the symptoms? But you shrinks here. 11:54 Lack of being able to concentrate? 11:56 I felt like I was losing my ability to think straight. 12:00 And so after about two weeks, 12:04 I remembered that somebody in Pennsylvania had said to me 12:08 as I was getting ready to leave that camp meeting, he said, 12:11 "You need to talk to Dr. Neil Nedley. 12:13 He's an expert on the brain and he can probably help you." 12:19 So I remembered that conversation, 12:21 grabbed my phone, looked at my contact list, 12:23 I'm sure enough, there was Nedley cell 12:25 'cause he's a friend of mine from years ago. 12:28 And I texted him and thankfully he texted me right back. 12:31 And then I called him and thankfully, he answered, 12:34 and we had a conversation, I told them about my symptoms, 12:37 my insomnia, anxiety. 12:39 And then I said to him, "I'm on the lorazepam." 12:43 And when he heard that, this was a life changer for me. 12:47 He said, "Steve, you've got to get down 12:49 here to Weimar right away." 12:51 He said, "We have a 10-day depression 12:53 and anxiety recovery program that we run every month or so." 12:57 And he said, "We take 20 people and we've gotten 19, 13:00 and I can squeeze you in. 13:01 And you got to get here as soon as you can." 13:04 So when we got off the phone, I went to my wife. 13:06 And I told her I've changed my mind 13:08 what we discussed it we were going to go to ASI 13:11 to a big annual convention 13:14 where we had a White Horse Media booth 13:16 and an annual board meeting. 13:18 And I said, "I think I need to go to Weimar. 13:20 And I need to cancel this trip." 13:22 So she was all for it. 13:23 She wanted me to recover. 13:24 And she was concerned about me as well. 13:27 Did she have to run the booth alone? 13:29 No, we had other people there. 13:30 But so anyway, 13:32 when she drove me to the airport, 13:33 she helped me pack. 13:35 By this time my mental state was continuing to deteriorate. 13:38 Somehow I caught my connections. 13:41 And I was picked up at the airport by a friend, 13:45 one of Dr. Nedley's assistance in Northern California. 13:48 And he drove me an hour to Weimar Institute 13:52 in Northern California. 13:54 And during that hour drive, he shared his story. 13:57 He said that there was a time in his life 13:59 where for seven years he was on these medications, 14:04 these sleep meds, and he just was a mess. 14:07 But the Lord brought him through that 14:09 through various things. 14:11 And he said, "Now it's totally gone, 14:12 and I'm back to normal." 14:14 So could you just pause for a second, 14:16 you got really the beginning of it was insomnia. 14:19 Yes. 14:20 And would you say 14:21 that the anxiety preceded the insomnia? 14:23 Yes, but not nearly to the extent. 14:26 As bad as it got. 14:27 As it surfaced after I was on this medication. 14:32 I was on the medication, things just spiraled. 14:35 I'm trying to kind of scale back a little. 14:37 So we're experiencing some insomnia, 14:39 did you develop what we call secondary disturbance 14:41 where I can't sleep and I'm really bothered 14:42 that I can't sleep, 14:44 there must be something majorly wrong with me. 14:45 And did it kind of snowball from there? 14:47 You were getting more anxiety? 14:49 I don't know. 14:50 And I don't really know exactly what, 14:52 you know, even to this day, as I look back... 14:55 You don't know what caused the anxiety. 14:56 I don't know all the reasons, 14:57 Dr. Nedley believes that part of what contributed 15:00 to what he considered 15:01 to be my brain chemistry out of whack, 15:04 was spending so many hours for so many years 15:08 in front of a computer screen. 15:09 And you spend like most of your day? 15:11 Well, I work at the office, and I've got my computer there, 15:13 and I'm always going, I'm writing books, 15:15 I'm doing research, I'm answering emails 15:16 and etc, etc. 15:18 And probably my genetics was part of that, 15:21 I'm a high achiever and the type A. 15:25 What was going on in your family, 15:26 have any anxiety? 15:28 No, no, we have no depression in our family, 15:30 we have no suicidal tendencies, we got nothing like that. 15:32 Insomnia? 15:34 No, not that I'm aware of. 15:35 Well, it sounds to like as, 15:37 as you were describing your story 15:38 that you were really, really running. 15:40 I mean, you were off the plane, on another, 15:42 and you were getting into a hotel, 15:43 I mean, you barely had time to change. 15:45 I was putting myself too hard, and I woke up, 15:49 and I couldn't sleep in Pennsylvania, 15:51 I took the advice of the well meaning physician 15:53 and I started with the tylenol PM, 15:55 one thing led to another, 15:57 I went an entire night without sleep. 15:59 I finally got on lorazepam, and told Dr. Nedley, 16:02 this is what I was doing, I was rerouted to Weimar, 16:07 and one of the first things 16:09 he did was he took me off the lorazepam 16:11 and he put me on something else 16:12 that he said it's easier to get off of. 16:15 And he did a blood draw, 16:16 nine blood draws, not him himself, 16:18 but his assistants, nine blood draws. 16:20 Took my blood pressure when I got there, 16:22 it was 195/114, if you can believe that. 16:27 I was having severe anxiety attacks. 16:29 I didn't know what was going on. 16:30 I was confused and Dr. Nedley said, 16:32 "We got to get you off this benzo." 16:34 And he warned me. 16:35 He said, "You're going to go through severe withdrawals 16:39 for about two weeks 16:40 as you're getting off this medication. 16:42 And I went through this entire program. 16:44 It was a 10 day program. 16:46 He kept me there another week 16:48 because I just wasn't ready to go home. 16:50 And during those 10 days, I mean, 16:51 it was a combination of hydrotherapy 16:55 and a lot of exercise and plant based natural diet 17:00 and just a whole host of things that were good for my body. 17:03 Were you allowed to have your computer? 17:05 They took away my cell phone? 17:06 Everything? Everything. 17:07 Except for 45 minutes at night, or maybe half hour 17:10 when I can call my wife and my kids. 17:11 But no computer the whole time? No, nothing. 17:13 So what was that like to no computer, no work? 17:15 It was wonderful. 17:17 Your emails are piling up, all these jobs like you... 17:19 Yeah, well, by this time, you know, 17:22 I took the depression test when I got there. 17:24 And I scored very high 17:25 that I was very, I was depressed. 17:27 And it was the insomnia, you know, wasn't sleeping. 17:30 I was on the benzo, 17:32 and my future just looked very, very dark. 17:35 And that's what I was going to say. 17:36 Is there a whole bunch of cognitive factors 17:38 that come along with depression, 17:40 you have to have a certain belief system. 17:42 So I'm not hearing anything about that. 17:43 What were you... Yeah. 17:45 Inside of my head was telling me 17:47 that I may not get out of this, 17:50 that I'm never going to get back to normal. 17:52 So you were disturbed... 17:53 And that's why I was just so, 17:54 you know, and I think the medication 17:56 I mean, all of this happens so fast. 17:58 I'm not prone to depression, I'm not prone to these things. 18:00 But it all just hit me 18:02 like a ton of bricks in a short time. 18:05 And before I knew it, I was in a hole. 18:07 So it was all concerned about the condition you were in, 18:09 but there was no belief about the other aspects of your life. 18:13 It was mostly disturbance about being so disturbed? 18:16 I think so. 18:18 I mean, some people get depressed 18:20 because, you know, like, if you have an affair, 18:21 and you've done something you shouldn't be doing, 18:24 or you lose your job, or... 18:25 I was depressed because I wasn't sleeping. 18:27 You were depressed because you were depressed. 18:28 I didn't think I was going to get out of this. 18:30 And I thought things began to, 18:33 I started having this sense of hopelessness. 18:36 You didn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. 18:37 I didn't see any light. That's right. 18:38 And I thought, you know, I'm probably going to die. 18:41 You know, if I don't get out of this, I'm going to die. 18:44 And not only that, 18:45 but there was not just one night without sleep, 18:47 there was more than one night. 18:48 And the worst part during those 10 days, 18:51 or two weeks when I got off lorazepam, 18:53 and I can tell you more about this 18:54 if you want to ask, but... 18:56 Now we want to hear about getting out of the lorazepam. 18:58 At one point I went four when I was at Weimar, 19:00 I went four nights in a row without sleep. 19:05 And every morning 5:30 19:07 there's a knock on the door saying, 19:08 "It's time for exercise." 19:09 And I had to push myself and exercise 19:12 and go through all of the different things 19:14 that are part of the program 19:15 which were really good for me and the body 19:17 to just, you know, like, 19:19 especially the hydrotherapy going in the hot tub 19:21 and then the ice cold water, 19:23 and back in the hot tub and the cold water, 19:24 and the hot tub and the cold water, 19:26 three to five times, twice a day, 19:28 two or three times a day. 19:30 The program is designed to reboot your life, 19:33 but because I was getting off the medication, 19:36 and I wasn't sleeping, you know, 19:37 during those two weeks, I mean, it was a nightmare. 19:42 Do describe what was going on? 19:44 Well, first of all, I am already thin, 19:46 but I lost quite a bit of weight, 19:48 I had no appetite for food. 19:51 Did you eat anyway? Yes. 19:52 I forced myself to eat every meal. 19:54 I forced myself to eat. 19:56 I wasn't sleeping at night. 19:58 Did you engage socially with people? 19:59 Yes. You did? 20:01 Yes. 20:02 Was that difficult? Was that? 20:06 I think it's just part of my nature, it's just, 20:08 you know, it's just the way I am. 20:10 When you talk to people at that time, 20:11 did you talk to them about how hopeless you felt? 20:14 Or did you talk to them about White Horse Media? 20:15 We talked about different things. 20:16 So there was another man that was very, 20:18 he was going through benzo withdrawals, 20:19 like I was and he and I really buddied up together, 20:22 we would take walks on the trails together, 20:24 we used to talk... 20:25 Did you go in as Steve Wolhberg 20:27 the mighty warrior for God with White Horse Media 20:30 or did you go and as a broken man? 20:31 How did you connect with people socially? 20:33 I went there as a broken man. 20:35 I believe in truth and truth told me, 20:39 I'm in big trouble. 20:40 And there were times when I mean 20:43 and I started having just, you know, 20:45 as you lay awake on your bed all night, 20:49 you can't sleep. 20:51 I don't know whether these were actual voices 20:53 in my head from the devil himself. 20:56 I strongly believe that 20:57 we wrestle not against flesh and blood, 20:59 but against principalities and powers, 21:01 and that there are real forces of evil, 21:03 and I heard those voices inside my head. 21:04 What did they say? 21:06 They laughed at me, they just said, 21:08 "Ha-ha-ha, you're not going to sleep, 21:10 you're never going to get out of this, 21:11 you're done. 21:13 And in the morning I'd hear this "Ha-ha-ha." 21:14 I've got you now Steve Wolhberg and I'll see you tonight. 21:17 When you go on your bed, 21:18 you're not going to sleep, "Ha-ha-ha." 21:21 So sleep, you almost developed an association, 21:23 negative association with sleep itself. 21:25 Or we trying... 21:27 I was just, I was terrified to go back to bed 21:30 because I thought, what if I lay there all night, 21:33 and I can't sleep. 21:34 And I'm just thinking about Bible verses 21:38 because I'm feeling this battle inside my head 21:40 in the middle of the night. 21:42 I'm feeling these forces trying to take over. 21:45 And I'm just thinking, 21:46 "No, Lord, you've got to bring me through this." 21:48 And what brought me 21:49 through this whole period was promises, Bible promises. 21:53 And there's many of them, "I could just rattle off, 21:55 I will never leave you nor forsake you come to me, 21:57 I will give you rest. 21:59 I am with you. I will restore you to health." 22:01 Jeremiah 30:17. 22:03 "I will restore you to health, I will heal you of your wounds. 22:05 And I was relying on those promises. 22:07 And I even had suicidal thoughts. 22:09 I mean, I had thought saying, 22:10 you might as well just take your life, 22:12 you're never going to get out of this. 22:14 And I've never had those thoughts before. 22:16 And I had this picture of my son Seth and my daughter 22:20 on my dresser in my room at Weimar. 22:22 And I looked at that picture. 22:24 And I thought to myself, 22:26 "If I take my life, you know, what am I going to do? 22:29 What's that going to do to Seth? 22:31 What's that going to do Adel? 22:32 And what's that going to do to my wife? 22:34 What's that going to do to my 89-year-old dad?" 22:37 You know, he's going to go down his grave, you know, 22:40 thinking that his son killed himself. 22:41 So I thought never. 22:43 And I just told the devil, "Never. 22:45 I'm not going to do it. 22:46 I can't do it. I won't do it. 22:48 I felt like I was on the edge of a psych ward." 22:50 But and I don't think it was because I held on, 22:54 I think it was because God held on to me. 22:57 Amen. That's right. 22:59 And I think in the next half hour, 23:00 we can go into more of the details 23:02 of how God brought me out of this, 23:03 because He did bring me out of this. 23:05 He did answer my prayers. 23:07 He did help me to get off all the medications. 23:09 He reset my life. 23:11 And like the Psalm said, 23:12 He brought me out of the horrible pit 23:15 and I praise His name for rescuing myself. 23:17 So let me ask my counselors here, 23:21 if he was your client, which he kind of is right now? 23:23 What would you ask him? 23:25 I wouldn't ask him a question right now. 23:28 But one thing that I would use his own words 23:30 to help me understand what happened. 23:32 You're type A personality, high achiever. 23:34 Yes. 23:36 Whatever you set your mind to, you achieve, and it happens. 23:39 And there you were that night, and you said, "Go to sleep." 23:42 And you couldn't. That's right. 23:43 You were trying to will yourself 23:45 to do something that your body couldn't do for you. 23:47 And when you just read those texts, 23:49 and gave me those texts, it made me think about 23:51 when you decided it wasn't Steve anymore 23:53 that can handle it. 23:54 But it was God that could handle it. 23:56 And you held on to His promises. 23:57 That's when you started relinquishing 23:58 some of the power that you thought you had, 24:00 and you gave up on somebody, Steve, 24:02 you're good enough, you can do it. 24:04 But everything you would set up to that point 24:06 was you were going to make a change, 24:07 you were going make it happen. 24:09 And those voices laughing and really just kind of 24:11 ridicule you those inside voices. 24:13 You were fighting up against that 24:15 because at some point, you had to step back and say, 24:17 "Oh, I can't do this." 24:18 And that's where the Bible, that's what those promises are. 24:21 When you're a high achiever 24:22 and everything you touch turns to gold. 24:25 And then when it doesn't, you start trying to fix it. 24:28 When you can conquer so many things, 24:30 but you can't conquer your own. 24:31 And it gets frustrating. 24:34 Now what was it like to be in that situation 24:35 where couldn't will it, and you've shifted 24:37 from being a director of being very public, 24:41 being very active, to being a broken man. 24:45 Well, what was it like? It was a nightmare. 24:47 And there's a verse in Job 17 24:51 where Job's verse 1:17. 24:54 "My spirit is broken, My days are extinguished. 24:58 The grave is ready for me. 24:59 I am imagine myself, you know, in a casket, I mean, 25:04 my bags growing under my eyes, I was losing weight, 25:07 I would go to the cafeteria to eat my food and my fingers. 25:10 For some reason, were started curling in. 25:12 And I thought, "I'm done." 25:14 You know, I was totally broken and totally helpless. 25:17 And totally, I felt totally lost. 25:19 I felt like God didn't love me anymore. 25:21 I felt like I was hopeless. 25:23 I had no hope. 25:24 And, but then God taught me. 25:27 Don't rely on your mind. 25:29 Don't rely on your thoughts. 25:31 The heart of Jeremiah 17, I think it's verse 11 says, 25:33 "The heart is deceitful above all things, 25:35 and desperately wicked." 25:36 And then I... 25:38 It hit me one day that if my heart is deceitful, 25:40 then I can't trust in everything 25:42 my mind is telling me. 25:43 All these thoughts my mind is telling me... 25:45 We typically apply that positive thoughts 25:47 like don't fool yourself, it's, you know, 25:49 the end is coming, this type of stuff. 25:51 But this applies to negative thoughts too. 25:53 That's right. 25:54 And I realized, I can't rely on my mind. 25:56 I've got to rely on God's promises alone 26:00 that He still loves me. 26:01 Sometimes truth is even better than we think it is. 26:02 Sometimes it's worse. 26:05 In 2 Corinthians 10, you know, 26:06 we talked about breaking strongholds, how? 26:07 By taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." 26:11 That was another big text for me. 26:12 So for me, you know, 26:13 it's like when you start going into God's promises. 26:17 That's one of the ways that we can go 26:19 and we're not trusting our thoughts, 26:20 we're trusting God's. 26:21 We're not saying all our thoughts are 100% bad 26:23 or 100% good. 26:24 But we're taking them all to God 26:26 so that He can move into that. 26:28 And it's according to that verse 26:30 it's the obedience of Christ. 26:31 So it His obedience even. 26:32 And here, you've been teaching people 26:34 the Bible all these years, 26:35 but all of a sudden, it's more real to you. 26:36 I'm not saying it wasn't, but more than it's ever been. 26:39 Yeah, it was the biggest crisis in my life 26:41 and I was at the bottom. 26:42 I was going to ask that question. 26:44 I don't think I could have gone anymore. 26:46 And as Psalm 107 says, "They were at their wit's end." 26:49 And I got to the point where it was right on the edge. 26:52 I felt like I'm heading for a psych ward. 26:54 "But God, I'm going to hold on to You, 26:57 You got to bring me through this." 26:59 Something that started as a lifestyle issues 27:02 sounds like it ended up into a cognitive battle. 27:04 The spiritual. 27:06 It was cognitive, it was spiritual, 27:08 it was physically... 27:09 It's hand to hand combat with the enemy missile. 27:10 Right. 27:12 It's also a lesson in how really frail we are 27:13 and how dependent we are on our brain health. 27:15 Like we're physical bodies, our characters are housed, 27:18 or even our thought life is housed in a physical organ, 27:21 and when that physical organ deteriorates, 27:24 because of lack of sleep, or what lack of nutrition, 27:27 you know, we're not going to be able to even think clearly. 27:30 And you're very, I would say, 27:31 exceptionally intelligent person, 27:33 the fact that you are losing your grip 27:34 on your ability to think 27:36 means that your brain was really being compromised. 27:37 It's very scary. 27:38 And it just shows it can happen to anybody. 27:40 We're so excited. We're gonna... 27:42 Well, he gets out of the black hole, by the way, 27:44 but not during this segment. 27:46 During the next segment, we're going to hear that story. 27:48 And he's really taken us down the pit with him. 27:50 I feel really bad for him that he went through this. 27:54 But he's going to burst out into the light of day again. 27:57 And I hope you'll come with us on that journey. 27:59 Be with us during part two 28:01 of "Escaping from the black hole 28:03 of depression." |
Revised 2018-12-30