Participants:
Series Code: NOW
Program Code: NOW200023S
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00:15 This is 3ABN Now
00:17 with John and Rosemary Malkiewtcz. 00:21 Hello and welcome to 3ABN Now. 00:24 You know, I'm really glad 00:25 that we have viewers right across Australia, 00:28 right around the world, 00:30 even as far as Africa and England 00:32 and all those countries. 00:34 Cayman Islands and all those places. 00:35 Wherever this signal goes, 00:37 we want to give you a special welcome, 00:38 but especially 00:39 those in Australia who watch on VAST. 00:41 Hope you're enjoying these programs. 00:43 And today is a special program 00:45 and that it's a friend 00:47 that I've known for many, many years. 00:49 And he left this beautiful land of Australia 00:52 to go across to Africa. 00:53 And some people may say, 00:55 "Well, Africa is a beautiful country too." 00:56 And it is and he's going to be sharing... 00:59 Not a country, a continent. It's continent. 01:00 That's right. 01:02 And he'll be sharing with us his experience in Botswana, 01:05 which is north of South Africa. 01:07 His name is Barry Chapman and his family went there. 01:10 How many years ago, Barry? 01:12 We left in the July of 1989. 01:15 That's a few years ago. 01:16 Welcome to the program. 01:18 I'm looking forward 01:19 to what you're going to share with us 01:20 because I know it'll be very special. 01:22 And it's really good to have you here, Barry. 01:25 I've known you as long as John has. 01:28 But it's going on for quite a while now. 01:30 Isn't it terrible as we get older 01:31 and we realize how long ago things were. 01:35 I think I met you in 19... end of 1991. 01:38 That's right. Yes. 01:40 Yeah, in Perth that was. 01:42 In Perth, at Victoria Park Church Hall. 01:46 That's right. I remember that. 01:49 I'm going to read Matthew 25:37-40, 01:53 because you've chosen them for this program. 01:56 And these are very special verses of Jesus speaking. 02:03 Matthew 25:37-40, 02:07 "Then shall the righteous answer him, 02:09 saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? 02:14 Or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 02:17 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? 02:19 Or naked, and clothed thee? 02:22 Or when saw we thee sick, 02:24 or in prison, and came unto thee? 02:26 And the King shall answer and say unto them, 02:29 'Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it 02:33 unto one of the least of these my brethren, 02:35 ye have done it unto me.'" 02:38 They're beautiful words of commendation, aren't they? 02:40 Yeah, they're just fantastic. 02:42 So why do you really want that verse? 02:45 Well, to me, 02:48 I guess the important thing for me is that 02:51 when the question is asked, 02:55 why did you do these things? 02:57 Why did you do them? 02:58 And Jesus said, 03:00 Jesus said that, what did He say? 03:02 He said, "You did it unto Me." You did it to Me. 03:05 The least of these, you did it to Me. 03:07 So I think doing this sort of work 03:09 we're involved in as a missionary overseas, 03:11 you actually see people at the coalface, 03:14 you see where people are hurting. 03:15 And you ask yourself time and time again, 03:17 why am I doing this? 03:19 And then you go and sit down with them under a mango tree, 03:22 and you talk about their problems, 03:24 and their issues and their solutions there. 03:26 And so you see that, 03:28 that text resonated with me a lot, 03:30 as I actually was there 03:33 working with people that were really hurting. 03:36 And in that country, there's a lot of, 03:37 there's a lot of hunger, there's a lot of thirst, 03:39 even, you know, 03:40 just the common thing water is not readily available. 03:44 So really, you are at the coalface, aren't you? 03:46 You're meeting the circumstances of life 03:49 that you never experienced when you were young. 03:52 They are there, 03:53 so it's a really interesting experience. 03:55 I know that from being working in the mission field too, 03:58 how privileged we are here in Australia 04:01 or some of the other first world countries 04:04 that we have everything, we've got more, 04:07 but they don't have hardly anything. 04:08 But the thing is they still are happy. 04:10 Yeah. Many of them are still happy. 04:11 Yeah. 04:13 In fact, they couldn't be happier. 04:14 Yeah, that's right. 04:15 Good. 04:17 Now, we want to start 04:19 with a bit of an idea of who you are, 04:22 where you came from, your family. 04:25 Tell us about yourself, Barry? 04:26 Where did you grow up, Barry? 04:28 All right. 04:29 So we, well, 04:30 the Chapman Family 04:32 were originally they started in Western Australia. 04:34 That's where our line came from. 04:36 And so as a child, 04:37 I grew up on a dairy farm and a fruit farm 04:39 in a place called Donnybrook. 04:41 And so, and that was fantastic. 04:43 It was tough going. 04:45 But mom and dad had this vision 04:48 about being on a farm and doing that stuff. 04:51 And all the way through our childhood growing up, 04:53 they always talked to us kids 04:55 about what we could do for the Lord? 04:57 How we could serve people? 04:58 How we could go overseas and do great things? 05:01 So we were talked 05:03 to about opportunity right from children. 05:06 And so then as time passed, 05:08 I found a beautiful young woman 05:10 at a youth camp down in the Stirlings, 05:13 south of Perth near Albany. 05:16 And as time passed, then we eventually got married. 05:20 And so we lived in that area on the farm. 05:25 And that's where we started our life together 05:27 as a husband and wife. 05:28 I was gonna say that when we moved to Donnybrook... 05:31 Yes, okay. 05:33 We had no idea 05:35 that your family used to live 05:38 just near where we had bought a property 05:42 because we actually used to drive past the house 05:46 that you used to live in. 05:48 And we had no idea until a little while later, 05:51 you came to visit us there and said, 05:53 "Oh, I used to live down the road." 05:55 That was rather unique house, wasn't it? 05:57 There was round tower at the front. 05:58 That's right. 05:59 But what was unique, 06:01 there was an orchard all around it, too. 06:03 And there's something about Granny Smith apples 06:05 in the Chapman's seed, do you remember? 06:06 Okay, tell us? That's true. 06:08 So back in those early years, 06:11 the Chapman Family were further out up the Preston River 06:14 which is just past that area there. 06:16 And they brought 06:17 the Granny Smith apple into Australia. 06:19 They are some of the people that are involved 06:22 in bringing in and when it first came in, 06:24 it wasn't called Granny Smith. 06:26 It was called Chapman's Light. 06:28 And then the Granny Smith name took on a bit more, 06:32 you know, a bit more, 06:34 you know, a bit fancier than the Chapman Light name. 06:36 And you know what, 06:37 they make the best apple pie that you can ever get, 06:41 isn't it really? 06:42 So that apple became, 06:44 you know, renowned and it was exported to Europe 06:46 and right around the world. 06:48 It's a widely grown apple 06:49 right around the world these days. 06:51 And do you know that 06:52 I have Chapman's in my family too. 06:53 Do you really? 06:55 Wow, I better be careful what I say. 06:59 So, you know, 07:00 we have a picture of you and your family. 07:03 I'd like to just have a look at the moment. 07:06 And you can tell us about these people. 07:11 Okay, so you can see, 07:14 we'll start at the front, 07:16 there's, on the left is our daughter, 07:18 our oldest Natalie, 07:19 and my wife Bev, of course, and myself. 07:22 And then at the back, we've got Hayden, 07:25 he works in the aircraft industry, 07:27 Justin, who's a builder on the coast here. 07:30 And he was involved 07:31 in building this building, John. 07:32 That's right. That's correct. 07:34 He was a great help, I can tell you. 07:36 And then we have Olivia, and then Annette, 07:39 and they are both our adopted daughters 07:42 from Uganda who live here on the Central Coast as well. 07:45 That's an interesting thought there. 07:48 You went overseas to work 07:49 and you brought two children back. 07:52 That's very commendable, 07:53 because, you know, 07:55 we should open up our homes to whoever we can 07:57 and be a blessing and a help. 07:59 And, you know, Bev and Barry have done this. 08:01 And I've met those daughters of yours, 08:04 and they are lovely young ladies. 08:06 It's a pleasure to know them. 08:08 So when we went to Africa, 08:09 we had, we made it clear 08:10 that we would not bring any children back with us. 08:13 Is that right? 08:14 The plan, we would not bring anyone back. 08:16 We would go to do our work, 08:18 which is to work with the people 08:20 and identify the needs and work with them. 08:24 And we would not sort of be caught 08:27 in the trap of adopting children. 08:30 And that's how we went with that mindset. 08:32 That was to change. 08:34 Well, I want to say something, when I knew you, 08:36 I can remember visiting your home 08:38 when you lived in a place called Harvey. 08:42 And you developed a tourist attraction 08:44 there called The Big Orange. 08:47 That's right. Yeah. 08:49 And I remember being involved in that too. 08:51 But you also had some, 08:53 something there that was quite unique, 08:56 and came from Africa. 08:58 And I can remember visiting your home 09:00 and having two lion cubs. 09:03 They weren't really small. They were quite grown. 09:07 And they would come up on my lap. 09:09 And you don't know whether to, 09:11 you know, you're very cautious 09:12 and not knowing, but you raised. 09:14 Tell us a little bit about that 09:15 because that's an interesting story? 09:17 How did you get lions in your lounge room? 09:19 What happened was, 09:21 we had started this project called The Big Orange 09:23 for tourists as a tourist attraction. 09:26 And then we got to hear about this circus that had been, 09:30 all the animals were made redundant. 09:34 And they were closing the circus down 09:35 and they needed to put the animals somewhere. 09:37 So we said, 09:38 "Well, why don't you bring them down to our place. 09:40 We're just about to open as this tourist venture 09:43 and would be a bit of a draw card 09:44 to have some animals there for a while." 09:46 So they came down within the first, 09:48 at the end of the first week. 09:49 The animal trainer left and went to New Zealand 09:52 and never came back. 09:54 So we were left with monkeys, lions, donkeys, camels, 10:00 a whole buffaloes, a whole range of animals. 10:02 And so you had instant zoo? 10:04 We had an instant zoo. 10:06 And so we had to very quickly learn 10:08 how to manage these animals. 10:09 How did you feed them? 10:10 Well, that was actually quite easy 10:12 because we were in a dairy area. 10:14 And so the farmers would bring in calves 10:16 that have passed on but didn't make it. 10:19 And so we would give those to the lions. 10:21 Little did we know 10:23 that when you give a lion awful from a carcass, 10:27 it will trigger the female to become active. 10:30 And so, she will then become pregnant. 10:33 And so, I was in the markets 10:35 buying the fruit and veggies for the next few days. 10:38 At 4 o'clock in the morning, I get the phone call to say, 10:41 you better get home, we've got some baby cubs. 10:44 So the lioness had how many cubs? 10:47 She had three. 10:48 And so we could see that she was a first litter 10:51 so she didn't know what she was doing. 10:53 And so we were faced with the challenge. 10:55 So one died 10:56 and the other two were not going to live. 10:59 So I said to my wife, "But, Bev, what do you think?" 11:01 And she said, 11:03 "Well, let's take them and raise them." 11:05 So we did. 11:06 And we took them away from the mother. 11:08 And so we raised them in our home 11:10 and they stayed in our home for over two years. 11:12 How did you get them away from the mother? 11:15 Well, that was a challenge. I mean, it's a lion. 11:17 In the cage, in the big area, 11:19 we had an area that was designated 11:21 you could shut it off. 11:22 Yes. 11:24 And so we closed the adults away. 11:26 And then we took the babe, we didn't got the babies, 11:28 took them out, took them home. 11:29 At the same time we were raising those, 11:32 Bev was also raising some joeys, 11:34 some baby kangaroos. 11:36 So the kangaroos and the lions grew up together. 11:38 Is that right? 11:40 The lion and the lamb shall feed together. 11:43 The lion and the kangaroo laying down together. 11:44 Yeah. 11:45 so we had a big dog flap door. 11:47 So the lions would come and go inside the house. 11:50 And I remember the night you came. 11:51 Yeah, they came in. 11:53 If there's a clap of thunder or something, 11:55 they jump up and jump on their laps. 11:57 And so you had them for two years? 11:59 Well, it was about three years actually 12:01 'cause after a year or so, 12:03 18 months, so they got too big, 12:05 they can now stand up when I'm standing up, 12:07 they stand up and put the paws on my shoulders 12:09 and lick my hair. 12:11 And so I'd get in the cage with them 12:12 and talk to them and play with them. 12:14 And then one day I was in the cage with them 12:17 and some elderly people were there. 12:19 And the lady saw the lion licking me and doing whatever. 12:23 And the female was always a bit aggressive 12:25 but the male, 12:27 his name was Conte and Shower were their names. 12:29 And the male was passive, 12:31 but the female was a bit aggressive. 12:32 And this day, she pinned me against the wall 12:35 with her weight. 12:36 And I knew that 12:37 I was not winning this game. 12:39 So I told her sit. 12:40 So she immediately sat down at my feet. 12:43 But I knew that it was time. 12:45 But what did the lady said? 12:46 Well, she got a real scare. 12:49 She thought I was gonna get eaten I think. 12:51 So anyway, we, was a great thing to have, 12:55 and is a big draw card for many people. 12:56 So was that formal training helped you 12:59 when you went to Africa 13:01 or you stayed right away from the real ones? 13:03 No, we went to Africa, 13:05 we had nothing to do with wild lions. 13:06 Okay. 13:08 But it was fantastic experience. 13:09 Let's see the photo. So it's just beautiful. 13:12 There's two pictures there, 13:14 once Bev feeding one of them with a bottle of milk. 13:18 And the other one is you in the cage, is it? 13:20 Yeah, in the cage. 13:22 Playing with the lions. 13:23 On the Sabbath afternoon, 13:25 we put them in the car 13:26 and we take them down the beach. 13:28 You would have a lot of spectators running wild. 13:31 People would be fishing. 13:32 And they'd look, 13:33 the second take they wind their lineup 13:35 and then off they'd go 13:36 as we walked near the beach with the lions. 13:38 Which beaches were they? 13:39 They were over Myalup. Yeah. 13:41 That is, yeah. 13:42 That would have been 13:43 frightening for the people on the beach. 13:45 We're in Australia, not Africa. 13:48 Just tell me a little bit of the idea of going to Africa, 13:51 your wife and your family. 13:54 How did they feel about that? 13:55 Because I know, you know, kids have different ideas, 13:58 you know, you've taken away from their friends, 14:00 and how did... 14:01 Tell us how that, how the family was divided up 14:03 and how they went? 14:05 Well, just stepping back a little minute. 14:06 So when we applied for the position, 14:09 I think you might have been responsible 14:10 for some applications that came to you, John. 14:12 Yeah. 14:13 And so, well that sat on our fridge 14:15 for three months. 14:16 And eventually we said, 14:17 "Let's take them off the fridge." 14:19 So we took them off the fridge on this Sunday night 14:21 and Bev said, "She'd fill them in and get them send off." 14:23 That next day Monday, 14:25 we get a phone call from ADRA 14:27 inviting us to apply for a position with ADRA. 14:30 And so it was quite extraordinary. 14:31 It was like goosebumps all day, as the guy spoken. 14:37 Yeah, timing of it. 14:39 Well what happened to The Big Orange? 14:41 So eventually The Big Orange was sold. 14:43 And then we all, 14:45 I stayed on as a manager for a while 14:47 to train the new owner. 14:49 And that's when ADRA, 14:50 the position became available to go to Africa with ADRA. 14:53 So we had the dilemma of going with all our children 14:57 on or what to do. 14:59 So our oldest daughter Natalie, 15:01 she was just ready to go into Avondale. 15:03 And so... In college, yeah. 15:05 Yeah. 15:06 So it was very difficult to leave her behind. 15:09 And so, 15:11 it's one of the sacrifices that you, 15:14 probably the biggest sacrifice you make as a family, 15:18 leaving the child behind to go to the mission field. 15:20 And two of the... 15:21 the two boys went with you, right? 15:23 They went with us to Botswana. 15:24 So how did you? Were they excited? 15:26 You know, we've been out with the kids 15:28 and they're all excited to go with these, 15:30 your children were? 15:31 Yeah, they were excited. They're excited. 15:34 It was tough for Justin, our eldest boy, 15:36 he was now doing year 11 and 12 by correspondence. 15:38 Okay, yep. 15:40 So he found that really challenging. 15:42 He did well despite that, 15:45 but they got to experience a lot of things 15:47 that other children wouldn't, went to a lot of places. 15:50 And Hayden, the younger one, 15:52 he was, you know, 15:53 involved with the local people 15:55 so much in every sort of activity he could, 15:58 so, yeah, they, 16:01 there was some toughness about it. 16:02 But there was also, 16:04 their eyes were open wide into what goes on in the world. 16:08 I remember when we lived in Bangkok, 16:10 and we'd been in Nepal. 16:12 And James said to me one day, 16:15 you know, Mum, 16:17 you don't need very much to be able to live. 16:20 Back home we've got so much. 16:23 But here we don't have to have a lot. 16:24 And you do get, 16:26 the kids get to realize that, don't they? 16:28 Yeah, they do. 16:29 So what was your first impressions 16:30 when you went to spy out the land 16:32 or say spy out the land 16:33 because you went first to have a look? 16:35 Yeah. 16:36 What was your thoughts when you were there, 16:37 thinking, this is gonna be for me and my family? 16:39 What was coming on your mind? 16:41 It was a dry. 16:42 If you'd imagine the dry part of Australia... 16:44 Yes. 16:45 That was on the edge of the Kalahari Desert. 16:46 So that gives a ring to what it was like it, 16:49 grass, but dry grass and dry scrubs, 16:52 pickled bushes with big, long prickles. 16:54 And I was a bit unsure 16:57 about how we may grow vegetables 16:59 in such a dry place. 17:01 And so, we had a bit of a talk about it 17:04 with some local people and between Bev and myself. 17:07 And we decided we'd give it a shot. 17:09 Okay. 17:11 And so, I rang her while I was in Africa and said, 17:13 "I think we can make out of this. 17:15 What do you think?" 17:16 She said, "I'm ready." 17:18 So what were you told? What were you called to do? 17:20 So I was called to be the project manager 17:23 and the principal of setting up 17:25 the Barolong Institute of Agriculture. 17:27 So this is an agricultural training college 17:30 that was to work with mainly women and also men, 17:35 but people that were struggling, 17:36 people in that area eat a lot of meat, 17:38 they don't eat much in the way of vegetables. 17:40 And so there are lots of associated medical illnesses 17:43 associated with lack of greens in their diet. 17:47 So this was to teach them simply how to do it 17:51 in their home village situation. 17:53 Yeah, so you would take them step by step in growing things. 17:56 That's right. 17:58 So they would come in three, for four months. 17:59 That was a four month training program, 18:01 and then they would go off after the graduation. 18:06 And they would bring another batch of students in. 18:08 Well, we've got a sign for your place 18:13 where you were, you went. 18:14 Baralong, is it? 18:15 Barolong Institute of Agriculture. 18:17 So this project was funded by the Australian Government, 18:20 about 6 or 700,000 Australian dollars, 18:23 something like that. 18:24 And ADRA was, 18:26 Adventist Development and Relief Agency, 18:28 was engaged to be the implementer. 18:30 So we connected with the government of Botswana, 18:33 and also the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the area. 18:37 And so, we developed a group of us work, working team. 18:42 And then I led the team 18:44 as we went to start this program. 18:46 Because you're in an area now where it's totally, 18:49 I know, you're heavily involved 18:50 in the Australian agricultural scene. 18:53 Now you're in another place. 18:55 And so the techniques 18:56 that you would have learnt in Australia 18:59 don't really apply there. 19:00 Do they in the terms of what we do here? 19:02 No, that's right. 19:04 Of course, horticultural principles are the same. 19:07 Plants are like us, they need food. 19:09 So if you feed and water them, they will grow well, 19:12 if they've got the warmth. 19:13 And, of course, they're in the Kalahari Desert, 19:15 it would be warm, it's mostly. 19:18 So... 19:19 Is it consistent weather through the year 19:20 or is it a bit like is seasonal here like? 19:22 They get a summer rainfall and a dry winter. 19:26 So it can get quite cold 19:28 when you get the cold winds off the southern states of Africa, 19:33 southern part of Africa, 19:35 but in terms of what we are trying to do, 19:40 we had no mechanization, so all was hand done. 19:44 Yes. 19:45 We didn't even have horses and fancy things like that. 19:49 So we were... Just human power. 19:51 It was human power, that's all it was. 19:52 So when we went there, 19:56 I wasn't sure 19:57 how it was all going to work out. 20:00 But I thought we'd leave it up to the Lord. 20:01 And we'll just make this thing do the best we can. 20:04 And I suppose you went there and you had a wonderful, 20:08 very, very luxurious home to live in, 20:10 so that you would be able to do the work? 20:13 Would have been lovely, wouldn't it? 20:14 So fortunately, we were very, 20:16 we were blessed in that 20:17 we were given a caravan behind a little, 20:21 they call it a bakkie there or ute. 20:23 And so we drove that into the block, the bush. 20:26 There it is. 20:28 Yeah, that's the caravan. 20:29 We drove that in, and then we, 20:32 we lived in that for three months. 20:34 So there was nothing on site. 20:36 And so, 20:38 we had the whole task of designing and building 20:42 and getting the whole project going. 20:44 So how was the land allocated for this project? 20:46 Was that the Botswana government? 20:48 Yes. So it was tribal land. 20:51 Was owned by the tribe. 20:52 I think it's about 125 hectares, 20:53 I think they'd given to us, 20:55 it was right near 20:56 a little village called Pitsani, 20:58 which is down in the southern part 21:00 of Botswana just near Lobatse. 21:02 And, of course, 21:03 the Adventist Church has had a presence 21:05 at big hospital at Kanye, 21:06 which wasn't far away either. 21:08 So we were going into an area 21:11 where there weren't many Adventists, 21:13 but lot of Christians and a lot of people 21:15 that were keen to learn more about agriculture. 21:20 Learn more about eating vegetables. 21:22 Yes, that's right. 21:23 So you had to live in this caravan. 21:26 Where were you getting your water 21:27 and where were you getting your food 21:28 because you hadn't got the gardens going yet? 21:30 What were you doing to survive? 21:32 So what had happened was 21:34 when I first went there for the first trip, 21:36 we organized with a contractor to put a bore down. 21:39 Okay. 21:40 So when we arrived, 21:41 there was a bore that had a pump on it 21:44 there because it's dry country, the bore was 500 meters deep. 21:48 Wow, that's half a kilometer. 21:50 It's a long way down. 21:51 So then we had to run out, the water came up a fair way. 21:56 So we only had to avail pump down 21:57 about 150 meters. 21:59 And then we had a generator 22:01 on top making, nothing worked. 22:03 So there it is. 22:04 That's them putting the bore down. 22:06 That's it. 22:07 So you can see how dry the country is. 22:09 Yes. 22:10 And you were going to grow vegetables? 22:12 Yeah. 22:13 And then people would think you'd have to be mad. 22:15 Well, I wasn't sure either. 22:20 But we pressed on. 22:21 And we got there towards the end of July. 22:27 And so then we employed about 30 something people, 22:32 local men and women to come. 22:35 And so we made all the bricks on site, 22:37 we got sand and cement, 22:39 and made all the bricks to build the buildings. 22:42 And we moved into our house on the 6th of October. 22:47 So, and then by that stage, we had built the sheds, 22:51 the accommodation for the students 22:53 as well as the new classroom block. 22:55 So you were busy? Yeah. 22:57 Well, I wasn't so busy, the others were all busy. 22:58 I just went around and talked to them. 23:00 So was your wife happy with a new home and, 23:03 you know, I mean, 23:05 we got an idea what a house is like. 23:07 After a caravan. 23:09 Yeah, well, she would be very happy, 23:10 I know, I realize that. 23:11 But, you know, 23:13 in terms of facilities they have in there, 23:14 stove, and all those things. 23:17 How they compare with what she was used to here? 23:20 It was actually quite a nice house, 23:21 was actually quite good. 23:23 We were blessed in that, we were able to find tradesmen 23:26 that were pretty hands on and pretty organized. 23:30 And so it was a small, modest home, 23:34 but it was very functional. 23:36 One of the important points 23:38 to make is that 23:39 if families are thinking of doing this type of thing, 23:44 there needs to be a huge commitment 23:47 from your wife or the mother of the children. 23:52 If she... 23:53 What's that as the saying goes, 23:55 "If mama ain't happy, nobody's happy." 23:57 So, but I was blessed in that, 24:01 Bev was so dedicated to getting behind the program, 24:07 and making a difference in people's lives. 24:09 And she had the vision. 24:10 She had that vision to do it. 24:12 And so, although we talk about hardships, 24:15 we talk about those things. 24:16 She was able to, you know, 24:19 address what she was there to do and she did. 24:22 She adapted to it. Yes. 24:23 And that's what really take... 24:25 That's what really where you've to come with thinking. 24:27 You don't want to take the Western world there, 24:29 you got to adapt to, 24:31 to be there and to be an influence 24:32 and a blessing to others, you know, 24:33 that's an important thing. 24:35 Or one day to show you how tough it's there, 24:39 is Bev was doing the washing. 24:42 And she had a sense that something wasn't right. 24:44 And so, we checked it out and there's a black mamba 24:47 under the little washing machine. 24:49 Oh, no! 24:50 Those of you who know what black mamba is. 24:52 It's one of the most deadly snakes in Africa. 24:54 And so, we took the lid off and we killed the snake. 24:57 So that's the sort of things you are faced 24:59 with in these situations, 25:02 mostly you wouldn't come across that in Australia. 25:04 I thought she might have said there's a lion in the laundry. 25:08 We've got a photo, 25:10 an aerial photo or two of them of the area 25:13 where you were working, and it's showing the buildings. 25:15 And then down this on the right hand corner, 25:18 you can see a big tank, and more of the gardens. 25:22 That's, that seems very different to the pictures 25:24 we saw when you first arrive there? 25:27 When you're putting in the water. 25:28 Water, I mean, that's just, that's development. 25:30 That's called development. 25:31 So which is your house? 25:33 So the one at the top in the picture on the left, 25:35 right up at top, see the green tanks? 25:37 Yes. 25:38 That's the shed, and the girls' dormitory 25:40 and then ours is the next house over. 25:41 Okay. 25:42 Classroom on the right over there, 25:44 and down here another staff housing. 25:45 How many buildings did you put up there? 25:46 I think there's about 10 or 12 eventually. 25:49 But in that first six month period, 25:51 because we had to get everything built, 25:52 and write the curriculum, 25:54 select the teachers and be operating by January 25:56 for the first intake of students. 25:58 And you only got there in July? 25:59 And we've got there at the end of July. 26:00 That's right. End of July. 26:02 So, Barry, we talked about being dry there. 26:03 You said they had wet season in January, 26:05 do they receive a lot of rain? 26:08 Yeah, pretty good, I'd say 400 mil. 26:10 Four hundred mil. Three hundred mil, yeah. 26:12 So that last picture there was taken about November. 26:18 So by the November, 26:20 we already had established gardens. 26:21 We already had that game, 26:23 we had about five acres of gardens producing 26:24 before the students got there. 26:26 We had to have food ready to feed the students 26:28 when they arrived. 26:30 And so we got busy and got the gardens done. 26:33 And we set the gardens out in a way, 26:35 you could see that layout on that photo, 26:37 how the gardens were set out 26:39 in what we call a square meter principle. 26:42 So each garden bed was 10 meters long. 26:43 Yes. 26:45 And so, then each student was given six or eight beds. 26:48 And then they had to manage those beds 26:50 through the training course. 26:52 And they were marked according to what they did. 26:55 If one plant died, they'd lose points. 26:57 And so it was... 26:58 So there was a very big incentive 27:00 to keep them alive. 27:02 Tender loving care for. 27:04 The program start at six in the morning, 27:06 and they'd be out in the gardens working. 27:08 And then we'd have worship and normal things. 27:11 And then we'd have two or three hours of theory 27:14 of going through the theory of health, 27:17 and also agriculture. 27:18 And pests? Yep. 27:20 And then we'll be back in the gardens 27:22 in the afternoon again. 27:23 So what sort of pests they have there? 27:25 Well being, you know, it was open country. 27:28 So we had everything, 27:29 from grasshoppers to lots of, lots of things. 27:33 So we just had to be sensible, 27:35 we didn't overdo the chemical use, 27:37 was more a natural way of controlling things. 27:41 We do that as often as we could. 27:42 So we would use things like chilies 27:45 mixed with water to control pests on the plants 27:48 like thrips and these sort of pests. 27:51 So we stayed away from pesticides 27:53 where we could 27:54 because once you use a lot of pesticides, 27:57 you will then bring other problems. 27:59 So if you could stay as natural as you can, 28:02 and you do, we grew a lot of greens there, 28:05 a lot of spinach and a lot of thing called rape, 28:07 which we call it different things over here, 28:10 kale and different names like that we give it. 28:12 So that was very well sought after by many people. 28:15 We'd take truckloads of it to town, 28:17 and sell it in bundles. 28:19 So maintaining was a big thing. Yeah. 28:23 And you're now introducing the vegetables to that. 28:27 And so you get a healthier person. 28:29 That's right. 28:30 So did you see the change 28:32 in those who were coming there 28:33 in their way of thinking about, you know, the food they eat? 28:36 Yes, we did. We did. 28:37 We saw people adapting and adopting the ideas 28:44 of what we were promoting and talking about. 28:46 So this is, 28:47 this course had a real practical application. 28:50 It was taking people where they are 28:53 to actually make a difference to their lives. 28:56 And so we had many women come in that 28:58 would go home to the village situation 29:00 and duplicate what they had been taught. 29:02 And they were delighted to be able to learn 29:05 how to grow simple things like cabbages and... 29:08 Feed themselves and make money to drew an income. 29:12 And did you teach them how to cook it as well? 29:14 Yes, yeah, actually 29:15 Bev would run cooking classes there 29:18 and that was received very well. 29:21 And that was simple cooking classes, 29:23 not like the ones you get in Western societies. 29:25 That's right. 29:26 So that, they have, 29:27 they grow a bit of sorghum in the area. 29:29 Okay. 29:30 So they would crush the sorghum up 29:31 and make mealie meal like a what we call a porridge 29:34 and they had that once or twice a day. 29:37 And so that's would be a staple in that part of Africa. 29:41 And so, then they have greens with that 29:43 and a bit of their meat that they had was, 29:45 then made it a more complete diet. 29:47 Excellent. Very good. 29:49 Now we've got some photos. 29:52 One of them I think, this one here is quite amazing. 29:56 This, they look like the ladies are carrying 29:59 big watering jugs on their heads. 30:01 Is that? 30:02 Is that what they are, water cans? 30:03 Yes, they are. 30:05 So we made it really early on 30:07 that we would need 30:08 to be able to get the students to duplicate 30:10 what they would do when they went home. 30:12 I think it's very important. Yes. 30:14 The garden hoses were banned, John. 30:16 No one could have a garden hose. 30:18 And so these folk would be given a watering can 30:22 or a bucket. 30:23 And they had to carry it 30:25 as if they were carrying it from home, 30:26 because a lot of them 30:28 would just have a hand pump in the village, 30:29 they have to go to the hand pump, 30:30 get a bucket of water, 30:32 bring it back and put on the cabbages. 30:33 So I said, 30:34 that's what you got to do every day that you're here. 30:36 And so, 30:38 we didn't try to do get them to think about things 30:41 that they would have to go and buy like a hose, 30:43 or something different like that. 30:45 So we just assimilated with the local situation. 30:49 That's right. And that's very, very good. 30:51 Because it's not you're teaching them 30:53 to do something that they won't be doing at home. 30:55 That's right. 30:56 Because when they get home, 30:58 they'd say, "This is too hard." 30:59 That's right. 31:00 But if they've been taught exactly 31:02 how they would have to do it at home, 31:03 it just becomes second nature. 31:05 That's how you do it. 31:06 And it was really interesting to see 31:07 because we had these tanks set out in the garden. 31:10 So we would have the tanks filled with water. 31:12 Then we get a bag of poultry manure 31:15 and tie it to the tanks. 31:18 And then... It's like a trough. 31:20 You can see it in the middle there. 31:22 So that's a shot of the gardens 31:23 that's after the students been going. 31:25 And it was beautiful, it was. 31:27 And so, it was just, 31:29 there's just so many things that are producing. 31:31 So they would go and dip their bucket in there. 31:33 And they'd be getting like a liquid fertilizer 31:35 and putting that on their gardens. 31:37 And so, was just amazing 31:39 the production that we're able to achieve. 31:41 So where did you get the seedlings? 31:42 Did they, did you propagate it? 31:44 We had our own nursery we'd make them from, 31:46 so the students had to grow them from seed. 31:48 So we'd give them 70 bags of seed, 31:50 or 70 containers of seed 31:52 and say, this is your assignment. 31:54 Here's the onion seed, the cabbage seed, 31:56 the broccoli seed, the beetroot seed, whatever, 31:59 that we assigned to them, 32:01 you've got to, they'll grow the seedlings. 32:02 And then from the seedlings, 32:04 you got to then get it to your nursery 32:05 to your garden plot. 32:06 Best way to learn. 32:08 And then they have to then market them. 32:10 So they're involved in the marketing as well. 32:13 So they can make money for their family? 32:15 So this program was designed on a program out of Zimbabwe 32:18 that had been started there many years before 32:20 that had been very successful. 32:22 And so we donated, applicable to Botswana, 32:25 which was actually a bit tougher than Zimbabwe. 32:28 And it went very well, it was, some of the students, 32:32 their knowledge just exploded, 32:35 because they're hungry like a sponge, 32:37 they just sapped up the information. 32:39 So some of these students were, after four months, 32:43 had incredible knowledge. 32:45 And the Minister of Agriculture realized 32:48 that these students had picked up 32:50 a lot of knowledge. 32:51 So he employed the four or five best students 32:54 every time there was a graduation, 32:55 to go and work 32:57 with the Ministry of Agriculture. 32:58 It was quite amazing. 32:59 And many of the other students went to other projects, 33:02 work for other organizations. 33:04 And so it created employment as for many 33:07 as well as those that wanted to go back home. 33:10 They had the knowledge now to actually do things at home. 33:13 And to have a local, produce a local income. 33:19 So that five acres, 33:21 how many students in an intake did you 33:22 or were you able to take in? 33:24 Yeah, we were between 30 and 45. 33:27 That's a big area, five acres into that. 33:29 Yeah, that is. It is too. 33:30 That is a big area. Yeah. 33:32 I would like to have just looking at the photo 33:35 with all the gardens and the water trough. 33:36 I'd like to have had the garden 33:38 right by the water trough. 33:40 But do you saw a big round tank there? 33:42 Well, that held 200,000 liters. 33:45 And we made that, so that when in the dry season, 33:50 we could pump that full of water. 33:52 And we could buffer our needs for water to run the place. 33:56 And here are some of the students 33:58 with what they grew. 34:00 That's the big tank at the back there. 34:02 And so that was eight foot high 34:03 those, that's 2.4 meter inside the walls, 34:05 and there are three bricks thick. 34:07 So it was a big tank. 34:08 And the local men 34:10 that made it were just fantastic, 34:11 they're just fantastic. 34:13 But the students here, 34:14 that's the sort of stuff the cabbages and the greens 34:16 that we would grow. 34:17 One there with the big pile of spinach? 34:18 Yep. 34:20 So that's typical of how we would come out 34:22 in the garden with the students 34:23 and we would teach them 34:25 about how the nutrients are reacting, 34:27 how we do pest control. 34:29 We teach them about all the things 34:30 about horticulture and plants, 34:32 how you actually control and manage to grow good food. 34:37 And so in the same way 34:38 that we need to have a balanced diet. 34:41 A plant needs a balanced diet. 34:43 So we gave them all the theory as well as the practical 34:47 in delivering those things. 34:48 And you taught them nutrition as well 34:50 and why they need to eat these types of things. 34:53 That was all part of the health part. 34:55 So there are two parts. 34:56 It was the agricultural side and there was the health side. 34:59 So in graduation, they would get the certificate, 35:02 and it would show the mark they got 35:04 for either health or for agriculture. 35:06 And so it was good for the government 35:08 to take some of these young people on? 35:11 It was fantastic. 35:13 Because they had a double grounding 35:17 at the nutrition as well as the agricultural side, 35:19 so they would be a big benefit. 35:21 But what age group would normally come? 35:23 Well, there'd be anywhere from 16 to in their 40s. 35:27 So there could be a full range. 35:29 So at the same time this was happening, 35:31 AIDS were starting to take off in Botswana, 35:36 right across Africa, actually. 35:37 And so the AIDS thing was also on everybody's lips. 35:42 And so that was another part of life that we would, 35:45 we were teaching that in the classroom as well. 35:49 And in time, 35:50 some of our students did die from AIDS 35:52 after, afterwards, we found that out. 35:55 And so, AIDS is, is no respecter of persons, 35:58 it's, if you participate in activities 36:01 that lead to AIDS, infection, you will, it'll happen. 36:06 And you'll die, but so then, 36:09 and leads to a lot of change 36:11 in the demographic of the population? 36:13 That's right. 36:14 And so you, 36:15 you lose a lot of people in that 20 to 45 year age group 36:21 will actually pass away. 36:23 And so we saw that later on in Uganda, 36:25 when we went there 36:26 that a lot of folk really struggled with that. 36:30 But Botswana is a really good country, 36:35 the people are beautiful people. 36:37 And the way they do their life 36:40 is a bit different to some other places. 36:42 And so we need to respect culture 36:45 and the way they do their business, 36:47 but then you throw AIDS into the middle of that. 36:49 You have to be honest and frank and fair with people 36:52 and tell them that this is what needs to happen 36:55 if you want to prevent yourself from those things. 36:57 I think that's right. 36:59 You know, we saw the fields of the gardens 37:03 that you had there, but what else? 37:05 What other projects or what other activities 37:07 you get involved in at this place? 37:09 You had chickens, didn't you? 37:10 Yeah, we, we could see that there was a need to demonstrate 37:16 some modern techniques in how to grow dial chickens. 37:20 And so we got busy 37:23 and organized poultry operation, 37:27 and we would grow meat chickens. 37:30 And they were in five to six weeks, 37:32 they were ready for sale. 37:35 And so we would, 37:37 it was, it's a difficult thing 37:39 in that we had to bring food from South Africa 37:42 to actually support that little industry, 37:45 because a lot of those things at that stage 37:47 weren't available locally, 37:48 but later on they did become available. 37:50 But it was a bit tough initially. 37:53 We were able to get sorghum locally. 37:55 But to get the balance that you need for chickens 37:58 to get the production levels up, 38:01 you have to be careful. 38:02 We also got involved with a small dairy. 38:06 Okay. 38:08 So being a tough environment there, 38:13 was very hard. 38:14 You can see how dry it is. 38:16 Look where the cows are. 38:17 So they were Friesian cows, 38:19 and so that produce a bit of milk 38:21 and we would use the milk for the students. 38:24 And the chickens would go from those we've got, 38:27 they are about two weeks old. 38:29 And so then that'd be fully grown 38:31 in five or six weeks. 38:33 Without hormones? 38:34 There was no hormones. 38:36 And so, they're in a building, 38:38 you sign them all in the building? 38:40 We had them locked up in an area. 38:43 You've really got to do that to manage it well, 38:47 because you've got heat in the summer. 38:49 And so then you've got to try and manage it. 38:52 Anyone that's worked with poultry 38:54 knows the challenges. 38:56 I know. 38:58 My question is, 38:59 what sort of meat type did they usually have, 39:02 was chicken part of that 39:04 or is this something you're introducing? 39:05 It would have been part of it, 39:06 but Botswana is one of the largest producers of cattle. 39:10 So they produce 39:11 an enormous amount of cattle in Botswana. 39:13 They've got big abattoirs and some big export business. 39:16 So it amaze me that out in that dry country, 39:19 out in the Kalahari Desert 39:20 and all the southern part of Botswana, 39:22 there's a lots of cattle. 39:25 They had the massive abattoirs there in Lobatse really. 39:29 They're very hardy? 39:31 Yeah, they are. 39:33 It's a bit like Northern Australia. 39:34 That's what I was gonna say. 39:36 It's very hot and dry. 39:37 But when the rain comes, 39:38 everything is lush and green 39:40 and can sustain a lot of animals. 39:42 Yeah. 39:43 So, Barry, after you'd been there 39:45 for how long, a year, and you saw, 39:49 had it been successful, 39:50 hadn't that within the first year. 39:52 Were you able to make the payments 39:55 that you required to make from what you were producing? 39:58 That was the plan that had to be sustained 40:00 by its own industry, were you able to do that? 40:04 It's very tough to try and produce food 40:09 in that environment, 40:10 especially with water so deep. 40:12 So it was hard to, 40:14 was quite expensive to pump the water. 40:16 Okay, so what did you use the pump? 40:18 We had a big generator 40:20 and then submersible pumps off that. 40:21 Okay. 40:22 And also we had 40:24 some of those mono pumps as well. 40:25 So we put in, 40:26 I think in the end we put in three bores 40:28 and so to try and maximize the water. 40:31 And it was tough, but we did, 40:37 we did manage to sell a lot of veggies. 40:39 So we had shops like Woolworths in Gaborone, 40:43 in the main center, the main city, 40:47 where we would take veggies once or twice a week, 40:49 and deliver them there. 40:51 And then we'd go to other places 40:52 with the truck and sell 40:53 and we'd sell at the farm gate. 40:55 So our income was actually pretty high. 40:58 And so we also worked, 41:00 we understood the finances of many students. 41:04 So some students didn't have the money to come. 41:07 So we would pay them five pula a day, 41:10 five pula, that's about an hour that is in money today, 41:14 it would probably be about $10 Australian 41:17 for a day's work in the garden, 41:20 if they worked on a Sunday, for example, 41:22 so we would pay them, 41:24 and that would go off their fees. 41:25 And so we enabled them to be able to pay their fees. 41:29 That's a good principle that works too by the way. 41:31 A lot of places do that. 41:33 When you did, you know, 41:35 you must have done an analysis of the water 41:37 when you brought it up for 500. 41:38 What was it like? 41:40 It was pretty good. It was surprising. 41:41 So we were worried about salt. 41:42 That was the thing that we were concerned about. 41:45 But the salt was, it levels were good. 41:48 And other things like magnesium 41:49 and some of these other levels 41:51 were very workable and quite good. 41:53 So if you've got good minor elements 41:55 or trace elements in your water, 41:57 that's a plus because the vegetables need that. 42:01 And so manganese and zinc and iron, if all these things, 42:04 if those levels are reasonable, it's good. 42:07 So the pH was also okay. 42:10 And so the water was surprisingly good. 42:12 We were able to drink it, and Bev was able to wash in it. 42:15 And so it wasn't difficult at all. 42:17 So we're very blessed with that. 42:20 So years gone on, what was Bev thoughts? 42:22 I know you must have been talking. 42:23 She wasn't saying, it's time to go home, Barry? 42:26 No, she was. 42:29 You know, in hindsight, talking about it, 42:31 since we're back in Australia, 42:33 and we settled back here a long time ago. 42:35 Looking back, those years that we were there in Botswana, 42:39 she had a lot of reaction with the students, 42:44 interaction with the students on a regular basis, 42:46 more so than what we would later on 42:48 moving to other places. 42:49 And so she really did enjoy that opportunity to mix in. 42:53 It was a big deal, 42:54 leaving our daughter back in Australia. 42:57 We had been a family orientated group 43:00 and that we'd mix with other family. 43:02 And now we're on our own in a strange country. 43:05 So it was not simple, was not simple honestly. 43:08 So there were no other national in like yourselves 43:11 there or you were the only expatriates or? 43:13 Well, what happened was we were blessed in that, 43:16 there were three, four Australians 43:18 came out as volunteers. 43:20 So I could see early on in the project 43:22 that there's no way 43:24 that I can make this happen by January. 43:25 We got there in the July, remember. 43:27 So I contacted a few friends. 43:29 And so we had an electrician, a plumber, and a welder 43:33 volunteered to come out. 43:35 And those guys came and also my dad came. 43:38 And they came 43:39 and they stayed there for a while, 43:41 one stayed for three months, 43:42 others stayed for just a month or so. 43:44 And so we got a real kick-start on with the project. 43:47 So that helped us 43:48 and then the local people came in 43:50 and supported that. 43:52 And so I think we had, 43:54 I can't remember now 43:55 but about 40, 000 bags of cement we had 43:57 and they're all delivered as single bags of cement. 44:00 And there's no mixing trucks or anything like that, 44:04 was all hand mixed. 44:06 And so it all had to be done by hand. 44:07 And so you needed a team of people to do that. 44:11 So I remember one night we were in bed, 44:13 and we got a call at about two in the morning. 44:18 And it was the head man from the village 44:20 came and he said listen, 44:21 there's been a death in the village, 44:23 out in the village. 44:25 We've got to dig this place 44:30 to bury him, the grave, 44:32 and we can't get through, solid rock. 44:35 Can you come and help us or can you help us in some way 44:37 so you get really unusual requests. 44:40 So we gave him sledgehammer and a few other things 44:42 and so off they went and they dug the grave. 44:45 And under this, under their traditional views, 44:50 it has to be done before the sun comes up. 44:52 And so I think they just made it. 44:57 I remember being involved in a funeral in Nepal. 45:03 One of our old church members had died in the hospital. 45:07 And in Nepal, 45:09 everybody's cremated because the Hindu cremation 45:13 and the Christian say we're not being cremated, 45:15 because that's what the Hindus do, 45:17 we will be buried. 45:19 But the Hindu government would, 45:20 there was only one place 45:22 where they would allow Christians to be buried. 45:24 Because you contaminate the ground, you know, 45:27 you violate the ground, and you can't buy a coffin. 45:32 So in the middle of the night, 45:33 John and I and few other people 45:36 we're in the hospital building 45:39 a coffin 'cause there wasn't one. 45:42 And yeah, 45:43 so we had to do the coffin and they had to put the coffin 45:47 on the back of the ute the next day at the hospital, 45:50 I had to cover it over and not let anyone see 45:52 it was a coffin, 45:53 because the people would be up in arms 45:55 to see a coffin going through the streets. 45:57 So it was, yeah, all quite difficult. 45:59 But I'd never made a coffin before 46:01 and I don't think John had either. 46:03 It was quite interesting, but you're called on. 46:06 Yeah, that's right. 46:07 And at extraordinary times too, extraordinary times. 46:10 And it had to be lined. 46:12 So some of the Nepalis went often found fabric 46:15 to lawn it all with. 46:16 Cotton wool and all that sort of stuff. 46:17 Yeah. 46:19 Another thing that happened while we were there, 46:20 that in that second year, we were there, 46:22 that Bev got involved in and our family got involved in. 46:26 The ADRA team had asked us if we would go to Zambia, 46:31 and start a new project and go to Caprivi Strip. 46:35 There's a little narrow strip of land 46:37 between Botswana and Zambia, 46:41 that's called Caprivi Strip, 46:42 that's part of Namibia actually. 46:44 And so these two projects 46:46 actually took us away some time. 46:47 So we went into Zambia. 46:50 And I remember when we crossed the border, 46:52 I went across the river, and then went to the customs. 46:56 We had to go through customs and get all this stuff 46:58 because I was taking to put this ram pump 47:01 in the river up there in Chimbambwe. 47:03 Anyway this man came along, 47:05 and he wanted to do a deal with money. 47:07 And exchange money on the black market. 47:10 So Bev thought, this is good, we'll do this. 47:11 So she did it. 47:14 And then when we got up the road, 47:16 a couple of kilometers, 47:17 she counted the money 47:18 and realized that she'd been diddled. 47:20 Yes. 47:21 So there are things that happen. 47:23 So you've just got to be so sharp 47:24 about how you do stuff like that. 47:25 It was happening in Bali to everybody. 47:28 Yeah. 47:30 So, you know, I was thinking of Bev, 47:32 you know, we've talked to other people 47:34 who have gone out like you and your wife, 47:36 and the wife becomes the nurse, the doctor. 47:39 Did Bev have to do that, 47:40 you know, if someone hurt themselves, 47:42 they come to see the memsahib or white nurse. 47:46 It happened a couple of times 47:48 at Chimbambwe where we went to Zambia 47:49 to help with signing up project there. 47:51 One Friday afternoon, 47:53 this lady came along and her arm had all swollen up. 47:55 And it was just like a balloon, was puffed right up. 47:58 And she said, 48:00 "You white woman, you know what to do, 48:03 you know medicine." 48:05 And Bev said, 48:06 "No, I don't know anything what to do." 48:07 And so, anyway, 48:11 we took her aside and they've said, 48:13 "Let's wrap her arm up with cabbage leaves, 48:17 and with a paper towel, 48:20 and just try and let it settle." 48:23 So we did, 48:25 and we thought should we did in the morning 48:26 because she had been bitten by a puff adder. 48:29 And the puff adder had penetrated 48:32 and the poison made it swell up. 48:34 She had been to the witch doctor already. 48:36 The witch doctor couldn't do anything, of course. 48:38 And so here was Bev trying to administer to this woman. 48:41 We had no medication. 48:43 And so there's nothing we could do. 48:45 So we got these cabbage leaves and put it on. 48:47 And so as you know, 48:48 cabbage leaves will draw stuff out. 48:51 Going to Sabbath school the next morning to church, 48:52 the next day we expected that to hear the news 48:55 that this lady have passed away in the night. 48:57 And here she is sitting in the front seat in the church 49:00 happily singing away. 49:01 And we just amazed 49:03 how God just enabled that clear thinking 49:08 to actually perform a miracle just like that. 49:10 Now, you mentioned, 49:12 you're obviously out in this place. 49:13 When you started there with a caravan, 49:15 there's no church there, is it? 49:16 No. 49:18 You said there were a few Adventists 49:19 coming to do the agricultural courses. 49:21 So what did you do with your family 49:23 on the Sabbath out there in? 49:26 So we would run the normal church program 49:30 of three hymns and a prayer and Sabbath School lesson 49:34 we'd do that every week. 49:35 And so the students would all participate, 49:38 it was not a forced thing. 49:39 They were given the option to go to town or to stay. 49:43 I think most of them 98% of the time stayed there. 49:47 And so they were involved 49:49 in hearing messages and stories from the Bible 49:53 and stories about life and stuff like that. 49:56 And so, yeah, that was a great time to share. 49:59 So who did the preaching? 50:01 Well, I did a fair bit of it. 50:02 And also some others were roped into it as well, 50:05 some people that we knew of around the area, 50:08 there weren't too many of them, but... 50:10 So you didn't become the weekly pastor? 50:11 Yeah. 50:13 So our children, two boys that were there. 50:15 They were involved in the program, 50:17 like we got them involved with best that we could. 50:19 So how did they assimilate with the other kids 50:21 or did they, you know? 50:23 Well, you said that Hayden did well. 50:24 Yeah, Hayden did very well. 50:26 It was harder for Justin 50:27 because he was under pressure to study. 50:28 But he connected 50:30 and his connection was in other ways. 50:33 So like, he got a bit involved in photography 50:35 and stuff like that. 50:37 So we went to Victoria Falls about five times. 50:40 And we went, 50:41 took time to go 50:42 and have a look at some of the animals in the wild 50:44 and stuff like that, 50:45 so got to experience different things. 50:47 So, yeah, what sort of wild animals were there 50:49 in the vicinity? 50:51 You had anything that affected your gardens? 50:53 Yeah, there were, there were some, 50:55 there were some deer that small gazelle, 50:58 these sort of things that would come in and eat and other, 51:02 guinea fowl and things that would eat all the maize 51:05 and stuff like that. 51:06 So there were no big nasty animals there. 51:08 Oh, that's good. 51:09 I was thinking about... No buffaloes, no lions. 51:11 No leopards. 51:12 Yeah, that would make a little bit 51:14 more interesting story, wouldn't it? 51:15 But, so you both survived there. 51:19 And you did accomplish 51:21 what you went there to do, is that right? 51:22 Yeah. 51:24 So at the end of two years, 51:25 the place, we had money in the bank, 51:28 and we had appointed people to take over the leadership, 51:31 they were nationals. 51:32 Yes. 51:34 And so they did that. 51:35 So they took over 51:36 and we were asked to go on another assignment. 51:38 That was part 51:39 of the humanitarian work of ADRA in training people 51:41 then to take over and continue. 51:43 That's right. That's a really good story. 51:45 It's like, they say, 51:48 "Don't feed the person fish, teach him to fish. 51:52 Give him the fishing line." 51:53 That's right. 51:54 And that's basically 51:56 what was being done in that project. 51:57 You weren't just growing the food 51:59 to give to the people, 52:01 you were teaching them to grow the food for themselves 52:03 and to even have an income from it. 52:05 That's right. That's very interesting. 52:07 Because just the other day, I got on Google, 52:10 and had a look at Google Maps to actually see 52:13 what has happened to this place, 52:14 has it gone back to desert? 52:16 What's actually going on there? 52:17 Because when we went there, 52:20 the Minister for Agriculture told us, 52:22 Barry, this project is going to fail. 52:25 We've humored you by supporting you for two years 52:27 to take advantage 52:28 of your country's government's funding, it's going to fail. 52:32 So when you look on Google now, 52:35 you actually see the place 52:37 and it's been fully developed 52:38 as a vocational training school 52:40 operated now by the Botswana government. 52:43 So it's called Barolong Vocational Training School. 52:47 And it's still operating and operating very well. 52:49 That's great. So what do they teach in now? 52:52 It's still the gardening? 52:53 They got all the other things, so carpentry, electrical, 52:55 all the other trades are all there. 52:59 I don't know all of them. 53:00 But it's quite something to look down 53:03 and see it now and think, 53:04 wow, there's three times 53:06 as many buildings as what we had made. 53:09 Well, I think it's time we can have a break now, 53:11 you know, and I'd encourage you to take note of our address. 53:15 If you've got any questions about the program or you know, 53:19 someone else who may have stories like Barry 53:22 and the work they've done as missionaries 53:25 or workers overseas, 53:27 expats and I just ask you to take our address down, 53:30 drop us a line and tell us what you think. 53:37 If you would like to contact 3ABN Australia, 53:39 you may do so in the following ways. 53:41 You may write to 3ABN Australia, PO Box 752, 53:46 Morisset, New South Wales 2264, Australia. 53:50 That's PO Box 752, Morisset, 53:54 New South Wales 2264, Australia. 53:57 Or you may call 02-4973-3456. 54:01 That's 02-4973-3456 54:06 from 8:30 am to 5 pm Monday to Thursday, 54:09 or 8:30 am to 12 pm Fridays, New South Wales time. 54:15 You may also email us at mail@3abnaustralia.org.au. 54:20 That's mail@3abnaustralia.org.au 54:28 Thank you for all you do 54:29 to help us light the world with the glory of God's truth. 54:36 You know, Bev and Barry have given their early 54:40 or a good part of the years of their life, 54:42 haven't you really to go and work in another country 54:45 for the benefit of others. 54:46 And I'd encourage others 54:48 who may be watching this program 54:50 that you know we all can do something, 54:53 we don't have to stay in our normal place 54:55 where we're complacent and happy to be. 54:57 Sometimes we've got to step out to gain a better experience 55:00 and to learn how much more we can trust in God. 55:03 Barry mentioned, you mentioned, 55:05 Barry, that you know, 55:07 you did the normal Sabbath activities 55:09 as you grew up as a Seventh-day Adventist. 55:12 Looking back, 55:14 you don't know the impact 55:15 that you would have had on the people. 55:17 But it's important to show your faith, isn't it? 55:19 Yes, it is. 55:21 And so, you got involved in Sabbath worship. 55:24 And that's probably something a lot of them 55:26 would not have really understood or known about. 55:30 Did that have an impact 55:31 on the lives of the people there? 55:33 Yeah, I think it did. 55:34 It was very interesting, 55:36 because the management committee 55:37 was made up of local people who were not Adventist. 55:40 Okay. 55:41 And so it was, the Adventist involvement 55:43 was very small in terms of numbers of people. 55:46 And so, 55:47 I think they really appreciated and valued, 55:50 that we stood for something that we said, 55:52 "No, you can't do these things on this site." 55:56 No, alcohol is not permitted, all these sort of things. 55:58 So we had strict rules about behavior... 56:01 And no work on the Sabbath? 56:03 That's right. No work on the Sabbath. 56:04 And the community really supported that. 56:06 So there was a big witness there. 56:09 And also, what sort of, 56:11 were they people that you've helped the students? 56:14 Were they only from basically a localized area? 56:17 Or did they come from further afield? 56:19 From the whole country. 56:20 So whole of Botswana? 56:22 So some people came from long way away. Yeah. 56:23 Very good. 56:24 So it wasn't just the local area 56:26 that you were helping, that's really good. 56:28 That would have meant 56:30 there will be a continual influx of students. 56:33 So we took a bit of controlling and managing that, 56:36 but they were coming from north, a 1000 Ks away. 56:40 Very good. So you finish that project. 56:42 Yeah. 56:43 And then you are sailing back or flying back to Australia. 56:46 But something happened, where were you called to go? 56:49 So they asked me to go and serve in Uganda 56:51 as the ADRA director there. 56:53 And so that was in '91, in the middle part of '91. 56:58 So we went there exactly to the day, 57:00 two years after we arrived in Uganda. 57:02 Two years later, 57:04 we arrived in I mean, in Botswana, 57:05 two days later, 57:07 we arrived in Uganda on the same day. 57:08 So you continue that same sort of experience 57:11 working in another part of Africa. 57:14 And we're going to be talking to Barry 57:17 again in the next program, 57:18 about his experiences in Uganda. 57:20 That's a special instance 57:22 where something happened there. 57:24 I'm not going to tell you about it. 57:26 You have to watch the program reset. 57:27 So, Barry? 57:29 Something interesting happened in the world, 57:31 something tragic. Yes, it did. 57:33 You want me to tell you what it was? 57:35 No! 57:36 We're gonna wait until, we'll wait. 57:37 But you were there for? 57:39 Yes, I was there for the whole thing. 57:40 Thanks for being on the program. 57:41 Until the next program, 57:43 we want to thank you for supporting 3ABN. 57:45 God bless. |
Revised 2020-10-04