Participants: Sherwin Jack, Geoff Youlden, Zeny Vidacak, Orion Ka, Charissa Fong, Justin Torossian
Series Code: OTR
Program Code: OTR001040
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01:01 Well Happy Sabbath Y'all. Is that how we say it in America?
01:06 Yeah I'm sure I'd probably say I'm just as weird. 01:10 Happy Sabbath everyone, friend, mate, y'all, However you say it. 01:16 Ok has everyone had a good lunch today? 01:19 Are they all filled up and is their mind switched on still? 01:23 I'm sure you guys are but it seems like there are a lot of 01:28 people had some really interest- ing theological questions today. 01:32 So, this as you know is our panel. 01:35 And for you guys who have been here for a few days 01:39 so far you know who we have, we have Ryan, we have Jeff 01:42 we have Charissa, we have Justin we have Pastor Zeny 01:45 and we have Pastor Sherwin Jack. 01:48 These are going to be the people we're gonna be presenting 01:50 your questions to, today. Okay and as you can see 01:53 we've got a good mixture of a whole different variety 01:57 of wise people. We have the young wise people 02:00 and we have the very mature wise people. 02:03 Mature in a good way, ok? So... 02:07 Don't say rubbish Jeff. ok. 02:09 Alright, so we're gonna present some questions now 02:12 your questions, so we get a good variety of 02:15 answers. Yes, so listen up and enjoy 02:18 Ok, question 1. In regard to a sermon recently preached 02:24 should I stop using my iPad as Bible for Bible memorization? 02:29 Or is there a way I can use both my Bible and my iPad 02:34 for memorization or can you give me any other strategies 02:38 for Bible memorization? 02:40 So I'd just like to say that the key Psalm 119 of course tells us 02:48 that David says, Thy word have I hid in my heart 02:51 that I might not sin against Thee. 02:53 So we know that Bible memori- zation is essential to us 02:56 as Christians. The Lord can speak to us by bringing His 02:59 Word back to our minds that way. And really, personally 03:02 I believe that, I've written an article to that extent 03:05 for Secrets Unsealed, for some youth saying that 03:09 really we should never completely do away with 03:11 our paper Bibles, Amen. You know you can turn faster to a verse 03:15 in a Bible if you're used to it 03:19 than the fastest tablet or smart phone there is. 03:21 Or computer. So really there is no replacement also 03:25 the battery doesn't die, it can't malfunction on you 03:28 when the power goes out it will still be readable 03:32 if you have a candle or a torch 03:35 But really to answer the question, I think that 03:37 its essential to utilize the tools that God has given us 03:40 with technology, different people have different opinions 03:43 when it comes to Bible reading, Bible study 03:45 some pastors say don't highlight your Bible, 03:48 don't turn it into a coloring book. 03:49 Others say whatever gets you into the Word and helps you 03:52 remember it, Praise the Lord. But when it comes to utilizing 03:56 apps or different programs, personally I used to write out 03:59 my Bible memory verses on cards and then the stack 04:02 got bigger and bigger and when I started going places 04:05 I was concerned of losing it or if someone spilled water on it 04:08 it would be gone and there are apps available 04:11 through which you can memorize scripture and utilize both 04:15 the physical Bibles as well as technology and that way 04:19 if it's backed up to a cloud you can download it on a 04:22 different computer, it's in your pocket, in your phone 04:24 and the key is knowing what the verse, the chapter the verse 04:29 and the book. Because when you have that it doesn't matter 04:31 what Bible you are using, you can find your memory verse, Amen 04:36 So really utilize the tools, I'd say God has given you 04:40 and find what works for you. The key is putting and hiding 04:44 God's word in our hearts, in our minds 04:46 and using every possible means that we can to do so. 04:49 I just want to say something as well, just I think one big 04:55 thing you find in the Bible is in Ecclesiastes 9:11. It says 04:59 The race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong 05:01 but time and chance happens to them all 05:04 And so I think one big thing that we lose a lot is 05:07 just the little pockets of time as well, and one way to 05:10 I thought I'd just add this as you know sometimes you're 05:13 waiting at a train station or you're sitting on a bus 05:16 or you're waiting for a friend, you know there are lots of times 05:18 you're on a break and you check your Facebook page you know 05:21 So all these little gaps of time you get during the day 05:24 A lot of times we waste away these little pockets of time 05:27 And those are some really imp- ortant times that you can just 05:31 instead of checking your Face- book page just check out a verse 05:34 instead of looking up and seeing what the TV is saying 05:38 you know always hold something in your pocket or 05:42 whether it's a tablet or a phone, I think that's 05:44 that's a really effective way practically to cultivate a love 05:48 for wanting to put effort into study it is just those little 05:51 pockets of time you know they seem small when you're going 05:54 throughout the day but when you actually think about it 05:56 about this whole year, how many times you've checked 05:59 your facebook or you've checked something or you've spent 06:01 a little gap of time unnecessar- ily if you replace all those 06:04 little gaps of time with simply picking up your Bible and reading 06:08 a verse that will really help you to make up for a lot of time 06:12 that gets wasted sometimes. 06:15 On the other hand if you want to do a really great study 06:21 technology can be of great help. 06:23 So let's say you have your iPhone and or iPad and 06:29 and you want to do a topical study of any nature 06:34 and you find just one word, that word you find it's the key 06:39 and you would like to see it somewhere else 06:40 technology becomes very handy and very important 06:44 So using technology is just great, fantastic. 06:48 So for your devotional it can be great aid for all of us. 06:53 Zeb I think, I think that I raised the issue 06:57 maybe I ought to talk to it again. The danger that I think 07:06 we're facing is the minimization of using the Scriptures. 07:12 And we see this illustrated with a lot of preachers and 07:16 and those of us who are preachers here 07:18 I think we need to be very care- ful about not using powerpoint 07:24 to put text on the screen, because immediately we put 07:30 text on the screen we discourage people from turning it up 07:33 in their Bibles. And I think we make a very grave mistake 07:39 in doing that. And so my appeal is to those who are presenting 07:45 to if you are going to put the reference up, 07:47 and that's possibly a good thing In my evangelistic program 07:51 I never put the text up on the screen but I put the reference 07:55 and the page number so I encourage people to turn it up 07:58 But as soon as you put the full text up people immediately 08:01 you watch, they'll put their Bibles down 08:03 and they'll read it from the screen. And that is doing the 08:06 same thing as iPads are doing its discouraging 08:10 memorization because we remember as we get involved 08:15 with turning the scriptures up. That's my concern 08:18 I still think there is a place for it and we're not saying 08:21 we should never have it. But I'm saying the Word in our hands 08:24 the Word in our hands is very important. 08:30 Ok, so by the sounds of it, it sounds like there's a bit of 08:32 middle ground there between two different generations. Maybe? 08:39 No, no, no,no, no, no, no. 08:41 Well we stand on the same ground that the Scriptures need to be 08:45 in our minds and our hearts and the best way you can do that 08:49 you utilize everything that you can to do that and make sure 08:52 that they're here and here and we all agree on that. 08:54 This generation has won. Look! We're not completely illiterate. 09:02 It's that we see the danger that's all we're saying too. 09:06 Amen, amen. Ok we'll go to the next question. 09:08 This is a really good question. How do you know when you are 09:12 meant to move forward in faith or stay put in faith? 09:17 I guess so you're not being presumptuous. 09:21 Well sometimes depending on what type of situation it is 09:27 If I'm not sure if I should, what the Lord's will is 09:30 in the matter, I tell the Lord Lord I'm going to move forward 09:34 in this direction and if this is not Your will close the door. 09:38 And it's amazing that when it's not in the Lord's will 09:42 I mean, He will slam the door shut. At times, 09:45 you can push against it, it's as hard as you want it you can't 09:48 budge it. At other times if you push hard enough you can 09:51 go through but you know when the Lord has shut the door on you. 09:53 So that's one way of determining the Lord's will and of course 09:56 keeping a strong connection with Him through His word 09:59 so He can speak to you in your devotional life. 10:01 I think something else Zeb that is very important is 10:06 in taking counsel from those that we have confidence in. 10:09 Because sometimes folk of wider experience 10:14 and years of experience can help us and it's a good thing 10:17 to have someone you have confidence in to share 10:20 that issue with and to get their perspective. 10:23 It's not the only thing that we should do, I think 10:25 what Justin has said is very very important 10:28 but also counsel of those that we have confidence in. 10:32 Alright. Next question. This is a good one. 10:39 How can we overcome if we are victims of child abuse 10:43 so we can marry, have children and get on with our lives. 10:47 A very sensitive one, but yeah. 10:58 I think we need to be humble and understand, what is it we 11:05 I'm talking about me as a pastor what is it I as a pastor can do 11:10 and where my limits are. Obviously one thing that is 11:16 a powerful tool for us is counsel them spiritually 11:21 and that is extremely powerful because there is 11:24 any other professional is not going to do that job. 11:27 So that is what we powerfully can use 11:33 but then we also need to under- stand, humbly understand that 11:37 there needs to be a professional there as well 11:42 and understand our limits as well and direct him to the 11:46 professionals and there could be a variety of them that they 11:48 need to see. But we also need to understand that our role is 11:55 extremely important. Nobody else is going to do it but us. 11:58 so but also understand that there is a limit to 12:04 our role that we play. 12:08 I think that it is important for us to create an environment 12:13 within our churches where people feel safe 12:15 to disclose when incidents like this happen 12:20 we, at many times, do not have a safe environment where 12:24 members who have been victimized can feel free to disclose 12:28 and seek help. It varies from person to person 12:32 some people can be healed through spiritual intervention 12:36 via utilizing all of the aspects of our faith, prayer, 12:40 Bible study, fellowship. But as Pr. Zeny said 12:44 there are some individuals because of the depth of the hurt 12:48 scarring, the pain that they are not able to move on 12:52 They need to get and seek professional counseling 12:56 and we, as a church, should have a resource base 13:00 where we have counselors that have been vetted 13:03 counselors that we have some interaction with 13:08 so that when members need that kind of help 13:11 we can have a ready referral for them 13:14 so they're not left to sort of flounder as to where they can go 13:19 to get help. Spiritual help is definitely needed, support 13:24 but we have to also look at the clinical component 13:28 that sometimes must work in hand with spiritual nurturing 13:32 to help individuals be made whole again. 13:34 Okay. Next question. Is it ok for Seventh-day Adventists 13:41 to use Christian rock music in church services? 13:44 Where should we draw the line in music and worship? 13:48 How much time do we have? I'll give you five minutes. 13:57 I say that facetiously simply because the area of music 14:02 is one of those areas of discussion within the church 14:05 family that will go on until we stand in the presence of God 14:09 because our tastes vary, our desires vary, 14:13 where the boundaries are vary, what's acceptable for one 14:18 is simply not acceptable for the other, and so 14:21 I think that the whole idea of Christian rock, just having 14:26 those two words together is problematic for some 14:29 because of the associations we make with rock music 14:32 and so when we talk about music, I think 14:37 just as we sit here this after- noon and look on this audience, 14:41 every face is different and we will find that in terms of 14:45 musical preferences, musical desires, musical needs 14:50 that it varies. Where that balance is to be found 14:55 is very very difficult and challenging 14:58 but I do believe that as a church family 15:01 having a variety of musical presentations 15:04 will at some point in time meet the needs of the church family. 15:09 Christian rock? For some people the association just 15:15 the beat, the drums, people just see it as an abandonment 15:20 of one's faith and sacrilege to even have guitars or 15:24 drums in the church. We then ask ourselves is the instrument evil 15:29 or is the manner in which it is played evil? I pastored a church 15:34 where there was a lot of discussion about whether we 15:36 should have drums in the church. And some of the same people 15:40 who were against drums would go to a symphony 15:42 and drums would be played and they would appreciate it. 15:45 Sometimes its the manner in which the drum is played 15:48 the cadence, the beat, these are things that sometimes 15:52 we have to be careful about. 15:54 I agree with Pastor Jack in the sense that there is definitely 15:59 on the straight and narrow, the road is wide enough 16:03 for us to all be on the same road while differing in 16:07 personal taste to a degree, but of course the Word of God 16:12 is also clear about principles that should govern our worship 16:14 principles of modesty, of holiness 16:17 and while there's a discussion right now in musical circles 16:20 as to whether, and in our church whether music is neutral or not 16:24 it's very clear and easy to see that music itself 16:28 even without words carries a message. And you can see this by 16:32 shows that are played on TV etc music creates a mood and 16:37 just the question of Christian rock, I'd like to share a few 16:41 simple quotes, this is interest- ing in the Buzz magazine 1984 16:46 Prof. Verna Rice stated that when Christian and secular 16:50 rock music was played at a club in Belgium the hearers could not 16:54 tell the difference. And I think that's quite telling 16:57 Also Leah Ford in the LA Times in 1988 said 17:04 and she's a secular rock musician, this is from the 17:07 secular rock industry, she says Listen rock n roll ain't church 17:11 It's nasty business, you gotta be nasty too, 17:15 if you're a goody goody you can't sing or play it. 17:19 So, in the eyes of secular rock musicians, rock music itself 17:25 is contrary in principle and in message 17:28 to the message of Christianity. 17:31 You may ask what about contemporary Christian music? 17:33 John Stile the editor of CCM Magazine actually said 17:38 The record companies realize they're dealing with 17:40 a commercial product and they have to consider the 17:43 entertainment factor of the record. 17:44 The message may be great but unless the framework is 17:48 well executed, the people are not going to listen to it. 17:50 And while music should be beautiful and it needs to be 17:53 well done, when music record labels are looking for something 17:59 that is going to sell, you can know that the principles 18:03 that are leading them are going lead them into giving people 18:06 what they want and not focusing on the message 18:09 that not only the words communicate 18:11 but that the music itself is portraying. 18:17 So the rock scene we see in the world is actually contrary 18:22 according to secular rock musicians themselves. 18:25 To the principles of Christ as we find in His word. 18:28 Can I just add, I think much of the problem is solved 18:34 if we have a sanctified person in charge of the music. 18:37 I think that's the key, is the sanctification of those 18:45 who are leaders and if they are not sanctified 18:48 then we're going to have all sorts of problems 18:50 with our music and our standard of music 18:53 my experience over the years has been it's not so much the drums 18:57 that's the problem, it's the drummer. And I've seen the drums 19:03 played in churches that are very nice. 19:07 and I would have no objection whatsoever. 19:11 And as Pr. Jack has reminded us in the orchestras that we 19:15 some of us love the orchestral music and the symphony orchestra 19:18 that kind of instrument is very prominent often 19:23 and we don't have any problems with that because 19:25 the drummer and those who are leading out are part 19:29 of the orchestra, they're not on their own. 19:31 But often in our churches when we have the drums 19:36 the drummer wants to take over. 19:38 And that's where I think most of us have a real problem. 19:43 So a sanctified leader, and as leaders of the church, we should 19:48 make sure that who's in charge of the music 19:51 is indeed converted and sanctified. 19:54 And most of the problems will be cared for. 19:56 Just to add something as well, just as a Biblical reference 20:03 when you read 1 Samuel 16, you read the story of how Saul was 20:08 troubled by the evil spirit, and he calls David along and David 20:12 plays the harp, We're not told that words were played or 20:15 words were even expressed but we're told that the instrument 20:17 was played and what you find as when he plays this instrument 20:21 the evil spirit leaves and that is just a Biblical reference 20:25 to show that music is a spiritual matter 20:28 It's not just something that's just aerie faerie 20:31 and there's no spiritual implications, that verse 20:35 that chapter you can read in 1 Samuel 16 shows that music 20:39 can have a spiritual effect and second thing I just want to add 20:42 not to take up too much time was that our character 20:46 is made up of thoughts and our feelings and what you find 20:49 with music is that music has the ability to move your feelings 20:52 to change your feelings and emotions 20:53 Now we know we're not called to go by feelings but by faith 20:56 and so what you find is whether it's rock or Christian rock 21:00 or whether it's a rock musical even or you know grunge 21:03 or whatever kind of music you can find just by lookin at the 21:07 music bid, you know the music itself, how it affects 21:10 your emotions you know, you play music and it moves your emotions 21:13 and it makes you feel certain ways and so we know that 21:16 character is what we take to heaven 21:17 and so one thing that we also is good to consider 21:21 what the kind of music we add as Christian is the way 21:25 it affects our emotions and our feelings 21:27 because that's what makes up our moral character. 21:30 And when you read Early Writings page 72 21:32 it says Faith and Feeling are different 21:35 the two are distinct. It says Faith is ours to exercise but 21:38 the joyful feelings and the blessings are God's to give. 21:41 And so I think that's how some times music can, we can be moved 21:46 by music in a way, when in reality 21:49 feeling is what comes second. 21:50 Faith is what comes first. So I just wanted to add that as well. 21:54 Ok, Thank you, thank you. Big topic as you said. 21:57 Ok next question. Do the wicked suffer longer according to the 22:02 sins they committed in the judgment or are they 22:05 all destroyed at the same time? 22:10 Well Jesus did say that there are degrees of rewards. 22:18 Now if there are degrees of rewards, there are probably 22:23 degrees of punishment as well. The Bible says 22:29 that there are some things that if we don't use and do not apply 22:35 on this earth, that throughout all eternity 22:37 we will be at a loss over. And so 22:46 I don't think it's something that we ought to be 22:49 very concerned about and I think it's a subject 22:51 that we ought to be careful about how we express 22:54 because we don't want to paint God to be something He's not 22:57 but seeing the question is being raised, 23:01 to whom much has been given much is expected 23:04 And so the Bible definitely does teach degrees of reward 23:09 I'd just like to add a verse to that, Luke chapter 12 23:15 there's a passage there where Jesus, and you could find this 23:18 in the gospels as well, where it talks about the two kinds of 23:20 servants. In Matthew 24 it calls it the good and faithful 23:25 and wicked servant but in Luke 12:47 it says, and that speaking 23:31 of the servant after the Lord has delayed His coming 23:34 it says and that servant which knew His Lord's will 23:37 and prepared not himself neither did according to His will 23:41 shall be beaten with many stripes. verse 48 says 23:44 but he that knew not and did commit such things worthy of 23:48 stripes shall be beaten with few stripes, for unto whosoever 23:52 as Geoff just mentioned, much is given 23:54 of him shall be much required. And to whom may have 23:57 committed much of him they will ask the more. 24:00 Revelation 22:12 says Behold I come quickly 24:05 and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work 24:09 shall be. And so in Luke 12 and Revelation 22 you find there 24:13 the dealing of sin after the 1000 years 24:18 those who did these things and did not know 24:21 are beaten with few, obviously this is a metaphor 24:25 speakin here in this chapter but you find here Jesus speakin 24:28 of degrees, different degrees of reward 24:32 As there is for the righteous so also for the wicked. 24:37 Ok, next question. In regards to relationships 24:42 how can we be unequally yoked? 24:45 Can 2 SDAs be dating and still be unequally yoked spiritually? 24:52 I'd like to say something here 24:54 because I haven't said anything yet, surrounded by all these 24:58 wise men I've been waiting for my moment. 24:59 I think the answer to that is, it is possible 25:03 to be dating a Seventh Day Adventist and be unequally yoked 25:06 I say that because just because somebody is a SDA 25:11 in name doesn't mean that they're a converted Christian 25:14 and a follower of Jesus Christ. And I speak from experience 25:17 I mean my mom married my dad. He was a SDA going to church 25:22 but shortly after they got married he stopped going. 25:25 So, Praise the Lord he came back So you need to prayerfully seek 25:31 the Lord in matters like this and ask is he or she converted? 25:39 Just adding to that the Bible says 'Can two walk together 25:42 unless they be agreed?' And you can both be 25:46 a part of the SDA church and not be walking, or not be agreeing 25:50 on a variety of serious core issues. 25:53 And so talk to the person, spend time with them in 25:58 groups of people, observe their character 26:00 and you know I just wanna say 26:03 that you can get to know somebody very well 26:06 without being in a committed serious relationship with them 26:08 and spending lots of one on one time together. 26:10 You really wanna get to know somebody? Spend time with them 26:14 and many people. And pray about it together 26:17 discuss it if the time comes up. But yes, the answer is yes 26:21 and that's why we need to place our lives in God's hands 26:25 claim Psalm 32:8 where He says I will instruct you and 26:28 teach you in the way you should go, I will guide you with my eye 26:32 Trust Him to lead us and listen to Him when He tell us 26:36 and if He tells us you know this person's not quite right for you 26:39 Because that means that 26:41 when the right person comes along He'll tell you. 26:45 When we talk about being unequally yoked, 26:47 we're not only just talking about religion 26:50 because that's a very, very important part and 26:53 that's been much emphasized so far 26:56 But there are lots of other areas 26:57 that we can be unequally yoked together in which is very bad 27:01 for example, education. If we're not of a similar mind 27:10 educationally, then after the marriage takes place 27:14 and the honeymoon is over and we get down to dishes and 27:17 the other issues that have to take place in life 27:20 if you can't communicate with your partner 27:23 or you find that your partner is not able to communicate with you 27:27 in the level then your marriage is in trouble. 27:30 Not only education, but also background wise 27:36 some of us come from a totally different background 27:39 to others and we need to check all this out, that's why 27:42 courtship needs to be over 2 or 3 years so that we've got time 27:47 to get to know the other person. It's not just the matter of 27:50 whether the person says I love the Lord 27:52 There's more to it than that. 27:54 And we're facing a serious issue with our marriages today 27:59 because nearly 50% are ending in divorce. 28:02 Something, something is wrong. And I believe 28:07 that as young people we ought to once again take 28:09 people into counsel that we have confidence in 28:11 and ask their opinion of our friend, our partner whoever 28:17 what do you think? how do you feel about them? 28:20 Have you noticed something that could be helpful? 28:22 The trouble is we think we know. 28:24 And as young people we are the most inexperienced 28:27 we have to make the biggest decisions in life 28:29 when we're the least experienced. 28:31 And we decide what we're going to do in life 28:34 we have no experience and we decide who we're gonna marry 28:37 and we have no experience. 28:39 And so many of us are making a big mistake 28:43 take persons you have confidence in, take them into your counsel 28:48 and trust them. And if you've got good parents 28:51 trust your parents because sometimes your parents 28:54 have been through a few things 28:55 and they're able to see some things that you can't see. 28:58 And if they ring some warning bells take some notice. 29:03 I think that's why in my practice as a pastor 29:07 I will not marry any couple unless they go through a period 29:10 of marital counseling except if they're 82 years old 29:14 and I tell them what thou doest do quickly 29:21 But in the normal course what the pastor said is so important 29:27 taking counsel from friends, from family but also 29:31 getting counseling in terms of pre marital counseling. 29:35 It is vitally important that one sits with a counselor 29:38 be it a pastor or maybe there's some Christian counselors 29:42 in the church, I guarantee there maybe someone here 29:44 in the audience right now that you have the background 29:46 the skills to help to guide them I'm always amazed 29:52 at the length of time and the inordinate amount of preparation 29:57 that couples spend in preparing for the wedding 30:01 and how little time they want to invest in the marriage. 30:04 The wedding is for one day, the marriage is for life. 30:08 So I think its incumbent upon the couple and us pastors 30:13 to give couples guidance and even if we don't do counseling 30:16 ourselves to make sure that there was a period of 30:20 pre-marital counseling that was done prior to them. 30:24 A lot of things come out in that process that can help to guide 30:29 the couple as to whether or not this is the right person, or 30:32 this is the right time. I agree that a period of time 30:36 must be granted to get to know the person, 30:39 to get to know yourselves in connection and in relationship 30:42 to that individual so that you are making a decision 30:45 that will bring glory and honor to God and joy to you 30:49 as a couple. So I really, strongly stress 30:53 pre-marital counseling should be a part of the whole experience. 30:57 Thank you Pastor. Alright, next question. Ok, in regards to the 31:04 Trinity and the Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit just a force 31:09 or an actual being like God and Jesus. 31:17 If you want to read the chapter where Jesus Himself speaks 31:22 most frequently about the Holy Spirit, study John 14 through 17 31:28 specifically chapter 16. It's interesting that Jesus 31:32 made reference to the Holy Spirit a number of times 31:35 in John 16 as 'HE'. He said in John 16:6 31:42 Because I have said these things to you sorrow has filled your 31:43 heart, continuing on V.7, it is to your advantage that I go away 31:48 for if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you 31:52 but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 31:55 And repeatedly Jesus called the Holy Spirit HIM 31:57 We see also in the Book of Acts the Holy Spirit can be grieved 32:03 that His feelings can be hurt when we reject the counsel 32:08 or instruction the Holy Spirit is bringing to us 32:11 it is a personal thing for Him. If you really want to read 32:16 a good chapter and section that gathers from various places 32:21 what Ellen White has to say about the Triunity of God 32:24 the Trinity if you will, or the Godhead, I'm meaning the 32:28 same thing by those three, read the section called 32:31 Misrepresentations of the Godhead 32:33 in the book Evangelism. If you have questions that will clear 32:37 it up. She says there, speaking of a place not too far from here 32:40 Avondale. She was writing to the students and she said 32:42 know that the Holy Spirit who is as much a person as God 32:48 the Father is a person is walking these grounds. 32:51 The Holy Spirit is a person. And not only according to 32:56 Ellen White because she is echoing, as always, 32:59 what the Bible teaches on this, the Holy Spirit is co-eternal 33:03 with God the Father and God the Son. 33:06 And this is just the next introduction to my next sermon 33:09 which is next Sabbath. So come. 33:17 Zeb, can I just add one more thing on this? 33:20 You know when Jesus said in Matthew 28, go baptizing folk 33:24 in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit 33:29 that puts them all together. Now if the Holy Spirit is 33:32 an influence and Christ is a person 33:34 and the Father is a person and most people accept the fact that 33:38 those two are persons, then why would the commission 33:43 the great commission be at it so that in the name of the Father 33:50 Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus is putting the three of them 33:52 on the same level in that commission? 33:56 and it's very clear. Baptism is in the name of the, you know 33:59 baptized with the Holy Spirit was there in the form of a dove 34:03 Jesus was there of course being baptized 34:07 and the Father in the voice of the Father from heaven 34:10 So every time Jesus talks about the Godhead He's talking about 34:15 the three members of the Godhead, and 34:20 the church has, we're not going back to the 34:23 if you go back to the early days of our church 34:27 when often folks who are anti- Trinitarian are quoting 34:30 Uriah Smith and some of these men who were Unitarians 34:34 they came out of the Unitarian background and of course 34:38 what they're saying is that we have departed, the church has 34:41 departed from our pioneers. That is not true. 34:44 The pioneers were wrong. The early pioneers were incorrect 34:48 in their understanding and God raised up the Spirit of Prophecy 34:52 to make sure that we understood it and the Desire of Ages was 34:56 written here in Australia and she made it very, very clear 34:59 about the Godhead. Read the Desire of Ages 35:03 it's a wonderful, wonderful book. 35:05 Just expounding on what Geoff said on the great commission 35:09 just doing a personal Bible study on that one 35:13 you remember when just before Jesus died on the cross 35:16 He told them you're going to see me after I resurrect. 35:21 Where? In Galilee. And then He would mention it once more 35:25 Then angels after His resurrect- ion also said to the disciples 35:30 you're going to meet Jesus in Galilee. 35:32 And that was not the only place where Jesus appeared 35:35 after He resurrected. But some thing in Galilee was going 35:38 to happen that was extremely important 35:40 and it was emphasized before the crucifixion 35:44 and even after resurrection. So when you look what happened 35:48 in Galilee, on the mountain where Jesus even called 35:51 His disciples. Two important things happened there 35:54 One, Corporately for the first time they worshipped Jesus 35:58 It never happened before. So corporately they worshipped Him 36:03 Bowed down before Him. Not individually but corporately 36:06 And the second important thing that happened, Jesus 36:09 uttered something that He never uttered before. 36:12 And that is to talk about God as being in plural. 36:17 Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And I think that was so 36:21 extremely important. He said something that was of such 36:25 significance that He is God, that He is part of Godhead 36:30 and therefore, it is persons as we mentioned it before 36:34 but that is extremely signifi- cant I find in the Word. 36:38 Is it ok for SDAs to do modeling in the fashion industry? 36:54 My simple answer would be it's a very very dangerous occupation 36:59 if you want to remain a Christian because it's an environment 37:04 television, radio and I've been in that quite a while 37:08 it's a very very dangerous anti-God, secular area 37:14 and if you're going to associate with that type of activity 37:19 then you are flirting with danger 37:25 and if you are going to go down that path you need to make sure 37:30 that you are spending many hours per day in communion with God 37:33 then you might find that you decide you might want to do it. 37:37 Because I think it's very very dangerous. 37:44 I would just completely agree and add to that, you may say 37:48 When I think of modeling for fashion you don't typically 37:52 think of a man in a suit with a tie, right? I mean modeling 37:57 a suit or something. You may think well there's nothing wrong 38:01 with that. But really the danger here lies in the fact that 38:04 we are naturally selfish as individuals, we're naturally 38:08 proud, prideful and Lucifer's fall in part 38:11 his heart we're told was lifted up because of his beauty 38:15 and when you have cameras pointed at you all the time 38:18 because of the way you look, when people are making comments 38:21 when you see yourself on a bill board you can know that pride 38:24 is going to rise in your heart. He was the only being 38:27 interestingly enough, that we know of, at least 38:29 ever created with built in jewelery, 38:32 if you read Ezekiel 28 you'll find that he had 38:36 gems, Isaiah 14 as well, and its interesting to note that 38:42 he fell because his heart was lifted up he became proud 38:45 because of the way he looked. So that's the major danger 38:49 really lies in the fact that pride can rise 38:52 and like Pr. Yolden mentioned you're going to be around people 38:55 all the time who are, it's going to be a negative 38:58 environment through which the devil will try to pull you down. 39:04 And Jeb, when we look at those who are involved 39:07 there are very, very few who are not on drugs and who eventually 39:12 go down the path of ruin and broken relationships 39:16 they can't maintain their relationships and many of them 39:19 have had 3 or 4 wives or husbands and so forth 39:23 so it does something to their psyche and I don't really think 39:28 that's the environment that as Christians we want to 39:31 get involved with too much. I wouldn't think. 39:34 I just want to add one verse when you read about Vashti 39:41 in the Bible, in Esther 1, she's a perfect Biblical example 39:45 where King Ahasuerus calls her to come before 39:47 the whole throne room and to show her beauty 39:50 You read that in Esther 1:11-13, here she is being called upon 39:56 to parade herself because the Bible says she was very 39:59 fair to look upon and the Bible says she actually refused 40:03 and you know what happened, she was dethroned and so forth 40:05 I think it was taken out of Vashti's book even though she'd 40:10 this beauty and was beautiful to look upon, adding to everything 40:13 that Justin just mentioned you know it's there in the Bible 40:17 as well where women have been called to show themselves but 40:20 she as an example actually refused, that's a good example 40:27 Ok this one is probably more for the marriage counselors 40:30 So seeing that there will be no marriage in heaven 40:35 does that mean no sex in heaven as well? 40:41 You can tell the age of the aud- ience by that question can't you 40:49 It's a question I suppose that many a young couple have asked 40:52 once upon a time? Married couples I should say. 41:02 I've often been asked this question over the years 41:04 in evangelism. My simple answer is if God was good enough 41:08 to give us that gift here on this earth 41:11 then I think He'll have some thing even better for us 41:14 up in heaven and unfortunately we can only see through a 41:18 glass darkly at the moment and we can only see what we can see. 41:21 And all we can experience is sex and we all think it's wonderful 41:26 But, God's got something even better I believe up in heaven 41:31 so don't worry about it! 41:35 There you have it, don't worry about it guys. No stress. 41:38 Ok next question. We're slowly wrapping this up now. 41:42 I'm a young single Uni student witnessing at Uni 41:46 but only guys seem to be receptive, young Uni guys 41:51 but I'm troubled that they have other motives. 41:53 What should I do? Witness or not 41:55 It's not a girls' group. 42:02 I think the girl on the panel would be the 42:04 most effective to answer this. 42:06 This is my big moment and I'm speechless! 42:11 No it's true. Its very difficult to witness to people of the 42:15 opposite gender because they can start being interested 42:19 in listening to you for all the wrong reasons. 42:21 So, I would introduce them to a guy friend 42:25 that could also share with them. That would be what I would do. 42:28 I'm sorry that's true. That is a problem. 42:31 As a young pastor and unmarried I always made it a policy 42:37 when studying with girls, to have another girl present. 42:40 It's a good thing to do and it really breaks the ice and 42:44 if possible just hand the study over to that girl 42:48 cuz they can connect in ways that are healthy and 42:52 help each other in ways that we can't help them, so 42:54 what Charissa said was right on! 42:59 I think honesty and authenticity is very important to hear 43:03 because one has to be true to one's self and know that 43:07 there are boundaries you must set for yourself before 43:11 you get into that kind of a situation. Don't wait until 43:14 you're in the midst of it. So be honest with yourself, be 43:18 honest with the person that you are witnessing to, make sure 43:21 that there are certain boundaries that are set in terms 43:24 of how this relationship is governed and not allow yourself 43:28 to be caught in circumstances or situations that can lead 43:32 to something more than what you intended the relationship to be. 43:37 I don't think there's any harm in it, it's part of the gospel 43:40 commission to go out and to share the gospel 43:44 but we have to be wise and we have to be honest with ourselves 43:48 we have to set clear boundaries so that the relationship 43:52 is not mistaken for something other than what it is. 43:58 Ok next question. Can we as Christians participate 44:02 in contact sports or should we? 44:16 I think it's quite telling that in our country, the US 44:20 there is a magazine called the Guidepost Magazine 44:24 I believe it was the Guidepost, I believe it was December 12 44:29 My friend Dave Stuart pointed me to an article there 44:31 where they were talking about the helmets in NFL 44:35 Football, Iron grid as you call it here, American football 44:39 And they're actually scientists are trying to engineer 44:42 a new type of helmet that will enable players to still 44:46 have the same impact without having as many concussions 44:49 I think when we face problems like this in contact sports 44:53 we really need to stop and ask ourselves if our bodies are the 44:56 temple of the Holy Spirit, the temple of God, does God want us 45:00 crashing our temples into each other for the sake of 45:04 entertainment and sports. Now I love certain sports 45:07 they're not full on like contact sports, I play some basketball 45:13 tennis, things like this and Ellen White talked about how 45:16 boxing, football, had in her day become schools of brutality 45:21 and I think there's a danger in that but healthy exercise 45:27 she never condemns ball playing baseball, and of course 45:30 the thing with that is we have to have balance 45:32 we can't allow it to become our everything. 45:35 but we do also need to be careful what types of sport 45:39 we play and support and ask is it something that is building us 45:43 is it wreck-creation or recreation? 45:53 The other thought that we could add there too Zeb is the fact 45:57 if we're playing contact sport or any other sport 46:01 if we're spending so much time with this this is another aspect 46:05 of this matter of sport, that sport or exercise is good but if 46:10 it becomes so dominant in our lives that it's taking up 46:13 so much time and we haven't got time for missionary work 46:17 we haven't got time for sharing our faith, we haven't got time 46:19 for studying the Word, then I think it stands condemned 46:23 on that basis which would condemn anything 46:26 tennis or any sport. So we have to have a balance 46:31 And only as we have a relation- ship with God 46:35 can God give us that appropriate balance and I don't think 46:40 any of us are saying that we shouldn't play sports but 46:43 you just need to be very careful that it doesn't absorb our time. 46:48 Okay we'll do two more questions and then we'll finish up. 46:52 What does the Bible say about jewelry? 46:56 Should I be wearing it, is there a line to be drawn somewhere? 47:00 What's your best advice? 47:07 I think the Bible acknowledges that jewelry was worn 47:11 both in secular and among the people of God 47:15 For years as a pastor this is a question that we continually 47:19 receive and will probably continue to get those kinds of 47:24 questions. I think the funda- mental question is that 47:27 we need to look at is, what is the whole issue, 47:31 what is the real issue with jewelry wearing? 47:33 The wearing or the not wearing? In the US where I live and work 47:38 this is an ongoing discussion in some of our churches 47:41 some of our Caribbean churches which is my background 47:45 coming from Trinidad, we're more conservative 47:49 bent on wearing jewelry. We have women who will not wear 47:53 earrings or necklaces but they will take the same piece 47:56 of jewelry and put it on their blouse and it now becomes 47:59 a pin or brooch. And so our whole approach to this 48:03 jewelry becomes a bit convoluted, 48:06 it's not a consistent approach in terms of 48:10 how we address it. First of all I like to look at it from 48:13 a standpoint: is the material itself intrinsically evil? 48:18 Is gold evil? If it is then we have a problem with heaven. 48:22 Because in heaven the streets are paved with gold. 48:25 If we say the material that pearls are made of are evil 48:29 we have to go through a gate of pearl to get in the walls. 48:32 So in terms of what we and how we address jewelry 48:37 for me as a pastor studying this thing for many years 48:40 I began to really ask myself what is the issue here? 48:43 Let me give you my summary statement 48:45 with the whole idea of jewelery My position, 48:48 this is just me sharing, as part of the panel, just one voice 48:52 that we are not spiritually ready to wear jewelry. 48:55 Jewels, as Justin alluded to a moment ago 49:01 when God created Lucifer, He created Lucifer and his 49:04 entire covering was jewels. Not just wearing jewels but his 49:09 entire covering. At that point the jewels that God 49:12 placed on him reflected his relationship with God. 49:17 Secondarily, there's a second person I saw in the Bible 49:21 that God directed to wear jewels that was the High Priest 49:24 Breastplate with different kinds of stones, 49:27 a golden mitre on his head and a golden girdle and so forth. 49:30 But here's what I discovered in my own study 49:34 that makes sense for me. When ever God's people were standing 49:38 before God in a time of judgment the jewelery came off. 49:42 Exodus 33 when they sinned Moses said God is coming to judge you 49:46 take off all of your earrings and so forth 49:49 On the day of atonement when the High Priest went into 49:52 the temple, he voluntarily stripped himself of all 49:56 the jewels and went in before God in a plain linen ephod 50:01 which symbolizes that in a time of judgment 50:04 God's people laid aside their jewels. 50:07 As SDAs since 1844 we believe preach and practice 50:11 that we too are living in a time of judgment 50:14 And so for me it makes sense that we would voluntarily 50:17 lay aside our jewels because of the time frame and our 50:22 standing before God. But I believe that one day 50:27 the jewels will not be a problem 50:29 Because if I recall, before the flood jewels lay on the surface 50:33 of the earth and Ellen White says that men adorned their 50:36 homes with jewels. But because they chose to use it in a way to 50:41 gratify and glorify self the flood buried the jewels deep 50:46 in the recesses of the earth. So I don't think for me 50:49 as a pastor when people ask this question, I say to them 50:52 there's nothing intrinsically evil about the gold or silver 50:56 or whatever the metal might be but because of where we are 51:00 in earth's history we are seeking to glorify God 51:04 rather than to glorify ourselves and so for now we lay them aside 51:08 I'd just like to add to that and say if there was ever a person 51:12 who should've been able to wear jewelry and 51:14 deserve to wear it was Jesus, I mean he deserved to wear a crown 51:18 and we should've crowned him but instead He comes down 51:21 to this earth and lives a life of modest simplicity 51:25 and He set for us an example so I'm happy to wait till we get 51:29 to the Kingdom and He will place a crown on our heads 51:31 when we get there. Amen. 51:33 Zeb, can I just add an appeal to our girls here 51:38 I don't think you girls need to wear this stuff. 51:41 You're beautiful as you are. I haven't seen too many women 51:46 that I could say are more beautiful when they put on 51:49 earrings and so forth and I can not speak on behalf of every man 51:54 here but I think I speak on behalf of many men 51:56 who would agree with what I'm saying. That a girl 52:00 is attractive as she is and why do we need to put that stuff on? 52:07 Just be simple and beautiful at the same time. 52:14 Just to finish off, I think like just principle wise 52:18 the question I always ask is at the root of it is 52:21 the Bible says you're bought with a price and the question is 52:24 if we feel that we need to add things to our body 52:26 does that show we really believe we are bought with a price? 52:29 Because if you are bought with a price what more could you add 52:31 to that value. If you are bought with the blood of Christ 52:34 you are worth the blood of Christ, so if you add things 52:36 to your body the question to ask is do you actually believe 52:40 that you're worth God's blood. 52:41 If you are why add that to yourself? 52:45 OK and final question as we wrap this up 52:48 Is it ok for us to work on the Sabbath if we have a job 52:53 that helps other people like nurses, ambulance drivers 52:58 police officers and what should we do with the money if we do? 53:05 I think one of the dangers, Justin you correct me 53:09 One of the dangers that folk have 53:12 if they're working on the Sabbath is that 53:16 they lose their spirituality. I have seen this over and over 53:20 again. I have seen doctors who legitimately, because the Bible 53:25 says it's good to do well on the Sabbath and the hospitals 53:27 have to be maintained, people who are sick need to be 53:29 attended to so the principle is ok but I have seen very few 53:35 doctors who can continue to do that 53:38 and maintain their spiritual life and what happens 53:41 is gradually, gradually, grad- ually and they slip right out 53:45 because they get so busy doing something that is legitimate 53:47 same is true of nurses and so if we're going to work on Sabbath 53:52 I think it needs to be very controlled 53:54 and not do what some Adventists are doing working on the weekend 53:58 because they get more pay on the weekend 54:00 and do it under the cloak of 54:05 it's good to do well on the Sabbath 54:07 I think it's the motive, it's what lies in the mind 54:12 when we do these things that determines 54:13 whether it's right or wrong. 54:15 Well we want to thank everyone for all those questions 54:19 you submitted and we want to thank our panel here 54:21 for answering them and hopefully that settled everyone's question 54:25 and we can go out of here feeling the peace of God 54:28 in your hearts. Alright so we thank you and God bless. |
Revised 2015-05-07