Participants: Seth Yelorda (Host), Alfonzo Greene, Lola Moore, Michael Kelley, Michael Polite
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000003
|
00:35 Welcome to Pure Choices.
00:36 We're so glad that you join us again today 00:37 for another episode of these hot topics 00:40 that we've been dealing with. 00:41 As we go into this topic, 00:43 I just want to introduce my panel again, 00:45 my colleagues, we have Pastor Alfonzo Greene 00:48 who's here from the Huntsville, 00:50 First SDA Church in Huntsville, Alabama. 00:53 We have Pastor Mike Polite 00:55 who is the associate pastor at the Riverside, 00:57 SDA church in Nashville, Tennessee. 01:00 We have Pastor Lola Moore 01:02 who is here with us from the Oakwood University Church 01:05 in Huntsville, Alabama. 01:07 And then we have my brother Pastor Michael B. Kelly 01:10 the second I believe 01:11 who is here all the way from California 01:14 the Riverside area, Mt. Rubidoux SDA Church. 01:17 So I'm glad that you all here today. 01:18 Today we're going to be dealing 01:20 with probably one of the hottest topics 01:21 that we're going to tackle all season long 01:24 and that is homosexuality. 01:26 It's something that we know 01:27 is growing more and more in the church, 01:30 it's growing in society. 01:33 There is really a strong movement for it. 01:35 And we just really want to deal with it. 01:37 And we want to give our viewers some advice 01:40 and counsel the Word of God on this issue. 01:43 So that they can be educated and edified 01:45 concerning this topic. 01:47 Now I know that a question that is on a lot of people's minds 01:51 when it comes to homosexuality is nature versus nurture. 01:54 You know, was I born this way? 01:56 Was this something that I picked up along the way? 01:58 Was I socialized this way? 02:00 And so we're just gonna ahead and jump in right there 02:02 and really just trying to bring some clarity 02:04 to this whole issue of nature versus nurture 02:06 born or socialized 02:08 'cause I'm gonna throw it out there. 02:09 What do you all, what are your thoughts? 02:10 What do you think when you hear out there. 02:12 What does the Word of God say to you concerning this topic? 02:15 Well, I think it depends on the person. 02:17 If you surveyed 100 people 02:20 who subscribes to a homosexual lifestyle, 02:22 I think that you'll hear 100 different stories 02:25 about how they discovered 02:27 their sexuality in that direction. 02:30 How it was introduced to them, they were curious about it. 02:34 So I don't think it's fair to put anyone in one box. 02:37 I think that everyone is different. 02:40 And I think that an individual 02:42 would be able to tell you their story, 02:44 and by then they would be able to, 02:46 you know, to share with you how it came about. 02:49 Yeah, and I think with that there's definitely, 02:52 I love the idea of a combination 02:54 because, you know, you don't always... 02:58 When I say come out of the woman as a baby say, 02:59 "Oh, this is it there's something in you" 03:02 that I think does eventually, you know, come out. 03:05 The thing though I think the Word of God lets us know 03:07 is that we're all born in sin, shapen in iniquity. 03:11 And one of the things that 03:12 I know some people are afraid of that, 03:14 that I think that the word clarifies 03:17 is as we're born in sin, shapen in iniquity 03:19 we come into this world 03:21 with a natural bent to do those things 03:24 that are not becoming to Christ as opposed to what is. 03:27 And I don't believe that it is so absurd to think 03:32 that being born in sin 03:34 that takes on different bent that they may have. 03:36 So there are different things 03:38 that I believe I came into this world with, 03:40 as a result of being born in sin 03:42 that are different than what you have, 03:45 than what you have, than what you have. 03:47 They are fallen under that category 03:48 so for someone to say, 03:50 you know what, I was born with this bent. 03:53 I can receive that. 03:55 However what we've got to, what we must also understand is 03:58 when I'm born as a sinner 04:00 that never takes away my ability to choose. 04:03 Well, I think the issue that we have wrestled with is 04:06 that when people say, I'm born this way. 04:08 I think the churches response to that has been 04:11 "No, you're not born this way" 04:12 because in our mind somehow we feel 04:14 if I'm born homosexual, 04:16 then somewhere God messed up. 04:18 You know, like God doesn't mess up in His creation. 04:21 And so no one is born homosexual. 04:23 No one is born this way. 04:24 But it's something that you've been socialized, 04:26 maybe you had an experience in your younger years 04:28 and you kind of picked it up along the way. 04:30 But this is not the way God created you. 04:31 And so we wrestle with that as a church. 04:33 Right and we know God didn't mess up though. 04:34 Adam and Eve messed up, 04:36 and as a result of that as Pastor Kelly just mentioned, 04:38 we have now this bent towards 04:40 doing things that are not in line 04:42 with God's will and the way of God. 04:45 And so like he said this is not absurd. 04:47 I mean, look bottom line 04:49 is there're people that are born from propensity 04:51 to alcoholism 04:52 and you better believe 04:54 that the enemy is right there to try to create circumstances 04:57 and situations knowing the grandparents, 05:01 the great grandparents, the great grandparents. 05:03 He knows your genetic line. 05:06 He's going to create circumstances 05:07 that are going to cause you to try to fall 05:09 into some of those same patterns. 05:11 And so it's not absurd to think 05:12 that someone could have a bent towards homosexuality. 05:15 Yeah. 05:16 Well, I think people get concerned we're just saying 05:17 that though is the bent gives me the excuse. 05:21 And that's why people are afraid of. 05:22 So that I think we should remove that right now. 05:24 So if I'm born this way, then that means it's okay. 05:25 It's okay. 05:27 And we got to remove that right now 05:28 because I'm born a sinner. 05:29 I'm born a sinner doesn't make one a thief. 05:31 Well, I guess to what they're saying 05:34 and what I've heard is that 05:35 because, okay, I was born black as an African-American. 05:38 I was born black. 05:40 Now we know that we came out of a movement 05:41 the civil rights era where people actually said, 05:43 "If you are black you are less than," you know. 05:46 And you're what three face human? 05:48 You don't have the same rights 05:49 because of the way that you are born. 05:51 And so the whole civil rights era 05:53 was about me establishing 05:55 my humanity in the eyes of the world. 05:58 Well, I think one thing that would help our argument 06:01 is to take nature versus nurture. 06:04 And take out the verses and put in the end. 06:08 We all have a bent perverted, wicked nature. 06:15 And I believe the goal of the realm of darkness 06:18 is to make sure that once we come into the world 06:20 that is nurtured. 06:22 So a lot of times we ask, 06:23 "Well, is it that I was born this way 06:25 or was it the environment, was it my parents, 06:27 was it my school or my group of friends?" 06:29 No, you were born with a sinful nature. 06:33 And it is now the enemy's job 06:36 who knows your gene pool by the way, 06:38 who's been around for centuries. 06:39 So he knows about your granddaddy, 06:41 your great grand, everything. 06:42 He knows what's coming down the pipe. 06:44 Now it's his goal to nurture that. 06:46 Right. Okay. Okay. 06:48 So, no, no, no. 06:50 And I think one of the things as I was reading this one book 06:53 entitled "Authentic Human Sexuality". 06:56 The idea of that nature versus nurture, I love that. 06:58 We have maybe this bent coming in. 07:01 One of the things that they say 07:02 is that boys start to experience sexuality 07:06 at a much earlier age than girls, 07:08 but at an age 07:10 where they spend a lot of time around other boys. 07:13 So you see so at the time when girls have got cooties 07:18 that's when I'm starting to develop my sexuality. 07:22 And so it's not the excuse 07:23 but it just ties and I think to the idea 07:25 that if I do have that bent 07:29 and I'm having that nurture experience around other guys 07:32 or the other idea of how it socialize, 07:34 if I've had inappropriate 07:36 or bad experiences with the opposite sex, 07:39 it just adds to it. 07:41 So it's definitely a combination 07:42 and the devil knows how to create, 07:43 I think a lot of times, you know, that perfect storm. 07:46 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 07:48 Something that you just mentioned that you talked about 07:49 being born black, you just kind of talk about, 07:52 you know, just kind of comparing 07:54 the civil rights movement. 07:55 One of things that's important, 07:56 it's not sinful to be black 07:59 according to the Word of God 08:02 but a homosexual lifestyle... 08:04 It's not God's ideal. 08:05 It's not God's ideal. 08:07 So I think there's a difference there. 08:08 But all of us are sinners. 08:10 And so the same blood that covers lying, 08:14 the same blood that covers stealing 08:17 is the same blood that covers homosexuality. 08:20 And so I think one of things as a church that we have to do is 08:23 not elevate homosexuality to a level... 08:26 That is worse than anything else. 08:28 Right, because it's all sin 08:30 and we all need the grace of Jesus Christ. 08:31 So I guess the argument is that, 08:33 you know, I'm born black 08:34 and so how can the way I'm born be a curse. 08:38 Or how can the way I'm born be sinful. 08:40 And I guess on the flip side I'll say, 08:42 well, if I'm born with this natural orientation 08:43 as a man to like men, 08:45 then how can that be wrong? 08:46 But we all have an orientation to something. 08:48 Now, you may not be aware of it but all of us have orientation. 08:50 So let me throw this question out there. 08:52 What then is wrong with homosexuality? 08:54 Well, we've been casting our gays back 08:59 as we've gone from program to program 09:01 to what God's ideal was. 09:03 We believe that in Genesis 1 and 2, 09:06 as the creation story unfolds 09:08 that God shows is where His ideal 09:10 is for humanity, sexuality 09:13 and their relationships that God originally intended 09:17 for a man and a woman to come together in marriage, 09:21 and then by that way 09:23 they would be fruitful and multiply. 09:25 That procreation was a part of God's original plan. 09:28 And so when we look at homosexuality, 09:30 homosexuality does a couple of things 09:32 and departure from the original plan. 09:34 First off it has a relationship 09:36 between two people of the same gender 09:38 which was not God's original plan. 09:40 And there's secondly, 09:41 it eliminates the possibility for procreation. 09:44 It is not... 09:46 It eliminates people 09:48 from participating in being fruitful and multiply 09:51 as God originally intended. 09:55 What we have to be careful of though 09:58 scripture portrays different cultures 10:00 as they come down to the worst of the worst. 10:03 And homosexuality is usually connected in those stories 10:07 with these cultures coming to the worst of the worst. 10:11 And what we have to do I think is to be sensitive 10:14 that individuals who subscribe to this homosexual nature 10:19 are not necessarily given over "to a reprobate mind" 10:22 that these individuals 10:23 are necessarily at the end of their morality 10:26 but rather are struggling 10:27 with a very real part of who they are. 10:31 I think that's what ties into the idea with this, 10:33 with why sometimes is compared to the civil rights. 10:36 And this is where I think the way the church responds 10:39 and people responds, they eliminate it 10:41 because of the civil rights was about 10:43 not simply color of skin 10:45 but it's like I need equality... 10:48 Humanity. 10:49 I am still a human. 10:50 Now obviously I don't agree 10:52 with someone looking a certain way 10:53 that you treat them differently. 10:55 But the idea is even though I'm different 10:57 and let's say you did think 10:59 that the idea of me being black was an issue. 11:03 I'm still a human being. 11:05 And so I'm saying, I think the reason 11:07 that the homosexual lifestyle 11:09 can have that kind of connection 11:11 is because we sometimes, 11:13 when I say we I mean, obviously we don't do that here. 11:15 We say okay, that's not right lifestyle, 11:18 so we're going to treat you differently. 11:20 And they'll say no, no, no. 11:22 We already, I think we established it very clearly 11:23 that's not God's ideal, 11:25 but even if you're not living God's ideal 11:27 you're still His child 11:28 and He still wants to save you. 11:29 And that's why it's so important for our churches 11:33 to learn how to appropriately respond 11:36 because all we do is make martyrs. 11:38 So now the distraction is off of the moral issue, 11:43 but now it's back on the human issue 11:45 when that's really not the core of the issue. 11:48 But because we have treated them as less, 11:51 because they are dealing with this specific proclivity 11:54 towards an alternative lifestyle, 11:57 now they have that argument to raise up, 11:59 "Wait, I'm still human." 12:01 Why aren't you loving me? 12:02 Why aren't you welcoming me? 12:04 Why is it their ministry that is for me? 12:06 And that makes martyrs. 12:08 And I think the bullying thing 12:09 though is kind of like the example right now 12:12 where you have in schools 12:14 where people that are homosexuals are being bullied. 12:17 Just dealing with the human element 12:19 that should not happen. 12:21 Even though we don't want to agree 12:23 as far as from what God says 12:24 with the lifestyle of homosexuality, 12:26 that gives no one the right to bully someone 12:29 that may be living that lifestyle. 12:31 So when we focus on that, 12:33 it distorts the real issue which is a moral issue. 12:36 And I think there's a fine line 12:38 where we as a church need to learn to walk better 12:41 that Jesus obviously walked perfectly. 12:43 Love the sinner but I can't stand the sin. 12:47 But I'm not going to mix it through. 12:48 It's hard for us to find that balance. 12:50 Because we think if I love you, I'm accepting what you do. 12:53 Right. Yes. 12:55 And that's not the case. 12:57 We will lift up that, "Hey, there's victory over this, 13:00 you know, there's something 13:02 that this is not what God wants you to be. 13:03 And it's the same thing with the person 13:04 who's heterosexual 13:06 but sleeping around everybody. 13:07 That's not what you want you to be. 13:09 But however not but, however, 13:12 I'm still going to love you the way that Christ would 13:14 because you need the blood just like I need the blood. 13:17 And well, there's not going to be the difference there. 13:18 So how do you address that individual who, 13:21 you know, they say, you know, Pastor, 13:23 when I was seven, eight, nine years old, 13:25 I was molested by uncle or an aunt 13:27 or someone in my family. 13:29 As a result that kind of put me on a spiral out of control. 13:32 I've committed that, 13:33 you know, I've been part of a homosexual lifestyle 13:35 and I feel like I've done that abominable act, 13:39 will God accept me? 13:40 How can I come back from that? 13:42 Like where is the hope, 13:43 what do we say to that individual? 13:45 The first step as a church 13:46 we need to do away with the pyramid structure of sins, 13:50 so at the bottom we have white lies, 13:54 maybe using profanity 13:56 and then on top we have 13:58 child molestation and homosexuality. 14:01 So then that member does feel like 14:03 I have committed the abominable act. 14:06 I am up here on the top 14:08 where sins exist that God cannot free 14:11 where His restoration has no type of remedy, 14:16 or it cannot medicate my problem. 14:19 Man, we have to bring everything down 14:21 to the same level and say, "No, all have sinned 14:23 and all have come short of the glory of God. 14:26 But if I confess my sin, 14:28 He is faithful and just to forgive my sins." 14:31 And I think the important thing in understanding sin 14:33 is that God's issue was sin is not the stuff we see. 14:37 It's what it does 14:38 to the relationship between us and Him. 14:40 That's His biggest issue with it. 14:41 So whether it is the lie 14:43 or this, His thing is 14:44 sin just gets in between fellowship and relationship. 14:48 And I think the pyramid structure 14:49 that we see established in the church 14:52 is because the church almost deals with sin 14:55 based off consequences. 14:58 And so if you tell a white lie 15:00 compared to if you are a child molester, 15:03 there is much more significant consequences 15:05 for being a child molester. 15:06 You go to jail, destroy your family. 15:09 As a whole if you tell white lie 15:10 well, you can rebound from that pretty quickly. 15:12 And so we judge it based of off consequences... 15:14 Will they put him on the cross? Right. 15:16 But at the end of the day 15:17 when you tell white lie 15:19 or whether you're a child molester 15:20 is just as detrimental to your walk with God. 15:22 It's just as detrimental to your eternal salvation. 15:24 So I like what you're saying, 15:25 how can we level the playing field 15:27 and put them all on the same level. 15:28 And now that they're on the same playing field, 15:30 how then do we address it? 15:31 The same way that we would address every sin, 15:34 point to Christ. 15:35 Well, but I think that within the church context though 15:38 and this is where we have to be sensitive within the church. 15:41 You know, there's a history of, 15:43 you know, just really being insensitive to people 15:47 really dealing with the issue of homosexuality 15:50 the way that we preach, 15:51 the way that we talk is just very insensitive. 15:55 And so it doesn't create an environment 15:56 where someone that's struggling with homosexuality 16:00 can really feel safe 16:03 to know that Jesus can help you and... 16:05 Redemption. 16:06 In a community where people 16:08 while we love you and we hate the sin 16:11 are here to help you go through this very difficult thing. 16:14 And that needs to be with any sin. 16:16 What I mean but especially, 16:18 you know, we just have to be more sensitive 16:19 within the body of Christ. 16:21 You know, Lola, you were telling something, 16:22 you know, off air in the back 16:24 about a situation with somebody, 16:26 you know, who is struggling with that 16:28 and I think that's real powerful for this situation. 16:30 Absolutely, I was speaking to a person 16:32 who has a profession of counseling. 16:34 And one of their, a person who they were in relationship with 16:40 actually came to them 16:41 and happened to be living a homosexual lifestyle. 16:45 That wasn't the reason why they had a conversation 16:47 or why they were in relationship. 16:49 But this was a part of this other individual's life. 16:51 In the course of time as they related to one another 16:54 and talked about some real issues 16:57 and opened up to one another. 16:59 The person living a homosexual lifestyle 17:01 actually asked this individual, 17:04 "You know, what do you think about my lifestyle, 17:06 is this something that you think I need to change?" 17:10 I'm realizing that the need that individuals are having 17:14 who were struggling with any type of sin 17:17 is love and acceptance. 17:19 Not acceptance of their sin but acceptance of the person. 17:22 And once an individual feel safe and loved, 17:26 then they will be open to hear 17:28 whatever it is that we have to say about 17:30 what God says about our lifestyles. 17:32 You know, I like that. 17:33 The best illustration I've ever heard 17:35 when it comes to how the church should relate to individuals 17:38 who may be homosexual 17:39 but anyone who is struggling with any sin 17:41 as we all struggle, 17:42 and we have different issues in our lives 17:44 is that God judges, the Holy Spirit convicts 17:49 and the church loves. 17:51 Like that should be our approach, 17:52 God judges, Holy Spirit convicts 17:54 and the church loves. 17:55 What's our responsibility? 17:57 It's to love. 17:58 Now love like you said is not well, 18:00 and let me accept this thing 18:02 and doesn't matter what you're doing. 18:04 No, love is yes, I accept you. 18:06 I want to help you, I want to pray for you, 18:08 I want to challenge you. 18:09 You know, we need that kind of ability. 18:11 Love is a kind of ability. 18:12 You know, so that if you know I'm struggling today. 18:15 Well, listen, let me make sure that you don't go deviate. 18:17 Let me make sure you stay on the right path. 18:19 But there's a word that just has to be in our churches, 18:22 in our minds and in our lives 18:24 and that's the idea of being saved. 18:25 One thing I love about Christ that He was safe. 18:28 He was safe to come through in an approach 18:30 and I know one of the things in my church 18:32 I did some very specific talks on homosexuality 18:36 and it created, 18:38 you know, in that timeframe a safe environment 18:41 where people can say, "Okay, we're going to talk about it, 18:44 we're educated about it." 18:45 So now if I come out with this or you see me with, 18:48 you're struggling with something, 18:50 I know it's not going to be ashamed and all that. 18:53 I'm not expecting 18:55 because there is a group that says 18:56 you need to accept me the way I am. 18:57 I'm saying just like I wouldn't accept 18:59 someone's always lying to my face 19:01 and say, "Oh, that's fine, keep lying" don't accept that, 19:03 but there has to be a safe environment 19:05 where people because let me tell you, 19:06 there are young people 19:08 I know who are even watching right now, 19:09 who are in our churches, 19:11 who are being bombarded with it on T.V. 19:13 saying that, "It's okay." 19:15 They're struggling with it 19:16 and what happens is 19:18 when they don't find that love and acceptance 19:20 amongst the church, it is not safe in the church. 19:23 Oh, there's a very safe environment in other places. 19:26 And that safe environment 19:27 unfortunately, usually is feeding that lifestyle. 19:31 And let me tell you, 19:33 the goal of a lot of people is to feel safe. 19:35 And one of the measurements of safety 19:37 is one feels listened to. 19:40 So we look at James 5 where it says, 19:42 "Confess your faults one to another, 19:44 and you will be healed." 19:46 What James is saying is that 19:47 the early Christian church was so together 19:49 and had created such a safe environment 19:52 that I had accountability partners 19:54 in my church family 19:56 where I can tell them what I'm struggling with. 19:59 Currently the homosexual demographic in our churches 20:03 does not feel as if we're here to listen to them. 20:06 And therefore according to James, 20:08 I think they are missing out on some of the healing power 20:11 of being able to talk about the issue. 20:13 That's powerful. That's powerful. 20:15 So we have someone who's struggling. 20:17 We recognize the role that a church should play 20:19 in demonstrating love, 20:20 but what are the tools can we give that individual 20:22 who says listen, you know, Pastor, 20:24 I'm in a homosexual lifestyle, 20:25 I don't want to be in this lifestyle, 20:27 I want victory over this thing 20:29 but I'm just bound. 20:31 What do I do? 20:32 What do I need? Help me. 20:34 What do we say to that person? 20:35 You know, I think the first step 20:37 with anything usually that homosexual lifestyle 20:41 because of we talked about me having a safe environment 20:43 is usually a secret 20:44 except the people I'm engaging with, 20:46 you've got to find someone outside of that circle 20:49 and you've got to share. 20:51 And that doesn't have to be a pastor 20:53 but just somebody who you know. 20:55 And who you say I can get them. 20:57 Someone who is spiritual. 20:58 Yeah, who I can get out. 21:01 I need to be able to get that out. 21:02 You've got to because the devil loves secrecy. 21:05 The moment it's out in the open 21:07 that's when I think God to do something. 21:09 Yeah, He had to do something with that. 21:10 Right, right, right. 21:11 So I tell somebody. 21:13 I tell my brother, I tell the pastor, 21:14 I tell one of the elders 21:16 who have a good relationship with in the church. 21:17 I tell... Spiritually minded. 21:19 Yes, spiritual people, I tell someone... 21:21 Just keep emphasizing that. Yeah. 21:22 Don't just blur it to anybody... 21:24 Yeah, don't just tell anybody. 21:25 You want to be very clear with others. 21:26 So don't tell anybody 21:28 but you go to someone 21:29 that you really feel knows the Lord, 21:31 a prayer warrior, someone that you can connect with. 21:32 So I tell them then what? 21:34 What do I do? What's the next step? 21:35 It was said in our previous program. 21:38 And I think I want to reiterate now 21:39 because it's very powerful 21:41 that you also have to enlist the support of professionals. 21:45 A professional counselor or someone who's well versed 21:49 and that type of mindset. 21:51 If you're trying to get out, 21:53 understand that the enemy is going to do 21:54 all that he can to keep you in. 21:57 And so you have to get 21:58 as much reinforcement as you can to get out. 22:01 So along with spiritually minded people 22:03 who are praying you up 22:04 and who are surrounding you, 22:05 you also need some professional help who's, 22:07 individuals who gonna help you work through 22:11 all of the things that you're going to face 22:13 as you try to exit that lifestyle. 22:15 So I mean, what I hear you saying 22:16 mean for that person who's 17, 18, 19 22:18 and they're struggling. 22:20 Even 21 however, old you are 22:22 that they need to seek some type of professional help. 22:24 They need to seek some type of... 22:26 We talked about it in one of the other programs 22:28 about understanding the triggers, 22:30 you know, why do I do what I do? 22:32 Where is this coming from? 22:33 Why do I have this affinity 22:34 towards someone of the same sex? 22:36 Why do I have flow like this? 22:37 So I need to help, I need to understand that. 22:39 I want to clarify though 22:40 because I don't want someone to get the impression that, 22:43 oh, because I, you know, I have a let's say 22:47 homosexual lifestyle, 22:48 all of a sudden I need to go see someone cares. 22:50 I will even go I would tell somebody 22:53 who is extremely promiscuous with the opposite sex. 22:57 See that sexual part of it 23:00 is what I think the outside help does become is, 23:04 I don't, I guess I don't want the person to be, 23:06 "Oh well, so somebody who's going around 23:07 sleeping with a bunch of girls 23:09 Dear God, they need the help". 23:10 They can just pray that thing away. 23:12 No, you might leave that as well too. 23:15 Yeah, and you know somebody 23:16 but it can't just be anybody I think, 23:18 you know, a Christian counselor who has that same principle 23:21 because we're operating under the premise 23:23 that I'm not in the ideal 23:25 and I want to get back to God's original plan, 23:29 not just for my behavior but my thoughts. 23:32 Not just for my thoughts but my actions 23:34 for in my holistic way of life. 23:35 And I also believe that the individual struggling 23:37 has to accept that my sin is not special. 23:41 Although everything in my environment 23:43 is trying to convince me 23:45 that this issue is special. 23:49 It's different than all the other sins. 23:51 No, the stuff that the pastor is talking about 23:54 to the alcoholic 23:55 or the one who is having substance abuse problems. 23:58 That stuff is not going to work for my issue 24:00 because my sin is special. 24:02 No, you have to come to the point where you accept, 24:04 no, my sin is just a sin. 24:06 So the same thing that Christ prescribes 24:09 for the person dealing with adultery 24:11 is the same thing He will prescribe for you. 24:14 And if I can jump in real quick 24:15 because I know within our culture 24:18 there's a stigma that comes with seeking professional help 24:21 or seeking counseling. 24:22 And what we're saying here 24:24 is that a counselor will have some tools 24:27 that the average church member won't have. 24:30 And we're in need of those tools. 24:32 The professional has the tools, they know how to utilize them 24:35 and that's why we go to the professional. 24:37 Not because we're crazy as Pastor Kelly said before. 24:40 Not because, you know, there's something wrong with us, 24:43 but because we need the tools, 24:45 and the professional can provide the tools 24:47 to give us the deliverance that we need. 24:49 In addition to that, 24:51 what role does my walk with the Lord play in this thing? 24:54 You know, can I just pray it away? 24:57 You know, can I just, you know, fast and labor over this thing, 25:00 and, you know, somehow, you know, how... 25:03 I don't know if that's a straight yes or no. 25:06 I mean, some people that's how it's able to... 25:10 It might be able to manifest itself 25:12 depending on lets say maybe how early 25:13 and different ways you catch it. 25:15 We've got to understand though 25:16 that sometimes sin 25:17 and this is where the earthly consequences come in. 25:20 And with them so slick 25:21 I mean, I hate to give him props with this. 25:23 But he's gotten to the point now 25:25 where sin now affects you 25:26 biologically and physically 25:29 where God says, your prayers gain and God does that. 25:32 He says but the prayer sometimes might lead you 25:34 to have to do certain other things, other things with... 25:38 I don't want to let anyone think 25:40 that prayer isn't important, 25:41 to walk with God isn't important, 25:43 that will do it. 25:44 And when you're connected 25:46 I think He'll tell you, "You know what? 25:47 Let's go in this direction to fix that." 25:50 Or God might say, "You know, stay right here. 25:52 Because I'm about to do something real in your life, 25:53 stay right here." 25:55 You know, we have some deep rooted stuff in our lives. 25:58 You know, and so we don't want 25:59 to just give a surface treatment, 26:01 that's why here you guys are saying, 26:02 we don't want to give a surface treatment. 26:04 You know, and think that we can just kind of 26:05 make up our minds to change and change. 26:07 No, a lot of this stuff it stems very, very deep 26:09 into our past baggage, 26:12 our genealogies, our parents, just our DNA. 26:15 I called it DNA deep sin. 26:17 So that was passed down to us 26:18 from one generation to the next. 26:19 And Pastor Seth, I think 26:21 that when we start discussing homosexuality. 26:23 And we start almost couching it 26:26 as if it's the super sin. 26:29 And we start dealing with it as if 26:30 "Man, it's going to be hard to overcome this." 26:32 That's when we really start seeing 26:35 how hard it will be to overcome our stuff. 26:38 That's when the power of sin really starts to surface 26:41 and we start to see how helpless we are. 26:44 And we need to stop applying our helplessness 26:47 only to the tier of super sins 26:49 but to all sin. 26:51 This is a problem. Yeah, and I'll agree. 26:53 That's why I would say that no matter what the struggle is 26:56 homosexuality, you know, immorality 26:59 if you're sleeping with, you know, 100 women 27:00 or whatever issue is 27:02 that number one I think accountability is good 27:04 and counseling is good, 27:06 but your walk with the Lord. 27:08 I mean, when you bathe yourself in the Word of God. 27:10 When you bathe yourself in prayer, 27:12 that plays a significant role in the victory process. 27:16 Right, but it's also remembering in that 27:18 because the reason why you're doing that 27:20 is because it's going to be a struggle. 27:23 And I think Pastor Moore talked about is going to be a battle. 27:26 And, you know, it's going to be constantly something 27:30 where you're going to need the strength of God. 27:33 Where there's going to be a tension 27:34 where you could easily fall back into. 27:37 And, you know, I think there's sometimes, 27:38 you know, God still delivers in different ways. 27:40 Some people they're delivered completely, 27:43 they don't have any inkling towards it anymore. 27:46 But like others some may have the thorn in the flesh 27:48 where you just are constantly aware, 27:51 all of us are always in need of Christ. 27:54 But it's just, there is that there is ever before you. 27:57 And so there's that struggle, there's a lot of struggle. 27:59 You know, this thing is, I mean I wish we had more time, 28:04 there's no way that we can just 28:05 really tackled this entire topic 28:07 in a 30 minute segment. 28:08 You know, that's why we started our Facebook page 28:11 at purechoicesfacebook./ purechoices, 28:13 where you can look us up. 28:15 You can ask us question, you can inbox us. 28:18 If you need some assistance, 28:19 we'll be more than willing to help you 28:21 find individuals in your community that can help, 28:23 you know, allow you get victory over whatever your struggle is. 28:26 Unfortunately, we're out of time today. 28:27 I want to thank you for joining us. 28:29 I look forward to do it again 28:31 next week, same time, same place. 28:33 We look forward to seeing you there. |
Revised 2017-08-28