Pure Choices

Sexuality In The Church

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Seth Yelorda (Host), Alfonzo Greene, Lola Moore, Michael Kelley, Michael Polite


Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000008

00:30 Welcome to Pure Choices.
00:31 I'm so glad that you decided to join us again
00:33 for another exciting and dynamic episode.
00:35 Up unto this point,
00:36 we've been dealing with some very tough topics.
00:38 And we believe that God has given us grace
00:40 to really deal with them
00:41 in a way they will edify people.
00:42 And so we're going to do same today.
00:44 We have an exciting discussion ahead of us.
00:45 But before we get to that,
00:47 I want to take a moment
00:48 just to introduce our panel again.
00:50 We have Pastor Alfonzo Greene
00:51 who's here with us from the first church
00:53 in Huntsville, Alabama.
00:55 We have Pastor Michael Polite
00:57 who joins us all the way from Nashville, Tennessee
00:59 at the Riverside Chapel SDA Church.
01:01 We have Pastor Lola Moore,
01:02 who is at the Oakwood University church
01:05 in Huntsville, Alabama.
01:06 And then we have Mr. Hollywood himself,
01:08 Pastor Michael B Kelley
01:10 all the way from Riverside California
01:13 where he's at the Mt. Rubidioux church.
01:15 And I'm your host Pastor Seth Yelorda.
01:18 And today, we want to our topic to be
01:20 is we want to discuss sex within the church,
01:23 sex and sexuality within the church.
01:25 We know that growing up in the church,
01:26 sex is not something
01:27 that is really talked about a whole lot.
01:29 You may get a few rap sessions here
01:31 and there about sex,
01:33 but when it comes to sexual sin within the church,
01:35 it's kind of like, hush, hush, sweeping under the rug,
01:37 elephant in the room,
01:39 that's kind of avoiding and not really tackle it.
01:41 And I personally believe that
01:42 the lack of the church's response
01:45 to a proactive response in dealing with it
01:47 has allowed much of it to come more alive
01:50 than what it needs to be.
01:52 And so we really want to do this thing.
01:53 Now before I open up for you guys,
01:55 I was doing a little history and research
01:57 on the history of sex and sexuality
02:00 just within the church historically.
02:02 And I came upon
02:03 some very interesting information
02:05 that I just want to share with you if I may.
02:08 And it stems all the way back to the Middle Ages,
02:10 where in the Middle Ages,
02:12 what the church was doing then
02:14 was the church was forbidding sex 40 days
02:18 before Christmas and 40 days
02:22 before and 8 days after Easter.
02:25 So you can have sex before 40 days for Christmas.
02:27 Help us, Lord.
02:28 And when it came to Easter,
02:30 you can have sex four days before Easter
02:31 or eight days after Easter.
02:32 So we're up to 88 days, right? So you got some days, right.
02:35 And then you couldn't have sex eight days after Pentecost.
02:39 All right, y'all keeping tally? Eight days after Pentecost.
02:42 You could not have sex on the eves of any feast days.
02:46 Feasts of the Trumpet, Feasts of the Tabernacle,
02:49 you have Enoch's feast,
02:50 you can have sex on the eves of those feasts.
02:53 You couldn't have sex on Sundays
02:54 and on the Resurrection.
02:56 You couldn't have sex... Every Sunday?
02:58 Any Sunday. Wow.
02:59 And on the Resurrection.
03:01 Could not have sex on Wednesdays
03:04 to call to mind the beginning of Lent.
03:07 Could not have sex on Fridays in memory of crucifixion.
03:12 Could not have sex during pregnancy.
03:14 Could not have sex thirty days after birth.
03:17 And if it was a female child 40 days after birth.
03:21 Could not have sex
03:23 if your spouse was on her menstrual cycle.
03:26 And you could not have sex five days
03:28 before communion
03:30 which when you add up all those days
03:32 it comes up to 252 days
03:35 that you could not have sex.
03:37 Out of 365? Yes.
03:39 But that's not including the feast days.
03:41 And some suggest that they were about 30 feast days.
03:44 So you've got 252 plus 30 is what?
03:47 Two hundred eighty two. Yeah, a whole lot.
03:49 Yeah, right. Minus 365.
03:52 Too many days. Minus 365.
03:54 So there's only like what 83 days
03:56 that they allowed you to actually have sex.
03:59 That's assuming now
04:00 that your wife was in on her cycle
04:01 at that time or that she was not pregnant.
04:03 And so when you look at this,
04:05 I mean, history reveals that their basic ideas of sex
04:10 was kind of passed down from one generation to the next
04:13 where it was kind of rooted in Origen
04:16 and Clement of Alexandria
04:17 where they have these thoughts and these theories
04:19 that sex is dirty,
04:20 sex was a part of the original sin.
04:22 And so it was not something that was advocated,
04:24 it was not something that was embraced
04:27 or encouraged even amongst married couples.
04:30 It's almost like history shows
04:31 that the church has taught us to deny sex.
04:35 And then the other in, the world has taught us
04:37 that sex should be distorted
04:39 or that the world has distorted sex.
04:41 So somewhere between the church denying it
04:44 and the world distorting it,
04:46 we know that God's ideal is somewhere in there.
04:48 But today, we really want to deal with,
04:50 you know, the church's response to sexual sin
04:53 and sexuality in the church,
04:54 and where do we go from here, how can we make it up,
04:56 you know, how could we deal with this thing in the church.
04:58 Sadly, I think our church has done a bad job
05:03 of making things that trip us up often taboo.
05:07 So if dance for example trips up
05:11 a lot of people, then it's taboo, no dance.
05:15 And I think sexuality has been taken the same way.
05:18 Since it trips up so many people,
05:21 now there is this clarion call on a trumpet heralding
05:26 "No sex, no sex."
05:28 Hoping that if we stay away from the thing,
05:31 then our sinful nature won't come out,
05:33 and I don't think that's what happened.
05:35 Yeah, you know Christ says something about
05:38 how we can substitute some times
05:40 the teachings of men for the teachings of God.
05:43 And just a cursory view of scripture will show us
05:47 that just in the first two chapters
05:49 of scripture in Genesis,
05:51 sex is there before the tree, before sin comes in.
05:55 God says the two will become one flesh.
05:57 So it's a part of God's original plan
06:00 for His people to be sexually engaged
06:03 with the partner that He provides for them.
06:06 But what we have done
06:07 or what we have allowed the enemy to do
06:09 is to spin sex in a certain kind of way
06:12 that only those who are weak-willed,
06:15 only those who are connected with,
06:17 you know, the vicissitudes of life
06:19 or whatever are ones who are engaging.
06:22 And that's so contrary to what God has...
06:24 Especially if you look at the Song of Solomon,
06:28 you know, you see this high
06:30 and exalted picture of sex, you know.
06:33 Very detailed. You know, very detailed.
06:34 It's interesting because, you know, I've gone around,
06:36 as I know some of you as well
06:38 and I spoken in various locations.
06:39 And I've been very open and honest and transparent
06:41 about my own sexual past, and the mistakes I've made,
06:44 and how God has given me victory.
06:46 And you won't believe
06:47 how many people come up to me afterwards and say,
06:49 "Hey, man, just thank you so much
06:50 for just being open and transparent."
06:52 And through my transparency,
06:53 it's almost like I'm bringing them deliverance.
06:55 And they're saying,
06:56 "Man, okay, if he has some struggles with it,
06:58 I mean, if God was able to give him victory,
07:00 then what does that say about me,
07:01 that I too can experience victory."
07:03 And I think that kind of speaks of the larger issue
07:05 with Christianity in general.
07:07 And that is that
07:08 because there's a focus on how the external
07:11 and how people perceives other people,
07:14 it creates an environment
07:16 where when I have struggles
07:18 or when I'm dealing with certain issues,
07:20 I don't feel open
07:21 with just being transparent in sharing
07:24 because I'm trying to keep up a certain image
07:26 or trying to project...
07:28 Kind of facade. Right.
07:29 Not understanding that all of us are sinners
07:32 and come short of the glory of God,
07:33 and all of us are striving
07:35 to become all that God would have us to be.
07:37 So we have an environment
07:38 where it's about how do I appear,
07:41 it creates a situation where you can't be authentic.
07:45 And I think in order to be able to deal
07:49 with the sexual deviances and issues
07:52 and people feeling comfortable to come out,
07:54 what the church as a whole needs to understand
07:56 and present is
07:58 and what we're trying to do here is
08:00 what God ideal is for?
08:01 And that it is literally
08:03 one of the most beautiful things
08:06 that God has ever given to mankind.
08:09 And when you feel comfortable saying,
08:12 "Hey, this is not like this weird thing
08:14 that the world created,"
08:16 that's the thing that gets me sometimes about
08:17 we did not make up sex, God did.
08:20 It's completely a God thing.
08:23 And if it's a God thing, it must be a spiritual thing.
08:25 So why would we be afraid to address something
08:29 that's as spiritual as...
08:31 You know, even though we know that there are still couples
08:33 who anytime they engage in sex with their spouse,
08:36 you know, they feel like the God's not there,
08:39 He is separated.
08:41 I've even heard so far where a couple picture of Jesus
08:43 on their mantle but whenever they have sex,
08:45 they would turn the picture away
08:47 that they don't want like Jesus looking at them
08:49 when they're having sex.
08:50 Well, you know, this is a God created sex.
08:52 The angels are there. Yeah. The angels are there.
08:55 And, you know, in fact, Jewish thought go so far to say
08:58 that when a husband and wife come together
09:01 and experience selfless sex
09:03 which means
09:05 that I'm totally focusing on my spouse
09:06 and she's totally focusing on me,
09:08 when the husband and wife coming together and experience
09:09 the God's ideal for them
09:12 that actually that's a kind of glory of God
09:14 rest in between them while they're having sex.
09:15 Wow.
09:17 It's a kind of glory being that same glory
09:18 that was in the most holy place,
09:20 you know, the same glory
09:21 that consumed the burning tree that...
09:22 the burning bush that did not burn,
09:24 you know, that same glory rest upon a couple...
09:26 And that being said,
09:28 there are still going to be some
09:30 who watch this and say,
09:31 "We should not have sex on Sabbath."
09:34 Well, why not?
09:35 If the Creator of the Sabbath made it holy,
09:39 and then he made sex holy, they seem to go together to me.
09:43 I mean, we can go so far as to say the Adam and Eve
09:46 were created on the sixth day, probably late in the day.
09:50 They're getting to know each other
09:51 after the sun is setting.
09:52 You know what I'm saying
09:54 they're consecrating their marriage,
09:55 you know, holy time on the first Sabbath, you know.
09:58 Yes. Hallelujah.
10:00 But that's what I absolute received all of that.
10:04 You know, I think the thing is
10:06 we just what we're saying now
10:07 like what you just said about that is it's kind of glory.
10:10 You know, I'm 31 years old.
10:13 And, you know, that's first some of heard you know that.
10:17 And but I have heard everything else.
10:19 And so that's why this program
10:22 and it needs to be translated in another youth groups.
10:24 It needs to be said from the pulpit now,
10:26 any time I talk about sex
10:28 I do give a disclaimer to my church,
10:29 "Hey, listen
10:31 this is what we're going to be talking about next week.
10:32 Make sure, you know, your young ones are there."
10:34 But it's got to be said
10:36 because the world gives us their version.
10:38 Here's the thing
10:39 that I think is made us really silly
10:41 I hate to say sometimes as a church,
10:43 we act like we don't talk about it,
10:45 they're not going to hear it.
10:47 They're absolutely going to hear it.
10:48 They hear it on the TV, they hear at school here,
10:50 they hear it from their friends.
10:52 So my thing is let's give them at least another version
10:56 which obviously we believe is the correct one.
10:59 Let's give you something to choose from.
11:00 "Okay, you heard this, you heard this.
11:02 But you don't hear it from the church.
11:03 So now you don't have anything to filter through it."
11:05 And more than what you listen from church
11:06 rather just don't do it.
11:08 It has to be more, just don't do it.
11:09 You know, that's what I
11:10 because I spoke it up at a place here recently.
11:13 And someone came up to me they said,
11:15 "Pastor, why don't we hear this on Saturday mornings
11:18 from the pulpit?
11:20 Why aren't our churches talking about this?
11:21 Why aren't we dealing with this?
11:22 Why aren't the youth groups that are centered around
11:24 giving us a true biblical picture
11:27 of what sex is to be in God's ideal."
11:30 This year, I have my experience,
11:32 my first experience preaching sex
11:35 from the pulpit on Saturday morning,
11:37 we dealt with it through the life of Samson.
11:41 And seeing how Samson's life
11:44 was really deeply rooted in this issue of sexuality.
11:48 Yeah. Big time.
11:50 And after the service,
11:52 there is this 82-year-old woman in my church.
11:55 And she just comes strolling to us,
11:57 you know, she got her walker,
11:59 and she motions me to come down.
12:00 So I'm thinking
12:02 I'm about to get rebuked by this sister
12:04 who doesn't feel this belongs in the church at this time.
12:06 I lean down, and she says,
12:08 "Where were you 65 years ago?"
12:14 And I was just like, "Wow."
12:15 She went on to say she had never in her life
12:20 ever heard a preacher give a treatment to what God's ideal
12:24 is for sexuality on Sabbath morning.
12:27 And it was just amazing. What are we afraid of?
12:29 Well, I mean in I think it's the church.
12:31 I mean, I think that culture is beginning to change.
12:33 I think that there was a culture
12:35 where there were just some things
12:36 that were not acceptable kind of rooting
12:37 and what you talked about at the beginning
12:39 as far as the negative view of sex
12:41 that it's not something that's holy,
12:43 that's undefiled,
12:44 that is a blessing within the context of marriage.
12:46 But I think what you're seeing now
12:48 because what we're seeing in society is a shift.
12:51 And, you know, people of all different faiths
12:54 are beginning to take this up
12:56 and beginning to kind of talk about
12:57 what God's ideal is as relates to sexuality.
13:00 So I think you're seeing a shift,
13:02 it's not, you know, overwhelming
13:03 but you have seen
13:05 more and more sermons like Pastor Polite
13:07 that are just talking about sexuality.
13:09 But you know with that,
13:10 we're feeding into something and let me say
13:12 that's how slick the devil is.
13:13 You know, from this perspective, see,
13:15 if we don't talk about it,
13:17 then if I'm struggling with it
13:18 I won't go to the church first to try,
13:21 you know, and get whatever type of help
13:24 or understanding I can get.
13:25 And we've created these monsters
13:27 where we said no sex,
13:29 no sex, no sex, the more I hear that,
13:31 well, all of a sudden when I get married,
13:32 am I going to think that sex is this great,
13:34 wonderful thing
13:35 'cause I've never even heard about it in that context.
13:37 And so we just have to be
13:39 I think bold and there might be
13:40 some hits we might take or sharing it people say,
13:43 "Oh, that's just inappropriate."
13:44 But at the end of the day
13:46 I do believe one of the number one killers
13:47 for young people in our generation is sex.
13:50 It's knocking us out and is doing it.
13:52 And the Bible says,
13:54 "My people perish for a lack of knowledge."
13:56 Yeah.
13:57 I'm thinking that is general lack of knowledge.
14:01 People who are generally unaware
14:05 that sex is something that God has ordained,
14:08 there's an Old Testament scholar
14:10 who I studied under at the Seventh-day Adventist
14:12 Theological Seminary,
14:14 Richard Davidson maybe
14:15 or some of you studied with him.
14:17 And he just wrote a book not long ago called
14:20 The Flame of Yahweh.
14:21 That thing is about 10 pounds heavy,
14:23 you know, with references
14:26 about sexuality in the Old Testament.
14:29 So this is the God that people are,
14:31 you know, are afraid of, they're not sure
14:33 if this is the same God as the New Testament God.
14:35 But there are thousands of references
14:39 to the holiness and the sacredness of sexuality
14:42 in the Old Testament.
14:44 But I honestly would not have been knowledgeable
14:47 of that unless somebody had gone
14:49 before me and done this study.
14:51 I really believe
14:53 that we who are theologically trained
14:54 and we who are purveyors of truth
14:56 have to be more cognizant of studying
15:01 about what is sexuality about from the scriptural record.
15:03 You know, excuse me.
15:05 And I sat in one of Richard Davidson's class
15:06 when I was there.
15:08 He was the first person I've ever heard,
15:09 he was a strong advocate of what you just said
15:11 encouraging couples to have sex on the Sabbath,
15:13 you know, from a biblical standpoint.
15:15 It's almost like a high Sabbath.
15:19 You know, and of course,
15:20 I mean, it blew my mind, it blew my mind.
15:23 But like you said,
15:24 it was totally rooted in the Word of God.
15:27 But going back to what you're saying
15:28 I'll never forget one day several years ago,
15:30 I was watching television
15:31 and Kirk Franklin was doing an interview on television,
15:34 I don't know if you saw it with Oprah.
15:35 And he was talking to her about
15:37 his personal sexual struggles in the past.
15:39 And when he was talking,
15:41 he was saying how he struggled with pornography,
15:42 that type of thing, and then he got married.
15:44 And in his struggle
15:45 when he was growing up as a child,
15:47 he says this, he said that, in my struggle he recognized
15:50 that this was a right but this is wrong.
15:52 So he went to his pastor and he said,
15:54 "Listen, I've been struggling with,
15:56 you know, with pornography,
15:57 I've been struggling with the sexual sin,
15:59 you know, I'm a young boy.
16:00 You know, can you give me
16:01 some type of something
16:03 to give me some direction here."
16:04 And the pastor
16:06 according to what Kirk Franklin says
16:07 looked back at him, and said,
16:08 "Oh, don't worry about it, you'll grow out of it."
16:11 And when he said
16:12 that Kirk Franklin response in his mind
16:14 was at that moment,
16:16 the pastor just spoke death into him
16:18 because he left that office feeling
16:20 as though this isn't that bad
16:23 and eventually one day, it will go away.
16:26 But what happened was actually the reverse,
16:29 the longer he kept doing it,
16:30 the stronger it became to the point
16:32 where now he's married,
16:34 he's in, you know, with his bride
16:35 and it's still a part
16:37 of his sexual experience even with his wife.
16:40 You know, which shows you
16:41 the other extreme of what the church can do
16:44 is like when we really don't deal with in
16:46 appropriate biblical way,
16:48 we're speaking death to our kids,
16:49 we're speaking death to our young people.
16:51 I mean, how many people say in our churches
16:54 every single Sabbath that we know
16:55 or that we may not know
16:56 but are struggling with sexual sin.
16:58 And we don't say anything about it,
16:59 you know, when we're preaching over their heads,
17:01 you know, then it's just like
17:02 we're not really dealing with the heart,
17:04 the root of the issue.
17:05 And I think
17:07 we could really take some guidance from education
17:11 which seems to suggest
17:13 that children will confide in to a teacher
17:18 what they're struggling with if they see
17:21 that teacher as a positive motivator
17:24 the majority of the time.
17:26 So if I see this teacher standing
17:28 before me every day,
17:29 and all I'm getting is negative vibes
17:30 from that when I'm not doing right.
17:32 What I shouldn't do?
17:34 When the rules of their classroom
17:36 are opposed like thou
17:38 shall not focus on the negative,
17:40 I as a student
17:41 and way less likely to ever tell
17:43 that teacher anything about my personal struggle.
17:46 But if that teacher represents a positive force,
17:50 a positive motivator,
17:52 a place or a being
17:54 that I'm always at in front of being impacted by.
17:59 It's just awkward, it's just wonderful to me.
18:02 I am going to be able to sit down
18:03 with that teacher one day and say,
18:05 "I got some issues, and I wanted to know
18:07 if you have any advice for me."
18:09 And sadly, the church is all too often
18:12 the example of the negative teacher
18:14 versus the positive.
18:16 And I mean, I was struggling
18:18 when you're talking about hearing certain messages
18:21 about sexuality from the pulpit
18:23 because there are certain individuals
18:25 who I don't want talking about sexuality from the pulpit
18:29 because they are not a positive motivator.
18:32 And the messages that they will portray
18:34 will possibly be these messages of guilt,
18:37 these messages
18:38 that portray sexuality as dirty or as of the flesh.
18:42 And I'm thinking
18:44 that if a person is going to speak about sexuality
18:46 from the pulpit
18:48 and be a voice for what God wants
18:51 that they ought to do due diligence
18:53 and be deeply grounded
18:55 and what the Bible actually says about sexuality,
18:59 I don't want everybody preaching about sexuality.
19:01 You know, one of their pet peeves
19:02 or riding their hobbyhorse...
19:04 You're trying to shock me by saying penis or vagina
19:07 and it's like, "Oh, my goodness."
19:09 Or if they're not yet mastering their own demons
19:14 with regard to sexuality,
19:16 and some people have some sexual hang ups
19:18 and aren't ready to speak about it,
19:19 I don't want everybody talking about it.
19:21 You know, people have come to me
19:22 after I've shared my experience with pornography
19:24 and things of that nature and illicit sex and they say,
19:26 "You know, Pastor,
19:27 it's just a little bit too much,
19:29 you know, you're the pastor,
19:30 we're not supposed to look at you in this light."
19:32 And like I shouldn't be sharing it,
19:35 and my response is,
19:36 "Listen, I have nothing to be ashamed
19:38 of what I've gotten victory over."
19:40 You know, when God gives me victory
19:41 over something my responsibility
19:43 is then to turn
19:45 and help somebody else give victory.
19:46 I didn't want to say I boast in my weakness.
19:48 What I mean by that is that,
19:51 you know, as God has given you the victory,
19:53 how would someone else be able to know
19:56 that God is able to deliver
19:58 if they cannot see something tangible?
20:01 You know, we talk we could say,
20:02 "Hey, God can deliver, God can deliver."
20:04 But, man, when I actually see
20:06 that you were struggling with the very same thing...
20:08 That overcame by the word of the testimony.
20:10 But there is a very powerful appeal.
20:13 And the first person I heard it do it
20:14 was Pastor Ronnie Vanderhorst.
20:16 And one of the things
20:18 he did is before he made his appeal,
20:19 he said before I do anything, he's like,
20:21 "I need someone who overcome, struggled with alcoholism,
20:24 stand up."
20:25 And you've overcome, so you will stand up.
20:27 He goes through a list of changes,
20:29 all the different kind of stuff.
20:30 And he turns to, you know,
20:32 'cause this for you that he says,
20:33 "No, you know, people you just have proof
20:35 that God can help you overcome."
20:38 You know, somebody come to Christ
20:39 and it's just amazing
20:41 'cause you have to see that but what He did also help
20:44 that church in not just that moment
20:46 but now there was a safe environment
20:48 that was created that says, "Wait a second."
20:51 I just say show it to everybody
20:53 "Hey, I've had something I've dealt with
20:55 and I've been able to overcome it."
20:56 And that's why I think
20:58 we need to strive to do with sex,
20:59 and by creating that safe environment
21:01 is not being afraid to have a group.
21:04 You're struggling with pornography,
21:06 we've got some experts and people who know,
21:08 we're going to have a support group right here
21:11 at the church
21:12 and people who are studying with it.
21:13 And if you create the environment
21:15 where whoever you see come in and out of that room
21:17 you're not like "Whoa, whoa, watch that."
21:19 But I tell you, people will come out
21:20 'cause here's the thing
21:22 that I've just learned in my short time,
21:23 you know, Pastor Ronnie pastoring,
21:24 you know, for about almost 10 years now.
21:27 But here's the thing,
21:29 people are hurting in our pews.
21:33 I mean, they are hurting bad.
21:34 And they're waiting for the church
21:37 to come out and say,
21:38 "We've got the solution through Christ
21:41 on how to be able to deal with this."
21:43 They're waiting for the church to free them.
21:44 Yeah, it is. And we have to do that.
21:45 We have to be intentional, that's the thing.
21:47 I think we have to be intentional about that.
21:50 It's funny because I heard a statistic recently,
21:52 don't know how true it is or not,
21:54 but it's said that 95% of people struggle with lust,
21:58 and the other 5% are lying.
22:00 You know, so this is something
22:03 that everyone
22:04 whether your issue may not be pornography,
22:06 your issue may not be watching late night movies
22:09 or sexting or flirting or that type of thing,
22:11 but the world is bombarding us with just sexual propaganda,
22:15 bottom line.
22:17 And what we've done up at this point
22:18 is our response has been
22:19 well since the world is going to on extreme,
22:21 will go to the other extreme and just shut down
22:23 and not say anything about it, you know.
22:25 But we have to be more proactive than that.
22:26 And it's the trust factor, that's major there.
22:31 When we think about sexuality
22:33 that is the moment we are truly on display.
22:37 We talked to couple and you sorted all about
22:39 how the Bible is very accurate to say
22:42 and Adam knew his wife Eve.
22:45 There's a knowing
22:46 that takes place in our sexuality
22:48 that shows the world who we truly are.
22:51 So if that type of transparency is required for me
22:55 to just interact sexually,
22:57 then the same type of trust is needed for me
23:00 to talk about my sexual issues.
23:03 And because our church sadly is not a safe place
23:07 for hurting people,
23:08 they shy away from divulging
23:11 the most intimate part of themselves
23:14 and how they're struggling.
23:16 Well, let me just say this really quick that,
23:18 you know, but I know
23:20 that we're talking about Christianity,
23:22 that this is far as being unsafe.
23:23 But there is a move.
23:25 And I believe that, you know, even in this room...
23:26 We show. We show
23:28 Yeah, there's a move amongst Christianity
23:30 in general to create environment
23:34 where it is safe for people to share their struggles
23:37 because we know that,
23:38 you know, since thrives in secrecy.
23:41 And so, you know, yes, that has been the pattern,
23:43 that has been the history.
23:45 But I've seen and I think you often seen
23:47 as well even in our own context
23:49 where there is a move to create that...
23:52 That's my question,
23:53 what can the church do to create to do more?
23:56 What can the church do to create that safe place?
23:58 I think some of the very intentionally although,
24:00 you know, I've seen...
24:01 I mean, make sure you watch the video.
24:02 I mean, this is the part of it.
24:05 You know, I think one thing
24:06 I do every single year in my church
24:08 is we are going to have at least four,
24:12 whether it's prayer meetings,
24:14 whether it's sermons that I going to deal with sex.
24:17 And then out of that we're going to have
24:20 other groups where we can talk about.
24:21 And there's no question,
24:22 you know, at Rubidioux, for instance,
24:27 pastors are going to deal with it
24:28 because I've made a commitment,
24:31 I said there's no way
24:32 that I'm going to let this get on touch.
24:34 And I think that's a part of it.
24:36 And when you do it from up top,
24:38 it makes it easier
24:40 I think to have in many other places.
24:41 You give license. You absolutely do.
24:43 When you are free and you deal with it,
24:44 it almost gives people the permission.
24:46 You're giving the permission to talk about it.
24:49 So what you're saying is you address it
24:50 from the top down kind of like the pastor,
24:53 "I'm going to address this thing."
24:54 But what about individual
24:55 who is not the pastor but they're saying,
24:57 "Man, I know I've struggled with that.
24:58 I haven't have friends in the church
25:00 who struggle with it.
25:01 Our pastor might not be on board,
25:02 how can we work to try to create a safe place
25:04 within our church?"
25:05 Yeah, I think it's just the way you operate though
25:07 amongst other people.
25:08 I think when people can kind of get the sense
25:10 that you're real
25:11 not that you're glorifying your struggle,
25:13 not your glorifying your sin,
25:14 but that you're the type of person
25:16 is very in touch with
25:17 "I'm a sinner and I am in need of Christ,
25:19 and the grace of God is what it saved you."
25:20 When you kind of had that air about you people
25:23 will get the sense
25:25 that it's safe for them to come and approach you.
25:27 I have had situations where,
25:29 you know, just people will come and talk to me and they'll say,
25:31 "Man, you know, I kind of feel like
25:33 you are the type of person I can share this with."
25:35 And I think what that really ultimately
25:38 is it just really letting Christ
25:40 just really just shine
25:42 and just kind of give you that sense,
25:44 you know, this person is the safe person to talk to.
25:46 So even if it's not coming from the top,
25:47 you can start to be the change within your context
25:50 by just the way that you carry yourself.
25:52 We're saying that the church has to be a safe place.
25:55 And we're saying a few things that can take place
25:57 in order for the church to be safe place.
25:59 What do you think about the church becoming
26:00 a place of redemption
26:02 when it comes to sex and sexual sin?
26:03 What does that look like?
26:05 It looks like a hospital instead of a country club,
26:10 that's what it looks like.
26:11 And that is uncomfortable because naturally,
26:15 we are not prone to like to be around sick people.
26:19 And yet we see Christ, when the leper comes to Him,
26:23 you know, the Greek seems to give us this impression
26:26 that he's embracing the leper,
26:28 the kind of leprosy
26:29 that you're not supposed to touch,
26:31 that's supposed to stand off the road,
26:32 a matter of fact, if he's anywhere near people,
26:35 Christ is hugging this man.
26:37 It's tough being around sick people.
26:39 And it's even tougher to admit
26:41 that you're one of those sick people.
26:43 But, you know, I think the main thing
26:45 is Ministry of Healing,
26:46 page 143 just one of my favorite quotes
26:49 where Sister White says,
26:50 "Christ mingled with men as one who desires there good."
26:53 In the first part of that, there it says,
26:55 "Met their needs,"
26:56 and if you are in a community
26:58 and your place and you know that
26:59 there are some sexual issues
27:01 going on at the high school all that,
27:03 set up something in your church,
27:05 even if your church is just use,
27:06 make sure the people
27:08 who are coming in are understand
27:09 the same principles that you have.
27:11 And say, "Yeah, we got it,
27:12 people who are struggling with not just pornography
27:14 but sexual promiscuity,
27:16 you can come to our place in a support group
27:20 and we're going to give you help."
27:22 Have that right there at your church.
27:23 "When you come, you won't be judged,
27:25 you won't be looked that funny or different,
27:27 but listen, you're one of us, you're part of the family."
27:30 You know, the reality is we have to see ourselves
27:32 as Christ sees us and see each others as Christ.
27:36 And we are all...
27:37 point what my Bible tells me,
27:39 "Sinners, saved by the same grace of God."
27:40 You know.
27:42 And so that's good
27:43 so the church has to be a safe place,
27:44 the church has to be a place of redemption.
27:46 You know, my prayers at the churches
27:48 will become to this place more and more so.
27:50 We are getting closer. Yeah, we're out of time.
27:53 We're going to continue this next week
27:54 as we continue to discuss.
27:56 But we're just thankful for you tuning in,
27:58 we pray that you are edified and uplifted.
28:01 Follow us on Facebook, type in FacebookPureChoices,
28:05 talk with us, dialogue with us.
28:06 And we hope to see you next week.
28:07 Be blessed. Have a wonderful day.


Revised 2018-01-18