Participants: Mike Carducci (Host), Gene & Bernadette Nanton
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000031
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:42 Hi, I am Mike Carducci with Coming Out Ministries, 00:44 your host today on "Pure Choices." 00:46 I have with me some very good friends. 00:49 This is Gene and his wife Bernie Nanton. 00:52 Actually Bernadette, I guess I should be more formal. 00:54 But we're very informal 00:56 Bernie and Gene are friends of mine 00:57 from back home in Greeneville, Tennessee. 01:00 And I asked them to come today to help to explain 01:07 the beauty that God puts into His church 01:11 to help with the redemption process. 01:14 For me, I had, even as a young child, 01:17 I went to nine different elementary schools 01:18 before I graduated high school 01:21 and because of that, I didn't have any long-lasting 01:24 friendships with the boy, 01:26 so I didn't identify with my gender. 01:28 I had a broken gender identity which started with my father. 01:34 And from an early, early time, 01:36 I had never known what it was like 01:38 to have my own masculinity affirm. 01:40 So what I want to do today is I want to explore a little bit 01:43 about coming back into church culture, 01:46 the road that the Lord has led me to restore the manhood 01:50 that I had been in search with ever since 01:52 I would say even as a young boy. 01:55 And so, today I want to introduce Bernie and Gene again 01:59 and then to talk about our friendship 02:02 that has evolved together. 02:04 Okay. 02:05 So, thanks for coming, Gene 02:06 You're welcome. Thanks, Bernie. 02:08 You're welcome. 02:09 So, one of the first things that I want to talk about is, 02:12 when was the first time you met me? 02:15 Well, when we moved to Greeneville, Tennessee 02:17 which was not that long ago about three or four years ago 02:20 and we met you at a Bible study. 02:22 And you seem like a good Christian guy. 02:26 We did detect that there might have been 02:28 some gay tendency somewhere, 02:30 but it didn't bother us because... 02:32 You know, we call that residue, right? 02:33 Okay. Okay. 02:35 So we started our residue. Right, right. 02:37 But what we saw instead was the person 02:39 in love with the Lord. 02:40 And that just banished 02:43 any other feelings that we might have had 02:46 that would have been negative 02:47 towards gays given our background. 02:50 What I saw was just a very friendly guy loving 02:55 and for us just coming to Tennessee, 03:00 it was nice to see somebody 03:02 who was just openly nice to you. 03:06 All right so. 03:08 What I want to talk a little bit about is 03:10 what kind of history, 03:11 I know that you come from the Island of Antigua, 03:14 a byway of New York City 03:16 and then down to Greeneville, Tennessee. 03:17 So you've gone through culture shock 03:19 probably a couple of times. 03:20 True. Yes. 03:22 All right, so New York City is full of homosexuals 03:24 and full of every kind of vice that you can think and so... 03:29 If you would, just kind of give me a brief history 03:31 of what your exposure has been to homosexuality 03:35 starting with maybe Antigua 03:36 and then taking it to New York City 03:38 and then even bringing it down to here if you would. 03:40 Sure. 03:41 Well growing up in the islands, 03:43 there weren't a lot of homosexuality, 03:46 it was not rampant or widespread 03:48 like it is here in the United States 03:50 and it was not necessarily well accepted. 03:54 You know, we came from a more "macho culture" 03:58 and we really dist homosexuals. 04:02 So we weren't like friendly and open to them, 04:06 unless of course they had warm personalities 04:10 in which case if you did, but there were so few 04:12 that we really didn't have a lot of contact 04:16 with homosexuals 04:17 and the little contact that we did have, 04:19 we didn't really want to have too much to do with them. 04:23 So was homosexuality in Antigua, 04:24 was it a covert kind of thing, it was more or less hidden 04:29 or was it something that was, excuse me, more open. 04:34 Well, we're talking about when we were in Antigua 04:36 and that was a good 35 years ago. 04:39 And at that time it was more covert then overt. 04:44 Okay. 04:45 But there were always a few who were quite overt. 04:49 Like, like where I went to school, 04:51 there was one right across the street 04:52 and he was very flamboyant. 04:54 Was this a high school or grade school? 04:56 High school. Okay. 04:58 Very flamboyant, but very funny, 05:01 and so therefore you treated him 05:04 just like a funny guy, he was almost like comedian. 05:08 And so it wasn't for me there was no dissing. 05:12 It was just that guy who dresses up 05:15 and make fun and is funny. 05:18 So I didn't see it as anything but just that, a funny guy. 05:22 Okay. 05:23 You say dressing up, what do you mean by... 05:25 Dressing up in his sister's clothes 05:26 and sashaying around the place. 05:29 So he made us laugh, you know, 05:33 but he wasn't going after the guys at school 05:36 or anything like that. 05:37 So for us, for me it was funny. 05:44 Other than that I really to be honest, 05:46 I can't remember having any dealings even in New York 05:50 with anybody who is homosexual. 05:52 We've really didn't have much contact, 05:54 personal contact with homosexuals 05:56 until we came in contact with you 05:59 and you're no longer a homosexual, 06:01 so that doesn't even count. 06:02 That's right. 06:03 Well, one thing that I, 06:05 that we were talking earlier about, Gene, 06:06 is you had a certain confrontation if you would 06:09 when you were a young man in Antigua. 06:10 Yes. Would you mind explaining that? 06:12 I was in my teens and there was a priest, 06:15 I think he was either an Anglican or a Moravian 06:19 who was known to be homosexual 06:22 and more of a covert than an overtly. 06:24 You know sometimes people think that nobody else knows, 06:27 but everybody knows except the person 06:29 who thinks that nobody knows about him, 06:31 but I was approached by him one night. 06:34 He stopped his car next to me 06:36 as I was walking right into the movies 06:38 and basically propositioned me, he asked me 06:40 if I would go with him down to the beach, 06:42 I mean this was at night, 06:44 so you don't go to the beach at night 06:45 unless you had some ulterior motive. 06:48 But I was very off put by that. 06:52 Matter of fact, to be perfectly frank, 06:54 I was pretty upset and I was like, 06:56 how dare you even think that to me 06:58 and I was quite ready to threaten him 07:00 and he just drove off 07:02 but that was my really only contact 07:06 that I've ever had. 07:07 Okay, so did that contact 07:10 possibly influence you in any way 07:13 when you heard about homosexuality 07:15 or when you saw 07:17 say on television gay pride parades 07:18 or did a thought ever come into your mind 07:21 of a certain attitude 07:23 or a feeling that would come up? 07:26 Oh, yeah, a very negative feeling. 07:27 Okay, all right. 07:29 Oh, yeah, like just don't even come close to me. 07:32 Okay, all right. 07:33 So my next question then is, when you met me, 07:37 you told us what your initial impression was 07:39 and I believe that was Jesus Christ 07:40 what you saw because if you had seen me 07:44 before in that lifestyle I believe that, 07:47 that I would have been a totally different person 07:50 to you at that time. 07:51 So describe the circumstances of when I joined your church. 07:56 That was interesting. 07:59 You came to our church 08:01 and we accepted you with open arms. 08:05 Absolutely. 08:06 Actually I was very glad that you came to our church, 08:09 our church is a small church as you know. 08:11 How many members? 08:12 Well, at the time we probably had 12 members. 08:15 Wow. Maybe 14. 08:17 But you know since you came and since we came 08:20 and more people just started walking through the door, 08:23 and I believe in many ways, you were responsible for that. 08:26 Can I say Michael's like a magnet. 08:28 He is. 08:31 From the time you joined the church, 08:33 so many more people came to church. 08:36 I don't know if they're following you at first 08:38 or they were just liking our church. 08:40 But I found a lot of people came 08:43 either when you're speaking or maybe when you invited them. 08:48 But again coming back to that person 08:50 who is loving and always willing to talk to you 08:56 and give you a hug and ask you how you're doing 08:59 when most people don't even notice, 09:01 you notice everything. 09:02 You notice if your dress is not fitting right 09:04 or if you're looking sad or your hair don't look right. 09:08 It's a gift and a curse, right? 09:10 So because of that, you attracted more people, 09:15 more ladies 09:17 because they know that you will tell them, 09:19 hey, Bernie, let me fix your hair for you 09:20 or something or, you know, that sort of stuff. 09:23 So I think that there is that overly, 09:28 like I need a friend attitude that comes from you 09:32 and somebody might look at it negative, 09:34 but most people I think look at that positive 09:37 and so they become more into speaking with you 09:41 and getting to know you. 09:43 Well, let me add a little bit to this because it's not, 09:46 it's not all what, what you may perceive 09:48 because at the time that I came to your church, 09:51 I had belonged to another church 09:52 for about six years. 09:54 And in this church everyone again knew my history, 09:57 but what I really wasn't getting is, 09:58 I wasn't getting an affirmation from the men at my church. 10:01 So matter of fact, 10:03 I was the Sabbath school superintendent 10:06 and I was on the board and I'd ask the pastor 10:08 if we could have a men's ministry, 10:10 because I needed to know what that type of healing was, 10:13 you know, to be affirmed by men not in a sexual way, 10:16 but in an intimate way, you being included and being, 10:19 you know, part of the men. 10:20 And so he said, well, Mike, come to the meeting tonight 10:22 and pitch your idea and I had a speaker all lined up 10:25 and we were going to use this camp, 10:26 you don't have like a men's retreat. 10:28 So I brought my books, you know, 10:30 I made my pitch to the board and one of the good doctors 10:33 that were sitting on the board in front of the pastor 10:35 and the head elder looked me square in the eye and he said, 10:39 I don't want to be running around in the woods 10:40 like a bunch of gay men 10:42 and that was such an affront to me 10:44 but to tell you the truth, 10:46 I wish that was the only time that, that happen. 10:48 And through this six years, you know, 10:50 I would go back home and I would say, 10:52 God, you know, I hate this church, 10:53 I hate these people here whatever and God said, "Well, 10:56 are you serving me or you gonna serve them." 10:59 And it was a constant, you know, humbling myself again 11:02 and just saying, well, I'll stay 11:04 because that's where you're sending me and I got, 11:07 I guess it as much as you would, 11:08 I got very comfortable with that. 11:10 So when I had a Bible study 11:12 that they wanted to try your church 11:14 and you remember I brought them to lunch 11:16 and because of you, they said, Mike, you know, 11:19 we're really not comfortable in that other church, 11:21 we would like to try this little church. 11:22 And I prayed and I said, well, God what I might gonna to do, 11:24 you know, take my friends to this little church 11:27 and drop them off and go back to church in. 11:28 And I basically got the release from God saying, No, Mike, 11:32 go with them, stay with them and so that was my release 11:35 and when I, when I came into your church, you know, 11:38 I looked at the head elder and I said, hi, you know, 11:40 I come from homosexuality and sexual addiction 11:43 and do you have any room in your church, and he said, 11:45 sure, have a seat with all the other sinners 11:47 and can you preach every now and then 11:48 because we don't have a regular preacher. 11:50 So, I mean the reception that I got at your church, 11:54 it was almost like it was 11:55 something that hadn't been discovered yet. 11:58 And so all I did was turn people on to it 12:01 that I felt would appreciate the openness, 12:04 the loving reception that I got from your church, 12:07 so it wasn't what they saw in me, 12:09 I believe that's what they saw in the church 12:11 and watch that Holy Spirit was leading them to. 12:15 But anyway, something's really majorly change for me, 12:18 Gene, and they basically came from you. 12:20 And I believe that God was using you 12:22 as God with skin on because there was... 12:26 There was one time, it was actually 12:27 the first foot washing service that we had 12:30 and it's such a small church, 12:32 there are two little rooms behind the pulpit. 12:35 And anyway, the men were in one room 12:37 and the women were in the other and it was very tight quarters. 12:40 And so in these tiny little rooms, 12:41 you know, the water is being passed around in the pans 12:44 and there was a guy with one foot 12:45 and I washed his one foot and I thought I got off easy, 12:47 so I turn around as I'm getting ready to leave 12:50 and you approached me and you said. 12:52 Mike, has somebody served you. 12:53 And I said, "Yeah, I served you know, one legged Willie, 12:56 so you looked at me and you said, no, Mike, 12:58 I want to serve you. 13:00 Now I might know a little bit more than the situation now, 13:02 but to me at that time, I really saw it as unnecessary. 13:06 I certainly saw it as you wanted to reach out to me 13:11 which I wasn't used to and because I was so used 13:13 to the rejection of men, you know, 13:15 in church culture that I really thought 13:17 it was even unnecessary and kind of like, 13:20 I don't know why you would bother, right. 13:22 But you push the issue and you insisted 13:24 and so I thought, all right, I sat down as I, 13:27 as you started to serve me, Gene, 13:29 you started to pour over me the love of Jesus 13:32 just in a personal way, you, you started telling me 13:35 what a joy it was to have me there, you know, 13:38 the good things that you'd observed in 13:40 and just affirmations. 13:42 You weren't trying to puff me up 13:43 but you were affirming to me 13:45 that I belong there which was something 13:47 that I wasn't getting from church culture. 13:49 And so as you were bathing me in that, 13:52 I'm looking and I'm just in awe 13:53 that somebody would bother to extend themselves to me. 13:57 And then when you started to pray for me, 13:59 all the men in that room came up 14:01 and they put their hands on me and that was so incredible, 14:04 because I don't even think that you know 14:06 what you were doing, but by acknowledging me 14:09 and including me in the men, 14:10 just doing whatever the Holy Spirit was saying 14:12 include the new guy, he might be a little strange 14:15 but you know include him, right. 14:17 But by doing that, what you were doing, you was, 14:19 you were affirming to me and the healing 14:21 that I experienced from that has actually elevated me 14:25 to recognize that, that God did make the male 14:28 and female and that he made me male purposefully. 14:31 And as I started to get that affirmation 14:33 that in itself is healing. 14:35 So, you may not have recognized that 14:37 but that I think began our friendship. 14:40 The Lord does work in mysterious ways. 14:42 Yes, yes, incredible. 14:43 Because I wasn't out to affirm your masculinity 14:46 'cause in my eyes I never questioned it. 14:49 I wanted to wash your feet 14:51 and I specifically wanted to wash your feet 14:54 because even though you don't recall it 14:56 at this time, we did have a conflict, 14:58 but you didn't even see it is a conflict, 15:00 but I saw it as a conflict. 15:02 I knew that you were going to become a leader in our church, 15:05 simply because of your forthrightness, 15:07 your love for the Lord 15:09 and the way that you're not afraid to stand up 15:11 and to speak and to speak truly. 15:13 And we had a little discussion because we had prayer meeting 15:19 and because our pastor only comes, 15:22 he handles three churches as you know, 15:24 so he only comes to prayer meeting 15:25 every other week. 15:27 So one week, I would take it and the other week he would. 15:29 But the week when I took it, we did Bible study 15:32 and the week when he took it, we did prayer meeting. 15:35 And you had said to me, 15:36 if it's gonna be prayer meeting, 15:38 it should be prayer meeting and not Bible study. 15:40 Have mercy. And needless to say, I was no. 15:42 We need Bible study too. 15:44 So I felt that we had a conflict. 15:46 But I recognized also and this time 15:49 neither of us were officers in the church, 15:51 but I recognized that it doesn't make any sense to us 15:54 to have a conflict. 15:55 And the foot washing is an opportunity 15:58 to address a conflict. 16:00 So whereas I was addressing a conflict between us 16:03 because I know we must be on one accord. 16:05 You were actually receiving it 16:07 as an affirmation of your masculinity 16:09 when I never even questioned it. 16:11 If you're so used to rejection, then the fact 16:14 that you saw me as valuable enough 16:16 and that you saw our relationship 16:17 is valuable enough to address it and confront it. 16:20 To me for the first time, 16:22 it was actually somebody reaching out, 16:23 even though you were looking for reconciliation 16:25 which was the furthest thing from my mind, 16:27 what it did and I believe the Holy Spirit 16:29 had intended to do was again to affirm 16:32 that you saw value in me. 16:34 And I think that, that's what a lot of homosexuals 16:36 really struggle with is that, you know, 16:38 if you've been rejected for so many years 16:40 and some of us in my ministry had been rejected 16:43 since before they were born. 16:44 And so, if you've experienced that kind of rejection 16:47 over and over again, then I think that it has merit 16:50 to tell the body of Christ that if you want to minister 16:53 to not just homosexuals, but anyone 16:55 who may be outside your understanding 16:58 or what you think your reach is or scope, 17:01 that just by making them a value, 17:04 holding them as a value that they're worthwhile 17:07 or that they're worth something, 17:08 right then you start to create this atmosphere 17:11 that I think not only will help to heal, 17:13 but also to help Christians to grow. 17:16 Go ahead. 17:17 You know, what I... 17:19 As I'm listening to you and thinking about you 17:21 at church and stuff. 17:22 What you being at our church has done for me 17:27 is to make me question myself, how does, 17:30 how does the Lord see me? 17:33 How does somebody else see me? 17:35 Whereas you're looking for save value, 17:37 my worth, what am I worth? 17:39 Does anybody see me as worthy of anything? 17:43 Whereas when I think of about you 17:45 and what you're going through and what you are saying, 17:48 it makes me begin to look at myself and say Bernie 17:51 in the sight of Michael or anybody who are you? 17:56 Are you a Christian? 17:58 Are you trying to be a Christian, 18:01 like what are you doing? 18:02 So instead of just seen as say homosexuality, 18:06 I'm seeing it the whole picture. 18:08 Each one of us have sinned 18:09 and come short of the glory of God. 18:12 And until we start looking at our self in heaven's eyes, 18:16 just trying to imagine when Jesus look at me, 18:20 I wonder what He sees. 18:22 Then I stop seeing you as a homosexual 18:25 and I just see you as a child of God. 18:27 You know, Michael, to pick up on what Bernie just said. 18:31 You coming to our church, my attitude before 18:36 to homosexuals was one of disdain. 18:39 We would even call them derogatory names. 18:42 But what you did for me was to make me see myself 18:48 because we have all sinned as Bernie said 18:50 and fall short of the glory of God. 18:53 If God could save you and bring you back 18:56 into the church despite all the things 18:58 that you encountered in the church, 19:00 it made me questioned my own Christianity. 19:03 Am I a Christian to have such an attitude 19:06 towards people regardless 19:09 whether they have same-sex attraction or not 19:12 because God sees us all as sinners to be saved. 19:17 And we need to emulate Jesus as our role model 19:21 and that's what you did for me. 19:23 You strengthened my Christianity. 19:26 You allowed me to get rid of the biases 19:28 and the prejudices that I had and just take people 19:33 and love people for what they are, 19:35 so that we can bring them to Christ. 19:38 You know, it's awesome to sit in this chair 19:40 and to hear those things because again, 19:43 it's just, it's like the Lord just keeps giving 19:45 as we are having this discussion. 19:47 Again, I just see the goodness of God to, you know, 19:50 to move me into certain paths to, to create friendships, 19:53 I thought that our friendship was just for me. 19:55 And so then when you start to see 19:57 that it has a benefit to everybody, 19:59 God doesn't leave anybody out, right. 20:01 So another question that I have is. 20:04 How has your relationship 20:05 changed your understanding of Jesus 20:07 and His ability to change lives? 20:10 How that relates to me? 20:12 Well, how that relates to me is like that day 20:15 when we had Mother's Day, right. 20:16 And we had all the roses sitting up there 20:18 and the idea was the men were gonna serve the women. 20:21 You know, the men had the meal, the men did the sermon, 20:23 the men did the Sabbath School, the men did, you know, 20:26 everything, the ladies didn't have to do anything. 20:27 We even cooked. 20:29 That's right and we even played the piano. 20:30 Yes. That's right. Right, okay. 20:32 So as we're standing there, you know, Gene starts 20:34 and he takes out a rose and he honors his wife, right. 20:37 And then he invites anybody else 20:38 and a little kid came up an honored 20:40 his mother and there it began. 20:41 So as we started to honor the women in our church, 20:44 all of sudden what I realized was 20:47 God was affirming me again that I was in the boys club 20:49 because I wasn't out there in the audience, 20:53 I was up there with the men and even thought, 20:55 you know, my role was minimal as far as just holding a rose 20:58 and to honor somebody, 21:00 the fact that I was included as a guy with the guys, 21:04 that in itself was just basically 21:06 an affirmation to me again. 21:08 Another situation is Brother Bill, 21:10 you know, it was one day after, again, you know, 21:13 I have the opportunity now to give sermon occasionally. 21:16 Brother Bill is our head elder at the time. 21:18 Yes, yes. 21:19 And so he does, he's great. 21:21 What do you call at the end of the sermon? 21:22 The benediction. 21:23 Yes, he does a great benediction, so I was done. 21:25 He comes up and Brother Bill puts his arm around my waist. 21:29 And normally what I found that I do with men is 21:32 if I give them a hug, it's like hug release 21:34 because I really don't want them to think 21:36 that I'm copping a feel or that, 21:37 you know, it's going further than that. 21:39 And so for the first time in ten years to have someone 21:42 holding me around my waist, I could feel his words coming 21:46 through his chest into mine and it was the first time 21:49 that I've been held like that and he wasn't letting go. 21:51 And here I am standing in front of the whole congregation 21:54 and being affirmed by Brother Bill as, 21:56 you know, as he's given this beautiful benediction. 21:58 And just then I realized that it wasn't a turn on 22:03 and that God was speaking in my ear 22:05 and He says this is what it's like Mike 22:07 to be a man and to be affirmed by men. 22:10 And so he was using this opportunity 22:12 that wasn't designed to stimulate me, 22:14 what it was as it was designed to affirm me. 22:17 And again that's the, that's the situation 22:20 that I keep getting in church now that I've come there 22:22 so the blessing has been just as much mine as 22:26 anybody else's so. 22:27 You know, I can tell you something else about that too. 22:29 And not about Brother Bill holding you, 22:31 because Brother Bill is just like that. 22:33 He is a lovable, friendly guy. 22:35 He has seen what you have done. 22:37 But going back to the Mother's Day issue, 22:40 maybe you don't realize it but you led out, 22:43 you led the man out in that whole Mother's Day 22:48 thing that we did, that tribute. 22:50 You were the one who initiated the idea 22:53 and we embraced the idea, 22:56 but you were the one who led out in it 22:58 and we were so grateful to you because, you know. 23:01 you are a man of ideas 23:03 and the church just followed your lead, 23:05 so you might not have thought that you were affirm, 23:09 but the fact that all the men 23:11 turned to you for leadership at that time. 23:15 Can you ask for more affirmation than that, 23:17 you demand. 23:18 Wow. Well... 23:20 You know coming, coming out and allowing everyone to see 23:25 you wear your sorrows and your heartache 23:28 on your sleeves has allow us into church to love you 23:33 as a person and bring you into the family with us. 23:37 And that's why Brother Bill can hug you 23:39 and Gene can wash your feet, you're part of the family. 23:42 And it just reminds me, what it's as gonna feel like 23:45 when we get to heaven, we are part of the family. 23:49 Doesn't matter who we were, where we came from, 23:52 God loves us anyhow. 23:54 Thank you for that thought 23:56 because now I see also the benefit of the unit, 24:01 of the church family because the example 24:03 that I'm receiving now is the safe environment. 24:06 You know what? I'm not perfect and-- 24:08 You know, you see the good, the bad and the ugly 24:10 and you know you've seen it. 24:12 And so in spite of that you still, you know, 24:15 include me, you still accept me who I'm. 24:18 And that in itself is not only healing 24:20 but it's an example of what every church can do to not just 24:25 receive homosexuals which I think is definitely 24:27 a need that we have in our denomination, 24:30 but also in receiving anyone that has fallen, 24:33 anyone that has experienced rejection 24:35 from the outside world and even other churches, 24:37 they should be able to come into our church 24:39 and receive that, that safety 24:41 and that confirmation that no matter what you are, 24:44 no matter what you do that you will be loved here 24:46 and that you'll be affirmed here 24:48 and you're accepted here and welcome. 24:50 Absolutely. 24:51 I mean what is the purpose of our church? 24:53 Is not Jesus soon to come? 24:55 Are we not to prepare a people for the coming of the Lord 24:58 to make ourselves fit for heaven? 25:00 If we have a biases and prejudices, 25:03 we're not fit for His coming. 25:05 And we don't want that to tarry any longer. 25:08 So, you know, thank you, Michael, 25:10 because you have helped us on that road towards 25:13 been able to love one another regardless 25:16 because we want Jesus to come. 25:18 You guys are so cool. 25:19 You don't know how awesome this is to experience 25:22 this dialog back and forth. 25:25 Just even in the general things, 25:27 I remember one time, Gene, 25:28 you know, I was doing a health fair 25:30 and it was in Knoxville, 25:32 it was like an hour and a half away 25:33 and I left all my stuff in my garage 25:36 and you left your house which was way, 25:38 you went an hour from me 25:39 and you went an hour to my house 25:41 and then another hour out to meet me halfway 25:43 in the highway to give me those thing so. 25:46 Again your friendship and just in the general 25:49 casual things as well as in the big things, 25:52 you know, those little everyday occurrences like the day 25:55 that we helped move somebody in the mud 25:57 and we shared a sandwich at Subway 25:58 and we were just goofing off and that kind of stuff. 26:01 All of those little things are actual affirmations 26:04 that I think helped to restore lost masculinity. 26:07 The reason that I rejected my father at a young age 26:10 is because his masculinity was scary to me. 26:14 And I can actually look back and it wasn't so much 26:16 that I rejected my dad, I rejected masculinity. 26:19 So my friendship with you and my relationship with you, 26:22 you've made it very easy, I come to you, 26:24 you don't judge me. 26:25 And if I do something bad or wrong or whatever, 26:29 you don't chastise me, you accept me back in, 26:31 you confront me with it. 26:33 And you know what? 26:34 You're showing me what that's like to be real, 26:37 to be authentic and to also know 26:39 that no matter what happens, 26:41 I'm still a member, I'm still a friend 26:43 and that investment in me 26:45 has been incredibly healing for me. 26:47 It's been healing for us too. 26:49 It's been strengthening for us 26:51 and it has allowed us to grow as Christians. 26:53 And I truly believe that's what our church needs. 26:56 You know, we have hid this issue 26:57 under the carpet for so long, that we really need to come out 27:02 to recognize just as Jesus did. 27:04 He loves sinners, it's sin that He hates, 27:07 but we need to emulate Him 27:09 and make Him our role models at all times. 27:11 Wow. 27:13 You know, Gene, thank you so much 27:14 for your example and, Bernie, 27:17 thank you also for including me into your family as well. 27:21 As matter of fact when your, when your kids are in town, 27:22 you always drag them to my house 27:24 and we have popcorn or something. 27:25 They love to come. Yeah, yeah we have... 27:26 Especially since you've fixed the hair. 27:28 Yeah, okay, all right. 27:30 So I want to close with Proverbs 27:7 it says, 27:33 "Iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens 27:36 the countenance of his friend." 27:38 It's truly is an example of God's restoration power 27:42 within the church. 27:43 And I want to thank you for taking the time 27:46 to watch our episode today. 27:47 Thank you, Bernie and Gene, for coming all this way... 27:49 You're welcome. 27:50 You know out of your own time and I appreciate your time. 27:53 Thank you for viewing Pure Choices today. |
Revised 2016-02-18