Participants: Ron Woolsey (Host), Mike Carducci, Wayne Blakely
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000040
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:41 Welcome to Pure Choices.
00:43 I'm Ron Woolsey with Coming Out Ministries
00:46 and with me today
00:47 are my colleagues from Coming Out Ministries,
00:50 Mike Carducci and Wayne Blakely.
00:53 We're going to talk about a subject
00:55 that has a catchy title I believe,
00:58 "Can Born a Gay be Born Again?"
01:03 The debate continues on this subject
01:05 as to whether one can be born gay
01:08 but-- well let's just talk about that for a second
01:11 because there are so many different
01:14 differences of opinion on this issue
01:17 and we'll talk about this and then we'll talk about
01:19 later on whether it really matters or not.
01:22 Mike, what are your thoughts on that
01:24 or what have you heard about this?
01:27 Wow, deep question.
01:28 So for me early on, I thought I was born gay.
01:32 From my earliest recollection
01:34 even at six-years-old before I was sexualized,
01:37 I knew that I was different than the other boys.
01:38 I knew that, that something had happen
01:41 and so as I grew up the world was screaming that
01:44 I was born gay and I just readily accepted it
01:47 because I wasn't hearing anyone else say otherwise.
01:50 So I believe that I was born gay.
01:53 I also now after I came out of the gay lifestyle
01:56 as I began the journey with Jesus Christ,
01:58 He showed me also through the word
02:00 that sin was generational.
02:02 And so if homosexuality is an abomination
02:05 and it's a sin, adultery,
02:07 then I had to, I had to recognize it
02:09 that also came from, from generations before me.
02:12 You know, there's sexual sin on both sides
02:14 of my parents' families for generations.
02:17 I had a great grandmother
02:19 that was a prostitute during the depression
02:21 and so that helped me to recognize that
02:24 sin was not only generational
02:26 and so I believe that,
02:28 that there was an aspect that I was born gay.
02:30 And so, that helped me in that quest
02:33 to find out why this happened?
02:35 How this was created or allowed to happen in me
02:39 because from my earliest recollection,
02:41 I loved God, I loved Jesus.
02:43 I wanted to make Him happy.
02:44 I wanted to make Him proud of who I was,
02:46 but I couldn't fight this onslaught of emotion
02:49 and unmet needs of my masculinity.
02:52 And so yeah, Ron, I believe that you can be born gay.
02:55 From your earliest memories, you believe you were born gay.
02:59 And I know throughout my childhood and teenage years
03:03 and well, for many, many years I felt that I was born gay.
03:08 Because the reason I felt that way was
03:10 because I couldn't explain it.
03:12 I didn't know why I had the feelings
03:15 and the confusion and the emotions that I had.
03:18 And so I just eventually just accepted,
03:21 maybe I was just born this way, I was born different.
03:24 So, Wayne, how do you see this question?
03:29 Is it true that some people are born gay
03:31 while other people are born straight?
03:34 Well, you know, I see gay as a pretty definitive word
03:38 and so, you know, when you first hear that
03:41 as a Christian or someone who is,
03:44 you know, not in agreement with homosexual behavior
03:48 like, no, no, that can't happen,
03:50 that can't be, you know.
03:51 And so, but let's go back what is gay?
03:53 We don't find it in the Word of God,
03:55 right, the gay, the word term gay is not there.
03:57 And so what actually is gay?
04:00 You know, it is having same-sex attraction.
04:03 So I'd go back again to my prenatal influence
04:08 and that my natural mother was adamant
04:11 that she was not having a boy.
04:13 She was definitely gonna have a girl
04:15 and if she did have a boy, she was gonna reject that boy.
04:18 And so my prenatal influence and my postnatal conditioning
04:23 pretty well says that I was born into an environment
04:27 that what I was going to respond to
04:30 was going to be the conditioning
04:33 of being drawn to the masculine figure
04:36 rather than the feminine figure.
04:38 And if we look at Satan's plan versus God's plan
04:43 and God's allowing
04:44 the stain of sin to be on all of us.
04:47 Yeah, you bet I think you can be born gay.
04:49 And the question I have in response is
04:52 so what, you know?
04:53 So if I can be born gay, so what?
04:56 We will cover that question a little bit later.
04:58 Oh, yeah. all right.
05:00 Because that is a very good question.
05:01 But I want to just build on this one a little bit more
05:05 because as you felt that you were born gay,
05:08 they were prenatal influences,
05:10 so that sounds environmental, right?
05:13 Doesn't it sound like
05:15 that maybe you were being conditioned
05:19 by environment, by circumstances,
05:21 by the feelings and thoughts and emotions
05:24 and words of your mother
05:25 because I know in third, the third trimester pregnancy
05:29 I have, I have heard that that the babies,
05:35 they respond to that communication,
05:37 they respond to the, to soothing music
05:41 and a loving warm environment
05:42 and parents talking to their children.
05:45 I've seen these beautiful pictures
05:47 of daddies talking to baby through mommy's tummy
05:51 and so that when baby is born, baby already recognizes.
05:55 And actually they have shown
05:56 that when the daddy speaks to a baby after it's born,
05:59 they have shown and seen recognition
06:02 that baby recognizes daddy's voice
06:05 as well as mommy's voice.
06:06 So is this what I'm hearing
06:08 that conditioning was taking place?
06:10 Well, trauma can even influence a baby in a third trimester.
06:14 Ministry of Healing supports that
06:16 in the chapter on mothers.
06:20 And so in your case, Wayne, you were being conditioned.
06:24 Yeah, I believe they're strongly conditioned.
06:27 I think we have that to look at
06:28 and I think that we can also look in biblically
06:32 verses that will tell us that
06:33 and we have the sins
06:35 of our ancestors upon us as well.
06:39 So that can be a condition in as well.
06:42 I've heard some research in this area
06:46 about that third trimester.
06:47 I've only just play on this just a little bit more here.
06:50 It has to do with rejection and this is your story,
06:54 that, that babies can be born with the sense of rejection
06:58 because of the mother may be feeling rejected
07:02 or feeling fat and ugly while she is pregnant
07:04 or being put down by her husband
07:07 or being in depression, all kinds of factors
07:10 that babies can actually be born
07:11 with the sense of rejection
07:13 and can struggle with that
07:15 through many years of their lives
07:17 until they come to terms with that.
07:19 And some of these babies grow into children
07:22 that are seeking acceptance in many different ways.
07:25 So children with the same sense of rejection
07:28 can go in any number of ways seeking that acceptance.
07:33 And some go to the homosexual side,
07:36 some go to promiscuity, heterosexual,
07:40 then there's drugs, alcohol, all kinds of things.
07:44 So that, that third trimester especially is very important
07:49 and that conditioning does happen.
07:51 Now there's another statement that I've heard out there
07:56 which to me sounds like a myth but correct me if I'm wrong.
08:01 I'm hosting the program,
08:02 but that doesn't mean I have all the answers,
08:04 that's why I'm asking the questions.
08:06 If you get the questions wrong, answer wrong,
08:08 then I'll correct you.
08:10 No, I'm just kidding.
08:11 But, you know, once gay always gay,
08:13 have you ever heard that, Mike?
08:15 Yes, absolutely.
08:16 Once gay always gay.
08:18 You know, it sounds to me
08:19 like some other myths in doctrine
08:21 like once saved always saved
08:24 and in that-- for example in that belief,
08:29 it to me eliminates the power of choice,
08:33 "if once saved always saved"
08:35 then you lose your power of choice
08:37 when you're converted.
08:38 So do you lose your power of choice if you're gay?
08:43 Once gay always gay,
08:44 Mike, what do you think about that?
08:46 Ron, that's such a heavy for me because if that was true,
08:51 when I was converted and following Jesus,
08:53 I didn't want to be straight.
08:55 I wasn't even interested.
08:56 I was desperately looking to affirm the identity
08:59 that it cultivated
09:01 and then I felt that I was born into.
09:03 You know, the flesh wants to stay that way.
09:05 And so as I was looking for ways
09:07 to keep my boyfriend and to keep my identity,
09:10 what was amazing is that
09:12 I realized that God was calling it an abomination
09:16 and because I was finally experiencing His love for me,
09:20 then I got angry with God
09:21 and I shook my little fist at Him and said,
09:23 "How dare You say that I'm an abomination
09:26 if you made me gay."
09:27 Because I had bought into that, that lie that,
09:29 that I was born gay or maybe not lie
09:32 but to think that Jesus was impotent,
09:34 that He couldn't help me out of that.
09:36 So how dare a God create someone gay
09:39 and then turn around and call them an abomination.
09:41 And so that was when I started realizing that
09:44 if He called it an abomination
09:46 and if I couldn't get out of it,
09:48 then He wasn't a Savior at all,
09:49 and if it's either a Savior for everyone
09:52 or is a Savior for no one.
09:53 And I was at the bridge
09:55 of actually letting go of my salvation
09:57 or even my pursuit of God,
09:59 because that was so offensive to me
10:01 that after all the rejection
10:03 that I've gotten from men in my whole life
10:05 that now my Savior was saying that I was rejected
10:07 if He made me that way.
10:09 But God was so good
10:10 because He began to bathe over me
10:13 understanding that this may have been
10:16 what sin had caused in my life,
10:18 but it wasn't gonna leave me there
10:20 and that was powerful.
10:22 Well, you know this dilemma
10:23 that is created by that thinking
10:25 is one thing that left me
10:27 so bitter and angry against God.
10:29 Were you ever bitter and angry against God?
10:31 Oh, yeah.
10:33 Just a little. Not you, Wayne.
10:35 You know, when I was in the world,
10:36 I went into the world bitter and angry against God
10:39 for these reasons we're talking about here
10:41 because I had no answers.
10:42 Then I new I had a degree in theology
10:45 before I went into the gay world.
10:47 Shame on me, right.
10:49 You think I had all the answers.
10:50 No, I had a lot of Bible knowledge,
10:53 but I didn't have my answers.
10:55 And so to read, to have all this knowledge
11:00 about how God feels about homosexual behavior,
11:05 the condemnation for that behavior,
11:07 the destruction of the wicked
11:10 and then be trapped in this body,
11:12 in this mindset that, that's who I was.
11:17 I had that same dilemma, if God made me this way,
11:20 if I was born this way and there are no answers,
11:23 then it's God's fault.
11:25 That's right.
11:26 And if it's God's fault, shame on Him.
11:27 Can you see how Satan uses that
11:31 to turn victims into enemies of God.
11:35 And is there not a lot of hatred against God
11:38 within the gay community?
11:39 I think it's reasonable.
11:41 It's only fair.
11:42 If you, if you've been fed the lie and learn the lie,
11:46 you know, it makes sense then I believe that
11:47 even God recognizes
11:49 that, that some of that is reasonable.
11:51 He says "Come and let us reason together."
11:53 So when I started getting real with God
11:56 and I started getting angry, I believe God was saying,
11:59 "Yes, Mike, let some of that out
12:00 because as you open up and start being real with Me,
12:03 then I can start being real with you
12:05 and to show you that that isn't who I am.
12:08 You know, isn't it wonderful
12:09 that God's shoulders are so big?
12:11 He can take our anger. Yes.
12:13 Understanding that we don't understand.
12:18 It's almost like
12:19 "Go ahead and lash out at Me, just talk to Me."
12:22 If you need to vent, vent to Me.
12:24 If you feel angry and bitter against Me,
12:26 let it out and get it out of your system
12:29 and then I will, then I'll get your attention
12:32 and I'll show you
12:33 that you don't need to be that way anymore.
12:36 And we can resolve this anger issue
12:38 that is going on here.
12:40 Well, even if a little child says they hate their parent,
12:42 it doesn't cause a parent not to love the child anymore.
12:45 They know that they're responding to,
12:47 you know, feelings or whatever.
12:49 And they know that this is a temporary thing,
12:50 but at least the child is being real.
12:53 Now here's another term that I've heard so much.
12:57 In fact, I used it.
12:58 These terms that I've heard so much about,
13:01 guess where I heard them?
13:04 From myself.
13:06 All those years in the world, I was saying these things,
13:09 homosexuality isn't acceptable, alternative lifestyle.
13:13 Wayne, did you ever say that?
13:15 Did you ever think that or you ever heard that?
13:19 Yes, and I came to a point I was--
13:22 when I began to get settled in my gay identity
13:27 that I found that, that this was what was natural to me
13:31 and when I went
13:32 and lived in Key West, Florida for two years
13:35 and I came back, my nephews began to say to me,
13:40 "Wow, we have never heard you be so adamant
13:44 and so blatant about your identity
13:46 as you are today."
13:48 And I had gone and immersed myself
13:50 in a gay culture where I just lived and breathe
13:54 men day in and day out
13:56 and in an intemperate life, obviously you can tell,
14:01 you know, who was controlling that.
14:03 Isn't it kind of like drinking the Kool-Aid
14:05 or drinking the alcohol?
14:08 It's numbing the conscience and numbing the argument
14:12 and drowning oneself or covering oneself.
14:16 It's self justification. Right.
14:18 You know, the beauty, the beauty that I see in this
14:20 as we talk about this is that, you know,
14:23 we went in so many different directions
14:26 that were not directions that God intended us to go
14:29 but praise God, He knows the beginning from the end.
14:33 And so He saw the whole story.
14:35 He knew that we in our individual lives
14:40 would need to experience certain things,
14:42 He would need to allow us to go down certain roads
14:46 in order for us to totally get it.
14:49 And when we got it, we would come back
14:51 and we would be strong and powerful in Jesus Christ
14:54 because now we know,
14:56 we know the difference between darkness and light
14:59 and we know that Jesus remains the same
15:01 because He's the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
15:04 Amen. Amen.
15:06 Okay, Mike, I have this question for you.
15:09 If-- If homosexuality is an acceptable--
15:14 Well, I should say is based upon our discussion
15:18 and our study and our experience,
15:19 is homosexuality really
15:21 an acceptable alternative lifestyle
15:25 or is it a sin issue?
15:27 If it's an acceptable lifestyle choice
15:31 then it makes Jesus Christ impotent.
15:33 And that was the bottom-line for me.
15:35 Because if Jesus called it an abomination
15:38 and He couldn't reach it or restore it,
15:41 then that makes Him impotent.
15:42 And so whether we're in church culture
15:44 or secular society,
15:46 if we accept that to be a truth,
15:48 then Jesus Christ was no Savior,
15:50 He was nothing more than just a mortal man.
15:53 So if this is a sin issue, is that what you're saying?
15:55 Yes, absolutely.
15:56 If it is a sin issue, then is there a remedy?
15:58 Absolutely, yes.
16:01 You know, while we were yet sinners,
16:02 Christ died for us.
16:04 Right there let us know that,
16:05 you know, even before we were able to accept the gift
16:09 or even willing to accept the gift,
16:11 it was already provided.
16:12 The plan of salvation was put into place
16:15 even before we were born,
16:17 before the earth was formed, He knew us
16:19 and He knew the struggle that I was gonna have.
16:21 You know, I was so angry at Him as I started coming back
16:24 I said, you know, "Why Lord,
16:25 out of all the things in this world
16:27 that You would give me homosexuality
16:29 or allow this thing to come to me?"
16:31 And I was angry there for a long time
16:33 that I had to learn how to surrender my flesh,
16:35 not just every day, but each and every minute.
16:38 And then I started to recognize the beauty of God's grace
16:41 because I started to learn that I didn't have the luxury
16:45 of just surrendering myself over it at one time
16:48 during the day that I had to learn
16:50 the quality of breathing Jesus like air
16:53 and surrendering every five minutes.
16:54 And now I see the beauty that I've learned that
16:57 I have to hang on to Jesus Christ constantly.
17:01 I had to learn that, that thing in the Bible that says,
17:04 "Pray without ceasing."
17:06 Could it be and this is just coming to me
17:08 as we're talking and I'm listening to you here.
17:11 Could it be that God allowed us to go this route
17:16 because He knew what we could become?
17:19 In other words in Jeremiah we read,
17:21 "Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you."
17:25 That's an intimacy.
17:26 And I have often thought,
17:27 you know, I could have been a miscarriage.
17:29 God knew what I would become.
17:32 He knew how degraded I would be that I would go into the world
17:35 with a degree in theology
17:37 and bring such terrible reproach against His name.
17:40 Why did He allow me to even be born?
17:43 I could have been a miscarriage,
17:44 I could have been an abortion, but He said "I knew you."
17:48 What, I guess He knew what we could become
17:52 if we went through-- In other words,
17:54 it seems to me, this is something
17:56 that He allowed to flop down on our plate
17:59 because He knew that we could overcome
18:03 and what we could do with that challenge
18:06 and how it could be a blessing to others later.
18:09 You know, well, I have to believe that
18:11 that we were chosen
18:12 and I have said on the phone to Mike
18:15 before more than once,
18:18 "How many people do you know in our denomination,
18:22 our individual denomination
18:25 that are standing up with this message?"
18:28 This message that hasn't been talked about redemption
18:31 from homosexuality for 150 years of our--
18:33 in our denomination.
18:35 And Mike's like, "I don't know any one."
18:38 And I said, couldn't just that tell you
18:41 what Jesus Christ has seen in us
18:43 that He knew that He would have a voice through us
18:46 that we are chosen,
18:48 that He has put a special blessing on us
18:51 to be able to go forth and share
18:54 what the transformation is,
18:56 what is possible through Jesus Christ
18:58 because He knew
18:59 that through what we were allowed to go through
19:01 that we would come through the end
19:03 and that we would believe in Him
19:04 and that we would trust in Him
19:06 and we would not--
19:07 we don't flinch in the side of society today.
19:10 We fear not because God is with us.
19:13 You know, Jesus is the one that's on trial here, not us
19:17 because Jesus is the one that the whole world,
19:20 the whole universe is looking at
19:21 to see if He is just
19:23 and if He is the Savior that He says He is.
19:25 And so He wants to reproduce in His people,
19:28 His same character
19:30 and what testifies more of God's goodness
19:33 than to be able to take three loser people
19:36 who were absolutely trapped in homosexuality
19:39 and pull them out of the gutter,
19:40 restore in them His beautiful character
19:43 and then set apart through the time of trouble,
19:45 through the time that He comes to take us home
19:47 and say, "This is the power of Jesus Christ."
19:50 This is His redemption.
19:53 Three losers, that's you and Wayne and who else?
19:56 Are you--
19:58 Well, Ron, there's more than three,
19:59 there's hundreds, there's thousands out there
20:01 that don't testify, but they've experienced
20:03 the same renewing from Jesus Christ.
20:05 All right, this leads me to a question.
20:07 If homosexuality is condemned in the Bible
20:13 as abomination or a sin issue then, Wayne,
20:16 because I know you're dying to answer this question.
20:19 Does it really matter how we ended up
20:22 that way in the first place?
20:24 What is it that really matters
20:26 how we got there or how we get out of it?
20:29 Well, you know, what really truly matters
20:32 is our decision, our daily and moment,
20:34 moment by decision with Jesus Christ.
20:37 And, you know, He convicted my heart.
20:39 Once that conviction took place,
20:42 I know that I belong to Him.
20:44 And so, you know, as soon as that conviction took place,
20:47 I began to see that there were truths
20:51 that hadn't been uncovered.
20:55 I developed a passion to want to go out
20:58 and say to our church leaders, our pastors,
21:01 "I know what it is now."
21:03 I know what it is.
21:04 I know the answer to being able to come out of that gay life
21:10 and return to a life in Jesus Christ."
21:12 And all along,
21:14 I thought it had been this deep dark secret
21:16 and what it was,
21:18 was developing this intimacy with Jesus Christ
21:23 and little did I know that
21:24 God was gonna turn around and take that
21:27 and put us in positions that we could speak to churches
21:31 and congregations and leadership today
21:33 and have them come to us afterwards and say,
21:35 you know what, that wasn't really about homosexuality.
21:38 That really is about any kind of sin temptation.
21:42 That is really about involving people
21:44 in getting to know Jesus Christ in their own personal relation.
21:47 Not so much the relationship always that's going this way,
21:51 but definitely the relationship is,
21:54 that is going this way because in the end,
21:57 it is us before God and our Maker
21:59 and where He is saying,
22:00 you know, what was your decision?
22:03 See, we are all a part of that theater of grace, aren't we?
22:06 We are being used in a way
22:09 along with any other sinner out there
22:11 that is being drawn to Christ in living a new life in Christ.
22:16 We too are being used to demonstrate the power of God
22:21 to save His people from their sins.
22:24 It is a way of helping to vindicate God's character
22:28 because He's accused before the universe
22:30 of being that impotent God
22:32 that can maybe save this person and that person
22:34 but certainly not Mike or Wayne or Ron.
22:39 So we are part of that theater of grace.
22:42 Ron, will you tell the story of the guy that's,
22:45 you know, in the river drowning.
22:47 I was just going to go there. Oh, that's my favorite.
22:48 Because, you know,
22:50 if a person is drowning in the sea,
22:54 doesn't really matter why.
22:56 You know, the lifeguard comes out in the boat
22:58 and he comes up to the person glub glubbing in the sea
23:00 and says "How did you get out here?
23:03 Did you fall in?
23:04 Did you get caught in a riptide?"
23:06 Were you pushed? "Did you fall off a boat?
23:08 Did you get pushed in?
23:09 I did that to my brother once.
23:12 You know, what-- how did you get here?"
23:15 And we laugh at that of course, not.
23:18 What does the lifeguard do?
23:20 He extends the saving hand.
23:22 Isn't Jesus like that?
23:23 Amen. Amen.
23:25 And so to those who feel that they are born gay
23:30 doesn't Jesus just say, "Well, I have an answer."
23:32 If you're going to blame your heredity
23:35 on the choices that you are making
23:37 to stay in this condition,
23:40 I have a solution.
23:42 Be what?
23:44 If you think-- Be born again.
23:45 There you go. Yes. Yes.
23:46 Then be born again. Amen.
23:48 And if you're born again,
23:49 now you have God for your father,
23:51 your partaker of divine nature.
23:55 And now who are you going to blame?
23:58 And I think that's a beautiful thing
24:00 that He-- Jesus just has an answer for every objection.
24:03 I've found as I listen to certain objections
24:08 to the salvation for the homosexual.
24:11 I have found answers from God himself
24:14 for every single argument out there.
24:19 There comes up a question,
24:20 I read an article once that was based upon a question
24:24 that is homosexuality asexual orientation
24:29 or is it a sexual preference?
24:34 Wayne, are you a taker on that one?
24:35 I would love to address that.
24:37 You know, I would like to say that,
24:40 you know, God gave sex
24:42 as a gift of intimacy between Adam and Eve
24:45 that was never meant to be an identity or an orientation.
24:49 Orientation came about by the counterfeit.
24:52 You know, by the enemy taking this thing
24:55 and saying that sex is our identity.
24:58 I mean, even at one point it was looked at
25:00 as homosexuality as being a mental illness.
25:03 And then the psychology,
25:06 not the Bible turned around and said "Oh, no, no.
25:08 It's not a disturbance.
25:10 It's not an illness,
25:12 but it's actually an orientation.
25:14 That came about in our culture.
25:16 That's in the Bible
25:17 you look and you read throughout the Bible,
25:20 there are two orientations,
25:21 either you're oriented to Jesus and the cross
25:24 or you're oriented to the world.
25:27 Very good.
25:30 You know, I didn't even understand the nuances of that
25:35 but I knew that if Jesus said that,
25:37 that I wasn't allowed to have it.
25:40 For me, it had to be very simple.
25:42 He either had the answer or He didn't.
25:44 And as I followed him,
25:46 I didn't have to choose to be straight.
25:48 I just chose Jesus Christ
25:49 and He was the one that brought those feelings in
25:52 and took out the old feelings that weren't acceptable.
25:55 So I think we can summarize here that,
25:58 you know, we've talked about being,
26:00 excuse me, being born gay, being born straight,
26:04 and the acceptable alternative lifestyle
26:10 and that it really doesn't matter.
26:12 Because, you know, as I searched through the Bible
26:14 I don't really find Jesus interrogating people
26:18 as to why they are whatever sinner they are.
26:21 He knows.
26:23 Just to Mary, "I don't condemn you
26:25 and I'm not going to ask you why you're doing this."
26:28 Sin is a mystery, isn't it?
26:30 I mean, can it be explained?
26:32 Can it really be excused?
26:35 He offers the solution.
26:37 And so I just love that thought
26:39 when we think we are born gay or born this way
26:43 that Jesus simply says "Well, let's just--
26:46 why don't you just be born again?
26:47 Let's start over.
26:49 Start over with a clean slate."
26:51 Wash away the past.
26:52 That's right. Yeah.
26:54 And then to answer that question,
26:55 is homosexuality a sexual preference
26:59 or sexual orientation?
27:01 The very word orientation in the dictionary indicates
27:04 there's choice involved and if there's choice involved,
27:09 there's also the word in the dictionary
27:11 for reorientation
27:12 which is certainly about choice and being redirected.
27:17 And so we come to the question if we look at it carefully,
27:20 "Is it a sexual orientation or a sexual preference?"
27:25 I would say in light of the gospel,
27:26 if you know there's a way out that God says be born again,
27:31 then it becomes a choice, doesn't it,
27:33 where you may have thought it was your orientation
27:35 and you're locked in all of your life.
27:38 In the end it does come down to a choice, a preference.
27:42 In the light of the gospel,
27:44 homosexuality would be a sexual preference.
27:48 We thank you for tuning into Pure Choices today
27:52 and hope that you will continue making those pure choices
27:55 in your daily walk.