Participants: Joshua Nelson (Host), Dajanae Maxwell, James Brandon, Jeremy Anderson, Kimberly Pearson
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000055
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that
00:04 some material may be too candid for younger children.
00:39 Hello, and welcome again
00:40 to another edition of Pure Choices.
00:42 I'm your host Pastor Joshua Nelson.
00:45 And I'm so excited
00:46 and glad you decided to join us again.
00:48 We are having another amazing topic today.
00:51 We're talking about self-destruction,
00:54 self-denial really, and we're really going to get
00:57 into this topic of dying to self.
00:59 And so before we begin to introduce the panel,
01:02 let's just bow for a moment of prayer.
01:05 Dear heavenly Father, we just ask again that
01:07 you would allow us to die to ourselves
01:10 even as we begin to discuss this topic,
01:13 in Jesus' name we pray.
01:14 Amen. Amen.
01:16 All right, to my left, I have Kimberly Pearson
01:19 who is the Associate Chaplain
01:21 at Oakwood University in Huntsville, Alabama.
01:24 Yes, yes.
01:25 Then I have Jeremy Anderson
01:26 who is an author and a speaker in Madison, Alabama.
01:31 And actually, he is the author of this book
01:34 which we are using our title from
01:36 which is called "Self-Destruction".
01:38 So we're really happy to have him today
01:41 to talk to us a little more about this book.
01:43 Of course, it says "How to die to self
01:45 and live in the Spirit of God, Self-Destruction".
01:49 Happy having Jeremy Anderson here,
01:51 the author of this book.
01:52 And next we also have Dajanae Maxwell,
01:56 who is a Oakwood university Theology student.
02:00 Amen. All right, all right.
02:01 Representer for the ladies.
02:02 That's right, that's right.
02:04 And then we have James Brandon,
02:06 who is a university campus chaplain
02:09 in Tampa, Florida.
02:10 So we have a great, great panel,
02:12 and we're going to get into this subject.
02:15 All right, so let's start talking about this topic
02:17 of self-destruction, self-denial.
02:19 But first, we just got to answer the question,
02:21 what is self-destruction
02:22 because a lot of people may be wondering,
02:24 "Well, what is that all about?"
02:25 I mean, what are you talking about.
02:26 We're not talking about anything else
02:28 but we're talking...
02:29 But spiritual suicide, spiritual denial.
02:32 You know, a destruction of your spiritual self.
02:34 We're not talking about real suicide,
02:35 just make sure that's clear.
02:38 So expand on that a little bit, Jeremy,
02:39 what is this really all about?
02:41 You know, I've been a Christian for 33 years like all my life.
02:44 You know, I've been in the church,
02:46 and I'm just recently understanding this concept
02:48 of self-destruction, self-denial.
02:50 And so one would say,
02:52 "I've truly just began to truly live."
02:55 If we look at the Biblical reference
02:56 of what Jesus said in Luke 9:23,
02:58 He gave His disciples very clear instructions
03:01 on what to do and how to live
03:03 if they are to be disciples.
03:05 Christians, right?
03:06 He said, "There's three things you must do,
03:08 deny yourself, pick up your cross,
03:09 and follow me."
03:11 And it's evident, we can't pick up our cross,
03:12 we can't follow God if we don't deny ourselves.
03:15 So for me, denial of self
03:17 is getting to a point where we say,
03:18 "Lord, not my will but Your will be done."
03:21 And everything we do, we're looking to please God.
03:23 Wow. Mm-hm.
03:24 All right, I like that.
03:26 I think, I think what's so rich about this topic
03:29 is that the self-denial thing is major
03:31 because it's really kind of cool
03:33 because it's a call to die
03:35 but at the same time, it's a call to live.
03:39 So you're dying but
03:41 in that act of dying actually
03:42 you're resurrecting a new person.
03:44 Mm-hm. And the thing about that so...
03:47 There's a tension that we all struggle with our hearts
03:49 and our minds are always warring against each other.
03:52 Our hearts are passionate
03:53 and it wants to indulge and everything.
03:54 It wants to take, take, take,
03:56 but our hearts have to kind of try to convince our minds
04:00 to live out that thing, to play out that thing.
04:02 So our minds has to be connected with God
04:04 so that we can counteract
04:06 what we really want to indulge in
04:08 and learn how to deny, and kind of sit back,
04:10 and die so that our spiritual self can live.
04:16 You know, what I also think,
04:18 self-denial or destruction of self is anti...
04:24 It's antisocial, you know,
04:26 it goes against the grain of pop culture
04:30 and popular social thought, and popular,
04:34 you know, belief systems of, you know, protect myself.
04:38 Do everything possible to make sure that I'm okay,
04:40 I live, do you?
04:42 I'ma do me, get yours, I'ma get mine.
04:45 And that's the kind of the mentality we have
04:46 while denying self is opposite of that.
04:50 It means I'm going to do you. Mm-hm.
04:52 I'm going to do what's best for you.
04:54 I'm going to make sure that everybody has.
04:57 I'm going to put down everything that I want
05:00 and take up what God has for me
05:02 in the best interests of my spiritual life
05:04 and the life of my fellow man.
05:07 So as you're saying that, I just wanna, I mean,
05:09 it's only we watching and wondering
05:10 and I'm even asking, "Why even do this?"
05:12 You know, why even take the time to, you know,
05:15 just focus on somebody else or focus on God
05:18 and not focus on myself.
05:20 I mean it's really isn't... It's my life.
05:23 You know, so I've got to work about,
05:24 worry about myself, you know.
05:25 So why should I even do this? Why should I do this?
05:27 It's the fact that God created you.
05:30 God created me.
05:31 God created everyone listening and with that,
05:35 with that fact, understanding that God,
05:39 in the sense, denied himself,
05:41 not in the sense, but very practically,
05:43 when he was here on earth as Jesus Christ,
05:46 He denied his feelings.
05:48 And so what makes us think we don't have to.
05:50 And in denying your feeling of not wanting to suffer
05:55 and you denying your feeling of,
05:57 "Oh, I want to get that despite
06:00 who may be affected and how they will be affected."
06:03 It's very...
06:04 It's I want to be like Christ.
06:08 So I will do the things that He did,
06:11 even though it hurts my flesh.
06:15 But it will grow my spirit, so that's why I do it.
06:18 Mm-hm, okay.
06:20 And, you know, what happens, you know,
06:21 that's the way she said that was so perfect.
06:23 You know, what Christ did here was He lived a life of service.
06:26 Everything He did was anti-self,
06:28 you never saw cars floating
06:30 from town to the next, He walked.
06:32 You never saw Him using His powers for His self.
06:34 He used it to serve others.
06:36 He denied himself to a point where He even gave His life.
06:39 So I think there's something deeper here,
06:41 at if we can't get to the root of self-denial, it's sin.
06:46 Self like our sinful selfish natures...
06:47 There you go.
06:49 Is like that's what we're wired to.
06:52 And if we look at what Isaiah says,
06:53 the enemy Satan when he was in heaven.
06:55 Lucifer at that time, He said that,
06:57 "I would exalt myself above the heavens."
06:59 You know, he was made and created to worship God,
07:02 just like we all are.
07:03 We're created to worship God. He was a covering cherub.
07:06 He was over the "praise team" with the choirs.
07:08 But His focus took off of where from God to his self.
07:12 Yeah. How he's beautiful.
07:14 How he can sing.
07:15 And he began to worship himself and that...
07:16 And it says, the Bible says that,
07:18 "Iniquity was found in his heart."
07:19 And so this is what we're battling here.
07:22 We're battling self, our will versus God's will.
07:24 And that's what I really want to touch on
07:26 because that is the root, that is...
07:27 I mean, we have to understand that our self is not like God,
07:31 that we are against God.
07:33 You know, so that's really...
07:35 You know, when we're on this,
07:37 this program right now trying to talk about this,
07:39 you know, we're recognizing that we...
07:42 It's not about us, you know,
07:43 we don't want it to be about us because we know who we are.
07:45 We know that we are faulty and we're bad.
07:48 So we need to be about somebody else
07:49 other than us, you know.
07:53 James, you anything to add to that?
07:54 Because, you know,
07:55 in really looking at this thing,
07:57 still people may be wondering,
07:58 well, what does it look like?
07:59 You know, what is...
08:01 What does self-destruction look like?
08:02 I mean, do I...
08:03 Is there a moment when I just
08:05 put myself to bed and say, "I'm done"?
08:07 You know, how does that... What do I do?
08:08 How does that really come about?
08:10 Yeah. Good question.
08:12 I think that's something that
08:13 we all struggle with who we are,
08:15 try to, try to find out how that can really work,
08:17 you know, especially because
08:18 as was mentioned the pop culture,
08:21 that the current on with the world that we live in,
08:23 everything is saying indulge.
08:26 I think how that looks is truly asking God to baptize us
08:32 with the Holy Spirit.
08:35 And that really...
08:36 It makes sense because
08:37 when Christ was baptized with water
08:39 after He got up from the baptism of water, He...
08:43 The skies opened up and in, you know,
08:46 "This is my son who I'm well pleased,"
08:47 and He got a firm
08:48 and He got anointed with the Holy Spirit.
08:50 And once he was anointed with this Holy Spirit,
08:51 then He was able to go in the wilderness,
08:54 which He was tempted by the Devil for 40 days.
08:56 And I think that,
08:58 that's where we are, we're like,
08:59 well, how do we then go into this wilderness,
09:01 where everything is being
09:04 just compassed about us in all this sin,
09:07 all these temptations of being around us,
09:08 how do we then stand firm?
09:10 And how do we live? Right.
09:12 And as truly being in the morning like,
09:14 in the morning really like Christ,
09:16 following Christ's example getting up,
09:18 "God, I'm giving myself to you, my desires, my plans,
09:22 I'm putting me at Your feet,"
09:23 and just asking the Holy Spirit to live inside you
09:27 so that your desires,
09:29 your heart that's deceitfully wicked,
09:31 it gets recreated.
09:34 An example for that to me would be,
09:37 through this process of sanctification, you know,
09:40 I used to, I mean...
09:41 Well, before you go on that side,
09:42 what is sanctification?
09:44 Just kind of... Yeah, yeah.
09:45 Sanctification is basically a settling in holiness,
09:48 kind of, moving from where you are
09:51 to daily getting to, kind of,
09:55 we being reflecting more of the image of God.
09:56 So... Day-to-day basis, yeah.
09:58 Yeah, exactly.
09:59 So as the Holy Spirit infills you,
10:00 your desires are more inclined to Godly desires.
10:05 And you don't, you know, things that are sinful,
10:07 they kind of, they seem off to you.
10:10 Whereas, you used to like to indulge and used to,
10:13 you know, be comfortable around those things.
10:15 Those things kind of become like...
10:18 You don't feel comfort, your spirit is not settled
10:20 because it's not your spirit.
10:21 It's not yourself.
10:22 It's the Holy Spirit that's in you.
10:24 So things like music and things that you hear,
10:27 I mean, one thing for me like cursing
10:28 when people curse it's like my...
10:30 I'm just like, you know, it's just, it feels so off,
10:33 it feels so wrong, where before
10:35 it didn't really used to matter.
10:36 So it is a daily
10:38 asking of the infilling of your Holy Spirit.
10:40 That's kind of how it looks like.
10:41 I don't wanna get you off your point
10:42 because you're making example of something but...
10:44 I don't wanna...
10:46 You're good. We good? Okay, go ahead.
10:47 The story that he...
10:48 Well, not the story but the...
10:50 Okay, so Christ was baptized.
10:53 And then the Spirit fell on Him.
10:55 God acknowledged, "This is My son
10:58 who I am well pleased."
10:59 And then He was able to go
11:01 through the wilderness experience.
11:02 And then He was able to deny himself,
11:04 so He is fasting, right?
11:07 So Christ is fasting
11:08 and the tempter is coming to Him
11:11 and challenging Him to boast.
11:15 Challenging Him to show all the power that He has.
11:19 But Christ denies that because He know He can.
11:22 And He knows who He is because His Father said,
11:26 "You are My son.
11:27 So I don't have to prove it to you."
11:30 I can deny myself in all that I know I can do
11:33 because I know who I am, and I know where I stand.
11:36 And, you know, it's so interesting that
11:37 both can talk about 'cause I was,
11:39 as we were talking, I was thinking that very thing
11:41 about part of the reason is self-destruction
11:44 ties into value systems and identity.
11:47 When I know who I am, who I belong to,
11:50 and who I come from,
11:51 I don't have to prove anything to anybody
11:53 but it also equips me to serve other people.
11:57 And so we have a huge issue with value system and identity.
12:00 If I don't value you, who cares if I kill you,
12:03 who cares if cuss you out,
12:04 who cares if I sleep with you, because I don't value you.
12:07 But when I learned about who I am, God said to Jesus,
12:11 "This is My son."
12:12 And so when Satan tempted Him and said, "Who are you?"
12:15 He already knew who He was. Yeah.
12:16 So when someone says, "Yo, jump, do something,"
12:19 you know, temptation.
12:21 Well, you ain't a man unless you sleep with me
12:22 or you're not that...
12:24 I don't have to prove anything to you
12:25 'cause I know who I am and I'm valued.
12:28 And so dying to self ties into identity.
12:31 I can remain strong because of who I belong to
12:35 and who God is.
12:36 And it's not easy.
12:37 Paul's struggle, in the Bible, Paul says,
12:39 "That which I want to do..." Yeah.
12:40 "I don't do, the thing that I don't want to do.
12:42 Those are the very same things that I do."
12:44 So it's a daily struggle.
12:46 But when I know who I am,
12:48 I know where I can go to get power
12:51 to keep going when I mess up.
12:52 Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
12:54 That power, that power point is really rich
12:57 because I believe that Christ made, of course,
12:59 the ultimate sacrifice, when He went to Calvary.
13:02 But before He went and allowed them
13:04 to put Him on that cross, He had some time in the garden.
13:07 And when He was in the Garden of Gethsemane,
13:09 it was a really rough time He was having.
13:11 And He went to the garden
13:12 three different times to pray to God.
13:14 And each time He said, "Lord, is there any way
13:16 that this cup can pass from me?"
13:18 But He said, "No, not my will but Thy will be done."
13:21 Three different times, I mean,
13:22 that was a really painful or deal
13:24 that He was going through.
13:25 So realistically, the process of self-denial
13:28 is a painful process.
13:29 We have to move past what we want and we say,
13:31 "You know, what God, not my will
13:33 but Thy will be done.
13:34 So the someone watching looking in the real practical place,
13:37 I would say that throughout the day,
13:39 your grocery shopping to what school you go to,
13:42 to who you date, you're just saying,
13:43 "God, what is that you want from me?"
13:46 As supposed to me operating in a carnal mind,
13:48 the flesh like the worldly desires what I want,
13:50 just taking a pause and say,
13:52 "Okay, God, what do you want?"
13:53 It's the decision I'm about to make,
13:55 glorify you or am I going to glorify myself?
13:57 And so and that only works if we have the infilling
14:00 of the Holy Spirit within our minds.
14:02 Yeah, and you know,
14:03 that's what you said too about it being painful...
14:06 Is the real part of it, you know,
14:08 we want people to realize that this is a...
14:09 It's a hard process is that,
14:11 as you said sanctification process
14:12 is not an easy process, it is painful.
14:15 And Paul even likens it on to crucifixion.
14:17 To crucify myself so crucifixion,
14:20 it's pretty painful, you know,
14:21 it's not something easy,
14:23 and we watch and we follow Jesus' path
14:25 through the crucifixion.
14:27 We can, you know, we see how He...
14:28 The passion because He goes through to the cross,
14:30 and He's, you know, wearing the cross,
14:33 He's nailed to the cross.
14:34 I mean, those are painful things and so.
14:36 Especially talking about pure choices,
14:38 you're going to have to go through a time in your life
14:40 when it's going to be very painful, I mean.
14:42 So let's talk about the pain a little bit.
14:43 Let's talk about our journey and maybe how it really feels
14:47 and process because it's not easy.
14:48 I mean, from my experience, it's not, it's not easy.
14:50 It's hard, it's a fight.
14:51 You can be in tears sometimes
14:53 because you want to do certain things
14:54 but you just say,
14:55 "Ah, God, please trade me in a clean heart," you know.
14:57 We want a blessing without the burden.
14:59 Yeah, yeah. It's right.
15:01 We never wanna go through the tough times.
15:02 And you don't get the blessing without the burning.
15:05 And when we talk about giving us a clean heart
15:07 in the purification process, purity, right,
15:10 everything we're talking about here follows a line.
15:12 And so I believe that God wants us to get to a point
15:14 where he's able to purify our characters, right?
15:17 And so we're going to the fire,
15:18 just as the fire purifies the goal.
15:20 And so there are a things...
15:21 Anything that purifies goes through
15:22 the destruction process.
15:24 That's right, that's right.
15:25 And so sometimes God will put us in that fire
15:27 and allow us to get to a form,
15:28 where we can listen to His Holy Spirit,
15:29 we can deny ourselves because at that time
15:31 we're adopting the character of Christ.
15:33 And then we're able to deny ourselves.
15:35 We're able to pick up our cross and embrace the persecution
15:38 and we're able to follow Christ.
15:39 But yeah, that's the next level sacrifice
15:41 He's calling us to make.
15:42 There's always as with the expectation in the surety
15:45 that there's glory at the end of the day.
15:47 Oh, come on, talk about it. So with the kind...
15:49 With the fact that Christ had to endure
15:52 and that He had to deny himself
15:53 that He was on the cross,
15:54 He had in mind the purpose at the end of the day.
15:58 So for us personally, where we go through things
16:02 we have to deny ourselves versus,
16:03 you know, you're so impulsive,
16:04 you say whatever, you do whatever,
16:06 you're all over the place.
16:07 But then once you're in Christ,
16:09 you realize that you need
16:10 to be a little bit more together,
16:12 that you need to say, "Okay, Father, can I?
16:15 God, is this what you want me to do?"
16:17 And then it hurts, It's not necessarily
16:20 what I want to do, but it's what I know I should.
16:24 And the purpose behind it is what drives it.
16:27 Well, the Bible talks about, you know, pressing.
16:31 And it says, "Not that I have already attained,
16:34 not that I've already made it, but this is what I do.
16:36 I press towards the mark."
16:38 Now in order to press, what does that mean?
16:40 There's resistance. Yeah.
16:42 There is so that pressing, that pushing process
16:45 involves coming against some resistance.
16:48 There is going to be flesh resistance
16:50 to what you're trying to do.
16:51 If you have normally been very sexually active
16:54 and you decide that
16:55 you're going to commit your life to God,
16:57 and you aren't going to satisfy the desires
16:59 of your flesh of yourself, you want to put that to death,
17:04 that means be done with it.
17:06 That involves pressing against that desire,
17:09 pressing against those late-night temptations,
17:11 pressing against those texts, suggestive text messages.
17:15 And that's what it is as,
17:17 so as you press it involves resistance.
17:19 But what happens when, you know, when you workout,
17:21 what happens when you do resistance?
17:23 You get stronger. You get stronger.
17:24 You get stronger.
17:26 So that's kind of how I see it.
17:27 You press against the resistance
17:29 until you get strong enough to move forward.
17:31 And that really is paying the picture of
17:33 the great controversy
17:34 that is happening to all of us, you know,
17:36 because not only are we, you know,
17:38 we're drawn away by our own lust,
17:40 you know, but we're also fighting
17:42 spiritual battles, spiritual warfare
17:43 who's you know the Devil adversary
17:45 is trying to tell us, "Don't die to self."
17:46 You know, "Don't let Christ leaving you."
17:48 So in what you said too goes into a couple of points
17:50 I want to bring out
17:52 and want us to discuss little more
17:53 about your spirit versus your flesh
17:55 and how then feeding those two
17:58 is going to help you gain the victory
18:00 in this pursuit toward self-denial.
18:02 So I'll let you go with that one.
18:04 Yeah, yeah, that's that whole heart
18:06 and the mind thing that heart and mind connection.
18:10 And so many times we're thinking,
18:13 we think that we can't indulge and we...
18:18 Sometimes we label things as sacrifices so okay, you know,
18:22 "I want to go and you know,
18:24 have sex with this girl or whatever."
18:25 And then you're saying.
18:27 Well, you know,
18:30 that's what I want to do and I want to do it.
18:32 But I think that if you sacrifice something
18:36 or if you give up something of lesser value
18:41 and you get something greater, it's not a sacrifice,
18:45 it's an investment.
18:48 Give something of a lesser, so now you're saying, okay.
18:50 If you're living in the Spirit of God
18:51 and that's your temptation you're saying,
18:52 "You know what,
18:54 I'm going to put this thing right now
18:56 of gratification right now,
18:58 this is of a lesser value than I would get
19:02 if I put that on the side
19:03 and save all of that from my wife,
19:05 save all of that for my husband."
19:07 And that's the ultimate satisfaction.
19:09 So you're not really sacrificing.
19:10 That's right, yeah.
19:12 You're really making an investment.
19:13 I like that.
19:14 And there's so many other things, you know,
19:16 when people come to Christ and Christ has requirements.
19:19 You know, living a Christian life
19:20 is not necessarily rosy
19:22 but at the end of the day...
19:24 That's right.
19:25 The things that you are saying,
19:26 "Okay, I'm putting this aside because they're of lesser value
19:29 and I'm getting what's greater."
19:30 You know, music or you know,
19:32 watching different movies and being in certain circles
19:36 and indulging in lust and all these different things.
19:38 Those things are...
19:40 You're not sacrificing those things,
19:41 Christ is given the ultimate sacrifice.
19:44 And He came down and He was, He's God
19:46 and He's, and He's...
19:48 That was a sacrifice.
19:49 So if He sacrificed for us, yeah,
19:51 how much should we value ourselves?
19:54 It's like, wow, God made an investment in us, you know,
19:57 He sacrificed...
19:58 Yeah, He for a sacrifice for us.
20:00 So just making those decisions based on not simple
20:04 and not what's going on now,
20:05 but what we can see in the future
20:07 is definitely key to trying to wrestle with that.
20:11 Yeah, you know, just looking at, you know,
20:14 in another practical way of dying of for self
20:18 and living in the Spirit of God,
20:20 the Lord gave me this concept a few years ago of,
20:24 you know, starving the flesh and feeding the spirit.
20:27 And so, you know, we all have a flesh,
20:29 a sinful of carnal side,
20:30 we want to do what we want to do.
20:32 We want to do what pleases us
20:34 and then we have this spiritual side
20:35 that tends to, you know,
20:37 what God is trying to connect with us
20:38 and be in tune with him.
20:39 And so I let people know, if you have two boxers, right,
20:42 they're the same height, the same stature,
20:44 the same weight, the same arm length,
20:46 and, you know, both of them are fit,
20:48 you know, the same.
20:50 When this comes time to box,
20:51 it's going to be a good back
20:52 some as they can go back and forth,
20:54 back and forth.
20:55 But if you take one boxer and you start the boxer
20:57 for a whole week before the boxing match,
20:59 you can imagine who is going to win the one, that's fed.
21:01 And it's the same way in our spiritual life.
21:03 If we can get to a point
21:04 where we can starve the flesh, right,
21:06 watching the stuff we listen to,
21:08 the music, watching what we watch on TV,
21:10 what we put into our bodies different toxicants.
21:13 When we seize on that,
21:14 but we begin to feel the Spirit of God
21:16 within us prayer,
21:17 Bible study, fasting, worship, service,
21:20 you know what I'm saying, that's how we feed the spirit,
21:23 and that's how we'll continually grow
21:25 moving forward the mark of righteousness.
21:26 Yeah, and I'm very happy you said that because, you know,
21:29 self-destruction can't happen
21:31 without also filling yourself with something...
21:34 That's right. That's right.
21:35 Because if you're just removing everything,
21:37 you know what the Bible says, and you know,
21:38 then a bunch of more demons are gonna come inside of you.
21:40 You have to be able to fill yourself,
21:42 so let's talk a little bit about the filling of yourself.
21:45 And really in the process of
21:46 a sanctification again of Christ
21:48 trying to do this work in you
21:50 because again let's make sure we talk about this too
21:52 because it's not about you just...
21:54 Again if your self-destruction has happened,
21:57 you can't say, "I'm doing this myself."
21:59 You know, it's still Christ in you,
22:00 giving you the will to even do His good pleasure.
22:02 You know, so in doing, in doing this thing,
22:06 in doing this self-destruction thing,
22:08 what are some practical things that we can do
22:10 to kind of begin the process and kind of get ourselves
22:12 or feed that boxer, if you're saying like that,
22:15 you know, I mean getting us in the right place.
22:17 Well, I think one of the first things
22:19 we need to do is be honest with ourselves.
22:20 A lot of times we try to deny the things we wrestle with.
22:24 "Oh, I only drink casually, socially,
22:28 or I'll only have sex in a committed relationship."
22:31 You know what I mean? And so we pacify our sins.
22:34 We have this little pet sins that we like,
22:36 we keep in our back pocket, it's not that bad.
22:40 If most people can be honest with themselves, we know,
22:43 you know that it's not right, it's something in it
22:46 that makes you feel like I shouldn't be doing this.
22:49 Acknowledging those things with God and saying,
22:51 "God, I wrestle with this, I struggle with this."
22:53 And then also understanding things that are generational.
22:57 Stuff that I have wrestled with that,
22:58 my momma wrestled with, my daddy wrestled with,
23:00 my great granddaddy wrestled with,
23:02 and being honest and saying,
23:04 "This is something I struggle with,
23:05 God, I need you to give me the victory over it."
23:08 So I think first being honest
23:09 and then developing safe accountability system.
23:11 Yeah. Okay.
23:13 You know what I mean,
23:14 putting ourselves in relationship with people
23:16 who are able to say,
23:17 "No, no, sister, come, come with me.
23:20 Let's, let's, let's pray together,
23:21 less wrestle with this together,
23:23 let's, let's talk about it together."
23:25 Not to indulge together
23:27 or not to make each other feel good
23:29 about what you're doing but to say,
23:31 "I'm going to hold you accountable
23:33 for dying to that thing, that flesh, that self."
23:36 So honesty and accountability
23:37 that I think are two very important things
23:40 in moving forward.
23:41 Yeah, yeah, and you know,
23:43 and also in saying that
23:44 you have to be really real to yourself, you know,
23:46 because in many situations especially, in the church,
23:49 I'm talking about in the church now, you know,
23:51 a lot of people are not honest with themselves
23:53 and not honest with what they're really going through
23:55 and how bad things really are, you know.
23:57 So I don't know if someone...
23:59 You wanna say something on that?
24:00 That honesty part, you know,
24:03 in the first chapter of the book,
24:06 I explained to the reader a process
24:09 that God took me through.
24:11 And that was a painful process.
24:12 I reached a certain point in my ministry,
24:14 I was traveling all over the world,
24:15 and I began to feel myself.
24:17 I mean that book came from a dark place.
24:19 Like God, and God saying...
24:21 I was praying to God saying,
24:22 "God, take me to the next level."
24:23 He said, "I'll take you to the next level.
24:25 But Ima first show you where you currently are."
24:27 And He showed me how selfish and self-centered
24:30 I could be even in ministry
24:32 and that blew my mind and broke me all the way down.
24:35 And I mean, it took me physically down through there.
24:37 And to let me see how much of an issue
24:41 self could be, even in ministry.
24:44 And so it was eye opener so what Chaplain Pearson
24:47 is saying is so keen.
24:48 We have to recognize where we are with God
24:50 in order for us to move forward.
24:52 Yeah. Yeah.
24:53 And talking about this, this suffering, right?
24:58 Talking about this but suffering with the purpose,
25:01 I think about 2 Corinthians, right,
25:03 from chapter 1 to chapter 12.
25:07 That just focuses on that this suffering is for a purpose
25:10 and this suffering is a lot.
25:12 Everybody right here
25:13 and people that are listening
25:15 can understand that good fruits have come out of suffering,
25:19 that if I didn't go through that,
25:20 then I would never understand what I understand today.
25:23 So it's not just, just because.
25:25 But if I...
25:26 But if I make pure choices within these tough situations.
25:31 Then I can better understand God's heart.
25:33 I can better understand my purpose,
25:35 and the reason why I can make these pure choices
25:38 is 'cause I already know who I am.
25:40 So now that I know, okay, I'm a daughter of God,
25:42 what does that mean in my every day life?
25:44 What is that, what does that look like?
25:46 There's a, there's the fact that the Queen of England,
25:50 she holds herself in a certain manner.
25:52 There's things that she does
25:53 and there's things that she doesn't do.
25:55 So in that concept that I'm the king of the most high God
25:59 that even though I'm suffering though...
26:02 How Christ did
26:03 and I have to partake in that suffering
26:05 that He did.
26:06 And even in Hebrew speaks about,
26:08 what child doesn't get disciplined by his,
26:11 by their father that the fact that I'm going through this
26:15 and is purposeful
26:17 and it's a denying of the flesh
26:19 that it shows that God does love me
26:20 and He is purifying my character.
26:22 Amen. Yeah, yeah.
26:24 I think that's so important to keep that,
26:25 the end result in mind, you know,
26:27 because it is going to be tough, you know,
26:29 it is going to be tough.
26:30 But you've got to keep the reason
26:31 why you doing this, you know, and the blessing.
26:33 So I mean, just real quick, I mean,
26:34 we have few more seconds here
26:35 but what are some benefits from self-denial?
26:37 What are some benefits that you can expect to have?
26:41 I believe we get close to the God.
26:43 And then we have a better understanding
26:45 of the sacrifice that He made.
26:47 And at the end we're getting our characters
26:49 to a point where God is like,
26:51 "Now you can reside in heaven with me."
26:53 That's what, that's what...
26:54 We're living our lives here on this earth
26:56 to hear God say, "Well done."
26:58 And so He's trying to get our characters right.
26:59 We're not really going
27:00 to the Kingdom of Heaven right now, you know.
27:02 And you know what else, it puts us in a position
27:04 to serve other people.
27:07 When I recognize I'm going through something,
27:08 then I'm not too high up to help you
27:10 'cause you're going through something.
27:11 That's right. Praise God.
27:12 And in our churches especially,
27:14 as young adults and as young people,
27:15 and you know, for those viewing,
27:17 you know, creating safe communities
27:20 where people know that I'm going through it,
27:22 you're going through it,
27:24 so let's go through it together,
27:25 let's talk together, and let's serve each other.
27:28 And that creates the kind of community
27:30 where the Holy Spirit can dwell
27:33 and just produce all kinds of change.
27:36 Well, that about sums it up for us,
27:38 we're just going to wrap it up
27:40 with this verse from Galatians 2:20, Paul says,
27:43 "I have been crucified with Christ,
27:45 and I no longer live but Christ lives in me."
27:49 Amen. Wow.
27:50 What a powerful testimony,
27:51 and thank you all for your input.
27:53 Remember always to make pure choices.