Participants: Joshua Nelson (Host), Dajanae Maxwell, James Brandon, Jeremy Anderson, Kimberly Pearson
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000059
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:39 Hello, and welcome to Pure Choices. 00:41 I'm your host, Pastor Joshua Nelson. 00:43 I'm so glad that you decided to join us 00:44 for another edition of Pure Choices today. 00:47 And we're gonna get into another exciting topic. 00:49 We're talking about same sex or homosexuality, 00:53 and even bisexuality, 00:54 we're gonna talk about this today. 00:56 But before we do go into that and introduce our panel, 00:58 just wanna pause for a moment of prayer. 01:02 Dear heavenly Father, we just ask again that 01:04 You would guide us and that You would be here with us 01:06 today as we discuss, in Jesus' name we pray, amen. 01:08 Amen. 01:10 All right, let's begin introducing. 01:12 Here to my left, we have Dajanae Maxwell, 01:14 who is a Oakwood University theology student. 01:18 Happy to have her here today. 01:19 Also we have Kimberly Pearson, who is the associate chaplain 01:23 at Oakwood University, all right. 01:26 And then we have James Brandon, 01:29 who is the chaplain over there in Tampa, 01:31 Florida at a university there, 01:33 and so happy to have him here as well. 01:35 We have Jeremy Anderson over there. 01:38 Yes sir, yes sir, who is a Christian author 01:41 and a speaker as well, and he's from Madison, Alabama. 01:44 So we have a great panel. 01:46 And a good discussion we're gonna get into today, 01:47 talking about same sex, homosexuality. 01:50 And this of course is something that 01:52 we have as young people have seen 01:54 and heard a lot about nowadays, 01:56 and so we wanna really get our perspective 01:58 and kind of talk about this as Christians 02:00 and really discuss it. 02:01 So the first question simply, and this is a big question 02:04 because people have been asking and wondering, 02:06 is homosexuality a sin? 02:10 Yes. Homosexuality is a sin. 02:13 And I know there's a lot going on even in the Christian world, 02:16 not even in the secular world 02:18 that is trying to argue against it. 02:20 And one of the verses, is it okay that if I read? 02:24 One of the verses is Romans 1:26-28, which says, 02:29 "For this reason God gave them up 02:31 to dishonorable passions. 02:33 For their women exchanged natural relations for those 02:39 that were contrary to nature, 02:42 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women 02:47 that were consumed with passions for one another, 02:50 men committing shameful acts with men 02:54 and receiving in themselves 02:58 the due penalty for their error." 02:59 And there's basically when I thought about the verse, 03:03 it just basically says that men are having sex with men, 03:07 and women are having sex with women, 03:08 and that's unnatural and contrary 03:10 to what God has ordained to happen. 03:12 Right, right. Yeah, so it's pretty clear. 03:15 You know, what she said was so clear, it's unnatural. 03:20 You know, we wanna get real deep, 03:21 you know, I know people, friends of mine 03:23 who were like look for specific verses, 03:25 there are ton of verses in the Bible. 03:27 And we wanna twist it, we wanna put it other ways, 03:29 it's very clear, it's unnatural. 03:31 Yeah. 03:32 God made a rabbit, He made a male rabbit, 03:34 He made a female rabbit, 03:35 get together they have baby rabbits, right? 03:38 And it's the same with all of the animals. 03:40 And it was the same thing, 03:41 biblically He made Adam and He made Eve. 03:43 I mean, just to be plain and practical. 03:45 I think the problem is, it's in our minds. 03:48 We have a natural sense of rebellion 03:51 as opposed to submission within God. 03:53 And so I know even in myself 03:54 when I was in the world dealing with other sins, 03:57 and I believe personally that a sin is a sin, right? 03:59 So if I'm drinking alcohol 04:01 and this is sin just like homosexuality. 04:03 But you know, I try to justify and I think when we move past 04:07 that mode of trying to justify and embrace it for what it is, 04:11 you know, we can move forward at that point. 04:12 But I believe it's definitely a sin, 04:14 I concur with what you're saying 04:16 but it's not natural. 04:18 And I think that's the number one red flag. 04:20 Okay, okay. 04:22 So then what I asked is, you know, 04:24 as being Christians on here, 04:25 we're talking to others who are, 04:28 and so we're trying to live a pure life, you know, 04:29 in Christian life, can you be a Christian 04:33 and a homosexual? 04:35 And even as you're thinking about that, 04:37 can you be a Christian and a fornicator? 04:39 Can you be a Christian and be bisexual? 04:41 Can you be a Christian 04:43 and someone who is not making pure choices? 04:46 You know, when it comes to that, 04:48 you know, my take on it is, 04:51 can you be a homosexual and still be a Christian? 04:54 Someone may challenge, but my view as a Christian, 04:58 is one who really follows Christ. 05:00 So one would say that you can't be a Christian, 05:02 a real Christian and be a homosexual, right? 05:06 That's living in sin openly, whether you're embracing, 05:09 whether you feel like God made you that way, 05:11 you know, what I tell people? 05:12 God can remake you, God can restore you 05:14 if that's how you feel. 05:15 So I believe that when you live a life in open rebellion, 05:18 that's when you're taking God's name in vain. 05:20 Taking His name in vain isn't saying, 05:21 "Oh, my God!" 05:23 It's saying, "I'm a Christian, I'm following Christ." 05:26 But your life reflects the opposite, 05:29 you know, and so one would say 05:31 that you can't be just a raging alcoholic 05:33 and then you just get drunk and just live life 05:35 how you wanna live life 05:36 but then still carry the name of Christ. 05:38 One would say that you can't be a Christian 05:40 and can't be homosexual. 05:41 Okay. Go, go ahead. 05:44 Well, I'll just go. 05:46 It's interesting about the word Christian, you know, 05:48 this relation obviously the word Christian is Christ, 05:51 you're going there, I can see. 05:53 But you know, the apostles in the New Testament, 05:56 they didn't come together and say, 05:58 "You guys, let's call ourselves Christians." 06:00 Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. 06:01 You know, the name was given to them by others, 06:03 and they were like, man, they always talk about Christ, 06:05 you know, they're always doing things like Christ did. 06:07 So they gave them that name and they received it. 06:09 It was a badge of honor to them. 06:11 You know, we're Christian because we believe in Christ 06:14 and we follow His steps and follow His plan. 06:16 And as the whole, with the whole a natural thing, 06:19 God has an order, and God is an orderly God 06:22 and He has a plan 06:23 and a purpose in a way things should go. 06:26 And when we're not aligning ourselves 06:29 with that agenda, 06:31 then it's hard to really having your room to say 06:34 that we are truly representing Christ 06:36 or we're truly Christians. 06:38 Okay, I understand. Yeah, yeah. 06:40 I mean, he pretty much stole the thought out of my head, 06:43 you know, out of my mind. 06:44 But you know, we're billboards, we're advertisements, 06:47 and so if I work for certain company. 06:52 But let's say I work for, I don't know, Target, 06:55 and I wear Walmart pair of paraphernalia, 06:58 I wear blue and khaki, and I wear the Walmart badge 07:02 and I walk around Walmart, 07:03 would you come to me and ask me for help? 07:05 Nope. Why? 07:06 You don't look the part. Because I don't look the part. 07:08 I'm not, I don't look like I belong, 07:10 I don't look like someone who you can go to, 07:12 to receive direction in Target. 07:14 So if I say I'm a Christian, but I look like, practice like, 07:18 behave like the world, then I'm not a beacon, 07:22 I'm not a marker that people can come to 07:24 for identification of how to get to Christ, 07:27 what Christ is supposed to look like, 07:28 what Christ is supposed to behave like. 07:30 And so I think that is where saying, 07:33 I'm a Christian and I'm openly homosexual comes out, 07:36 but that's also part of the reason 07:38 why we have so many closet homosexuals 07:40 and so many closet bisexuals, 07:42 and so many people who are struggling with their sexuality 07:45 that will practice quietly 07:47 but still bear the name of Christ. 07:49 Now, you know, I want to speak to and I just, 07:52 you know, as you're saying that I know and, you know, 07:54 there's a whole movement right now of just, 07:57 of homosexual individuals who really have, you know, 08:00 they would say, you know, of course no one can know 08:02 who of us really has relationship with God. 08:04 But you know, has and it seems to have a really 08:07 some serious relationship with God, 08:08 you know, and the true experience, you know. 08:09 So how do we, you know, really reconcile, you know, 08:12 even lot of us who are dealing with other sins, 08:15 we have a relationship with God. 08:16 We say that, you know but yet we're still dealing 08:18 with other sins maybe not homosexuality. 08:21 So I'm still not sure if I'm agreeing with every, 08:23 what you've all told... 08:25 I'm not, might be, you need to clarify for me I guess. 08:26 And that's the part that I wanted to speak on is 08:29 I have a lot of homosexual friends. 08:32 And I watch this video that basically spoke on 08:36 what you just hit on where the video started off 08:39 with all these individuals, male and females, 08:41 speaking about how, you know, they were in the church, 08:44 and they grew up in the church, 08:46 and they were AYS, this or, you know, 08:49 different positions even in the church. 08:51 And then realize that 08:53 they didn't necessarily have relationship with God 08:54 because they finally discovered one. 08:56 So now they're talking about how they love Christ. 08:59 And then after that, they go into 09:01 but they now started realizing 09:03 that I have homosexuality tendencies wane. 09:05 And so, the video basically just described 09:09 how these individuals struggle with homosexuality, 09:13 and they weren't necessarily having homosexual relations 09:17 but they were certain, you know, the man, 09:20 he may have did his wrist like this 09:22 or he may have been butch. 09:24 And still, but still have homosexual attractions. 09:27 He, is he now not a Christian 09:29 because he wrestles against sexual, 09:33 I mean, homosexual feelings. 09:35 And I would say, "Yes, he still is a Christian," 09:38 because the issue that I had is the open homosexual 09:42 where you're having sex and you're just telling people 09:45 that there's nothing wrong with it, 09:47 or you're not necessarily having sex 09:50 but still you don't see anything wrong with it. 09:52 I didn't have sex yesterday and so I'm okay, 09:55 but understanding that, 09:56 "Okay, this is something that I'm dealing with. 09:58 This may be my thorn." 10:00 The thorn in the flesh that Paul speaks about 10:02 that I pray for it to go away. 10:04 There's someone at Oakwood right now 10:06 that has a video out who talking about 10:08 he's prayed for the thorn to go away. 10:13 And it hasn't gone away. 10:15 He's prayed on the floor prostrate. 10:18 "Lord, I do not want to be gay." 10:21 He's had sex with a whole bunch of girls 10:23 so that he can get away from this homosexual feeling 10:27 but it won't go anywhere. 10:29 And so what he's come to a conclusion 10:31 and many other people who struggle with this is, 10:33 "This may be my thorn. 10:35 I may always struggle with this 10:37 but that doesn't mean that I have to indulge in it 10:39 and that's the difference. 10:41 You know, that was a really good point 10:43 that you brought up. 10:44 And I wanna make sure that I re-innovate 10:46 or clarify my thought 10:47 'cause I don't want the panelist 10:49 or the viewers to think that I'm saying, you know, 10:51 you can't love God or you can't be a Christian 10:53 and still struggle with this thing. 10:55 Yes, you can. 10:56 But there are those that have homosexual tendencies 10:59 and that's different from 11:01 practicing homosexuality, right? 11:02 You got a boyfriend, 11:04 you got a girlfriend of the same sex, 11:06 that's different when you just live openly 11:08 and boldly in sin. 11:09 But I believe that God 11:11 is claiming those and saying, "Look. 11:12 Yes, you're my son. Yes, you're my daughter. 11:14 And you're struggling with this thing and I love you," 11:15 because my sin, your sin, our sins are no different 11:19 than someone that's in the same sex relationship. 11:21 But the question is are we struggling, 11:23 are we battling, like are we asking God 11:26 to forgive us and to make us new. 11:28 Are we submitting our will to God and seeking His will? 11:32 See, a lot of times, we fall victims to self. 11:35 We're living to please our self. 11:37 Well, this is what feels natural. 11:38 Okay, but the word says differently. 11:40 And so we need to move to point where we say, 11:41 "You know what, God, 11:43 not my will but Thy will be done." 11:45 It feels natural because I was born into sin. 11:47 We're shaped into iniquity, right? 11:49 So they were generational curses 11:51 that have been often passed down, 11:53 but now the society has embraced, right, 11:55 this thing of homosexuality. 11:57 And so it's like, "It's okay, be loud, be proud, 12:00 be bold, be who you are." 12:02 And so now people are coming out, say, 12:03 "Hey, this is me 12:05 and you have to respect you'll take it." 12:06 Yeah, yeah. 12:07 And you have to be careful with, you know, 12:09 listening to that type of the society saying it to us, 12:11 because again, all of us are born into the sin 12:14 as you just said. 12:15 And as young people watching or even growing up, 12:18 the family needs to remind the children that, 12:21 "Hey, you're gonna be dealing with some things," 12:22 you know, "you're gonna have to be 12:24 living a life of self denial," 12:25 just because it feels good, just because I know, 12:28 I desire drugs or something like that, I desire alcohol, 12:32 okay so now I'll just indulge in my desires. 12:34 No, you have to resist sometimes, 12:35 you have to resist. 12:37 I think the hard thing with homosexuality and why, 12:38 we're gonna talk with this, why it's such a hot topic 12:42 is because it doesn't really seem like 12:44 it's really hurting anybody, you know. 12:46 It doesn't seem like 12:47 it's really hurting anybody directly 12:48 or even yourself, you know. 12:50 And so that's kind of like, 12:51 "Oh, then why are we not supposed to do it?" 12:53 you know. 12:55 So what we wanna then talk about is even further, 12:59 why is it? 13:00 Why is it bad? Why is it wrong? 13:03 Why is it something that we shouldn't even discuss 13:05 and say that shouldn't be a part of us as Christians. 13:08 Well, you know, one of the things you said 13:09 where people say it doesn't hurt anybody, 13:12 you can't judge me, you can't, 13:15 you know, don't look at me, look at yourself, 13:17 but part of the thing 13:18 is we call ourselves Christians. 13:20 We're supposed to reflect the image of Christ. 13:23 And when what we do goes against that, 13:25 then we may not, 13:26 I know I may not be still hurting you 13:28 but I'm destroying the image of God 13:32 which is greater, more detrimental than, 13:38 you know, some of the other self destructive things 13:41 that we do. 13:42 And so we have to take a look at 13:43 I'm destroying the image of God by stepping outside 13:47 of the natural inclination of the family structure. 13:51 The family is supposed to be, God made Adam, God made Eve. 13:55 God said, "Be fruitful and multiply, have children." 13:58 That was the family structure that was set up before sin. 14:02 So that is the initial, the prototype of God. 14:07 And so the image of God, 14:08 so then when you add 14:10 and you substitute out the natural passions 14:12 and replace them with other structures, 14:15 you are now distorting the image of God, 14:18 not just between in our relationship 14:20 and now for children. 14:23 Parents are supposed to be the first reflection of God 14:25 that children see. 14:27 So when they see parents of the same sex, 14:30 their first image of God is an unnatural one 14:34 which continues to pass on 14:35 and break down the family structures. 14:37 You look at TV now, 14:39 modern family and all these things. 14:41 Now you cannot watch a TV show 14:42 without some sort of homosexual parental relationship, 14:47 or relationship involves 14:48 and it's natural, or if it's unnatural, 14:51 the family is trying to adjust 14:53 and get used to this new picture. 14:55 Yeah, that's a good point. 14:56 So, you know, as we're considering this, 14:59 you know, I really appreciate what you just said. 15:02 Why is it then that or what's the agenda behind it? 15:06 You know why is it, which is we were talking about how, 15:08 you know, this is nothing new. 15:09 You know, we've seen this is the Bibles, 15:11 this was an issue, this has happened through. 15:13 But now it seems to be more avert, 15:15 more out there. 15:17 You know, why is it? 15:18 And I wanna ask James 15:20 as, you know, being a chaplain, you know. 15:22 Why is it that something 15:23 that we're struggling with a lot 15:25 seemingly as young people now? 15:26 Why is it a big struggle now, you think? 15:29 You, kind of asked me two questions. 15:30 I'll address the first one. 15:34 I think the reason why as Christians 15:36 it's as Kim already touched on 15:38 but it's, I guess, so tabooed, so... 15:44 It's something that... 15:46 You're saying, it's hard to talk about or... 15:48 Yeah, yeah. 15:49 It's hard to talk about 15:50 is 'cause there is so many parameters 15:55 put in place to kind of hide it. 16:00 And it kind of pushed under the rug. 16:03 And we're not really teaching 16:06 about how to truly reflect that image 16:10 in all of our decisions. 16:12 And I think that on the university campus, 16:16 you have kids, students who come 16:20 from all different types of walks of life. 16:23 And something might be okay for you, 16:25 but it's not okay for me. 16:27 And there's a word that was used earlier, judging. 16:31 You know, we can't judge these people 16:33 but thing about us 16:34 as Christians is we can't judge. 16:38 We shouldn't judge, 16:39 but there's a difference between judging 16:40 and holding someone accountable. 16:42 So I think that we should be 16:44 able to hold each other accountable 16:46 to if we all have the same baseline, 16:49 and all have the same standard 16:51 because it's not like my opinion versus your opinion. 16:54 You know, the verse that was read earlier, it's clear. 16:57 I mean, you can't really refute that, 16:59 or you can't really twist that, 17:00 you know, how you wanted to. 17:02 So I think it's about really embracing 17:07 who you are in God's image 17:09 and wanting to position yourself 17:11 in that agenda. 17:12 And that the laid gratification which means, 17:15 you know, I may be struggling with these tendencies 17:18 but I know, ultimately, I wanna reflect God's image, 17:21 and I need to overcome these things 17:24 so that I can get to where God really wants me to be. 17:26 All right, all right. 17:27 I'm gonna have something pick up on the same part 17:29 which is, you know, also then why is it so prevalent? 17:32 What is the agenda behind it? 17:33 And then after that, 17:34 we're gonna go to talking about how to react 17:36 then to those who are homosexual? 17:39 What is the agenda behind the media pushing it? 17:41 Is that what you're asking? 17:42 Yeah, and why is it so such a big prevalent thing now? 17:44 I mean, like Chaplain Pearson was saying before, 17:48 it's not new. 17:49 It's not like homosexuality has always been there, 17:52 like you were saying, in the Bible, 17:53 it's always been there. 17:54 But it was something that you have to keep quiet 17:57 that I can talk about other sins 18:00 that I'm dealing with, 18:02 but homosexuality, 18:03 you can't, I can't talk to anybody about that, 18:05 if I'm, because I'll be stoned, I'll be killed. 18:09 You know, even today in the islands, 18:11 like you're homosexual, they will kill you. 18:14 So it's something that you weren't able to say, 18:18 this is what I'm struggling with. 18:19 So as a reaction to the other extreme, 18:23 people are out, just out all over the place. 18:26 You have to accept it 18:27 because this is something that's real. 18:29 Yeah. Okay, it's real. 18:31 I won't discount that it's real 18:33 and that it's not necessarily... 18:35 There's a concept between nature and nurture, 18:38 whether because I was molested that I'm homosexual 18:41 or is it because I was born this way? 18:43 And it can be both, 18:45 really because we were born in sin 18:47 and shaped into iniquity, 18:49 into the iniquity is the nurture part. 18:52 So it's a reaction here to both extremes 18:55 and there needs to be a balance. 18:57 Yeah, so it really sounds like 18:58 it's been, it's also probably 18:59 I think the church's problem too or fault 19:01 because somewhere, I'll say, 19:04 we've had a hard time dealing with people who have sinned. 19:06 You know, you just kind of walk where we just to be look, 19:08 look pretty, look nice. 19:09 You know, don't ruffle the feathers, 19:10 just don't talk about your issue. 19:12 Okay, you have that trouble. 19:13 Okay, be quiet, you know, just look good today. 19:15 But we've haven't really tackled 19:17 just being able to talk about sin, 19:18 you know, and of course, that's been a big one. 19:20 Okay, of course, I'll talk about that one, you know. 19:22 So now, how then now can we change that 19:25 and how as Christians, 19:26 as people in the church can we now begin to 19:29 or how should we then react to individuals 19:31 who are struggling with homosexuality? 19:33 I would say, I would say love. 19:36 Just I mean, that's the answer. 19:39 God, love. 19:40 God is love. 19:41 I mean, I cannot approach someone who's struggling 19:45 or may not even realize that it's a sin 19:47 if I don't love them. 19:49 I won't receive anything you have to say 19:51 if you come at me condemning, 19:53 let me tell you about yourself, 19:54 and I don't even know you. 19:55 So first you have to love all people 19:58 despite what they're going through. 20:00 That's what God calls us to do, that's what throughout John, 20:03 the Gospel of John, verses like John 3, 20:05 love, brotherly love, 20:07 and brotherly love is not just... it's agape. 20:10 At the agape, you threw your sin 20:12 even when you don't, when they receive my love. 20:15 That's where you have to start. 20:17 You know, I find this challenging 20:20 because as a church, we want to point out the sins, 20:24 but we don't want to remedy them. 20:26 And so if the church is supposed to be a hospital, 20:28 here's the thing. 20:29 We have the alcoholics ward, we have the fornicator ward, 20:32 we have the divorce ward. 20:36 We don't have a homosexual ward. 20:38 We don't have a place in our church 20:41 that's ready to deal with the hurt, 20:44 and the pain, 20:45 and the different issues 20:47 that come with wrestling with that sin. 20:49 And so we have got to first 20:52 and I specially think as young people, 20:54 as young adults, as young pastors, and leaders, 20:57 be the ones that initiates safe spaces in our churches 21:01 where people can come 21:03 and talk about what they're dealing with 21:04 and receive not rebuke, 21:08 but love and support. 21:11 And so, you know, it's not just enough to preach 21:13 at people from the pew, 21:15 we've got to get in there 21:17 and say, "Okay, how can I help you? 21:19 Can I be an accountability partner for you?" 21:21 How can we address some of the things 21:23 that have gone on? 21:24 And so I think we've got to start creating safe space 21:27 'cause in reality, 21:29 our church may not necessarily be ready to deal with 21:32 the stuff that they want to talk about. 21:36 Okay. 21:37 To answer, you know, your question is to why, 21:40 you know, homosexuality in the media is so prevalent, 21:42 I believe it, 21:44 it's because the enemy is trying to make a mockery 21:47 of something so beautiful that God created. 21:48 Wow. 21:50 You know, the relationship between man and woman, 21:51 and everything he does, 21:53 he doesn't wanna just to attack us, 21:54 he wants to make a mockery of it. 21:56 And so I believe 21:58 that there are people in the industry 21:59 that are possessed, 22:00 that are literally living their lives serving Satan, 22:04 you know, just to make it plain. 22:05 You know, they're not seeking the kingdom. 22:07 And if we look at some of the programs, 22:09 some of the TV shows, 22:10 some of the name of these movies, 22:12 like this is so worldly. 22:13 Yeah. 22:14 That's nothing to do with God and it's clear. 22:16 And so let's just call it for what it is. 22:17 I mean, we're battling demons here, right? 22:19 They're not flesh and blood. 22:20 And so I believe that they had these shows 22:23 and then they make society embrace it. 22:26 I was in the airport and I was on the phone 22:28 with the friend of mine, 22:29 and he said to call me, and I said a joke. 22:31 And I've kind of felt bad for saying that 22:32 but then the people around me felt really bad. 22:35 I was like, oh my gosh, that's so gay. 22:37 And just like the whole... 22:38 And I don't have any of this taste. 22:40 I got love for homosexuals like I'm praying for them, 22:42 I sin like they sin. 22:44 But I made the comment 22:45 and you know the whole airport stopped and looked at me. 22:47 And they were about to like crucify me. 22:49 And I was like, wow, the society nowadays 22:52 has just painted this picture that says, 22:54 "You can't touch it, you better not say anything. 22:57 Don't discuss it. 22:58 And I really believe, Chaplain Pearson, 22:59 that our churches are not equipped 23:01 nowadays to even handle something like this. 23:03 And so that thing, 23:04 that's why shows like Pure Choices is a great outlet 23:07 and a great place for us 23:09 to build some more dialog about this situation. 23:10 Yeah, and we have... 23:12 and as the church today, you know, 23:13 being a part of that church, you know, 23:15 we're talking really about ourselves 23:16 when we say the church. 23:17 You know, we have to be the ones 23:19 that continue this conversation, 23:20 not just, and not only just talking about homosexuality 23:25 but and just the whole subject of pure choices in general. 23:29 You know, another thing now that we like to see 23:31 is pure choices sit downs like this to happen in churches, 23:35 you know, across, you know, all, everywhere, 23:38 just to have these and many of these conversations, 23:40 I'm talking about these type of things. 23:41 And I want to ask another question. 23:42 It may, I don't know, 23:44 how you're gonna react to this question 23:45 but do you think that homosexuality in the church 23:48 is a bigger problem than heterosexual promiscuity? 23:52 No, no, not at all like it's... 23:58 Homosexuality is a dominant topic, 24:01 definitely by far, it's more dominant 24:02 as far as the topic and the light 24:05 that's been shown on it. 24:06 But as far as practice, 24:09 there's more heterosexual fornication 24:11 than there is homosexual fornication 24:13 that's going on. 24:14 And we, yeah, that's it. 24:17 I mean, that explains... I don't know if I... 24:21 I don't know if I agree with that. 24:23 I believe the sexuality is a problem in our church. 24:25 Okay. 24:26 And so sexuality, especially with the images 24:29 that we're being bombarded with, 24:30 so it's a lot of heterosexual fornication 24:33 and things going on. 24:35 But is this bisexuality? 24:37 I'm having heterosexual interactions with you 24:40 but homosexual thoughts about her. 24:42 Okay. 24:43 You know, and so I think 24:44 when you tie in all these different dynamics, 24:46 it's not just whether you're straight, 24:48 whether you're homosexual. 24:50 The sexuality period is a problem 24:53 and the way a lot of our young people 24:54 in the church are dealing with this 24:56 is by being bisexual. 24:57 Okay. 24:58 Or like you said about the friend getting out there 25:01 and dating all of these other people and saying, 25:03 I'm gonna try to fix myself out of that mentality 25:06 by having sex with lots of other people, 25:08 but I'm still feeling some type of way. 25:10 And so I think that it's not necessarily 25:12 who's doing what more, 25:13 but the fact that there's a issue 25:15 with homosexuality in our church 25:17 that we have to start addressing 25:19 from a standpoint that says, 25:20 we're gonna call sin by its right name, 25:22 we're gonna address it, but we're gonna address it 25:24 through love, relationship and through safe spaces. 25:28 Okay. 25:31 And you can have this on if you like 25:32 but I wanna ask you all towards, 25:33 we're getting to the end of our program now, 25:35 what would you say to someone who's struggling with this? 25:38 What would you say to someone who's struggling 25:39 with any type of making a pure choice whatever, 25:42 what would you say to them? 25:43 And, James, you want to comment if you want to. 25:44 You know, don't give up. 25:47 Like flat out, like don't give up. 25:48 I know it seems hard, I know it seems heavy. 25:51 I know it's like that thorn in the side, 25:53 but we have to let people know not to give up. 25:57 And that if you continue to seek God, 25:59 when you starve the flesh, and feed the spirit, 26:01 things will change. 26:02 But I know of people who are in homosexual relationships 26:06 and have a homosexual crew 26:08 but say that they wanna change. 26:10 And if I'm an alcoholic and I'm hanging out 26:13 with other alcoholics at the bar, 26:15 it's gonna be hard for me to change. 26:16 Sometimes we need to get to a place of solitude. 26:18 You know, when I ask and I challenge people, 26:20 like how bad you wanna change? 26:22 You can pray, pray, pray all day, 26:23 are you wanting to fast. 26:25 Yeah. 26:26 The Bible says that only certain powers come 26:27 from prayer and fasting. 26:29 And I believe that we all have specific demons 26:30 that we're fighting. 26:32 We got to get to the point 26:33 where we start getting real serious 26:34 and real thorough about this battle. 26:36 And another thing I was gonna say in closing, 26:37 I believe that we try to put labels 26:39 in different tiers of sin in the church, right? 26:42 And so I'm looking at, 26:43 for sisters having sex constantly with her boyfriend, 26:46 and she knows it's wrong. 26:47 In God's eyes, that's just as equal to somebody 26:49 that's battling or dealing with homosexuality. 26:51 Exactly. Okay, real quick, someone else? 26:53 I think the Word of God is clear. 26:55 And we have to highlight things in our hearts like David said, 26:58 that we might not sin against God. 27:00 And just fortifying our minds with the word 27:03 and having that be our standard, our middle, 27:08 you know, not swing to the left or to the right. 27:10 And also just, you know, where the Bible declares 27:13 that we are more than conquerors. 27:14 Yeah. More than. 27:16 So exactly, I mean, I love history and I love to, 27:19 you know, Charlemagne and King Henry, and the faith, 27:22 and Louise XIII, and all these but they are conquerors 27:27 but at one point, they got conquered. 27:28 So Christ says that we're more than conquerors. 27:30 We're gonna live a life of continual victory... 27:32 Amen. 27:33 And as well as Jude 24, 27:35 that He's able to keep us from falling so. 27:36 Amen, amen. Well, that's where we're ending. 27:37 And the Bible says, my brothers, 27:39 if one of you should wander from the truth 27:40 and someone should bring him back, remember this, 27:43 whoever turns to sinner from the error of his way 27:46 will save him from death 27:47 and cover over a multitude of sin. 27:49 We have a duty to love and bring people, 27:51 protect them, bring them back to what God is calling them. 27:53 So God bless. |
Revised 2017-06-05