Pure Choices


Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Joshua Nelson (Host), Dajanae Maxwell, James Brandon, Jeremy Anderson, Kimberly Pearson


Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000059

00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:39 Hello, and welcome to Pure Choices.
00:41 I'm your host, Pastor Joshua Nelson.
00:43 I'm so glad that you decided to join us
00:44 for another edition of Pure Choices today.
00:47 And we're gonna get into another exciting topic.
00:49 We're talking about same sex or homosexuality,
00:53 and even bisexuality,
00:54 we're gonna talk about this today.
00:56 But before we do go into that and introduce our panel,
00:58 just wanna pause for a moment of prayer.
01:02 Dear heavenly Father, we just ask again that
01:04 You would guide us and that You would be here with us
01:06 today as we discuss, in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
01:08 Amen.
01:10 All right, let's begin introducing.
01:12 Here to my left, we have Dajanae Maxwell,
01:14 who is a Oakwood University theology student.
01:18 Happy to have her here today.
01:19 Also we have Kimberly Pearson, who is the associate chaplain
01:23 at Oakwood University, all right.
01:26 And then we have James Brandon,
01:29 who is the chaplain over there in Tampa,
01:31 Florida at a university there,
01:33 and so happy to have him here as well.
01:35 We have Jeremy Anderson over there.
01:38 Yes sir, yes sir, who is a Christian author
01:41 and a speaker as well, and he's from Madison, Alabama.
01:44 So we have a great panel.
01:46 And a good discussion we're gonna get into today,
01:47 talking about same sex, homosexuality.
01:50 And this of course is something that
01:52 we have as young people have seen
01:54 and heard a lot about nowadays,
01:56 and so we wanna really get our perspective
01:58 and kind of talk about this as Christians
02:00 and really discuss it.
02:01 So the first question simply, and this is a big question
02:04 because people have been asking and wondering,
02:06 is homosexuality a sin?
02:10 Yes. Homosexuality is a sin.
02:13 And I know there's a lot going on even in the Christian world,
02:16 not even in the secular world
02:18 that is trying to argue against it.
02:20 And one of the verses, is it okay that if I read?
02:24 One of the verses is Romans 1:26-28, which says,
02:29 "For this reason God gave them up
02:31 to dishonorable passions.
02:33 For their women exchanged natural relations for those
02:39 that were contrary to nature,
02:42 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women
02:47 that were consumed with passions for one another,
02:50 men committing shameful acts with men
02:54 and receiving in themselves
02:58 the due penalty for their error."
02:59 And there's basically when I thought about the verse,
03:03 it just basically says that men are having sex with men,
03:07 and women are having sex with women,
03:08 and that's unnatural and contrary
03:10 to what God has ordained to happen.
03:12 Right, right. Yeah, so it's pretty clear.
03:15 You know, what she said was so clear, it's unnatural.
03:20 You know, we wanna get real deep,
03:21 you know, I know people, friends of mine
03:23 who were like look for specific verses,
03:25 there are ton of verses in the Bible.
03:27 And we wanna twist it, we wanna put it other ways,
03:29 it's very clear, it's unnatural.
03:31 Yeah.
03:32 God made a rabbit, He made a male rabbit,
03:34 He made a female rabbit,
03:35 get together they have baby rabbits, right?
03:38 And it's the same with all of the animals.
03:40 And it was the same thing,
03:41 biblically He made Adam and He made Eve.
03:43 I mean, just to be plain and practical.
03:45 I think the problem is, it's in our minds.
03:48 We have a natural sense of rebellion
03:51 as opposed to submission within God.
03:53 And so I know even in myself
03:54 when I was in the world dealing with other sins,
03:57 and I believe personally that a sin is a sin, right?
03:59 So if I'm drinking alcohol
04:01 and this is sin just like homosexuality.
04:03 But you know, I try to justify and I think when we move past
04:07 that mode of trying to justify and embrace it for what it is,
04:11 you know, we can move forward at that point.
04:12 But I believe it's definitely a sin,
04:14 I concur with what you're saying
04:16 but it's not natural.
04:18 And I think that's the number one red flag.
04:20 Okay, okay.
04:22 So then what I asked is, you know,
04:24 as being Christians on here,
04:25 we're talking to others who are,
04:28 and so we're trying to live a pure life, you know,
04:29 in Christian life, can you be a Christian
04:33 and a homosexual?
04:35 And even as you're thinking about that,
04:37 can you be a Christian and a fornicator?
04:39 Can you be a Christian and be bisexual?
04:41 Can you be a Christian
04:43 and someone who is not making pure choices?
04:46 You know, when it comes to that,
04:48 you know, my take on it is,
04:51 can you be a homosexual and still be a Christian?
04:54 Someone may challenge, but my view as a Christian,
04:58 is one who really follows Christ.
05:00 So one would say that you can't be a Christian,
05:02 a real Christian and be a homosexual, right?
05:06 That's living in sin openly, whether you're embracing,
05:09 whether you feel like God made you that way,
05:11 you know, what I tell people?
05:12 God can remake you, God can restore you
05:14 if that's how you feel.
05:15 So I believe that when you live a life in open rebellion,
05:18 that's when you're taking God's name in vain.
05:20 Taking His name in vain isn't saying,
05:21 "Oh, my God!"
05:23 It's saying, "I'm a Christian, I'm following Christ."
05:26 But your life reflects the opposite,
05:29 you know, and so one would say
05:31 that you can't be just a raging alcoholic
05:33 and then you just get drunk and just live life
05:35 how you wanna live life
05:36 but then still carry the name of Christ.
05:38 One would say that you can't be a Christian
05:40 and can't be homosexual.
05:41 Okay. Go, go ahead.
05:44 Well, I'll just go.
05:46 It's interesting about the word Christian, you know,
05:48 this relation obviously the word Christian is Christ,
05:51 you're going there, I can see.
05:53 But you know, the apostles in the New Testament,
05:56 they didn't come together and say,
05:58 "You guys, let's call ourselves Christians."
06:00 Right. Right. Yeah, exactly.
06:01 You know, the name was given to them by others,
06:03 and they were like, man, they always talk about Christ,
06:05 you know, they're always doing things like Christ did.
06:07 So they gave them that name and they received it.
06:09 It was a badge of honor to them.
06:11 You know, we're Christian because we believe in Christ
06:14 and we follow His steps and follow His plan.
06:16 And as the whole, with the whole a natural thing,
06:19 God has an order, and God is an orderly God
06:22 and He has a plan
06:23 and a purpose in a way things should go.
06:26 And when we're not aligning ourselves
06:29 with that agenda,
06:31 then it's hard to really having your room to say
06:34 that we are truly representing Christ
06:36 or we're truly Christians.
06:38 Okay, I understand. Yeah, yeah.
06:40 I mean, he pretty much stole the thought out of my head,
06:43 you know, out of my mind.
06:44 But you know, we're billboards, we're advertisements,
06:47 and so if I work for certain company.
06:52 But let's say I work for, I don't know, Target,
06:55 and I wear Walmart pair of paraphernalia,
06:58 I wear blue and khaki, and I wear the Walmart badge
07:02 and I walk around Walmart,
07:03 would you come to me and ask me for help?
07:05 Nope. Why?
07:06 You don't look the part. Because I don't look the part.
07:08 I'm not, I don't look like I belong,
07:10 I don't look like someone who you can go to,
07:12 to receive direction in Target.
07:14 So if I say I'm a Christian, but I look like, practice like,
07:18 behave like the world, then I'm not a beacon,
07:22 I'm not a marker that people can come to
07:24 for identification of how to get to Christ,
07:27 what Christ is supposed to look like,
07:28 what Christ is supposed to behave like.
07:30 And so I think that is where saying,
07:33 I'm a Christian and I'm openly homosexual comes out,
07:36 but that's also part of the reason
07:38 why we have so many closet homosexuals
07:40 and so many closet bisexuals,
07:42 and so many people who are struggling with their sexuality
07:45 that will practice quietly
07:47 but still bear the name of Christ.
07:49 Now, you know, I want to speak to and I just,
07:52 you know, as you're saying that I know and, you know,
07:54 there's a whole movement right now of just,
07:57 of homosexual individuals who really have, you know,
08:00 they would say, you know, of course no one can know
08:02 who of us really has relationship with God.
08:04 But you know, has and it seems to have a really
08:07 some serious relationship with God,
08:08 you know, and the true experience, you know.
08:09 So how do we, you know, really reconcile, you know,
08:12 even lot of us who are dealing with other sins,
08:15 we have a relationship with God.
08:16 We say that, you know but yet we're still dealing
08:18 with other sins maybe not homosexuality.
08:21 So I'm still not sure if I'm agreeing with every,
08:23 what you've all told...
08:25 I'm not, might be, you need to clarify for me I guess.
08:26 And that's the part that I wanted to speak on is
08:29 I have a lot of homosexual friends.
08:32 And I watch this video that basically spoke on
08:36 what you just hit on where the video started off
08:39 with all these individuals, male and females,
08:41 speaking about how, you know, they were in the church,
08:44 and they grew up in the church,
08:46 and they were AYS, this or, you know,
08:49 different positions even in the church.
08:51 And then realize that
08:53 they didn't necessarily have relationship with God
08:54 because they finally discovered one.
08:56 So now they're talking about how they love Christ.
08:59 And then after that, they go into
09:01 but they now started realizing
09:03 that I have homosexuality tendencies wane.
09:05 And so, the video basically just described
09:09 how these individuals struggle with homosexuality,
09:13 and they weren't necessarily having homosexual relations
09:17 but they were certain, you know, the man,
09:20 he may have did his wrist like this
09:22 or he may have been butch.
09:24 And still, but still have homosexual attractions.
09:27 He, is he now not a Christian
09:29 because he wrestles against sexual,
09:33 I mean, homosexual feelings.
09:35 And I would say, "Yes, he still is a Christian,"
09:38 because the issue that I had is the open homosexual
09:42 where you're having sex and you're just telling people
09:45 that there's nothing wrong with it,
09:47 or you're not necessarily having sex
09:50 but still you don't see anything wrong with it.
09:52 I didn't have sex yesterday and so I'm okay,
09:55 but understanding that,
09:56 "Okay, this is something that I'm dealing with.
09:58 This may be my thorn."
10:00 The thorn in the flesh that Paul speaks about
10:02 that I pray for it to go away.
10:04 There's someone at Oakwood right now
10:06 that has a video out who talking about
10:08 he's prayed for the thorn to go away.
10:13 And it hasn't gone away.
10:15 He's prayed on the floor prostrate.
10:18 "Lord, I do not want to be gay."
10:21 He's had sex with a whole bunch of girls
10:23 so that he can get away from this homosexual feeling
10:27 but it won't go anywhere.
10:29 And so what he's come to a conclusion
10:31 and many other people who struggle with this is,
10:33 "This may be my thorn.
10:35 I may always struggle with this
10:37 but that doesn't mean that I have to indulge in it
10:39 and that's the difference.
10:41 You know, that was a really good point
10:43 that you brought up.
10:44 And I wanna make sure that I re-innovate
10:46 or clarify my thought
10:47 'cause I don't want the panelist
10:49 or the viewers to think that I'm saying, you know,
10:51 you can't love God or you can't be a Christian
10:53 and still struggle with this thing.
10:55 Yes, you can.
10:56 But there are those that have homosexual tendencies
10:59 and that's different from
11:01 practicing homosexuality, right?
11:02 You got a boyfriend,
11:04 you got a girlfriend of the same sex,
11:06 that's different when you just live openly
11:08 and boldly in sin.
11:09 But I believe that God
11:11 is claiming those and saying, "Look.
11:12 Yes, you're my son. Yes, you're my daughter.
11:14 And you're struggling with this thing and I love you,"
11:15 because my sin, your sin, our sins are no different
11:19 than someone that's in the same sex relationship.
11:21 But the question is are we struggling,
11:23 are we battling, like are we asking God
11:26 to forgive us and to make us new.
11:28 Are we submitting our will to God and seeking His will?
11:32 See, a lot of times, we fall victims to self.
11:35 We're living to please our self.
11:37 Well, this is what feels natural.
11:38 Okay, but the word says differently.
11:40 And so we need to move to point where we say,
11:41 "You know what, God,
11:43 not my will but Thy will be done."
11:45 It feels natural because I was born into sin.
11:47 We're shaped into iniquity, right?
11:49 So they were generational curses
11:51 that have been often passed down,
11:53 but now the society has embraced, right,
11:55 this thing of homosexuality.
11:57 And so it's like, "It's okay, be loud, be proud,
12:00 be bold, be who you are."
12:02 And so now people are coming out, say,
12:03 "Hey, this is me
12:05 and you have to respect you'll take it."
12:06 Yeah, yeah.
12:07 And you have to be careful with, you know,
12:09 listening to that type of the society saying it to us,
12:11 because again, all of us are born into the sin
12:14 as you just said.
12:15 And as young people watching or even growing up,
12:18 the family needs to remind the children that,
12:21 "Hey, you're gonna be dealing with some things,"
12:22 you know, "you're gonna have to be
12:24 living a life of self denial,"
12:25 just because it feels good, just because I know,
12:28 I desire drugs or something like that, I desire alcohol,
12:32 okay so now I'll just indulge in my desires.
12:34 No, you have to resist sometimes,
12:35 you have to resist.
12:37 I think the hard thing with homosexuality and why,
12:38 we're gonna talk with this, why it's such a hot topic
12:42 is because it doesn't really seem like
12:44 it's really hurting anybody, you know.
12:46 It doesn't seem like
12:47 it's really hurting anybody directly
12:48 or even yourself, you know.
12:50 And so that's kind of like,
12:51 "Oh, then why are we not supposed to do it?"
12:53 you know.
12:55 So what we wanna then talk about is even further,
12:59 why is it?
13:00 Why is it bad? Why is it wrong?
13:03 Why is it something that we shouldn't even discuss
13:05 and say that shouldn't be a part of us as Christians.
13:08 Well, you know, one of the things you said
13:09 where people say it doesn't hurt anybody,
13:12 you can't judge me, you can't,
13:15 you know, don't look at me, look at yourself,
13:17 but part of the thing
13:18 is we call ourselves Christians.
13:20 We're supposed to reflect the image of Christ.
13:23 And when what we do goes against that,
13:25 then we may not,
13:26 I know I may not be still hurting you
13:28 but I'm destroying the image of God
13:32 which is greater, more detrimental than,
13:38 you know, some of the other self destructive things
13:41 that we do.
13:42 And so we have to take a look at
13:43 I'm destroying the image of God by stepping outside
13:47 of the natural inclination of the family structure.
13:51 The family is supposed to be, God made Adam, God made Eve.
13:55 God said, "Be fruitful and multiply, have children."
13:58 That was the family structure that was set up before sin.
14:02 So that is the initial, the prototype of God.
14:07 And so the image of God,
14:08 so then when you add
14:10 and you substitute out the natural passions
14:12 and replace them with other structures,
14:15 you are now distorting the image of God,
14:18 not just between in our relationship
14:20 and now for children.
14:23 Parents are supposed to be the first reflection of God
14:25 that children see.
14:27 So when they see parents of the same sex,
14:30 their first image of God is an unnatural one
14:34 which continues to pass on
14:35 and break down the family structures.
14:37 You look at TV now,
14:39 modern family and all these things.
14:41 Now you cannot watch a TV show
14:42 without some sort of homosexual parental relationship,
14:47 or relationship involves
14:48 and it's natural, or if it's unnatural,
14:51 the family is trying to adjust
14:53 and get used to this new picture.
14:55 Yeah, that's a good point.
14:56 So, you know, as we're considering this,
14:59 you know, I really appreciate what you just said.
15:02 Why is it then that or what's the agenda behind it?
15:06 You know why is it, which is we were talking about how,
15:08 you know, this is nothing new.
15:09 You know, we've seen this is the Bibles,
15:11 this was an issue, this has happened through.
15:13 But now it seems to be more avert,
15:15 more out there.
15:17 You know, why is it?
15:18 And I wanna ask James
15:20 as, you know, being a chaplain, you know.
15:22 Why is it that something
15:23 that we're struggling with a lot
15:25 seemingly as young people now?
15:26 Why is it a big struggle now, you think?
15:29 You, kind of asked me two questions.
15:30 I'll address the first one.
15:34 I think the reason why as Christians
15:36 it's as Kim already touched on
15:38 but it's, I guess, so tabooed, so...
15:44 It's something that...
15:46 You're saying, it's hard to talk about or...
15:48 Yeah, yeah.
15:49 It's hard to talk about
15:50 is 'cause there is so many parameters
15:55 put in place to kind of hide it.
16:00 And it kind of pushed under the rug.
16:03 And we're not really teaching
16:06 about how to truly reflect that image
16:10 in all of our decisions.
16:12 And I think that on the university campus,
16:16 you have kids, students who come
16:20 from all different types of walks of life.
16:23 And something might be okay for you,
16:25 but it's not okay for me.
16:27 And there's a word that was used earlier, judging.
16:31 You know, we can't judge these people
16:33 but thing about us
16:34 as Christians is we can't judge.
16:38 We shouldn't judge,
16:39 but there's a difference between judging
16:40 and holding someone accountable.
16:42 So I think that we should be
16:44 able to hold each other accountable
16:46 to if we all have the same baseline,
16:49 and all have the same standard
16:51 because it's not like my opinion versus your opinion.
16:54 You know, the verse that was read earlier, it's clear.
16:57 I mean, you can't really refute that,
16:59 or you can't really twist that,
17:00 you know, how you wanted to.
17:02 So I think it's about really embracing
17:07 who you are in God's image
17:09 and wanting to position yourself
17:11 in that agenda.
17:12 And that the laid gratification which means,
17:15 you know, I may be struggling with these tendencies
17:18 but I know, ultimately, I wanna reflect God's image,
17:21 and I need to overcome these things
17:24 so that I can get to where God really wants me to be.
17:26 All right, all right.
17:27 I'm gonna have something pick up on the same part
17:29 which is, you know, also then why is it so prevalent?
17:32 What is the agenda behind it?
17:33 And then after that,
17:34 we're gonna go to talking about how to react
17:36 then to those who are homosexual?
17:39 What is the agenda behind the media pushing it?
17:41 Is that what you're asking?
17:42 Yeah, and why is it so such a big prevalent thing now?
17:44 I mean, like Chaplain Pearson was saying before,
17:48 it's not new.
17:49 It's not like homosexuality has always been there,
17:52 like you were saying, in the Bible,
17:53 it's always been there.
17:54 But it was something that you have to keep quiet
17:57 that I can talk about other sins
18:00 that I'm dealing with,
18:02 but homosexuality,
18:03 you can't, I can't talk to anybody about that,
18:05 if I'm, because I'll be stoned, I'll be killed.
18:09 You know, even today in the islands,
18:11 like you're homosexual, they will kill you.
18:14 So it's something that you weren't able to say,
18:18 this is what I'm struggling with.
18:19 So as a reaction to the other extreme,
18:23 people are out, just out all over the place.
18:26 You have to accept it
18:27 because this is something that's real.
18:29 Yeah. Okay, it's real.
18:31 I won't discount that it's real
18:33 and that it's not necessarily...
18:35 There's a concept between nature and nurture,
18:38 whether because I was molested that I'm homosexual
18:41 or is it because I was born this way?
18:43 And it can be both,
18:45 really because we were born in sin
18:47 and shaped into iniquity,
18:49 into the iniquity is the nurture part.
18:52 So it's a reaction here to both extremes
18:55 and there needs to be a balance.
18:57 Yeah, so it really sounds like
18:58 it's been, it's also probably
18:59 I think the church's problem too or fault
19:01 because somewhere, I'll say,
19:04 we've had a hard time dealing with people who have sinned.
19:06 You know, you just kind of walk where we just to be look,
19:08 look pretty, look nice.
19:09 You know, don't ruffle the feathers,
19:10 just don't talk about your issue.
19:12 Okay, you have that trouble.
19:13 Okay, be quiet, you know, just look good today.
19:15 But we've haven't really tackled
19:17 just being able to talk about sin,
19:18 you know, and of course, that's been a big one.
19:20 Okay, of course, I'll talk about that one, you know.
19:22 So now, how then now can we change that
19:25 and how as Christians,
19:26 as people in the church can we now begin to
19:29 or how should we then react to individuals
19:31 who are struggling with homosexuality?
19:33 I would say, I would say love.
19:36 Just I mean, that's the answer.
19:39 God, love.
19:40 God is love.
19:41 I mean, I cannot approach someone who's struggling
19:45 or may not even realize that it's a sin
19:47 if I don't love them.
19:49 I won't receive anything you have to say
19:51 if you come at me condemning,
19:53 let me tell you about yourself,
19:54 and I don't even know you.
19:55 So first you have to love all people
19:58 despite what they're going through.
20:00 That's what God calls us to do, that's what throughout John,
20:03 the Gospel of John, verses like John 3,
20:05 love, brotherly love,
20:07 and brotherly love is not just... it's agape.
20:10 At the agape, you threw your sin
20:12 even when you don't, when they receive my love.
20:15 That's where you have to start.
20:17 You know, I find this challenging
20:20 because as a church, we want to point out the sins,
20:24 but we don't want to remedy them.
20:26 And so if the church is supposed to be a hospital,
20:28 here's the thing.
20:29 We have the alcoholics ward, we have the fornicator ward,
20:32 we have the divorce ward.
20:36 We don't have a homosexual ward.
20:38 We don't have a place in our church
20:41 that's ready to deal with the hurt,
20:44 and the pain,
20:45 and the different issues
20:47 that come with wrestling with that sin.
20:49 And so we have got to first
20:52 and I specially think as young people,
20:54 as young adults, as young pastors, and leaders,
20:57 be the ones that initiates safe spaces in our churches
21:01 where people can come
21:03 and talk about what they're dealing with
21:04 and receive not rebuke,
21:08 but love and support.
21:11 And so, you know, it's not just enough to preach
21:13 at people from the pew,
21:15 we've got to get in there
21:17 and say, "Okay, how can I help you?
21:19 Can I be an accountability partner for you?"
21:21 How can we address some of the things
21:23 that have gone on?
21:24 And so I think we've got to start creating safe space
21:27 'cause in reality,
21:29 our church may not necessarily be ready to deal with
21:32 the stuff that they want to talk about.
21:36 Okay.
21:37 To answer, you know, your question is to why,
21:40 you know, homosexuality in the media is so prevalent,
21:42 I believe it,
21:44 it's because the enemy is trying to make a mockery
21:47 of something so beautiful that God created.
21:48 Wow.
21:50 You know, the relationship between man and woman,
21:51 and everything he does,
21:53 he doesn't wanna just to attack us,
21:54 he wants to make a mockery of it.
21:56 And so I believe
21:58 that there are people in the industry
21:59 that are possessed,
22:00 that are literally living their lives serving Satan,
22:04 you know, just to make it plain.
22:05 You know, they're not seeking the kingdom.
22:07 And if we look at some of the programs,
22:09 some of the TV shows,
22:10 some of the name of these movies,
22:12 like this is so worldly.
22:13 Yeah.
22:14 That's nothing to do with God and it's clear.
22:16 And so let's just call it for what it is.
22:17 I mean, we're battling demons here, right?
22:19 They're not flesh and blood.
22:20 And so I believe that they had these shows
22:23 and then they make society embrace it.
22:26 I was in the airport and I was on the phone
22:28 with the friend of mine,
22:29 and he said to call me, and I said a joke.
22:31 And I've kind of felt bad for saying that
22:32 but then the people around me felt really bad.
22:35 I was like, oh my gosh, that's so gay.
22:37 And just like the whole...
22:38 And I don't have any of this taste.
22:40 I got love for homosexuals like I'm praying for them,
22:42 I sin like they sin.
22:44 But I made the comment
22:45 and you know the whole airport stopped and looked at me.
22:47 And they were about to like crucify me.
22:49 And I was like, wow, the society nowadays
22:52 has just painted this picture that says,
22:54 "You can't touch it, you better not say anything.
22:57 Don't discuss it.
22:58 And I really believe, Chaplain Pearson,
22:59 that our churches are not equipped
23:01 nowadays to even handle something like this.
23:03 And so that thing,
23:04 that's why shows like Pure Choices is a great outlet
23:07 and a great place for us
23:09 to build some more dialog about this situation.
23:10 Yeah, and we have...
23:12 and as the church today, you know,
23:13 being a part of that church, you know,
23:15 we're talking really about ourselves
23:16 when we say the church.
23:17 You know, we have to be the ones
23:19 that continue this conversation,
23:20 not just, and not only just talking about homosexuality
23:25 but and just the whole subject of pure choices in general.
23:29 You know, another thing now that we like to see
23:31 is pure choices sit downs like this to happen in churches,
23:35 you know, across, you know, all, everywhere,
23:38 just to have these and many of these conversations,
23:40 I'm talking about these type of things.
23:41 And I want to ask another question.
23:42 It may, I don't know,
23:44 how you're gonna react to this question
23:45 but do you think that homosexuality in the church
23:48 is a bigger problem than heterosexual promiscuity?
23:52 No, no, not at all like it's...
23:58 Homosexuality is a dominant topic,
24:01 definitely by far, it's more dominant
24:02 as far as the topic and the light
24:05 that's been shown on it.
24:06 But as far as practice,
24:09 there's more heterosexual fornication
24:11 than there is homosexual fornication
24:13 that's going on.
24:14 And we, yeah, that's it.
24:17 I mean, that explains... I don't know if I...
24:21 I don't know if I agree with that.
24:23 I believe the sexuality is a problem in our church.
24:25 Okay.
24:26 And so sexuality, especially with the images
24:29 that we're being bombarded with,
24:30 so it's a lot of heterosexual fornication
24:33 and things going on.
24:35 But is this bisexuality?
24:37 I'm having heterosexual interactions with you
24:40 but homosexual thoughts about her.
24:42 Okay.
24:43 You know, and so I think
24:44 when you tie in all these different dynamics,
24:46 it's not just whether you're straight,
24:48 whether you're homosexual.
24:50 The sexuality period is a problem
24:53 and the way a lot of our young people
24:54 in the church are dealing with this
24:56 is by being bisexual.
24:57 Okay.
24:58 Or like you said about the friend getting out there
25:01 and dating all of these other people and saying,
25:03 I'm gonna try to fix myself out of that mentality
25:06 by having sex with lots of other people,
25:08 but I'm still feeling some type of way.
25:10 And so I think that it's not necessarily
25:12 who's doing what more,
25:13 but the fact that there's a issue
25:15 with homosexuality in our church
25:17 that we have to start addressing
25:19 from a standpoint that says,
25:20 we're gonna call sin by its right name,
25:22 we're gonna address it, but we're gonna address it
25:24 through love, relationship and through safe spaces.
25:28 Okay.
25:31 And you can have this on if you like
25:32 but I wanna ask you all towards,
25:33 we're getting to the end of our program now,
25:35 what would you say to someone who's struggling with this?
25:38 What would you say to someone who's struggling
25:39 with any type of making a pure choice whatever,
25:42 what would you say to them?
25:43 And, James, you want to comment if you want to.
25:44 You know, don't give up.
25:47 Like flat out, like don't give up.
25:48 I know it seems hard, I know it seems heavy.
25:51 I know it's like that thorn in the side,
25:53 but we have to let people know not to give up.
25:57 And that if you continue to seek God,
25:59 when you starve the flesh, and feed the spirit,
26:01 things will change.
26:02 But I know of people who are in homosexual relationships
26:06 and have a homosexual crew
26:08 but say that they wanna change.
26:10 And if I'm an alcoholic and I'm hanging out
26:13 with other alcoholics at the bar,
26:15 it's gonna be hard for me to change.
26:16 Sometimes we need to get to a place of solitude.
26:18 You know, when I ask and I challenge people,
26:20 like how bad you wanna change?
26:22 You can pray, pray, pray all day,
26:23 are you wanting to fast.
26:25 Yeah.
26:26 The Bible says that only certain powers come
26:27 from prayer and fasting.
26:29 And I believe that we all have specific demons
26:30 that we're fighting.
26:32 We got to get to the point
26:33 where we start getting real serious
26:34 and real thorough about this battle.
26:36 And another thing I was gonna say in closing,
26:37 I believe that we try to put labels
26:39 in different tiers of sin in the church, right?
26:42 And so I'm looking at,
26:43 for sisters having sex constantly with her boyfriend,
26:46 and she knows it's wrong.
26:47 In God's eyes, that's just as equal to somebody
26:49 that's battling or dealing with homosexuality.
26:51 Exactly. Okay, real quick, someone else?
26:53 I think the Word of God is clear.
26:55 And we have to highlight things in our hearts like David said,
26:58 that we might not sin against God.
27:00 And just fortifying our minds with the word
27:03 and having that be our standard, our middle,
27:08 you know, not swing to the left or to the right.
27:10 And also just, you know, where the Bible declares
27:13 that we are more than conquerors.
27:14 Yeah. More than.
27:16 So exactly, I mean, I love history and I love to,
27:19 you know, Charlemagne and King Henry, and the faith,
27:22 and Louise XIII, and all these but they are conquerors
27:27 but at one point, they got conquered.
27:28 So Christ says that we're more than conquerors.
27:30 We're gonna live a life of continual victory...
27:32 Amen.
27:33 And as well as Jude 24,
27:35 that He's able to keep us from falling so.
27:36 Amen, amen. Well, that's where we're ending.
27:37 And the Bible says, my brothers,
27:39 if one of you should wander from the truth
27:40 and someone should bring him back, remember this,
27:43 whoever turns to sinner from the error of his way
27:46 will save him from death
27:47 and cover over a multitude of sin.
27:49 We have a duty to love and bring people,
27:51 protect them, bring them back to what God is calling them.
27:53 So God bless.


Revised 2017-06-05