Participants: Wayne Blakely (Host), Ron Woolsey
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000113A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices. 00:42 My name is Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministries. 00:44 And I'm here with Ron Woolsey, 00:46 my colleague in Coming Out Ministries as well. 00:49 Today, we are going to talk about something very important, 00:52 something that we keep hearing about all over the place today, 00:56 in churches, in schools, 00:58 in even outside of Christian society. 01:02 We hear the term "safe place". 01:06 I know that both you and I, Ron, 01:09 have even written about this topic 01:11 inside of a Christian environment 01:13 because we keep hearing from people, 01:17 "We need to create a safe place in the church, 01:19 we need to create a safe place on university campuses." 01:23 What exactly are we referring to 01:26 when we're talking about this? 01:28 Well, first of all, Wayne, 01:30 we're living in the day and age, a society today 01:33 that is so focused upon political correctness. 01:37 And, you know, with homosexuality and, 01:40 well, the whole LGBT issue being tolerated, 01:45 accepted, promoted, celebrated, and legislated now 01:50 as a civil right with minority status. 01:55 There is a great fear of charges of discrimination, 02:01 I think, within not only schools but within churches. 02:07 There's just a great fear, a paranoia, 02:09 about being charged with discrimination. 02:14 There can be legal ramifications for that, 02:17 not just being accused of it, 02:19 but there can be legal ramifications. 02:21 And so creating safe places, I think is one approach 02:26 that is being used to avoid confrontational situations 02:30 in today's political climate. 02:33 In Christianity, it seems like we're dancing around this 02:38 without dealing with the issue. 02:41 And, you know, it saddens me to see this 02:45 because when I was growing up, 02:48 I know that really the safe place for me was 02:51 I didn't want to be bullied. 02:53 I hear other people today that are in 02:56 what they call ministry and creating these safe places, 03:01 they want the bullying to stop, 03:03 but they seem to want the prevalence of the behavior 03:05 that they're promoting the idea that if you are gay 03:09 and you're practicing gay that that's perfectly fine. 03:12 But in a Christian organization, 03:14 a church or a school, you know, 03:17 God calls us to come apart from the world. 03:19 And if we come to the Word of God, 03:21 we shouldn't be trying to reinterpret the Word of God 03:24 or develop a hermeneutic that says 03:27 that God accepts gay behavior. 03:31 So why would we be creating something 03:35 on a university campus or a school campus today 03:40 like a straight-gay alliance for the LGBT community? 03:44 Well, the gay community 03:48 with the support of pro gay straight friends 03:52 have formed these alliances on our Christian campuses 03:55 for several reasons I listed here. 03:58 One is for camaraderie. 04:00 You know, there's... 04:02 You know, when we were growing up 04:04 and you realized you were gay, 04:06 you felt isolated, I'm sure, all alone. 04:09 I felt that way. 04:11 I didn't know another gay person in the world. 04:13 And the first time I found myself in the company 04:16 of other gay people that sense of camaraderie 04:20 and acceptance was just overwhelming 04:23 because didn't we both grow up feeling rejected, unaccepted? 04:27 And we just had this void in our lives 04:29 where we really longed for acceptance. 04:32 And so with these alliances, there is this camaraderie. 04:36 But secondly, these alliances also are being used 04:41 for the support of the gay agenda, 04:45 of advancing the cause of normalizing homosexuality, 04:49 LGBT behavior within society today. 04:54 And number three, 04:56 these alliances are working hand-in-hand 04:58 to prevent discussion from a difference of opinion 05:04 on these issues, whether it's ideologically, 05:07 philosophically, or even biblically. 05:10 Now having been gay myself, 05:13 I grew up with this perception of rejection. 05:16 And this is something Wayne 05:19 that I've observed in most gay people I know 05:23 that we have this hypersensitivity 05:27 or perception of rejection and hypersensitivity to that. 05:33 And so it seems like today 05:36 that a difference of opinion is considered rejection. 05:40 Rejection's not nice. 05:42 In fact, why don't we call it "hate"? 05:46 So therefore, we have to be protected from hate speech 05:50 which leads to a discrimination and which leads to hate crimes. 05:54 And so this is all a part of the agenda that I see going on. 05:59 So our Christian schools are unwittingly being used 06:04 by these alliances to become safe havens 06:08 for really the gay agenda 06:11 because they don't want to rock the boat 06:12 in this politically-oriented age 06:17 in which we're living right now. 06:20 When I consider this, it seems to me that the real protection, 06:24 the real alliance would be that 06:27 if we would come together and form an organization 06:30 where it was safe for somebody to express 06:32 that they had these temptations, 06:34 but that the person or the heterosexual 06:37 or the person in the leadership position 06:39 who is offering help would be able to say, you know, 06:42 "We all suffer from all kinds of different temptations 06:46 and due to genetics or due to sin 06:50 or our fallen nature or however we arrived, 06:53 we are at a disadvantage." 06:55 We were just, you know, talking in another program 06:57 about the handicap of maybe being gay. 07:01 And what needs to happen is the sensitivity 07:04 instead of the sensitivity being so much within ourselves. 07:07 The sensitivity needs to be in the person 07:09 that's helping to guide us 07:12 to come along with the biblical principle 07:14 that says that I will pray with you, 07:16 I will study with you, I'll reinforce, you know, 07:20 right behaviors with you and helping you walk with God 07:26 and helping you know and understand 07:28 that He knows your pain and your hurt and your sorrow. 07:31 And to me, that would be the alliance. 07:34 Today, we talk about alliances being in place 07:38 like you just mentioned, and they are... 07:42 It's like when minorities begin to develop, 07:44 another person comes into a minority, 07:46 they begin to feel the strength 07:48 of the other person that's in the minority, 07:50 and then they begin to advocate for things 07:53 that are in this situation are not always 07:56 in a biblical principle or biblical behavior, 07:59 but they're advocating for Satan's counterfeit, 08:02 another behavior, a sinful behavior. 08:05 Let me just insert here also that truth can bear scrutiny. 08:09 Truth is something that is factual. 08:12 And so we don't need a safe place from hearing 08:16 a difference of opinion 08:18 because that difference of opinion could be truth. 08:22 And so if we are creating safe places 08:24 where a difference of opinion cannot even be expressed, 08:27 especially in our institutions which are supposed to be places 08:31 where ideas can be batted about and discussed 08:37 and truth can be can be discovered and settled upon. 08:42 So I think there's a real danger here 08:44 in limiting 08:48 our intellectual growth 08:51 when we create these places 08:53 where we're protecting 08:54 ourselves from other information. 08:57 Right. 08:58 God advises us to come together and reason together, 09:01 but we should always reason with what God's truth is, 09:05 the love and truth message. 09:07 He wants to be in the mix. Exactly, yeah, yeah. 09:09 He brings about the change. 09:11 He brings about the affirmation and the confirmation 09:14 of who we are in Jesus Christ. 09:15 Right. 09:17 So is the intend in having these safe places for gays is, 09:22 is it an attempt to help them accept salvation? 09:25 Or is this a safe place that is to accept, 09:31 as we're talking about here, 09:32 the behavior that is associated with being gay? 09:35 I truly believe from my observation 09:37 that this attempt is to remove 09:42 homosexuality, the LGBT, 09:44 and all of these other issues from the category of sin, 09:50 and to move these behaviors 09:53 into a category of an accepted alternative lifestyle 09:57 to normalize the behavior. 09:59 And through the media, through the field of education, 10:02 and through legislation, 10:04 every attempt is being made to normalize this behavior 10:08 which for millennia has been considered to be abnormal, 10:13 not in harmony with nature or with the Word of God. 10:19 And, Wayne, this is now going on from kindergarten up. 10:22 I have been reading material that is absolutely shocking 10:27 where with some of the programs that are now being mandated 10:32 in our schools are actually teaching methodology. 10:36 I actually saw pictures of a teacher demonstrating, 10:41 up on a table demonstrating, perverted behavior 10:45 to her students showing them how to conduct this behavior. 10:49 We are living in a very fearful and perilous time. 10:53 Yeah. Most definitely. 10:54 I'm shocked at what is being promoted in the world today, 11:01 and it seems like that religious environments 11:04 are taking a lead from the world in a lot of situations 11:09 because of the conversation beginning to surface. 11:13 I was just on a flight coming back from Sydney, 11:16 and I was reading the paper 11:18 that was given to us on the plane. 11:21 And, you know, right there on the like 11:24 the second page was this article about the introduction 11:28 which start within a week or two of the theories 11:31 of someone had developed this theory for kindergarteners, 11:34 and that they would give them opportunity 11:37 to cross-dress in the classroom 11:40 that they would begin to demonstrate sexual behaviors 11:44 that they needed to become familiar with their anatomy 11:47 and realize that their anatomy is pleasurable. 11:50 And this is outside of the permission 11:52 or the guidance of parents. 11:57 You know that... 11:58 Wayne, wouldn't you agree that children this age 12:02 who normally are not even thinking sexually, 12:05 for them to be introduced to this, 12:08 is that not a form of molestation? 12:10 I would say that... 12:11 Are these children not being mentally, and emotionally, 12:14 sexually molested by being introduced to something 12:17 that they're not even old enough to process? 12:20 They're not physically, emotionally, mentally, 12:22 or spiritually mature enough to even handle. 12:24 Yeah, it was interesting. 12:25 In the article, 12:27 the very thing that I was thinking that was taking place, 12:30 a violence, an intrusion upon someone's sexual organs 12:36 and familiarity that shouldn't happen at that age. 12:41 It was saying that this would help reduce 12:44 the sexual violence within the society. 12:46 And I thought it's farfetched. 12:48 How could you possibly come to that conclusion? 12:50 And I certainly know what that did to me at the age of four. 12:53 It totally derailed me. 12:54 Right, right. Yes. Yeah. 12:57 You know, even in the light of the current social climates 13:01 and how the church should be a safe place, 13:05 shouldn't it be a safe place for anybody? 13:08 I mean, what are we saying by creating these safe places? 13:12 And what is the church's role and responsibility 13:16 in someone coming in and acknowledging 13:20 their temptations versus sinful behavior? 13:23 Well, you know, I think that if we single out 13:27 this one behavior to make it a safe place for LGBT, 13:31 why just that behavior? 13:34 Why not for adulterers? 13:36 Why not pedophiles? 13:37 Why not for thieves and robbers? 13:39 Why not for hate-mongers? 13:40 Why shouldn't we create a safe place for everybody? 13:44 Does that... 13:46 When we apply it across the board like that, 13:47 doesn't it indicate that there's something 13:49 a little bit wrong with our reasoning? 13:51 But absolutely, our churches should be safe places, however. 13:55 And the text you just referred to earlier, 13:58 one of my very favorite, Isaiah 1:18, 14:00 "Come now," God says, 14:02 "and let us, us, reason together." 14:05 God wants us to reason with Him. 14:08 I like to say that He wants to be in on the discussion. 14:12 And it might be nice if once in a while, 14:15 we as Christians, will let Him have the final word, 14:18 you know, as we're reasoning with Him. 14:20 And so... 14:22 I like to reason about this point 14:24 that if our institutions, 14:27 institutions can be our homes, our churches, 14:29 our schools, universities, colleges, 14:31 if they are to be safe places, first of all, 14:34 safe places from what? 14:37 If it's a safe place, that seems to indicate 14:40 that there's a danger out there. 14:42 And so if we're creating a safe place 14:44 from what are we creating this safety? 14:49 And if we look biblically, 14:52 Matthew 1:21, 14:54 Jesus came to save His people from their sins. 14:57 So we could like in sin to the enemy. 15:00 And Jesus wants to save us from our sins, 15:04 so we need a safe place from everything 15:07 that would lead us into sin 15:08 because the wages of sin is death. 15:11 It's a dangerous area to go into. 15:14 And so I really believe that we need to create safe places 15:19 from the enemy, not for the enemy 15:23 but from the enemy. 15:25 So first of all, safe places from 15:30 and then maybe we need to look at then safe places 15:33 for whom, from what and for whom. 15:36 Aren't we in grave danger 15:38 when we begin to put our knowledge 15:41 on the basis of an equation to God's knowledge? 15:44 I'm starting to see some things like this 15:46 that aren't biblically founded. 15:48 Recently, a chaplain in a Christian college 15:54 delivered a sermon. 15:56 And in this sermon, he says to these young students 16:00 that he believes that David and Jonathan 16:03 had likely more than a passing kiss with each other. 16:07 And I thought, "Whoa! This is really pushing 16:09 the envelope here for something 16:10 that's not grounded in God's Word," 16:12 that we begin to put something in somebody's mind 16:15 to consider that's not biblically grounded. 16:19 We're in a real danger zone 16:22 by providing this kind of education 16:25 that can't be based on God's Word. 16:27 It's all assumption. 16:29 And we're not to present anything we have to suppose. 16:32 It should be grounded in the Word of God. 16:34 Yeah, we should be able to know 16:36 that we can come back to God's Word, 16:38 and that God has the solutions for our sin problems. 16:45 I agree that our schools and universities 16:48 should always be safe places, 16:50 but from a biblical perspective, 16:52 what would you say should be the focus 16:56 in making them these safe places? 16:59 Well, rather than making 17:00 our schools and institutions safe havens 17:04 for a perversion of something God has created, 17:07 in a sense, making it a safe place 17:09 for the enemy to work. 17:11 Here again, I'm a parent. 17:13 I now have two children in college. 17:16 And we're talking about very expensive education 17:20 to have them in Christian universities 17:24 where they are. 17:25 So as a parent, well, my wife and I both, 17:28 we really want these institutions to be safe places 17:32 for our children for them to be trained 17:35 in the things of God. 17:38 We're not spending that kind of money 17:40 for them to be led away from God, 17:42 we want them to be led to God. 17:45 And so I made a list of a number of things 17:48 that I feel our institutions should be safe places for, 17:53 not just for our children 17:54 but also for the expressed will of God. 17:59 You know, we both have found it difficult 18:01 to get on some Christian campuses 18:04 to share the Word of God 18:07 because it's even being looked upon as hate speech. 18:10 We've actually heard the words of Jesus 18:13 being referred to as hate speech. 18:16 A Christian institution should be a safe place, 18:19 don't you think, for the word of God 18:22 to be shared and to be preached? 18:24 And we know that the Word of God 18:25 is for reproof, correction, and instruction. 18:27 So it doesn't matter that it contradicts our feelings 18:31 and thoughts and emotions. 18:33 That's what it's for in the first place. 18:36 And thirdly, our institutions, including our homes, 18:41 should be safe places for the Holy Spirit. 18:44 You know, the Apostle Paul warned us in Ephesians 4:30, 18:48 "To grieve not the Spirit of God." 18:50 So evidently, the Holy Spirit can be grieved away. 18:55 And really, shouldn't we focus on making our places 19:00 a welcome place for the Holy Spirit to work in? 19:03 I like an observation that Ellen White made 19:07 when she was in Australia on one of the Christian campuses. 19:11 She said, "We need to realize that the Holy Spirit 19:14 who is as much a person as God 19:16 is a person is walking these grounds." 19:20 Can you picture that on one of our Christian universities? 19:23 The Holy Spirit walking these grounds, and yet, 19:26 He can be grieved away. 19:28 I really think 19:30 that our institution should be safe for the Holy Spirit. 19:34 And what about for the angels? 19:35 Places where the angels would like to dwell. 19:39 Another thing is a lot of times, 19:41 we're seeing the standards, our Christian standards, 19:44 being lowered and not being up held. 19:47 And our institutions should be safe places for our standards 19:52 as we understand them from the Bible, 19:55 for what we also call present truth. 19:59 In Amos 3:7, we're told to prepare to meet thy God. 20:04 And that's why we as parents 20:07 are sending our children to these universities. 20:09 We're wanting them to prepare to meet God 20:12 and to prepare to prepare others to meet God. 20:17 And to me, that's kind of present truth. 20:20 And a couple more things, like our churches, for example, 20:24 our visitors need to find them to be safe places. 20:27 When I was visiting, 20:29 trying to come back to the Lord, 20:31 and I would visit some churches. 20:33 It doesn't matter which ones, whatever. 20:36 But I would visit some churches that are Christian, 20:39 and I would be driven away 20:41 because the messages I found offensive, not offensive to me 20:45 because I was trying to hang on to my sin 20:48 but offensive because it contradicted my intelligence 20:52 with the knowledge that I did have in the Word of God, 20:55 I expected to be reproved and corrected and instructed 20:58 and not to just be, 21:01 what is the word, palliated 21:02 or to have the issues glossed over. 21:05 And then we also have new members 21:07 that come into our churches. 21:09 And they're like babes in the Christ, 21:12 and they need to be nurtured. 21:14 So we need safe places for people who are sin sick, 21:19 that are looking for strong truths to hang on to. 21:24 And so these are some of the concerns that I have 21:27 about what our churches, our homes, 21:29 our schools should provide as safe places. 21:33 Yes. 21:34 I remember when I was in school 21:37 how if we detoured, especially in Christian education, 21:41 if we detoured in things that we didn't understand, 21:43 we're starting to give a slant for something 21:46 that was off of what the true meaning of God's Word was, 21:49 we would be counseled. 21:51 It seems today that that doesn't take place. 21:53 And that in like the straight-gay alliances, 21:57 you know, we know 21:58 that from a particular straight-gay alliance 22:00 that you had a list of things that we should not say 22:04 that was being promoted by this individual 22:06 saying that we shouldn't say things like, 22:09 and you had a list. 22:11 Yes. 22:12 And we're going to be talking about that in another program, 22:15 but just to give an idea 22:18 to communicate with the gay community, 22:20 Christians should not say, "Go and sin no more." 22:23 Well, that's Jesus' words. Right. 22:25 We should not say, "The Bible clearly says." 22:28 Yeah. 22:29 If we're Christians, why can we not say the Bible clearly says? 22:33 And homosexuality is sin. 22:34 We're not to say those types of things. 22:37 And so that's one reason that I came up with this concern 22:44 that our institutions are 22:46 in danger of not being safe places 22:48 where the very Word of God itself 22:51 because of this. 22:52 And this comes out of a straight-gay alliance, 22:54 by the way, or a gay-straight alliance 22:56 where they are trying to get... 22:58 They're trying to protect the gay students 23:02 from the Word of God. 23:04 That alarms me as a parent, it alarms me as a Christian, 23:08 it terribly alarms me as a pastor 23:10 that this would be happening on Christian campuses. 23:13 Yeah. Yeah. 23:15 I want to encourage, and I know that you want to encourage 23:17 our viewing audience about a safe place, you know, 23:21 what truly is a safe place today? 23:25 Well, we have, from God's Word, in His perspective, 23:31 we find that true safety is found in His promises 23:34 to those who accept Him as a Lord and Master. 23:38 There are several texts of scripture 23:40 that I found very encouraging about this very subject. 23:45 You know, He does not want us to wander 23:47 along the broad way that leads to destruction. 23:51 So through His word, He's trying to lead us into 23:55 and along the narrow way which leads unto life. 23:58 And so through His word, we can find a safe guide. 24:01 But here are several texts of scripture 24:05 that tell us what safety, true safety, is. 24:09 Proverbs 29:25 says, "Who so putteth his trust 24:13 in the Lord shall be safe." 24:16 So we need to make sure our institutions 24:19 are creating an atmosphere 24:21 where our students learn to trust 24:24 in the Lord in every aspect of their life. 24:27 And I like Psalm 119:117. 24:31 The Psalm says, "Hold thou me up, 24:34 and I shall be safe. 24:35 And I will have respect unto thy statutes continually." 24:40 And that is telling us that there is safety in following 24:45 the commandments, the judgment, statutes, 24:47 the council of the Lord. 24:49 If we really want to be safe, our safety is in obedience. 24:54 And then one more, Leviticus 25:18. 24:58 "Wherefore ye shall do my statutes 25:01 and keep my judgments and do them, 25:03 and ye shall dwell in the land in safety." 25:06 This goes back to the point that God is our Father. 25:11 And every father should have house rules, rules of safety, 25:17 rules of conduct, 25:19 you know, within the home, 25:22 standards for the children to be raised in. 25:25 And our loving Heavenly Father 25:27 is basically saying, 25:29 if you will follow the guidelines 25:30 that I have set up for you as My children, 25:34 in My house, in My home, 25:37 in your institutions or whatever, 25:40 if you will keep My commandments, 25:41 if you will do these things, 25:44 then you shall dwell in the land of safety. 25:48 And I just find that so encouraging and comforting 25:52 that our safety is truly in the Lord. 25:55 If we want safe places, let's follow Him implicitly. 26:00 Yeah. 26:01 You know, the world is calling us today 26:04 to adapt to society, 26:07 and I find that, as a Christian, 26:11 and watching inside of many denominations, 26:14 I see people beginning to cave to the gay agenda, 26:18 to cave in to other agendas of the world, 26:20 but to maintain like a God association 26:24 rather than a faith and belief and trust in God. 26:27 And God is asking us to become a peculiar people. 26:31 And becoming a peculiar person in Jesus Christ, 26:35 that says that my faith and my trust should be in Him, 26:38 that I should develop my identity in Jesus Christ. 26:41 I mean, these are things that we've been talking about 26:44 for quite some time now. 26:47 So I just want to share with our viewers 26:51 that our identity in Jesus Christ, 26:53 as you were saying, is the safe place. 26:55 He is always our refuge. 26:57 And in John 14, He tells us to remain in Him. 27:02 I haven't counted how many times in that chapter, 27:06 the word "remain in Me" is said. 27:11 It's reminding us over and over again, 27:14 how to trust in Him, that He'll protect us, 27:18 He'll watch over us even in great adversity, 27:20 that our safety is in Him. 27:23 I want to encourage viewers too 27:26 who are interested in this topic, 27:29 you can go to Comingoutministries.org. 27:33 I hope that you will appreciate this series, 27:36 the Pure Choices series. 27:38 And we invite you to come back again 27:41 and see the other topics that we have to share. 27:45 So it's been a blessing to be able to share today. 27:49 Thank you, Ron, for sharing about a safe place. 27:51 And we just pray and ask the very best for you 27:54 and ask that you will come back and view Pure Choices. |
Revised 2018-07-30