Participants: Michael Carducci (Host), Walt Heyer
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000115A
00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material
00:05 may be too candid for younger children.
00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices.
00:41 My name is Michael Carducci, and I'm Coming Out Ministries.
00:44 And today, we're going to be interviewing Walt Heyer.
00:47 Welcome, Walt. Yeah, thanks for having me on.
00:51 I'm really excited about the fact that you're here
00:53 and that we get to have this dialogue.
00:55 I remember hearing about you and reading your articles
00:59 before I actually spoke with you one time
01:01 when we did a telephone interview
01:03 with Raymond King.
01:05 And from that moment on,
01:06 you have given me so many insights
01:08 that have helped me even understand
01:10 some of my own journey,
01:12 not to mention the fact that now transgenderism
01:14 is at such a height with the Caitlyn Jenner issue
01:18 and the story.
01:20 So really, we just have so much that we want to unpack today.
01:22 Thank you for coming. Sure.
01:24 Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Great, great.
01:25 So well, let's get right to it.
01:27 Let's start, if you would,
01:28 just by giving me some of the history
01:30 of what you came from,
01:32 like how this all began for you.
01:33 Yeah, you know, it's interesting, today,
01:35 there are so many stories about kids being transgender.
01:40 And I was a transgender kid at the age of four.
01:44 And my grandmother was babysitting me,
01:47 and for whatever reason,
01:48 I don't know if I encouraged her
01:50 or if it was her thing, at four years old, who knows?
01:54 But the fact is she seemed to enjoy cross-dressing me,
01:57 I enjoyed her cross-dressing me.
02:00 So we had this mutual thing, but it was a secret.
02:03 Nobody was supposed to know, it was just my grandma and I.
02:06 And so, over a period of time,
02:08 she eventually made me a purple chiffon evening dress.
02:12 And she had me standing on a cushion
02:14 and she pinned up the hem and all that.
02:17 It was just a lot of fussing over a boy,
02:20 and dressing this boy up, who was me, as a little girl,
02:24 and that planted a seed.
02:28 And you really have no idea, when you're so young,
02:32 what seed's being planted.
02:34 And that seed, when it's nurtured,
02:36 like my grandmother did, and it was obvious to me
02:39 that she really liked me more as a girl.
02:42 And she never fond over me as a boy but just as a girl.
02:47 So that gave me the idea
02:50 that I was better off as a girl.
02:52 I would be loved more as a girl,
02:54 I would be appreciated more as a girl,
02:56 and you always want that.
02:58 I mean that's one of the things that we want.
03:00 We want people to like us, love us,
03:01 we want people to fond over us.
03:04 And so here's a grandmother,
03:05 but she's only doing it
03:07 when I'm dressed in girls' clothes.
03:09 Right. About how old were you at this time?
03:11 Well, that was from the age of four
03:13 to about the age of six or seven.
03:16 And then I ended up,
03:19 'cause I wanted to continue doing this,
03:21 not just at grandma's house,
03:22 I wanted to do it at home when I could.
03:24 So I put the dress in a brown paper bag
03:27 and snuck it home when my dad was taking me home
03:30 and put it in my dresser drawer,
03:32 but my mother found it.
03:33 And then that was a problem.
03:36 And so all of a sudden there was this explosion
03:39 about what are you doing with the dress?
03:41 How did you get this?
03:42 And then I was unable to go to grandma's house anymore,
03:45 the dress disappeared.
03:47 And my dad, you know,
03:49 because he was kind of a very macho guy,
03:51 a police officer and so forth,
03:54 really, really sort of floored him
03:57 that grandma was doing this.
03:59 And so that started a fight between my mom and my dad,
04:03 you know, the conflict, you know, why did you have...
04:05 Your mother's doing this stuff, we didn't know about it.
04:09 And so then I felt like it was my fault.
04:11 I mean, here I am, six or seven years old,
04:13 and I'm thinking what did I do
04:15 when, in fact, I really hadn't done anything.
04:18 And so that just started this long journey about my identity
04:24 and who I was and the conflict
04:26 that went along with me being this...
04:29 I don't think I had the term in those days as transgender.
04:33 I mean, this was quite a long time ago.
04:36 This was in the '40s.
04:37 I don't know if I was the very first transkid or not,
04:40 but that's what was going on in those days for me.
04:44 Right, so I really identify in so many areas of your story.
04:48 My father was also very macho,
04:50 and I would get spanked
04:52 if I got caught playing with dolls
04:54 or dressing up in my sister's clothes.
04:56 But I remember I had an aunt that one day took me
04:58 and she actually styled my hair
05:00 to look like a girl's and she teased it.
05:02 And I remember like this thrill that came over me,
05:05 not to mention the fact
05:06 that she was affirming me in femininity,
05:09 but then also, you know,
05:10 that it felt like I was free or liberated
05:12 to actually experience that,
05:14 which I think became a stronghold,
05:16 you know, for me at that time as well,
05:18 rejected my father's masculinity,
05:20 it was just unapproachable and unappealing,
05:23 and I reverted back to my mother.
05:25 So again, this affirmation,
05:26 I had a very strong macho father,
05:29 you know, and that to me I could relate to,
05:31 but I could relate to the feminine side.
05:33 So while there was some more extenuating circumstances
05:36 that happened that also helped to drive this transgender.
05:40 Yeah, yeah, once that seed was planted
05:44 and dad's doing the heavy discipline
05:46 and he's obviously very concerned about me
05:48 and upset that this was going on in my life
05:51 and his adopted brother,
05:53 who was a teenager at the time,
05:56 thought it would be appropriate for him
05:58 to tease me and taunt me and sexually molest me,
06:02 and he did this for a couple of years.
06:04 He would take me in his car up in the mountains
06:07 and do that sort of thing, and so...
06:09 This was your uncle. This was my uncle.
06:11 And so that became, you know,
06:13 another part of this painful journey
06:16 that really only started
06:17 because my grandmother crossed-dressed me.
06:20 I mean, that was the start of all of this.
06:24 Dad wouldn't have been doing the discipline,
06:25 the uncle wouldn't have been doing the molestations,
06:28 had it not been
06:29 for my grandmother cross-dressing me
06:31 and doing this over a period of a couple years.
06:34 So we can see all of the things going on,
06:38 really, the origin comes
06:40 from that very moment of cross-dressing.
06:42 Now I realize that actually the...
06:45 In my life, the event of cross-dressing
06:48 begins the abuse.
06:50 So I'd like to kind of point out
06:52 that now we live in a world
06:53 where, you know, cross-dressing seems to be the norm.
06:56 We have school systems in Europe
06:58 that are actually saying
06:59 that kids need to experience that
07:01 so that they can experience
07:03 what their gender identity is.
07:04 Is it no...
07:06 There's no wonder now to me
07:08 why God says that it's not proper for men
07:10 to wear the opposite sex clothing
07:12 and for women to wear men's clothing
07:14 because what that does is...
07:16 what it did for us
07:17 is it affirmed this identity detachment
07:20 and what it did is it encouraged it
07:21 and helped it to grow.
07:23 So that, to me, helps to explain that, verse wise,
07:26 what's the big deal
07:27 if a guy puts on a dress or if he,
07:29 you know, wears his hair like a girl
07:31 because what that did is that affirmed to us
07:34 this deep attachment to the opposite sex
07:36 and the dissatisfaction of our own sex.
07:39 Right. And we see this so much now.
07:42 And we can see that not only are the children,
07:45 if there's a boy, changing to be a girl,
07:48 he gets much more affirmation and much more attention
07:51 and much more protection, you know, from the teachers
07:55 and the family and all that because he is transgender.
07:58 But what I've kind of come to the conclusion
08:01 is that we've taken
08:02 what is really nothing more than a behavior
08:05 'cause dressing is just a behavioral action
08:08 and tried to turn it into an identity of self.
08:13 And this is where the trouble starts.
08:15 It's interesting because the more I was exposed
08:18 to masculinity, the more frightening it was,
08:20 which actually drove up for me the gender confusion.
08:24 So what I want to also point out is the fact
08:27 that you never struggled with homosexual attraction, right?
08:31 That was nothing that was an issue for you,
08:34 whereas it was for me.
08:35 Because I think in my situation,
08:38 you know, I was kind of repulsed by what my uncle did,
08:42 and so it wasn't anything
08:43 I ever wanted anything to do with.
08:46 So instead of driving me to it, that drove me away from it.
08:49 But still my identity,
08:51 at that point, was still so fragile,
08:54 it became broken.
08:55 Interesting, so one thing that
08:57 I'd like to point out is the fact that,
08:59 you know, there's no formula for why somebody is homosexual
09:03 or heterosexual as far as that goes.
09:05 What I find amazing is that
09:06 even with all of the physical
09:08 and sexual abuse that you experienced,
09:10 that your identity was able to survive through that,
09:15 you know, heterosexual attraction,
09:16 whereas other people,
09:18 like myself, and even though I wasn't molested,
09:20 there were issues that created
09:23 the same sex attraction as well.
09:25 So again, I'd like to point out
09:26 that people are always trying to find
09:28 what's the formula for why someone is gay or not,
09:31 and there's a very high statistic of men
09:33 that are transgendered that are not homosexual.
09:35 You know, that's right.
09:37 A lot of them just have an identity issue
09:40 about their gender
09:42 and it doesn't involve homosexuality,
09:44 in fact, many of them, boys who become women,
09:48 identify more as being a lesbian
09:51 than they do heterosexual.
09:52 That's just what they do, which is interesting.
09:55 Right, okay, so on that vein,
09:57 you ended up marrying and having children.
10:00 Talk to us maybe about the struggle
10:03 that you're still having the transgendered feelings
10:06 but yet you have a family, a wife, a great career.
10:11 You know, I started going through school
10:14 and still struggling inside with these things.
10:16 I didn't want to talk to anybody about it.
10:19 So I kept them internalized, but they never went away.
10:22 I even secretly took on a different name, Krystal West,
10:26 when I was in my teens, you know, just to...
10:29 But I was cross-dressing in private.
10:32 So that was my little secret, my little world,
10:34 I didn't let anybody into it.
10:36 And so as I got into this and then later I found a girl,
10:41 we got married.
10:42 And we had two children, and I was still struggling,
10:46 I told her about it, and our conclusion was that
10:50 if I got married, it would go away.
10:52 You know, so I wanted her to know that I was struggling,
10:55 and I was convinced,
10:56 well, this is going to go away, well, it didn't.
10:58 I mean, even after the first child
11:00 and the second child,
11:01 and me working as an associate design engineer
11:06 on the Apollo space missions,
11:07 I had a very nice successful career
11:10 and eventually becoming an executive
11:11 for a large automobile company.
11:15 But I still struggled.
11:16 And then I was starting to use alcohol
11:19 as a way to cope with the struggling,
11:21 to try to suppress the feelings
11:23 because I was...
11:24 I had a family, I had children, I had responsibilities,
11:27 and to a certain degree,
11:29 I had this great integrity about
11:30 wanting to be the father, the husband,
11:34 to the kids and the family, and do a good job.
11:36 But I was sort of dying inside
11:39 because of what had started at grandma's house.
11:43 And then I was pouring alcohol on it
11:46 as a way to try to cope with it,
11:48 which turns out not to be the best way
11:50 to deal with a situation.
11:52 Right, okay, so now you ended up seeking counsel
11:55 and this therapist gave you some advice.
11:58 Take us now into that aspect if you would.
12:00 Yeah, struggling so much, I decided that I would go
12:02 to the most prominent therapist on this,
12:05 and it was Dr. Paul Walker
12:06 who actually wrote the WPATH Standards of Care
12:10 that we know today.
12:11 He was the original author of those standards.
12:14 So I thought here's a guy that really knows
12:16 how to diagnose
12:18 and provide guidance in what I should do.
12:20 And he diagnosed me right away with gender dysphoria
12:23 and suggested, within a very short period of time,
12:27 that I should undergo hormone therapy
12:29 and gender reassignment surgery.
12:31 But I did wait the two year time period,
12:34 and I went back to him after two years,
12:38 and I was still married during this time
12:40 and still working.
12:42 And so I went back to him
12:44 and I said, you know, "I'm still struggling.
12:45 We talked in 1981, now it's 1983,
12:49 and what should I do?"
12:51 He said, you know, "I think
12:52 you still have gender dysphoria,
12:54 and the only way to resolve
12:55 that is undergo gender reassignment surgery.
12:57 So I decided to get divorced and undergo the surgery.
13:03 And I did.
13:05 And I became Laura Jensen,
13:07 and my career as an automobile executive
13:11 quickly evaporated.
13:13 They ushered me out of the building
13:15 and said I couldn't work there anymore.
13:17 And so within very few months,
13:20 I was broke and living in a park
13:24 and starting to try to dig my way out of what had happened
13:29 that started with the dress at grandma's house.
13:32 Okay, so, well, really did they escort you out?
13:34 Was it really that blatant? Yeah.
13:37 Were you living as a woman now?
13:39 I wasn't at that time.
13:41 I announced that I was going to come to work as Laura,
13:44 and they weren't going to let that happen.
13:46 Wow, okay.
13:47 So now here you are,
13:48 you're homeless, living in a park.
13:50 Right. Okay.
13:51 And so you did end up having the surgery,
13:53 talk a little bit about that, did it satisfy that for you?
13:57 Did it help?
13:58 Well, there was this great euphoric feeling about,
14:01 you know, finally have arrived.
14:03 The next day, it's just like, "Wow, this is wonderful."
14:07 It was great.
14:09 And there's a period of time, I kind of liken it to the time
14:13 when you're in a bar drinking and you're having a good time,
14:16 but you're not really aware
14:17 of what's going on in your life,
14:19 you know, 'cause it's very euphoric,
14:21 it's very exciting,
14:22 you finally made it, especially in my case,
14:24 where I was 42 years old, so I'd struggled for 38 years.
14:30 But then you start dealing with reality.
14:34 And the reality is I don't have a job,
14:36 I no longer have a family, I no longer have any money,
14:40 and I'm laying in a park wondering,
14:43 "Okay, I'm a transgender female Laura Jensen,
14:47 now what do I do?"
14:49 So the battle back. Right.
14:51 So how extensive was your surgery, Walt?
14:53 I had everything done. Top and bottom.
14:56 Top, bottom, sides, everything.
14:59 I had chin implants, buttocks implants, nose,
15:03 they did the complete...
15:05 Okay, how expensive was that?
15:07 Oh, it was very expensive.
15:09 I tried not to calculate how much it was
15:11 because I knew that would be very painful,
15:13 but it was, you know,
15:15 well over $50,000 in those days,
15:17 it's been over 30 years ago.
15:20 If I may, I'd really like to go deep.
15:22 On that day, when you were having the first surgery,
15:25 what went through your mind of,
15:26 you know, I'm passing over to somewhere
15:29 where I've never been before or let's get this going,
15:32 I can't wait to be Laura Jensen,
15:34 was there any regrets at that time
15:36 when you were about to go under the knife?
15:38 No, you know, that's a great question.
15:40 And because I had been dealing with this for so long
15:43 and I had what I called kind of a radio playing in my head,
15:46 you know, that you're Laura, you're not a man, you're...
15:49 You know, that was just going on in my head.
15:51 So I thought this has got to be the only way I can cure this
15:54 and make it go away, turn the radio off,
15:56 turn off that whole thing that kept telling me
16:00 that I was a female in a male body.
16:04 So I was excited about it. Okay.
16:05 So I didn't have any regrets, I didn't have any concerns.
16:10 Obviously, you don't know how it's going to end up,
16:13 but, you know, you think this has got to be better
16:16 than what was going on.
16:17 All right, so I'm going to use your analogy.
16:19 Now, you know, the night is over, you're out of the bar,
16:23 now it's the next morning
16:24 and you're waking up with this hangover,
16:26 only the hangover is not going to go away,
16:28 you are now Laura.
16:29 And what was that like for you?
16:31 Well, I think, you know,
16:32 one of the things that needs to be clear
16:34 is that hangover, it takes, sometimes, months or years.
16:38 You know, so it's not instantaneous.
16:40 You've sort of...
16:41 You're really working hard to make it work.
16:44 You're really trying to live out this life
16:46 that you've dreamed about, that you've fantasized about,
16:48 that you've worked toward,
16:50 that you've done all these things
16:51 that people are telling you this is the answer.
16:54 So I was able to do that for eight years.
16:57 I lived as Laura Jensen for eight years
16:59 and I had a good employment after I finally got to work.
17:03 But there was a time
17:05 when I started studying psychology
17:07 'cause I wanted to become a therapist and help people,
17:11 and I was studying at UC Santa Cruz,
17:13 and I was looking at some of these books
17:15 and they started talking about transgenders
17:18 having what they called separation anxiety
17:20 and dissociative disorders, and I'm looking at this
17:22 and I'm going, "Whoa! Wait a minute."
17:24 And as I began to study this,
17:27 I realized that nobody's born that way.
17:29 That, you know, these are behaviors
17:32 that people get involved in
17:33 and begin to sort of fantasize about
17:36 and develop an identity
17:38 that's not actually who you are.
17:40 You think it's who you are
17:42 and you sort of develop something
17:45 out of all of the stuff
17:47 that's gone on in your life that you never dealt with.
17:51 So this is interesting,
17:52 well, 'cause I want to go back to the beginning again
17:55 because something you said
17:57 that really hit the nail on the head for me
17:58 is that gender dysphoria
18:00 is really symptomatic of a depression.
18:03 And the issue for me is I couldn't get my body
18:05 to match what was going on inside my mind,
18:09 give us some insight on that.
18:10 Yes, people don't realize when the grandmother,
18:14 in my case, started cross-dressing me,
18:16 there's a seed of depression that starts.
18:18 I mean, there's two things happening here.
18:22 Grandma's saying, "You're not really a boy,
18:25 you're a girl."
18:26 And so you become unaware at the time
18:29 that you're becoming depressed
18:31 about the fact that you weren't born correctly,
18:33 that's a depression.
18:34 Exactly. I mean, that's...
18:35 And that depression frankly never gets addressed,
18:40 it never gets treated,
18:41 changing genders does not change that depression.
18:44 Wouldn't it complicate it?
18:46 Oh, absolutely complicates it
18:48 because you're actually adding to the depression,
18:51 you're trying to, you know,
18:53 live through this in this gender
18:55 that you've created out of surgery,
18:57 and makeup, and clothing, which is nothing more
19:00 than you're acting out of the depression
19:04 and not acting out of reality.
19:06 Yeah, you know, if for no one else,
19:08 this program is for me.
19:09 So while, you know, I gained so much insight just by,
19:12 you know, listening to you
19:14 because I finally identify with some of that, for me,
19:17 and I'm hoping that people that are watching this program
19:19 that are struggling also with transgenderism
19:22 or gender dysphoria
19:24 that they're going to gain insights as well.
19:25 But what I really want to talk about now
19:27 is how Jesus came into your life
19:30 and the incredible changes that it made?
19:32 So if you can, let's address that part
19:35 'cause that's the best part.
19:36 Yeah, it is.
19:37 You know, and once I finally started working a program,
19:41 a recovery, and not drinking,
19:43 and during that time at the recovery house,
19:45 there was a church close by,
19:47 and after going to several churches
19:49 and them not really being too open
19:51 to transgenders in the church,
19:53 I found this one church and I went to the pastor
19:56 and he said, I asked him,
19:58 "Are you going to try to change me?"
20:00 You know, basically,
20:01 "Are you going to try to change me back to a boy?"
20:03 Right. So here you are, Laura, right?
20:05 I'm Laura, and I was sitting before him
20:07 and he kind of rolled back in his chair
20:09 and he says, "No, my job's to love you,
20:11 it's God's job to change you."
20:12 And I think that moment for me was so powerful
20:16 because it sort of planted another seed in me
20:18 about the fact that this was between God and I
20:22 and His love that could recreate my life in the way
20:26 that He had intended it to be.
20:28 So I began to pray and work through these issues.
20:32 And I did start going to see a psychologist
20:34 and dealing with that and found out that,
20:36 you know, going through this gender change
20:39 is actually a dissociation.
20:41 I mean, it's not a very complicated thing,
20:44 you're dissociating from who you really are
20:45 to become someone who you're not.
20:47 And you're trying to make
20:48 that who you're not real when, in fact, it's not.
20:52 And so once you begin to understand
20:55 that you're living out this delusional idea
20:59 of who you are and that it is not real
21:01 because it's categorically impossible, biologically,
21:04 to change a man into a woman.
21:06 You can't do that. All right.
21:07 So what I really want to know,
21:09 I want to know from your perspective,
21:11 like I recognize that this wasn't who I was,
21:14 how was that?
21:16 Make it personal for me
21:17 because I really want to get inside your head.
21:18 I think once I realized that I was living out something
21:23 that wasn't real, I just had...
21:25 I knew that the Lord was there, I knew that He wanted me to be
21:29 the man that I was supposed to be,
21:31 and I began working diligently to that end,
21:35 and it was very hard to disconnect
21:37 from all that had gone on.
21:38 It wasn't quick and easy.
21:40 So... Wow.
21:42 So, well, now this is getting even more complicated.
21:45 So now here's a man
21:47 that transitioned out of his masculinity
21:50 into this artificial femininity,
21:52 and now you've got to make this whole switch again.
21:56 And so you've got to push through that.
21:58 Yeah. You had to push through that.
22:02 And so what was really the most amazing thing
22:05 was I began to pray a lot.
22:07 I was not a person who prayed much.
22:09 And so I began praying a lot, and I was praying with a guy
22:14 who I had worked on my program recovery with,
22:17 he's a psychologist, and we were praying
22:19 kind of just like we are here in a little setting.
22:22 And he started praying, and all of a sudden,
22:26 during this prayer, I don't remember what he said,
22:29 you know, but he was praying and I was praying.
22:32 And I looked up
22:33 and I could actually see the Lord coming to me,
22:37 He was in a white robe, I could see His face,
22:40 I couldn't see His feet,
22:41 and He was coming down toward me
22:43 with His hands like this.
22:45 And He was reaching out to me, and at that moment,
22:48 I saw myself as a little baby wrapped in cloth.
22:51 And He picked me up and held me in His arms,
22:54 and the words He spoke were,
22:56 "You'll now be safe with Me forever."
22:59 And then He went away.
23:02 And I realized at that very moment
23:04 my life had been transformed,
23:06 I had been redeemed and restored to the gender
23:10 that God had made me to be,
23:12 and then I never looked back since that time.
23:14 Wow, that's amazing.
23:18 I love how God is such a personal intimate God
23:20 that He even revealed Himself to you in an intimate way,
23:24 and that in itself was healing.
23:26 So now, Walt, you're now healed and redeemed,
23:29 but you still have this mutilation to your body,
23:32 talk about that transition in just a minute or two.
23:35 Yeah, well, there's only a few things
23:37 you can do to bring things back to normal.
23:40 So you stop taking hormones, you re-identify who you are,
23:44 you take out some of the implants,
23:46 but there are some surgeries that you can't...
23:48 you just can't repair.
23:50 And that's kind of the unfortunate thing.
23:52 But it's not that bad because one of the things that I love
23:56 is that Jesus says when it comes to take us home that
23:59 that we're changed in the twinkling of an eye.
24:01 And so there are many things, Walt, not just,
24:03 you know, people that have attempted,
24:05 you know, gender identity changes,
24:07 but, you know, people that are covered in tattoos or piercings
24:10 or whatever that is,
24:11 you know, no matter what we've done to our bodies here,
24:13 what's so wonderful is that when Jesus comes
24:15 that all of this
24:17 is all changed in the twinkling of an eye
24:18 and He restores us back to what we were intended to be.
24:21 Absolutely. Isn't that powerful?
24:22 It's powerful and it's so freeing.
24:25 And it just... Finally, when that came,
24:28 I was finally free after 50 years of life.
24:32 I finally was living the life that God had intended me to be.
24:35 What I find so amazing is that most people,
24:38 when they have this gender change,
24:40 when they have the sex change, that's when they say that
24:42 they're at their true freedom, their true liberty,
24:45 and yet, for you, it wasn't after the first one
24:47 but the second one
24:48 that the liberty actually came through
24:50 a relationship with Jesus Christ.
24:52 Is that right? Yes, absolutely.
24:54 And those people
24:55 who haven't had that relationship with Christ
24:58 will never know true freedom.
24:59 Wow, wow, that's a beautiful statement.
25:02 So Walt, if there's anything that you would recommend
25:04 or that you would like to say
25:06 to somebody that's struggling with gender dysphoria,
25:09 what would you like to say?
25:10 Well, I'd like for them to understand
25:12 that gender dysphoria itself
25:14 is only a symptom of something much deeper,
25:18 something much more troubling
25:19 that actually needs psychotherapy
25:21 or to be addressed properly,
25:22 whether it's depression
25:24 or whether it's separation anxiety
25:25 or dissociative disorder, bipolar
25:28 'cause there are so many different disorders
25:30 that the term is called comorbid disorders
25:34 that link themselves
25:36 and attach themselves to gender dysphoria.
25:38 And today, unfortunately,
25:40 most of the people are not getting treated
25:41 for the comorbid disorders,
25:43 they're only dealing with the gender dysphoria.
25:45 Okay, so comorbid disorder,
25:47 could you just kind of define that again?
25:49 Comorbid disorder is this secondary disorder
25:52 that's under gender dysphoria.
25:54 In other words, gender dysphoria only tells you
25:57 that there is something else going on underneath.
26:01 Dysphoria itself is not a disorder,
26:04 but it is the result of a disorder.
26:08 Absolutely, so that really helped me
26:11 to understand more what had happened.
26:13 I thought that I was born in the wrong gender
26:15 and because of my misunderstanding
26:17 of who God was,
26:18 I thought that He was either playing a cruel joke or that,
26:22 you know, it just didn't matter.
26:24 And I remember, as a little kid,
26:26 not knowing how to fix it
26:27 but identifying with what the problem was.
26:30 And there was a depression that I was, I think,
26:33 used to denying
26:34 because, you know, I was getting the wrong toys
26:36 for Christmas and birthdays and I wanted the pretty dresses
26:39 like my sisters got and their toys.
26:41 So when I got a GI Joe and a Tonka Truck,
26:43 that just wasn't cutting it.
26:45 So, you know, there's a lot of times
26:47 that I didn't realize until I actually found your website,
26:50 you know, and I have actually dialogued with you
26:53 that I realize some of the things
26:55 that I had repressed for so long.
26:58 So thank you for this opportunity
26:59 to talk with you once again.
27:02 There's still so much more,
27:03 you know, to discuss on this topic.
27:05 How is your life now?
27:07 What's your life like now?
27:09 Well, I'm sober for almost 30 years,
27:11 married for almost 19 years,
27:13 and I get to travel around the world
27:15 spreading the Word about redemption
27:17 and restoration through Jesus Christ.
27:19 So it can't get much better than that.
27:21 Right, right.
27:22 So how busy are you now with the transgender issue
27:24 being at the height?
27:26 Well, I'm very busy, and that's really great.
27:29 The more I get to do
27:31 and the more I can get the word out,
27:33 I know that I'm serving Christ in this way.
27:36 And so that is really exciting.
27:38 But we're going around the world,
27:39 we've been to Italy and Australia
27:41 and many other places spreading the Word.
27:43 Wonderful, thank you again, Walt.
27:45 Thank you for coming and talking with me
27:48 and with all of our viewers.
27:50 We want to welcome you back
27:51 to view all of our programs here on Pure Choices.
27:54 And thanks again, Walt, for being with us.
27:56 My pleasure.