Participants: Wayne Blakely (Host), Mary Lou Erwin, Sharri Scott
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000117A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned 00:04 that some material may be too candid 00:06 for younger children. 00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices. 00:41 My name is Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministries. 00:44 Today I'm here with my guest, 00:46 Marie Lou Erwin and Sharri Scott. 00:49 You know, when I came out to my parents, 00:54 it was after an attempt at suicide. 00:58 And everything was centered on me 01:02 and about how I felt. 01:05 I'm not sure that I put much emphasis 01:08 or consideration into how my parents felt. 01:12 And today, I think that we're breaking new territory, 01:16 and speaking to very loving parents 01:20 of gay children, 01:22 who may or may not have suspected at some point 01:26 that their child might come out 01:29 and tell them that they were gay. 01:30 I'm guessing probably in most situations, 01:32 it wasn't expected. 01:35 I'm thrilled to death, 01:37 that you have accepted an invitation 01:40 to talk about your lives 01:43 and how the information about being a parent 01:47 of a gay son, or a gay daughter, 01:51 or daughters affected you. 01:54 And not only that, 01:56 but how this affects other parents today. 02:02 Sharri, I began to communicate with you some time ago, 02:07 and you were kind enough to share with me a story. 02:12 I'm wondering 02:13 if you might share a little bit of that with us. 02:15 Sure, I can do that. 02:18 Our journey began about four years ago. 02:21 My youngest daughter 02:22 invited me out for lunch one day, 02:24 and shared with me about a lifestyle 02:27 I never expected to see her enter into. 02:30 And I went home, I told my husband about it, 02:35 we were both very broken up, very sad, 02:39 very blaming ourselves. 02:41 And we just-- 02:43 we're starting to get our feet under us again after that. 02:45 And about five months later, 02:47 our older daughter also invited me out for lunch, 02:50 and shared with me about her life, 02:53 what I certainly didn't expect there either. 02:55 And I-- 02:57 Again I was in the position of having to tell my husband, 03:00 and I didn't want to do it, because he was so sad 03:04 and so broken by the first news. 03:07 I just thought how can I break his heart and tell him this. 03:09 So I actually held it to myself for probably about a month. 03:14 We were on a summer vacation 03:16 and he could tell there was something bothering me. 03:19 And so one day he took me out for a walk 03:22 and got me to tell what was going on. 03:25 And I told him and we were both, you know, 03:28 both just so sad over the whole thing. 03:31 So how did you process that information, 03:36 I not being a parent, 03:37 I'm not sure how that would land. 03:39 Oh, having it-- 03:40 you start with just blaming yourself, 03:43 and the enemy reminds you 03:45 of every wrong thing you ever did, 03:47 and just, you know, heaps around you that, 03:51 you know, this is all your fault. 03:53 If you had had your eyes open, if you'd been watching, 03:55 if you'd been a better mom, this wouldn't have happened. 03:58 Right, right. So. 04:00 Oh, wow. 04:02 I remember the depth and the pain 04:05 that I recognized when I read your email to me. 04:11 I knew a little bit about Mary Lou. 04:15 We had been communicating a little bit on Facebook. 04:18 And I know Mary Lou 04:20 that you have a son identified as gay. 04:23 And I have to say that in both, 04:26 in meeting both of you from the very beginning, 04:29 all I saw was this intense incredible love. 04:33 So can you share? Sure. 04:38 Well, what came about Kenneth was, 04:42 he was in his last year at Walla Walla, 04:44 and he was home on Christmas break. 04:46 And Walla Walla is... 04:47 A university, an Adventist university. 04:49 And he was in his room, and you know how parents are, 04:54 they periodically check the internet 04:56 to see where their kids had been. 04:58 We have done that forever. 04:59 So we happened to be-- 05:01 Robert happened to be checking the internet, 05:04 and he saw a site that said, gaychristian.net. 05:08 And he showed it to me, we both looked at each other, 05:12 and we instinctively knew that it was, 05:15 which child it was. 05:18 So it was just a matter of going in, 05:20 he said, "What are we gonna do?" 05:22 And I said, "Well, we are gonna ask him." 05:23 So he went-- 05:25 I went in, took in his room and ask him, 05:27 you know, "Are you gay?" 05:29 And he was stunned, wait and stunned, 05:36 and just quiet for, seemed like it forever. 05:39 And he said, "Yes." 05:40 And I think 05:42 it must have been a period of real relief for him. 05:45 Sure. You know. 05:46 He, as I look back now and know, 05:50 there weren't but a couple of people 05:51 that he'd shared it with. 05:53 But my first thinking was fear for him. 05:59 I remember the story about-- 06:03 I can't remember now. 06:04 The young boy's name-- 06:05 I think it was in Idaho, Sheppard was his last name. 06:08 Mathew Sheppard. Mathew Sheppard. 06:09 And I thought, 06:11 what are they gonna do to my child. 06:12 Right. You know. 06:14 Yeah, that's what was my first thought. 06:15 It wasn't a heaven or hell, 06:18 because I thought Kenneth is been brought up 06:19 in the truth. 06:20 He's gonna be, you know, he's gonna be celibate, 06:23 he's gonna be-- 06:24 I don't have to worry about that, 06:25 but what is the world gonna do to my son. 06:28 And then the next thing I think that I felt was sadness 06:32 that he had carried this for so long. 06:35 And then, you know, so many things you go through. 06:38 I thought, "Oh, I wasn't a good enough mom, 06:42 that he could come to me and tell me about it, 06:43 that he had to share this-- 06:45 keep this burden to himself, and not share it with me. 06:49 And, yeah, guilt, mothers are good at guilt. 06:51 Yeah. Sure. 06:52 So. 06:54 I'm just thinking, I remember a night-- 06:57 a long after I had told my parents that I was gay. 07:01 And I was very frustrated. 07:03 And we had a tense conversation, 07:06 and I was in my parent's home, 07:07 and I had gone upstairs to the bedroom and laid down. 07:13 A little bit later, my mom came up, 07:17 and she lay down by me and she said, 07:21 "I don't know what to do about this, 07:23 but I want to tell you something, 07:24 that I love you no matter what." 07:27 And so, I know that there is a great sense of love 07:31 that comes from parents for their children. 07:33 And at the same time, I think, we have to consider, 07:40 we need to consider 07:41 of what this is like for a parent, thinking 07:45 that they have some kind of responsibility in this. 07:48 Today, I look at it from the standpoint 07:50 of knowing a lot better about it than I ever have. 07:53 Because we finally delved into the matter 07:55 looking at the fact 07:56 that we're all born with the sinful nature. 07:58 And we have the sins of our fathers on. 08:01 We have circumstances beyond our control. 08:04 Sometimes, molestation, 08:06 there are so many different reasons 08:08 that somebody can end up gay. 08:10 But it's so important today, that I convey, 08:12 and that we convey 08:14 that the parent not blame themselves 08:17 for causing something 08:19 that they weren't responsible for. 08:20 Now I have to add to that in situations 08:23 that it is possible 08:24 that a parent did molest their child, 08:27 and of course, that would be a whole different scenario, 08:29 different circumstance. 08:31 When I had the communication from both of you, 08:34 I began to think, I wonder if it would be helpful, 08:39 if these parents could talk to each other. 08:42 And initially, Sharri, there was great resistance, 08:46 you were like no, no. 08:48 Can you tell me a little bit 08:49 of what was going through your head? 08:51 Yeah, I was very fearful that-- 08:58 it was still so new, I think to us. 09:00 And we didn't-- 09:01 we were still hiding behind this fear 09:03 of anybody finding out. 09:05 And I knew that where she lived 09:08 was close to where we had lived few years back. 09:10 And I was-- 09:11 my thought was, well, what if she know somebody 09:13 who knows me or know somebody, 09:15 who knows somebody who knows me. 09:16 And I was going through the whole thing, 09:18 and I was just really scared to talk about it with anybody. 09:21 And I think, I even told you, 09:23 that I would make up a new email account 09:28 with a new name and everything. 09:30 And I would get to know her through that, because I just, 09:32 I wanted to stay hidden at the time. 09:34 Yeah. 09:38 Eventually there was an agreement, 09:40 where you wrote me, and you said 09:42 that you thought you would be ready 09:44 to make an attempt to have some communication. 09:48 At that time, I revealed emails to each other, 09:52 and tell me how, Mary Lou, what was it like 09:55 when you began to share with Sharri 09:59 about your circumstance in your life? 10:03 It was comforting to have somebody to talk to, 10:07 because I wasn't telling anybody in our family. 10:09 I wasn't telling any church people, 10:13 you know, I didn't want to have the finger pointed at me, 10:17 "Oh, well, you must have been a bad mother," you know. 10:20 So you keep it to yourself, and it was refreshing, 10:26 and right away from reading from her, 10:29 it was apparent that she got it. 10:32 She understood 10:33 and we related quickly to each other, 10:36 it was wonderful. 10:37 And today you communicate quite frequently. 10:41 Yeah, yeah. 10:43 So I happened to know that eventually 10:47 the two of you met face to face, 10:49 how did that happen? 10:51 Thanks to you. Yes. 10:54 Wayne, you decided 10:56 that this was important for us to meet each other, 10:58 and you snuck Mary Lou out to my part of the world, 11:03 without telling me you were bringing her. 11:05 And it was so exciting to meet her, 11:09 and to be able to spend that first time together, 11:12 and we found out, when we met in person, 11:14 that it was even more wonderful 11:16 than the relationship we had formed over the internet. 11:18 So it's just amazing to have somebody, 11:21 like she said before, who got it, 11:23 you have friends around you, who are supportive, 11:25 and loving, and caring, and they are praying for you. 11:28 And because some of them are parents, 11:31 they get it to a little extent. 11:33 But to have somebody who is a kindred spirit, 11:38 we call each other. 11:39 We-- 11:40 it's just wonderful. 11:42 And, Mary Lou, I went with you, 11:43 and it was quite an adventure of itself. 11:49 We speak and travel all over the world 11:51 and I accumulate miles 11:52 and so, God had impressed me to use this ministry miles 11:57 to put parents together, 11:59 because I saw the long needed connection 12:02 to have communication and to be supportive 12:05 and helpful of one and other. 12:06 And I know, Mary Lou, you was about as excited as I was. 12:09 I know that after the first night 12:12 that it was the right thing. 12:15 I stayed in someone else's home, 12:16 and you went and stayed with Sharri. 12:19 So tell me what was that like 12:20 to be able to finally talk to someone, 12:22 another parent face to face? 12:24 It was good to talk, not just her, but then Ron too. 12:27 You know, your hubby to be able to hear an other man's, 12:32 you know, thinking about what was going on, and yeah, 12:36 just to be able to put a face with the name. 12:40 And to be able to just share more of our story together, 12:45 it was a wonderful experience. 12:47 You know, you mentioned, Shaari's husband, 12:51 and I know a little bit of your husband as well. 12:54 They seem to sometimes 12:55 be in the background a little bit, 12:56 but they are very much part of this conversation 13:00 and you guys might be able to share a little bit 13:03 about what your husbands share with you. 13:05 The types of conversations that you have 13:08 about their love-- 13:09 Do they also blame them-- 13:11 I mean, I think the father, particularly in male situations 13:15 might tend to blame themselves a little bit too, 13:18 is that the case, Mary Lou? 13:19 I think initially, that was true. 13:21 And, you know, when we first found out 13:23 about Kenneth, it was very little sleep for me, 13:26 it was reading, reading, constant reading, you know. 13:29 And then, you would read something about a dad, 13:31 who didn't spend time with the men. 13:33 And that, I felt like, "Whoa, that was true." 13:36 And there was a period of time, a small period of time, 13:38 where I was thinking, "Oh, oh, oh, 13:40 maybe this was Robert," you know. 13:41 Because he was not playing basketball, 13:44 he was not playing football, you know. 13:46 So Kenneth didn't get the manly thing, 13:50 so you go through all kinds of-- 13:52 well, somebody that you can blame. 13:54 You know, it has to be somebody. 13:58 But we were definitely, you know, on the same page 14:00 as far as what we believe. 14:02 And Kenneth knew immediately, 14:05 that we love him desperately, you know. 14:08 So, and that was a relief to him. 14:11 Because he's seen kids 14:13 who have been kicked out of their homes. 14:15 And he was so grateful 14:17 that he didn't have those parents. 14:20 I know, Sharri, that having met Ron a couple of times 14:24 that this is heavy on his shoulders, 14:27 on his heart. 14:28 I know that your daughters have actually gone individually 14:31 with him at times, and communicated 14:34 and the dynamic has always been such that, 14:38 you have this immense love for both of your children. 14:41 Yes. 14:42 And, yeah, there is so much weight 14:44 that you carry through this. 14:46 Tell me a little bit about what that's like, 14:49 and I think the component 14:52 that really needs to be brought in here 14:54 is that so many parents love their children. 14:57 And they think that 14:59 in order to demonstrate this love, 15:01 they have to endorse the behavior and say, 15:04 it's okay, it doesn't matter who you love, 15:06 but you guys have decided to hold to a biblical 15:10 and very spiritual position 15:14 of which the word of God gives us. 15:16 And it's very difficult at times too, 15:19 because our children, 15:22 our girls particularly want us to support them 15:26 in the choices that they've made. 15:28 And when we have said, you know, 15:31 we love you to pieces 15:33 but we can't support the choice that you've made, 15:37 it's made them push us back. 15:40 And, or push back from us. 15:42 And so that's a real challenge that we've got. 15:45 But it's-- 15:47 at the same time it's really drawn Ron and I closer together 15:50 as a couple, because of what we've 15:53 you know, had to experience with them 15:54 pushing us away, because we won't support 15:59 everything that they're choosing. 16:01 I can't imagine-- 16:03 it's like a child disowning their parents 16:06 in certain aspects, 16:08 because they can't get the approval 16:09 that they desire to have. 16:11 And to hold on to-- 16:14 I know there is a verse and I can't remember, 16:16 if it's in Isaiah, somewhere. 16:18 It talks about, "If you love your husband more 16:21 or your children more, then you love God, 16:24 that God holds us accountable for that." 16:26 I mean-- 16:27 and yet God is not, you know, in our physical presence, 16:30 we don't see Him, we don't interact 16:32 like we do with other human beings. 16:34 So to put your faith, and your trust, 16:36 and your love in your God 16:38 beyond even your children has to be-- 16:42 It has to come at great cost. 16:44 Your faith has come at a great cost. 16:46 Can you share anything about that? 16:48 It hurts. Yeah. 16:50 It's-- 16:51 I always think about the verse in Matthew, you know, 16:53 there will be a time 16:57 where there will be a mother against son, 16:59 or father against brother, whatever. 17:01 And I think, you know, that's a possibility. 17:05 Yeah. But I love Jesus more. 17:11 And not choosing to support our children 17:13 doesn't mean we don't love them. 17:15 It's absolutely love that's doing that, 17:17 because we want to see them 17:19 have everything that Jesus has planned for them. 17:21 And if we buy into what they're choosing to do right now. 17:26 And they happily go along 17:28 knowing that they have our support with that. 17:30 I mean, 17:33 how is that showing the love that we need to show. 17:36 I know that I'm sitting here today 17:39 only as the result of the prayers of my parents. 17:43 And they prayed for nearly 40 years. 17:45 I know they have to be on their knees at times 17:49 thinking, is God really hearing our prayers, 17:52 'cause I don't see anything happening. 17:54 And I share, you know, when I'm on the road, 17:58 and I'm speaking in different churches 18:00 about this being a two part prayer, 18:03 that there is never a prayer that God doesn't hear. 18:06 But that we don't tell God what to do, 18:08 we share our desires with Him. 18:10 And that when I come, 18:14 or the person you're praying for comes to the point 18:17 of which they're open to listening 18:19 to the Holy Spirit. 18:20 God just unleashes the whole host of heaven. 18:23 And sends the Holy Spirit, and take all those prayers 18:27 and surrounds that person, 18:28 and you begin to see that there is really truly hope, 18:32 because you see something changing in somebody's life. 18:35 And I pray that you're both alive 18:37 to be able to see that change take place, 18:40 because it may not happen while we're living, you know. 18:43 And that's, I think heaven is gonna be so incredible, 18:46 and that the mother or father who didn't think 18:49 that their child would be there, 18:51 is there before him, because later, you know, 18:53 they gave their heart over to Jesus Christ. 18:56 There'd be surprises. 18:57 Yeah, many, many great surprises. 19:00 I'm so impressed by the solidarity 19:04 that you've kind of gotten with each other. 19:06 And at one point you began to share with me, 19:10 that you thought also, 19:11 that there needed to be support for other parents. 19:14 And so as a result of that, 19:16 you formed an organization under Coming Out Ministries, 19:19 called Sheltering Trees. 19:20 Right. 19:22 Mary Lou, how did you arrive at that? 19:25 I tell you, when you said, you wanted us to cover group, 19:28 that it was-- 19:30 I call them God wings. 19:32 It was just a God wing 19:33 as far as a title for our group, 19:36 and it was Sheltering Trees. 19:38 And I don't know 19:39 how many people are familiar with new song, 19:41 which is a contemporary Christian group. 19:44 But they have a song called Sheltering Trees. 19:47 And so I was gonna share with you 19:49 some of the lyrics here. 19:51 Please. 19:53 It's been said, a friend is like a Sheltering tree, 19:56 a place of refugee 19:57 when trouble comes for you and me. 20:00 Someone we can count on through thick and thin, 20:02 when the storms of life are blowing. 20:04 There's just nothing like a friend. 20:06 We all need Sheltering Trees, friends in our lives 20:09 who will get down on their knees, 20:10 and lift us up before the King of kings. 20:13 We all need Sheltering Trees. 20:16 There been days that I wasn't sure, 20:17 I could make it. 20:18 Clouds of doubt came rolling in, 20:20 and I didn't know what I would do. 20:23 I would have given in, and said I can't go on. 20:28 If it hadn't been for a friend that helped me to be strong. 20:32 We all need Sheltering Trees, 20:34 friends in our lives who'll get down on their knees. 20:37 You can face the highest mountains and climb, 20:41 they feel so high 20:43 or come through the darkest valley 20:44 and it won't seem so wide. 20:46 Nothing is impossible when a friend is by your side. 20:49 We all need Sheltering Trees, 20:51 friends in our lives who'll get down on their knees. 20:53 Yeah. 20:55 And that was what encompassed to me, 20:57 all these parents that were out there 21:00 needing a friend who would get down on their knees, 21:03 a prayer warrior for their children. 21:06 So our list has grown very long. 21:08 Yeah. 21:10 When we speak-- 21:11 we share with congregations 21:13 and people that we encounter about Sheltering Trees. 21:17 Sheltering Trees exist on Facebook as a private form. 21:22 It's not there to exploit anyone. 21:24 I mean, it's to be a private place 21:26 that people can come to. 21:28 So I recommend, if there is a parent 21:31 who wants support from other parents 21:35 to contact Mary Lou Erwin, or Sharri Scott on Facebook 21:40 and then and get access to Sheltering Trees. 21:45 You know there is a fear factor 21:48 that you both were part of early on, 21:50 and you know that Sheltering Trees 21:52 has been a slow beginnings. 21:54 Kind of like in this ministry, 21:56 we had slow beginnings, but, you know, 21:58 God just kept opening up one door after the other. 22:01 And today we find that we're able to help parents 22:06 come and contact with you. 22:08 Can you give me a little basis 22:11 about what takes place in Sheltering Trees, 22:15 and why it would be a safe place for a parent 22:19 to come and share? 22:21 First of all, it's a secret group. 22:22 Nobody can get in there unless we bring them in, 22:25 and nobody is gonna see that you're there. 22:28 Right. 22:29 It's a place of hope and encouragement. 22:32 And the kind of things we share are Bible passages, 22:36 passages from other sources 22:38 that have been really encouraging. 22:40 Songs, prayer requests 22:43 if we're really struggling with something 22:45 or some issue with our child. 22:47 We share prayer request and everyone can pray about it. 22:50 It's a very hopeful place, a very encouraging happy place. 22:54 And most of the times-- 22:56 I mean sometimes, when there is a prayer request, 22:58 you know, it's not as happy, 22:59 but we know that we can band together, 23:01 and we can pray about these things together. 23:03 We know that there is people out there all over, 23:06 who are holding our children up in prayer, 23:07 and that's huge, huge. 23:09 Huge. Yeah, yeah. 23:10 And we message back and forth, 23:12 you know, with the people in the group. 23:15 We do private messaging. 23:16 Yeah, oh, great. Oh, yeah. 23:18 So that's, you know, 23:19 maybe you want to put something on the page 23:22 that's going on with your child, 23:24 but you want to talk to somebody 23:25 specifically about it. 23:26 Then we message back and forth. 23:28 Right, so that we can... 23:29 Or we share phone numbers, you know, if we want to talk. 23:31 Yeah, so-- 23:33 So there is confidentiality there. 23:34 Sure. Oh, yeah. 23:35 And it's, you do feel like it's a safe place. 23:38 Yes. 23:39 And a parent can share their struggle 23:41 or their story openly, 23:43 if they so desire under Sheltering Trees, 23:45 is that right? 23:46 Yes. In the form there. 23:48 Yeah. 23:49 I want to take opportunity to put a plug in there 23:51 for the prayers, that are the prayer requests, 23:55 and I know you pray amongst yourselves. 23:57 We also have a prayer line. 24:01 If you go to comingoutministries.org, 24:04 you can click on the prayer line 24:06 and see the phone number. 24:07 Michael Carducci hosts this prayer line 24:10 on the east coast on Fridays, 24:13 from six to seven in the morning, 24:15 and I host the one on the west coast on Thursdays 24:19 from six to seven in the morning also. 24:22 If we're gone or out of town, 24:23 we try to have somebody else facilitate that. 24:26 But we have seen amazing things happen, 24:29 we've seen results of prayer. 24:32 We have a man on the prayer line 24:35 that's been calling 24:36 since we started three and half years ago, 24:39 whose wife left him because she identified as lesbian. 24:43 And he had all biblical rights 24:46 to go on and seek someone else to have in his life. 24:51 But he chose to hold to God's word 24:54 and to God's promises, 24:55 and claim those promises in prayer, 24:58 on our prayer lines. 25:00 And over the course of time, 25:02 we have watched the Holy Spirit at work. 25:05 And we are on a brink here 25:07 of possibly even seeing this husband and wife reunited. 25:13 Oh, wow. 25:14 And so it's very exciting to watch and so, you know, 25:16 I just want to lift them up in prayer. 25:19 Sure. 25:20 It's through your prayer line 25:21 that you have shared more parents with us 25:24 that can, you know, feel a support in our group, 25:29 so we appreciate that. 25:31 Absolutely. 25:33 So to tell me just briefly here 25:36 in the short time that we have left. 25:38 What your relationship is like with your children today? 25:42 Well, Kenneth, it's good as it can be, 25:46 you know, we have the situation between us 25:49 that he is gay and living in the lifestyle. 25:53 But he knows and he's welcome in our home, 25:58 he knows he's loved, he brings his partner. 26:00 Yeah. He is very respectful in that. 26:03 When they come-- 26:05 they are in different bedrooms, their behavior is appropriate. 26:12 So, you know, it's good as it can get. 26:17 I praise the Lord for that, 26:19 because Kenneth knows that-- 26:25 I think he would like nothing more than that 26:27 we could step back and say, 26:30 "Oh, no we support you, and you know, 26:31 and it would just make everything great. 26:34 But he loves us and I know that he does. 26:38 He's reflected that in his behavior so many times. 26:44 So-- 26:45 Great, that's good to hear. How about you, Sharri? 26:49 Our girls have-- 26:52 I guess you can say, sort of dismissed themselves 26:54 from our lives in a lot of ways. 26:55 They've fixed it, 27:00 so communication is very difficult. 27:03 As much as we love them, 27:04 and we try every little way to relay that to them. 27:08 They moved away from the area where we live, 27:10 and they have blocked most of the ways 27:16 that I could communicate with them. 27:18 And when we do try to send them a letter or email 27:24 or something like that, 27:26 we get no response from them whatsoever. 27:28 Well, that's a perfectly good reason 27:31 why again Sheltering Trees exist, 27:34 and why our prayer line exist. 27:36 And so I want to encourage parents 27:39 to participate in these opportunities 27:42 to lift up their children. 27:43 I want to thank you so much for joining us 27:46 on Pure Choices today, 27:48 and to our viewing audience, 27:50 I pray that you're blessed in this program. 27:52 Thank you for joining us, 27:53 and please view again Pure Choices 27:56 whenever you have the opportunity. |
Revised 2016-06-09