Participants: Wayne Blakely (Host), Andrea Deckert, Sharri Scott, May Lou Erwin, Elijah Rainney
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000118A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:05 may be too candid for younger children. 00:40 Welcome to Pure Choices, 00:41 I'm Wayne Blakely from Coming Out Ministers. 00:44 You know, there was a time in my life 00:46 when I was bold enough to come out and say 00:48 that I was gay. 00:50 I started telling every one. 00:51 I didn't stopped to think so much about the impact 00:55 it would have on those that I was telling 00:56 because I was more interested in myself than I was, 01:01 those who might hear this. 01:02 And most importantly, my parents. 01:06 We don't know we stop to think about the effect 01:08 that this has on the parents, 01:10 and it's a bit shocking sometimes, 01:12 and its bit stunning. 01:14 And so, I think it is very important 01:17 that we finally talk to parents about how this effects them, 01:21 about how they have a great love 01:23 for there children, 01:24 a great love in Christian families 01:27 defiantly for God. 01:28 And how do you continue in that relationship, 01:31 with your relationship between Jesus Christ and also, 01:34 the love that you want to sure 01:35 that transcending to your child as well. 01:38 So let me introduce the panel today, 01:41 starting with Sharri Scott, Andrea Deckert, 01:45 May Lou Erwin, 01:47 and our father here Elijah Rainney. 01:49 I want to thank every one of you so much 01:52 for coming to share from your hearts. 01:55 I know that this isn't the easiest thing 01:57 to able to do, 01:58 and how even your children might view this. 02:01 But I think that in my conversations with you 02:04 that there will be no questions about the fact 02:05 that you love them deeply. 02:09 So let's just start here with Sharri. 02:14 And in another program 02:15 we've talked a little more extensively 02:17 about the fact that we have a form available today 02:21 called Sheltering Trees to help bring parents together 02:25 and recognize that there is support. 02:28 As a parent, tell me again a little bit 02:30 about how this effected you and just share from your heart? 02:36 Well, it was about four years ago 02:38 when our daughters, 02:40 each of them about six months apart 02:42 told us about there... 02:45 there choice, there lifestyle that they were getting into. 02:47 And in each case 02:50 the girls came and told me personally about it 02:53 and then I have to go home and tell my husband. 02:55 And the two of us were... 02:57 we didn't see it coming, we were very... 03:00 very surprised, very shocked, 03:02 we went through the whole blame, 03:05 and depression, and hurt, and pain. 03:07 Also, not only personally but just thinking about 03:10 what our girls had experienced 03:12 and that they had been suffering with this 03:14 and never been able to tell us or talk to us about it. 03:17 It was a really hard time. 03:18 Right. Thank you. 03:20 Andrea, you have a daughter who identified as gay to you. 03:25 What was that like and what was your relationship, 03:29 or how did you engage in, with God about this? 03:35 That was devastating, to say the least. 03:39 I had raised my child for the Lord, 03:41 and it was hurtful 03:45 that she choose to walk a different direction. 03:49 And for a while I tried to... 03:52 convince her she was wrong and she didn't want to do that. 03:55 Right. 03:57 But her feeling, 03:58 I am sure that you considered her feelings. 04:00 Did you feel that she was considering 04:02 your feelings in the process? 04:03 Oh, no. 04:05 No. 04:06 Not really, I didn't feel like she was... 04:08 So a little bit of a rocky time in that. 04:11 What was it... 04:14 the transition, because I know you love your daughter 04:16 greatly today. 04:18 In the information that you received, 04:21 how long did it take before you came to an agreement 04:26 about how you would walk forward with this information? 04:29 Between her and I, you mean? 04:31 Yeah. 04:32 There wasn't too much agreement for quite a while. 04:37 There wasn't a lot of talk for quite a while. 04:40 I didn't know how to handle it, and she didn't know either. 04:44 And so are talk would be very superficial for a while, 04:48 and I... 04:50 it took me a long time to figure out 04:51 how to deal with this information 04:54 and how I was going to handle it in my life. 04:56 So your pretty stunned. 04:57 Oh, yes. Oh, taken way off guard. 05:00 Mary Lou, you, this situation for you 05:03 where your son came to you and just broadcast. 05:07 What was your situation? 05:08 My situation was he was home from college on Christmas break 05:15 and he was in his room, and we just happened to be, 05:19 as we do periodically, check the computer to see 05:21 where the kids have been, 05:22 and he had been on gaychristian.net. 05:26 And so, I showed that to Robert 05:30 and he was kind looked at each other 05:33 and that we knew which child it was. 05:37 And so I just... 05:39 Robert is your husband? My husband, yes. 05:41 So he said, what are we going to do? 05:43 And I said, well, we're going to ask him. 05:45 So I just walked into Kenny's room 05:47 and asked him, "Are you gay?" 05:50 And that took him off guard. 05:52 He was more off guard than I was, I think. 05:56 But you know, you were talking 05:58 about their children responding, 06:00 Kenneth was in tears because you know, 06:02 one of his things was, I know, 06:05 mom, I'll never be able to give you grandchildren. 06:10 So, it was a really emotional time. 06:13 I found myself reading everything 06:15 I possible could read, because I am fixed-it mom 06:19 and I was gonna a fix this. 06:22 And I reached out to everybody. 06:25 I mean, big name pastors. 06:28 I was bring in the troops. 06:34 You want to fix that, right? 06:36 What did you say to God? 06:39 Well, my conversation with God, 06:41 I am sure initially was mostly, I was sorry, you know. 06:46 I must have messed up somewhere, lot of guilt, 06:53 and sadness as I mention that. 06:56 He... 06:57 we didn't have a relationship 06:58 that he could come and tell me that, 07:00 thinking about all the years 07:01 he had been carrying this burden. 07:03 I'm fearful for him that was going to happen to him 07:07 when people knew. 07:09 But it came to the point and this was, I mean, 07:13 it's been probably eight or nine years now. 07:16 But that I just, I gave it to God. 07:18 I said, you know, I can't fix this, you know. 07:23 It's all on You. Okay. 07:25 Well, I mean, I'll come back to you guys 07:27 for some additional questions that I have. 07:30 But, Elijah, you have a daughter 07:32 who identified, 07:34 did she identified as gay to you? 07:36 How did that happen? 07:37 We got a phone call, 07:40 she had finished academy in North Carolina 07:44 and she went to Florida to work there. 07:48 And her mother and I got a phone call one day 07:52 about she wanted to introduce us to someone 07:55 on the phone that she was in love with. 07:58 And you know we were expecting a male voice 08:02 on the other end, and she introduces us 08:06 and there is a female voice coming over the phone. 08:09 And at that movement, you know, what do you say, 08:14 what do you do? 08:17 And... 08:20 So little confrontational. 08:22 Well, it was nice of her to call, 08:25 but we found that, as parents, we were at a mess 08:29 because I didn't know 08:30 whether or not to greet the young lady, 08:33 well, how to talk to her. 08:35 And you know, God really helps you 08:38 in that situations like that, 08:40 because He finally help us to realize that 08:45 in this situation we not only had to be concerned 08:47 about our daughter 08:49 but then we had another person's daughter 08:52 that we had to be concerned about too. 08:55 Because the young lady that she was with 08:57 is somebody else's child 08:59 and that was really what helped us 09:02 in that situations 09:03 is that how do we reach out to both of these young ladies, 09:09 because the parental thing is to try 09:11 to defend your daughter from this horrible person. 09:17 And God really helped in that situation. 09:19 It was just His grace. 09:20 Yeah, God is really good isn't it? 09:21 Yes, He is. 09:23 And so, I know that God has carried 09:26 each one of you through this. 09:28 I know from my own identifying as gay, 09:33 that I struggled with God at that particular point 09:36 that I made that decision. 09:38 I didn't see the church talking about this, 09:41 my parents weren't talking about it, 09:43 my teachers were not talking about it. 09:45 In fact, there were participating in the teasing 09:47 and the harassment that I was getting at school. 09:50 And so, I felt justified finally, 09:52 when another gay friends said to me, you know, 09:55 the church is just only propagating this 09:58 and making it worst. 09:59 And so, I said, well, fine, you know, I am out of here. 10:03 I know that that devastated my parents 10:06 and I think that they hid it fairly well for a while. 10:10 But one thing my dad said to me was that 10:13 I don't know why this happened 10:15 or why you have the feelings that you do. 10:16 We don't have those answers, 10:18 but I do know one thing and he said, 10:21 "That is, is that I love you, your mother loves you 10:25 and we know that Jesus loves you 10:27 and we know that He will never stop loving you, 10:29 and that you are always welcome here." 10:31 And that made a lot over the years. 10:34 I am sad for I have some of my behavior was 10:38 because I flaunted it a bit in front of my parents 10:41 to say, hey, you know, 10:42 you cant do anything about this. 10:44 So, Andrea, I want to come back to you 10:47 because of the frustration that was there initially, 10:51 and I've see that in the lives of parents 10:53 and there children before, 10:55 so much so that some have kicked there kids 10:57 out of there home, they are not welcome back. 10:59 But I know today and I see the closeness 11:03 that you have with your daughter today. 11:05 I wanted to know 11:06 how did that develop after this rough time? 11:11 I called a really good friend of mine. 11:14 And it was, this kind of touching. 11:17 Yeah, yeah, I understand. 11:20 She said to me, "You keep Jesus number one. 11:25 No matter what, don't let anyone come 11:27 between you and Jesus." 11:30 And boy, that's what I needed to hear 11:32 because everything was going through my mind at that time, 11:36 did I want to kick her out, did I want to... 11:38 what do I do? 11:40 And when realized that Jesus had to be number one, 11:43 and I wanted Him to be number one, 11:47 I realize Jesus would not kick her out. 11:49 That's right. 11:50 Jesus, because when I was in my sense in my life 11:54 Jesus didn't kick me out. 11:56 He stayed by my side 11:57 and He said, I am waiting for you, 11:58 I am waiting for you, you're welcome, you know, 12:01 you're welcome, just come back. 12:03 And so I thought I have to treat my daughter 12:06 the way Jesus treated me with love. 12:08 I reminded of Romans 5:8, 12:12 its refreshed in my mind daily today 12:16 that it says that Jesus died for us 12:18 while we were still sinners. 12:20 And so, He knew all of the horrible things 12:22 that we would do, sometime we... 12:24 some have even cruised him, some have gone down past, 12:28 they need not go down, that was me. 12:32 And the whole time 12:33 He saw the potential for my heart 12:36 and just kept saying, "I have you, 12:40 I know that you'll retuned to me." 12:42 And so you must have had something like that going on? 12:45 Yes, and I want to say something else 12:47 that's I am not proved to say 12:49 but I know other parents have struggled with this too. 12:52 I even thought of taking my life. 12:54 I was that hurt. 12:58 And I've heard other parents express that. 13:02 And I am so glad I didn't do that 13:04 because my daughter is a beautiful, beautiful being 13:08 and God loves her so much, and so do I. 13:13 Yeah. 13:14 So, you, each of you made a decision, 13:19 because society today says 13:21 you really don't love your child unless you, 13:23 you know, endorse or approve of there behavior. 13:26 And I've seen a bit of a transition 13:28 in our own denomination where many people have said, 13:32 oh, it really doesn't matter 13:34 who you love as long as you love someone. 13:36 In fact, if there was gay monogamy, 13:38 that's all that would matter to God. 13:40 But when I go to the word 13:42 I don't find Gods direction on that. 13:45 And yet, we pretend or some people pretend 13:49 as though the word is worded differently 13:51 or we can interpret it differently. 13:53 You've chosen to take the literal meaning 13:57 of God's word. 13:59 How have you hung on, Mary Lou, to Jesus 14:03 and the truth that He's provided you, 14:05 and still love your son? 14:08 Well, God just comes first, you know, it's... 14:13 it's hard as a mom, you know, to... 14:21 You have this child that, you know, 14:23 they have no idea how much love you have 14:27 and what you would do for them. 14:29 I mean, I have told the Lord, 14:31 "You can have my place in heaven..." 14:32 Me too, me too. 14:34 But, you know, 14:37 we're all on our own in that respect. 14:40 And so I just hang on to the promises, and the hope, 14:44 and the testimonies I have heard of others, 14:48 and know that my son was brought up in the word. 14:53 And you know, He says that children will go back 14:56 to the way they were taught. 14:58 And I claim these promises so that's what keeps me going. 15:03 Yeah. 15:05 You know as Jesus laid down His life for us, 15:09 the kind of love that God had for us was so deep 15:12 that even you know, while He knew our future 15:15 He still gave up his life for us. 15:17 Elijah, I haven't heard it from you 15:20 but I have a sense that you would put your life down 15:23 for your daughter, right? 15:25 But not only that, and as I look back on it, 15:28 really the Holy Sprit worked through me 15:31 because when the young lady came on the phone 15:34 to introduce herself, 15:36 I didn't know how to handle it. 15:38 And He put the thought in my mind that... 15:44 tell her that you're going to deal with her 15:47 as she was my own daughter. 15:51 And I look back and that's a strange concept 15:53 thinking back on it. 15:55 Because I didn't know how to address 15:57 the other young lady and God said, 15:59 and next thing I am saying, 16:01 "Young lady, I am going to talk to you 16:03 as if I am your dad." 16:05 And that, it wasn't me who did that. 16:09 And so I had to tell her how much I was... 16:16 I am trying to convey to her 16:17 not only I was concerned about my daughter 16:21 but I had to really be concerned about her too. 16:24 And then after Him helping me to do that 16:30 then I was able to talk to both of them. 16:32 And I was able to share with of them my concern, 16:36 and you know, that I care about them, 16:41 I care about her, I care about my daughter. 16:44 And that gave me an opportunity to talk to them, 16:49 to be honest with them that I did not agree with there 16:54 concept of loving one and other. 16:56 But as a parent I love you and I love, 16:59 and care about both of you. 17:01 And that was the thing 17:04 that I appreciate God 17:07 using me to show the young lady, 17:09 love, and to show my daughter love, 17:12 because it's so easy for parents to take sides. 17:17 You know, you want to take side 17:18 with your child and get rid of the villain, 17:22 which the other person is, that not how God's works. 17:25 Right. Right. 17:27 I'm sorry, I want to switch to you here for a moment. 17:30 I want to have great respect for your daughters 17:35 should they ever view this program. 17:39 But you were presented, and have been presented 17:43 with a little bit of an usually circumstances 17:47 in the sense that 17:48 while you have demonstrated great love 17:51 and again, I think about Jesus... 17:57 That your children have kind of rejected that off. 18:03 They have... 18:05 to all appearances, you know, to look at the fact 18:08 that they don't want to have anything to do with me 18:11 and very little to with my husband. 18:14 But I never think to myself that they don't love me. 18:18 I think that they are rejecting God 18:21 more than they're rejecting me 18:22 and may be I somehow represent some of that 18:26 or what ever to them. 18:28 I do believe that they love me 18:31 and I do every thing I can in the limited... 18:37 ways that they've given me to contact them 18:40 and express love to them but it's difficult. 18:44 But you thing of Jesus 18:45 and how much He loves His children 18:47 all over the world who ignore Him 18:49 and pay no attention to Him, and He goes right on loving. 18:52 And He has to do that through us, 18:55 you know, for our kids. 18:56 Absolutely. 18:58 Elijah, briefly, I just would like to... 19:00 I know a lot of people are faced with this 19:02 and particularly parents get faced with this. 19:05 Your daughter, at one point, said to you, 19:07 "I am getting married 19:08 and I am inviting you to our wedding." 19:11 What is your response? 19:14 Well. 19:15 You know you always want, like, Sharri, you know, 19:19 in the situation daughter pushed us away. 19:22 So like when you get these opportunities to, 19:25 that they open the door to you, you want to be there. 19:30 And then you're in a dilemma because, whoa, 19:32 you can't go under this situation. 19:36 And you know by saying no, 19:39 there are going to misunderstand you 19:41 and think you don't wanna be around them. 19:43 But it's not that your rejecting them, 19:46 but I cannot come and affirm what you're doing 19:51 so you try to explain and you know, at each junction 19:57 there are really requiring you to surrender your values 20:01 and go along with them. 20:03 So basically, you have to tell them, 20:05 well, no. 20:07 Or then, if I come... 20:10 I had to finally tell that, well, 20:12 I'll come but if they asks me who disagrees with this, 20:16 I said, "Honey, I am gonna raise my hand." 20:21 Then she said, "Don't come." 20:22 Okay. 20:24 But your reasoning was because the... 20:27 by being there it would show an endorsement of something 20:30 that you didn't have biblical grounding for? 20:33 Right. 20:34 The parent, your child looks for approval 20:38 and reaffirming from the parent. 20:42 And of course, that's what you want to give 20:44 to your children. 20:46 And but, in the situation you have to let your child know 20:49 that if I... 20:50 that's why finally I came, I said, okay 20:52 because she pleaded. 20:53 And I said, "Well, look, if you really want me to come, 20:54 " I said, "I will not participate in anything, 20:57 I will not be a party to whatever you want to do. 20:59 So she finally came, 21:01 "Well, if you just come in and sit in the back." 21:03 I said, "Well, okay. 21:04 But now remember, if I come and sit in the back 21:07 there is a part in the ceremony that says, 21:10 is there anyone here that disapproves this?" 21:13 I say, "Honey, when they ask the question, 21:16 I am going to raise my hand and I will stand up and say 21:19 why I disapprove of that." 21:21 So basically, it so hard to you know, 21:26 to love your child when you see your child doing the things 21:31 that you've tried to help them not to do. 21:35 But I am glad that God can give parents that kind of love. 21:40 Right. 21:41 As someone who experienced same-sex attraction 21:44 and for some one who, at a time like that, 21:48 I would have wanted my parents 21:51 to have been present over such a celebration 21:53 because I finally felt happy with myself. 21:57 But I think that it's important that love is conveyed 22:01 while the upholding of the biblical principle 22:04 is still held out. 22:05 So that today, it's important that friends and family 22:11 that are Christians believe 22:13 and know that this is a ceremony 22:16 that would be, that which God would ordain and sanctify, 22:20 and since that's not there from the word of God. 22:24 It's important to share that I love and care about you, 22:28 and we like you to may be come to dinner on another date, 22:31 or you know, make arrangements to socializes and do things, 22:36 go hiking, go camping and stuff, 22:37 but necessary show celebration 22:39 of something that God isn't celebrating. 22:43 Can I share something? Yes, please. 22:45 Well, you know, when this first happen, 22:47 I was focused so much on Kenneth being gay 22:51 that it just, it began to overshadow 22:54 every thing else about Kenneth. 22:55 And God brought it to me, Mary Lou, God, 22:59 Kenneth has so many qualities that you need to look at. 23:03 This is something that you know, I'll deal with. 23:05 But focus on what an amazing child he is. 23:08 I mean, he is witty, he is compassionate, 23:12 he's got all of these wonderful qualities. 23:14 And I have to tell you, that helped me so much 23:16 to start seeing my child again in the light, you know, 23:20 it's not that I dismiss this or I don't pray about it but-- 23:24 But I do see, Mary Lou, 23:26 that you do make special arrangements 23:30 to go and visit frequently, 23:32 you have Kenneth into your home, 23:34 and I believe his partner? 23:35 Bring his partner, yeah. 23:37 And that you know, he is very respectful, 23:38 they are in different rooms, 23:40 he never does anything in front of us 23:41 that's impropriate. 23:44 He was grown, you know, brought up to be respectable. 23:47 And I have always tried to treat him that way. 23:50 So he is carried that through in that relationship. 23:54 And I pray for his partner. Sure, Absolutely. 23:57 Can I jam in on? 23:59 Mary Lou, it's the similar situation that I had 24:02 because, really, God had to really get me to the point 24:06 that sure my child was into homosexuality 24:10 and it was something that I did not approve of, 24:13 but was I am-- 24:14 was I going to allow this 24:16 to totally overshadow the whole thing? 24:21 And then God, the way he got me to that point he says, 24:24 Elijah, would you have been more comfortable 24:28 if your child was in a fornicating, 24:31 just shagging with a female, 24:33 with a male rather than a female? 24:36 And really I would have been more comfortable. 24:39 And He says, "But, Elijah, you see, 24:41 how wrong that thinking is, you know." 24:43 And He had to really, like Mary Lou says, 24:48 helped me to understand that Elijah, 24:50 the sin problem is not yours, 24:53 that's His job to work out the sin problem in her life. 24:57 And that was a relief to me, 24:58 that was like a burden taken off my shoulder 25:01 that I don't have to work out my children's sin problem. 25:06 And that really helped me 25:08 in my relationship with my child. 25:10 Yeah. Exactly. 25:11 You know I think its important that we really make it clear 25:15 that love can be demonstrated to somebody without approval. 25:21 And so that's what I think is so great about each one of you 25:24 that I see how much you love 25:27 and demonstrate that love to your children. 25:29 But you hold up a biblical principal which is not easy 25:33 when you see the world quickly adopting 25:35 to what the flesh desires or what we emotionally desire 25:39 that may not go in accordance with God's word. 25:44 So you find support today and for yourselves 25:48 and hope through what mean? 25:51 I find it through Sheltering Trees, 25:56 a support group we have on Facebook. 25:58 And let me say quickly, 25:59 that you can contact Sharri Scott or Mary Lou Erwin, 26:03 E-R-W-I-N on Facebook for a secret group 26:07 or a private group called Sheltering Trees. 26:09 Parents, please make yourself available for this support. 26:13 Go ahead. 26:15 And his words and His promises, you know. 26:19 People who have gone through it 26:21 and have come out on the other side, 26:23 so to speak, there is great hope. 26:26 Yeah. 26:28 And you have developed great friendships 26:29 with each other today. 26:32 Yes, and the word of God is an unending support for us. 26:36 So many promises. Yes, that we claim. 26:39 I find support in the fact 26:40 of Lord bringing to my intension, 26:42 He says, "Elijah, 26:44 how would you have liked to be an Adam 26:47 and to discover that your elder son 26:50 just killed your son Cain, or-- 26:54 and he had to deal with those things or-- 26:56 As a father. 26:58 As a father had to deal with those problematic situations. 27:01 Yeah. 27:02 I Thank you so much for each one of you 27:05 who have come and shared deep form your hearts today. 27:08 I know that it's not easy 27:10 but I know, and I believe that each of your children 27:14 as was in the case for me, I knew my parents loved me, 27:18 I had the opportunity 27:19 to take my gay friends to my parent's home. 27:23 They respected him, they always respected him, 27:25 and my parents said, oh, they are lovely people, 27:27 we really enjoyed having them. 27:29 And so I think that we can have a relationship with the people 27:32 without endorsing behavior 27:35 and still up hold the truth in love of Jesus Christ. 27:39 Amen. 27:40 I want to thank each, again, of the viewers today 27:42 for tuning in and watching Pure Choices. 27:46 And I just hope that you'll continue to view in 27:49 for these great inspiring stories. 27:51 Thank you so much. God bless each one of you. |
Revised 2016-06-09