Pure Choices

Intimacy and Prayer

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Brittany Hill-Morales (Host), Dajanae Anderson, Keith Hackle, Jr

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Series Code: PC

Program Code: PC000127A


00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material may be too candid
00:06 for younger children.
00:41 Hello, welcome to Pure Choices.
00:43 My name is Brittany Hill-Morales
00:44 and I am today's host.
00:46 Today we have a really great topic
00:49 that we're about to discuss.
00:50 It's about intimacy and prayer.
00:53 But before we begin this discussion,
00:55 let's have a prayer and talk to God about it.
00:58 Dear most heavenly Father, dear Lord,
01:01 as we're about to have another discussion
01:02 I pray dear Lord that You will be here with us
01:05 and you'll also be with the viewers at home,
01:07 in Jesus' name, amen.
01:09 Amen.
01:12 For today, we have two wonderful guests.
01:16 We have Dajanae Anderson.
01:18 She's a graduate student over in Texas.
01:20 And we also have Pastor Keith Hackle
01:23 who lives in Iowa with his family.
01:26 When I got married,
01:28 well, actually two days before I got married,
01:31 I went by this family's home
01:34 where my sister was doing my hair,
01:36 and we began having the conversation on sexuality,
01:39 and the fact that I was about to get married.
01:41 So, you know, sex, you probably have to have.
01:44 So like, "Do you have everything you need,
01:46 do you have all the information?"
01:47 I was like, "I think I do, maybe I'm not sure."
01:52 So they started giving me their words of wisdom.
01:56 And one of the first things they said was prayer.
02:00 And I said, "Prayer? Okay.
02:03 That I think, I think we can do that."
02:05 They are like, "No, no, no seriously, pray."
02:07 My sister and her husband were there
02:09 and they were like, pray, what are you talking about?
02:12 Because it sounds, you know, initially it sounds strange.
02:15 How can you integrate prayer into that moment?
02:20 What does that even look like?
02:22 Do you have to have a huge prayer session,
02:25 devotional time?
02:27 What is intimacy and prayer?
02:31 How about you guys? What was your experience?
02:34 I definitely believe that intimacy in prayer is something
02:39 that should happen in the context of marriage
02:42 that you should pray
02:44 while even during sex with your spouse.
02:49 There was something
02:50 that the Lord showed me in the Bible.
02:53 One passage is in John
02:56 and John is talking about how...
02:59 Well, Christ is talking about
03:03 how Christ yearns for us to be one with Him
03:06 just as He is one with the Father.
03:08 And in that holy, in that holy union,
03:12 the Lord showed me that
03:14 that is a part of just this oneness,
03:16 this conversation of oneness
03:18 put my mind back to Genesis, and how God said that
03:22 when man and woman come together,
03:23 there is a oneness that takes place in the sex act,
03:27 in the sex event so to speak.
03:30 And so within that it's like yes the Lord is...
03:34 The Lord being present in the...
03:36 And you're praying and being in awareness
03:40 of the presence of God
03:41 when during the sex act is definitely something
03:44 that I think we should do.
03:47 For me it was foreign, I'll be honest.
03:50 It wasn't until I was sitting in seminary
03:53 and a professor was presenting on this very topic
03:56 and she said, "You know sex and God and prayer
04:00 all go together."
04:02 And I'm sitting there and I'm trying to...
04:03 I'm grappling with that thing because for a long time
04:05 I thought it was just me and my wife.
04:07 I hadn't thought about the fact
04:08 that God sees and knows everything
04:10 and that this is a union between me and my wife.
04:13 So if we're doing something that pleases God
04:16 or that God has ordained
04:18 then it makes sense that He would be in the midst,
04:20 and so therefore we should bring Him in before,
04:25 during and even after the sex act.
04:28 Yeah. I know even when...
04:31 Like when I was in high school and my relationship with God,
04:34 I was 14 and so I was a freshman in high school.
04:38 And my relationship with God became very serious.
04:43 The Lord showed me that He was always there
04:48 that when I asked Him to be in my heart
04:52 and to live in me and to be present with me,
04:56 then that meant wherever I went,
04:59 God was there, God was in the midst with me.
05:01 And for me that wasn't a... That wasn't a bad thing.
05:06 I think that's the beauty that comes with
05:09 being in a relationship with God first
05:12 and then with another human being
05:14 because with God you realize that God sees your good times,
05:19 God sees your bad times, and God yearns for you still.
05:24 God desires a relationship with us still.
05:27 And that's what takes place in a marriage relationship.
05:30 Your spouse does not just see your good times
05:33 like the people who you interact with in public.
05:37 Your spouse sees when you do things
05:39 that aren't the smartest things in the world
05:41 or when you get upset,
05:43 your spouse sees all of that and yearns for you still.
05:47 And so that amount of... That to me is intimacy.
05:52 Just the desire to know my good and bad and still want me
05:56 is something that is extremely intimate.
06:00 And so that, that's where I see those two things
06:03 definitely come together, prayer and intimacy i.e. sex.
06:08 It's interesting that we would just briefly,
06:11 we would pray over our food.
06:13 We pray and ask God for travail and mercy...
06:16 We pray and ask God to protect our children, our family.
06:19 So we ask Him to be involved
06:21 in all of these other facets of our life.
06:23 But it's interesting that there's one area
06:24 where we're like,
06:26 "No, God can't be involved with that."
06:28 And I think that should be an area
06:30 where He's more involved
06:32 because then it limits the things
06:34 that we're willing to do.
06:36 Understanding that God is in the midst of this thing
06:39 and it becomes a holy act and not just some dirty act
06:44 that some individuals would classify it.
06:45 Right.
06:47 And as we keep on having this discussion
06:48 about intimacy and prayer,
06:50 some of them might be wondering,
06:51 "Wait, God doesn't cover his eyes during sex,
06:55 during sexual intercourse.
06:56 He doesn't give me that moment private,"
06:59 because like, Dajanae, as you were saying,
07:01 God is everywhere.
07:02 He sees everything, hears everything
07:05 that might have...
07:06 Kind of startled a few people that He hears everything
07:09 but He's always there.
07:11 So why does God not cover His eyes?
07:15 I really don't want Him to cover His eyes.
07:17 There may be something that happens
07:19 during that encounter
07:20 that I would really want God, if need it be,
07:22 need Him to be there and be on duty
07:24 to make sure everything was going well.
07:26 But it's interesting that we even have this ideology
07:30 and it reminds me of a story that I heard about nuns
07:33 who would go into the bathroom but not take their robe off
07:36 because they didn't want God to see them naked.
07:38 And as I heard that, I'm thinking and I'm saying,
07:40 "Well, wait a minute, God can see into the building,
07:43 so He can see through the walls of the building.
07:45 He can see through the walls into the bathroom,
07:47 but all of a sudden His ability stops
07:49 when it gets to you being naked.
07:51 And that doesn't make sense at all.
07:53 And so the same thing happens as it relates to God
07:56 seeing us in our intimate times,
07:59 Him seeing us in our low times, our emotional times
08:02 like we want Him to always be on guard,
08:06 be on duty and be there to be our God,
08:09 that's who He is.
08:11 Yeah, I know, I definitely agree with that.
08:13 I definitely agree with that. There is a...
08:17 There is a comfort that comes with knowing that God is there.
08:23 There is a...
08:25 Like you were saying,
08:26 if within the marriage bedroom say,
08:31 you know, say I do something wrong
08:33 or say my spouse does something wrong,
08:35 being able to pray about it afterwards
08:39 and saying, "Okay, Lord,
08:40 how can I better serve my spouse
08:43 in this sexual encounter
08:48 that I'm having with him?"
08:50 If God's not...
08:52 If God wasn't there to see what I did wrong,
08:54 you know, then how is God going to tell me
08:57 how to better be intimate with my partner.
09:00 And so thinking about sexuality
09:02 as another level of being intimate
09:04 is a better way to see it that if God,
09:08 you know, the Bible talks about Christ...
09:10 God knowing when you leave and when you come in,
09:13 no matter where you are, the presence of God is there.
09:16 And so, you know, like I've already stated there is...
09:20 there is a blessing in knowing
09:22 that God is there in the good and the bad there,
09:26 when I know what I'm doing and when I have no clue
09:30 especially when it comes to the marriage bedroom.
09:33 I would even add if you're having feelings
09:37 of not fully being there,
09:39 something else was on your mind,
09:41 and you're feeling remorseful, and you want to say,
09:44 "God, my spouse thinks I was there
09:46 but I wasn't there..."
09:47 To me that happens and you say,
09:49 "God, how do I...? Do I have this conversation?
09:51 Can you forgive me
09:52 for not taking this opportunity serious?"
09:55 People have different emotions, different feelings.
09:57 And if God wasn't there
09:59 it's kind of like you feel guilty for no reason...
10:02 Or you are going through these different feelings
10:04 and they're not justifiable
10:06 because God wasn't there
10:07 to comfort you through that time.
10:10 And knowing that God was there helps.
10:12 And that pulls into the other question
10:14 that some people are asking,
10:16 "Wait, you want me to pray
10:20 to God during sex?
10:23 What?
10:25 Isn't praying to God been a little bit over religious?
10:27 Aren't you guys doing the most?"
10:30 I wouldn't say so.
10:31 I wouldn't say as I do, I pray.
10:33 So, you know, I'll just say this isn't some...
10:35 This isn't like some abstract thing that,
10:38 you know, we're having a conversation about.
10:40 I believe all three of us pray.
10:43 I know I pray during
10:45 and there's a peace that I have,
10:48 an understanding that this is worship,
10:50 and understanding that this is approved by God
10:53 and understanding this that this act is sacred
10:57 that there is a...
10:58 It just adds that much more rich,
11:02 richness to the event that,
11:05 that no, the whole world doesn't see.
11:09 But there are holy angels, pure and undefiled
11:13 that God himself approves of what I'm doing right now
11:17 and is actually empowering the moment.
11:22 And I don't, I don't see, I don't,
11:24 I don't see anything wrong with it.
11:26 Me either. I fully agree with you.
11:29 And we ask God, right?
11:31 So before when we get married, before we get married
11:33 God blessed us as union.
11:34 We say, "I do, God bless this union."
11:37 And then there become certain areas of our marriage
11:40 that we stop taking to God.
11:41 Now we've asked Him to bless this union, right?
11:44 And so we need to ask Him to be in all facets of this thing.
11:48 When we join together
11:50 and we're having the sexual experience,
11:52 sexual encounter,
11:53 we need God for you to direct us,
11:55 make sure that we don't go outside of the bounds
11:58 where we should.
11:59 Make sure we're not bringing in ideologies or practices
12:02 that don't glorify you.
12:04 I think the word that you used worship is vitally important.
12:08 If we look at it as a form of worship,
12:11 then that makes it more special.
12:13 And so if I'm worshipping,
12:15 then I definitely want God to be a part of this thing.
12:18 I definitely need you to come in and to direct
12:20 and to give us guidance as we go through this thing
12:23 because we don't know everything.
12:26 And we want to make sure that this is a mutual experience
12:28 that we're both happy,
12:31 that we're both being fulfilled.
12:32 And if that's not taking place,
12:33 then does that really necessarily please God?
12:36 Right. Right.
12:38 And there is...
12:39 With the conversation of the reality
12:42 that when you marry your spouse,
12:44 you do not know your spouse
12:45 as well as God knows your spouse.
12:47 That's just a reality and to...
12:52 For those who may not be married,
12:54 it is not automatic
12:58 that you receive pleasure right away
13:00 if, you know, I'm saying that way,
13:02 then not everyone receives
13:04 the maximum amount of pleasure in the bedroom.
13:09 But there are some...
13:10 There are little things that you have to know
13:12 what to do in order for your spouse
13:15 to receive the maximum amount of pleasure.
13:17 And who better to consult with than God
13:22 because sometimes your spouse may not be able to tell you,
13:25 you know, they may try but to be...
13:29 Me personally and I'm not perfect in it.
13:32 But me personally,
13:33 when I am in conversations with people,
13:37 especially when it's maybe like in a counseling session
13:40 where I'm trying to help them, I'm trying to serve them,
13:43 then I am processing what they're saying to me,
13:46 the information that they are giving,
13:48 but I am still, but I'm also praying in my mind.
13:52 So when we say prayer, that's not necessarily
13:54 while you're in the act,
13:56 you're out loud talking to God like, you know,
13:58 and maybe some people do that,
14:00 but I don't quite see how that works.
14:02 When I say I pray during intimacy with my husband,
14:07 it is in my mind, it's not out loud,
14:11 yes Lord, yes Jesus,
14:13 I need you to tell me out loud,
14:15 like no, no, no, I don't do that.
14:17 But there's a...
14:19 But there's a, "Oh," like, "Lord, you're here.
14:21 You're watching." Or, "Okay, Lord..."
14:23 You know, just different things.
14:25 So when you're that that it makes...
14:29 I'm just trying to say it makes,
14:31 it makes sense to pray.
14:33 And I believe that I'm just repeating the reality
14:36 that it just as I...
14:39 When I'm trying to help somebody,
14:40 I'm asking for the spirit of the Lord
14:43 to give me wisdom from on high as I'm serving my husband,
14:47 I'm also in the marriage bedroom
14:49 and as my husband is serving me, he prays too.
14:52 We are both in tune with God's presence in the act
14:59 and it works for us.
15:01 Yes.
15:03 And I want to add a little more to that.
15:05 Keith was talking a little bit earlier
15:07 about the importance of prayer as we're discussing
15:11 and it reminded me of the first year of my marriage
15:16 with my husband.
15:18 The couple had told us,
15:19 "You don't have to do long extended prayers,
15:22 just simply say, Holy Spirit be with us
15:25 as we're about to do this."
15:27 And they said the benefit of it was because it helps you
15:33 to focus on that moment and fully being there.
15:38 I'm a recovering pornographic addict
15:41 and I've been celibate for many years now.
15:45 But when I got married, one of the problems
15:50 and I've spoken to other female addicts,
15:53 one of the problems is images kind of come back to your mind.
15:56 And when I'm with my spouse,
15:59 I don't want to think about anything else but him.
16:01 I don't want anything else coming through my mind.
16:03 It ruins our connection. It makes me not be fully fair.
16:08 It's not fair to him.
16:10 I feel guilty, remorseful all these different things.
16:13 So during that time
16:15 which is the most intimate moment with my spouse
16:20 where we truly know each other and become one,
16:24 I say a prayer and say, "Dear Lord,
16:28 I can't do a 20 minute prayer with you right now.
16:31 But you know my history, you know how far I've come.
16:35 In this moment,
16:36 don't let this moment be robbed by my past,
16:39 allow me to be fully here so I can be with my husband..."
16:44 Because sexuality
16:45 and that kind of falls into the other part,
16:46 the importance and the essence of praying, it's not just sex.
16:50 We're not just doing an act.
16:52 There are so many things that's happening...
16:54 And for me, this is just me personally.
16:58 I knew that having sex,
17:00 I could be able to produce children.
17:01 It was just a fact that I accepted
17:03 before I got married.
17:05 And I didn't want the moment my daughter was conceived,
17:10 if I had a son, I have a daughter,
17:11 for my daughter to be conceived during a moment
17:14 where my mind was somewhere else.
17:17 I wanted to know that I was fully fair with my husband
17:22 that we were fully connected that she was created in love,
17:27 in complete love with God's blessing there seem.
17:30 "Yes, now is the time for you to be pregnant
17:33 and to produce this child."
17:35 I didn't want some crazy people that I saw 10, 15 years ago
17:40 to be in that moment.
17:42 I only wanted God and my spouse in that moment with me.
17:46 And that's why I pray,
17:48 that's why I continue to pray...
17:50 After that first year,
17:51 I haven't really had that many thoughts
17:53 but the devil can be tricky sometimes.
17:55 But that's how I feel even now. My baby is nine months.
17:59 You know, I know with sex you can get pregnant
18:02 and that's what I pray, "Lord, I'm angry at him.
18:06 Help me to be in the mentality that I need to be in
18:09 because I want us to be connected."
18:11 "Because I understand other things can happen too."
18:14 "I want that union, I want that bond."
18:17 Is there any other reasons why it's important
18:19 or essential for us to pray during intimacy?
18:21 I would just...
18:24 I appreciate your transparency.
18:29 I appreciate your transparency
18:30 for any of the viewers out there to know
18:34 that if you have fallen into any sexual thing
18:38 that you can still pray and come before God
18:43 when you are having intimacy with your spouse
18:46 that that is possible.
18:48 I, you know, I too before marrying my husband,
18:52 years before marrying my husband,
18:54 I did have intercourse with another man.
18:57 And for me when it took place most of the time I would cry
19:03 before it was over
19:04 because of the evil presence that I felt that was there.
19:09 Other times I would cry
19:11 because I would hear the voice of the Lord
19:13 as I'm fighting in my own mind in the act
19:16 with this person I'm not supposed to be with.
19:18 I would hear God saying to me,
19:21 I love you and it would mess me up
19:24 like it would all the way messed me up
19:28 because I'm like, "You see this evil
19:31 that I'm doing before you."
19:33 I'm having a conversation asking you to leave me alone
19:36 so that I can do what I want to do.
19:39 And what's your response to me is that you love me
19:43 that's crazy like, that's crazy,
19:46 and for me I know this is God because this is not something
19:51 that I've necessarily experienced
19:52 in another human being to be loved this way.
19:56 And so when...
19:58 So now that I'm in a marriage that God approves of
20:03 and as I've shared,
20:07 as I've shared with you before there...
20:11 My husband has also was celibate 10 years
20:14 before we got married.
20:16 And so the reality of accepting God is something
20:20 that we're accepting God in that moment is something
20:23 that we're excited to do
20:25 because we no longer
20:27 are participating in this shamefully
20:30 but in rejoice that all of heaven is rejoicing
20:34 as we are exhibiting the unity
20:37 that Christ wants to have with us.
20:39 I think it's a beautiful thing.
20:42 And I appreciate both of the testimonies.
20:45 And it just brings back or makes more plain the text
20:50 that says pray without ceasing.
20:51 Because you can think that I'm entering into this thing
20:53 and this is something
20:54 that God shouldn't be a part of, right?
20:56 But we need God to be there every single minute
20:59 of every single day.
21:01 And so just trusting in Him
21:03 and asking Him to guide us, to direct us.
21:06 As you asked, what are some other areas
21:08 or some other reasons why we should pray.
21:10 Let's say a partner is having some discomfort
21:13 or something of that nature, right?
21:15 And so, God, I need You to help us to know what to do.
21:18 Maybe we should abstain for a moment
21:20 while this thing is getting checked out.
21:21 And so now especially as a male
21:25 and I'm not comparing sex drives or anything like that,
21:27 I'm just saying if the woman,
21:29 if the wife is going and getting checked out
21:32 and things like that or the doctor says,
21:33 "Listen for a period of time you all need to..."
21:35 I need now to...
21:37 Lord, for you to give me the strength to support my wife
21:41 as we're going through this thing,
21:42 to let her know I still love her unconditionally.
21:45 And then when we come back together to make sure
21:48 that we implement the steps that don't cause us to regress
21:51 but we continue to move forward.
21:53 So it's always just asking God to guide that whole process.
21:57 And we want Him to be there.
21:58 We need Him to be there
21:59 in order for it to be pleasing to Him.
22:01 Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
22:03 And I think another factor,
22:05 another beauty element of praying is
22:08 it recognizes that your spouse is a gift.
22:11 That when you're engaging in intercourse,
22:13 you're not just in...
22:15 You're not just doing this with anybody.
22:16 When you're saying this prayer, you're recognizing
22:18 that your spouse is important like you always say things
22:21 like what if they're in pain,
22:23 what if they're having problems.
22:24 They're saying, "Lord, help me with this gift
22:27 that you have given to me."
22:29 "I love this person, I care about this person,
22:31 I want the best for them.
22:33 So help me to be what you want me to be for this person
22:36 because what if this person had maybe abuse history."
22:41 "We're about to enter this moment.
22:43 It could make a trigger for them."
22:44 It could bother them emotionally, physically,
22:47 it could, you know, mess them up.
22:49 So dear Lord, help them in this moment
22:51 to not think about what happened to them
22:53 when they were 10,
22:54 to be able to interact with me right now
22:56 and to feel loved by me and to know
22:58 that I am there for them in the deepest way
23:03 that the other person stole from them,
23:06 that I am here to give what was taken in a way
23:10 that is bringing restoration and healing
23:13 because that is extremely important.
23:17 Your spouse is a gift, your spouse is feeling hurt,
23:21 emotional pain to know that even though they are
23:25 as I might say crazy,
23:27 some may think like our spouses are crazy,
23:29 they do some ridiculous stuff.
23:33 But despite that ridiculous stuff,
23:34 I still want you,
23:35 and I'm going to pray to God for your benefit.
23:38 I'm not going to be selfish. I want you to be blessed too.
23:41 Right. There is a stewardship.
23:44 There's definitely a stewardship
23:46 that takes place when you enter into a marriage.
23:50 You are caring for a daughter
23:53 and, you know, for the men you're caring for your wife,
23:56 you're caring for a daughter of God.
23:59 For my husband, I'm caring for a son of God.
24:03 And so there is a...
24:05 There's a video that was circulating
24:07 while I was at Oakwood in my undergrad,
24:09 a Phillip link I think put it together.
24:12 I don't remember who the guy is.
24:13 I was actually speaking and gave his testimony.
24:16 But in his testimony he was saying
24:18 how he was praying for his wife.
24:20 And there is this particular woman
24:22 that he wanted to marry.
24:23 And so he was praying to God
24:26 and he was saying that, "God I want her, I want her.
24:28 Please give her to me."
24:29 And he said that he believed that God said to him,
24:32 "You will never have her because she belongs to me."
24:35 And so there is this understanding
24:37 that he had that God wasn't saying
24:39 you will never be in a relationship with her.
24:41 God was saying that she is my daughter.
24:44 And so if I allow you to enter into a covenant with her,
24:48 understand that I am also involved in this
24:51 and that you have to report to me.
24:54 And so it's another,
24:56 another connective piece in that
24:58 is that you take the story of Moses.
25:01 Moses was a shepherd of another man's flock,
25:05 Jethro, his father-in-law.
25:07 He was a shepherd of another man's flock
25:09 and because he was a faithful shepherd
25:12 of another man's flock, God then gave him His flock.
25:16 God gave him Israel to take care of through the wilderness.
25:21 And so understanding this gospel message
25:23 that is so prevalent within a marriage relationship,
25:26 and is so prevalent within the act of sex
25:29 that when you are engaging,
25:32 this is not just for your own enjoyment
25:34 but that you are caring for this other person,
25:38 you are a shepherd of another man's child.
25:42 And so you are why not and it's...
25:45 But this, but this other man God,
25:50 God is not as limited as human beings are.
25:55 And so it's not as perverted
25:58 as it may be if the actual father,
26:02 the biological father was in the room, right?
26:05 But there is this God that understands sexuality
26:08 far better than I do.
26:09 And so why not invite Him.
26:11 Yes. Yes.
26:12 Definitely, definitely, definitely.
26:16 Going back to that question of, can you overdo it?
26:22 Is there a way that we can all fully bring religious prayers
26:27 into our sexuality?
26:31 Is there a line that should not be crossed?
26:34 And I think one thing that we need to go to
26:38 when we're asking this question
26:39 is what is my relationship with God?
26:41 How do I connect with Him?
26:44 And I believe God will let you know
26:47 if you're pushing the boundaries.
26:49 If you're saying stuff that you're not supposed to say.
26:52 If you're praying something towards your spouse
26:54 in a negative way, God will rebuke you
26:56 and say, "You need to stop doing what you're doing."
27:00 "This is not respecting me and praying to me."
27:03 So we're about to finish the discussion
27:05 but we want you to keep on having the discussion.
27:09 How about you?
27:11 Do you believe in prayer in your intimacy?
27:14 And how can you incorporate it?
27:16 How can you use it to enhance your relationship
27:19 with your spouse?
27:22 My husband and I, we need Jesus to guide us
27:26 and to lead us in every facet of our lives
27:30 especially in our sexual relationship.
27:33 The Bible says in Luke 6:39, "Can the blind lead the blind?
27:39 Will they not both fall into a pit?"
27:42 So yes, we need to be praying to God to help us
27:45 in this particular area.
27:47 And another thing if God is with us,
27:49 who can be against us.
27:51 Thank you for joining us today,
27:53 and please remember to make pure choices.
27:55 Yes.


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Revised 2017-08-14