Participants: Brittany Hill-Morales (Host), Dajanae Anderson, Keith Hackle, Jr
Series Code: PC
Program Code: PC000127A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues.
00:03 Parents are cautioned that some material may be too candid 00:06 for younger children. 00:41 Hello, welcome to Pure Choices. 00:43 My name is Brittany Hill-Morales 00:44 and I am today's host. 00:46 Today we have a really great topic 00:49 that we're about to discuss. 00:50 It's about intimacy and prayer. 00:53 But before we begin this discussion, 00:55 let's have a prayer and talk to God about it. 00:58 Dear most heavenly Father, dear Lord, 01:01 as we're about to have another discussion 01:02 I pray dear Lord that You will be here with us 01:05 and you'll also be with the viewers at home, 01:07 in Jesus' name, amen. 01:09 Amen. 01:12 For today, we have two wonderful guests. 01:16 We have Dajanae Anderson. 01:18 She's a graduate student over in Texas. 01:20 And we also have Pastor Keith Hackle 01:23 who lives in Iowa with his family. 01:26 When I got married, 01:28 well, actually two days before I got married, 01:31 I went by this family's home 01:34 where my sister was doing my hair, 01:36 and we began having the conversation on sexuality, 01:39 and the fact that I was about to get married. 01:41 So, you know, sex, you probably have to have. 01:44 So like, "Do you have everything you need, 01:46 do you have all the information?" 01:47 I was like, "I think I do, maybe I'm not sure." 01:52 So they started giving me their words of wisdom. 01:56 And one of the first things they said was prayer. 02:00 And I said, "Prayer? Okay. 02:03 That I think, I think we can do that." 02:05 They are like, "No, no, no seriously, pray." 02:07 My sister and her husband were there 02:09 and they were like, pray, what are you talking about? 02:12 Because it sounds, you know, initially it sounds strange. 02:15 How can you integrate prayer into that moment? 02:20 What does that even look like? 02:22 Do you have to have a huge prayer session, 02:25 devotional time? 02:27 What is intimacy and prayer? 02:31 How about you guys? What was your experience? 02:34 I definitely believe that intimacy in prayer is something 02:39 that should happen in the context of marriage 02:42 that you should pray 02:44 while even during sex with your spouse. 02:49 There was something 02:50 that the Lord showed me in the Bible. 02:53 One passage is in John 02:56 and John is talking about how... 02:59 Well, Christ is talking about 03:03 how Christ yearns for us to be one with Him 03:06 just as He is one with the Father. 03:08 And in that holy, in that holy union, 03:12 the Lord showed me that 03:14 that is a part of just this oneness, 03:16 this conversation of oneness 03:18 put my mind back to Genesis, and how God said that 03:22 when man and woman come together, 03:23 there is a oneness that takes place in the sex act, 03:27 in the sex event so to speak. 03:30 And so within that it's like yes the Lord is... 03:34 The Lord being present in the... 03:36 And you're praying and being in awareness 03:40 of the presence of God 03:41 when during the sex act is definitely something 03:44 that I think we should do. 03:47 For me it was foreign, I'll be honest. 03:50 It wasn't until I was sitting in seminary 03:53 and a professor was presenting on this very topic 03:56 and she said, "You know sex and God and prayer 04:00 all go together." 04:02 And I'm sitting there and I'm trying to... 04:03 I'm grappling with that thing because for a long time 04:05 I thought it was just me and my wife. 04:07 I hadn't thought about the fact 04:08 that God sees and knows everything 04:10 and that this is a union between me and my wife. 04:13 So if we're doing something that pleases God 04:16 or that God has ordained 04:18 then it makes sense that He would be in the midst, 04:20 and so therefore we should bring Him in before, 04:25 during and even after the sex act. 04:28 Yeah. I know even when... 04:31 Like when I was in high school and my relationship with God, 04:34 I was 14 and so I was a freshman in high school. 04:38 And my relationship with God became very serious. 04:43 The Lord showed me that He was always there 04:48 that when I asked Him to be in my heart 04:52 and to live in me and to be present with me, 04:56 then that meant wherever I went, 04:59 God was there, God was in the midst with me. 05:01 And for me that wasn't a... That wasn't a bad thing. 05:06 I think that's the beauty that comes with 05:09 being in a relationship with God first 05:12 and then with another human being 05:14 because with God you realize that God sees your good times, 05:19 God sees your bad times, and God yearns for you still. 05:24 God desires a relationship with us still. 05:27 And that's what takes place in a marriage relationship. 05:30 Your spouse does not just see your good times 05:33 like the people who you interact with in public. 05:37 Your spouse sees when you do things 05:39 that aren't the smartest things in the world 05:41 or when you get upset, 05:43 your spouse sees all of that and yearns for you still. 05:47 And so that amount of... That to me is intimacy. 05:52 Just the desire to know my good and bad and still want me 05:56 is something that is extremely intimate. 06:00 And so that, that's where I see those two things 06:03 definitely come together, prayer and intimacy i.e. sex. 06:08 It's interesting that we would just briefly, 06:11 we would pray over our food. 06:13 We pray and ask God for travail and mercy... 06:16 We pray and ask God to protect our children, our family. 06:19 So we ask Him to be involved 06:21 in all of these other facets of our life. 06:23 But it's interesting that there's one area 06:24 where we're like, 06:26 "No, God can't be involved with that." 06:28 And I think that should be an area 06:30 where He's more involved 06:32 because then it limits the things 06:34 that we're willing to do. 06:36 Understanding that God is in the midst of this thing 06:39 and it becomes a holy act and not just some dirty act 06:44 that some individuals would classify it. 06:45 Right. 06:47 And as we keep on having this discussion 06:48 about intimacy and prayer, 06:50 some of them might be wondering, 06:51 "Wait, God doesn't cover his eyes during sex, 06:55 during sexual intercourse. 06:56 He doesn't give me that moment private," 06:59 because like, Dajanae, as you were saying, 07:01 God is everywhere. 07:02 He sees everything, hears everything 07:05 that might have... 07:06 Kind of startled a few people that He hears everything 07:09 but He's always there. 07:11 So why does God not cover His eyes? 07:15 I really don't want Him to cover His eyes. 07:17 There may be something that happens 07:19 during that encounter 07:20 that I would really want God, if need it be, 07:22 need Him to be there and be on duty 07:24 to make sure everything was going well. 07:26 But it's interesting that we even have this ideology 07:30 and it reminds me of a story that I heard about nuns 07:33 who would go into the bathroom but not take their robe off 07:36 because they didn't want God to see them naked. 07:38 And as I heard that, I'm thinking and I'm saying, 07:40 "Well, wait a minute, God can see into the building, 07:43 so He can see through the walls of the building. 07:45 He can see through the walls into the bathroom, 07:47 but all of a sudden His ability stops 07:49 when it gets to you being naked. 07:51 And that doesn't make sense at all. 07:53 And so the same thing happens as it relates to God 07:56 seeing us in our intimate times, 07:59 Him seeing us in our low times, our emotional times 08:02 like we want Him to always be on guard, 08:06 be on duty and be there to be our God, 08:09 that's who He is. 08:11 Yeah, I know, I definitely agree with that. 08:13 I definitely agree with that. There is a... 08:17 There is a comfort that comes with knowing that God is there. 08:23 There is a... 08:25 Like you were saying, 08:26 if within the marriage bedroom say, 08:31 you know, say I do something wrong 08:33 or say my spouse does something wrong, 08:35 being able to pray about it afterwards 08:39 and saying, "Okay, Lord, 08:40 how can I better serve my spouse 08:43 in this sexual encounter 08:48 that I'm having with him?" 08:50 If God's not... 08:52 If God wasn't there to see what I did wrong, 08:54 you know, then how is God going to tell me 08:57 how to better be intimate with my partner. 09:00 And so thinking about sexuality 09:02 as another level of being intimate 09:04 is a better way to see it that if God, 09:08 you know, the Bible talks about Christ... 09:10 God knowing when you leave and when you come in, 09:13 no matter where you are, the presence of God is there. 09:16 And so, you know, like I've already stated there is... 09:20 there is a blessing in knowing 09:22 that God is there in the good and the bad there, 09:26 when I know what I'm doing and when I have no clue 09:30 especially when it comes to the marriage bedroom. 09:33 I would even add if you're having feelings 09:37 of not fully being there, 09:39 something else was on your mind, 09:41 and you're feeling remorseful, and you want to say, 09:44 "God, my spouse thinks I was there 09:46 but I wasn't there..." 09:47 To me that happens and you say, 09:49 "God, how do I...? Do I have this conversation? 09:51 Can you forgive me 09:52 for not taking this opportunity serious?" 09:55 People have different emotions, different feelings. 09:57 And if God wasn't there 09:59 it's kind of like you feel guilty for no reason... 10:02 Or you are going through these different feelings 10:04 and they're not justifiable 10:06 because God wasn't there 10:07 to comfort you through that time. 10:10 And knowing that God was there helps. 10:12 And that pulls into the other question 10:14 that some people are asking, 10:16 "Wait, you want me to pray 10:20 to God during sex? 10:23 What? 10:25 Isn't praying to God been a little bit over religious? 10:27 Aren't you guys doing the most?" 10:30 I wouldn't say so. 10:31 I wouldn't say as I do, I pray. 10:33 So, you know, I'll just say this isn't some... 10:35 This isn't like some abstract thing that, 10:38 you know, we're having a conversation about. 10:40 I believe all three of us pray. 10:43 I know I pray during 10:45 and there's a peace that I have, 10:48 an understanding that this is worship, 10:50 and understanding that this is approved by God 10:53 and understanding this that this act is sacred 10:57 that there is a... 10:58 It just adds that much more rich, 11:02 richness to the event that, 11:05 that no, the whole world doesn't see. 11:09 But there are holy angels, pure and undefiled 11:13 that God himself approves of what I'm doing right now 11:17 and is actually empowering the moment. 11:22 And I don't, I don't see, I don't, 11:24 I don't see anything wrong with it. 11:26 Me either. I fully agree with you. 11:29 And we ask God, right? 11:31 So before when we get married, before we get married 11:33 God blessed us as union. 11:34 We say, "I do, God bless this union." 11:37 And then there become certain areas of our marriage 11:40 that we stop taking to God. 11:41 Now we've asked Him to bless this union, right? 11:44 And so we need to ask Him to be in all facets of this thing. 11:48 When we join together 11:50 and we're having the sexual experience, 11:52 sexual encounter, 11:53 we need God for you to direct us, 11:55 make sure that we don't go outside of the bounds 11:58 where we should. 11:59 Make sure we're not bringing in ideologies or practices 12:02 that don't glorify you. 12:04 I think the word that you used worship is vitally important. 12:08 If we look at it as a form of worship, 12:11 then that makes it more special. 12:13 And so if I'm worshipping, 12:15 then I definitely want God to be a part of this thing. 12:18 I definitely need you to come in and to direct 12:20 and to give us guidance as we go through this thing 12:23 because we don't know everything. 12:26 And we want to make sure that this is a mutual experience 12:28 that we're both happy, 12:31 that we're both being fulfilled. 12:32 And if that's not taking place, 12:33 then does that really necessarily please God? 12:36 Right. Right. 12:38 And there is... 12:39 With the conversation of the reality 12:42 that when you marry your spouse, 12:44 you do not know your spouse 12:45 as well as God knows your spouse. 12:47 That's just a reality and to... 12:52 For those who may not be married, 12:54 it is not automatic 12:58 that you receive pleasure right away 13:00 if, you know, I'm saying that way, 13:02 then not everyone receives 13:04 the maximum amount of pleasure in the bedroom. 13:09 But there are some... 13:10 There are little things that you have to know 13:12 what to do in order for your spouse 13:15 to receive the maximum amount of pleasure. 13:17 And who better to consult with than God 13:22 because sometimes your spouse may not be able to tell you, 13:25 you know, they may try but to be... 13:29 Me personally and I'm not perfect in it. 13:32 But me personally, 13:33 when I am in conversations with people, 13:37 especially when it's maybe like in a counseling session 13:40 where I'm trying to help them, I'm trying to serve them, 13:43 then I am processing what they're saying to me, 13:46 the information that they are giving, 13:48 but I am still, but I'm also praying in my mind. 13:52 So when we say prayer, that's not necessarily 13:54 while you're in the act, 13:56 you're out loud talking to God like, you know, 13:58 and maybe some people do that, 14:00 but I don't quite see how that works. 14:02 When I say I pray during intimacy with my husband, 14:07 it is in my mind, it's not out loud, 14:11 yes Lord, yes Jesus, 14:13 I need you to tell me out loud, 14:15 like no, no, no, I don't do that. 14:17 But there's a... 14:19 But there's a, "Oh," like, "Lord, you're here. 14:21 You're watching." Or, "Okay, Lord..." 14:23 You know, just different things. 14:25 So when you're that that it makes... 14:29 I'm just trying to say it makes, 14:31 it makes sense to pray. 14:33 And I believe that I'm just repeating the reality 14:36 that it just as I... 14:39 When I'm trying to help somebody, 14:40 I'm asking for the spirit of the Lord 14:43 to give me wisdom from on high as I'm serving my husband, 14:47 I'm also in the marriage bedroom 14:49 and as my husband is serving me, he prays too. 14:52 We are both in tune with God's presence in the act 14:59 and it works for us. 15:01 Yes. 15:03 And I want to add a little more to that. 15:05 Keith was talking a little bit earlier 15:07 about the importance of prayer as we're discussing 15:11 and it reminded me of the first year of my marriage 15:16 with my husband. 15:18 The couple had told us, 15:19 "You don't have to do long extended prayers, 15:22 just simply say, Holy Spirit be with us 15:25 as we're about to do this." 15:27 And they said the benefit of it was because it helps you 15:33 to focus on that moment and fully being there. 15:38 I'm a recovering pornographic addict 15:41 and I've been celibate for many years now. 15:45 But when I got married, one of the problems 15:50 and I've spoken to other female addicts, 15:53 one of the problems is images kind of come back to your mind. 15:56 And when I'm with my spouse, 15:59 I don't want to think about anything else but him. 16:01 I don't want anything else coming through my mind. 16:03 It ruins our connection. It makes me not be fully fair. 16:08 It's not fair to him. 16:10 I feel guilty, remorseful all these different things. 16:13 So during that time 16:15 which is the most intimate moment with my spouse 16:20 where we truly know each other and become one, 16:24 I say a prayer and say, "Dear Lord, 16:28 I can't do a 20 minute prayer with you right now. 16:31 But you know my history, you know how far I've come. 16:35 In this moment, 16:36 don't let this moment be robbed by my past, 16:39 allow me to be fully here so I can be with my husband..." 16:44 Because sexuality 16:45 and that kind of falls into the other part, 16:46 the importance and the essence of praying, it's not just sex. 16:50 We're not just doing an act. 16:52 There are so many things that's happening... 16:54 And for me, this is just me personally. 16:58 I knew that having sex, 17:00 I could be able to produce children. 17:01 It was just a fact that I accepted 17:03 before I got married. 17:05 And I didn't want the moment my daughter was conceived, 17:10 if I had a son, I have a daughter, 17:11 for my daughter to be conceived during a moment 17:14 where my mind was somewhere else. 17:17 I wanted to know that I was fully fair with my husband 17:22 that we were fully connected that she was created in love, 17:27 in complete love with God's blessing there seem. 17:30 "Yes, now is the time for you to be pregnant 17:33 and to produce this child." 17:35 I didn't want some crazy people that I saw 10, 15 years ago 17:40 to be in that moment. 17:42 I only wanted God and my spouse in that moment with me. 17:46 And that's why I pray, 17:48 that's why I continue to pray... 17:50 After that first year, 17:51 I haven't really had that many thoughts 17:53 but the devil can be tricky sometimes. 17:55 But that's how I feel even now. My baby is nine months. 17:59 You know, I know with sex you can get pregnant 18:02 and that's what I pray, "Lord, I'm angry at him. 18:06 Help me to be in the mentality that I need to be in 18:09 because I want us to be connected." 18:11 "Because I understand other things can happen too." 18:14 "I want that union, I want that bond." 18:17 Is there any other reasons why it's important 18:19 or essential for us to pray during intimacy? 18:21 I would just... 18:24 I appreciate your transparency. 18:29 I appreciate your transparency 18:30 for any of the viewers out there to know 18:34 that if you have fallen into any sexual thing 18:38 that you can still pray and come before God 18:43 when you are having intimacy with your spouse 18:46 that that is possible. 18:48 I, you know, I too before marrying my husband, 18:52 years before marrying my husband, 18:54 I did have intercourse with another man. 18:57 And for me when it took place most of the time I would cry 19:03 before it was over 19:04 because of the evil presence that I felt that was there. 19:09 Other times I would cry 19:11 because I would hear the voice of the Lord 19:13 as I'm fighting in my own mind in the act 19:16 with this person I'm not supposed to be with. 19:18 I would hear God saying to me, 19:21 I love you and it would mess me up 19:24 like it would all the way messed me up 19:28 because I'm like, "You see this evil 19:31 that I'm doing before you." 19:33 I'm having a conversation asking you to leave me alone 19:36 so that I can do what I want to do. 19:39 And what's your response to me is that you love me 19:43 that's crazy like, that's crazy, 19:46 and for me I know this is God because this is not something 19:51 that I've necessarily experienced 19:52 in another human being to be loved this way. 19:56 And so when... 19:58 So now that I'm in a marriage that God approves of 20:03 and as I've shared, 20:07 as I've shared with you before there... 20:11 My husband has also was celibate 10 years 20:14 before we got married. 20:16 And so the reality of accepting God is something 20:20 that we're accepting God in that moment is something 20:23 that we're excited to do 20:25 because we no longer 20:27 are participating in this shamefully 20:30 but in rejoice that all of heaven is rejoicing 20:34 as we are exhibiting the unity 20:37 that Christ wants to have with us. 20:39 I think it's a beautiful thing. 20:42 And I appreciate both of the testimonies. 20:45 And it just brings back or makes more plain the text 20:50 that says pray without ceasing. 20:51 Because you can think that I'm entering into this thing 20:53 and this is something 20:54 that God shouldn't be a part of, right? 20:56 But we need God to be there every single minute 20:59 of every single day. 21:01 And so just trusting in Him 21:03 and asking Him to guide us, to direct us. 21:06 As you asked, what are some other areas 21:08 or some other reasons why we should pray. 21:10 Let's say a partner is having some discomfort 21:13 or something of that nature, right? 21:15 And so, God, I need You to help us to know what to do. 21:18 Maybe we should abstain for a moment 21:20 while this thing is getting checked out. 21:21 And so now especially as a male 21:25 and I'm not comparing sex drives or anything like that, 21:27 I'm just saying if the woman, 21:29 if the wife is going and getting checked out 21:32 and things like that or the doctor says, 21:33 "Listen for a period of time you all need to..." 21:35 I need now to... 21:37 Lord, for you to give me the strength to support my wife 21:41 as we're going through this thing, 21:42 to let her know I still love her unconditionally. 21:45 And then when we come back together to make sure 21:48 that we implement the steps that don't cause us to regress 21:51 but we continue to move forward. 21:53 So it's always just asking God to guide that whole process. 21:57 And we want Him to be there. 21:58 We need Him to be there 21:59 in order for it to be pleasing to Him. 22:01 Yeah, I agree. Yeah. 22:03 And I think another factor, 22:05 another beauty element of praying is 22:08 it recognizes that your spouse is a gift. 22:11 That when you're engaging in intercourse, 22:13 you're not just in... 22:15 You're not just doing this with anybody. 22:16 When you're saying this prayer, you're recognizing 22:18 that your spouse is important like you always say things 22:21 like what if they're in pain, 22:23 what if they're having problems. 22:24 They're saying, "Lord, help me with this gift 22:27 that you have given to me." 22:29 "I love this person, I care about this person, 22:31 I want the best for them. 22:33 So help me to be what you want me to be for this person 22:36 because what if this person had maybe abuse history." 22:41 "We're about to enter this moment. 22:43 It could make a trigger for them." 22:44 It could bother them emotionally, physically, 22:47 it could, you know, mess them up. 22:49 So dear Lord, help them in this moment 22:51 to not think about what happened to them 22:53 when they were 10, 22:54 to be able to interact with me right now 22:56 and to feel loved by me and to know 22:58 that I am there for them in the deepest way 23:03 that the other person stole from them, 23:06 that I am here to give what was taken in a way 23:10 that is bringing restoration and healing 23:13 because that is extremely important. 23:17 Your spouse is a gift, your spouse is feeling hurt, 23:21 emotional pain to know that even though they are 23:25 as I might say crazy, 23:27 some may think like our spouses are crazy, 23:29 they do some ridiculous stuff. 23:33 But despite that ridiculous stuff, 23:34 I still want you, 23:35 and I'm going to pray to God for your benefit. 23:38 I'm not going to be selfish. I want you to be blessed too. 23:41 Right. There is a stewardship. 23:44 There's definitely a stewardship 23:46 that takes place when you enter into a marriage. 23:50 You are caring for a daughter 23:53 and, you know, for the men you're caring for your wife, 23:56 you're caring for a daughter of God. 23:59 For my husband, I'm caring for a son of God. 24:03 And so there is a... 24:05 There's a video that was circulating 24:07 while I was at Oakwood in my undergrad, 24:09 a Phillip link I think put it together. 24:12 I don't remember who the guy is. 24:13 I was actually speaking and gave his testimony. 24:16 But in his testimony he was saying 24:18 how he was praying for his wife. 24:20 And there is this particular woman 24:22 that he wanted to marry. 24:23 And so he was praying to God 24:26 and he was saying that, "God I want her, I want her. 24:28 Please give her to me." 24:29 And he said that he believed that God said to him, 24:32 "You will never have her because she belongs to me." 24:35 And so there is this understanding 24:37 that he had that God wasn't saying 24:39 you will never be in a relationship with her. 24:41 God was saying that she is my daughter. 24:44 And so if I allow you to enter into a covenant with her, 24:48 understand that I am also involved in this 24:51 and that you have to report to me. 24:54 And so it's another, 24:56 another connective piece in that 24:58 is that you take the story of Moses. 25:01 Moses was a shepherd of another man's flock, 25:05 Jethro, his father-in-law. 25:07 He was a shepherd of another man's flock 25:09 and because he was a faithful shepherd 25:12 of another man's flock, God then gave him His flock. 25:16 God gave him Israel to take care of through the wilderness. 25:21 And so understanding this gospel message 25:23 that is so prevalent within a marriage relationship, 25:26 and is so prevalent within the act of sex 25:29 that when you are engaging, 25:32 this is not just for your own enjoyment 25:34 but that you are caring for this other person, 25:38 you are a shepherd of another man's child. 25:42 And so you are why not and it's... 25:45 But this, but this other man God, 25:50 God is not as limited as human beings are. 25:55 And so it's not as perverted 25:58 as it may be if the actual father, 26:02 the biological father was in the room, right? 26:05 But there is this God that understands sexuality 26:08 far better than I do. 26:09 And so why not invite Him. 26:11 Yes. Yes. 26:12 Definitely, definitely, definitely. 26:16 Going back to that question of, can you overdo it? 26:22 Is there a way that we can all fully bring religious prayers 26:27 into our sexuality? 26:31 Is there a line that should not be crossed? 26:34 And I think one thing that we need to go to 26:38 when we're asking this question 26:39 is what is my relationship with God? 26:41 How do I connect with Him? 26:44 And I believe God will let you know 26:47 if you're pushing the boundaries. 26:49 If you're saying stuff that you're not supposed to say. 26:52 If you're praying something towards your spouse 26:54 in a negative way, God will rebuke you 26:56 and say, "You need to stop doing what you're doing." 27:00 "This is not respecting me and praying to me." 27:03 So we're about to finish the discussion 27:05 but we want you to keep on having the discussion. 27:09 How about you? 27:11 Do you believe in prayer in your intimacy? 27:14 And how can you incorporate it? 27:16 How can you use it to enhance your relationship 27:19 with your spouse? 27:22 My husband and I, we need Jesus to guide us 27:26 and to lead us in every facet of our lives 27:30 especially in our sexual relationship. 27:33 The Bible says in Luke 6:39, "Can the blind lead the blind? 27:39 Will they not both fall into a pit?" 27:42 So yes, we need to be praying to God to help us 27:45 in this particular area. 27:47 And another thing if God is with us, 27:49 who can be against us. 27:51 Thank you for joining us today, 27:53 and please remember to make pure choices. 27:55 Yes. |
Revised 2017-08-14