Participants: Whitley Phipps (Host), Adly Campos, Dr E T Stoddart, Ruthie Jacobson
Series Code: PFM
Program Code: PFM000004A
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00:27 Hi, I'm Wintley Phipps,
00:28 and welcome to our program 00:30 Perfecting Me, Becoming More Like Jesus. 00:34 I'm so glad you joined us. 00:36 My guests today on our program are Ruthie Jacobsen, 00:39 Head of Prayer Ministry of the North American division 00:41 of Seventh-day Adventist, Pastor Errol Stoddart, 00:44 Senior Pastor of The Church of the Oranges 00:46 of Seventh-day Adventist in Orange, New Jersey, 00:50 and Mrs. Adly Campos, Speaker and President 00:53 of Family Well-Being International. 00:55 You'll hear from them a little later. 00:59 When I look back at my ministry, 01:00 there have been three or four major epiphanies 01:03 that I will always cherish. 01:06 To me an epiphany is a personal supernatural revelation 01:09 given by God that illuminates your understanding 01:13 in a profound way. 01:15 They are God anointed perspectives 01:18 that have enriched my Christian life 01:20 more than words could ever explain. 01:22 The first epiphany I remember is the day I first realized 01:25 that God hears and answers prayer. 01:28 I was 16 years old 01:29 when I experienced my first answered prayer. 01:32 In my prayer I said, "Lord, 01:33 whatever You want me to do I'll do. 01:35 If you want me to be a garbage man, 01:37 I'm willing to be a garbage man." 01:38 And then I prayed, "Lord, You know I like to travel 01:41 and use my talents for You and if that's Your will for me, 01:45 open the doors, let me see in some way. 01:47 A day went by and two men came to me on the campus and said, 01:50 "Are you Wintley Phipps?" 01:52 I said, "Yes." 01:53 They said, "We've been hearing about you 01:55 and we want you to travel with us 01:57 and do singing evangelism." 01:58 I was dumbfounded, it was my first epiphany. 02:02 God answers prayer. 02:04 The second epiphany concerns the presence of God, 02:07 the understanding that we've been blessed by God 02:10 with the ability to feel and sense the presence of God. 02:14 The third epiphany was the understanding 02:17 that loving God is my life's greatest romance. 02:20 I'm in love with God, God is in love with me, 02:23 and loving God is my greatest romance. 02:26 Now when I bow my head and pray, 02:27 I feel like a blind woman 02:29 waiting on the arrival of her lover. 02:31 I can't see his face but I can sense his presence 02:34 and I can hear his voice. 02:36 Well, the epiphany we're gonna be talking about today 02:39 is the centrality and preeminence 02:42 of Christ likeness and the character of God. 02:45 Nothing in Christianity works without Christ likeness. 02:50 Christianity is a faith that will lose its way 02:55 without the central purpose of Christ likeness. 02:59 We'll be right back. 03:05 I feel blessed to be able to say 03:08 I have been in only one plane crash in my life 03:12 and more blessed 03:13 because I'm here to tell about it. 03:15 I was flying from Seattle to Spokane 03:17 on the small private plane 03:19 and as we came over the Cascade Mountains, 03:21 it was dark and raining, 03:23 suddenly we crashed on the tarmac. 03:26 You see the pilot had forgotten to put the wheels down. 03:31 Thankfully, we all survived. 03:34 But this miracle is a constant reminder to me 03:36 that in many cases, 03:38 we all really do want those 03:41 who serve us to strive for perfection. 03:46 It may be a physician who is caring for our diseases, 03:50 or the mechanic who is trying to make sure 03:53 that our car is in tip-top shape, 03:55 or even the athlete we pay money 03:58 to watch on game day, 04:00 or the teacher, we count on to educate our children. 04:04 We want those who serve us, 04:07 especially the pilots who fly our planes 04:11 to strive for perfection at all times. 04:16 We don't want anything less from them 04:19 than the pursuit of perfection all day, 04:23 everyday, and in the case of pilots, 04:26 every flight, every flight. 04:28 Why? Because too much is at stake. 04:32 How is it then that when it comes to serving God, 04:36 we see the pursuit of perfection as optional. 04:41 We see the pursuit of perfection as elective, 04:46 something left entirely up to our own discretion. 04:50 We even believe, we can cherry pick 04:52 where and how and when we want to put 04:55 our best foot forward to resemble, 04:58 reflect and reveal the character of God. 05:01 We invite God to come into our lives 05:03 and then tell Him what rooms are off limits. 05:06 We tell Him what habits and attitudes 05:09 we are serious about addressing, 05:11 and then we tell Him which ones we expect Him 05:14 to overlook. 05:17 Too often, this has crippled the advance 05:20 and effectiveness of God's kingdom 05:23 and it has stained its witness. 05:27 That is why we have professed followers of Jesus, 05:29 who fall anywhere it seems 05:31 along the continuum of dysfunctional human behavior 05:36 from showing contempt to strangers, 05:40 to holding a Bible in one hand 05:42 and the chains of slaves in the other. 05:46 If there's anyone who knows that we are not perfect 05:49 and cannot be perfect on our own, 05:52 it is God Himself. 05:55 Why then would He say to us, "Strive for perfection." 06:01 Matthew 5:48, He says, "Be ye therefore perfect, 06:07 even as Your Father which is in heaven is perfect." 06:10 Now it is true, none of us is perfect, 06:15 yet God has instructed us to pursue, 06:20 to pursue perfection. 06:22 And we've grown so used to living with our imperfections 06:27 that to us pursuing God's standard of perfection 06:31 seems like reaching for the stars. 06:33 You know, possible but highly unlikely. 06:38 Perhaps you've heard the name Vince Lombardi, 06:40 the coach of the Green Bay Packers, 06:43 who in a remarkable run let his team 06:46 to five NFL championships during the 1960's. 06:51 One day as he was motivating his team, 06:54 Lombardi said these words, 06:56 "Gentlemen, we will chase perfection 07:00 and we will chase it relentlessly, 07:03 knowing all along, we can never attain it." 07:08 But along the way, he said, "We shall catch excellence." 07:15 To reassure, be ye therefore perfect 07:17 is more than a motivational pep talk 07:20 on the football field of life. 07:23 It is fundamental 07:25 to living lives of blessing and victory. 07:27 For as we strive for perfection all day, 07:31 everyday, we may not attain it, 07:35 but we might just hit Christian maturity 07:39 along the way. 07:41 To say you know Jesus and love Him, 07:45 means you have committed yourself 07:47 to the relentless pursuit of resembling 07:51 and reflecting His character 07:54 all day, everyday, no excuses. 07:59 You commit yourself to this life journey 08:01 not when you feel like it 08:04 or when it is convenient, but all day, 08:08 everyday, no excuses. 08:11 You commit to it not so you can earn a ticket to heaven 08:16 but so you can do your best 08:18 to live up to your highest calling 08:20 and your supreme destiny, 08:22 which is to be a reflection 08:26 of His perfection. 08:29 As the moon reflects the light of the sun, 08:32 each one of us was made 08:34 to reflect the light of God's perfect character. 08:39 In our own way we must remember, 08:42 it was Jesus Himself who said, "Be ye therefore perfect." 08:47 He would have never said that to us, 08:49 if He didn't want us to try, 08:52 and if He didn't know that in His power we could succeed. 08:58 One writer said, they are those 09:00 who have known the pardoning love of Christ. 09:03 And who really desired to be children of God, 09:06 yet they realize that their character isn't perfect. 09:09 Their life faulty and they are ready to doubt 09:12 whether their hearts have been renewed 09:15 by the Holy Spirit. 09:16 To such I would say, do not draw back in despair, 09:20 we shall often have to bow down and weep at the feet of Jesus 09:24 because of our shortcomings and mistakes. 09:27 But we are not to be discouraged 09:29 even if we are overcome by the enemy. 09:33 We are not cast of, we are not rejected of God. 09:37 Jesus is at the right hand of God 09:40 making intercession for us. 09:48 At this point, when the pot is quite thin, 09:51 it's really easy to make adjustments to the form, 09:56 it's very responsive, 09:59 just a slightest touch, not a lot of force. 10:04 I think about that in terms of those of you 10:06 who have just been so in love with Jesus 10:09 for such a long time, you trust Him so much. 10:13 With just the slice nuance, 10:15 the slightest concept that He gives, 10:18 puts into your hearts and minds, and you're like, 10:20 "You bet, I want to do that, let's go. 10:23 Let's go do it." 10:25 We don't question Him so much anymore. 10:29 We're ready. 10:31 You know, I think of, think of Peter for example in the boat, 10:35 in the storm, 10:37 and he'd been around Jesus long enough 10:40 that he was ready to try new things 10:43 if Jesus would say to do it. 10:45 You see that's the key, in being formed by God. 10:50 You need to listen, you need to be open 10:53 to what He's doing and trust Him. 10:57 Hear and obey, He's a great God. 11:06 I'm gonna allow this pot to stiffen up a little bit, 11:12 get ready for the next step of its life, 11:15 very vital step. 11:20 When I'm finishing up a pot that I have thrown 11:22 while it's still wet, I will often choose to remove 11:27 by trimming a portion of the clay 11:31 so that it's not heavy. 11:35 At the end of making a pot, when it's still somewhat soft, 11:39 I flip it over upside down on the wheel 11:42 and I trim away the excess clay 11:45 that's there and I refine the form 11:47 in that process. 11:56 When you pick up a pot of mine and you examine it, 11:59 you look at the bottom of it and my name is written on it. 12:03 And that signifies the fact 12:05 that this pot was not made in a factory, 12:08 was not made by machinery 12:10 but it was made by a person, 12:11 it's an individually uniquely created thing. 12:16 In nature God has created seasons of life, 12:21 there's spring, there's summer, there's fall, there's winter. 12:24 In our own lives 12:26 and in the action of making pottery, 12:29 there are also seasons, 12:30 there are times of tremendous growth 12:32 and excitement. 12:34 There are times when everything seems to be dormant and still, 12:38 almost like a winter time in our lives. 12:41 There's a time when I make pot 12:43 in which I let it dry little bit 12:45 before I attach a handle, before I decorate it, 12:48 before I alter the shape a little bit 12:51 and that pot might feel like, "He's forgotten me." 12:55 But I've not, I'm just waiting for the perfect moment 12:59 and I'm watching for that time and He does the same with us. 13:05 Well, this pitcher is been shaped on the wheel 13:12 and it now has a handle, 13:16 from its perspective it's a complete pot. 13:20 But reality is that its story is not finished. 13:26 Even though it's a pitcher and its form is complete, 13:31 if I were to pour ice tea into it 13:33 or water and put flowers in, 13:36 in its raw state of clay, it would totally disintegrate, 13:41 and so it has to go through another stage, 13:45 actually several stages yet to come 13:48 before the story of this pitcher could be complete. 13:56 Joining us again are my guests, Ruthie Jacobsen, 13:59 Adly Campos and Pastor Errol Stoddart. 14:03 We were talking about having epiphanies and, 14:06 you know, one came to my mind, my wife said that 14:09 when we were recording, 14:12 we bumped into each other on the campus 14:14 and she was looking down at me and I was looking at her, 14:17 and she said the Lord spoke to her 14:20 and said there he is, he's gonna be your husband. 14:25 And she said she looked down at my platform shoes 14:27 and then looked up with my bell, 14:29 my bellbottom pants and said, "Okay, Lord. 14:32 Yeah, I suppose. 14:34 We've been together 41 years but it took an epiphany, 14:36 that's my point. 14:38 Amen. 14:39 But, Ruthie, you've had an epiphanies in your life 14:42 where God spoke to you in just incredible ways at just, 14:46 it was a majestic revelation that is stuck with you. 14:50 Maybe you can share one of those? 14:53 Well, one was an experience in London, 14:55 we took over a 100 teenagers over there 14:58 in European Prayer Conference at Glenbrook Park Academy, 15:01 and here we thought we were going to be 15:04 a blessing to them, 15:05 and I think the Lord used the kids 15:07 with Barry Peters over there. 15:09 But the most exciting that happened, 15:11 the most thrilling thing was that, 15:13 I think we had a plan from the enemy, 15:16 we had a kid who came with pornography 15:19 and all kinds of things from the wrong side. 15:23 And he was disruptive, 15:25 so we talked to him and we said, 15:27 "No, we can send you home 15:29 or we can give you another chance." 15:33 He said, "Don't send me home and so the kids prayed over him 15:38 and we just saw a miracle, we saw a miracle 15:43 and that it was the power of salvation working right there, 15:47 he was baptized, 15:49 and so we had thrilling things happened 15:51 with the kids that we took 15:53 than the kids that we were working with over there 15:55 that we could see the test of power of the gospel, 15:59 that's the power of the blood of Jesus. 16:01 Amen. Amazing. 16:03 Pastor Stoddart, tell us about an epiphany 16:05 that you would recall? 16:08 Well, every year for the first 40 days of the year, 16:11 I invite my church to fast and pray for 40 days, 16:14 first 40 days of the new year, 16:16 and this year around in the week number four, 16:19 we were fasting and praying, and in the first service, 16:21 I was on my knees in church and just crying out to God, 16:24 and the Spirit of the Lord just spoke to me 16:27 and almost is if I heard God say, 16:30 "Pine Forge app, the Pine Forge app." 16:33 And I got up of my knees 16:35 and I said to one of the elders, 16:36 remember Pine Forge. 16:38 And I never went to Pine Forge, it was never my academy. 16:43 Pine Forge is an academy in Pennsylvania, 16:45 beautiful place, the campus where our conference, 16:48 our office is stationed. 16:51 And so I got up off my knees, 16:53 said to the elder men, remember Pine Forge Academy. 16:56 And the Lord just kept that thing on my mind. 17:00 I called the principal, the vice principal, I said, 17:02 "The Lord told me to tell you the Pine Forge app." 17:06 And I called them, we worked on the Pine Forge app. 17:09 Now, Pine Forge Academy has an app. 17:11 This is one of the most, 17:13 one of the most enlightening moments 17:15 that God just spoke this thing to me 17:18 about a way to help Christian education, 17:20 to help our young people to be able to go to school, 17:24 to be able to afford Christian education. 17:27 So we launched the Pine Forge app at camp meeting 17:30 and it's just exciting to see people on board 17:33 downloading the Pine Forge app, watching sermons, 17:35 listening to the young people give their devotionals, 17:37 and giving to Pine Forge Academy. 17:39 Praise God. How about you, Sister Campos? 17:44 The one that I just, I'm amazed that is 17:48 when I was invited for the first time 17:51 to hold a week of prayer in the state of New York. 17:54 I have never done that before, 17:56 so I was a little afraid of accepting the invitation, 18:01 nevertheless, I accepted the challenge in God's name. 18:06 The church had 20 members 18:08 and I was to speak to the young people. 18:11 When I began speaking to the young people, 18:14 I began preaching in English, 18:17 because I knew they understood better the English 18:19 than the Spanish. 18:21 But then the parents wanted to understand 18:23 what I was saying to the young people 18:25 so I had to speak half English, 18:28 half Spanish back and forth 18:30 in order for everyone to understand 18:33 what I was saying. 18:34 I began to visit the young people in their homes. 18:38 And as I visited them, 18:39 I discovered that a lot of them were not baptized. 18:42 They have never been asked to be baptized, 18:44 so I invited each and every one of them 18:47 to give their lives to the Lord. 18:49 At the end of that week of prayer, 18:52 we had 20 baptisms for the glory of God. 18:55 Amen. 18:56 It was then that I understood that something has, 18:59 something for me to do in His work. 19:02 Not just as a mother of four, 19:05 or a wife of the pastor but now I, 19:07 it was my time to do something for the Lord 19:10 and He has done amazing things. 19:13 When I never dreamt that I could do anything like that, 19:18 He has used me and for His all around glory, 19:21 I continue to minister. 19:23 You know there is a scripture that says that, 19:25 "By one offering, 19:27 He has perfected those that are being sanctified." 19:33 Which is one of the greatest epiphanies of my life, 19:37 that God sees us as perfected, 19:42 while we're being sanctified. 19:45 God sees us as perfect while He is perfecting us. 19:51 Now, I wanted to ask you, Pastor Stoddart. 19:54 If we are perfect and God sees us as perfect, 19:58 while we're being sanctified, 20:02 is it possible that He sees us as perfect, 20:07 even though we may stumble, 20:09 even though we may make mistakes? 20:12 Oh, absolutely, absolutely and I love the fact, 20:16 you know, one of the epiphanies that I had many years ago 20:21 was coming in contact with the word, 20:24 the original word or perfection. 20:27 One of the words uses the word tamim. 20:29 And it means to walk with God. 20:33 And really, it is in the walking with God 20:37 that perfection happened. 20:38 Yes. 20:40 Most of the times we have been afraid of the word perfection 20:42 because we are thinking absolute behavioral conformity 20:47 with no possibility for failure. 20:49 Yes. 20:51 But it is about the walk, that daily walk. 20:56 As the Apostle Paul says, "Walk in the spirit 20:59 and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." 21:02 And the idea is, that if I'm walking with God, 21:06 He's constantly grooming me 21:08 and moving me on this continuum, 21:11 the Lord's reflecting His character. 21:13 Yes, I want to share a thought and then have you react to it. 21:19 You know, when we get to heaven, 21:21 we will still be growing in character. 21:26 Absolutely. 21:27 So even, I mean even when we get to heaven, 21:32 we're still not as perfect as we're going to be. 21:39 And react to that, tell me what comes to your mind 21:42 when you hear that, that when we get to heaven, 21:45 we're still going to be growing, 21:47 we're still gonna be learning 21:49 more about the character of God. 21:51 As a matter of fact, 21:52 the sermon of the Lord says that, 21:55 the principles 22:00 of the character of God 22:03 form the foundation of the continuing education 22:09 of the angels in heaven. 22:12 So even the angels in heaven are still learning more 22:17 and more throughout eternity about the character of God. 22:21 And so I say, what is so deep, what is so vast, 22:26 that you can spend eternities studying it 22:30 and still not exhaust it. 22:32 So the perfection that God, 22:35 when God made us in His character, 22:37 He also made us to continue to grow, 22:40 just like plants grow, 22:41 just growth is a part of their process. 22:44 Sister Campos, as I see 22:45 and maybe the Lord has put in your heart 22:46 something you can share about that? 22:50 Well, it is amazing, amazing 22:54 to be able to study the character of God. 22:57 We have only but just a little tinsy bit of the light 23:01 about God's character. 23:04 So yes, I can understand that, 23:06 it will take all eternity to be able to understand 23:11 totally, completely. 23:13 He's beautiful, the perfection, 23:16 the sacredness of His character. 23:20 How would, Ruthie, what do you think about that? 23:23 Well, I agree with that. 23:27 And, you know, 23:28 it says something about God's love for us, 23:31 that He wants us to grow, 23:33 He wants us to become more and more fulfilled, 23:37 more and more able to minister and to be used and I... 23:43 It's overwhelming thought and I think we're gonna take, 23:47 it's gonna take eternity for us to try to thank Him... 23:51 Yes, absolutely. For being that kind of. 23:55 You know, I... 23:56 People often ask, you know, 23:58 "How do I know God's character?" 24:02 And I often tell them, study the word, 24:06 and by the way this is another epiphany for me. 24:09 This is a key God gave me that just blew my mind. 24:13 God said, "Go back and study the word." 24:16 And whatever God asked you to be in His word, 24:21 He already is. 24:24 Whatever He asked you to be in His word, He already is. 24:29 And He is so in perfection. 24:33 Absolutely. 24:35 So, you know, just think of that. 24:36 Go ahead, go ahead, Pastor. 24:38 You know, the thing that jumped out at me 24:40 as you were talking about it when He is at. 24:43 As a pastor, I'm doing a series on 1 Corinthians 13, 24:47 the love chapter and you know, 24:49 you talk about love suffers long, 24:51 it's kind, doesn't envy and you go down the lift, 24:54 you go, you look at Galatians, 24:56 Paul talks about fruit of the spirit, 24:59 and you look at all of that. 25:00 And each one of those individual subject matters 25:04 is a sermon. 25:05 Kindness is a sermon. Yes, right. 25:07 So imagine, if we are saying the character of God is loving, 25:12 kind, generous, merciful, good, great, 25:16 you talk about a subject matter 25:19 that you can study into infinity 25:22 and still not complete it. 25:23 Yes. 25:25 Because even when I finish writing a sermon 25:26 and I look at it and I listen to it, if I do, 25:29 I see how many things I missed in the sermon. 25:32 Yes. 25:33 How many things I didn't cover in that subject matter. 25:36 And so, you know, many authors have written on these subjects 25:40 and they still have not exhausted it 25:43 and so it is with God. 25:45 We will have eternity and still not exhaust 25:47 the study of His character. 25:48 Absolutely, and we'll have eternity to grow more, 25:52 to become more like the character of God. 25:54 Thank you so much for being with me today. 26:00 Many years ago, in the 1950s, 26:03 a pastor was traveling on a Greyhound bus. 26:05 He was seated next to a college student, 26:08 who noticed when the pastor pulled out his Bible 26:10 and began to read. 26:12 When they came to a rough stretch in the road, 26:15 the ride became really rough and bumpy. 26:18 As the bus started to jostle them around, 26:20 the pastor asked the young man, 26:21 "Are you ready for the temptations 26:23 you will face in college?" 26:25 The young man said to the pastor, 26:27 "I don't have a problem with temptation, 26:30 I've strong willpower. 26:31 And the minister quietly took a pencil 26:33 out of his pocket and said, 26:34 "Would you like to see me make this pencil stand up 26:37 on the cover of this Bible, 26:39 even though our bus is going down a very bumpy road?" 26:42 The young man said, "I'll believe it when I see it, 26:45 I don't think you can do that." 26:46 "See there" said the pastor, "I'm doing it." 26:49 The young man laughed and said, "But you didn't tell me, 26:52 you would hold up the pencil with your hand." 26:55 "I didn't have to tell you," 26:56 the pastor said. 26:58 "Have you ever seen a pencil stand up on its own 27:00 without someone holding it?" 27:02 The pastor then let go of the pencil, 27:04 it shuttered and fell over. 27:06 "The only reason you stand" 27:08 the pastor said to the young man, 27:10 "is because God is holding you up with His hand. 27:13 If God were to remove His hand of protecting grace, 27:17 you like all of us would immediately fall into sin." 27:22 And so whatever perfection 27:24 we attain along the way belongs to Jesus. 27:28 While God Himself uses that word liberally, 27:31 with great hope and optimism, 27:34 many today have begun to see it as offensive. 27:37 God has made Himself crystal clear. 27:41 He wants His people to strive for perfection. 27:48 I'm Wintley Phipps. 27:50 Thank you for being with us today 27:52 and, remember, 27:53 to be a Christian means to be Christ like. |
Revised 2018-01-18