Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000028A
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00:31 Okay, we left off in Revelation chapter 7
00:34 we spent two studies... two programs 00:37 on the 144,000 and we're still not done, 00:40 go figure... Yvonne: I love it though... 00:42 James: Now, I'm just going to... 00:44 Yvonne: It's juicy... this is some juicy stuff right here. 00:47 James: And it's good stuff, it's important stuff. 00:48 Yvonne: It is. James: Now we left off... 00:50 we're going to do two more programs actually 00:52 because we're going to do this one... it's on the Seal of God 00:54 but it's going to finish up the characteristics of the 144,000 00:57 in Revelation 14... we might even touch on Revelation 15, 01:00 we're going to kind of do that a little bit... 01:02 and then we're going to go right in to the Seal of God 01:05 which is part of the 144,000 01:06 they're sealed with the Seal of God 01:08 which we've already learned 01:09 is the name of the Father in their foreheads... 01:12 the name of the Father in their foreheads... 01:15 Ezekiel 9 tells us that that's a protection 01:17 that it can be seen... it's a Mark that can be seen 01:20 but Revelation tells us 01:22 it's also character... it's also infused... 01:24 it's the character of God within us, 01:26 so it's not just a protection outward... 01:28 it's an inward experience that we have 01:31 in our relationship with Jesus Christ 01:33 because Jesus Christ's character 01:35 is the reflection of the Father's character. 01:37 so we want to look at the characteristics... 01:39 do all of the redeemed have these characteristics 01:41 or is this just an elite group? 01:42 That was the question we were kind of dealing with, right, 01:44 and then in our next program... 01:46 it's probably going to be one of the best programs 01:49 that we're going to do, I'm just throwing this out, 01:51 you guys are going to share with us 01:54 everything you've learned 01:56 about the 144,000 and the Seal of God. 01:58 Yvonne: Ohhhh... James: We're just going to be... 02:00 Yvonne: Might be kind of short huh, 02:02 no... underplaying... underplaying. 02:04 James: Well, we're just going to interact... interact, interact 02:06 and just go through it, what we're thinking is, 02:08 we should summarize the whole thing. 02:09 Yvonne: Yeah, I think it's good. James: We could be done in three 02:11 but we're going to do the fourth one 02:12 and summarize the whole thing and just bring it all together, 02:14 boom! type of thing, okay, 02:16 so, Jason, let's hit it off with a word of prayer 02:19 because we really need the Holy Spirit to be here 02:21 and then I'm thinking, we should move to Revelation 14 02:24 and get into the next characteristic. 02:25 Jason: All right, "Dear Heavenly Father, 02:27 thank you so much for bringing us back together 02:30 to study your Word again, please send your Holy Spirit 02:33 to fill this place with your presence 02:35 as we dig deeper into Revelation 02:38 and progress further and further in the Book, 02:42 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. " 02:43 All: "Amen... " 02:44 James: All right, Revelation 14, 02:46 now we've looked at the Father's name in Revelation 14 02:50 and verse 1, we've looked at Mount Zion too 02:53 we identified those and then we looked at 02:55 the first fruits which is in Revelation 14 and verse 4 02:59 but there's... there's another characteristic or two here 03:03 one of them in Revelation 14:4 is... 03:06 "These are they 03:08 which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. " 03:13 Okay, my understanding of that is that sometimes we think, 03:18 "Well that must just be an end-time group because 03:20 not defiled with women and virgins 03:24 infers that these guys have pure doctrine... " 03:27 now the reason I says this is because 03:29 if you read this literally, this could be... 03:32 this could infer... this is male... 03:35 virgins... never slept with a woman... 03:37 and Jewish... according to Revelation 7, 03:40 and that's what a lot of people think... 03:43 Christians believe that this 144,000 are 03:45 the literal 12 tribes of Israel, they're literal Jews 03:50 and when you get to Revelation 14... 03:52 they're literal male Jews who've never slept with a woman. 03:55 They take it all literally and one thing that's really... 03:57 I think, good about that interpretation, 03:59 one positive point about it I don't agree with it, 04:01 one positive point about it, it's consistent, 04:03 everything is literal, everything is literal... 04:05 we want to be just as consistent 04:08 in saying and understanding, everything is symbolic, 04:11 the number, therefore, is symbolic, 04:13 you can't have a literal number 04:14 and everything else is symbolic, so we're saying, 04:16 "No, it's either all literal or it's all symbolic" 04:18 so we've come down on the side of, "it's all symbolic... " 04:20 so what does it mean then 04:23 to be a woman and a virgin 04:25 in relation to our relationship to Christ? 04:28 Yvonne: Who are you asking? You're asking us? 04:30 James: Yeah... I'm asking... 04:32 Jason: A church is Christ's bride... so a purified bride. 04:34 James: Okay, so... definitely, we know... 04:37 the woman would be a symbol... 04:38 if it's symbolic... which we believe it is 04:39 all God's church... God's bride, 04:41 and we see the wedding theme here... 04:43 so we know... but what about virgins, 04:45 I mean, how does that play into that? 04:48 is there a Bible verse on it? Go ahead. 04:50 Yvonne: Well, it made me think about the harlot from Babylon. 04:55 James: Yes... 04:57 Yvonne: And these women... 04:59 this is referring to virgin so... 05:02 uncorrupted... you know... pure... 05:05 James: A pure women in white. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 05:06 James: Do we see a pure woman in white in the Book of Revelation. 05:08 Yvonne: We do... 05:10 James: Yeah, we saw one in Revelation chapter 12 verse 1, 05:12 now we haven't gotten there yet 05:14 because we're skipping up to 14... 05:16 only because we're trying to identify the group of 144,000 05:19 but go back to 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 05:23 and read here now, I'm going to tell you, 05:29 we're going to have to spend just a little bit of time here 05:31 because there's some stuff here that's really powerful 05:34 in relation to prophecy in Revelation. 05:37 Yvonne: Good. 05:38 James: Okay, so we're going to read... Revelation... 05:40 2nd Corinthians 11 and Jason, if you could read for us 05:43 verses 2... Yvonne: I have it already. 05:45 James: You have it... you're already on it... 05:47 okay, verses 2, 3 and 4. 05:48 Yvonne: "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: 05:51 for I have espoused you to one husband, 05:53 that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. " 05:56 James: Ah ha... now let's stop there for just a second. 05:58 Yvonne: Yes... James: So there's the word... 06:00 Paul is actually using the word 06:02 he's talking to believers in Corinth... 06:03 but he's talking to believers, 06:05 this epistle written to Corinth is for everyone, 06:07 even us, and he's saying, 06:08 "I want you to be a virgin for Christ... " 06:10 now this is not in the end of time... the elite group... 06:13 this is everyone, okay, this is everyone, 06:14 then... what does he say? 06:17 Yvonne: Then he says, "But I fear, lest by any means, 06:20 as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, 06:23 so your minds should be corrupted 06:25 from the simplicity that is in Christ. " 06:27 James: Now... another... just hold on just a second there 06:30 we've already picked up one word "virgins" Revelation 14... 06:33 now, we're picking up another word from the Book of Revelation 06:35 did you catch it... the serpent. Yvonne: Hmmm... 06:38 James: Where's that in Revelation? 06:40 Revelation 12... 06:42 the woman is presented and then there's this dragon... 06:44 that old serpent... the devil... Yvonne: Hmmm... 06:46 James: So do you see... the... okay... 06:49 we got to make those connections right here, 06:50 you've got the serpent, you've got the virgin, 06:51 okay, now we get to the punch line. 06:53 Yvonne: And it says, 06:55 "that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. " 06:58 Back here in Revelation, it says, 07:01 "they have not been defiled with women... " 07:03 James: Right, now verse 4... 07:05 Yvonne: "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, 07:08 whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, 07:13 which ye have not received, or another gospel, 07:15 which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. " 07:18 James: Okay, now look at this, there's another phrase here, 07:21 the gospel... in Revelation 14 we have the everlasting gospel. 07:24 Yvonne: Right. 07:25 James: We have a crossover right here, 07:27 the Book of Revelation is referring us 07:29 back to 2nd Corinthians. 07:30 It's talking about people who could be deceived 07:33 and that's another word that's used in Revelation 13, 07:35 who could be deceived by another Jesus... 07:39 another Jesus... do you believe in Jesus? 07:42 Yvonne: Oh yeah. 07:44 James: What Jesus do you believe in? Yvonne: Hmmm... 07:45 James: Another gospel... do you believe the gospel? 07:47 What gospel do you believe in? 07:49 Because there's another one, I guess. 07:50 In fact, there are preachers, 07:53 Jason, verses 13 through 15, there are preachers 07:56 preaching this other gospel and this other Jesus. 07:59 James: Look at this, this is amazing. 08:02 Jason: "For such are false apostles, 08:04 deceitful workers, 08:06 transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 08:08 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed 08:12 into an angel of light. 08:13 Therefore it is no great thing 08:15 if his ministers also be transformed 08:17 as the ministers of righteousness; 08:19 whose end shall be according to their works. " 08:22 Yvonne: Hmmm... 08:23 James: Now this takes us to the lamb-like beast, 08:25 we haven't gotten there yet, 08:27 the beast with lamb-like horns who becomes the false prophet 08:29 all of this... all of this we're going to unpack this 08:31 later too... but all of this is telling us, basically, 08:34 that to be a virgin is to be among those 08:37 who hold the gospel of Jesus Christ, 08:40 who follow Jesus, who are filled with His spirit 08:43 and are not deceived by the devil and his ministers 08:46 and false prophets and false Christs, 08:48 and that's the whole focus so... so we've identified 08:50 what it means to be a first fruit... born of God, 08:52 born again what it means to be a virgin, 08:53 a woman that is pure and holy to the gospel of Jesus Christ 08:57 following Him and having His spirit... 08:58 it applies to everyone... across the board. 09:01 Ivor: I just want to add to that particular thought, 09:03 if you go into the Book of Proverbs, 09:06 this... this adds a really interesting view 09:10 in terms of the... the... 09:12 being a chaste virgin versus being defiled, 09:17 in Proverbs 31, beginning with verse 31, 09:21 I've... when I hear... when you hear Proverbs 31, 09:23 what do you think of? The virtuous woman... 09:26 the virtuous woman, I'm going to tell you something, 09:28 that the virtuous woman... a lot of people... 09:31 a lot of women especially... read this and they're like... 09:34 "Oh man! and I can't do... what? 09:35 this is all the virtuous woman does?" 09:36 And yes, in a sense it is a description 09:39 of the virtuous woman but I think in a greater sense, 09:41 this is a description of the church of Christ. 09:44 James: Yeah, absolutely. Yvonne: Ah... 09:45 Ivor: This is what Christ does, you know, 09:47 while her household sleeps, she's up making bread, 09:49 bread... you know, she's... she's gathering... 09:53 linen and all these things so when you read this 09:55 it's very powerful but I want you to check out 09:58 how the chapter starts, and it says, 10:00 "The words of king Lemuel, 10:02 the prophecy that his mother taught him. " 10:04 The what? Yvonne: Prophecy... 10:06 James: It's symbolic. 10:07 Ivor: A what? Prophecy? But then it goes on... it says, 10:10 "What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? 10:12 and what, the son of my vows? Give not thy strength unto... " 10:16 Ivor: What? All: women 10:17 Ivor: "women, nor that which destroyeth... " who? 10:20 All: "kings... " 10:21 Ivor: Remember, in the Book of Revelation says, 10:23 "We are kings... " right? 10:24 so what is Satan trying to do? 10:26 He's trying to destroy kings... and how is he going to do it? 10:28 He's going to do it through "women... " 10:30 whatever that means.. you see, 10:33 through deception, through guile, 10:35 so notice what it goes on to say, 10:38 "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, 10:40 it is not for kings to drink... " what? 10:43 All: wine... Ivor: "wine... 10:44 nor for princes strong drink: 10:47 Lest they drink, and... " 10:49 All: "forget the law... " 10:51 Ivor: "forget... lest they drink, and forget... " 10:55 James: Remember... don't forget... 10:57 "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. " 10:59 Yvonne: Hmmm... Ivor: Yes. 11:00 James: Which actually... the word "remember" means 11:02 "to mark" in Ezekiel they are "marked... " 11:05 they are sealed, they are marked. 11:07 Ivor: Yeah, when you said "remember something" 11:09 you are saying, "mark it down... mark it in your mind... " 11:12 the teacher will say, "write it down... " 11:14 people forget, paper does not... 11:17 "mark ye... mark ye... " 11:19 yeah, absolutely, so, again we're seeing 11:22 you know what? This... Revelation 14... 11:26 or those first few verses are demonstrating... 11:29 and showing to us people who avoid the false teachings, 11:35 the false gospels that are being presented. 11:38 This is only one gospel, really, it's the everlasting gospel 11:43 which is introduced in the very next verse, 11:45 Revelation 14:6... 11:46 James: So look at... looking at this 11:48 we have, one more, I think, characteristic... 11:51 it kind of ties together, they have no guile in their mouths 11:54 Revelation 14 says, "For they are without fault... " 11:57 how do... you know... when you think about that, 12:00 when you think about being without fault, 12:02 this is where a lot of people just say, 12:04 "this has got to be the final generation only... " 12:06 because look at all the fields... 12:08 even people who were... who were saved, 12:10 you know, even the Reformers... they had their faults, 12:13 I mean, they had their problems 12:14 and I think the reason why we think that way is 12:17 because we have a misunderstanding of the gospel 12:19 and the reason why we have a misunderstanding of the gospel 12:23 is because we think that God does a certain amount 12:25 and we do a certain amount and then... you know... 12:28 if we... and everything... 12:30 no, we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ 12:34 in every single generation and that's the only way 12:36 anyone ever gets into heaven, 12:39 it is His righteousness, 12:41 so the complete package is in Jesus, 12:43 now, our part is to put our faith and trust in Him 12:48 as we put our faith and trust in Him, 12:50 He presents us faultless, and I love... 12:52 the book that I love on this, 12:53 the chapter that I love on this is Hebrews chapter 11, 12:56 you'll never read it the same again, 12:59 it's the Faith Chapter and here's why I like it, 13:01 I'm just going to refer to it... here's why I like it, 13:02 all of the faithful of past generations 13:06 that are mentioned in that chapter 13:09 are mentioned without fault, 13:12 it talks about how Noah preached for 120 years... 13:15 doesn't say that he ever drank wine and got drunk... 13:18 it talks about how Abraham went out... 13:20 didn't know where he was going, 13:21 it doesn't say that he lied about his sister... 13:23 his wife being his sister twice. Yvonne: Right. 13:25 James: It says, Moses... you know... 13:27 he forsook the pleasures of sin for a season and... 13:29 and suffered with the people of God, 13:31 it doesn't say that he killed the Egyptian 13:32 and put him in the sand, there is nothing negative in it, 13:34 all of the failures of God's people 13:37 have been removed and all you see is "without fault... 13:40 without fault, without fault," why? 13:42 because it's the faith chapter. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 13:44 James: In fact, if you want to understand the judgment, 13:46 the Investigative Judgment, 13:47 Hebrews 11 is where you need to go, 13:48 Hebrews 11 is what we look like in the Investigative Judgment 13:53 when we put our trust in Jesus... by faith... 13:55 if we have our faith in Jesus, then, guess what? 13:57 Our names come up and guess what it looks like? 13:59 Everything that we did right and nothing that we did wrong. 14:02 Yvonne: Hmmm... 14:03 James: Hebrews 11 is the Investigative Judgment 14:06 when we put our faith in Jesus... by faith... 14:08 so, when it says, "they stand without fault" 14:10 this is the condition of 14:12 every single one of the redeemed in Christ. 14:14 Yvonne: Hmmm... 14:15 Ivor: Well and let me... let me add to this that 14:16 the "standing without fault" comes 14:19 as a direct result of the Investigative Judgment 14:22 because it is in the Investigative Judgment 14:26 which talks about the cleansing, you know, 14:29 the blotting out of sins, this is what's being blotted out 14:32 all the sins that have gone beforehand to the judgment 14:35 because we have put our trust in Christ, 14:37 we have confessed, forsaken, turned away from those sins 14:41 and God says, "that blood cancels out... " 14:45 so in that you have a Hebrews 11 picture 14:50 because you have done what Satan refused to do 14:53 which was repent, confess, so, they stand without fault 14:59 not because 15:02 they had never fallen or never sinned in their lives, 15:04 they stand without fault because, 15:06 through Christ, they were able to gain victory 15:09 and through Christ the things that they had done 15:12 that's... were... outside of His character 15:15 because they've confessed and repented 15:17 turned away from those sins, those sins are blotted out. 15:19 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 15:20 Ivor: And that's been something that's been available... 15:22 so when you go back to the fifth seal and the sixth seal... 15:26 the fifth seal are those who have died, 15:28 how long... before you judge, and what are they given? 15:33 white robes... their sins have been forgiven, 15:36 they're going to be without fault before the throne, 15:39 Revelation's... the sixth seal... 15:41 those who are the judgment that is to come, 15:43 those who... when the judgment actually begins 15:45 they are also given white robes, 15:47 you cannot have a white robe unless you're without fault, 15:50 so from Adam, all the way down 15:53 through all the generations, all who've accepted Christ 15:56 will stand before the throne without fault. 15:58 James: Faultless, absolutely faultless. 16:00 Yvonne: Because of Christ and His sacrifice. 16:02 Ivor: Because of Christ and His righteousness. 16:05 James: And that's exactly what it says in the Book of Jude, 16:06 the Jude is the book, right before Revelation, 16:10 notice what it says here, in Jude verse 24 16:12 because it's only... it's not like chapters, 16:15 it's just one chapter so it's verse 24 Jude, 16:17 it says, "Now, unto him... " talking about Christ, 16:20 "that is able to keep you from falling, 16:22 and to present you faultless 16:25 before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 16:29 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, 16:32 dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen. " 16:34 Now, I really love this verse and here's why I love it, 16:36 it you go back just a couple of verses it says, 16:39 verse 22, "And some have compassion, 16:41 making a difference: 16:43 And others say with fear, pulling them out of the fire; 16:47 hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. " 16:48 Yvonne: Hmmm... 16:50 James: There are two groups, there are two emphases 16:53 that the gospel has intention, okay, 16:56 He is able to keep us from falling 16:58 and He's able to present us faultless, 17:00 so we have the power of God to keep us from falling. 17:03 We have people who hate sin and they're just like... 17:05 "oooh I really don't want to touch that 17:07 and we're going to overcome this," okay, 17:08 and then on the other side you have people who understand 17:10 that we're weak and faulty and we make mistakes 17:13 and they have compassion and that mercy and compassion 17:17 actually compels us and draws us and in the next verse 17:20 it says... and who is able to present you faultless... 17:23 in other words, you have faults, 17:24 but He's going to present you faultless... 17:26 the fact that He can present you faultless implies 17:28 that you have faults... Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 17:29 James: you see what I'm saying? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 17:30 James: Someone can present you faultless, 17:32 "Why would I need someone to present me faultless? 17:33 I mean, you know, I'm fine, right?" 17:35 Yvonne: Right. 17:36 James: We got faults, so you see the tension there? 17:38 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 17:39 James: You can hear someone 17:41 who can keep you from falling on one hand, 17:44 and who can also present you faultless 17:46 because you got a few faults, you see, 17:48 we want people who can show compassion 17:51 because you've got those faults, 17:52 but also who will pull you out of the fire 17:54 and they hate the thing that you are involved in, 17:57 and that's the tension we have to have in that gospel 17:59 because we can't be sitting here saying, 18:01 "Yeah, Jesus has got us, so it doesn't really matter" 18:03 no... no we need to be diligent about overcoming 18:06 but at the same time, we can't just say, 18:08 "Well, there's no way I can be saved, 18:09 I'm not good enough to be saved because 18:10 look at all the faults I've got, there's no way, 18:12 I'm just going to have to give up... " 18:14 no... wait a minute... you've got someone 18:16 who can present you faultless, 18:17 in spite of your faults, he can present you faultless, 18:19 I love that beautiful tension right there. 18:21 Yvonne: Yeah... 18:22 Ivor: I think it's... well, go ahead... 18:24 Yvonne: I was... I love that fact that 18:25 our God is so faithful that "he who hath begun a good work 18:30 in us will continue to perform it" 18:32 it's not going to stop until the day of Christ Jesus, 18:35 it's not going to stop, it's just going to... 18:37 He's going to... if He makes himself responsible, 18:40 if we yield to Him, and that's... that's the key... 18:43 I read this book... 18:45 Morris Venden's book a long time ago, 18:47 "Salvation by Faith and Your Will" 18:49 and the thing that stuck out to me the most was, 18:53 there's really nothing I can "do" to be saved, 18:57 Jesus has done it, all I can do 18:59 is give Him His time, 19:01 give Him time to do His work in me, 19:05 other than that... because, in giving Him His time, 19:08 His Word will transform me, so that's really all I can do, 19:13 other than that there's not much I can do 19:16 because it's been done for me 19:18 and Jesus holds Himself responsible for me 19:22 but I have to... and tell me if I'm... 19:25 if you guys are on the same page with this. 19:28 James: Okay. 19:30 Yvonne: The only thing I can do is give Him time and attention, 19:34 by being "intentional" about my time with the Lord 19:38 and that way, He can transform me 19:41 and I can be conformed to His character, 19:43 other than that... what can I do? 19:46 James: It sounds like you're saying to me 19:48 "there's nothing I can do to be saved, 19:51 but if I don't do something, I'm going to be lost... " 19:54 Yvonne: Yes... 19:56 James: There's nothing I can do, I can't save myself, 19:59 but I've got to do something 20:01 and that focus that you're talking about, 20:04 is the key... it is the secret of success 20:06 and in fact, it is the theme of the Book of Revelation, 20:11 let me just give you two references. 20:13 James: Reference number one, no man in heaven, 20:15 no man in earth and no man under the earth 20:18 can take the Book and read it and unseal it, 20:20 the elder says, "Weep not, 20:24 behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah... 20:27 behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah" 20:29 I can't prevail, no man in heaven... 20:32 but I can "behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah, 20:34 the root of David, He has prevailed" 20:35 and in the second verse, is Revelation 14, 20:38 "they follow the Lamb wherever He goes. " 20:41 Yvonne: Yes... 20:43 James: We are... we are called to follow, 20:45 Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men... 20:47 behold the Lamb of God, follow that... look and live," 20:48 these are all the phrases, 20:50 Old and New Testament, these are all the phrases... 20:52 Old Testament... they look forward to the Lamb, 20:53 New Testament... you look back at the Lamb, 20:55 we all center in the Lamb, "And by beholding... " 20:57 2nd Corinthians 3:18, 20:58 "By beholding we become changed... " 21:00 there's a Law... of our spiritual and physical nature 21:02 and Satan knows that Law 21:03 so when you're driving down the road, 21:05 the billboards... car radio... the media... the phone... 21:08 everything... advertisement, all kinds of garbage and stuff 21:12 coming at us to try to transform us into the beastly image, 21:16 into the image of our nature do you have a thought Ivor, 21:18 because I'll keep going if you don't have anything to say. 21:21 Ivor: I was going to share that the end result 21:28 of the 144,000... remember, 21:31 it began with Revelation chapter 6 verse 1, 21:36 there's a rider on a white horse, 21:38 that rider is called the Word of God, 21:40 it is by the Word of God that we overcome, 21:45 so he is showing the end product of what the Word of God can do 21:50 the Word of God can allow you to overcome 21:54 persecution... the red horse, 21:57 "Oh man, they're persecuting me because they... 21:59 I'm trying to keep the Sabbath and they're... " 22:01 no, God says, "You're still on the white horse 22:04 you will overcome that" compromise... 22:06 I'm so used to compromising, 22:08 one day I'm up, the other day I'm down, 22:09 God is saying, "Listen to me, 22:11 if you stay on that white horse, I will give... 22:14 I can give you victory over compromise... " 22:17 in other words, all those... 22:19 think these other horses as hurdles 22:21 and the white horse is just, hooo, hooo, hooo, 22:25 and he's getting us to the other side, 22:27 our goal is heaven, 22:29 our method of getting there... the white horse, 22:32 between us... between heaven, 22:35 between... how am I going to say it? 22:38 between heaven and our journey are these three horses, 22:41 that are trying to stop us either through persecution, 22:44 through compromise or just through total denial of God, 22:47 God says, "You stay on me, you stay on the white horse... " 22:50 James: "I'll take you through. " 22:52 Ivor: "and I will take you through. " 22:53 Yvonne: Wow... good... 22:55 Ivor: So, that's victory not only in a... 22:57 in a broad sense but really in a very personal sense 23:00 like, in your life, "Man, I used to be a drug addict... " 23:03 "I used to be a drunk... " 23:04 "I used to be addicted to these things... " 23:06 and God says, "Look, get on... get on this horse... " 23:10 and you know what happens? 23:11 We're on the horse, yeah... we get victory... 23:14 yes... we fall off the horse, 23:15 James: You take your hands off the horse. 23:17 Ivor: You take your hands off the reins... 23:19 you know... am I now like... oh man! 23:22 God says, "Get back up, get back up quickly 23:25 before one of these other horses comes and get you, 23:27 get back up and get on me... " 23:29 "But Lord, I'm depressed and discouraged... " 23:30 "no... get back up... and get on me... " 23:32 and we get back up and get on Him... 23:34 and He takes us again... Yvonne: Oh... 23:35 Ivor: So, those who are lost are those who got... 23:39 who fell off that white horse and then decided to stay on, 23:43 they decided to let one of those other horses 23:46 come and rule their lives, so God says, 23:48 "Look, I don't care how many times you fall, 23:50 if you keep getting back up and saying, 23:54 "Lord, help me with this, help me with this... " 23:55 I'm going to help you with this, 23:57 I'm going to bring you the victory 23:59 so, don't be discouraged, 24:01 I'm going to get you to the other side. 24:02 Yvonne: Look how encouraging that is... 24:04 James: Two Bible verses on that, 24:06 "A just man falls seven times, and rises up again... " 24:08 and seven is complete or perfect... 24:11 and then the other one is, Jesus says, 24:13 "He that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out... " 24:15 Yvonne: Yes... 24:16 James: If we only had that one verse, 24:17 that would be enough to get us into the kingdom. 24:19 Ivor: So, He's not saying, 24:21 "Hey, you can just keep sinning and repenting and... " 24:23 you know, that's not the gospel, 24:25 the purpose of the gospel is not "Hey, Jesus... 24:27 He's going to forgive me 24:29 so I'm just going to do this again and again... " 24:30 Yvonne: Right... right... James: That's not good news. 24:31 Ivor: Exactly, that's not good news. 24:33 James: That's depressing. Ivor: That's depressing 24:34 for the drug addict... that's depressing for the alcoholic, 24:36 James: The same life... Ivor: Exactly. 24:38 Yvonne: There's no overcoming. 24:39 Ivor: There's no overcoming. James: And that's depressing. 24:40 Ivor: And what do the seven churches tell us? 24:43 "To him that overcomes, overcomes, overcomes, overcomes" 24:45 James: So look at this in the context... oh, go ahead. 24:48 Yvonne: I was just... that it's so exciting to me 24:51 because there are so many people struggling with sin 24:55 and they say, "Man, I just can't... 24:57 I just can't get past this, I just can't... 24:59 you know, I'm okay here but then I fall here 25:02 and then I don't want to talk to God over here 25:05 because I've fallen and so He's not going to accept me back 25:07 because I'm too bad... " no, what you are just saying 25:11 is that no matter how many times you fall, 25:14 you don't go into it planning to fall 25:17 but if you do, you ask God "to please help me with this," 25:21 it is a struggle... 25:22 for some people... we cannot succumb, 25:25 you have to continue the struggle 25:29 for some people, they will live in... 25:32 for example... an alternative lifestyle... 25:34 "that's who I am... it's not a sin... 25:37 don't say it's a sin... " James: I've tried... I've tried. 25:39 Yvonne: No, God is saying, "I've got you... 25:43 I'll bring you through you might fall, 25:46 I'll bring you through but you have to stay on the horse 25:50 you fall off, get back on... they can abide in me. " 25:54 James: Same thing, same truth yeah. 25:55 Jason: They have to make the choice, I think about when, 25:58 I believe it was Peter that stepped out of the boat, 26:01 had his eyes on Christ and then he was like, 26:03 "Wow! I'm walking on water... " the next thing you know... 26:06 bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, 26:07 "Jesus save me... " and... 26:10 James: And what happened when he said, Jesus save me?" 26:13 Yvonne: He got back up they were able to save... 26:15 James: Jesus was right there in that moment, 26:18 grabbing his hand and pulling out of that bloop, bloop, bloop. 26:21 I mean it was instant and that's what God is saying, 26:24 so Peter... the way we think about that sometimes is like 26:27 "Oh yeah, I can come out... " 26:29 and we're scared... we come out and we walk on the water 26:31 and we're like, "Whoa, look at me... " 26:32 and we fall... we're like... "Oh, I shouldn't have done that, 26:34 oh, I'll try to keep going here for a little while 26:37 and if I can keep my head above the water 26:39 for maybe a couple of minutes, 26:40 maybe then, Jesus will come and save me. " 26:42 All: Laughing... 26:43 James: You're not going to keep your head 26:45 above the water for a couple of minutes, 26:46 the only way you're ever going to keep your head... 26:47 and get your head above the water, 26:49 anything above the water is for Jesus to come and save you, 26:51 there's nothing you can do by yourself, absolutely nothing. 26:54 So we've run out of time. 26:56 Yvonne: I can't believe it. 26:57 James: Believe it, it's good stuff, 26:59 we're going to keep going, 27:00 I wanted to just give a reference... 27:02 1st John chapter 2:1 and 2 basically, 27:04 God doesn't want us to sin but if we do sin, 27:06 we have an advocate with the Father... 27:08 Yvonne: Jesus Christ the righteous. 27:09 James: It's very, very important Yvonne: Amen. 27:11 James: We also want to tell Viewers, 27:13 how they can send in their questions. 27:14 Jason: They can send an e-mail to sss@3abn. org 27:19 sss as in Salvation in Symbols and Signs. 27:21 James: All right, you heard it here and you heard it from Jason 27:23 Yvonne, would you pray us out? 27:27 Yvonne: Yes, yes, "Lord thank you so very much, 27:30 oh! thank you God that you make yourself responsible 27:33 for us as long as we abide in you, thank you 27:36 and be with us, continue to guide and direct, 27:39 we pray in Jesus' name, amen. " 27:40 All: "Amen... " 27:42 James: So we are going to get into the seal of God, 27:45 we are going to be able to do that subject 27:47 and we're going to do it next, we're just going to dive in 27:50 and I've got some verses that we're just going to share 27:52 and then we're going to just expand upon them 27:54 and probably do a little bit of, I don't know, 27:56 summary at the same time, we'll see... 27:58 Ivor: We'll see where it goes. James: Yeah. |
Revised 2016-09-27