Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000034A
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00:30 Now the Book of Revelation is challenging in and of itself
00:34 but we are in the probably 00:36 most challenging part of the Book of Revelation. 00:39 The symbols and signs in the entire book are... 00:41 well... 00:43 most people want to do a U turn 00:46 when they get to the Book of Revelation 00:47 but now we're in the seven trumpets 00:49 and specifically, Ivor, 00:51 we are in these verses in the seven trumpets 00:52 that to me are probably the most difficult 00:56 to decipher and understand and that's why I'm so thankful 00:59 that we have history already, 01:03 that we've established certain principles 01:05 as we've studied the churches and the seals 01:08 that will help us with the trumpets. 01:10 Now we've already looked at 01:11 the idea of these four prophetic cycles, 01:13 so we've seen the churches and we've seen the seals 01:17 beginning in Christ's day... in the Apostolic Age, 01:21 and then moving us through the history, prophetic history 01:24 but world history moving us all the way through 01:26 from Christ's day... all the way through to the very end of time 01:28 and the new heavens and the new earth. 01:30 In the churches we saw this, 01:32 the church of Ephesus began in the Apostolic Age... 01:34 and then, by the time we get to Laodicea 01:37 we've come all the way to our time. 01:39 Each one of the churches has promises that are given to those 01:42 who are going to be in the New Heavens and the New Earth. 01:44 "I'll make you a pillar in my temple... " 01:46 "I'll give you a new name... " "You'll sit on thrones with me" 01:48 all of that is "New Earth" language 01:50 so... then when we get to the seals 01:52 we do the same thing all over again. 01:54 The seals begin with this picture in heaven 01:56 and in the throne room 01:58 you see the Lamb... as it had been slain 02:00 and then the Spirit that's around the throne 02:03 is now sent into all the earth, 02:04 so you have the Holy Spirit being sent out, 02:06 just like... with the churches, "He that has an ear, 02:08 let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches" 02:10 so, the implication of the churches is... 02:12 the Spirit is... it's poured out, 02:13 the clear symbolism of the seals 02:16 is that the Spirit has been sent out to all the earth 02:18 and then you have this history, 02:19 you have the white horse and you have the red horse 02:21 and you have the black horse and you have the pale horse, 02:23 taking us all the way down until John sees this great multitude 02:26 around the throne that no man could number 02:28 and they are praising God and they're being led by 02:31 rivers of waters and they don't cry anymore 02:33 and the sun doesn't light on them anymore 02:35 and that's the new heaven and the new earth 02:37 and then we get to the seven trumpets 02:39 and the seven trumpets... we know already, 02:41 we've established this... begins in the Apostolic Age 02:44 how do we know that? 02:45 Because the angel that is pictured in Revelation chapter 8 02:49 verses 3, 4 and 5, is standing by the altar 02:54 and then he's pictured as taking something from the altar 02:57 that symbolizes incense 02:59 and I think it's Christ's righteousness 03:01 and he's taking to the golden altar. 03:02 Well, the golden altar is 03:05 in the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary 03:08 and the incense... 03:10 if it represents Christ's righteousness 03:11 has to be coming from the cross, 03:13 that's where Christ died for us, that's where His righteousness 03:16 His life was laid out for us 03:17 so He takes what He's done at the cross of Calvary 03:21 and He takes it to the Heavenly Sanctuary... 03:23 to the Holy Place... that happened at His ascension. 03:27 Yvonne: Hmmm... 03:28 James: I mean we know... as believers, we know right now 03:30 that Christ is actually in the very final aspect... 03:33 the final stages of His work in the Heavenly Sanctuary. 03:36 Yvonne: Does the incense not represent prayers? 03:39 I thought it represented prayers. 03:40 James: It does in Revelation chapter 5 03:43 because it says right there 03:45 that it presents the prayers of the saints 03:47 but in Revelation 8 the incense is mingled 03:50 with the prayers of the saints so that wouldn't make sense. 03:53 Ivor: We find... as the incense is rising 03:56 it symbolizes the fact the prayers of the saints 03:58 are ascending with the righteousness of Christ 04:01 without which our prayers would be... 04:04 Jason: So Christ is interceding on our behalf. 04:06 Ivor: Yeah... yes. 04:07 James: Yes, exactly and that's Ephesians 5 verse 2, 04:09 it talks there about how Christ gave Himself as a sacrifice... 04:13 a sweet smelling savor... Ephesians 5:2 says 04:16 so the incense mingles with... 04:17 and so we have the beginning of Christ's work 04:20 in the Sanctuary... now this is really powerful because 04:23 the first prophetic cycle of the churches 04:26 reveals Christ with us, incarnate, He's the Son of man 04:29 He's actually there on the isle of Patmos with John 04:32 so it's the incarnation, if you will... 04:34 it's an enactment of the incarnation. 04:36 The second prophetic cycle of the seals, 04:39 points to Christ crucified, 04:41 the lamb slain in the middle of the throne 04:43 and the third prophetic cycle of the trumpets, 04:46 points to Christ's mediation, 04:48 He's interceding with His righteousness... 04:51 with His incense... mingling it with our prayers 04:54 and then, as a result of that, 04:56 He gives us, again, the gift of His Holy Spirit. 04:59 The fire from the altar that's cast into the earth, 05:02 that's the same thing we see in the Book of Acts, 05:05 they were praying... the prayers were going up 05:09 mingling with Christ's righteousness 05:11 and then... a mighty rushing wind 05:13 and cloven tongues of fire rests on each one of them. 05:15 It's... Revelation 8 05:17 is an exact reenactment in symbolic language 05:21 of the Apostolic outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. 05:25 Ivor: I think it's important... well, this chapter is so heavy 05:28 that this is the one that we really need to pray 05:31 on this program... before we get into the seven seals 05:36 and I'm going to share something about how... 05:39 a little recap if you will about how we can know 05:41 what these trumpets are going to be talking about 05:44 so, let's pray, "Heavenly Father, 05:47 bless us as we open your Word and as we get to this 05:51 particularly difficult portion of Scripture... 05:53 we pray that you would give us wisdom and guidance. 05:55 In Jesus' name we ask it. Amen. " 05:57 All: "Amen. " 05:58 Ivor: So, you'll remember that one of the things 06:02 we've been laying out in our previous programs is 06:06 that the Book of Revelation is written on patterns 06:09 and specifically the Sanctuary Pattern 06:13 and we saw that when we understand 06:16 what's happening with the seven churches, 06:18 with the seven seals, with the seven trumpets, 06:20 the opening visions of each of these 06:22 brings us into the Holy Place, 06:25 seven churches... seven-branched candlestick, 06:28 the seven seals... the Table of Shewbread 06:31 and the seven trumpets... the Altar of Incense 06:33 and the reason that that's crucial... 06:36 for us to understand is because remember in the Old Testament 06:39 the High Priest... as He ministered at one... 06:42 he was to minister at the other, 06:44 meaning that there was a simultaneous ministry. 06:47 When we understand that it's a simultaneous ministry, 06:50 we understand that... 06:51 whatever period of time the seven churches covered, 06:55 will be the same period of time covered by the seven seals, 06:59 will be the same period of time covered by the seven trumpets, 07:03 so that again gives us a framework 07:06 because you know there are a lot of people 07:08 that are talking about the seven trumpets 07:11 and... "Oh, the seven trumpets mean this... " 07:13 because again... it's the most difficult portion 07:15 of the Book of Revelation. 07:16 So, there are all kinds of thoughts about that... 07:20 about what the seven trumpets reveal 07:21 but if you're not looking at it 07:24 within the context of the Sanctuary... 07:25 you run the very real risk of interpreting it incorrectly, 07:32 so... so these seven churches, seven seals... seven trumpets... 07:37 the nice thing about... as we go through this... 07:39 through the... when we went through the seven churches 07:42 and saw the history... well, okay, we got that... 07:44 when we started going to the seven seals, 07:46 we could say, "Okay, are we right on this? 07:48 Well, let's double check, let's go back to the churches. " 07:50 Now with the trumpets... 07:52 we can double check... we can triple check... 07:55 James: We can triple check... I like that we can triple check. 07:58 Ivor: So, we know... what are the odds... 08:03 if these all match up generally speaking... 08:07 then we know that... yeah, that can't be coincidence. 08:11 You see what I'm saying. 08:13 Yvonne: Right, right, right. 08:14 Ivor: And so, we talked about... 08:16 I think we talked about the fact that 08:18 the seven churches began to go forth... 08:20 the first church began on the day of Pentecost, 08:22 okay, the rider on the white horse... 08:25 the preaching of the gospel, the day of Pentecost... 08:28 Peter gets up and preaches this powerful sermon 08:30 where 3,000 are converted in a day... 08:32 that's the rider on the white horse, 08:36 so the first trumpet or the trumpets... 08:40 as you've just pointed out with the fire falling 08:43 in answer to the prayers of the saints 08:45 mingled with the righteousness of Christ... 08:47 the day of Pentecost... 08:48 what we're seeing here is that these visions 08:51 occur... open up... begin... 08:54 on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit falls. 08:58 So we can parallel 09:00 these churches, seals, trumpets all the way down... 09:03 knowing... whatever we're looking for 09:05 it's got to be in the general 09:07 vicinity of first church, second church, third church 09:11 all the way down to seventh church. 09:12 Jason: I need a quick refresher on the white horse, red horse, 09:15 pale horse, black horse, what do they symbolize like...? 09:19 What are... what are they? 09:20 Ivor: Well, so we... look... okay, 09:23 first four churches are Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos and Thyatira, 09:29 so, remember the first church 09:31 was the church that started out pure... 09:33 but lost their first love, 09:35 the second church was a church of persecution 09:38 the third church was a church of compromise 09:41 and the fourth church we see 09:43 is where the Papal church becomes dominant 09:47 representing the dark ages so, just knowing that, 09:51 you already have the answer to the first four horses, right? 09:54 Because the white horse... 09:55 the gospel... going forth in great power, 09:58 the red horse... persecution... 10:00 "Oh, hey, that matches the first church... 10:02 matches the second church... 10:04 the rider on the black horse 10:06 with a pair of scales in his hands... 10:09 compromise... 10:10 "Oh, wow, that's exactly what happened 10:12 in the third church period" 10:14 and then the fourth church... the rider on the pale horse... 10:16 we see actually brings us into dark ages 10:19 and even down to the investigative... 10:22 James: The rise of Atheism... 10:24 Ivor: Yeah, the rise of Atheism... 10:25 that's right, the rise of Atheism... 10:27 James: The judgment comes in the fifth... 10:28 and the fifth seal also in parallel. 10:29 Ivor: So, again we're able to check these... our conclusions 10:34 with what we've already laid... 10:36 what we've established in the seven churches. 10:38 So when you're... when you're studying on your own 10:41 and you're like, "Wait a minute... 10:43 what is the second trumpet again?" 10:45 What would you want to do? 10:47 You want to go back to the churches and say, 10:50 "Okay, okay, what's the second church?" 10:52 "What's the second horse?" 10:54 Ivor: Exactly... and that becomes a way 10:57 where you can... anywhere you fall... 10:59 sixth church... okay... let me go to the sixth seal... 11:02 or let me go to the sixth trumpet and you can look 11:04 and actually see... get a better idea of what you're looking for. 11:08 James: And here's an important point 11:10 just to add and build on what Ivor's saying... 11:12 so, while it repeats that history... 11:15 it will also add some details... 11:17 there may be some things in the trumpets 11:19 that we didn't find in the seals, 11:20 there may be some things in the seals 11:21 that we didn't find in the churches 11:23 about that same period of time. 11:24 Yvonne: The whole repeat and enlarge... 11:25 James: Yes and enlarging... and we're not... 11:28 we're not dogmatic about this... there's some flexibility here 11:31 in other words... there's some wiggle room... 11:33 God isn't saying, "Well, this trumpet... 11:34 started on this day and this day 11:36 and ends on this day and this day" 11:37 there's some overlap that takes place there 11:39 so we need to be flexible and then there is... 11:42 there's more meaning to what we're looking at 11:44 than may be that first meets our eyes, 11:47 God is able to put so much meaning 11:48 in this... in the Scripture... 11:50 and I think we've all seen that as we go through this, 11:52 we go back to the Old Testament saying, 11:53 "Whoa, the Old Testament is coming alive... " 11:57 as we use it as a way of magnifying the symbols 11:59 in the Book of Revelation, that really help us 12:02 so we have to understand the stories in the Old Testament. 12:05 Those stories lay a groundwork for interpreting... 12:07 like, for example, in the church of Thyatira, 12:11 we hear about the person of Jezebel... 12:13 well, Jezebel... that's from the Old Testament 12:15 so, we've got to go back to the Old Testament 12:18 and read and understand the story of Jezebel 12:20 to understand what she's doing in the church of Thyatira 12:24 and we find out that Jezebel was someone who compromised 12:27 the truth of God's Word... and led the nation of Israel 12:30 through the influence she had on her husband, Ahab, 12:33 into apostasy and rebellion against God 12:36 and then sought to kill God's prophets 12:38 and they had to hide from her 12:39 whoa... that is bringing us to the Dark Ages 12:43 and the same compromise that took place 12:45 and the same influence... 12:47 the false prophets and the religious leaders have on kings 12:49 and the same persecution that came against God's people... 12:53 they had to hide in caves... so we see that story opening up 12:56 the symbolism of what's taking place here in Thyatira. 12:58 Ivor: James, let me add something here real quick... 13:01 just to emphasize on the point you just made, 13:03 listen to the fourth trumpet, 13:06 we're not going to talk about what it is yet 13:07 but remember the terms he just used... 13:09 and he didn't... he wasn't... we didn't plan this... 13:12 so he just said, "This is a period 13:14 where there is... the Dark Ages 13:16 and he's led Israel into a period of darkness" 13:18 now listen to the fourth trumpet, 13:20 "The fourth angel sounded, 13:22 and the third part of the sun was smitten, 13:24 and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; 13:27 so as the third part of them was darkened, 13:30 and the day shone not for a third part of it, 13:33 and the night likewise. " 13:35 I don't know what the fourth trumpet is yet, 13:38 right, but man! whatever it is wow, it's dark... 13:41 and it seems to parallel what we just talked about 13:44 in the fourth church which we know has to deal with Dark Ages 13:49 so, again, without even knowing yet what the fourth trumpet is, 13:53 we now have a clue that we're not looking for something 13:56 that's going to happen in the future, 13:59 we're looking for something that must generally match 14:02 the events under the fourth church. 14:06 Does that make sense? 14:07 Yvonne: Yeah... yes, yes, yes, it's good... 14:09 the four prophetic cycles are the churches, the seals, 14:13 the trumpets and what was the fourth one? 14:15 James: We called it the woman, the dragon and the beast 14:19 but I recently... as I've done more study on this, 14:22 I want to call it the seven vials... 14:25 the seven churches, the seven seals, 14:27 the seven trumpets and the seven vials... 14:29 and here's why... it begins in Revelation chapter 12 14:32 with the recap... Revelation 12, 13 and 14 are a recap 14:36 of the gospel, the conflict, the compromise... 14:39 everything that's happened but the main gist... 14:42 of the last cycle... is judgment. 14:44 James: 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, it's all judgment, 14:48 God is wrapping it up and it's so overwhelmingly 14:52 powerful... in the way that God is dealing with the sin problem 14:56 that he has to recap in 12 through 14, 14:59 He has to recap the apostasy... and His last effort 15:02 the everlasting gospel... the three angels' messages 15:04 to take the undiluted truth to all the world, 15:07 it has to recap that... so everyone knows 15:09 why he's allowing this judgment to finally come 15:11 so the seven vials... 15:12 Ivor: Yeah, let me add to that, 15:14 again, we're talking about patterns 15:15 and notice where the seven vials occur... 15:18 the vials and the emphasis of recap... 15:21 begins in Revelation chapter 12 15:23 Revelation chapter 11 verses 17 onward... 15:28 introduces us for the first time to the Most Holy Place 15:32 now, remember, seven churches, seals, trumpets, 15:36 they all unfold where? In the Holy Place... right, 15:40 in the Sanctuary there were two ministrations 15:44 the ministration in the Holy Place 15:46 and then the ministration of the Most Holy Place 15:48 was the Day of Atonement, 15:50 at the end of the Day of Atonement... 15:52 those who had not made themselves right with God 15:54 were cut off... 15:56 Ivor: So, it's significant that we find the seven vials 16:01 unfolding within the context of the Most Holy Place. 16:06 The whole book of Revelation 16:08 is based on the pattern of the Sanctuary. 16:11 Yvonne: Wow! 16:13 Ivor: The first three cycles... Holy Place... 16:16 the last cycle... the events that occur... 16:19 the Most Holy Place and afterward... 16:22 so when we can step back from the Book of Revelation 16:25 and see it... wow! there it is... the two halves... 16:28 we can see this one whole... 16:30 we're stepping back and looking at the forest 16:31 because, like I said, a lot of people jump into the trees 16:34 and don't understand the context of the forest 16:37 when we can steps back and see the forest, 16:39 "Ah, I get this now, now when I go into the trees, 16:42 I know where I am within the context of the forest, 16:45 I'm not lost... " like, okay, 16:47 "This must mean this and this must mean that... " 16:49 Yvonne: Yeah... yeah... 16:50 James: Good, so let's... let's go right now 16:53 into Revelation chapter 8, can we do that? 16:55 You guys feel pretty confident doing that? 16:56 Yvonne: Yeah... yeah... 16:58 James: So, we've already... again, in recap... 17:00 we've already begun this... this third prophetic cycle, 17:03 so we've already started the seven trumpets... 17:05 and what we've done basically... 17:07 is we've seen that the seven trumpets that are given, 17:09 that John sees... given to these seven angels 17:11 are put on hold for just a few verses 17:13 and they're put on hold because you have this picture 17:16 that we've already discussed 17:17 of this angel getting incense from the altar, 17:20 the cross, the righteousness of Christ, 17:22 His sacrifice... Ephesians 5:2 and he takes that sacrifice 17:26 and he mingles it with the prayers of the saints 17:29 in the Holy Place or before the golden throne, 17:32 okay, so you've got this picture of Christ interceding 17:35 and that has to come before the trumpets start to blow. 17:37 Yvonne: Hmmm... 17:39 James: Because indeed Jesus said to His disciples, 17:41 "I'll be leaving... I'm going to heaven... 17:43 and I'm going to come back... " excuse me... 17:44 "I'm going to send my Spirit back 17:46 so when I go... the Spirit's going to come" 17:48 that's what we see taking place in those verses 17:50 "And when He comes, you're going to be filled... 17:51 and I want you to preach the gospel to Jerusalem first 17:54 then to Samaria and then to the uttermost parts of the world" 17:58 because when that gospel is preached... 18:00 it prepares the world to make a decision 18:03 for or against God and then judgment can come. 18:05 The trumpets are by and large judgments that are coming 18:08 and so what happens is first of all... Jesus says in Matthew 24 18:12 the gospel is going to be preached 18:13 and then the first thing that's going to happen 18:15 within this generation... 18:16 and we're talking about Biblically speaking, 18:19 about 40 years is that this temple is going to be destroyed 18:22 not one stone is going to be left upon another 18:25 that will not be thrown down, 18:26 so Revelation 8 is basically a short, symbolic analysis 18:30 of what Jesus says in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21, 18:34 He's basically saying, "First the gospel gets preached 18:38 as this Holy Spirit is poured out upon you, 18:40 to all these nations... first to Jerusalem 18:41 and then... after the gospel is preached... 18:43 boom... the trumpet blows, Jerusalem comes down... " 18:46 so the first angel that sounds is... in our previous program... 18:51 is the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70... 18:54 we have the blood and hail mingled with fire 18:57 and all of those symbolize... they're not literal 19:00 because blood and hail mingled with fire falling out of the sky 19:03 can't... we can't literally see that as happening so 19:06 what it is... it's a symbol. 19:07 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 19:09 Ivor: Let me add here that the reason that we know 19:11 that is because... on the day of Pentecost when fire falls 19:14 Peter gets up to preach 19:15 and when he preaches he quotes from Joel chapter 2. 19:18 James: Yes. 19:19 Ivor: Joel chapter 2 begins... "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion" 19:22 it was a warning... in that same chapter, 19:25 it talks about blood and fire, blood and hail mingled with fire 19:29 it talks about all these things and then Peter says, 19:31 "Hey, what Joel spoke... you're seeing these things... 19:34 these things are about to happen" 19:36 and you're looking up in the sky like, 19:37 "blood and smoke... I don't see any of that" 19:40 but guess what it was... 19:41 it was a description of the destruction 19:43 that was coming upon Jerusalem 19:45 which is exactly what Peter was warning, 19:47 that's why he quoted Joel chapter 2 19:48 because in Joel 2... it says, "A nation is coming... " 19:51 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 19:52 Ivor: "If you don't repent... a nation is coming" 19:55 and guess what? 70 A.D. that nation came. 19:58 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 19:59 Ivor: And it was this... the destruction of Jerusalem. 20:01 James: And we saw trees burned up 20:02 and we saw green grass burned up, 20:04 and in the Bible... trees represent Leaders... 20:07 Nebuchadnezzar was likened under a tree... 20:09 Jesus even likened Himself to a tree... 20:11 and then grass... represents people 20:13 specially people who are wicked, 20:15 "all flesh is grass" "the wicked are like grass" 20:18 and so when it says the trees and the grass... 20:20 it's talking about the Leaders in Jerusalem 20:23 who had misled the people and then all of the people 20:25 over a million people lost their lives 20:28 in the destruction of Jerusalem 20:30 and the blood ran down the steps, 20:32 the Romans even pled with them, 20:34 they didn't want to destroy that temple, 20:35 they didn't want to destroy Jerusalem but it was prophetic 20:37 and God had said it was going to happen... 20:39 "not one stone will be left upon another 20:41 that will not be thrown down. " 20:43 Ivor: Remember that Jesus Himself 20:44 talked about the fig tree and when He cursed the fig tree, 20:50 it was a symbol of the fall of the Jewish nation, 20:54 so it is not insignificant, this is not coincidence here 20:58 that the symbol of the tree is used 21:01 to denote the fall of Israel. 21:03 Yvonne: Hmmm... 21:04 James: Okay and so then... we're looking at the... 21:06 the... that was the first trumpet which we've covered... 21:09 we're just kind of reviewing right now 21:10 and that was verse 7 21:12 and now we're looking at the second angel 21:14 and we did cover this already but I'm going to review 21:16 just a little bit of this verse, verse 8... 21:18 "And the second angel sounds, and as it were a great mountain 21:23 burning with fire was cast into the sea: 21:26 and the third part of the sea became blood... " 21:28 now, again, this is either literal or it's symbolic, 21:31 we are going to stay with symbolism, 21:35 we believe that they started out symbolic in these trumpets 21:38 and it's going to continue to be symbolic. 21:40 So when we're looking at a mountain burning with fire, 21:42 and we've already identified this so I'm just reviewing... 21:45 The mountain burning with fire in the Old Testament... 21:48 the mountain was a symbol of a kingdom or a government 21:52 in... I think it was... Isaiah, no... Jeremiah 51... 21:56 the mountain was a symbol of Babylon 21:58 and in Daniel chapter 2, 22:01 God's kingdom is likened to a mountain 22:03 that fills the whole earth 22:04 but when a mountain is burning with fire, 22:06 that means... judgment is coming upon it 22:08 because fire symbolizes judgment 22:10 in the context of this "burning up" 22:12 and so, here you have this judgment coming upon a kingdom 22:16 and that kingdom is pagan Rome 22:19 and the reason why we know it's pagan Rome is 22:21 because trumpets in the Bible, we've already identified 22:24 as being blown for God's people to go forward, 22:27 in Jericho they went forward and Jericho came down, 22:30 God's people go forward and God brings His enemies down 22:34 and in the early church, there were two specific powers 22:37 that were the enemies of God's people 22:39 and those powers were given an opportunity to hear the gospel 22:42 and accept the gospel or to avert the judgment, 22:45 and those who didn't receive the gospel... 22:48 judgment was coming to them, 22:49 judgment first came to Jerusalem 22:51 and then it was going to come to Pagan Rome 22:52 and that's why Jesus said, 22:54 remember that verse where Jesus says, 22:55 "You see what I've done to this fig tree, 22:57 I say unto you, you say unto this mountain, 22:59 'be moved and cast into the sea' and it shall be done. " 23:03 Incredible... how Jesus... what He understood... 23:08 and the way He presented truth to us, 23:10 in other words... in that single verse, 23:12 Jesus is explaining Jerusalem and Pagan Rome. 23:16 Ivor: Yeah. Yvonne: Wow! 23:17 James: Jerusalem is the fig tree pagan Rome is the mountain. 23:19 Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm... 23:20 James: The fig tree is coming down... it's going to be cursed 23:21 and the mountain is going to be cast into the sea 23:23 and so, Jesus is using the same language here in Revelation 23:26 when He's talking about the trees being burned up 23:29 and then the mountain being cast into the sea. 23:31 Here's what's interesting, Ivor, 23:33 and I know you understand this too, 23:35 the sea represents peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues, 23:39 when Rome fell... it wasn't conquered by another nation, 23:43 like it had conquered Greece 23:45 and Greece had conquered Medo-Persia 23:46 and Medo-Persia had conquered Babylon, 23:48 it was swallowed up 23:49 by the peoples and nations and tongues of Europe. 23:52 Yvonne: Hmmm... 23:53 James: So, it was cast into the sea. 23:54 Ivor: There was in-fighting... James: Yes. 23:56 Ivor: And one of the things we saw about the trumpets... 23:58 remember... three things you saw about the trumpets, 23:59 Number One: In Numbers 10... 24:01 when the trumpets were blown, God's people advanced. 24:03 Yvonne: Hmmm... 24:04 Ivor: Number Two... when the trumpets are blown, 24:05 God's enemies fall... 24:07 the enemies fall... so that His people can advance 24:10 and Number Three... the story of Gideon... 24:11 when the trumpet was blown... 24:13 they turned their swords on one another, 24:14 Rome and Jerusalem... 24:16 that worked together to put Jesus to death... 24:20 Rome turns on Jerusalem and destroys it. 24:22 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... Ivor: People of God advance, 24:24 Rome... that persecuted the church 24:27 during the 2nd and 3rd century, turns on itself... in-fighting. 24:30 That in-fighting gives God's people... space and time... 24:34 to advance... we're seeing a pattern that 24:36 God uses Satan's own weapons on himself. 24:39 Yvonne: Right... right... 24:41 James: So it's amazing really when you see the symbolism here 24:45 because all of it makes sense in the context 24:48 of the prophetic parallels that we've been looking at, 24:50 in the context of the way the Bible identifies these symbols 24:53 and in the flow of the history that we're seeing in the world. 24:57 So we look at the Bible... 24:59 we allow the Bible to interpret itself, 25:01 we'll allow the Bible to interpret the symbols 25:03 and then we look for the history and we notice the parallels, 25:06 the prophetic parallels that repeat and enlarge each other 25:09 and those... all those principles help us 25:12 to affirm the interpretation that we're giving right here. 25:15 Yvonne: Right... 25:16 James: And that's what we need to do, 25:17 we got to allow the Bible to affirm and interpret itself 25:20 and then we are on track... and it all starts making sense. 25:23 Yvonne: I love the way you guys have... by the grace of God 25:27 under the unction of the Holy Spirit 25:29 and just pull from different verses 25:32 to show the cohesiveness here 25:34 that... no... this is not just an isolated Book, 25:38 this is cohesiveness... stuff from the Old Testament 25:42 and other parts of the New Testament 25:45 just pulling it all together, 25:46 it's just... it's fascinating to me. 25:48 Jason: It's got Christ on every page... 25:49 Yvonne: Yes... yes. 25:50 Jason: I remember hearing a sermon 25:52 when Christ was on every page. 25:54 Yvonne: Yes... yes... 25:55 James: And that's what we want to do... 25:56 as we go through Revelation, 25:58 we want to be looking for Christ in the gospels 26:00 really this is not just about history and events, 26:02 this is really about the gospel 26:05 and it's about... what happens when the gospel is preached, 26:08 how that gospel affects and determines 26:10 the destiny of nations and individuals 26:13 and how every one's hearts and lives are tested 26:16 by the proclamation of that gospel... 26:18 if we have those glasses on 26:20 as we look at the Book of Revelation, 26:21 it's really going to make sense, 26:23 everything is going to come together 26:25 and we're going to see the big picture in the end, 26:27 it's all about following the Lamb wherever He goes 26:29 so that He can keep us from 26:31 the beast and the dragon and the deception 26:33 that's coming upon the world in the end of time. 26:35 So I know there are people who are going to be asking 26:37 about this program as far as input, questions, 26:42 all kinds of materials that 26:45 hopefully will be available soon, 26:47 how are they going to do that? 26:49 Jason: They should send an e- mail to: sss 26:52 as in Salvation in Symbols and Signs 26:54 @3abn. org 26:55 we'd love video submissions, 26:58 we've been receiving a lot of e-mails 27:00 but we love video submissions 27:01 so we can roll it into the program. 27:03 So, if we receive a video from somewhere, 27:05 we're actually going to roll that in the program. 27:08 Well, say, "Okay, we just had a question from Joe 27:11 down in Alabama and he's asking about... " 27:13 and we put him on... 27:15 Jason: Yes... we would love to 27:16 so they can be on 3abn, they can join us. 27:19 James: Here's your opportunity to join us. 27:20 Yvonne: That's right... 27:22 James: All right, well, we didn't really get into... 27:24 we haven't really picked up yet on where we left off 27:27 but I think our review was really good. 27:29 Yvonne: Oh yes... yes... James: It was good for all of us 27:30 and hopefully good for our audience 27:31 and those who are watching... so our Viewers... 27:33 so as we pick up... in our next program, 27:36 we're going to pick up in Revelation chapter 8 27:38 and we're going to be transitioning now 27:40 from verse 8 to verse 9... this is new territory... 27:42 it's going to be a little challenging but 27:44 I think, it's going to be a blessing 27:46 for those of us who are keen on understanding the symbols 27:50 in the Book of Revelation. 27:51 Yvonne: Yes, yes. 27:53 James: So far so good? 27:54 Yvonne: Oh yeah... yeah... 27:55 James: All right, looking forward to continuing 27:57 our program and for God's continued leading. 27:59 Yvonne: Amen... amen. |
Revised 2016-11-17