Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000036A
|
00:29 Okay, so we're continuing our study in Revelation 7 trumpets
00:33 and we have, right now, moved from the second to the third 00:37 and we're not quite finished with the third... 00:40 we spent a little bit of time there... talking about the Lamb 00:42 and the angel that fell from heaven... 00:45 the star that fell from heaven, we identified as Lucifer 00:47 according to Isaiah 14... 00:49 and bringing us a lamp... the Word of God 00:51 so it's a counterfeit of God's Word... 00:53 according to Psalm 119:105 00:55 falling upon the rivers and fountains of waters, 00:58 rivers, fountains of waters representing the gospel, 01:01 the proclamation of truth, the righteous 01:04 and those who are turning away 01:07 because it's turning them into wormwood or bitterness 01:10 and we... that's what we got to spend more time on, I think, 01:12 is verse 11, and we'll talk about that. 01:14 So, Jason, will you start with a word of prayer 01:17 and we'll get right into 01:19 and continue our study in the third trumpet. 01:21 Jason: All right, "Dear Heavenly Father, 01:23 we ask that you would please bless us with your Holy Spirit 01:27 to lead us into all truth as we study your Word, 01:31 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. " 01:32 All: "Amen... " 01:33 James: All right, so, Yvonne, 01:35 can you read for us then... let's just pick up... 01:37 well, actually, let's read verse 10 01:39 just so that we get the context so verse 10 and then verse 11. 01:41 Yvonne: Sure, "And the third angel sounded, 01:44 and there fell a great star from heaven, 01:46 burning as it were a lamp, 01:47 and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, 01:50 and upon the fountains of waters; 01:51 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: 01:54 and the third part of the waters became wormwood; 01:57 and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. " 02:01 James: Okay, so this again is symbolic 02:04 and we've got to look up the words... 02:07 get a Biblical perspective on them... 02:09 Ivor, you started us out on that 02:12 with some insights on wormwood... 02:14 Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm... 02:16 James: And the bitterness... and I think you talked about 02:17 in relation to Christ being the tree 02:20 that was put into the waters to make them sweet 02:22 so, "wormwood" from that perspective 02:24 is an absence of Christ 02:26 and we see Christ being taken out 02:28 in the Dark Ages in the compromise... 02:29 Christ is taken out and compromise takes place 02:33 with the gospel... 02:34 I wanted to share a couple of other verses 02:36 that would confirm that... affirm that... 02:39 and bring us a little bit further into understanding that, 02:41 the first one is in Deuteronomy 29, 02:43 Deuteronomy 29 and verse 18 and this verse here 02:49 indicates that "wormwood" is when we turn away from God 02:54 so it says, basically, the same thing you were talking about 02:56 "wormwood" is basically when we turn away from God 02:59 so Deuteronomy 29 verse 18... 03:02 Jason, you want to read that for us? 03:03 Jason: Sure. James: If you can find it. 03:05 Jason: All right... oops no... that's not it... 03:08 hold on... Deuteronomy 29:18? 03:15 Jason: Scrolling, scrolling, scrolling... there we go... 03:20 "Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, 03:24 or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day 03:27 from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods 03:30 of these nations; lest there should be among you 03:33 a root that beareth gall and wormwood... " 03:37 James: It's interesting isn't it the way he's talking there, 03:39 he's saying... to bear wormwood... 03:42 to bear a bit of wormwood and gall... 03:44 is to serve other gods... 03:45 is to turn away from God and serve other gods. 03:47 Ivor: Idols... 03:48 James: Idols and its very interesting because 03:51 here you got this incredible Book of Revelation 03:53 and all it does is... it simply borrows... borrows... 03:56 borrows... it's already... 03:58 God has already written all the stuff and God said, 04:00 "Oh, I'll put that verse... oh, I'll put that word in there 04:01 and they'll go look up 'wormwood' 04:03 and they'll remember all the other things I told them" 04:04 but here's the point, 04:06 God doesn't necessarily want us to pick and choose 04:08 like, "Oh, there's a verse... 04:10 oh, there's another verse... I'll put... " 04:11 He wants us to read the whole story. 04:14 He wants us to get a picture of the whole story 04:17 what's happening in the Old Testament... 04:18 one of the ways that God keeps us 04:21 is by reminding us of His leadings in the past. 04:23 So we read through these stories 04:25 and we get a picture of it and then... poom! 04:28 we plug in the symbol... we plug in the meaning... 04:29 so, that's one of them. 04:31 Ivor: Wait, before you move on, let's look at the context of 04:34 Deuteronomy 29:18... 04:35 James: That's what we're talking about, okay. 04:36 Ivor: Were you're going there? 04:38 James: No, I was going to somewhere else. 04:40 Ivor: Before you go there... 04:41 because, what's really interesting is that 04:43 back up in verse 12... it tells us here 04:48 verse 12... "That thou shouldest 04:50 enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, 04:53 and into his oath, 04:54 which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day... " 04:57 the whole context of Deuteronomy 29 04:59 is the context of the covenant and God says, 05:02 "Look, I'm watching some of your children... 05:04 those that are gathered with you, 05:05 those that are not here today, 05:06 remember this covenant, remember how I led you... " 05:09 and then He goes into verse 18 where it says, 05:12 "Look, you've seen the other nations and the gods 05:14 that they took to themselves so, remember my covenant... 05:18 don't defy yourselves with these other gods... " 05:23 the reason why that is... 05:25 that context is so powerful to understand 05:28 is because what's happening in this time period, 05:30 is that there's a forsaking of the covenant of the Lord 05:33 and they are in the place of the covenant... 05:36 taking to them other gods which produces wormwood. 05:40 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 05:42 Ivor: If you were to take... 05:43 remember we were in the third trumpet here, right? 05:46 Jason: Right. Yvonne: Hmmm... 05:48 Ivor: So, what can we parallel this to? 05:49 Third church... right... and in the third church 05:53 I believe this is Revelation chapter 2 verse 14, 05:57 it actually says there that.. 05:58 "I have somewhat against thee because 05:59 you have them there that teach the doctrine of Balaam 06:02 that taught the children of Israel 06:05 to become a stumbling block and to worship... " 06:09 what? "Idols... " 06:10 Yvonne: Yes... 06:11 Ivor: Idols... so when you can parallel, 06:13 right, which is what we're doing 06:15 again, when you get to like the 5th and 6th trumpet... 06:17 James: The parallel... 06:20 Ivor: this is key because even with the 5th and 6th trumpet... 06:23 we were just talking about this that there's a lot of different, 06:25 "Oh, the 5th and 6th trumpet... 06:27 we think it's this or it's that" 06:29 but when you have these checks and balances 06:32 that keep you in the parameter of... you know... 06:35 okay... we know what we're looking for 06:37 and it's no longer guess work... 06:39 it's, "I'm stepping back, I see the big picture... 06:41 I'm seeing these parallel" 06:43 and so back to "wormwood... " 06:44 we're seeing wormwood representing 06:47 a denial of the covenant... a worshipping of idols... 06:50 and this is exactly what is going on in this time period. 06:53 James: Yeah, I'm just... I'm pretty excited about this 06:56 principle... and a thought keeps coming to my brain 07:00 and it's jumping way forward in a sense... 07:02 but I just want to throw it out there since you brought this up 07:05 we're going to see an affliction take place 07:08 in trumpets 5 and 6, they're called "wolves" 07:11 and they're God's way of disciplining... 07:13 bringing affliction in order to bring to a... 07:16 a call to repentance 07:17 and in the 4th church... the church of Thyatira 07:21 who has the woman Jezebel, 07:22 "I would put her into a bed of affliction, 07:25 I will give her space to repent, 07:27 I'll give her time to repent of her idol worship" 07:29 and that parallels the 5th and 6th because 07:32 it says, "And they repented not of their worship of idols" 07:34 at the end of this... 07:36 "they repented... she repented not of their worship of idols 07:37 and with their gold and silver" and I'm thinking, 07:39 "Whoa... " so, definitely what Ivor's saying here is 07:41 so powerful... because all the way through 07:43 we have this checks and balances that help us to see 07:45 if we're in the right course. 07:47 Ivor: So we know that 5 and 6... trumpets 5 and 6 then 07:49 just on what you just said, 07:50 must be something in response to this woman Jezebel 07:55 in church 4, right, 07:58 which says, "Hey, she's not repenting... 08:00 all right... we're going to have this happen 08:02 and let's see what happens... let's see if they repent" 08:05 but what does it say? "They repented not. " 08:07 So all these things help us to go, 08:09 "Yeah, you know what, this book is not thrown together... 08:11 we're not just pulling pieces here and there... 08:13 there is actually a divine design 08:17 in the Book of Revelation. " 08:19 Yvonne: For sure, for sure. 08:22 James: Divine design... Ivor: Divine design... 08:23 James: I've got to remember that... yeah, that's a really 08:25 good phrase... okay, here's a another verse. 08:26 Yvonne: I have a quick question. James: Yes. 08:28 Yvonne: So, the whole "Jezebel" thing... 08:29 when a woman is brought up in Revelation, it's often... 08:34 as relates to the church. James: It is. 08:37 Yvonne: Jezebel... does she represent a wicked church? 08:40 James: Yes. 08:41 Yvonne: Not just a spirit of an evil woman 08:44 but a church... an apostate church. 08:46 James: Yes. Yvonne: Okay. 08:47 James: She represents an apostate church, 08:49 so, here's a woman who is symbolizing an apostate church 08:53 because when you go back to the history, 08:54 you see that this woman, herself, 08:56 turned away from God and turned others away from God 09:00 and then persecuted God's people... 09:02 specifically the prophets, they had to hide in a cave. 09:05 Ivor: A harlot in the Bible 09:07 is one that does not abide by wedding vows 09:11 okay, it's one that doesn't regard wedding vows 09:14 and so you think about Christ and His bride, 09:17 they have wedding vows, Christ proposed to the church 09:22 at the cross, "Will you marry me? 09:24 This is how much I love you... this is how much I love you, 09:27 will you marry me?" Yvonne: Yes, yes. 09:28 Right, but you're not marrying when someone proposes to you, 09:31 you're only married after you exchange vows. 09:33 Yvonne: And you go through the covenant. 09:35 Ivor: Exactly, and the vows are the covenant, 09:37 so, Christ is like, 09:39 "Do you promise to have no other gods before me?" 09:41 "I do... " 09:43 "Do you promise not to take my name in vain 09:46 or worship any graven images?" "I do. " 09:49 But the church that says, "These vows, man, 09:53 they're legalistic. " What? I mean... 09:56 when you're in love... the wedding vow is never legalistic. 10:00 James: Nothing's legalistic. 10:01 Ivor: Nothing... when you're not in love, 10:03 your wedding vows are bondage... 10:04 "What have I gotten myself into?" 10:06 Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 10:07 Ivor: So, the harlot is like... 10:09 "No, I don't want these wedding vows, 10:10 I still want to be called by your name... 10:12 but I'm not going to obey the vows. " 10:13 Yvonne: Hmmm... 10:14 Ivor: So any church that is against the commandments of God, 10:18 represents... or is symbolic of what we're looking at here. 10:21 Yvonne: Wow! 10:22 James: And that's what we find in this verse... 10:24 this next verse which is in Amos chapter 5 and verse 7 10:28 it's really interesting, it says, 10:31 "You who turn judgment to wormwood, 10:34 and leave off righteousness in the earth... " 10:37 so, so... wormwood here 10:40 is likened unto "leaving righteousness off in the earth, 10:43 forsaking righteousness, turning away from righteousness" 10:47 well, if you combine that verse with Jeremiah 23 and verse 6, 10:50 there Jeremiah tells us that Jesus Christ 10:53 is going to be called, "the Lord our righteousness. " 10:56 Yvonne: Hmmm... 10:57 James: "The Lord our righteousness," so... so... 10:59 to leave off righteousness is to leave off the Lord... 11:02 is to have an unfaithful relationship with the Lord, 11:04 it's to refuse that covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. 11:07 Ivor: The water without the tree. 11:08 James: The water without the tree. 11:10 Yvonne: Hmmm... 11:11 James: Bitter... bitter... I love that, 11:14 okay, so those are two more verses that just affirm 11:18 what's taking place here as we look at 11:20 Revelation chapter 8 and verse 10 or excuse me, 11:25 verse 11... the name of that star is called wormwood. 11:27 So now, this is really interesting, 11:29 the name of that star... 11:30 now the word, "name" represents His character. 11:33 This star... this fallen angel, 11:36 this messenger that fell from heaven, 11:39 his character is wormwood, 11:40 his character is turning people away from Jesus, 11:42 his character is turning people away 11:44 from a covenant relationship with God, 11:45 his character is turning people away from the Law of God. 11:47 That's his purpose, that's his character... 11:50 that's what... that's the kind of character that he's developed 11:53 and so, then you have to ask yourself the question, 11:56 "What kind of character are we developing 11:58 if we're doing the same things?" 11:59 We're developing the same character as the deceiver, 12:02 as the accuser... as the one who's fallen... 12:04 as the fallen angel and that's what's taking place here 12:07 in the context of these verses and we can affirm those 12:10 that in history... so what happens? 12:11 "The third part of the waters become bitter... wormwood: 12:15 and many men died of the waters, 12:17 because they were made bitter. " 12:19 What does that mean? Waters represent the gospel, 12:23 they represent life... the water of life... 12:24 I wanted to give a couple of references on this 12:26 but if they're made bitter then, the people are dying 12:31 because the waters don't have the tree... 12:34 they don't have Christ, they're bitter, 12:36 they're "Christless" Christless doctrines... 12:40 Christless teachings, legalism, righteousness by works 12:44 all of the different church traditions 12:47 that you needed to follow 12:49 without Christ in the middle of it. 12:51 Now, are we in danger of the same thing? 12:53 I think every Denomination is, I really do. 12:56 I think Catholicism is something that we like to 12:59 try to put in a little neat corner over here 13:01 and say, "Well, we're not like them" 13:03 but I think it's really the religion of a natural heart. 13:05 When you combine Christianity with Paganism, 13:09 you've come to the religion of the natural heart, 13:12 what we're naturally inclined to do. 13:14 Adam and Eve were naturally inclined to do that. 13:16 Remember when they sewed fig leaves together? 13:18 They were naturally trying to cover their nakedness 13:21 and we're still trying to cover our nakedness 13:23 so, Cain and Abel... 13:24 Cain was bringing the fruits of his hands, 13:26 fruits of his labors to God and it's interesting that 13:31 that there are certain sacrificial requirements 13:36 that involve fruit but this one didn't... 13:38 this one involved putting your faith 13:40 totally in the sacrifice of the Lamb... of Jesus... 13:43 so, that's our natural inclination, 13:45 we can't put it off over here 13:46 to another Denomination necessarily, 13:48 we need to be aware of it 13:49 but the history is really clear here... 13:51 the history of the development of this power in the earth 13:56 it will cause many people to die 13:59 and be made bitter to be without Christ... 14:01 even though they may have had the church, 14:02 they didn't have Jesus. 14:04 James: Any other thoughts on the third trumpet 14:07 or any other questions about it? 14:09 Ivor: Well, I would just point out here that 14:12 we're going to... we're going to see something 14:15 that's another important point for us to consider 14:18 as we're looking at these upcoming trumpets. 14:20 James: Okay. Ivor: Is that there is no... 14:22 under the first trumpet... it was the fall of Jerusalem, 14:25 the second trumpet... the fall of Rome, 14:28 we don't have a "fall" here. 14:30 James: Right, in a sense... we have a compromise. 14:32 Ivor: There's a compromise but it's not a fall. 14:35 Ivor: What power are we talking about here? 14:37 This is the Papal Power, right, 14:40 so we're talking about 14:42 God's true people who were living this time... 14:46 would have been able to look and see the effects 14:50 of this bitter water... 14:52 men don't have peace... 14:53 this gospel... something's wrong with this gospel... 14:56 the waters are bitter, you see what I'm saying? 14:58 But it still wasn't a fall... 15:00 remember, we're talking about the Papacy here, 15:01 the Papacy does not fall until 1798 15:07 so what we're going to see... 15:08 I'm kind of like giving you a sneak preview here, 15:10 is that trumpets 3, 4, 5 and 6 will all be... will all assist 15:18 in the fall of the Papacy by 1798. 15:23 Yvonne: Ah... they kind of lead up to... 15:26 Ivor: Exactly, these events so, this is a spiritual... 15:30 this trumpet is spiritual in nature. 15:33 It's talking about doctrines and teachings 15:35 and again I'm jumping ahead, 15:39 I don't want to jump too far ahead but 15:40 remember that the Papacy is... well, I'm just going to say... 15:44 you're going to have to wait, I'm sorry... 15:45 James: Let me fill in here and just pick up right there. 15:49 So, this is really significant because in the 4th church, 15:52 Thyatira... Jezebel is given time to repent 15:56 she's given time... so Jerusalem they had their time 16:00 and so we pick it up right where they're ready for final judgment 16:03 Pagan Rome... they had their time 16:04 and so we pick it up when they're ready for final judgment 16:06 but now we're picking this up where the time is being given 16:09 that's where we are in prophecy 16:10 so the time is being given so here's what happens, 16:12 in the 4th trumpet, there is a... 16:14 either going to be a repentance 16:16 or there's going to be a deepening of the apostasy, 16:18 5th trumpet... repentance or a deepening of the apostasy, 16:21 6th trumpet... repentance or a deepening of the apostasy, 16:24 that's what happens... it either goes one way or the other. 16:26 We either go... we either get worse and worse 16:28 or we pull away and we repent of those deeds 16:30 and that's the same way with all of us 16:32 and those are principles that we can bring out of this. 16:34 So when we get to the 4th trumpet, 16:36 what are we going to see? 16:38 Are we going to see repentance or are we going to see 16:39 a deepening of the apostasy? 16:41 Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm... 16:42 James: All right, so shall we move into the 4th...? 16:43 Yvonne: Yeah. James: Okay, let's read... 16:45 Jason, would you want to read for us 16:46 Revelation chapter 8 and let's just go ahead and read 16:50 both verses, well, let's just read verse 12 16:53 because the next one is going to transition us 16:56 into the next three so Revelation 8 verse 12. 16:58 Jason: Okay, "And the fourth angel sounded, 17:01 and the third part of the sun was smitten, 17:03 and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; 17:06 so as the third part of them was darkened, 17:09 and the day shone not for a third part of it, 17:12 and the night likewise. " 17:14 James: All right, this is where we've been... 17:17 where I've been excitedly looking to 17:20 because we've got some symbols here 17:23 that are actually going to be interpreted 17:26 in the Book of Revelation, the sun, the moon and the stars, 17:28 the sun, the moon and the stars and we've got a development here 17:32 of the Pergamos church to the Thyatira church 17:35 and we can see the history there of the persecution 17:38 the Dark Ages and the persecution again 17:40 against God's people if we think about the history, 17:42 what we're looking here in this verse 4 is... 17:45 is an interpretation that will tell us 17:47 that the Papal Power began to grow... become stronger 17:50 and then it turned itself against God's faithful people 17:54 and began to persecute and afflict those people 17:56 and included in that persecution was also 18:00 a push against the Bible, against the light of truth, 18:04 against the righteousness of Jesus Christ. 18:06 Now the reason why I think this is interesting 18:09 is because the sun and the moon and the stars 18:12 in Revelation 12 are the very things that clothe the woman... 18:18 the righteous woman... 18:20 James: Let's just read that verse, 18:21 Yvonne, do you want to read that verse for us 18:23 it's in Revelation 12 and verse 1. 18:24 Yvonne: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; 18:29 a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, 18:32 and upon her head a crown of twelve stars... " 18:35 James: Yes, now, if we could just... 18:37 I mean... this is going to be... 18:38 we're going to be getting into our fourth cycle 18:40 when we get to Revelation 12 18:41 and it's going to be just amazing how we go back now 18:43 and we start the whole cycle all over again 18:45 but right here, God is... in a sense giving us our destiny 18:49 our destiny is to be this woman that's clothed with the sun, 18:52 standing on the moon and having a crown of 12 stars. 18:55 Yvonne: Hmmm... 18:56 James: so when we go back to Revelation chapter 8 18:58 and it says that this angel... the fourth angel sounds 19:02 and a third part of the sun 19:03 and the moon and the stars were smitten 19:05 this is talking... in symbolic sense 19:07 this is talking about God's people being smitten, 19:09 God's people are being afflicted, 19:10 God's people are being attacked, 19:12 God's people are being persecuted, 19:13 we know that not only from Revelation 12 19:16 but when we go to the Old Testament 19:17 and I have the verse right here 19:19 we read about the story of Joseph, 19:21 remember the story of Joseph? 19:22 And Joseph is a young man 19:26 whose brothers are very jealous of him 19:28 because God has given this coat of many colors 19:30 and he is put in a prominent position 19:33 God is kind of choosing him and he starts having these dreams 19:37 I'm not sure if you remember the dreams that he has, 19:39 the first dream he has is these stacks of barley... 19:44 of grain and they all bow down to him... to his... 19:49 and the second dream... 19:50 do you remember what the second dream was? 19:52 Yvonne: I just remember the first one. 19:53 James: Okay, let me read it for you. 19:55 Genesis chapter 37:9 and 10, 19:56 "And he dreamed yet another dream, 19:58 and told it to his brothers, and said, 20:00 Behold I have dreamed a dream more and, behold, 20:02 the sun and the moon 20:04 and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 20:08 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: 20:10 and his father rebuked him, and he said unto him, 20:12 What is this dream about, this dream... 20:14 shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed 20:17 come to bow ourselves to thee on the earth?" 20:20 Yvonne: Hmmm... 20:21 James: So what do the sun, moon and stars represent here? 20:23 Jacob... the people of God... 20:26 Jason: Little did they know. Yvonne: Yeah... right... 20:28 Jason: Little did they know. 20:30 James: So here... this is really interesting 20:33 both in the Old and New Testament 20:35 and even in Daniel, Daniel talks about how 20:38 the stars represent fallen angels 20:42 but stars also represent those who replaced him... 20:44 God's people... who shine as stars forever and ever. 20:46 God's people, then, 20:48 are symbolized by the sun and the moon and the stars. 20:50 That represents God's church, His people, 20:53 in the Old Testament, Genesis 37:9 and 10, 20:56 in the New Testament, Revelation chapter 12 verse 1 20:58 so, in fact, Jesus says, Matthew 5:14, 21:03 "You are the light of the world with the light... " 21:06 and so, when it says that the fourth angel sounds, 21:09 "the third part of the sun, moon and stars are smitten... 21:12 so as the third part of them was darkened... " 21:15 now here it goes on to say, "and the day shone not 21:18 for a third part of it, and the night likewise. " 21:21 Jason: That's a lot of "thirds" like it's third, third, third... 21:23 they've got three thirds... so what is that? 21:26 James: So, remember what Ivor brought out and I loved it, 21:28 Ivor, can you share that again where in Revelation 12... 21:30 the third represents what? 21:32 Ivor: Right... the third represents 21:34 apostasy... it represents rebellion... 21:36 so we're looking at, again, this issue of rebellion 21:39 and apostasy with this power that is connected with Lucifer, 21:46 that is connected with Satan 21:48 that is actually a reflection of 21:50 exactly what Satan did in heaven 21:51 because in Revelation 12, it says, 21:53 "His tail cast a third of the stars to the ground. " 21:57 James: So, Satan and his angels, what they did... 22:00 they went through this transition 22:01 from faithfulness and loyalty and obedience to apostasy, 22:04 that's what's happening right here. 22:05 Ivor: And what's interesting, 22:07 let me add a couple of verses to this, 22:09 in Daniel chapter 8 and verse 10, 22:12 Daniel chapter 8 verse 10, 22:13 talks about this "little horn power" 22:15 and I want you to notice how the little horn power is described 22:18 in verse 10, it says, 22:20 "And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; 22:22 and it cast down some of the host and of the stars 22:25 to the ground, and stamped upon them. " 22:27 Yvonne: Hmmm... 22:28 Ivor: Okay, this is the persecution, 22:30 this is the little horn which is the exact power 22:33 we're talking about here under the 4th trumpet, 22:36 the little horn persecuting the people of God. 22:39 But there's something else that's really interesting 22:43 about the sun, moon and stars, 22:44 is that these are all heavenly realities, 22:50 these are all heavenly realities, 22:53 and this power is seeking to obscure heavenly realities, 23:00 what do we know are the heavenly realities 23:02 during... you know, when Christ ascended? 23:05 He ascended into heaven, into the heavenly sanctuary 23:09 and when the lights in the heavens don't show, 23:13 it's... you know... you can't see... 23:15 this is what we're talking about here, 23:18 they are obscuring heavenly truths 23:21 and one of the main heavenly truths 23:23 that they began to obscure during the Dark Ages 23:26 was the Sanctuary of God in heaven. 23:29 "No, no, no, the Sanctuary is down here... " 23:31 James: It was counterfeit... 23:34 Ivor: Yeah, "you pray to God down here... 23:35 you want to go into a 23:37 two-compartment room divided by a curtain... 23:38 Heavenly Sanctuary... 23:39 no, you come into the Confessional Booth. " 23:42 Right, they began to replace... in other words, 23:45 instead of the men looking up for life, 23:47 they were directed to look down. 23:50 Jason: I was wondering, I never... I never understood 23:53 why people would confess their sins to a sinful human being. 23:58 There is only one way to God and it should be through Christ. 24:02 James: Because we were taught to and I say that with a "we" 24:06 because I was raised Catholic, so I was... that's all I knew... 24:09 that's what religion was to me and I can't even tell you 24:12 the experience that I had when I realized 24:15 that I could pray directly to God, 24:17 it was 1984... it was the very year that 24:20 the LA Times quoted John Paul the Second saying, 24:22 "We should not accept the Protestant idea 24:24 that we can pray directly to God and have our sins forgiven, 24:27 we should pray more earnestly or more frequently to our priest," 24:29 in that same year, 1984, when he said that, 24:32 I became a Christian and then became a Seventh-day Adventist. 24:36 I became a Christian before I became an Adventist, 24:39 when I say, "became a Christian" 24:40 I was raised Catholic but when I say, "became a Christian" 24:43 I became a born-again Christian, 24:44 I knew the Lord's Prayer and the "Hail Mary" 24:47 but I knew nothing about Christ in my earlier years, 24:50 I knew about the Priest and confession to the Priest 24:52 which... the verses you brought out, Ivor, 24:55 it's all there... in Daniel 8... 24:57 let's read those verses, 24:59 Yvonne, would you read those verses, 25:00 verses 11 and 12, in fact, all the way to 14. 25:05 In Daniel 8 verses 11, 12, 13 and 14 25:08 and I think if we read these verses, 25:11 we're going... because we've already explained, 25:13 we've already explained... we just explained these verses, 25:15 now we're just going to read them 25:16 and they're going to confirm what we just explained 25:18 about the Sanctuary being attacked 25:20 and brought down to the earth. 25:21 Yvonne: Daniel 8:11, right, through 13? 25:23 James: Through 14. Yvonne: Through 14. 25:25 "Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, 25:29 and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, 25:32 and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 25:35 And an host was given him 25:37 against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, 25:40 and it cast down the truth to the ground; 25:42 and it practiced, and prospered. 25:44 Then I heard one saint speaking, 25:46 and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, 25:50 How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, 25:53 and the transgression of desolation, 25:55 to give both the sanctuary 25:57 and the host to be trodden under foot? 25:59 And he said unto me, 26:01 Unto two thousand and three hundred days; 26:03 then shall the sanctuary be cleaned. " 26:05 James: Wooo... Yvonne: Wow! 26:07 James: So this is another description 26:10 of these Dark Ages and we're right now 26:13 we're in Revelation chapter 8, we're seeing the development... 26:17 today, we're looking past and saying this happened 26:19 but now we're looking at the development of these verses 26:22 that ended with the Sanctuary being made right or justified 26:25 or cleansed in 1844... at the end of the 2,300-day Prophecy 26:29 that's when a message went forth that eventually even impacted me 26:32 a young, Catholic Altar Boy in 1984 26:35 it caused me to realize "heavenly luminaries" 26:38 the day and the night... 26:40 the shining of the heavenly luminaries... 26:42 getting into heaven and not being focused on this earth 26:45 and on human beings. Yvonne: Hmmm... 26:47 Ivor: Let me add in here... just saying is that, 26:48 it says a host was given him... what are we talking about? 26:52 A third of the sun the moon and the stars... the hosts... 26:55 because of his persecution... like people are like... 26:59 "Okay, we got to follow him because... " 27:00 you see what I'm saying? 27:02 So, I'm only talking about that one-third representing apostasy, 27:05 representing rebellion and this is what's going on, 27:07 the people of God are being attacked 27:09 and because of the persecution, many of them are like, 27:12 "Okay, we don't want to be burnt at the stake" 27:14 you see what I'm saying and there's this... 27:16 "the host has been given to him against the daily sacrifice. " 27:21 James: You know time is done already 27:23 and I love... what I love about this program is 27:25 you don't have to worry about that 27:27 because we don't have any... 27:28 we don't have to be through this through that 27:30 and the other thing in a certain time, 27:31 we just pick up where we left off... in our next program, 27:33 but we need to let people know how they can get ahold of us 27:35 and get information about this. 27:37 Jason: Oh absolutely, they should send their e-mail to 27:39 sss@3abn. org 27:42 that's sss as in Salvation in Symbols and Signs 27:45 and I love that we're not rushing through it either 27:48 but I'm running out of clothes. 27:49 James: It's all good... it's all good... 27:53 we can fix that down in Walmart. 27:56 All: Laughing... |
Revised 2016-11-22