Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Jason Bradley, Yvonne Lewis
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000050A
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00:29 This is truly the best part of the book of Revelation,
00:33 there is so much here... 00:34 layer after layer after layer of truth 00:36 and the reason why it's so important, I think, 00:38 for us to be able to see the truth here is because 00:40 God is warning us about deception... 00:42 deception is huge in the book of Revelation 00:45 and the warning against it comes again and again and again 00:50 and that's what we see here in Revelation chapter 12, 00:52 we've got the symbols of the woman, 00:54 we've got the dragon, 00:55 we've got the "white" that the woman is clothed in, 00:58 all taking us back to Genesis and the first deception 01:01 that was played on us there with Eve 01:04 and then... we go all the way back to heaven, 01:07 it all began in heaven... 01:09 the war began in heaven... what kind of war was it? 01:11 Well, let's pick up with that after we have a word of prayer, 01:14 let's pick up with what kind of war it was. 01:15 Jason, pray for us, please. 01:17 Jason: Sure, "Dear Heavenly Father, 01:18 as we dive deeper and deeper into Revelation, 01:21 we ask that you would pour out your Holy Spirit 01:24 so that we may understand fully what we are reading 01:26 and please be with our Viewers and Listeners as well, 01:29 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. " All: "Amen. " 01:32 We know it wasn't a war of tanks and guns... 01:35 because heaven is much more sophisticated than that, 01:39 I mean, at the very least it would be lasers or some kind of 01:43 technology that is just far beyond us 01:45 but it's pretty clear from the Bible 01:49 that it was a war of words. 01:50 All: Hmmm... hmmm... 01:51 James: War is something that we think of 01:55 in relation to military might and fire power 01:58 but the word actually is polemos 02:01 and that word is connected with 02:03 the word that we use for politics 02:05 Yvonne: Hmmm... 02:07 James: It was a political war, it was a war that had to do with 02:11 with strategy... with communications 02:15 the Bible indicates... in the Old Testament 02:17 that Satan himself 02:19 was a merchandiser of words against God 02:23 that iniquity was found in him 02:25 and he began to merchandise this iniquity 02:27 toward the other angels that would listen to him 02:30 and he started putting seeds of doubt into their minds 02:33 about God and His character and who He was 02:36 and we know this for two reasons, to be a fact... 02:38 not only does it say it in the Old Testament, 02:41 but we see it happening in the book of Genesis, 02:43 think about that... 02:45 in fact, let's look at those verses there 02:47 in Genesis chapter 3 and the way that he approached the woman 02:49 and then the other reason we know is because 02:51 that's exactly what we see happening 02:53 in the world at large today. 02:54 We know that Satan's come down to deceive the whole world 02:57 his mode of operation hasn't changed, 03:01 he is seeking to put seeds of doubt 03:04 into our minds about the character of God 03:06 and the love of God and he does it... 03:08 to a large degree... through religious guys... 03:10 through misrepresenting Him through religion 03:12 misrepresenting God through religion 03:13 so, Yvonne, can you read for us, in Genesis, can you read for us 03:18 Genesis chapter 3 and verses... just let's start with verse 1 03:22 and let's read all the way through verse 5. 03:24 Yvonne: "Now the serpent was more subtle 03:27 than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. 03:30 And he said unto the woman, Yeah, hath God said, 03:32 Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 03:35 And the woman said unto the serpent, 03:37 We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 03:39 But of the fruit of the tree 03:41 which is in the midst of the garden, 03:43 God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, 03:46 neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 03:48 And the serpent said unto the woman, 03:50 Ye shall not surely die: 03:52 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, 03:55 then your eyes shall be opened 03:57 and shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. " 04:00 James: All right... 04:01 so the first thing that Satan's saying about God is 04:03 that God can't be trusted to tell you the truth. 04:05 Yvonne: Hmmm... 04:07 James: "God's a liar... 04:08 he's not telling you the truth, you're not really going to die" 04:11 and the second thing he's saying is 04:13 that God is selfish... 04:15 "God actually... there is something in this fruit 04:19 that will make you just like Him 04:20 and He doesn't want you to have that. 04:21 God is selfish... and He's a withholder... 04:24 He wants to withhold from you, 04:26 He wants to hold you down to another level, 04:28 He's kind of... kind of control you 04:30 and make sure that you don't get to the place that He is... " 04:31 I mean, these are the kinds of lies that are obvious 04:34 when you read this... 04:35 these are the kinds of lies that Satan is insinuating 04:38 but the way he does it is so subtle... 04:40 because Eve isn't... all of a sudden saying, 04:43 "What! that... how can he say that about God?" 04:46 It's not like she even knows 04:48 that God's character has been assaulted. 04:49 Yvonne: Yeah. James: It's so subtle. 04:51 Yvonne: It's interesting to me that Satan took... 04:55 basically took God's word because if you look at verse 22, 05:00 I know we're kind of getting off... but... 05:01 James: That verse is good... verse is good. 05:04 Yvonne: I was asking the Lord about this once 05:08 because it just did not connect to me 05:10 and the Lord... I'll explain what I got from... 05:13 "And the LORD God said, 05:14 Behold, the man is become as one of us, 05:17 to know good and evil: 05:18 and now, lest he put forth his hand, 05:20 and take also of the tree of life, 05:22 and eat, and live forever... Therefore... " 05:24 in other words God was telling them 05:26 they had to leave the garden but the Lord had said Himself 05:30 that... "that they would become as one of us 05:34 to know good and evil" 05:36 now, the question is... what is, "to know... " 05:39 that's the question and I asked the Lord that 05:43 and what He impressed me with was that 05:45 it's not that God... we're in competition 05:48 with God on any level 05:50 but God is not contaminated by evil... and we are... 05:55 so, by them... by them taking of that fruit, 06:00 they... they became familiar... intimately familiar... 06:05 he knew her... they became familiar... 06:09 connected to evil and that was what... 06:12 that was what happened here, not so much... 06:15 it wasn't that God was worried about them becoming like Him 06:18 in terms of what He knew... He's a creator of the universe 06:21 but it was that He did not... they were... 06:25 He did not want them to get contaminated by the evil 06:29 and the sin contaminated them, so it was not... 06:32 Satan just took God's words 06:35 and gave it just that little bitty twist. 06:38 James: Just a tweak... just a tweak... 06:40 just tweaked this a little bit, it was so subtle... 06:42 and another thing I really like about what you brought out is, 06:45 "Yes, God never wanted us to know good and evil" 06:48 even the way He knows it... 06:49 because, it has brought pain to His own heart. 06:52 Yvonne: Yes... 06:54 James: It has hurt Him to the utmost... 06:55 He never wanted us to experience that. 06:56 Yvonne: Hmmm... 06:58 James: So, Satan says, 06:59 "He doesn't want you to know good and evil... " 07:00 and Eve could have said, 07:02 "That's right, and I trust Him for that, 07:03 I trust that I don't need to know that... " 07:05 Yvonne: Right... 07:06 James: And we're the same way, 07:08 "God doesn't want me to have fun... " 07:09 no, He doesn't want you to have pleasure of sin for a season. 07:12 Yvonne: Right. 07:13 James: Just for a season, He doesn't want you to have 07:14 any kind of seasonal fun, 07:16 He wants you to have pleasure for evermore, Psalm 16 says, 07:18 but He doesn't want you to have pleasure for a season, 07:21 that ends in death. Yvonne: Right... right. 07:24 Ivor: This war on words, I think, is a very... 07:26 it's a really... 07:27 a statement that really brings it together for us 07:30 and the reason that... it really was a war on words, 07:33 you look at Genesis chapter 3, what is he doing? 07:36 He's taking God's words and manipulating it, 07:39 when he was in... when he met Jesus in the wilderness, 07:42 he was taking the word of God and twisting it to meet his... 07:46 what he wanted... and it's interesting 07:49 because if you look at the book of Isaiah chapter 14, 07:53 I just want us to turn there, very quickly, 07:55 Isaiah 14... I want you to notice what it says in verse 12, 08:01 we can read from verse 12 to verse 13. 08:06 James: Whoever gets there first, start reading. 08:10 Jason: "How art thou fallen from heaven, 08:12 O Lucifer, son of the morning! 08:13 how art thou cut down to the ground, 08:16 which didst weaken the nations! 08:19 For thou hast said in thine heart, 08:21 I will ascend into heaven, 08:23 I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: 08:26 I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation 08:28 in the sides of the north... " 08:29 Ivor: Okay, so, Lucifer wanted to sit 08:32 on the mount of the congregation, 08:34 he wanted to sit on the sides of the north, 08:37 and I think we've gone over this before in the program 08:41 but "the sides of the north" 08:43 if you were to look in the sanctuary 08:45 the sides of the north 08:46 is where the Table of Shewbread is located 08:49 according to Exodus 26 verse 20, 08:52 the Table of Shewbread is on the side of the north, 08:55 on that side of north you have 12 loaves of bread 08:58 representing the people of God, 09:00 the congregation of God so when it says, 09:02 "Lucifer wanted to sit on the mount of the congregation 09:05 in the sides of the north... " this is in heaven, 09:06 He wanted to sit over the congregation of angels in heaven 09:11 now the Table of Shewbread represents the Word of God. 09:15 Lucifer wanted his word to be obeyed over God's word. 09:20 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 09:21 Ivor: This is what he was after, 09:22 "I will be like the Most High, I want you to obey me 09:26 as if you would obey the Most High" 09:28 and so when we see at the very end of time, 09:30 that... the Bible tells us 09:33 that Lucifer, himself, will appear as an angel of light 09:36 2nd Thessalonians talks about 09:39 "sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" 09:43 like, ultimately... 09:45 that verse ultimately points to Satan himself 09:48 coming and appearing as Jesus Christ, 09:50 "my word over His word... " this is the deception 09:54 that the Bible is warning us... is coming... 09:57 that Satan himself... it's interesting because 10:01 we often... when we study the Bible and especially 10:05 having the understanding of the three angels' messages, 10:08 we often leave Satan out of the picture 10:12 when it comes to the end time, 10:13 we think that the "man of sin" is human, right? 10:18 But listen carefully, 10:19 the Head of the Papal System is to Satan... 10:27 what John the Baptist was to Jesus. 10:30 John the Baptist prepared the way... for the coming One... 10:35 in the very same way... 10:37 the "way" is being prepared by the little horn 10:41 for the ultimate appearing of Satan himself 10:43 which we understand as the overmastering delusion... 10:47 deception... and when that happens, 10:49 it's going to be, "Listen, oh, that's God speaking" 10:51 he will show himself that he is God 10:54 and so we see this... this pattern of deception 10:57 from the war in heaven that's what he was trying to do, 11:01 he was trying to sit on the sides of the north, 11:03 "my word over God's word... " 11:04 when it comes to Eve, "my word over God's word" 11:06 Jesus in the wilderness... "my word over God's word" 11:10 and at the very end of time, "my word over God's word. " 11:13 Yvonne: Wow! Jason: He's lost his mind. 11:17 James: The other reference I want us to look at 11:20 with this is... is... I don't want us to read it but 11:22 Ezekiel 28... one verse... 11:24 "You have defiled your sanctuaries 11:26 by the multitude of your iniquities, 11:27 by the iniquity of thy traffic... " 11:29 the things that he has been trafficking against God, 11:32 the things that he has been saying against God, 11:34 the words that he's been communicating against God, 11:36 and the context of Ezekiel 28 is this covering cherub... 11:41 the anointed one, this Lucifer... 11:43 it's talking about Lucifer in that context, 11:44 so I think it's really important... 11:46 what Ivor just brought out is really key because 11:48 the bottom line for our... 11:51 the basis of our protection is the Word of God 11:54 and this woman that's clothed in the sun 11:56 which represents Christ's righteousness 11:58 is also standing on the moon, 11:59 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path" 12:01 "a light unto my feet, and a lamp unto my path" 12:03 it's one of those two... Psalm 119:105... 12:06 Yvonne: "A light unto my feet, and a lamp unto my path. " 12:09 Jason: I can't help but wonder what would have happened 12:11 if Adam and Eve were together 12:13 and not separated... that very moment, 12:16 what would have happened if Adam and Eve were together... 12:19 would they have just been like, 12:21 "No, you can go somewhere with your lies... " 12:24 or would they have both caved then? 12:27 I can't wait to get to heaven to find out. 12:29 James: I don't have a Bible verse on that 12:31 but I know it is important for the man... not to be alone 12:35 and for the woman and the man to be together, 12:37 so, let's get back to Revelation chapter 12 12:39 and I just want us to look here because we're trying to sort out 12:43 why does John go to heaven all of a sudden, 12:47 in verses 7, 8 and 9... he's in heaven... 12:50 and he's talking about this war... 12:55 this conflict that began in heaven, now, 12:57 I think, one of the reasons why he does this is because 13:00 God is summarizing the whole great controversy 13:02 from beginning to end because He's going to end it right here, 13:05 and He wants us to know where it started and how it started. 13:07 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 13:08 James: And it's kind of like... I was talking with Bobby about 13:13 the conquering of the Canaan... the new... the promised land... 13:17 and Joshua... and how they went in... 13:19 and they went around Jericho seven times and boom! 13:22 It came down... God took it out... 13:24 and then when it came to Ai... Jericho was a big strong city... 13:27 when it came to Ai... Joshua's like... 13:30 "Oh, no problem... 13:31 send a few thousand... let's take it out... " 13:33 goes in there... completely routed... 13:36 36 died... they run back... and Joshua falls on his face 13:40 and he's like, "Lord, I can't believe he led us out here... 13:43 we're going to die... and then what about your great name, 13:46 what about you and your character?" 13:48 And the point that... 13:50 the conclusion that we're coming to 13:53 as we were talking about this, a little bit was... 13:55 we trust God for the big sins in our lives, the Jericho's... 14:00 but we don't always trust Him for the little ones, 14:02 we think we can deal with those, 14:04 "I can take care of that little thing" 14:05 but it's the little ones that keep bugging us 14:07 and they're just there... and they're there 14:09 and they're there... and they're there... you know... 14:11 and I think that is vital for us to understand 14:15 that sometimes we lose our dependence on God 14:19 when it comes to Him taking care of little things 14:22 that we think we have to take care of 14:23 and we don't stay focused on Him 14:27 in relation to everything... God has everything... 14:30 and so, when we get in Revelation chapter 12, 14:33 we need to recognize, "No one can take him out... " 14:36 no one can take out the devil but Michael... 14:40 and so what happens in the context of this... 14:43 "Michael prevails... " 14:45 that's a word that I think is really interesting 14:46 and then, in the very context of this, 14:49 it says in verse 9... 14:51 "And the great dragon was cast out, 14:52 that old serpent, called the Devil, 14:53 and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; 14:55 he was cast out into the earth, 14:57 and his angels were cast out with him. " 14:58 Well, I remember, 15:01 Satan going to the presence of God in the book of Job, 15:05 the "casting out" here definitely, okay, 15:09 it definitely happened, let's say, in a physical sense 15:12 sometime before we even were aware of it, 15:15 he's cast out of heaven but in a psychological sense, 15:20 in a political sense, 15:22 Satan still has a little bit of something... 15:25 even with the rest of the universe, 15:28 he still dares to walk into the presence of God and say... 15:31 and God says, "What are you doing here?" 15:33 He says, "I come from the earth. " 15:34 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 15:35 James: And God points to Job 15:37 but really what God is doing is God... 15:38 because the whole book of Job is another "mini" of the dragon 15:41 leviathan is in the book of Job and Job is like... "Wh... " 15:43 and God's like, 15:45 "I'm the only one that can take care of Leviathan... 15:46 you can't take care of Leviathan" 15:48 and so, here, we see... I think, a final... if you will 15:52 casting out... of the dragon... 15:55 from the minds and the hearts and the sympathies 15:59 of the heavenly universe. 16:01 Yvonne: Oh, as opposed to 16:02 what happened in the very beginning? 16:04 James: Yes... Yvonne: Oh... 16:06 James: You see... and the reason why I say this is because 16:08 "the dragon was cast out, that old devil, 16:10 and the angels that were cast out into the earth, 16:12 and his angels were cast out with him... " 16:13 and verse 10... "And I heard a loud voice 16:16 saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, 16:18 and strength, and the kingdom of our God, 16:21 and the power of his Christ: 16:22 for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, 16:25 which accused them before God day and night... " 16:28 and it goes on to say, verse 12, 16:30 "Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell in them 16:33 but woe to the inhabitants of the earth 16:35 for the devil is come unto you, having great wrath, 16:38 because he knows he has but a short time. " 16:40 Now here's the deal... if you look at... 16:43 look up this verse for us, John 12:31... 16:45 and we'll get to that in just a second... 16:47 but if you look at this in the context of the war... 16:52 the conflict that's taking place, 16:54 the sympathies that... it says, 16:56 "Now I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, 16:58 'salvation is come... ' but on the earth... 17:00 there's still a problem... " Yvonne: Hmmm... 17:03 James: Something has happened 17:04 to change the whole circumstance of heaven, 17:08 now if this was... if this took place... 17:10 if these verses have their only fulfillment, 17:12 or their only application 17:14 to the time when Satan was cast out of heaven, 17:16 why would there be war on the earth? 17:17 Adam and Eve hadn't fallen yet, Adam and Eve were... 17:19 they were warned about him but they... 17:22 see, there's either something... there's another application here 17:24 and when you read these verses, Jason. 17:26 Ivor: James, let me just add there... that 17:28 not only had Adam and Eve not fallen yet, 17:30 but they weren't even created. 17:31 James: Yeah... 17:32 Ivor: So, "Woe unto them that dwell on the earth... " 17:34 this is pointing us to another time 17:37 because there's evidently people dwelling on the earth 17:41 when this fall happens so this is not... 17:44 in other words, yes, there was war in heaven, 17:46 he was cast out at the very beginning 17:48 but there's also a casting out 17:51 when there were people that were dwelling on the earth, 17:54 you see what I'm saying? 17:55 James: Yes... yeah... there's a casting out, 17:56 let's read John chapter 12, 17:58 I think I want to start with verse 29, 18:01 let's start there just to make sure I got the context. 18:04 Jason: You want me to go to 31? 18:07 James: Yeah, let's start with 29 and let's read it really quickly 18:10 start with 29 and yeah... and read through verse 32. 18:15 Jason: Okay, "The people therefore, 18:17 that stood by, and heard it... " 18:19 James: No, no, I'm sorry... verse 30... 18:21 Jason: Verse 30? James: No, no... verse 31. 18:22 Jason: Okay, verse 31, 18:24 "Now is the judgment of this world: 18:25 now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 18:28 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, 18:31 will draw all men unto me. " 18:33 James: Okay... do you see the phrase there that's used? 18:36 "Cast out... 18:38 now shall the prince of the world be 'cast out... ' 18:41 and then what am I going to do? 18:43 I'm going to start drawing people to me. " 18:45 See what has happened to the earth? 18:46 Why would He need to draw people to him? 18:49 Because they'd been separated from Him. 18:51 So, in this context, 18:54 Jesus Christ, here, is telling us about 18:56 a future prophecy... the prophecy includes His death, 19:00 because He says here, "And I, if I be lifted up... " 19:04 so that's the cross... 19:05 "I'm going to cast him out... if I be lifted up 19:09 and I'm going to draw people to me... " 19:10 If we just take that, those two verses... 19:12 John 12:31 and 32 19:15 and we put it right here in Revelation chapter 12... 19:17 they have an exact fit, 19:19 because what happens at the cross is, 19:21 Satan is finally cast out... "rejoice ye heavens... " 19:23 and yet... but what about the inhabitants of the earth? 19:26 And Jesus says, 19:27 "I've got to draw the inhabitants of the earth to me, 19:29 I've got to draw them to me. " 19:30 So right here... Revelation chapter 12 19:33 is recapping the whole history, now, 19:35 the reason why this is important is because 19:37 we have the whole history of the rebellion in heaven 19:40 from its beginning and then we have 19:42 the woman who brings forth a child 19:44 she's caught up to... 19:45 the dragon tries to destroy the child... she's caught up... 19:47 the child is caught up to heaven and to His God 19:49 and then we have an explanation of the cross, 19:52 here you've got the resurrection but you've got the cross. 19:56 Ivor: So, I'm always looking at ways to... like, juice it down 20:00 and step back and look at the big picture 20:02 and what I'm seeing here in Revelation 12 20:04 is that... in verses 1 through 6, 20:06 verses 7 onward... is like a recap of verses 1 through 6 20:12 because what's interesting is... 20:14 if you look at verse 3, 20:15 "there appeared another wonder in heaven; 20:17 and behold a great red dragon 20:19 having seven heads and ten horns, 20:20 with his crowns upon his head. 20:22 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven... " 20:25 and did what? "cast them to the earth. " 20:28 That's... that's the war in heaven... 20:31 right, that's the fall of Lucifer and his angels 20:34 from heaven... those angels... those... 20:36 the one third of the stars represent 20:37 one third of the angels, 20:39 so in chapter 12... verses 1 through 6 20:42 you have this like... shorter version of, 20:45 "Hey, this is all that happened" 20:47 right, but then seven... it's like it goes back again. 20:49 James: It repeats and enlarges. 20:51 Ivor: There was war in heaven... and enlarges 20:52 and takes us into more detail. 20:54 James: Yeah, because verses 1 through 6 include 20:57 the child being born and being caught up... but not the cross. 21:00 Ivor: Right... it includes the time, time and a half, 21:04 so when you read further down 21:06 you're seeing... you're seeing the time, time and a half again, 21:10 you're seeing the woman in the wilderness again, so God... 21:13 James: And you see Christ again. 21:14 Ivor: And you see Christ again 21:16 so it's almost as if God is saying, 21:17 "Okay guys, before we move to Revelation chapter 13, 21:21 I want to make sure... I'm going to tell you twice, 21:24 I want to make sure that you got... 21:26 you know where we are, so that, when we get into this, 21:30 you're not lost... you're not confused... 21:31 you have no confusion, you know what's coming next... " 21:34 so God says it and then He repeats it 21:37 and goes into more detail. 21:38 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 21:39 James: And if there's any place where God needs to repeat it 21:42 and say it again and make sure we got it clear, 21:44 this is the place... 21:45 now, I'm not talking about... this is the place... 21:46 like in the book of Revelation, I'm talking about... 21:48 this is the place... like the subject matter, 21:49 this is the most important subject matter we can talk about 21:52 we're talking about how this whole great controversy began, 21:55 we're talking about what it's about... 21:57 it's about God's character, 21:59 we're talking about how it is promulgated by words... 22:01 by slight misrepresentations, okay 22:04 about God, about His character... 22:07 which are continuing on and being promulgated by 22:10 majorly by religion even "Christian" religion, 22:13 it totally misrepresents the character of God. 22:15 I remember when I was coming out here once, 22:17 I was on my journey to 3ABN, I was in a rental car 22:21 and I was looking for a radio station, 22:23 you know in Southern Illinois, it's not hard to find 22:24 a Christian radio station, that's what I was looking for, 22:26 a Christian radio station... so, here... 22:28 unlike Oregon where I live, it's more secular... 22:30 I'm not looking for... 22:32 trying to find a Christian radio station over secular... 22:35 I'm trying to find the right Christian radio station, 22:37 you know, like... there are a lot of choices, 22:39 "All right, which one do I want?" 22:40 And I stopped 22:41 when I was listening to these two guys talk about 22:44 predestination... never heard that before, 22:47 I mean, I understood the whole concept 22:49 but I never heard two people on a radio talk show... 22:52 Christians... talking about it specifically, 22:54 in fact, I had a hard time believing that 22:56 people really believe that, like, I knew it was a doctrine, 22:58 okay, Calvinism, right, but, do people really believe that? 23:01 Yes, these guys really believed this, 23:02 and they were going on about predestination 23:05 and how God has created certain people to be saved 23:08 and God has created certain people to be lost 23:09 and there are certain people 23:10 who have no chance of ever being saved, 23:12 and there are other people that are saved 23:13 and they're never going to be lost, 23:15 "once saved... always saved... they're always going to be... " 23:16 and I was like... "Really? Really?" 23:18 And people were calling in and they were saying, 23:20 "Wait a minute, wait a minute... doesn't the Bible say here... 23:22 and doesn't the Bible say here...?" 23:23 "No, no, no... they were never saved that they turned from God, 23:25 they were never saved in the first place, 23:27 no, no, no, there's no possibility... 23:28 that person was always saved, he may have been a rebel... 23:30 but he was always saved... that's just the way it is... " 23:33 And I thought, 23:34 "You know, if you combined that idea 23:37 with the other idea that a lot of Christians believe 23:40 that hell is an eternally burning fire, 23:43 never ending... the two concepts together... 23:46 'God has created some people to burn in hell for all eternity'" 23:50 I'm like, "there's nothing that can misrepresent 23:54 the character of God more 23:56 than the combination of those two doctrines together. " 23:57 Yvonne: Yeah... yes. 23:59 James: And I thought, "God has been... " 24:00 and I think about this, "Has anyone ever said something 24:02 critical about you that was wrong? 24:06 Has anyone ever misrepresented you or falsified you?" 24:09 Maybe they've said, 24:11 "You're always late... you never get here on time... " 24:13 or something like that, I don't know... 24:15 All: Laughter... 24:17 James: No, seriously... 24:21 and you know how hard that is sometimes to bear, like, 24:24 "I know I'm late sometimes, 24:25 I know that's not a big deal I can... that's... yeah... 24:27 what I would expect... " 24:29 but when someone says something about you 24:32 that is bad and false... think about God... 24:35 think about His shoulders... He's been completely... 24:39 and He's so loving... He's such a... 24:41 He's just like the opposite of anything 24:42 if you can even imagine... 24:43 we can't even fathom what He's like and love... 24:45 and He's been completely... so, now what I do, whenever I... 24:49 whenever I experience that myself 24:51 where I feel like I've been misrepresented, 24:52 I just think about God... 24:54 I just think about His character, 24:55 I just think about... for 6,000 years 24:57 He's been completely misrepresented 24:59 in so many ways... 25:01 and He's borne through this 25:02 but finally God is doing something about it, 25:04 Revelation 12 is telling us 25:06 finally this testimony is being given, 25:08 "You want to know what God is like? 25:09 Look to Calvary" 25:11 see, God isn't casting out by might... 25:13 God is casting out by testimony, 25:15 He's standing up in court and He's giving His testimony 25:17 He is going to be on the witness stand, 25:19 the hour of His judgment is come 25:20 and He's going to make a statement, 25:21 and His statement is going to be, 25:23 "Here's what you've seen for 6,000 years 25:25 concerning this fallen angel, here's what I'm all about, 25:29 I'm all about saving you, 25:30 I'm all about giving my life for you, 25:32 I'm all about... " and finally as we see this... 25:35 finally people are drawn they're just drawn... 25:38 "I want to draw everyone to me through this revelation... " 25:40 it's a beautiful picture. 25:42 Yvonne: Wow... 25:44 Ivor: Again, if you look at Revelation chapters 1 through 11 25:46 what you really have there is just... like I said, 25:50 these little pieces... little snapshots... 25:52 just like if you were to open your eyes 25:54 just like a blink, you open and you close it again 25:56 little pictures... but in Revelation 12, 26:00 it's the first... fully detailed account 26:04 about the great controversy, the whole chapter, 26:07 think about it, from Genesis 26:09 all the way to Revelation chapter 1, 26:12 there is no detail... it's just pieces... 26:15 Jesus says, "I beheld Satan fall like lightening from heaven" 26:18 what else happened? 26:20 James: Yeah, how did that happen? 26:21 Ivor: Yeah, how did that happen? Ezekiel... 26:23 "You were the son of the morning, 26:26 you were cast out... you will be destroyed. " 26:29 Isaiah 14... "You wanted to be like the Most High" 26:32 nothing... but when we get to Revelation 12, 26:34 it's the first time that the veil is fully pulled back 26:38 from 12 onward... it's like, God is like, 26:41 "All right, I was saving the 'October' surprise, 26:47 I was 'saving' that this is the final revelation, 26:51 look this is what it is, look, here it is... 26:54 everything, your eyes are... " 26:55 He's revealing the evidence that shows us, 26:58 "this is what's been going on... 27:00 this is who Satan really is, this is how the war began 27:04 this is how it's going to end. " Yvonne: Hmmm... 27:06 James: And I just hope... I just pray and hope that 27:08 we and all of our Viewers can see this 27:10 we need to see God for who He really is 27:12 and the character of God for who He really is 27:14 and maybe there are people that have questions about this, 27:16 they want to ask some questions about some of these doctrines 27:19 and some of the ways that God has been misrepresented 27:21 and the way religion has come across, 27:23 so how can they get ahold of us? 27:24 Jason: They should send their e- mails to: sss@3abn. org 27:29 James: All right, sss@3abn. org 27:32 Yvonne: And there might be some people 27:33 who want to see this every day, 27:35 on the Parent Network... it's shown on Saturday evenings 27:39 and sometimes during the week, 27:41 but on Dare to Dream, 27:42 it's on every evening at 6:30 Central Time... 27:45 James: 6:30 p. m. Central Time, every day... 27:49 absolutely love that, praise God. 27:51 Yvonne: Amen... 27:52 James: We are going to continue our study in Revelation 12, 27:55 we're not done yet, we've got... 27:56 we're going to go into that second cycle. 27:57 It's going to be good, lots of good stuff. 27:59 Yvonne: Amen. |
Revised 2017-01-04