Participants:
Series Code: SISS
Program Code: SISS000082S
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00:01 Music...
00:31 James: Okay, so we are still in Daniel 2 00:34 which is... which is really good because 00:36 what I've been learning as we've been going through this is 00:40 there's a lot here that's very practical 00:43 and I think we closed up on the idea of just the... 00:47 the secular-skeptic thinking that, 00:51 "Hey, Daniel was written like 1st century B.C. 00:54 there's no way that he could have figured that all out 00:56 or understood all that history without cheating a little bit, 01:00 but if we even give them that, 01:02 there's still 500 years after that 01:03 that have to be figured out ahead of time 01:07 in order for that prophecy to be accurate because... 01:10 Ivor: I'm going to add in here James 01:12 that we didn't even talk about this in the last program 01:14 and I know we haven't even prayed yet, 01:16 but, the two schools of thought Preterism and Futurism 01:20 which is what most people hear and most skeptics hear, 01:24 really just eliminate the whole idea of this prophecy 01:29 extending over a period of time through history 01:32 so, in reality... this view of prophecy that we're sharing 01:37 is crucial to convincing the "Nebuchadnezzars" of the world 01:42 and because Satan has kind of produced 01:44 some counterfeit verses of prophecy 01:46 that don't pan out... 01:48 in their mind... "Oh yeah, this prophecy... 01:50 prophecy is nothing because 01:51 there's no real proof of fulfillment... " 01:53 and it's really because they haven't heard Daniel, right? 01:59 They've been listening to the wise men 02:00 they're like, "Yeah, that doesn't make sense, 02:02 that doesn't make sense... " but for many of them, 02:04 they have not heard a "Daniel" come and say, 02:07 "No, that's not what that means... 02:08 this is what it means... " so... 02:10 James: Hmmm... hmmm... and it's certain and sure 02:12 that's something else Daniel says, isn't it? 02:13 "This is certain and sure. " 02:15 Yvonne, would you pray for us as we start. 02:17 Yvonne: Sure... "Father God, thank You so very much 02:19 for bringing us together again to study Your Word. 02:21 There are so many rich gems in here 02:24 and we just thank You that You've just given us the... 02:28 the map for finding out where these things are... 02:31 the treasure map... so, we just pray Lord God 02:33 that you would continue to lead and guide, 02:36 in Jesus' name, amen. " 02:37 All: Amen. 02:39 James: You know, you brought up something there, Ivor, 02:40 that I think is really worth touching on 02:43 and that is the different schools of interpretive thought, 02:46 you mentioned Preterism... you mentioned Futurism... 02:48 we believe in Historicism 02:51 and then, there's even a new one called "Idealism" 02:53 and we did touch on that a little bit in an earlier program 02:56 when we covered Revelation 02:57 but it's really interesting isn't it, 03:00 I think, that Daniel almost necessitates 03:03 Historicist interpretation 03:05 and to put it... Future or even Preterist is difficult, 03:10 now, when we say, "Historicist" 03:12 and then compare that with "Preterism... " 03:14 Preterism says, "All prophecy has already been fulfilled... 03:16 it's all in the past... " 03:18 and it's really difficult to do that with Daniel 03:20 but it's natural for us on this side of Daniel 03:23 to recognize that a lot of this is in the past... 03:26 which we have Babylon... Medo-Persia... Greece... Rome... 03:29 so, Historicism though allows for that past 03:32 while also opening the way for... future. 03:35 Futurism doesn't allow for the past, 03:38 it focuses on the future... 03:40 Historicism is: Past, Present and Future. 03:42 All: Hmmm... hmmm... 03:43 James: But another thing Historicism does 03:45 is different from Idealism 03:46 which is a very popular way of interpreting prophecy today 03:49 is idealism doesn't nail down the history. 03:52 Idealism shares the principles, you know, 03:56 these powers... these influences... 03:58 and "they did this and this was for evil 03:59 and this was for good... and we can see those... " 04:01 but they don't really say, 04:02 "Now, from this date to this date, this power did this... 04:04 from this date to this date, this power did this. " 04:06 Yvonne: Okay... 04:07 James: So it's Idealism 04:08 because it's ideal for "Pluralism" 04:10 when you don't want to really nail down anything... 04:13 you don't want to identify anyone... 04:14 you just want everyone to come to the table 04:16 and kind of say, "Yeah, this is really cool... 04:18 these principles are really cool... " 04:19 and, "Yeah, wow! we can get a lot of out that" 04:21 and then you just go on, 04:22 whereas, what Historicism does is... 04:25 it insists that this has a specific application... 04:29 a specific time in history that leads to specific actions 04:31 that helps us prepare for the future 04:33 and understand the past. 04:35 So, I really think it was good for us 04:36 just to brush up on that a little bit, 04:38 the Historicist... the Preterist... 04:39 the Futurist and the Idealist interpretations 04:42 so, we left off in Daniel chapter 2 04:45 and we were looking at... 04:47 as you were going through the verses, Ivor, 04:49 we were looking at these verses that identified Nebuchadnezzar 04:52 as the king of kings, 04:54 and you were pointing out 04:55 some of the powerful, I think, insights 04:59 that help us to understand how this prepares us 05:03 for future prophecy and understanding 05:05 and what this means in... in relationship to that, 05:07 so, I'm going to hand it back to you 05:08 and... and take us on. 05:10 Ivor: So, we were talking about the four kingdoms 05:14 covered so far, Babylon... Medo-Persia... 05:17 Greece... and then Rome... 05:19 and saw that we're looking at a period of roughly a 1,000 years 05:22 of, you know, history in advance. 05:25 Yvonne: Hmmm... 05:26 Ivor: And this is what Daniel has... has showed so far 05:29 but we didn't get into yet is 05:31 what happens after the fourth kingdom, 05:33 now, we did talk about how the fourth kingdom, 05:35 Daniel said, would basically break down 05:38 right, and not be overthrown by a... 05:40 at least an earthly fifth kingdom. 05:43 All: Hmmm... hmmm... 05:44 Ivor: So, in Daniel chapter 2, verse 40... 41... 05:50 maybe if Yvonne, you can read verses 41 to 43. 05:56 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 05:57 "Whereas you saw the feet and toes, 05:59 partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, 06:02 the kingdom shall be divided; 06:04 yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, 06:07 just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay, 06:09 and as the toes of the feet 06:11 were partly of iron and partly of clay, 06:13 so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 06:17 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, 06:20 they will mingle with the seed of men; 06:22 but they will not adhere to one another, 06:25 just as iron does not mix with clay. " 06:28 Ivor: So, Daniel basically explains 06:31 that after this fourth kingdom 06:32 you would now have this kingdom of iron and of clay. 06:38 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 06:39 Ivor: And if you look at this, I mean, 06:41 one of these elements is added into this prophecy... 06:44 the other element was there from before. 06:47 So, Rome... you have the iron kingdom... 06:50 that's the fourth kingdom... 06:51 and then, you have this remnant of Rome 06:55 right? coming... coming in the toes 06:58 but now you have this additional clay that's being added. 07:01 Yvonne: Hmmm... 07:03 Ivor: So, the question is, what is this clay, right? 07:06 Ivor: Rome we can... we can almost assume that 07:09 the iron is what comes out of Rome 07:12 but the clay is a new kingdom that's added in here... 07:17 rather, new element... 07:18 Ivor: Right? So, what is the clay? 07:20 Let's go to Isaiah 64, 07:23 I'm going to have someone read for me... 07:24 Isaiah 64 verses 8 and 9... 07:28 Isaiah 64 verses 8 and 9. 07:31 Jason: Okay, "But now, O Lord, You are our Father; 07:36 We are the clay, and You our potter; 07:39 And all we are the work of Your hand. 07:42 Do not be furious, O Lord, 07:45 nor remember iniquity forever; 07:46 Indeed, please look... we all are Your people!" 07:50 James: Hmmm... hmmm... 07:51 Ivor: So, here clay is being used 07:53 as a symbol of God's people. 07:54 James: Yup... Yvonne: Hmmm... 07:55 Ivor: Right? So... but this is really strange 07:59 because why is the stone smiting the image 08:03 where it seems like, 08:06 "Well, this is God's people here. " 08:07 Yvonne: Right. 08:09 Ivor: Well, what's happening here is that this clay 08:10 professes to serve God. 08:12 James: Hmmm... hmmm... 08:14 Ivor: It claims that it's God's people 08:17 but there's something amiss about this. 08:19 James: Yes. Ivor: Right? 08:21 Yvonne: Hmmm... James: Hmmm... hmmm... 08:22 Ivor: So what you have happening is that clay represents 08:23 a spiritual power. 08:25 James: Hmmm... hmmm... religious power... 08:28 Ivor: Right? Church... religious... 08:29 while the clay represents 08:31 what came out of Rome which was... you know... 08:33 James: The iron you mean... 08:35 Ivor: Yeah, I'm sorry... the iron would represent 08:37 that which came out of Rome, 08:39 which is not a spiritual power, it's just a secular state power 08:43 so what you have in this clay and this iron 08:46 is a mingling of Church and State. 08:50 Yvonne: Ooooh... James: Hmmm... 08:54 Ivor: Some place called "Churchcraft" and "Statecraft. " 08:56 Yvonne: Hmmm... James: Hmmm... hmmm... 08:58 it's a mingling of two different principles. 08:59 Yvonne: Hmmm... James: Hmmm... hmmm... 09:00 Ivor: Now, why doesn't it mingle... 09:02 in fact, James, you read this verse... 09:04 you asked Jason to read this verse a little bit early 09:07 and this is very interesting. 09:08 It's Isaiah 48 verse 4 09:11 and I have it here, I'll go ahead and read it, 09:13 "Because I knew that thou art obstinate, 09:14 and thy neck as an iron sinew, 09:18 thy brow as brass... " 09:21 and it goes on... I mean, what is... 09:23 what the text is saying here is actually using iron and brass 09:29 as symbols of hard heartedness, right? 09:32 Stubbornness... 09:35 can you think of anyone in the Bible 09:40 that demonstrated a hard heart. 09:43 Jason: Pharaoh. 09:44 James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 09:45 Ivor: Pharaoh's heart was hardened. 09:47 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... James: Hmmm... 09:50 Ivor: He was against God... he rejected God... 09:52 he was... Pharaoh is what we would say in the Bible 09:56 is a symbol of Secularism or even Atheism. 10:01 Just a denial of God... 10:03 Yvonne: Yes... yes. 10:04 Ivor: You catch what I'm saying? Yvonne: Yes. 10:06 Ivor: So, what you have happening is, 10:09 you have two elements in Daniel 2... 10:12 in the toes of iron and clay... 10:13 one apparently religious... one... secular... 10:18 one that represents God 10:21 and the other that is obstinate... against God... 10:24 hard-hearted against God 10:25 and what's interesting about this is 10:27 that the clay represents a church element 10:32 and we're going to see that... 10:33 that this is actually speaking about spiritual Babylon. 10:36 James: Okay. Ivor: Right? 10:37 James: Hmmm... hmmm... 10:38 Ivor: Spiritual Babylon... 10:40 while the iron represents the exact opposite. 10:42 We look at Pharaoh... 10:45 we look at Pharaoh as the symbol of being hard hearted... 10:49 and who was Pharaoh a king of? 10:51 Yvonne: Egypt. 10:52 Ivor: He was king of Egypt which happened to be... 10:53 what kingdom? 10:55 Yvonne and Jason: South. 10:56 Ivor: South... so what you have happening is... 10:57 we got Babylon who was a king of the north... 11:00 spiritual Babylon... 11:01 and you have this secular entity 11:05 that we could just summarize as secularism... 11:08 as just Statecraft... 11:10 you know, it's not about God, 11:12 it's just about temporal survival 11:14 and as we look at what happened during the Dark Ages, 11:18 we actually see church power seeking to control secular power 11:25 and that never mixes 11:27 because you cannot convert someone 11:31 just by... just by force. 11:32 Yvonne: Right. James: Right. 11:34 Ivor: Right, you can't convert with force 11:35 and this is what the church did during the Dark Ages. 11:37 This is that period after Rome fell, 11:40 we know that through Constantine 11:43 and we talked about this in previous studies... 11:44 Constantine came upon the scene 11:46 and basically tried to mix a secular society 11:52 with Christianity. 11:53 Iron... and clay... 11:55 and the clay basically dominated the iron. 11:58 At first it was the other way around... 12:00 iron persecuted the people of God... 12:03 and now the clay steps into power 12:06 and now they're basically running the secular world 12:11 the then-known world 12:12 and so, the Bible goes on to say 12:14 that these powers would try to mix together and would not 12:17 and we can look at that in several ways, 12:19 number one is the fact that these European kingdoms... 12:23 nations... try to actually cleave together 12:27 through the intermingling... 12:28 James: Of their seed... 12:30 Ivor: Intermarriage... but also the fact 12:33 that you cannot mix the gospel with secularism. 12:39 All: Hmmm... hmmm... 12:40 Ivor: Right? Because what ends up happening 12:42 is that you produce... 12:43 you actually sow the seeds of skepticism 12:45 which leads to Atheism. 12:48 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 12:50 Ivor: And let us see that this is actually what happens 12:52 down the road. 12:53 James: Yeah. 12:55 Ivor: Right? Because of the secular and... 12:57 because of the Churchcraft and Statecraft mix 12:59 during the Dark Ages, 13:01 it gave such a perverted picture of who God was 13:04 that it ultimately leads to Atheism 13:07 which in our previous studies, you remember, 13:10 was symbolized by Egypt... the king of the south. 13:16 Right, and so, what you have happening is that 13:19 in the toes of Daniel chapter 2, you have this strange mingling 13:25 of secularism and Christianity. 13:29 Yvonne: Hmmm... 13:31 Ivor: King of the north and king of the south. 13:33 We don't know exactly what happens, 13:34 but we know that there is something in this mix of yeah... 13:39 Secularism and... and remember all this does... 13:41 is it actually sets the way for us 13:43 to better understand Daniel 11, 13:45 because what is in Daniel 11... is also in Daniel chapter 2. 13:49 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Okay. 13:51 Ivor: And it's just mind blowing 13:52 so, I'm going to share with you just another thought 13:54 because when the Bible talks about the se... 13:57 and by the way, if you have questions, please jump in, 13:59 because I know I'm sharing a lot here, 14:03 but, when the Bible says that in Daniel 2 14:06 that they will mingle themselves with the seed of men, 14:09 and James, you and I were talking about this 14:11 a little while ago, I think we both saw this... 14:13 James: Yeah, verse 43... yeah. 14:14 Ivor: So, that term "mingling with the seed of men" 14:18 it's a real strange term, like, what do you mean? 14:20 "Mingling with the seed of... " we're all men... 14:22 James: And we always want to go to the Bible first, 14:24 we have a historical basis that we use 14:26 and we talked about it just now 14:27 but it's good to go to the Bible 14:28 and find definition for that. 14:30 Ivor: Yeah, for... do you want to... do you want to hit that 14:31 or do you want to go to Genesis chapter... 14:33 James: You go ahead. 14:35 Ivor: All right, so, let me have you go to Genesis chapter 6... 14:37 Genesis chapter 6 14:38 and we're going to look at verses 1 and 2 14:41 because the interesting thing is, James, 14:43 like, I've looked at that verse 14:45 and I've always just kind of assumed like, 14:47 yeah, you know we're talking about the mingling of the 14:50 kings during this time, right? 14:52 James: Oh the one in Daniel, right, yeah, that's right. 14:55 Ivor: But when I was thinking about this, I was like, 14:58 "mingling with the seed of men" 15:00 like, where does this idea 15:02 of mingling with the seed of men come from? 15:03 James: And Churchcraft and Statecraft. 15:05 Ivor: Yeah, Churchcraft and Statecraft and... 15:06 and, you know, Churchcraft is supposed to represent good... 15:09 Statecraft... you know, nothing to do with God 15:11 where does this all come from? 15:13 and something just... 15:15 and I thought about Genesis chapter 6, 15:17 and let's go ahead and read Genesis 6 verses 1 and 2. 15:20 Jason: "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply 15:24 on the face of the earth, 15:25 and daughters were born to them, 15:27 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, 15:30 that they were beautiful; 15:31 and they took wives for themselves 15:33 of all whom they chose. " 15:34 Ivor: Okay, the reason that the flood occurs in... 15:40 in Genesis chapter 6 is because 15:42 the sons of God mingled with the daughters of men. 15:46 James: Hmmm... 15:48 Ivor: The question is, "Who were the sons of God?" 15:49 Some people say, 15:51 "Oh the sons of God... they are angels... 15:52 and they came in to men... " 15:54 well, that's not what the Bible is saying, 15:56 the sons of God actually represent 15:57 those who are supposed to be godly 15:59 while the sons of men would represent those who were ungodly 16:03 right? those who rejected God. 16:05 So, this mingling of the seed... 16:08 mingling with... with the "seed of men" idea 16:10 actually comes from Genesis 6 16:12 where you have the supposedly "righteous" 16:15 mingling with those who are not righteous. 16:18 James: Could I give a Bible verse on this real quick? 16:20 Ivor: Say again... 16:21 James: Can I give a Bible verse on this real quick? 16:24 So, in John chapter 1, it talks about the sons of men 16:26 and the sons of God... 16:28 it gives a verse that kind of clarifies this, 16:29 it says, "As many as received Him... " 16:31 verse 12, "to them gave He power 16:33 to become the sons of God... " 16:35 who were the sons of God? 16:36 "even those who believe on His name... " 16:40 so, these are believers... 16:42 these are believers... 16:43 Yvonne: Right... right... 16:44 James: And then it goes on in verse 13 to clarify, 16:46 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, 16:51 nor of the will of man, but of God. " 16:53 Yvonne: Hmmm... 16:54 James: So, that would be the children of men. 16:55 So, the children of men would be 16:57 those who were born of the flesh... 16:58 born of the will of man... 16:59 born of... of... of... let's see... born of blood... 17:02 and the sons of God are those that are believers. 17:04 So, that would be a Bible verse that would clarify... 17:07 Ivor: Absolutely, so, when we take this idea 17:10 back into Daniel chapter 2, what we're seeing... 17:13 this mingling with the seed of men 17:15 represents those who were supposed to be "Godly" 17:19 the clay... mingling with those who are rejecting God, 17:25 those who are secular... 17:26 those who, you know, have no... 17:28 no, you know, no desire to follow God. 17:33 Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... 17:34 Ivor: So, here's the thing, in Daniel 2 it actually says, 17:36 "they will mingle with the seed of men... " 17:39 and that's again... it's like, "Okay, seed of men... 17:41 who is 'they' 17:43 and how are they mingling with the seed of men?" 17:45 We know that something is going on with the seed of men. 17:49 It's not the seed of women... 17:50 it's the seed of men. 17:52 Yvonne: Right. 17:54 Ivor: So, then, it's... it's indicating 17:56 that whoever this "they" is 17:57 God is speaking about this "they" as if it's a woman 18:01 or women... 18:02 and what happens when we go to Revelation chapter 17... 18:07 what do we read about? 18:08 We read about this woman 18:10 sitting on a scarlet-colored beast... 18:12 having seven heads and ten horns 18:18 and this woman's name is "Mystery Babylon" 18:22 king of the north... 18:23 Babylon... mother of harlots 18:27 and abominations of the earth... why? 18:29 Because she has committed fornication with the... who? 18:31 "Kings of the earth" 18:34 the kings of the earth. 18:37 So, Daniel 2 is referencing 18:39 what we have already seen in Revelation, right? 18:42 This combining... somehow or another Daniel 2 is telling us 18:46 that ultimately the king of the north... 18:49 Babylon... is going to take rule over everything 18:54 and it's a powerful thought because this... hmmm... 18:59 what does the... what destroys this... 19:03 James: The stone. 19:05 Ivor: The stone... okay, where does the stone... 19:06 where does the stone come out of? 19:08 Yvonne: Mountain. 19:09 James: Without hands... 19:11 Ivor: Yeah, it's cut out of the mountain without hands, 19:12 right? 19:13 That's Christ coming from something... 19:15 So, He's coming from this mountain... 19:17 but what mountain is He coming from? 19:18 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 19:20 James: Mount Zion... 19:22 Ivor: The Bible says that God has laid a precious stone 19:26 in Zion... a cornerstone... 19:28 that's the stone... Jesus... 19:30 but the question is, "Where is Mount Zion?" 19:32 Psalm 48 verse 1 and 2, if someone can find that for me, 19:36 Psalm 48 verses 1 and 2... 19:38 James: We also need to read Psalm 40 verses 1 and 2. 19:43 Yvonne: "Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised 19:47 in the city of our God, in His holy mountain. 19:50 Beautiful in elevation, 19:52 the joy of the whole earth, 19:54 is Mount Zion on the sides of the north... " 19:57 Ivor: So, I'm asking the question? 19:59 Who is the true king of the north? 20:02 James: God is. Yvonne: God, yes. 20:04 Ivor: When... when He comes... 20:07 the person of Jesus Christ returns from Mount Zion, 20:11 as the true king of the north, who is He coming against? 20:13 James: The counterfeit king of the north. 20:15 Ivor: The counterfeit king of the north. 20:17 Yvonne: Oooooooh! 20:18 Ivor: That's what this is telling us. 20:20 James: "Who calls himself the King of kings. " 20:22 Ivor: "Who calls himself the King of kings. " 20:24 Yvonne: Wow! 20:25 Ivor: And the picture just forms this complete idea of, 20:29 whoa, I'm beginning to see why Michael stands up 20:32 because there's a counterfeit that's deceiving people 20:35 and saying, "Yeah, I'm the real king of the north. " 20:39 No, no, no, no, no... 20:40 by the way, remember that we talked about 20:43 how Nebuchadnezzar... in chapter 2 20:45 Nebuchadnezzar is troubled by this dream? 20:47 Yvonne: Yes. 20:48 Ivor: So, let's re-cap something real quick 20:49 our history... 20:51 Daniel... I'm sorry... king of the south 20:55 we begin Daniel 1 with the king of the south 20:58 pushing against the king of the north, 21:00 the king of the north pushes back 21:02 against the king of the south and defeats him. 21:04 Once he defeats him, he turns his attention to Jerusalem 21:09 and when he turns his attention to Jerusalem, 21:12 he is seeking to enforce the "wine of Babylon" 21:14 right? 21:16 James: Hmmm... hmmm... 21:17 Ivor: But in Daniel chapter 2, the king is now troubled. 21:21 The king of the north is troubled 21:23 by news that he hears from the north and from the east 21:29 and so, what we're seeing... this history... 21:32 this literal history of Daniel 1 and now Daniel 2, 21:35 is actually helping to set the foundation 21:38 for what we're going to understand in Daniel 11 21:41 because everything is leading up to Daniel 11. 21:43 Yvonne: Right. 21:44 James: He's troubled by the news that he hears from the north 21:47 i e... the stone that's coming from this mountain... 21:49 it's going to hit the image on its feet... 21:51 and the east... the other kingdom 21:52 is going to surpass him and take over. 21:54 Ivor: Not only that but remember, his kingdom... 21:58 literal kingdom of Babylon was supposed to fall to Cyrus 22:03 and Cyrus... his armies came from the north and the east, 22:08 the Medes were from the north 22:09 and the Persians were from the east, 22:12 so the combining of those two powers... 22:15 Nebuchadnezzar is basically troubled 22:17 by news that he hears literally from the north 22:20 and from the east 22:22 that Cyrus is coming... 22:24 he doesn't... I don't know if he knows him by name 22:26 but that this man, Cyrus, is coming to... 22:29 or this kingdom is coming to overthrow his kingdom. 22:32 James: He's seen the dream... 22:33 he doesn't understand it but he's seen it 22:35 and he is the head of gold 22:36 and he realizes the rest of that image is not going to be gold 22:40 so, it's troubling him and he understands the implications... 22:43 he's a smart man so this verse... 22:46 I don't know if... I mean Psalm 40 verses 1 and 2 22:50 read verse 3 also 22:53 and I just want you to think about this in relationship 22:55 to Revelation as well as to Daniel 22:57 and everything you've been talking about on events. 23:00 Jason: Okay, "I waited patiently for the Lord; 23:03 and He inclined to me, and heard my cry. 23:05 He also brought me up out of a horrible pit, 23:08 out of the miry clay, 23:10 and set my feet upon a rock, 23:12 and established my steps. 23:14 He has put a new song in my mouth... 23:17 praise to our God; 23:18 many will see it and fear, and will trust in the Lord. " 23:22 James: This is Three Angels' Message right here, 23:24 this is the Three Angels' Message. 23:25 So, the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God 23:29 and have the faith of Jesus 23:30 because they have been brought out of the horrible pit... 23:34 out of the miry clay... 23:35 Churchcraft and Statecraft are uniting in the end of time 23:38 enforcing the mark... enforcing worship... 23:41 no one can buy or sell... they've been pulled out of that, 23:44 they believe the gospel... they hear of the gospel... 23:46 they trust and have patience in Jesus 23:48 and then they sing a new song. 23:50 He's put a new song in their mouth... even praise to God 23:52 and many will see it and fear... fear God and give glory to Him 23:57 many will see it and fear... trust in the Lord. 23:58 Yvonne: Hmmm... 24:00 James: So, this is a summation. 24:01 When we look at prophecy again, 24:03 we want to emphasize that prophecy is very practical, 24:05 I mean, with all these prophetic symbolism 24:07 but it's talking about our experience... 24:09 it's talking about the patience that God wants us to have 24:11 waiting for him, 24:13 it's talking about He is going to pull us 24:14 out of this last conflict... 24:16 pull us out of that miry clay 24:17 and the compromise that takes place 24:18 and He's going to put a new song in our hearts... 24:21 He's going to set us on the rock Christ Jesus, 24:23 and many people are going to see it 24:24 and fear and trust in the Lord... 24:26 many people will be turned to the Lord because of... 24:28 so, all of this prophecy is... 24:29 in a sense what we've been talking about here... 24:31 is summarized in those three verses right there, 24:33 isn't that beautiful? Jason: Hmmm... hmmm... 24:34 Yvonne: So, is the miry clay then 24:37 a reference to the feet, maybe? 24:39 James: Yeah, the reference to the feet, 24:41 that's where the miry clay is, 24:42 it's right there in the feet... 24:43 these are the last days when everything is being mired up, 24:46 everything is being confused... 24:47 Churchcraft and Statecraft have been combined 24:49 and we have all the religious elements 24:51 being enforced by civil elements... 24:52 that's where we're going to... the direction we're heading... 24:54 and God... we're going to wait patiently for Him 24:57 and God is going to pull us out of all of that... 24:59 put that new song in our hearts... 25:00 cause us to stand on the rock, Christ Jesus. 25:02 So, what's going to happen in the secular world 25:05 and what happens in previous secular world history 25:08 is that people look to religion for a fix... 25:11 they're looking to fix what's happening... 25:14 the judgments... the calamities... 25:16 the immorality... 25:17 they're looking to... to get civil power to help fix it 25:20 and the "fix" is in the gospel, the "fix" is in Jesus Christ 25:23 and so, that's the summary here that we're seeing 25:26 here in Psalm 40 verses 1 through 3. 25:28 Ivor: Yeah, I think the bottom line is, 25:31 you can't use force to convert people. 25:32 James: Hmmm... Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm... 25:34 Ivor: Right, you can't depend upon... 25:36 and that's what Christianity is doing today, 25:38 they're seeking to convert people by passing laws 25:43 that make you be... 25:45 you know, you have to be righteous, 25:47 you have to follow the way of God 25:48 and I think, just trying to set up a society 25:51 and really, that's what people... 25:53 so many Christians are after, you know, 25:55 thinking that a society will be good 25:57 if we implement Christian laws and that's just... 25:59 that's just using force to try to convert outward behavior 26:02 and this is what Daniel 2 is speaking against, right? 26:05 You cannot convert through force. 26:08 It must be through the work of the Holy Spirit. 26:10 James: Now, that wouldn't undermine the idea of... 26:13 of enforcing morality. Ivor: That's right. 26:14 James: Morality is a good thing, 26:16 in fact, Paul even talks about this in Romans 13, 26:18 he distinguishes between the civil powers 26:21 that are established by God to enforce morality 26:24 and he quotes that a number of commandments 26:27 have to do with the last six commandments 26:29 but he never quotes the first four commandments 26:31 which have to do with worshiping God 26:33 and enforcing worship. 26:35 Now, a lot of religions do that today 26:36 in a lot of different countries worship is mandatory... 26:39 it's forced or, you know, you face major penalties 26:42 and the history of Christianity has also done that 26:45 and what Bible prophecy is predicting 26:47 is that we're going to implement that on a stronger level 26:50 into our future. 26:52 United States of America is a country 26:54 that really has established the separation of Church and State 26:56 but there's a lot of people and Christians especially 27:00 that are... are questioning that. 27:02 Should it really be separated? 27:04 And one of the reasons I think is 27:06 because of the increasing immorality 27:08 and because we don't understand the difference 27:10 between enforcing moral laws 27:12 that have to do with the last six commandments 27:14 and how we relate to each other 27:15 and enforcing worship 27:17 which has to do with how we relate to God 27:18 and if we can distinguish those two, 27:20 I think we can find that... strike a good balance 27:22 but this last-day power of prophecy 27:25 is not interested in striking a balance... 27:27 it's like, you swing from one level of immorality 27:30 to another level of enforcement. 27:31 Ivor: And the powerful thing is 27:33 that you see it as being fulfilled today 27:35 which means that Daniel accurately prophesied 27:39 over 25 hundred years of history in advance. 27:43 So, give or take 600 years from the skeptic, 27:47 all right, we'll do 2000 years, instead of 2,500... yeah. 27:52 James: But, we are there... we are there, 27:54 praise God and we are also there 27:56 as far as time goes, so, we'll pick this up next time. 27:58 Yvonne: Good segue. |
Revised 2020-05-04