Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Dianne Wagner, Antionette Duck
Series Code: TAC
Program Code: TAC000007A
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00:08 Should Christian churches talk about abortion
00:11 or should they keep silent. 00:13 And if they do talk about it what should they say 00:15 and what should they do? 00:17 We're going to explore that 00:18 right here next on The Abortion Controversy. 00:50 Welcome back to The Abortion Controversy. 00:52 This is Program 7 of 13. 00:54 We have been discussing the topics 00:56 of life, death, fetuses, a personhood, abortion, 01:01 whether it's right, whether it's wrong 01:03 and about trauma that women had gone through 01:05 who have had abortions. 01:07 My guests, my special guests have been Antionette Duck 01:10 and Dianne Wagner of Mafgia ministry. 01:14 They are two ladies that have hit the-trail. 01:17 They are speaking in conferences 01:19 before physicians 01:21 and they're just talking to a lot of people about issues 01:23 that need to be talked about. 01:25 So here we go. 01:28 One more program, at least for today. 01:31 Ladies, thank you again for joining me 01:34 and for sharing your stories and sharing hearts. 01:36 Now today we're gonna talk about the church 01:38 and I'd like to start out with the couple of Bible verses 01:41 in the Book of Matthew, you are familiar with this, 01:44 at the beginning of the New Testament. 01:46 John the Baptist was a voice. 01:48 "The voice of one crying in the wilderness 01:50 preparing the way for the Lord," 01:52 for Jesus when he came, His first coming 01:56 and then after Jesus' Resurrection 01:58 He told His disciples, He said, "Go into all the world." 02:02 And he gave the church a mission, 02:04 to be a voice in wilderness like John the Baptist 02:06 and to reveal His love and His goodness, His Cross, 02:11 the value of life and standards of right and wrong 02:16 and to do it with a heart of love. 02:18 So we're gonna talk about the church 02:20 and I'm really following your lead. 02:21 You can get them in your sequence 02:23 and this is where you want to go. 02:25 So Dianne, I think I'll start with you. 02:28 Talk about the church 02:30 and what happened with your church 02:33 when you found yourself as a, I believe it was a 25 year old. 02:37 You were engaged to be married, you made a mistake one time, 02:42 discovered that you were pregnant 02:44 and you life was in a "worldwind" 02:47 as you told us before and so let's just zero 02:50 in a little more on the church issue 02:52 and what you needed and maybe what you didn't get. 02:57 Well, you made a couple of good points 02:59 I want to capitalize on right now 03:01 and the voice in the wilderness 03:04 and a voice is not a voice if it's silent. 03:08 That's right, you got a good point there. 03:09 So based on that, 03:11 when you said you know, 03:13 should the Christian churches remain silent on this issue, 03:18 no, they shouldn't. 03:20 There should be a voice on this issue. 03:22 Especially since, as we talked about this before, 03:25 approximately 45 million babies 03:28 are being aborted world wide every year 03:32 and if we do the math and 57 or so million in America 03:37 since 1973 so wow, this is a, 03:42 it's not a topic to just throw it the rug. 03:46 You got to talk about it. Exactly. 03:48 By remaining silent we are condoning it 03:52 and as a church, 03:53 we are supposed to be standard-bearer. 03:55 And what is the standard 03:57 if we are supposed to be standard-bearer 03:59 but the Ten Commandments. 04:00 You know the character, 04:03 Jesus' character is reflected in those Ten Commandments. 04:06 Now I love the church as I told you 04:08 that I was brought up in 04:10 and we were Commandment keepers. 04:11 We kept the Sabbath, which I loved, 04:13 I have wonderful memories. 04:15 You know, and there was a time 04:17 when I stepped away from the church, 04:19 like I told you after my parents had divorced. 04:22 I saw some of the inconsistencies 04:24 and hypocrisies 04:26 and so I had to step back and ask God some questions. 04:30 And He can deal with that and He answered them 04:33 so when my husband and I gonna be married, 04:36 we knew we wanted to be a part of this church, 04:39 our Seventh Day Adventist church 04:41 and we wanted a Christian home. 04:44 But the thing that really breaks my heart 04:48 is that even though this church I loved 04:51 valued the Sabbath commandment, remembered the Sabbath. 04:55 Number four. 04:56 Number four, it was silent in so many ways on the six. 05:01 "Thou shalt not kill" 05:04 and the topic of abortion wasn't addressed, 05:08 I don't ever remember hearing the topic of abortion. 05:11 In all of your 25 years. 05:13 I don't remember that. 05:14 Now you know, they were girls in academy in colleges 05:17 you know, there might be whispering 05:19 that this one had to have an abortion and that one. 05:21 But it was always kept so quiet. 05:24 It was never talked about. And it was a reality. 05:27 It was a cruel reality of what was going on. 05:30 And so I do have regrets that my standard-bearer 05:35 um, dropped the ball you know, and didn't talk about it. 05:41 So I, I didn't go to the church when I found myself pregnant. 05:45 So you can just clarify to me, 05:47 when you found yourself pregnant, 05:49 what would you have wanted looking back? 05:53 What would have wanted your church to say to you. 05:56 You are valuable. 05:57 Just like we were talking about the intrinsic valuable, 06:00 you are valuable and that baby is valuable you know. 06:05 And that it's a real baby. 06:06 And it's uh, yes, it's a real baby with values. 06:10 You know we get so focused on the sin and hiding the sin 06:14 you know, okay, we were sexually active 06:17 before our wedding you know. 06:18 So much emphasis is put on the sin 06:22 that we forget that our Savior who has died for our sins, 06:26 to redeem us from that pit you know. 06:29 And it doesn't take away at all, 06:31 the value that's been placed on each one of us 06:35 meaning, even though I messed up. 06:37 And the baby that I was carrying 06:39 and that was not, 06:41 there was nothing like that in fact, 06:43 you know, the message I got from the pulpit, 06:45 it was you know, from another church was, 06:49 that God couldn't forgive and wouldn't forgive. 06:51 And that wasn't in you church. That was a different church. 06:53 That was another church that 06:54 one of my co-workers had invited us 06:57 but the church that was speaking about it. 06:59 That was after you had the abortion? 07:01 That was after the decision. 07:02 So your church wasn't talking about it, 07:04 the other church that you went to after you had an abortion, 07:06 was talking about it. 07:08 They were talking about it. 07:09 But the way they were talking it 07:10 was driving you away. 07:12 Absolutely. 07:13 So you needed something 07:14 that obviously you'd had to deal 07:16 with need for forgiveness 07:17 for what you did with your husband. 07:19 I mean, we all need to you know, 07:20 realize that moral purity is God's plan. 07:23 But then when you found yourself pregnant 07:25 then you needed something else 07:26 to kick in another message of love 07:29 that you were still loved and that God could forgive you 07:31 and now you have a new life in you 07:33 and that life is valuable just as you are valuable. 07:36 Absolutely, so you asked me, 07:37 what I would have liked to have heard. 07:40 And that would've been it. 07:41 You know, and we used watch. 07:43 We watched how other people are dealt with you know, 07:45 I saw how my mother who loved the church you know. 07:49 She was the one who saw to it 07:51 that we got a Christian education 07:52 and that you know, tithe. 07:54 Paying tithe was important to her 07:56 and taking us to Sabbath school every week you know, 07:59 and so when I saw how they dealt with her issue, 08:04 when her, my father were divorced, 08:06 you know it was like 08:10 wow, if that's the way it's dealt with over a divorce 08:13 you know, pregnancy out of wedlock 08:15 you know, and I knew so. 08:18 I just didn't have security which makes me sad 08:21 because I want you to know I love my church 08:23 and I still believe that Lord has put a high calling 08:26 on our church but I don't think we should think that 08:29 we are not above you know, repair. 08:33 We got repair work. 08:34 Antionette, I'll get to in just a second 08:35 but I got one more question I just... 08:37 Absolutely. 08:38 I got to ask you, did you also need to hear from your church 08:42 when you were pregnant, 08:45 prior to your abortion that abortion was something 08:49 that you just should not do, that it was wrong 08:53 rather than you know, you're free 08:57 and if you choose to do it and that's your choice? 09:00 I think that's were this silence comes in 09:03 because when we are silent about an issue, 09:06 we are really making a pretty loud statement 09:09 as far as you know, if we believe it's wrong 09:12 because that baby is valuable 09:14 and that baby was created in the image of God, 09:17 the creator, that we are celebrating 09:19 the Sabbath as a memorial to the creation, 09:23 you know, it just really rocks the boat 09:25 there as far as being consistent so um, 09:30 I might have forgotten your question. 09:33 Did you need the church to tell you that... 09:36 That abortion was wrong? That abortion was wrong? 09:38 That's right rather than just telling you 09:41 that you are free to make that choice 09:43 because I know Antionette 09:45 you're gonna talk about that more, 09:46 about the freedom issue. 09:47 You know, this is all a big, this all wrapped up together. 09:50 Yeah, as a society we may have freedom 09:52 to go get an abortion and this country. 09:54 It's legal. 09:55 Right, but as a church, if we are the standard-bearer, 09:58 we're putting our confidence I our creator. 10:01 You know the church, the church is the Lord's bride. 10:05 We are out of his mouth piece here on the earth you know. 10:08 What we say should represent the Lord in His standards. 10:13 And because nobody told you that 10:14 you eventually had an abortion and it almost ruined your life. 10:17 It did and I really had not ever, 10:20 I had never even thought about abortion. 10:22 It never been really a part of my life 10:25 except for the secrets you hear here and there in school 10:29 and I do wish it had been. 10:31 I wish that and I, it's one of my goals 10:34 that our young people are educated about abortion 10:37 and the sacredness of life. 10:39 The answer is not abortion. 10:41 Got it. 10:42 Antionette, you're next. 10:45 You have a lot to say I know. 10:47 Well, you know, I think that we really see as ministry 10:50 we see the churches roll in three ways. 10:54 We do see the church as the standard-bearer, 10:56 as a refuge and as a resource. 10:59 In Acts 26:18, it says, 11:02 "I am sending you to open their eyes, 11:04 to turn them from darkness to light 11:06 and from the power of Satan to God 11:09 so that they may receive forgiveness of sins 11:11 and an inheritance among those 11:12 who are sanctified by faith in Me." 11:17 We share what is true 11:18 and in terms of being a standard-bearer, 11:20 we as a church, there is some, I think there's an attitude 11:23 or maybe a concern that in speaking on this issue 11:27 we're going to condemn or as Dianne 11:29 has shared that she experienced 11:30 or people just aren't quite sure how to handle it 11:33 and so somehow sharing the truth 11:36 of the sanctity of life 11:38 is somehow in contrary 11:41 or opposite to the gospel message. 11:43 We believe that it goes hand in hand 11:45 with the gospel message. 11:46 The reason that we seek out what is true 11:50 so that we can be a vessel 11:51 through which the captive is set free 11:54 There is this wonderful book 11:59 that I've read that had a line in it. 12:01 The book is called "Redeeming in Love." 12:03 The line was, 12:04 "Would you have her hanged on her cross forever?" 12:06 And when I read that, 12:08 the magnitude of that just struck me 12:12 because the reality is there's a common, 12:15 a common theme among all of us 12:17 is that someone's going to hang on our cross 12:21 and it's either is gonna be us 12:22 or it's going to be our creator. 12:24 And the fact is that we can't pay that debt. 12:31 If we don't yield our lives in humility to the Lord 12:34 and confess our sins to him and find that freedom there, 12:38 we ourselves will be hanging on that cross 12:41 and we will spend the rest of our lives striving 12:44 and grasping and scraping as we are desperate 12:49 to be made whole and to be set free. 12:52 When you said her, 12:53 what, didn't you said the title was... 12:55 The title was "Redeeming in love." 12:57 And then will she hang on her cross forever? 12:59 "Would you have her hang on her cross forever?" 13:01 And the "her" being? 13:03 A woman. A woman. 13:05 So you are saying that 13:06 if she does n't deal with the issue or she. 13:09 I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. 13:10 I'm saying if the church isn't the standard-bearer 13:12 that points her to the cross. 13:14 Points her being the woman. 13:16 The post-abortive woman. 13:17 Okay, all right, that's what I'm trying to understand. 13:19 Where is she going to go in essence? 13:24 'Cause she'll be suffering the guilt all her life, right? 13:27 Right, if she doesn't find freedom. 13:28 If she doesn't give it to Jesus, 13:29 then she's on the cross. 13:31 Okay, I'm just trying to get that. 13:32 Okay. 13:34 Yeah, and what we can't fail to see here 13:36 is that our separates us just as profoundly 13:40 as the sin of a post-abortive woman 13:42 or a post-abortive man. 13:43 We're all equal at the foot of the cross 13:45 and every single sin that we've ever committed 13:47 separates us from the holy, perfect standard 13:50 that we have not kept. 13:52 And if we fail to speak honestly 13:59 about this issue, if we excuse it, 14:02 if we trivialize it, 14:04 if we dehumanize the unborn as we talked about 14:08 because we're trying to soft pedal 14:09 the issue somehow. 14:12 We are going to stand at as barrier to redemption 14:16 and freedom for the very person who so desperately needs it. 14:20 You don't need to be forgiven for something that isn't sin 14:23 and our job is to speak the truth in love 14:28 to be honest about this issue. 14:32 But as the standard-bearer, to say, 14:34 you are made in the image of the Lord, so is your baby. 14:37 And the father of this child, 14:40 you are made in the image of the Lord, 14:41 parents or the grand parents, 14:43 you are made in the image of the Lord, 14:44 Pastor who's been sought for counsel, 14:46 doctor who's been sought for the abortion, 14:48 every single one of you 14:49 were made in the image of the Lord, 14:51 so was that unborn child. 14:52 I see, I got it 14:54 and so the churches' role is to tell the truth 14:56 about this issue, is to show the value of life, 14:59 is to show the value of the woman, 15:01 the baby and that it is wrong to have an abortion. 15:06 With the point of, of pointing people 15:07 to the cross... 15:09 So that, yeah, so the forgiveness is there 15:10 when I said it's wrong to have abortion. 15:12 We'll get into other programs, the issue of rape and incest 15:15 and if woman's life is at stake, 15:16 we'll explore or that. 15:18 But the basic idea, I mean if you got 15:20 57 million who had abortions 15:22 and they are, a lot of them are struggling with guilt 15:24 in order for them, you were saying 15:26 to help them through this guilt 15:27 so they don't hang on a cross for the rest of their lives. 15:30 They have to be willing to accept the truth 15:32 and the church needs to communicate 15:33 that truth in love 15:35 so people can take responsibility, 15:37 understand, make the right choices 15:38 and then trust Jesus and then get out of the pit. 15:42 And that way the church moves from standard-bearer to refuge, 15:47 a place where people can with security 15:50 just like the cities of refuge in the Bible you know, 15:54 when someone had broken the law, 15:56 they ran to the city of refuge for safety and protection 16:00 and it's symbolic of Jesus Christ. 16:03 Again, our church representative 16:06 of Jesus Christ, what better place 16:08 for a person to run to than the church? 16:11 They can't run into a church if they're feeling condemned. 16:14 They're condemned already. 16:15 You know, the Lord didn't come to condemn 16:18 just like you know, Sydna Masse who has Ramah International, 16:22 a post abortive program that I've mentioned to you 16:25 that she has some excellent material. 16:28 You know, she talks about the woman 16:30 that was caught in adultery, excuse me, 16:33 and you know, how the Lord told her, 16:37 "Go and sin no more. I condemn you not." 16:39 And when I read that I was just you know, 16:42 we're doing a pretty good job 16:43 at condemning ourselves you know. 16:47 So back to the city of refuge, 16:49 I look at the church as a place of refuge 16:51 that a person should be able to go to for safety 16:55 and protection you know. 16:56 We will like, we are the standard-bearer 16:59 but we're not the one that condemns. 17:00 I see. 17:02 It's a balance, a beautiful balance. 17:03 So hold up the standard, show people 17:04 what's right and wrong and if they've fallen then, 17:08 a place where they can come and find forgiveness 17:11 and value and healing at the same time. 17:13 Absolutely. 17:14 That's where you really can feel the mercy of the Lord. 17:18 you know, He's the God of justice and mercy. 17:22 It's a beautiful thought. 17:24 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely 17:26 and what I really love about Sydna's book 17:27 was that she said it was so necessary 17:30 for her to hear, "Neither do I condemn you. 17:33 Go and sin no more." 17:34 And are we really so different from the post abortive woman? 17:37 No, we, for some reason we think of abortion 17:40 or the sin of abortion 17:43 as though it's so different from our sin 17:45 but in reality we are equal before the Lord 17:49 and how often have I needed to hear Him say, 17:52 "Neither do I condemn you, Antionette. 17:54 Go and sin no more." 17:55 It's, that's, that's the message 17:57 that all of us are desperate to hear 17:59 but especially, especially for a post-abortive woman, 18:02 especially for a post-abortive man, 18:05 it's so critical, it's so critical. 18:09 So then is the church as a standard-bearer, 18:12 the refuge and now as a resource 18:16 and I love Antionette's story of her mother. 18:19 You know, the first time I heard Antionette 18:21 tell her story, it was at the GYC 18:24 where we first met her 18:25 and she, if I can share this story now? 18:27 Oh, sure. 18:29 She was telling us about her mother 18:31 and how her mother was in crisis pregnancy 18:33 and how she through Christian intervention 18:37 had changed her mind and had kept this baby 18:40 and this baby was Antionette and it really gets to me 18:45 when I think about this story because as I heard this story, 18:48 I realized this young woman here 18:50 is the age that my first born 18:52 would've been if I hadn't aborted. 18:55 And I just thought resource, the church is a resource 18:59 'cause that church didn't just tell her mother 19:03 that abortion was wrong. 19:05 They said come, let us help you, you know. 19:08 And, go ahead and tell the story 19:10 of what they did for your mother. 19:11 I love that. They did. 19:13 We, um, my mother and I eventually, 19:18 when we were on our own, 19:20 well, the church really just embraced us. 19:22 They gave us food, they gave us shelter, 19:24 they gave us clothing, they literally wrapped 19:27 their arms around us 19:29 because my mother is married it was so volatile. 19:32 We really needed help from time to time 19:34 and we really needed a safe place 19:36 to go to at different times 19:37 and the church literally wrapped 19:39 their arms around us. 19:40 They didn't, they weren't silent, 19:42 they didn't say, do what you want, 19:44 it doesn't matter and they didn't just say 19:47 oh, life is sacred 19:50 and you shouldn't have an abortion and then stop. 19:52 They literally became the hands 19:54 and feet of the Lord extended 19:56 and literally embraced us as mother and child. 20:01 And later they even, they actually had a home 20:06 for women who had chosen 20:07 where inter crisis pregnancy situation 20:09 and then chosen to give life to their children 20:13 and put the children up for adoption 20:15 and women could go and live there 20:17 for that period and they could stay in school 20:20 or try and find a job 20:22 and they had somewhere to go during that pregnancy 20:27 and my mother actually served 20:28 as a house mother for that home 20:31 for a period of a couple of years. 20:33 And the church opened that up to her 20:35 when again she needed somewhere to go. 20:37 They truly, completely embraced the woman and the child. 20:41 It was a holistic approach that 20:44 honoured the value of both of us. 20:46 And it made a huge difference in your life. 20:48 Absolutely. 20:49 So in your situation the church really, 20:51 it really just, it fell flat. 20:54 It didn't, it didn't give you what you needed. 20:57 In your situation, it was a different church 21:00 and they were there for you and for your mom. 21:02 They were. 21:03 That just shows you know, Christian churches 21:06 have a lot of work to do. 21:07 We need to be willing to deal with this issue 21:09 and we need to be recognized there's a whole lot of women, 21:13 society needs help and we've got to you know, 21:15 we are the hands and the feet of Jesus. 21:19 We are the voice in the wilderness, 21:20 we got to speak out and we got to draw people in 21:22 just like Jesus loved that woman 21:24 and said that, He said, I don't condemn you 21:27 but go and sin no more. 21:28 He recognized that there was sin but He loved her. 21:31 He recognized the sin and by recognizing the sin 21:36 but not having the condemning spirit, 21:38 look at the impact that made on that woman's life. 21:40 It changed her life. 21:42 It changed her life and I love that 21:44 because He recognized the sin, 21:47 He didn't just soft pedal the sin, no. 21:50 The sin was there 21:52 but there wasn't the condemnation, right? 21:54 If churches can grasp that 21:58 then we really will be a voice crying in the wilderness. 22:01 You know, we really will melt hearts 22:03 and bring people to Jesus. 22:06 It will be different. 22:08 In the wilderness of the world will be God's voice. 22:11 That's right. And that's the calling, right? 22:12 That's the calling of the church. 22:14 That's the calling, yeah. 22:15 To come along side, it's not condoning 22:19 a pregnancy outside of the bounds 22:22 that the Lord has established 22:24 but when someone finds themselves 22:26 in a situation like that for us to walk alongside her 22:29 and say, I will not abandon you, 22:32 you will not walk alone, I'll walk with you. 22:35 I will be the hands and feet of the Lord extended. 22:38 It's life changing, absolutely life changing. 22:41 And can you think of another example of somebody else 22:45 that this happened to that 22:46 really changed their life as well? 22:49 I mean, I'm sure in your ministry 22:51 you talk to other women 22:53 and I'm sure there must be other ladies 22:56 that you met that the church has reached out to them. 23:01 Well, actually a lot of the stories 23:03 that I have heard, they have come to me 23:05 and they've said, and Antionette heard this too, 23:09 "We are so thankful 23:11 somebody is finally talking about it." 23:13 Really? 23:15 And then they'll say, "Let me tell you my story 23:17 or can I tell you my story?" 23:20 And it's like they have pent up. 23:21 There have been who have it's been years 23:25 and they've never told a soul. 23:27 And it tears our heart 23:30 and it's at the foot of Jesus experience 23:33 because these women are confessing 23:37 and pulling out this pain that 23:41 they have kept stuffed for years. 23:44 It's hard but it's beautiful 23:47 because they are finally finding freedom 23:52 and peace and rest. 23:54 So instead of a lot of choice where you're hearing women 23:57 who have been helped, you are hearing women 23:59 who have needed the help and haven't found it 24:02 and when they are listening to you, 24:03 then they are getting help from you, right? 24:06 Yes, by speaking of... 24:07 By talking about it, you, either been drawn to you like, 24:10 thank you finally for opening your mouth 24:14 and talking about some thing that I need, that they need. 24:18 It's very humbling because sometimes it makes 24:22 you know, it's easy to tear up but you know, women have 24:25 you know, one woman we heard from, 24:28 she said, "Don't stop telling your story." 24:31 You know that's what she told me 24:33 and it was like don't ever stop telling your story 24:36 and more and more I'm hearing women come to me 24:39 and Antionette, both of us and they are starting to say, 24:43 "You can share my story." 24:44 You know, not every one is in position 24:47 that I'm in where they can say, I'm so and so, 24:50 I live in so and so, this is my story. 24:52 You know, they have reasons. 24:54 They don't want to be, their name out there 24:57 but they're sharing with us their story 25:00 so that it'll make an impact on other women 25:02 and other women hear those stories, 25:04 they start speaking up and so that's where I think, 25:07 as these people start feeling this freedom, no condemnation. 25:13 That's when the Holy Spirit 25:15 is just pouring out in these hearts. 25:18 It's a voice crying in the wilderness. 25:21 There is a change. That's what you are. 25:23 You are the voice crying in the wilderness. 25:24 It's like Jenna, do remember Jenna? 25:26 Wasn't her name Jenna? 25:28 She gave a long note on my Facebook page 25:30 and she told me how much 25:32 she's been helped by your ministry. 25:35 Well, praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 25:37 And they are other people that have been emailing me as well 25:39 that they are just, they're so grateful 25:42 for what you are doing, and that you are talking out, 25:44 that you are speaking out. 25:45 You know, I'm glad Jenna communicated 25:46 with you because... 25:48 I think her name was Jenna. 25:49 Now that you mentioned her because my husband and I, 25:51 we've been praying for her in fact, 25:53 when she wrote us a letter 25:54 and I don't need to include the details of the letter. 25:58 My husband was the one who stopped me 26:00 and said, "Dianna, let's pray right now." 26:03 You know, there're so many of them. 26:05 I got a. 26:07 well, I bring it up at another meeting 26:08 but in the men, it's not just women, Steve, 26:12 the men who realized that they should've been fathers 26:16 and heads of households. 26:18 Well, we will talk about how. 26:19 We have another program, it's Not Just a Woman's Issue. 26:22 And we're talking about the men 26:24 and we are just about out of time. 26:26 I want to read a text 26:27 in Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 30, 26:31 where Paul is talking about the church 26:33 and he says that, "We are members of His body 26:36 and of His flesh and of His bones." 26:38 I heard a story once about during World War 2, 26:41 there was a village that was destroyed by bombs 26:44 and there was a church in there 26:45 and the church was pretty much destroyed 26:47 except for a statue of Jesus was there still standing 26:50 but it had no hands and somebody saw that statue 26:53 and they put a sign over the head 26:57 and the sign said that, 26:58 "Jesus has no hands in this world 27:01 but your hands." 27:04 And I heard that story and it just really touched me 27:06 that the, the mission of the church of Jesus Christ 27:08 is to be God's hands in this world 27:10 and we got to deal with this issue. 27:12 We got to talk about this issue 27:13 because people need help and so we just prayed 27:16 that this will encourage you to speak out to find resources 27:19 and to learn how to help people 27:21 who are struggling with abortion. 27:23 Dianne Wagner and Antionette Duck show 27:25 powerful life changing information 27:27 in this 13 Part series, The Abortion Controversy. 27:31 To order this six and half hour of DVD set for $34.95. 27:36 Call 1.800.782.4253, that's 1.800.782.4253 27:43 or you can write to White Horse Media, 27:45 PO Box 1139, Newport, Washington 99156 27:49 or order online at whitehorsemedia.com. |
Revised 2015-08-27