Participants:
Series Code: TCR
Program Code: TCR180008B
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00:04 Welcome back to The Creator Revealed.
00:06 If we believe 00:08 the biblical account of creation, 00:09 and we certainly do, 00:11 then we know that man was created special, 00:15 and that means that human rights are rooted 00:19 in the Bible's account of creation. 00:22 Well, certainly, history has shown us 00:24 that when people take 00:26 this particular understanding of humanity, 00:29 created in the image of God, created equal, 00:34 then with that understanding, 00:36 there are all kinds of wonderful benefits 00:37 that come along with that. 00:39 Amen. 00:40 We're going to meet a lawyer, 00:44 a lawyer who has practice in the area of civil rights 00:47 and religious freedom, 00:49 and his name happens to be James Standish. 00:51 And he can? 00:52 And he might just be my brother. 00:54 So I'm pretty proud of him. 00:56 And we certainly have had some 00:58 very interesting conversations together 01:00 over the course of our lifetime. 01:03 So here's my brother. 01:05 Let's meet him. 01:07 Welcome, James. 01:09 Thanks. 01:10 Well, it's great that you could join us. 01:13 And we've been talking 01:16 about this idea of human rights. 01:21 You're a lawyer, so tell us where exactly do our ideas 01:27 about the creation, 01:28 sort of, feed into the laws that we have to follow 01:32 in a country like the United States 01:34 or really in many other systems of law? 01:40 Well, as you know, 01:42 our idea of human rights is first expressed 01:45 in the Declaration of Independence, 01:47 where it says that we're endowed 01:48 by our creator. 01:50 So right from the very beginning, 01:52 the United States anchored our human rights 01:55 in the idea that we're all equal children of God. 01:59 Very interestingly, as you'll also know, 02:02 around the same time as the United States 02:05 had went through its revolution 02:06 and then adopted its constitution, 02:09 the country of France was going through 02:11 a similar revolution, 02:13 but they did not anchor their rights 02:15 in the idea of the Creator God, 02:18 and their revolution ended up as a bloodbath. 02:23 And it's actually their revolution 02:26 that has been more commonly followed 02:28 over the years than the American Revolution. 02:30 We think of the Marxist revolutions, 02:32 we think of the Fascist revolutions, 02:34 all of those are anchored in a secular idea 02:39 of the rights of the people and the rights of the state, 02:43 a very different idea. 02:45 One of the things that's interesting, 02:47 Tim and Shelley, that at least I find fascinating 02:50 is in addition to the United States 02:53 idea of human rights, 02:54 we have article, 02:56 the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 02:58 that came out after World War II 03:02 through the United Nations' process. 03:03 And what is interesting is, over the years, 03:07 a number of regimes have critiqued 03:10 the United Nations Human Rights Declaration 03:14 because they say 03:16 it is anchored in a Judeo-Christian 03:19 view of the world and therefore, 03:21 it's not applicable to societies 03:24 that are not anchored in that same worldview. 03:30 And in a way, their right is overwhelming evidence 03:33 that Christians and Jews work together to formulate 03:37 the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 03:39 And in a way, they are correct to say 03:42 those rights may not apply to our culture 03:45 because we don't buy the premises of those rights. 03:48 But then... 03:49 Obviously, people argue... 03:51 But then how would we respond then 03:54 to, let's say, atheists who say, 03:57 "Well, look, we don't need the Bible. 03:59 We don't need any God. 04:01 We can just sort of be good." 04:04 And why isn't that enough? 04:08 Well, the first question is to those who say, 04:10 "My religion is to be good or we can just be good 04:13 without the Bible," 04:15 is this, what does it mean to be good? 04:19 For some of us, it means, 04:21 the statement to be good 04:24 means respecting other people's rights 04:28 to follow their own faith traditions, 04:30 it means following the freedom of speech, 04:32 permitting people the right to assemble, 04:34 etcetera. 04:35 For other people, the idea of allowing 04:38 that level of freedom is a dangerous thing 04:40 that results in behaviors or beliefs 04:42 that they disagree with, and therefore, 04:44 think you're objectively wrong. 04:46 Similarly, for some of us, 04:48 we believe that good involves protecting life, 04:52 both at the beginning of life and at the end of life. 04:55 For others, 04:57 there's nothing good about that. 04:59 It is just a matter, 05:01 and matter doesn't have innate rights. 05:04 It just has a utility. 05:07 And if it's unwanted, 05:10 then it should be able to be terminated. 05:13 So those... 05:14 So there we would be talking about the kinds of things 05:18 that we hear, 05:20 philosophers or ethicists like Peter Singer 05:23 then talking about this kind of utilitarian idea. 05:29 Exactly. 05:31 And, you know, once again, this goes to the heart of... 05:34 You can't say, "Let's just do what's good 05:38 because what is good, what is love, etcetera." 05:42 These are really the basis of a discussion. 05:45 And if you have a different view 05:47 of where you're getting the definitions from, 05:50 you're gonna come ultimately to different outcomes. 05:53 And you and I both lived in Southeast Asia 05:55 during very tumultuous times. 06:00 We know that people 06:01 who were part of Pol Pot's Cambodia, 06:03 for example, 06:05 they thought they were creating an ideal world. 06:08 And if you're creating an ideal utopia, 06:11 you have right to kill those who stand in its way. 06:15 It's the same philosophy that Robespierre 06:19 during the French Revolution went through. 06:21 If you're standing in the way of human perfection, 06:25 eliminating you benefits everybody, 06:28 so there's a utilitarian analysis 06:30 that says you should do it. 06:32 On the converse side, 06:33 there are those of us who believe 06:35 if you're created by God, 06:37 you have inalienable rights, that is, 06:39 those rights cannot be taken away, 06:41 and those rights include the right to liberty and life. 06:46 And even if there is a utility 06:50 in ending someone's life, 06:54 that utility cannot be pursued 06:57 because the right supersedes the utility. 07:01 Okay, so... Translate that to English. 07:04 What that means is, as I understand it, 07:08 what that would mean then is, "Hey..." 07:11 Really, when you were talking about things 07:14 like the value of somebody's life, 07:17 if one person's life, 07:21 if you judge it to have less value 07:23 than somebody else's life, 07:25 then it's okay to kill that other person, 07:28 it's okay for that person whose life is less valuable 07:32 to be dealt with differently. 07:35 There is no equality between people. 07:38 You are not equal just because you're human. 07:43 So a smart rich person might have more value 07:47 than a poor sick person. 07:48 And for our viewers and those who are listening, 07:52 who believes this? 07:54 Oh, this is a widely held belief, 07:55 but perhaps James could comment on that. 07:59 In our lifetimes, many people have believed it. 08:02 That's how we got Pol Pot in Cambodia. 08:05 It's how we had the about... 08:07 They estimated somewhere 08:09 in the range of 30 million people died 08:10 during Mao's rule of China. 08:12 It's what happened in the Soviet Union 08:15 where 10s of millions... 08:16 If you add up all the people killed 08:18 during the communist era, their estimates vary, 08:22 but they go as high as 100 million people. 08:24 That's even more than fascism. 08:26 But fascism also believed the same thing. 08:29 We're building a utopia here on earth, 08:33 therefore, anyone who's in the way 08:35 of getting to that utopia, 08:37 which will be good for everybody, 08:39 anyone who gets in the way of that should be eliminated. 08:44 And in fact, that's the moral thing to do 08:47 because we don't view 08:50 the right to life as an ultimate right, 08:53 we view it as balanced against the right of the state 08:56 and progress and all the other things 08:58 that these, sort of, regimes 09:02 and philosophies projected. 09:05 It's not... 09:07 What about here in the free world, 09:09 what happens when society, 09:11 you know, starts to embrace these kinds of ideas? 09:14 But let me ask this quick question. 09:16 This would be the rationale for genocide then, right? 09:21 It's the rationale... This pattern of thinking. 09:23 It's a rationale... Yeah, exactly. 09:25 It's the rationale for genocide, 09:27 but not just genocide. 09:29 It's the rationale for Gulags, 09:32 it's the rationale for secret police, 09:34 it's the rationale 09:35 for all of that restriction on people 09:38 because those people are the enemies of progress. 09:41 And if you're confident where progress is going 09:44 and you can identify people who stand in the way, 09:47 the idea is that those people's rights 09:50 must be sacrificed 09:51 for society's progress essentially. 09:54 How do we see it in western countries today? 09:56 Because we know that western countries 09:58 are becoming more secular 10:00 and that secularism has an impact 10:03 on that political process. 10:04 I think the way you see it most clearly 10:09 is in the disrespect for human life, 10:12 particularly at the early human life 10:14 and late human life. 10:16 As you know... 10:17 So you're talking there about abortion 10:20 and euthanasia then? 10:23 Yes, I am. Those two words. 10:25 Yeah. Exactly. 10:26 Well, we have to wrap things up. 10:27 But thank you so much for joining us. 10:29 James, it's been a real pleasure. 10:30 I could talk all day, 10:32 but we've got the rest of our lives together. 10:34 We've got to get on with this program. 10:36 But thank you very much 10:37 for taking the time and joining us. 10:39 Thank you, James. 10:41 You know, Shelley, 10:42 talking with James and being reminded of that time 10:46 when we were growing up in Thailand 10:48 and the slaughter 10:50 that was going on in the country 10:51 right next door. 10:52 Millions. 10:54 Millions of people slaughtered. 10:57 It's tempting for us 11:00 living in a relatively peaceful country 11:03 to imagine that our ideas about the creation, 11:07 you know, they don't have very much practical value. 11:12 But in reality, 11:13 this society that was founded on that principle 11:19 that it is self-evident that all men are created equal. 11:24 And as a consequence of that, 11:26 the human beings have unalienable rights. 11:29 That means it doesn't matter whether the person 11:32 is rich, poor, old, young, fit, ill, it doesn't matter. 11:37 Those rights cannot be taken away 11:39 from a human being. 11:40 What value there is in that. Yes. 11:43 What a blessing 11:44 there is in living in a society like that. 11:46 And the framework of our government 11:48 is really based on the laws of God, 11:50 and it's just something that... 11:52 It is. It's a human thing. 11:54 That means it's not perfect. 11:55 But it's a divine thing too. 11:57 It does, you know, bringing in those principles. 11:59 That's why I thank God every day 12:02 that I wake up in a free country. 12:05 Amen. |
Revised 2019-03-28