Participants:
Series Code: TCR
Program Code: TCR180012B
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00:03 Welcome back to The Creator Revealed.
00:06 We've been talking about Bible truths and science. 00:11 And how can a scientist truly believe in the Bible? 00:16 Well, we have a special guest with us for this segment 00:20 and he's going to address that. 00:21 Yes, we're meeting with Dr. Leonard Brand. 00:25 He has been a leader among scientists 00:30 at Loma Linda University, 00:32 which was a Christian University 00:34 in California for many, many years. 00:37 He's the author of the book, 00:38 Faith, Reason and Earth History. 00:40 So this is something that he has given 00:44 a lot of thought to. 00:45 And in addition to that, 00:46 he's the author of many peer reviewed science papers. 00:51 In fact, right now, 00:53 he's involved in some very interesting 00:56 scientific research that has to do with geology. 01:00 So let's meet Dr. Brand. 01:03 Hi, Dr. Brand. Welcome. 01:06 Well, it's good to talk to you this morning. 01:10 You know, I think what I want to do is, 01:12 I want to start out by asking you 01:16 about this belief that you have in the Bible. 01:19 I mean, do you really believe it? 01:21 Or you sort of giving it more, 01:24 you know, lip service, 01:26 but kind of redefining terms or something 01:29 so that it doesn't get in the way of the science 01:32 that you do? 01:35 No, I believe it very much 01:37 so and it doesn't get in the way. 01:40 Who knows more about geology, we or us? 01:44 Do we know more, or does God know more? 01:46 Well, it's clear to me that God knows more 01:48 and so I accept what the Bible says. 01:50 Okay, 01:52 and so when you are doing your science, 01:55 how exactly, I mean does the Bible 01:57 really make any difference 01:58 or is it sort of 02:00 more of a kind of moral guide in your life 02:02 and you just sort of believe by faith, 02:04 but does it impact your science really at all? 02:08 Well, the science that's impacted the most 02:11 by the Bible 02:12 is when we're studying ancient history, 02:15 whether it be biological history 02:16 or geological history. 02:19 That's when it matters a lot because the Bible tells us that 02:23 that the history of this earth is different 02:25 from what most scientists say, 02:27 and so that's what it makes a lot of difference. 02:30 And it gives us clues about how to look at the rocks, 02:35 how to understand the rocks, 02:37 clues that we would not have had otherwise. 02:40 So what specifically like... 02:42 Okay, you do geology research. 02:47 I mean, in what way 02:49 does the Bible inform that? 02:53 Okay, well, one of the geological deposits 02:57 that I am studying along with colleagues 02:59 like Arthur Chadwick 03:01 is a Moenkopi Formation in Utah, 03:04 and the standard explanation is that accumulated 03:07 over many millions of years. 03:10 Okay, well, the Bible tells me, no, it didn't happen that way. 03:13 It happened much faster 03:14 and so I asked questions when I look at the Moenkopi 03:19 that other people are not asking. 03:21 And when we do that, I noticed things, 03:24 then it's clear that other people are not noticing. 03:26 So that's really how it helps. 03:29 So do you want to give us some specifics? 03:31 I mean, what sort of things would you notice 03:33 that somebody else wouldn't really be seeing that? 03:37 Well, they would understand 03:40 that these layers in the Moenkopi 03:43 were deposited very slowly over millions of years 03:47 and when we look at them, 03:50 we see evidence that says, 03:52 no, this had to be happened very different, 03:54 much more catastrophically, 03:56 making individual deposits of sediment over large areas 04:03 all at once, which won't happen in the modern world 04:06 and so it's different 04:07 from how scientists would interpret things. 04:11 They look at how things happen in the modern world, 04:15 how streams deposit sediments, 04:18 how rivers deposit sediments and other processes. 04:22 And then they would look at the rocks 04:24 and assume that the rocks were formed in the same way 04:27 that we see processes happening today. 04:31 And, but that's an assumption. 04:34 When we look at the rocks with a biblical insight, 04:40 we see that evidence doesn't fit that. 04:42 The evidence says this was deposited 04:45 in not like it happens in the modern world, 04:48 but something very different on a catastrophic large scale. 04:51 Okay, so that actually brings up 04:55 really two other questions that I would have. 04:59 Number one, what you're saying then is that 05:04 whatever the process was that created these 05:08 really widespread layers of sedimentary rock, 05:13 it's different than what we observe going on today. 05:18 That's right, very different. 05:19 And this is not just in this one deposit 05:22 I'm talking about, 05:25 you find it all through the rocks 05:27 when we look at them carefully, 05:30 letting the Bible suggest to us new ways of interpreting. 05:33 Okay. 05:35 And then the second question then would be, 05:37 well, what is it in the Bible that that suggests 05:41 that there was something uniquely different 05:45 going on in the past? 05:47 Well, the Bible gives us a timeframe since creation 05:50 about few thousand years, 05:52 and it tells us about the global flood. 05:54 Okay. 05:55 Which was not just streams depositing sand and gravel. 06:00 It was a catastrophic, very large scale global process 06:03 and so we have to put the rocks 06:06 in that context when we're studying them. 06:08 And that's what gives us insights 06:10 to see them differently 06:12 from how other people see them. 06:16 Now, I know that you've mentioned 06:19 this kind of gradualistic process 06:22 where... 06:24 What we observe going on today. 06:26 And what I'm wondering is, 06:31 okay, I know that that's been a widespread view 06:34 among geologists for quite some time. 06:37 It's certainly the kind of geology 06:38 I was taught when I was a student. 06:40 But as other scientists are looking at these 06:45 and other rock layers and so on, 06:48 are they also coming to similar conclusions, 06:52 are they invoking some kind of catastrophes 06:55 or the majority of geologists sort of sticking 06:58 with this slow, gradualistic 07:04 kind of view of geology? 07:07 Well, let's look at a brief bit of history 07:09 about this concept that you're asking. 07:13 In, say the 1700s and early 1800s, 07:17 most geologists were catastrophists. 07:19 They saw things happening catastrophically. 07:23 A couple of geologists wrote books that change this 07:26 and the primary one was Lyell in the mid 1800s, 07:30 he wrote a set of two books 07:33 that redefined the field of geology 07:35 and actually began geology as an organized science. 07:39 And he didn't like this catastrophism 07:42 and so he defined geology 07:46 by saying that everything happens slowly and gradually, 07:49 there are no catastrophes. 07:51 And that was... 07:53 And that dominated geology for a century. 07:57 Everything happens very slowly and gradually. 08:00 There are no catastrophes. 08:02 In the early decades of the 1900s, 08:05 there was an independent thinking geologist 08:07 who challenged that with the deposit 08:09 he was studying in Washington State. 08:11 And he... 08:15 Even though the others ridiculed him 08:17 for several decades, 08:19 he continue collecting data and he finally showed that yes, 08:22 this deposit he was studying was formed by a catastrophe. 08:26 And so that finally woke up other geologists, 08:29 but it made only a small change. 08:32 They still see 08:34 geologic processes is happening, 08:36 generally, slowly and gradually, 08:39 but they do recognize that once in a while 08:41 there was some kind of a catastrophe. 08:43 But they will not accept. 08:45 So basically, what they're saying is, 08:48 there were several major catastrophes in the past, 08:52 some things that occurred on almost a global scale. 08:57 I don't think they'd say global, 08:59 this is much a local. 09:01 They will accept 09:03 some relatively local catastrophes. 09:07 But otherwise things have moved slowly and gradually. 09:10 Okay, so basically they're saying 09:12 a big catastrophe over here, 09:14 a big catastrophe over there, 09:16 but no universal or no global catastrophe. 09:21 They don't wanna put them all together into one big thing. 09:24 No, they don't, actually that some of the evidence 09:27 would fit that better but their assumptions, 09:32 their paradigm will not allow that. 09:34 Because that sounds, 09:36 you know, well, put it this way. 09:38 If you try to be so catastrophic 09:40 that it questions 09:42 the Darwinian evolutionary process, 09:45 the millions of years of evolution 09:46 and geologic process, then that's a problem. 09:49 They won't accept that. 09:51 Okay. 09:52 Well, thank you so very much for your time. 09:57 I guess there's probably one more question that I have. 10:02 And that really has to do with 10:03 what we've been talking about right now, 10:05 which is, would you say 10:07 that people who believe the Bible 10:11 are having influence 10:13 on the wider thinking about geology 10:17 or would you say 10:19 the people are simply being drawn by the data 10:23 more towards this catastrophic kind of view? 10:28 Well, when we publish papers in the scientific literature, 10:30 we have to be careful what we say. 10:32 We can't talk about a biblical worldview. 10:34 We can't talk about anything that we present the data 10:38 and talk about how it specifically applies 10:41 to what we're studying. 10:42 And so in that sense, 10:45 we're having influence here and there. 10:47 We're not changing the way geologists think, in general. 10:50 Okay. 10:52 Well, thank you so much for your time. Dr. Brand. 10:54 It's been a real pleasure and thanks for the work 10:56 that you're doing there at Loma Linda University. 10:59 Dr. Brand's office is quite close to my own. 11:02 And it's an honor to work on that campus 11:04 with these incredible people. 11:06 Thank you, Dr. Brand. 11:09 You're welcome. 11:10 You know, Shelley, it's a common idea 11:14 that scientists like Dr. Brand are a rarity. 11:18 But in reality, I encounter them all the time. 11:21 I believe the Bible, I do science. 11:23 Dr. Brand believes the Bible, 11:25 he does science, excellent science, 11:27 it gets published in that sort of rough 11:29 and tumble world of publishing science papers. 11:33 It's not a joke, 11:34 your ideas really have to be tested 11:37 very thoroughly 11:39 and, and yet, they're everywhere. 11:43 And more and more scientists I'm reading books 11:45 and reading excerpts from books, 11:47 that more and more scientists are coming over 11:51 that they're, you know, people who were atheists 11:54 are now believing 11:56 in the biblical account of creation. 11:59 If you can overcome this materialistic philosophy 12:03 that we tend to get indoctrinated with, 12:05 then it is absolutely true 12:07 that the creation does point you 12:10 towards the Creator. 12:11 And it really does reveal the Creator to us. 12:15 Well, science is exciting, 12:17 and we are just so thankful to have these wonderful people 12:21 come and share this good information with us 12:25 and that you can know. 12:26 It isn't contradictory to believe both the Bible 12:30 and have a scientific mind. 12:32 Please join us next time because we're gonna talk 12:35 about how you can share the creation. |
Revised 2019-04-25