The Creator Revealed

Believing The Bible and Believing Science

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript



Series Code: TCR

Program Code: TCR180012B

00:03 Welcome back to The Creator Revealed.
00:06 We've been talking about Bible truths and science.
00:11 And how can a scientist truly believe in the Bible?
00:16 Well, we have a special guest with us for this segment
00:20 and he's going to address that.
00:21 Yes, we're meeting with Dr. Leonard Brand.
00:25 He has been a leader among scientists
00:30 at Loma Linda University,
00:32 which was a Christian University
00:34 in California for many, many years.
00:37 He's the author of the book,
00:38 Faith, Reason and Earth History.
00:40 So this is something that he has given
00:44 a lot of thought to.
00:45 And in addition to that,
00:46 he's the author of many peer reviewed science papers.
00:51 In fact, right now,
00:53 he's involved in some very interesting
00:56 scientific research that has to do with geology.
01:00 So let's meet Dr. Brand.
01:03 Hi, Dr. Brand. Welcome.
01:06 Well, it's good to talk to you this morning.
01:10 You know, I think what I want to do is,
01:12 I want to start out by asking you
01:16 about this belief that you have in the Bible.
01:19 I mean, do you really believe it?
01:21 Or you sort of giving it more,
01:24 you know, lip service,
01:26 but kind of redefining terms or something
01:29 so that it doesn't get in the way of the science
01:32 that you do?
01:35 No, I believe it very much
01:37 so and it doesn't get in the way.
01:40 Who knows more about geology, we or us?
01:44 Do we know more, or does God know more?
01:46 Well, it's clear to me that God knows more
01:48 and so I accept what the Bible says.
01:50 Okay,
01:52 and so when you are doing your science,
01:55 how exactly, I mean does the Bible
01:57 really make any difference
01:58 or is it sort of
02:00 more of a kind of moral guide in your life
02:02 and you just sort of believe by faith,
02:04 but does it impact your science really at all?
02:08 Well, the science that's impacted the most
02:11 by the Bible
02:12 is when we're studying ancient history,
02:15 whether it be biological history
02:16 or geological history.
02:19 That's when it matters a lot because the Bible tells us that
02:23 that the history of this earth is different
02:25 from what most scientists say,
02:27 and so that's what it makes a lot of difference.
02:30 And it gives us clues about how to look at the rocks,
02:35 how to understand the rocks,
02:37 clues that we would not have had otherwise.
02:40 So what specifically like...
02:42 Okay, you do geology research.
02:47 I mean, in what way
02:49 does the Bible inform that?
02:53 Okay, well, one of the geological deposits
02:57 that I am studying along with colleagues
02:59 like Arthur Chadwick
03:01 is a Moenkopi Formation in Utah,
03:04 and the standard explanation is that accumulated
03:07 over many millions of years.
03:10 Okay, well, the Bible tells me, no, it didn't happen that way.
03:13 It happened much faster
03:14 and so I asked questions when I look at the Moenkopi
03:19 that other people are not asking.
03:21 And when we do that, I noticed things,
03:24 then it's clear that other people are not noticing.
03:26 So that's really how it helps.
03:29 So do you want to give us some specifics?
03:31 I mean, what sort of things would you notice
03:33 that somebody else wouldn't really be seeing that?
03:37 Well, they would understand
03:40 that these layers in the Moenkopi
03:43 were deposited very slowly over millions of years
03:47 and when we look at them,
03:50 we see evidence that says,
03:52 no, this had to be happened very different,
03:54 much more catastrophically,
03:56 making individual deposits of sediment over large areas
04:03 all at once, which won't happen in the modern world
04:06 and so it's different
04:07 from how scientists would interpret things.
04:11 They look at how things happen in the modern world,
04:15 how streams deposit sediments,
04:18 how rivers deposit sediments and other processes.
04:22 And then they would look at the rocks
04:24 and assume that the rocks were formed in the same way
04:27 that we see processes happening today.
04:31 And, but that's an assumption.
04:34 When we look at the rocks with a biblical insight,
04:40 we see that evidence doesn't fit that.
04:42 The evidence says this was deposited
04:45 in not like it happens in the modern world,
04:48 but something very different on a catastrophic large scale.
04:51 Okay, so that actually brings up
04:55 really two other questions that I would have.
04:59 Number one, what you're saying then is that
05:04 whatever the process was that created these
05:08 really widespread layers of sedimentary rock,
05:13 it's different than what we observe going on today.
05:18 That's right, very different.
05:19 And this is not just in this one deposit
05:22 I'm talking about,
05:25 you find it all through the rocks
05:27 when we look at them carefully,
05:30 letting the Bible suggest to us new ways of interpreting.
05:33 Okay.
05:35 And then the second question then would be,
05:37 well, what is it in the Bible that that suggests
05:41 that there was something uniquely different
05:45 going on in the past?
05:47 Well, the Bible gives us a timeframe since creation
05:50 about few thousand years,
05:52 and it tells us about the global flood.
05:54 Okay.
05:55 Which was not just streams depositing sand and gravel.
06:00 It was a catastrophic, very large scale global process
06:03 and so we have to put the rocks
06:06 in that context when we're studying them.
06:08 And that's what gives us insights
06:10 to see them differently
06:12 from how other people see them.
06:16 Now, I know that you've mentioned
06:19 this kind of gradualistic process
06:22 where...
06:24 What we observe going on today.
06:26 And what I'm wondering is,
06:31 okay, I know that that's been a widespread view
06:34 among geologists for quite some time.
06:37 It's certainly the kind of geology
06:38 I was taught when I was a student.
06:40 But as other scientists are looking at these
06:45 and other rock layers and so on,
06:48 are they also coming to similar conclusions,
06:52 are they invoking some kind of catastrophes
06:55 or the majority of geologists sort of sticking
06:58 with this slow, gradualistic
07:04 kind of view of geology?
07:07 Well, let's look at a brief bit of history
07:09 about this concept that you're asking.
07:13 In, say the 1700s and early 1800s,
07:17 most geologists were catastrophists.
07:19 They saw things happening catastrophically.
07:23 A couple of geologists wrote books that change this
07:26 and the primary one was Lyell in the mid 1800s,
07:30 he wrote a set of two books
07:33 that redefined the field of geology
07:35 and actually began geology as an organized science.
07:39 And he didn't like this catastrophism
07:42 and so he defined geology
07:46 by saying that everything happens slowly and gradually,
07:49 there are no catastrophes.
07:51 And that was...
07:53 And that dominated geology for a century.
07:57 Everything happens very slowly and gradually.
08:00 There are no catastrophes.
08:02 In the early decades of the 1900s,
08:05 there was an independent thinking geologist
08:07 who challenged that with the deposit
08:09 he was studying in Washington State.
08:11 And he...
08:15 Even though the others ridiculed him
08:17 for several decades,
08:19 he continue collecting data and he finally showed that yes,
08:22 this deposit he was studying was formed by a catastrophe.
08:26 And so that finally woke up other geologists,
08:29 but it made only a small change.
08:32 They still see
08:34 geologic processes is happening,
08:36 generally, slowly and gradually,
08:39 but they do recognize that once in a while
08:41 there was some kind of a catastrophe.
08:43 But they will not accept.
08:45 So basically, what they're saying is,
08:48 there were several major catastrophes in the past,
08:52 some things that occurred on almost a global scale.
08:57 I don't think they'd say global,
08:59 this is much a local.
09:01 They will accept
09:03 some relatively local catastrophes.
09:07 But otherwise things have moved slowly and gradually.
09:10 Okay, so basically they're saying
09:12 a big catastrophe over here,
09:14 a big catastrophe over there,
09:16 but no universal or no global catastrophe.
09:21 They don't wanna put them all together into one big thing.
09:24 No, they don't, actually that some of the evidence
09:27 would fit that better but their assumptions,
09:32 their paradigm will not allow that.
09:34 Because that sounds,
09:36 you know, well, put it this way.
09:38 If you try to be so catastrophic
09:40 that it questions
09:42 the Darwinian evolutionary process,
09:45 the millions of years of evolution
09:46 and geologic process, then that's a problem.
09:49 They won't accept that.
09:51 Okay.
09:52 Well, thank you so very much for your time.
09:57 I guess there's probably one more question that I have.
10:02 And that really has to do with
10:03 what we've been talking about right now,
10:05 which is, would you say
10:07 that people who believe the Bible
10:11 are having influence
10:13 on the wider thinking about geology
10:17 or would you say
10:19 the people are simply being drawn by the data
10:23 more towards this catastrophic kind of view?
10:28 Well, when we publish papers in the scientific literature,
10:30 we have to be careful what we say.
10:32 We can't talk about a biblical worldview.
10:34 We can't talk about anything that we present the data
10:38 and talk about how it specifically applies
10:41 to what we're studying.
10:42 And so in that sense,
10:45 we're having influence here and there.
10:47 We're not changing the way geologists think, in general.
10:50 Okay.
10:52 Well, thank you so much for your time. Dr. Brand.
10:54 It's been a real pleasure and thanks for the work
10:56 that you're doing there at Loma Linda University.
10:59 Dr. Brand's office is quite close to my own.
11:02 And it's an honor to work on that campus
11:04 with these incredible people.
11:06 Thank you, Dr. Brand.
11:09 You're welcome.
11:10 You know, Shelley, it's a common idea
11:14 that scientists like Dr. Brand are a rarity.
11:18 But in reality, I encounter them all the time.
11:21 I believe the Bible, I do science.
11:23 Dr. Brand believes the Bible,
11:25 he does science, excellent science,
11:27 it gets published in that sort of rough
11:29 and tumble world of publishing science papers.
11:33 It's not a joke,
11:34 your ideas really have to be tested
11:37 very thoroughly
11:39 and, and yet, they're everywhere.
11:43 And more and more scientists I'm reading books
11:45 and reading excerpts from books,
11:47 that more and more scientists are coming over
11:51 that they're, you know, people who were atheists
11:54 are now believing
11:56 in the biblical account of creation.
11:59 If you can overcome this materialistic philosophy
12:03 that we tend to get indoctrinated with,
12:05 then it is absolutely true
12:07 that the creation does point you
12:10 towards the Creator.
12:11 And it really does reveal the Creator to us.
12:15 Well, science is exciting,
12:17 and we are just so thankful to have these wonderful people
12:21 come and share this good information with us
12:25 and that you can know.
12:26 It isn't contradictory to believe both the Bible
12:30 and have a scientific mind.
12:32 Please join us next time because we're gonna talk
12:35 about how you can share the creation.


Revised 2019-04-25