Participants:
Series Code: TCR
Program Code: TCR180013B
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00:03 Welcome back to the Creator Revealed.
00:05 We're talking today about how to share your belief 00:09 and God as our Creator. 00:11 And we have a special guest 00:13 whom I just love, Dr. Tom Shepherd. 00:15 Yes. 00:16 Tom Shepherd and I go back many years. 00:19 We taught together in Nebraska 00:22 and now he teaches 00:24 in the Adventist Theological Seminary 00:26 at Andrews University in Michigan. 00:30 I bet he has on one of his signature ties today. 00:33 I bet he does as well. 00:35 You might be surprised by the style, 00:37 but it could be anything. 00:39 So welcome, welcome, Dr. Shepherd. 00:42 Thank you so much for joining us. 00:45 So we've been talking 00:46 about how to share this Doctrine of Creation 00:51 with other people, 00:53 people who don't already believe. 00:55 Now, you are a theologian and you are a pastor. 00:59 I know you have a pastor's heart. 01:01 And so I'm wondering from your perspective. 01:05 Obviously, I've just talked about it 01:07 from the perspective of a scientist. 01:09 But from the perspective of a pastor, 01:12 what are the most effective ways 01:16 of sharing the creation? 01:18 And what might be some things 01:20 that we would like to avoid doing, 01:23 if we want to be effective? 01:26 Okay. 01:27 The first thing is you never win an argument. 01:31 So it's never good to argue with people about creation. 01:36 If they don't believe, 01:38 it's not good to push it on them. 01:42 I believe that sharing creation 01:44 is actually part of sharing the gospel. 01:46 So, in fact, 01:48 that's a very natural place to begin 01:50 in sharing the gospel 01:52 because it's the beginning 01:54 of all life on this planet, in our universe. 01:58 So it depends on the situation in which I would find myself 02:02 or who I would be with, 02:04 exactly how I would approach this. 02:06 But if I gave a scenario where I was travelling. 02:09 This next week I'll be travelling 02:11 with students to Denver for professional meetings, 02:14 and maybe I'll be sitting to next to somebody. 02:18 My way of sharing the gospel with people 02:20 starts with what I call, tagging. 02:22 It's not actually from me, it's... 02:24 I heard this from somebody else. 02:27 When we were little kids, we played tag, 02:29 and it was tag when you're hit. 02:31 So in sharing the gospel in this way, 02:34 and just having a normal conversation 02:36 with somebody about who you are, 02:38 what you do, that kind of thing. 02:40 You share something 02:41 that is part of your spiritual life. 02:44 For me, it's fairly easy, I tell you, I'm a teacher, 02:46 and they say, "Oh, what do you teach?" 02:48 And I say, "Well, I teach the New Testament 02:50 in the Bible at a seminary." 02:52 I have just tagged them. 02:53 I've just told them, 02:55 "I'm a spiritual person, and does that interest you?" 02:59 So if they tag me back and they say, 03:01 "Oh, you teach New Testament, that's really interesting." 03:04 They have just said, 03:06 "I'm also spiritual person and I'd like to talk." 03:09 Now if they say, "Oh, do you play golf too?" 03:13 Then I may know 03:15 that they may not want to talk about spiritual things. 03:18 And I might tag them again, 03:19 but I'm not going to push them on that. 03:21 But let's suppose that somebody 03:22 has, you know showed an interest, 03:24 and so it comes up the subject of creation. 03:30 Of course, there are many people 03:31 who are like unbelievers, a number of unbelievers, 03:34 and how do you reach out to them? 03:36 I think one of the best ways is to share with them 03:40 the benefits of believing in creation. 03:43 Things like, 03:45 God is watching over us, God is caring for us, 03:48 that there's a clear beginning, 03:50 so there's a clear end where we're headed, 03:53 and it's going to be glorious according to the Bible. 03:56 I also believe 03:57 that sharing people 03:59 the idea of the image of God, 04:01 that we are made in His image 04:02 in the holistic anthropology in the Bible. 04:05 I mean, in simple terms, to share with people, 04:09 shares with them the benefits 04:10 of this great Doctrine of Creation. 04:14 You know, that's really interesting 04:16 because it's interesting to me to see this. 04:19 That's a very clever technique, 04:20 this tagging, tagging technique. 04:23 But I was also, you know, I was here nodding and agreeing 04:28 because of course, 04:30 I think that we do agree on a number of these things 04:33 and especially, especially on this point 04:36 of presenting the beauty of what's there, 04:39 the attractiveness of it. 04:40 Yeah. 04:42 If we make Christianity 04:43 and the idea of creation unattractive, 04:45 of course, people aren't going to want to do it. 04:47 Now I actually have another question, 04:50 it's related. 04:52 You're going to a professional meeting next week, 04:56 and 04:59 for better or for worse, 05:01 I know that there are a lot of theologians 05:05 who have quite unbiblical ideas 05:11 about the creation. 05:13 So the question that I have is, 05:17 how do you deal with people like that? 05:19 They would be spiritual people already, 05:22 so how do you deal with them? 05:25 Okay. 05:26 Of course, 05:27 I'm not going to argue with them. 05:29 If they want to share, 05:31 then I would present my position 05:33 on the creation scripture as a historical event. 05:37 Now among theologians, 05:38 the question of the historicity of the first 11 chapters 05:41 of the Book of Genesis, it's a big, a big issue 05:44 and a big debate that they go over. 05:49 But I would share 05:51 maybe some aspects of the creation story 05:55 that point towards it being not just sort of poetry, 05:59 but it being linked into history. 06:02 The Sabbath is actually one of those characteristics. 06:06 The Sabbath command 06:07 enshrines that whole idea of the creation, 06:10 and in six days 06:11 God made the heaven and the earth. 06:12 So we probably as professionals 06:16 would talk about some aspects of the text 06:18 that would go beyond 06:20 what, you know, I might share 06:21 if I was on an airplane sitting next to... 06:23 You know, just somebody 06:25 who hadn't had that kind of experience before. 06:27 What about given your expertise in the New Testament? 06:31 I think you might heard 06:32 my discussions earlier with Shelley, 06:35 about, you know, she says, 06:37 "I was a New Testament Christian." 06:42 I grew up in a New Testament church. 06:43 In a New Testament church. 06:44 So you are a professor of New Testament 06:49 there in the seminary. 06:53 Is the creation there? 06:56 Is there a starting point 06:58 that you might choose in the New Testament 07:01 instead of arguing about those first 11 chapters of Genesis 07:06 back in the Old Testament, of course? 07:08 Sure, absolutely. 07:10 The Creation doctrine is found throughout the New Testament. 07:16 I have a presentation that I gave, 07:18 if you have time I can share the whole thing, 07:20 it takes probably about at least half-an-hour 07:22 or could go on, on and on. 07:24 I'll have to work on that one day. 07:25 I'm sure it's fabulous. 07:27 Yeah, throughout many and many books 07:29 of the New Testament, 07:31 creation is this foundational kind of concept. 07:33 Let me share one 07:34 that's in the Book of Matthew Chapter 19, 07:38 Pharisees were asking Jesus, 07:40 whether it's all right to divorce. 07:42 And Jesus was very much in favor of staying married 07:46 and not getting divorced. 07:48 And the basis of his argument 07:49 was that God made male and female, and He... 07:53 The man leaves his father, his mother, 07:54 and is joined to his wife. 07:56 So Jesus took 07:57 the stories of creation as historical events, 08:01 because if it's not historical, His argument fails. 08:06 And so Matthew 19 is one of those very clear indications 08:10 that in the New Testament, 08:12 it accepts the historicity of those creation accounts. 08:16 And there's many examples like this 08:19 throughout the New Testament 08:20 that point in the same direction. 08:22 You know, one of the things that really impressed me 08:25 when I was reading through the Bible, 08:27 and I do this every now and again 08:29 is where the creation shows up. 08:32 And one of... 08:33 You know, 08:35 because I'm not really a theologian or anything, 08:38 I like those action books. 08:41 And the Book of Acts is full of all of these things, 08:45 and I was shocked to note 08:48 how often the creation is discussed there. 08:51 Yes. 08:52 It's very, very interesting where it shows up. 08:56 And, you know, when you consider... 08:58 I'm sorry, I was just going to say, 08:59 if you consider the Book of Romans, 09:01 and the whole idea of the fall and the first Adam. 09:06 I mean, the whole plan of salvation 09:08 is built around the story of creation. 09:11 Yes. 09:12 I mean, Romans is filled with the idea of creation 09:14 and the Book of Acts, as Tim had stated also. 09:19 When Paul goes and talks to the Greek philosophers in... 09:23 On Mars Hill, then he refers to creation. 09:26 And that's one of the basic parts 09:28 of his argument. 09:30 Missionaries actually find it useful 09:32 when they are going to traditional cultures 09:34 to start with the story of creation as part 09:37 of sharing the gospel because it's so foundational 09:41 that God created the world, the world went wrong, 09:45 God restores the world and the gospel. 09:47 If you don't have the basis in creation and the fall, 09:50 you don't have a reason 09:51 for the redemption that's found in Christ. 09:53 So it's all interlinked together, 09:56 these ideas of creation in scripture, 09:58 and sharing with them. 09:59 Yeah. 10:01 It's one of these things that's really very impressive 10:03 about the scriptures. 10:05 The way... 10:06 These books had many different authors 10:09 but the same inspiration and everything interlinks 10:12 in a very clear and logical way. 10:15 There isn't a different gospel in the Old Testament 10:17 than there is in New Testament. 10:19 Absolutely. 10:20 You're right. 10:21 We've always been saved by grace through faith. 10:23 Exactly. 10:25 Well, Dr. Shepherd, I want to thank you so much 10:27 for joining us. 10:29 It's been a real pleasure to see you again. 10:32 Amen! 10:34 Always good to see you, Tim and Shelley. 10:36 Give your sweetheart a hug from me. 10:40 Thank you very much. 10:41 All right. God bless. 10:43 You know, when we were talking there 10:45 about the Book of Acts, 10:46 and Paul on Mars Hill 10:48 or sometimes it's called the Areopagus, 10:50 there in Athens. 10:52 It reminds me of the time when I was with a friend, 10:55 and we were walking through Athens, 10:58 and climbed up the hill towards the acropolis there, 11:01 and we saw this big plate, bronze plate 11:06 and we started reading it, it was in Greek. 11:09 And lo and behold, it was the story, 11:12 it was the story that's laid out there, 11:15 the sermon that was given by Paul. 11:18 It was so impressive. 11:19 And right there and then, that was probably a time 11:23 when I was so profoundly struck by the fact 11:26 that he actually starts of his sermon 11:28 with all of these philosophers with... 11:31 "Hey, I'm going to introduce you 11:33 to the unknowing God, you know who He is?" 11:35 This is the creator God. 11:37 Amen. Yeah. 11:39 So then he built everything else of that. 11:40 It's quite an impressive, impressive thing. 11:44 Amen. 11:46 Again, I always go back to the idea that God had... 11:50 Christ was the lamb slain 11:53 before the foundation of the world. 11:55 So God has had a plan in mind. 11:58 He created a perfect creation, but in His foreknowledge, 12:02 He knew what was going to happen 12:04 and the sacrifice He had to make to save us. 12:07 And this is the beautiful story. 12:09 That's the gospel. 12:10 The beautiful reality 12:12 that we as Christians have to share with the world. 12:15 Amen. Amen. 12:16 And we hope 12:18 that this series has provided you 12:20 a foundation 12:22 and an understanding 12:23 that you'll get out 12:24 and share Jesus today. |
Revised 2019-05-06