Participants:
Series Code: TDYL
Program Code: TDYL250012A
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00:02 I want to spend my life,
00:14 I want to spend my life, 00:35 I want to spend my life, bending broken, 00:46 I want to spend my life. 01:05 Hello and welcome to another 3ABN Today Live. 01:08 Well, thank you for joining us as you do each and every day. 01:11 I'm privileged to be here with my beautiful wife, Yvonne. 01:14 Oh, I'm so happy to be here with you. 01:15 Well, you've been gone two or three days and I missed you. 01:17 I know. 01:18 Did you know that? 01:18 I know, I missed you too. 01:22 And so, you were in the ministry. 01:24 I was. 01:28 Oh, that's great. 01:29 We're going to hear about that sometime. 01:31 Not tonight, but we're going to hear about that another time. 01:33 So, we're here with some of our favorite people in all the 01:37 world. 01:40 we want to start with Mike. 01:42 And Michael, you've been coming here... 01:44 Long time. 01:45 Okay, that's a good way to say it, a long time. 01:48 Pastor Kelly, you've been coming here. 01:50 Yep, blessed. 01:51 Yeah, and so, we're glad that you're here. 01:54 I want you to introduce our other guests tonight who are 01:58 now our brothers and sisters. 01:59 That's right. 02:00 They always have been. 02:01 We just got to meet them tonight. 02:02 Yeah. 02:03 You know, we got Daniel and Kirsten, and so... 02:07 Sure. 02:08 I want to just thank you guys again, because honestly, 15 02:11 years ago when we were just starting out, you know, nobody 02:14 wanted to talk about this topic or touch it. 02:16 And you know what, Yvonne? 02:17 You were praying over us. 02:19 You just recorded our testimonies, and you said, I 02:21 believe that the Holy Spirit has more to say on this topic. 02:25 And through you and through 3ABN, we've done, I bet, at 02:29 least 100 different 30-minute programs and interviews. 02:32 Praise the Lord. 02:32 Yeah. 02:38 there and our message out there. 02:40 And because of your credibility, it's really opened 02:43 a lot of doors that otherwise would not have been opened for 02:45 us. 02:46 And what topic is it? 02:47 Praise the Lord. 02:47 It's about... 02:48 For our audience today. 02:49 Yeah, absolutely. 02:50 Thank you. 02:50 Sexual integrity. 02:51 And we started off, you know, basically talking about the ex 02:55 -LGBT message, because all of my colleagues and I had come 02:59 from LGBT lives. 03:01 I was transgender until I was 20, and then from 20 to 40, I 03:05 was in the gay culture, sexually addicted, you know, 03:08 all that kind of stuff. 03:09 So, you know, of course, in a church setting, that's really a 03:12 little off-putting. 03:13 But our ministry, I believe, is really vital because what we do 03:18 is we talk about sexuality in a way that's biblical, that's 03:22 redemptive, and in a way that I believe is kind of the elephant 03:26 in the room that really nobody is comfortable to talk about. 03:28 So we begin those conversations, you know, in 03:31 churches, schools, academies, university, any way that we're 03:35 invited. 03:36 Even with children, because you did a program for us with 03:39 children. 03:40 Thank you. 03:41 I was on the phone with you. 03:43 We were just catching up, and you're like, okay, okay, yeah, 03:46 we need a program on this, and boom, then it happens. 03:49 Praise the Lord. 03:50 Be real, be true, be you. 03:51 Be you. 03:52 That's right. 03:52 Amen. 03:56 ministries to... 03:57 To coming together ministries. 03:59 And the reason why is coming out ministries is really 04:02 connected to the LGBT thing. 04:04 And our ministry thought that just like the words that we 04:07 heard in Christianity is that homosexuality was something of 04:10 its own. 04:15 I was never gay. 04:16 But everything that you said is really victory over sin and 04:19 righteousness by faith. 04:20 So not only were their eyes open, but our eyes were, too. 04:23 And we realized that we weren't so separate from, you know, the 04:26 issues and that, you know, we were really all coming 04:29 together. 04:30 And again, you know, Ron, you were the one that basically 04:33 spearheaded that meeting. 04:34 And we decided, okay, it's time to change the ministry name. 04:37 And Hector, that's why we invited you to be with us 04:40 tonight. 04:43 identity. 04:44 And of course, you know, Daniel and Kirsten, you know, they're 04:48 this beautiful, young, vibrant, they're the new generation, you 04:52 know. 04:55 picking up the pieces and moving us forward. 04:58 So it's really a joy to have them with us as well. 05:01 That's great. 05:02 Go ahead. 05:05 here with us and the stories that you have of victory. 05:10 That's really key. 05:11 We love your ministry because you look at, you know, at 05:15 victory over sin. 05:17 And like you said, it's not just homosexuality. 05:20 It's just it's sin across the board because our default 05:23 setting is sin. 05:25 Right. 05:30 for the first time, I'm assuming when you came out and 05:34 said, you know, God can give us victory over any sin in our 05:39 life, including LGBTQ, whatever it is, that 100 percent of 05:44 every Christian, every Adventist church member said, 05:47 praise the Lord, we're behind you. 05:49 How am I doing? 05:51 We were hoping that it would be that way. 05:53 But unfortunately, there's there's still these these 05:57 divisions that are still in the church culture. 05:59 And one of the original ones was God hates gays. 06:03 Gays can't change. 06:04 And, you know, therefore we're reprobates and there's no hope 06:06 for us. 06:10 church culture because nobody had the answer. 06:12 And I thought, OK, I guess I'm doomed. 06:14 Now coming back into church culture, that is still alive 06:18 and well, unfortunately, and it is fading some. 06:20 There's a lot of cultural differences that Daniel, you 06:23 know, and Hector, you can also address. 06:26 But now what's happening is it's the pendulum has swung the 06:29 other way. 06:31 And because gays can't can't change, that's why God loves 06:34 them. 06:35 And so it's hate speech. 06:36 If you tell someone that they can change. 06:38 And so our ministry has been attacked from all sides and 06:42 from inside the church, from outside the church. 06:45 And yeah, God has really sustained us. 06:48 And yeah, it's been many, many different trials and 06:52 temptations. 06:56 how you got involved in this because you have passed church 07:00 and, you know, you know, this very controversial subject. 07:04 So what got you on board? 07:05 What got me involved was the awareness that there were 07:08 problems that weren't being addressed. 07:10 And when I watched the presentations by what was then 07:13 coming out ministries, this is the gospel in action. 07:16 I mean, these people are loving. 07:18 They're not condemning. 07:19 They are willing to address the issues. 07:21 They're tasteful. 07:23 And their testimonies are the tip of the spear for the 07:26 gospel, I think, in a sexualized culture. 07:28 And as I watch those testimonies and listen to them, 07:31 it's like, like 3ABN. 07:33 Let me give them a little bit of a platform. 07:35 Let me encourage them. 07:36 And besides, you've got all these things to get talked 07:39 about in secret that nobody wants to talk about. 07:42 And there's just a lot of people waiting for somebody to 07:44 say, let's talk about this. 07:47 And watching their persons, seeing their victories. 07:51 It's like, isn't this the church's job to help people 07:53 find freedom? 07:55 So, yeah, we started several years ago when they had Journey 07:58 Interrupted, which was one of their first documentary-type 08:00 films. 08:01 We debuted it in the Village Church, and it was the 08:05 beginning of a wonderful journey. 08:07 And I'm just so proud of this organization, how they can 08:11 endure a lot of suffering, like Michael said, comes from one 08:15 side in one phase, comes from another side in another phase. 08:18 But they're staying true, staying sweet, staying 08:21 beautiful. 08:22 You know what's interesting, I didn't realize until just now, 08:25 but Ron, you're the other half that, you know, you believed in 08:28 us. 08:33 with your reaction as well as with your reaction, because you 08:36 did believe in it, and you moved this issue forward in 08:39 your church. 08:43 for our ministry. 08:44 We wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for not only your 08:47 leadership, but I think also your insight to allow us to 08:50 have access to your pulpit, you know, which also goes around 08:53 the world, just like your ministry. 08:55 So it's like a little grateful club right now for me. 08:58 Well, it's a beautiful thing to be a part of something God is 09:00 doing. 09:02 And, you know, if God's doing it, you know it's going to be 09:05 resisted somewhere, but just like one of the plaques you 09:09 have in your foyer here called basically Keep On It, Your Life 09:12 Task out there. 09:12 I just took a picture of it. 09:14 If it's worth doing, it'll be resisted, but keep on. 09:18 So we've actually had a conference that we've been 09:21 doing. 09:24 you, you know, Pastor Kelly. 09:26 It has, I think it has built the momentum of what I've 09:30 always wanted our ministry to be, not only to have an office, 09:33 which we do now in Berrien Springs, Michigan, which that's 09:36 such a huge hallelujah. 09:38 I remember when this lady wanted to buy the building, we 09:42 said, we don't have any money, and she goes all over the place 09:44 and I go, oh great, we still don't have any money, and 09:47 within three months we had raised the money to actually 09:51 purchase this building and now we have, you know, salaries and 09:55 full -time people and a building and I mean, it's 09:59 really been amazing, you know, how God has really established 10:02 us and I think moved us into the next generation. 10:05 Well, he's building a team and it's multi-generational and 10:08 that only expands the power of the witness. 10:11 Amen. 10:13 Tell us a bit of your story, Daniel and Kirsten, because you 10:17 guys have a powerful testimony. 10:20 Let's start with you, Kirsten. 10:22 Yeah, so I was born and raised in the Adventist Church and I 10:28 also attended an Adventist school from kindergarten to 10:33 10th grade. 10:34 I was raised by a single mother, but my dad, he would be 10:42 showing his love as much as he could, so he would like call 10:48 and because my parents were separated, I would go with my 10:52 dad over the weekend, but I would always remember when I 10:57 would be dropped off at my mother's that I would feel this 11:01 deep sadness. 11:02 So as a little girl, six, seven years old. 11:05 Leaving your dad to go back to your mom? 11:07 Correct, yes. 11:09 And it felt like empty, like I wanted my parents to be 11:13 together, I wanted them, you know, that happy, perfect home 11:19 of having my parents both together. 11:23 But then fast forward that longiness of wanting to be 11:30 attached more with my father, the affirmation and attention, 11:35 and I was projecting that in romantic relationships. 11:40 So then once I was in college, those were my deep dark years. 11:47 So I did fall into pre-marital sex, and I never thought I 11:53 would find myself in that because I knew better. 11:57 I was raised in the church, school, that I should preserve 12:01 that special gift that God ordains in marriage. 12:05 And in those relationships is where I was getting, I guess, 12:10 that temporal feeling of affirmation, of attention, and 12:15 attention seeking of what I was missing with my father. 12:20 But it was through God's divine power that he severed that 12:26 relationship and that's where I began my wilderness experience. 12:31 And it was hard, you know, after a breakup, but that's 12:37 where I was finally able to say, wow, I'm single, I don't 12:41 need a man, but is that satisfaction when you have a 12:46 deep loving relationship with God that he does fill you, he 12:52 gives you purpose, he gives you life, and he gives you peace 12:55 that surpasses all understanding. 12:57 And I did find my identity in him. 13:02 So that was amazing. 13:06 And I remember I told, as I go, as a goal for myself, I said I 13:13 wouldn't court anyone until 2024, because for eight years 13:18 of my life, I was engaging in sexual activity. 13:23 And... 13:26 For the viewers to understand, not like you were hooking up or 13:29 anything, but you were in a committed relationship as a 13:33 Christian woman and still found yourself compromised. 13:37 Correct. 13:38 Yeah. 13:43 I'm happy with my friends, my family, my career, then that's 13:47 where then now my husband, that's how we were connecting. 13:55 Yes. 13:57 There's so many parts to their story, and I know you don't 14:00 have time, but what I really love is how you met Daniel and 14:04 he inspired you, you know, for purity, but you weren't even 14:08 friends, you just were acquaintances, and then years 14:11 later, something different happened. 14:12 Can you just talk about the Goliath wall? 14:14 Because I just love that story. 14:16 Yes. 14:21 University, and I moved out of state to attend, and I didn't 14:26 know anyone, and this was before my wilderness 14:30 experience, but it was also Delora, like, speaking to me, 14:35 like, you have to let this relationship go. 14:39 we were in the same class because we were studying for 14:42 social work, and there was this artist there on campus, and I 14:48 was like, wow, I want to attend this concert, but I was always 14:53 labeled as a shy, quiet girl, and I guess hourly is like good 14:57 girl, like an angel, but then, you know, my deep sins was 15:05 engaging in sexual activity, but so I went to this concert 15:10 and I didn't know anyone, and then I see Daniel, and I just 15:17 knew him because we had classes together, but he says that he 15:23 never saw me. 15:26 I was really focused on in my school, to be honest. 15:29 So I saw her there. 15:30 It was actually the day after my birthday in 2019 and I felt 15:35 impressed to share with her my testimony, which we can 15:37 probably get into the details of how God called me out of the 15:41 homosexual lifestyle, as well as other sins that the devil 15:45 really trapped me in and the temporary pleasures of the 15:48 world as well. 15:50 And so I shared with her my testimony and it was a very 15:54 good time. 15:59 people and they had like lottery tickets or something to 16:03 win a jacket. 16:04 And as I was sharing my testimony, and as I was sharing 16:08 my testimony, they called my name to win the jacket and I 16:12 felt like that was God like affirming like you're supposed 16:15 to be doing this right now and I'm like, okay, God. 16:18 And I wasn't interested in her then and there. 16:20 I was just wanting to share my testimony. 16:23 And at the end of that concert, I was looking into her eyes and 16:26 I found myself drawn to her and this thought crossed my mind 16:30 and it was like, this is gonna be your future wife. 16:33 And I rebuked that thought because I was not ready to 16:36 enter into a relationship. 16:38 I had literally just left the homosexual lifestyle and I was 16:42 just trying to follow what God had in store for me. 16:45 And he called me to a 12 step program to work on the lust 16:51 addiction. 16:52 And he also led me to a men's group as well in a church in 16:56 the Adventist Church. 16:58 And I started to feel loved and embraced by other men, other 17:02 godly men. 17:03 And actually, I was pretty resistant to join the group. 17:06 There was like some stereotypes about masculinity that was a 17:10 turn off to me. 17:11 And I remember I was cleaning the dishes and telling God how 17:14 I didn't want to join this men's group. 17:16 And I'm like, they just want to like chop wood and just be so 17:20 like something that I felt like I wasn't. 17:23 And I was complaining to the Lord. 17:25 And then the Holy Spirit lovingly, gently, but directly 17:28 humbled me and was like, you know, the men that are there, 17:32 they're not perfect. 17:33 They're not perfect. 17:35 But, you know, you're not a perfect man either. 17:37 And I just felt like he checked me and encouraged me to just 17:42 give it a try. 17:43 And through those connections and intimacy, I was learning to 17:47 be secure with myself because I had a lot of insecurities about 17:51 myself. 17:52 I had a lot of lies that I believed. 17:54 I thought that everything about me was because I was gay. 17:56 So I thought, you know, I'm intelligent because I'm gay. 17:59 I can communicate well because I'm gay. 18:00 I'm attractive because I'm gay. 18:02 And I don't honestly don't even know where I learned those 18:05 things from. 18:05 That's the mantra. 18:07 You know, everything that you do is gay. 18:09 So, oh, if you notice the pretty birds in the sky, oh, 18:11 that's gay. 18:14 oh, that's gay. 18:15 So you're so in... 18:17 What's the word for it? 18:18 It's in you. 18:19 It's a part of you. 18:21 So everything that you are is because you're gay. 18:23 So it's really difficult, I think, to break that, that 18:26 whole cycle. 18:27 And God was bringing you on that journey as well. 18:30 But let's get back to Kirsten for a second, because what was 18:34 really powerful is that they never saw each other again for 18:37 at least a year or two that I know of. 18:38 About three and a half years, yes. 18:41 And see, this is what blows my mind is Kirsten, that inspired 18:45 you. 18:48 with Daniel? 18:48 Yes. 18:49 So then I approach him. 18:52 I say, hey, my name is Kirsten. 18:54 Do you remember me? 18:55 We have classes together. 18:57 He said no, but then we just continued to go to the concert. 19:02 And he did share with me that he did leave his relationship. 19:07 And that inspired me because I was thinking if the Lord really 19:14 was able to, you know, empower him and he was able through his 19:19 freedom of choice, like leave that relationship behind, then 19:23 I can also. 19:25 And that so that was like a wake up call for me. 19:29 And yeah, like after that concert, like we didn't see 19:34 each other until three years. 19:36 And wasn't it wasn't that when you broke it off with the guy 19:39 you were seeing and you determined that you weren't 19:41 going to date? 19:42 No, but that was a seed that the Lord was. 19:44 OK. 19:45 Yeah. 19:45 Putting in me. 19:47 Yeah. 19:54 you didn't get. 19:56 You were seeking it from relationships that you didn't 19:58 get from your dad. 20:00 And I think it's really important for people. 20:03 This is an aside, but fathers are so important and the role 20:08 that fathers play in their children's lives is it cannot 20:12 be underestimated. 20:15 A godly man being a good dad is just it can't be 20:19 underestimated. 20:20 So you were looking for that. 20:22 Daniel, was your dad, did you have an attachment issue with 20:25 your dad? 20:26 I would say so. 20:27 I looked up to him and I also didn't feel like I could relate 20:32 to him in ways. 20:33 So my father is now retired, but he was in the military. 20:38 And so also being Hispanic, living in the South with a lot 20:42 of, I guess, stereotypical expectations of young boys and 20:46 men, especially when I was growing up. 20:48 So being into sports, you know, talking about girls, that sort 20:54 of thing, being more rough around the edges, play 20:56 fighting, all of that. 20:57 I just didn't feel like I could relate to that. 21:00 And at times my family would get on to me about my 21:03 mannerisms, the way that I would walk, the way that I 21:06 would talk. 21:09 about me was off, that it wasn't acceptable. 21:12 So that's, I think, where the root of the insecurity was 21:15 coming from. 21:16 And not having my father there in the environment I was in, 21:20 the examples of other men were not very positive. 21:24 From my perspective as a young boy, it just was a lot of the 21:30 men would objectify women, or I just felt too emotional as a 21:35 kid. 21:39 emotions. 21:40 And it just made me feel like I could relate more to the woman. 21:43 So I grew up with a mom, a sister, my grandmother, aunts. 21:48 So there was a lot of feminine energy, if you will, in my 21:51 family. 21:55 from, you know, touching more so with my mom. 21:59 And we see that there's a lot of homosexual men and as well 22:02 as women that they can detach from their same sex parent, 22:06 because that is part of a developmental milestone that a 22:10 lot of children need. 22:11 I'm not saying that's the reason why people are gay, but 22:13 that seems to be a common theme in our identity to development 22:17 that gets missed with those that experience LGBTQ 22:22 identification and feelings. 22:23 So. 22:24 So at what point did the switch go off for you two or on? 22:33 So I would say in GYC 2022, so it would have been about three 22:38 years and a half or so where I was invited to speak and share 22:42 my testimony with coming out ministries. 22:44 Well, can we tell that part a little bit? 22:46 Yeah, please. 22:49 Oh, he was actually in my house. 22:51 And I was asked to speak to these boys about pornography 22:54 addiction. 22:55 And Daniel wouldn't even look at me, speak to me, nothing to 22:58 me. 23:01 I'm like, OK, you know, so he never spoke to me ever. 23:04 But I knew you from 15 until you called me on that one day 23:08 that was in what, 2022? 23:11 Around there. 23:11 Yeah. 23:12 Yeah. 23:14 Yeah. 23:17 because I met Michael when I was 15. 23:19 I mean, I didn't know what to say. 23:21 But at this point in my life, the Lord was calling me to 23:23 share my testimony more publicly. 23:25 At first, I was doing more one on one as the Holy Spirit 23:27 impressed me. 23:28 And then my pastor, my church mentioned that they were going 23:33 to have sharing their testimony night. 23:35 And so I felt impressed that I needed to share, but I just 23:39 waited. 23:40 I don't know. 23:42 And I don't want I don't know what to say. 23:45 So I waited until like, I think Sunday. 23:48 And you need a confirmation by Monday. 23:50 And I'm like, surely all the spots have been taken. 23:52 So when I called my pastor, he said there was one spot left. 23:56 So I knew, OK, all right, Lord, you want me to share. 24:01 So I felt like I needed support. 24:03 And I don't hear a lot of people talk about these types 24:05 of vulnerable stories or they get really general and people 24:09 really don't know what they went through. 24:12 And so I called up Michael Carducci and I asked him, I 24:16 said, So can God speak to someone who's actively in the 24:20 homosexual lifestyle? 24:22 Such a great question. 24:24 I said, of course, you know, that's how God spoke to me. 24:26 And so then you proceeded to tell me your story. 24:28 You were already living on your own, you know, after you've 24:32 been living with your boyfriend and in student housing at this 24:35 Christian university. 24:36 I still don't understand that one, but it's an amazing part 24:39 of your story. 24:43 testimony because you had a trip in that area already. 24:46 So the Lord was lining everything up, as well as my 24:49 dad and my sister. 24:51 My dad was visiting my sister in that area, too. 24:53 So they were able to see me share for the first time. 24:56 Michael was there and his dad was crying. 24:59 So it was a very powerful experience of just following 25:04 the path that God had outlined for me. 25:07 And a month later, we were recording for Strategies for 25:09 Strongholds, which was a program that you, you know, 25:12 helped us to to produce. 25:15 Yeah. 25:16 Do you remember what you said when we were recording all of 25:19 the 24 testimonies and interviews that were going to 25:22 make his the first? 25:23 You came to me and says, this one is the one we're going to 25:25 make first. 25:26 Yeah. 25:30 where he had me, where I was. 25:32 I mean, to this, you know, it's such a I'm like dumbfounded 25:35 with the grace of God and his love and his power to really 25:38 transform. 25:40 But to answer your question, it wasn't necessarily a switch. 25:43 I guess there was an obsession that was lifted when I was 25:47 going through 12 step and experiencing restoration 25:51 through because I was also addicted to pornography. 25:53 It was engaging in masturbation as well. 25:56 And I didn't know how to be freed from it. 25:58 I had been exposed to poor when I was eight. 26:00 And I just I would go to that as a way to cope. 26:04 And it just quickly became a really bad habit and to the 26:07 point where I just couldn't stop. 26:08 So going through that program and learning the principles of 26:12 restoration and surrender, I started to not see men in a 26:17 sexualized way. 26:19 And I would still feel a polar temptation, but I was learning 26:23 to say no and just submit myself to God. 26:26 Like it says, submit yourself to God, resist the devil and he 26:30 will flee from you. 26:31 And that promise, I would cling on to that. 26:33 I would also cling on to Romans 12, two, which talks about do 26:37 not be conformed with the behaviors and customs of this 26:40 world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. 26:42 And then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is 26:45 good and pleasing and perfect. 26:47 So that was one of the two of the promises I would always 26:51 claim in my prayer time. 26:53 And I was experiencing just feeling more joy, feeling at 26:57 peace. 26:58 So I would say that that was part of it. 27:00 And then in 2022, when I was sharing my testimony at GYC, I 27:05 would pray and I was eight months after he did her 27:08 program. 27:09 You were fast track, Daniel. 27:10 God was fast track. 27:12 Yeah. 27:13 And I was just following him, you know, just whatever, 27:16 whatever he wanted me to do. 27:17 I was in my prayer closet, reading my Bible, getting 27:21 plugged into my church community, telling my friends 27:23 like, I don't know. 27:24 I didn't do anything. 27:27 journey. 27:28 You showed up. 27:29 So because he was showing up for me. 27:31 God was really present and his love was palpable. 27:34 And I couldn't resist it. 27:37 So so to answer your question, when we met at GYC the second 27:44 time, I would pray and I would ask God, Lord, I don't know who 27:48 to hang out with. 27:49 I don't know anybody here. 27:50 Please show me who to hang out with. 27:52 Here comes Kirsten, you know, just walking three and a half 27:57 years later. 27:58 Wow. 27:59 And we would just have casual, nice conversation. 28:02 I would say we were connecting on a couple of different levels 28:07 intellectually and emotionally at first, just talking about 28:10 her family, her passions, like we both were working as social 28:13 work therapists and just about God and just good general 28:18 conversation. 28:22 reasons. 28:23 And then I started to have these feelings and I would have 28:26 these sexual thoughts towards her. 28:28 And I'm like, what's going on with me? 28:30 Like, this is strange for me. 28:32 Maybe other men may not have, you know, those types of 28:36 thoughts of it, that being strange, you know, still, you 28:39 don't want to entertain those thoughts. 28:40 But for me, that was strange. 28:42 So I'm like, is this loss? 28:44 I'm surrendering it. 28:45 I'm just trying to let it go. 28:48 And then she crossed my path again. 28:50 Whenever I would pray, Lord, show me who I should hang out 28:53 with. 28:53 And would you like to add? 28:55 So in my mind, this is where I already had told the Lord, 28:59 Lord, I'm not going to date anyone until 2024. 29:02 So I'm focused. 29:04 I'm not. 29:05 But I did enjoy the company because, yeah, we were 29:08 connecting intellectually and so forth. 29:10 But I did not initially see him as attractive. 29:13 No, I was just like, that's my good classmate. 29:15 And, you know, it's just having a good time together. 29:17 Just a platonic conversation. 29:19 And that's it. 29:20 She said to her, so she's not going to date until 2024. 29:22 So she was very she had like a wall. 29:25 Yeah. 29:26 Yeah. 29:27 Everything was just a lot of she was not interested. 29:31 And I started to behave strangely there, too. 29:33 I remember one time there was a group of guys and she was 29:38 talking to them. 29:40 pursue. 29:43 Nice to meet you. 29:44 My name is Daniel. 29:45 I can meet you. 29:45 And I shook their hand. 29:46 I'm like, what is going on with me? 29:48 Were you a little jealous? 29:49 Were you feeling? 29:52 Like, OK, I don't. 29:54 Joking for your position. 29:55 I guess so. 29:56 That was so strange for me because I don't normally behave 29:59 that way. 30:02 let me know. 30:02 Like, yes. 30:06 So that, you know, she didn't engage with me, I guess, that 30:09 day. 30:11 And would you like to share how I dropped the bomb on you? 30:14 Yes. 30:20 And again, we're having a good conversation. 30:22 And I don't know why I just thought about asking him, are 30:28 you interested in anyone? 30:30 But I wasn't saying that as me trying to make a move. 30:34 Yeah, I just I don't know, I felt comfortable to ask. 30:37 And I did not know what he was going to say. 30:40 And then. 30:41 So when she asked me that, I forgot to share that at some 30:44 point, God reminded me that she fit the list that I was praying 30:49 for in a wife, because God asked me to pray for a wife in 30:51 August 2022. 30:54 Well, can you mind just adding, because for me, I think it's so 30:57 vital. 31:00 expect grandchildren. 31:01 I'm not getting married. 31:02 I'm celibate for Jesus. 31:03 I mean, you were you were disciplined. 31:05 I was aggressively a single looking. 31:10 I was not interested. 31:11 There were some opportunities, but I wasn't genuinely 31:15 attracted to women. 31:16 Honestly, I'm like, there's these beautiful, godly women at 31:18 my church, but I'm not drawn to them. 31:21 I wish I just wasn't. 31:23 So I concluded I'm still homosexual and I have to live 31:27 my life for God. 31:28 And he's given me community. 31:29 He's given me purpose. 31:30 I have a professional life and I'm content. 31:33 So that's what I would tell myself. 31:35 And I started to feel a little lonely. 31:38 And I started to just ask God, Lord, you've changed my 31:42 lifestyle. 31:45 out with. 31:47 What about the gay thing? 31:48 Can you change that? 31:50 And it started with that, just kind of having conversations 31:52 with God. 31:54 And I started to notice Christian couples. 31:57 And so, like yourself, I would see a Christian couple and 32:00 think, wow, they seem like a nice, godly couple. 32:03 But then I'm like, what am I thinking? 32:06 And I just would have these thoughts. 32:10 And then I started to have a curiosity to have something 32:13 like that, to have a life partner who accepted me and 32:17 loved me and I can love and accept them and to do life 32:19 together. 32:22 But then I would just kind of brush it off until God 32:25 convicted me. 32:26 And he told me that he could do the impossible. 32:31 And I laughed at God, kind of how other people in the Bible, 32:35 they laughed at God. 32:36 I think Sarah, she laughed at God too. 32:38 And I just had some unbelief that I didn't think he could 32:41 change somebody like me. 32:43 So, he told me to pray for a wife. 32:45 So, I asked him to inspire me with qualities that would make 32:48 a great future wife for me, because clearly I didn't know 32:50 how to pick. 32:51 I had lived a homosexual lifestyle, so I didn't really 32:55 know what love really was. 32:57 So, at this point, fast forward to she asked me at dinner at 33:02 GYC, and I knew that she fit the bill of the qualities that 33:07 would make a wonderful wife and beautiful marriage. 33:10 And so, I thought, should I tell her the rule or should I 33:13 just not say anything right now? 33:15 And I'm like, well, I have nothing to lose. 33:19 I'm only here to share my testimony. 33:22 You know everything about me. 33:23 But I think you have great qualities that would make a 33:26 wonderful wife. 33:27 And I'm interested in you. 33:30 I was really direct. 33:32 I've heard other stories where some guys, they've manipulated 33:36 or they try to say, God told me you're going to be my wife. 33:38 And people make mistakes and such. 33:40 So, we didn't rush into anything. 33:46 Internally, I just wanted to like leave, run away. 33:51 But I just, a generic response telling him, okay, thank you. 33:56 And I think you're a good individual, too. 33:59 And, you know, just leave it at that. 34:01 Very clinical. 34:03 Is that called the friend zone? 34:05 Is that when you friend zone something? 34:07 Clinical. 34:09 She kept it very, I'm like, okay, what do you think? 34:12 And she was just like no emotion. 34:15 So I'm like, okay. 34:17 But she still wanted to go for a walk. 34:19 So I'm like, if you didn't like what I said in my mind, why 34:23 would you still want to hang out? 34:25 But you still, would you like to share what you think about 34:27 that? 34:28 I think it's just like a friend, a good friend. 34:31 And that's how I was seeing him. 34:33 And also because I had that goal, I'm like, it is not time 34:37 yet. 34:37 It's not 24 yet. 34:39 So I'm like, no, I'm not going to start or lead someone. 34:43 And then, you know, it might not work out. 34:46 So that's where my head was at. 34:49 So she's very firm with her boundaries. 34:51 And I told her, too, that I wasn't trying to rush anything. 34:54 I wanted to be intentional friends. 34:56 I didn't want to stay as friends, but I wanted to pray 34:59 and see how God wanted to lead our relationship. 35:01 So that's basically the beginning of our testimony. 35:04 But yes, God allowed us to be intentional friends for a 35:08 couple of months, I think five months or so, and then we 35:11 courted and then we got married. 35:14 And he gave us confirmations throughout the way. 35:17 Would you like to share maybe one or two confirmations? 35:20 Yeah. 35:25 working in him of putting together this list of qualities 35:28 for a wife. 35:30 He also was working with me in the sense that I was together 35:37 with my friends, female friends, you know, just talking 35:40 about life. 35:41 And then one of my friends told me, Kirsten, you know, what do 35:47 you think about if there's like a godly man that's loving, you 35:51 know, has all these great qualities, but had a past life 35:56 being gay? 35:57 And I never thought about that question before, but I wasn't 36:01 like, absolutely not. 36:03 And so I think that was also just the Lord putting a seed in 36:08 me also. 36:09 And my friend, when she asked me this question, it wasn't 36:11 like she was going around asking everybody, it was 36:14 specifically to me. 36:15 Does she know Daniel? 36:16 No, no. 36:18 And I hadn't even had no conversations with him before 36:22 either. 36:28 And another major confirmation after about three months of 36:32 being intentional friends, she invited me to go to this 36:36 conference called Love in the Making, which is kind of ironic 36:38 because God was literally creating like love between us 36:41 and we were really growing closer as good friends. 36:44 And really, I would say I was falling in love very quick. 36:49 And the speaker for this conference, he actually used to 36:53 be gay and him and his wife were going to be sharing. 36:57 And I'm like, wow, when do you see speakers that they had that 37:00 background? 37:03 We had a chance to meet them. 37:05 And actually, I think Miguel and his wife, Christina, I 37:08 think they were also on an episode, I believe. 37:10 That's right. 37:11 Dare to dream. 37:13 So we had a chance to connect with them. 37:15 And those are just two confirmations that God had 37:18 revealed to us in our journey because I know sometimes people 37:21 may try to force something that's not there. 37:25 And so we really wanted his direction for our life. 37:28 So after we got married, May of last year, 2024, it's going to 37:34 be a year or 24. 37:36 Yeah. 37:37 Isn't that funny? 37:38 She was really not trying to... 37:38 Wait, this is unfair. 37:39 There's one detail that I love about their story because it 37:42 really just to me, it just really shows how Daniel's like, 37:45 you know, pursue, pursue, pursue. 37:47 And Kirsten's like, resist, resist, resist. 37:50 Because Kirsten, you were on this path of purity and Daniel 37:55 is feeling his manhood. 37:56 And there still was like a conflict there going. 38:00 And when she told me this part of the story, I looked at 38:02 Kirsten and I go, that girl's discipline. 38:05 Like that was really powerful. 38:07 Will you share that place? 38:08 Yeah. 38:14 And I guess to others, it could be very extreme. 38:18 So when we did see each other at Love in the Making, like we 38:21 had spoke about like boundaries, physical 38:24 boundaries, because in my mind, I'm like, no, the Lord has 38:28 really restored me. 38:30 I don't want to go back and repeat history. 38:33 So I was super, super cautious, like a mile away. 38:37 Like I don't want to be close, not even an inch. 38:41 So when I had dropped him off at the airport, I was just 38:46 impressed to tell Daniel, like, look, Daniel, if there's 38:50 anything that happens between us, like sexually, strike one, 38:53 you're out. 38:54 Like, no, no, not at all. 38:57 So when she said that, I felt very more attracted to her, 39:03 like more like, wow, she really respects herself. 39:05 Like she's a true like wife material and okay, because yes, 39:10 some of the boundaries are kind of too strict for my liking. 39:13 Like I wanted to put my arm around her, you know, like 39:15 touch your hand. 39:16 And so we were also long distance. 39:18 So even to this day, it's in the back of my mind. 39:21 Okay, when we're in public, you know, like no touchy touchy, I 39:24 like it. 39:25 Like I do. 39:27 So yeah, that was something that we had to work through, 39:31 especially we want to respect each other's boundaries then. 39:34 But yeah, that was something that really brought her up even 39:36 more for me. 39:37 That's what I love about it. 39:38 While she was holding on to the principle, not knowing what his 39:41 reaction would be, she didn't even realize it. 39:43 But when she put the brakes on all of that, for him, it was 39:46 like, go, go, go even more. 39:48 It's like, she is the one, right? 39:50 Yeah. 39:54 that you're a princess and you're to be valued and 39:56 respected and to put those boundaries up can actually make 40:00 you even more attractive to someone. 40:02 And so I think that a lot of our young girls, you know, 40:05 because they don't know their value, you know, they end up in 40:07 compromising situations. 40:08 But their story to me really helps to affirm everyone's 40:12 value. 40:13 And also for the young men, if I can add to, you know, just 40:16 because you have sexual desires for a woman, like you're not 40:19 defined by that either. 40:19 You're not animalistic. 40:21 You don't have to give in. 40:23 And even though it might feel like it, you can resist. 40:26 God does give the power to do that. 40:27 And you don't have to beat yourself up and feel ashamed 40:30 for having attractions because even in the word of God, it 40:33 says that Jesus was tempted and out points as we yet without 40:35 sin. 40:39 judgment, pray for wisdom because God will, he promises 40:42 to give that wisdom. 40:43 And if you know you're tempted with certain things, then don't 40:47 be around it. 40:50 trying to take moves on you and don't make moves on them 40:53 because that's not alignment with God's word. 40:56 And we know that true joy and peace really is in alignment 41:00 with God's principles. 41:01 He designed us to live in eternity and breaking those 41:05 boundaries only is deception at the end of the day. 41:09 The grass is not greener on that side of things. 41:11 That's good. 41:12 That's powerful, isn't it? 41:14 Can I ask a question? 41:15 Yeah. 41:18 married, this is a question. 41:20 I want to know, Kirsten, when was it that Daniel stepped into 41:23 the driver's seat? 41:24 Like when was it that you were like, okay, I think I do love 41:27 this guy. 41:30 Because, you know, you went from dating and resisting to 41:32 boom, you're married. 41:33 You know, I know that there's a little bit more in between. 41:36 So the Lord had to really speak to me because I dedicated like 41:41 Lord, no, like in your time. 41:43 And I guess I had put a time and not allow God to put his 41:48 time. 41:58 that really cared about my journey and spiritual life, and 42:02 they knew about my past as well. 42:05 So I had one friend of mine, he saw like the journey, like 42:10 after the breakup, you know, I was depressed and a roller 42:14 coaster. 42:19 making. 42:25 And he said that, you know, Kirsten, I have been praying 42:29 for you for a while. 42:31 And I was impressed to remove you from my prayer list because 42:35 I've seen how the Lord has really restored you, given you 42:38 his identity. 42:40 And I think you should give him a chance. 42:45 Praise the Lord for that brother. 42:49 And then just also seeing how the qualities that he was 42:54 displaying, like he was very caring, very godly. 42:58 Whenever we would talk on the phone, because we were long 43:02 distance, he would always initiate prayer and he was 43:05 honest. 43:06 And so just seeing that of itself was what I was longing 43:11 for in my other relationships. 43:13 And I guess in the other relationships I was forcing it 43:16 and I wasn't allowing God to lead me. 43:21 And so it was actually, yeah, the Lord had to really be like, 43:25 okay, just take that leap of faith. 43:29 And because there was some other confirmations as well, 43:32 but those were like the main ones for me. 43:35 That's amazing. 43:36 So what response have you gotten from people about your 43:41 relationship? 43:43 Have you gotten resistance, for example, Daniel, from people 43:46 who are still living the homosexual lifestyle and 43:49 saying, oh, you can't change or whatever? 43:51 I mean, what kind of responses have you both gotten about your 43:55 marriage? 43:55 Yeah, that's a great question. 43:57 And we actually talked about this. 43:59 And in general, when we share, most people don't come up to us 44:02 and say anything negative necessarily. 44:07 But I do have friends and know people on social media and such 44:11 that are still living in the LGBTQ community. 44:15 And most of them respect my decision. 44:18 Some people claim, oh, you're just bisexual. 44:23 But I know I was strictly homosexual. 44:26 I didn't have any feelings or desires for women. 44:29 And what I have for my wife, I know came from God because of 44:32 the steps that he took me through to get to this point. 44:35 And, you know, even if they don't understand, that's okay, 44:40 you know, it's not God isn't forced. 44:42 So I don't have to try to force to convince people otherwise, 44:45 because by their fruit, you shall know them. 44:47 So, you know, the fruit that I bear is thanking it to Christ, 44:50 honoring his name and sharing is the Holy Spirit's job to 44:54 convict and to bring people to an awareness of their sins and 44:58 the things that they've fallen short because he's everyone's 45:01 savior if we just accept him. 45:03 That's right. 45:07 with the ministry, you maybe seem like you focus on LGBTQ or 45:11 whatever, but really, as you travel, as you talk, as you 45:15 minister here, you're letting people know that no matter what 45:18 your issues are, because we all have them, we're all sinners, 45:23 that God can give us victory over whatever sin. 45:26 You're honest enough to tell yours and yours, and, you know, 45:30 some of us aren't. 45:32 Some of us may be hiding, and we're back here, and I say we, 45:36 I'm saying we, the human race, a lot of us, our tendency is 45:40 not to, well, you don't want everything out in the open, but 45:43 you all are saying, hey, look, this is where I was, this where 45:47 you may be right now, and I don't care if it's one way or 45:50 the other, you know, whatever you have in your life that the 45:55 devil is beating you up, God can give you victory over that. 45:58 That's right. 46:03 that's why Jesus died, is to give us an opportunity that to 46:07 give us victory over sin through Christ Jesus. 46:10 We can't do it on our own, and I noticed that neither one of 46:15 you were saying, well, I just decided this, so I didn't do 46:18 it, and I did this, I didn't do it. 46:20 You both were saying, we pray, we were praying, we were asking 46:24 God, we were telling the Lord, or asking Lord, what do you 46:28 want me? 46:33 we, what I'm getting from this and for those at home, whatever 46:36 your issues tonight are, whatever they are, God can give 46:40 you victory too. 46:40 That's right. 46:45 go ahead. 46:46 So 1 Corinthians chapter 6, I think is really the definition 46:50 of our ministry, because it says, do not be deceived, you 46:54 know, and it lists all of the abominations that won't be in 46:57 heaven, and you know what? 46:58 Yes, homosexuality is mentioned there, and it's very clear, 47:02 it's homosexual offenders, and so God doesn't have a problem 47:05 with people that are same-sex -attracted, because he 47:08 understands that there are reasons why, you know, we were 47:10 same -sex-attracted, but he calls out for the offenders, he 47:15 talks about the idolaters, the fornicators, the licentious, 47:18 you know. 47:19 The gossipers, the drunk. 47:22 know, homosexuality, and I was one of those people that walked 47:25 out of the church culture, because that's all I heard was 47:27 that, you know, gays were going to burn in a hotter house, so, 47:31 you know, not only is it the LGBT, but you know, anyone that 47:36 struggles with porn addiction and, you know, sexual thoughts 47:39 or licentiousness, or even sexual abuse, which, you know, 47:41 when Hector shares his story, he's a powerful story of 47:44 deliverance there. 47:46 So verse 11 was really the impetus that I think that we 47:50 all need access to, and unfortunately, that wasn't what 47:52 I heard in Christian culture, you know, and it's still not 47:55 something that I think is as prevalent as it should be, but 47:58 it says, such were some of you. 48:00 Such were some of you. 48:01 That's right, that's right. 48:02 I love that, that's one of my favorites. 48:04 But I didn't even realize this, but it's not just such were 48:07 some of you, but you've been washed. 48:09 That's right. 48:12 Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God, and to me, it was 48:15 like, you know what, when somebody says, you know, I'm 48:17 gay, I can't change, I go, that's right, you can't. 48:19 I said, but Jesus can do some amazing things in your life. 48:23 That's right, that's right. 48:24 And I think that that has an application for the person 48:26 that's addicted to the porn, you know, for the individual 48:29 that was molested as a child, that, you know, has these 48:32 sexual thoughts, whatever the issue is, all of it is wrapped 48:35 up in verses 9 and 10 and 1 Corinthians with verse 11, and 48:38 I think verse 11 really needs to be celebrated and talked 48:42 about. 48:46 that was shed and what Jesus is doing in the sanctuary now for 48:49 us. 48:50 Praise the Lord. 48:51 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11. 48:53 Daniel just said something very profound, that we might, we're 48:57 talking about all this stuff and it might be heavy for some 49:00 of our audience and he just quietly, as you were naming 49:03 things, said, gossip. 49:05 Yeah, they're mentioned there too. 49:06 Well, we don't want to talk about that. 49:07 That's the church, right? 49:10 Stove. 49:13 We'd rather talk about LGBTQ or, you know, those that 49:17 different from us, adulterers or whatever, but this is a huge 49:21 problem within the Christian community and within the 49:23 Christian church. 49:25 I was telling her, I say, you know, some of these magazines 49:27 that call themselves Christians and some of them Adventists who 49:31 go by names Adventists, they're printing gossip instead of the 49:34 gospel and, you know, that needs to be. 49:38 So there's all kinds of things that God can deliver us. 49:41 I know we only on this hour we've got, and you've got a lot 49:44 of new projects going so... 49:46 Yeah, and I just want to make a comment before we move on 49:49 because, you know, we changed the name from Coming Out 49:52 Ministries to Coming Together Ministries. 49:54 And I think listening to their testimony and many different 49:58 testimonies that Michael could share, really Coming Together 50:01 Ministries is a relationship ministry. 50:04 And it's about that relationship with Christ that 50:07 has the power to transform our identities that we might know a 50:12 broader identity than just our sexualized identity. 50:16 And, you know, there are things in their story that are true to 50:20 everybody's story, even though some of the backgrounds may be 50:23 a little bit different. 50:27 background stories than most people know because we don't 50:30 have an open forum for talking about those things. 50:32 But the denial of one's person in what I'll call superficial 50:38 expression of affection and the connecting with Christ actually 50:44 allows a healing encounter that delivers identity. 50:49 And, you know, all through your life your sense of that 50:52 identity will be a dynamic of attraction and back and forth 50:56 between the two of you. 50:57 And this is true for all relationships. 51:01 But that identity is found not in something I can give away 51:04 and maybe shouldn't give away prematurely. 51:07 It's actually found in what I keep that's primarily kept 51:10 through a relationship with Christ. 51:12 And when I start keeping certain things for Jesus, it 51:15 elevates all of the relational dynamics. 51:19 And out of that there's a healing touch from the master 51:23 today just like there used to be. 51:26 And if there's one thing I want to say about this young couple 51:28 is that their walk with Christ has made them honest people. 51:35 And that honesty is the function of a soul that's wide 51:39 open to Christ. 51:41 And it creates a dynamic of honesty with each other a bit 51:45 of suffering on the way. 51:46 I mean, it's hard when you have more interest in the other 51:48 person than they have in you. 51:50 But it's a journey of trust. 51:52 It's a prayerful waiting for God to architect and heal and 51:57 establish. 51:58 And so this coming together ministries, you know, I've 52:02 heard it said by different folks that talk about addiction 52:05 that the opposite of addiction is connection. 52:08 And that connection is first with Christ. 52:10 Our world is swimming in superficiality. 52:14 But as we actually are willing to go deeper with Christ, which 52:18 does involve a bit of cross carrying. 52:20 It's there's some suffering. 52:21 There's some loneliness. 52:22 There's some being in the wilderness, being on the 52:25 stretch. 52:26 But listen, you know, Michael Card would sing in his song in 52:29 the wilderness. 52:33 self away. 52:35 And that self is in the way of the connection that a lot of 52:39 people want. 52:40 They hang on to an identity that's wrong, built around 52:43 something that was never supposed to be the core of 52:45 their identity. 52:50 only in Christ, because Christ is the great identity giver 52:54 from the beginning and remaker. 52:56 But it also gets in the way of developing relational identity. 52:59 And so your story is laden with multiple layers of victory. 53:05 But a lot of people aren't willing to pay the price. 53:07 But I'll tell you what the Bible says that when we delight 53:10 in him, he gives us the desires of our heart. 53:13 And I know as the chairperson of this ministry dealing with 53:16 different people in this team, it's wonderful to see this 53:20 beautiful outgrowth of Christ, this honesty which lays the 53:23 foundation for a chance to connect so deeply. 53:26 So, so much to share. 53:28 But it's a relationship ministry, first with Christ. 53:31 And he's still changing lives the way he did 2,000 years ago. 53:35 It's not always as dramatic as put mud on somebody's eyes and 53:38 go wash in the pool of Siloam. 53:40 But there is a gentle healer. 53:42 And he is leading us in a way that gives the very best. 53:46 And this testimony is beautiful. 53:48 Amen. 53:48 Powerfully said. 53:52 hour. 53:54 from Hector too, of course. 53:56 But as I sit here and think about it, the ministry, how 54:01 important this ministry is to the Christian church and to the 54:06 Seventh -day Adventist Church. 54:07 Only a few years ago, I'm going to go back and be so bold to 54:11 say about 10 years ago, I want to address that tonight when 54:14 I'm going to an upcoming sermon what happened 10 years ago, 54:18 2015. 54:21 But things have changed and the moral decay and the spiral is 54:26 going so quickly. 54:28 But it's affecting the church so much that even 10 years ago 54:33 when surveys that were done about do you affirm LGBTQ, you 54:38 know, to now to 2025. 54:43 I just read the other day where I hope it's wrong but it's a 54:49 survey done with a couple thousand supposedly Adventists 54:53 almost 30% now say they're okay to affirm LGBTQ in their 54:58 church. 55:04 okay. 55:09 say. 55:13 You know, but it's my daughter, it's my son, it's my grandson, 55:16 it's my sister. 55:19 And you've got to know that it's such a wonderful person 55:22 and for to not accept them as church members and to do when 55:27 to me that's amazing because the devil doesn't care which 55:31 side of the boat we fall out as long as we fall out. 55:33 So as you're saying if you go to church we want to people 55:38 LGBTQ we want people, alcoholics, drug addicts, we 55:41 want them to come to church. 55:43 We want to love these people but we have to love them enough 55:47 to tell them the truth. 55:48 And the truth is that open sin is against God's commandments 55:53 and therefore we're no matter what it is when we reject 55:57 Christ we're not going to make to heaven. 56:00 So the attitudes within our church when it comes to this 42 56:06 % of 70 Adventists now say that and I got this from Pew 56:11 Research say that abortion should be they support abortion 56:17 in almost all cases. 56:20 That's nearly half of 70 Adventists and it's like wait a 56:24 minute are we the people that preach to Sabbath and you got 56:27 to keep all the commandments including the fourth one but 56:30 all of a sudden the sixth one well that's really not murder. 56:38 Well the seventh one but you got to know the story if you 56:41 knew the story and the person and so we're straying away 56:44 we're getting away so your ministry is to me one of the 56:48 most important ministries in the Adventist Church. 56:52 We should, you should have support from people everywhere 56:55 and that's why we have you all here and that's why we want to 56:58 do because you can say what other people can't say. 57:02 I've never had that issue I've had other plenty of other 57:05 issues but this is an issue people don't want to talk about 57:08 and you know they're quiet and so I believe you guys God has 57:14 called you for such an hour as this this ministry they're 57:17 coming together and that's why we're so thankful and so 57:20 grateful that you allow us to be part of this because we feel 57:25 like we're part of the ministry. 57:27 Whether we are or not we feel like we're part of it. 57:29 We do, we do feel that way. 57:31 Thank you so much for giving us a platform and being able to 57:34 lift up Jesus who he is and what he's done in our lives. 57:38 Well for our folks at home I can't believe the first hour is 57:41 almost gone. 57:42 Don't go away we'll be back in just a moment. |
Revised 2025-04-11