Participants:
Series Code: TDYL
Program Code: TDYL250019A
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00:02 I want to spend my life, mending broken.
00:14 I want to spend my life. 00:35 I want to spend my life, mending broken. 00:46 I want to spend my life. 01:06 Praise the Lord everyone and welcome to 3ABN today and we 01:11 are live. 01:12 Isn't that right? 01:13 We are live. 01:13 You know what that means though? 01:15 That means that when we pray together for this live viewing, 01:19 we will actually be praying together in real time. 01:22 Praise the name of the Lord. 01:24 I'm Pastor Ryan Johnson. 01:25 And I'm Anissa Johnson. 01:27 And today's discussion is very, very important. 01:29 And this is stuff that we need to talk about, especially 01:32 considering the time and the age that we live in. 01:35 So you may want to get a pencil, a pen and a tablet, 01:39 papers. 01:42 want to forget the things we're going to talk about today 01:45 because it's important. 01:46 Isn't that right? 01:46 It is. 01:49 families. 01:50 We'll be looking at the role of families in the church and the 01:54 role of churches in the families. 01:56 I love the way you said that family in the church, churches 01:59 in the family. 02:00 And I know that you're going to have questions because this is 02:04 really good stuff. 02:05 So I would like to tell you how you can submit your questions. 02:08 Even now, as we are interviewing and talking, you 02:12 can go to live at 3ABN.TV. 02:16 You can email your questions there to live at 3ABN.TV or you 02:22 can text, not call. 02:23 If you call, nothing's going to happen. 02:25 You can text your questions to 618-228-3975. 02:34 Remember, don't call. 02:35 You can text your questions to that number and the number is 02:38 there on the screen for those of us who are who are watching 02:43 and viewing. 02:44 Now, Anissa, we've been married. 02:46 Oh, what's that going to be this year? 02:47 I don't know. 02:48 It's time has flown by. 02:49 It seems like about five years, five years. 02:51 That's what it is. 02:56 20 years. 02:57 It's going to be 20 years, 20 good years. 02:59 Praise the name of the Lord. 03:00 Amen. 03:01 20 wonderful years. 03:02 And even though we've been married 20 years, we're going 03:05 to learn some stuff tonight, are we not? 03:07 I got my pen and my paper. 03:09 I've got my pen and paper. 03:10 The Lord is going to bless us. 03:12 Well, honey, I would like to ask you to have an opening word 03:15 of prayer for us. 03:17 But before you do, I just want to take a moment and thank you 03:21 all. 03:22 So much for your support. 03:23 Your support means a lot. 03:26 And there are many ways to support. 03:28 But because of what you do, we're able to do what we do. 03:30 And what is that? 03:32 That is spreading the gospel all around the world, spreading 03:34 the gospel of the three angels message all around the world. 03:39 So thank you so much. 03:40 You know what else? 03:41 Even when you send in an encouraging word, that makes a 03:45 difference, doesn't it, Anissa? 03:46 It does. 03:49 encouraging you. 03:50 Thank you so much. 03:51 We hope that we are a blessing to you. 03:53 We pray that we are because you certainly are a blessing to us. 03:57 Anissa, would you have an opening word of prayer? 03:59 Yes, let's pray. 04:02 Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you so much. 04:05 We thank you for your love. 04:06 We thank you for your sacrifice. 04:09 You are a wonderful, generous God who has done more for us 04:12 than we deserve. 04:14 But still, we continue to ask Lord. 04:16 We ask for your blessing. 04:17 We ask for you to fill this place with your Holy Spirit, 04:21 Lord. 04:22 Let our message touch somebody out there. 04:26 Let someone who needs to hear it, hear it and learn. 04:31 Again, Lord, we love you. 04:34 In Jesus' name we pray. 04:35 Amen. 04:37 Amen. 04:37 Praise the Lord for a praying wife. 04:39 Have mercy. 04:40 Well, let's just maintain this little attitude of prayer and 04:45 meditation. 04:49 going to be playing, How Long Has It Been? 08:20 Praise the Lord. 08:22 Oh, praise the name. 08:22 That was beautiful. 08:23 That was beautiful. 08:25 Well, today we have our special guest, Pastor Steve and Tammy 08:31 Conway. 08:33 They are co-directors of their ministry called The Stamina for 08:36 Life. 08:38 Welcome. 08:38 It's wonderful to have you all here. 08:40 Thank you. 08:40 It's always a pleasure to be here. 08:42 Now, you all live in the Detroit area. 08:44 Is that correct? 08:45 Yes, Metro Detroit. 08:46 But you're originally from the Ohio. 08:49 Yes, Cleveland, Ohio, born and raised, both of us. 08:52 So when we say, where are you from? 08:54 What do you say? 08:57 Still say, still say Cleveland, Ohio. 09:01 Originally, originally. 09:03 This is not your first time to 3ABN. 09:06 Is that correct? 09:07 Yes. 09:11 blessed. 09:13 I would like before, Anissa, I know you have a question before 09:16 we go there. 09:23 recovery specialist. 09:25 And, you know, excuse me for using this cliche phrase, but 09:29 that seems like a match made in heaven. 09:31 Can you just tell us how it is the Lord brought you together? 09:36 Just take your time and tell us the path that led to where you 09:39 are. 09:43 And break it down. 09:44 Yeah, as as I said, we were both born and raised in 09:47 Cleveland, Ohio. 09:48 And I can't make this up. 09:50 We met in high school and chemistry class. 09:55 Oh, but the chemistry wasn't chemistry at that time. 10:03 Which was a good thing, probably. 10:06 Yes, based on where I was in my my spiritual journey where she 10:09 was as well as me. 10:11 Yeah, but I went away actually to a place you're familiar with 10:16 and I think it was 1996 went to Las Vegas, Nevada literature 10:21 evangelism program and I came back a converted man. 10:26 What was the name of that program? 10:27 We were with HHS or something like that. 10:30 We stayed in the Las Vegas Junior Academy and had an 10:36 encounter with the Lord that was truly life altering and 10:40 ended up coming back home, actually going going away to 10:44 college. 10:50 God with everyone that I knew. 10:52 And so the Lord brought this lovely lady and her best friend 10:56 at the time. 10:58 We crossed each other's paths. 11:00 Yeah, yeah, invited them to Bible study. 11:03 She was already going to church, not a Seventh-day 11:06 Adventist Church, but going to church nonetheless very much 11:09 involved and our paths cross. 11:12 We had a Bible study together and maybe two or something like 11:17 that. 11:18 And then you left. 11:21 I left to go away. 11:22 I was working in Tennessee at the time, but she was connected 11:26 with the pastor of a local church and his family and also 11:30 with my family. 11:32 And that began the journey. 11:33 You want to pick it up from there? 11:35 Yeah, yeah. 11:36 I am, you know, having come from made a lot of mistakes and 11:40 a lot of different things in my life and the Lord had me on a 11:43 journey and I was growing right and I happened to connect 11:47 really closely with his family, particularly his mother. 11:50 We had, we share some commonalities in our 11:52 experiences of upbringing and traumas and different things of 11:55 that nature. 12:01 another realization of another area of my growth and 12:03 spirituality. 12:07 and then ultimately with the pastor of a beautiful church in 12:10 Ohio, Chesterton First Church and Pastor Swayze Good and his 12:14 beautiful wife who really played a huge part in helping 12:17 me to just grow and heal. 12:20 And that's when I made that next step in my journey where I 12:24 made a decision and it wasn't easy because my family was from 12:28 a completely different faith. 12:29 And when you make a decision to do something that's different 12:32 from the culture or with a norm, people don't always patch 12:36 you on the back and say, hey, great, right? 12:38 So went through some things with that, but the Lord has 12:41 been gracious since then. 12:43 I am no longer the only Adventist in my family and I'm 12:46 able to, you know, celebrate that with my parents and I have 12:50 an aunt as well. 12:51 But that journey started for us there and you know how mothers 12:55 are. 12:56 Yes, ma'am. 12:57 Mothers, you know, were keen. 12:59 His mother was keen and she saw some things that, you know, and 13:04 did her thing and introduced us to each other again. 13:07 And yeah, the Lord moved. 13:11 The Lord moved. 13:12 Interesting. 13:15 I was actually a teacher. 13:16 I was a boys Dean and I was teaching Bible and so forth and 13:21 so on. 13:26 who was overseeing the churches in the area where we were in 13:30 Tennessee. 13:31 I would preach and at a variety of different churches and he 13:36 came and his name was Pastor George Sharp and he came to 13:41 visit me in the boys dorm and said, I think the Lord has his 13:44 hand on you for pastoral ministry. 13:46 Told you. 13:47 And so, you know, I... 13:50 I laughed like Sarai. 13:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 13:52 You know, Tom Feliz. 13:54 Really? 13:57 Yes, we do. 13:58 What was your reaction? 14:00 Well, first, how did you find... 14:01 Well, okay. 14:02 Dean, I'm so excited. 14:03 She was literally in the other room listening. 14:07 I mean, you know, you couldn't make this stuff up. 14:09 She was listening to the conversation. 14:11 Yeah, I was listening. 14:13 And, you know, as I said, I married a teacher. 14:15 Yes. 14:19 You know, I did not necessarily think I fit the bill. 14:22 I didn't play the piano. 14:23 I didn't do the things, right? 14:26 I can be a little loud and you know, but you know, one thing I 14:30 knew for sure before the call came in his life, I saw the 14:33 call. 14:36 life. 14:40 would look like. 14:41 Right. 14:41 Yeah. 14:42 Yeah. 14:47 pastoral ministry. 14:48 We were minister. 14:49 We were very much in ministry. 14:50 Yes, when we were in the educational portion of the 14:55 vineyard working with young people moving to the pastoral 14:58 portion of it was it was unique. 15:01 It was a challenge but new right from the start that man, 15:05 this is where we need to be. 15:06 This is the direction we need to move in. 15:08 And so yeah, that's how we that's how the Lord brought us 15:12 together. 15:13 Yes, he did. 15:15 Yes, he did. 15:15 Thank you for sharing that. 15:17 Can you tell us a little bit more about stamina for life? 15:21 Yes, why don't you explain that every time they asked me 15:24 explain it. 15:27 It's S T A M E N A and sure enough the name stamina. 15:32 We want to infuse that into how people look at relationships. 15:36 We need tools to be able to withstand right some of the 15:40 challenges and the things that come along but it actually is a 15:42 portmanteau of both of our names. 15:44 Steven and Tamara stamina. 15:47 Okay, you're welcome. 15:50 Right? 15:52 Yes, and for life is we believe you need by the grace and power 15:56 of God in his grace to be able to push through right the 16:00 avenues of relationship development for life, right? 16:03 And so that is the underpinnings of that. 16:06 Yeah, and what's the vision you see moving forward with this? 16:10 Yeah, we we've been working with people ever since we were 16:15 back in the Academy and the Academy and we continue to work 16:19 with people spent time on secular University campus 16:23 chaplain pastor there and even in our churches. 16:26 Now we still work with people but you know passion is really 16:33 helping people to heal and experience the type of 16:38 relationships that God intends. 16:41 So what we have dreamed of together and what we're praying 16:46 about is a most of us are familiar with lifestyle 16:50 centers. 16:54 pressure needs to come down, you know, hypertension, 16:57 whatever the case may be, but we ask ourselves, where can 17:02 couples go? 17:08 transformation in terms of an intensive experience where they 17:13 learn principles and they begin to heal on a relational level 17:17 and they get the tools that they can not only experience in 17:21 this intensive, but they can also take home with them. 17:23 So our vision is to actually have a place just like that 17:27 where married couples can come and individuals who have 17:31 experienced loss or trauma or change in their lives can come 17:35 and they can experience healing and we can take them through an 17:39 intensive program where they can quite literally by the 17:42 grace of God experience the touch of Jesus through our 17:46 ministry. 17:47 So that's what our vision is. 17:49 I love that. 17:50 I love that. 17:50 Powerful vision. 17:51 Emotional and relationship healing. 17:54 May I ask something? 17:56 So the Lord has given you this vision clearly. 17:59 So that would be like a location and people would go 18:03 there and receive the ministry of the Lord has given you. 18:08 Yeah, you got a name for it. 18:10 Yeah, what's the Lord told you? 18:11 Would it be stamina for you? 18:13 Yeah. 18:17 we we envision a 7 or 10 day program where people will come 18:24 and it's not going to its its primary focus is going to be 18:28 relationship, but it will entail, you know exercise and 18:33 lifestyle change and all of those things as well. 18:35 But but we we really envision just a place where maybe two 18:41 couples at a time will have a little what do we call them a 18:46 little little cottages that they can stay in or for you 18:49 know, a husband who's just lost a wife or wife who's just lost 18:53 a husband or a family who's lost a child or on and on they 18:58 can come and they can stay and they can engage with us and 19:01 with our team and we can help them to again, just get back to 19:05 a point and a place of wholeness and health. 19:09 Yeah, that's exciting. 19:10 Yeah, no friends. 19:13 This is the vision. 19:15 This is the vision the Lord has given this couple. 19:17 We need to hold them up in prayer because this is 19:20 something that we need. 19:21 Can you see it? 19:22 I can't yeah and the cottages and everything. 19:25 Oh God is in this now you all have you've traveled around 19:30 doing this and this is probably something that you know you you 19:34 don't want to you know brag about everywhere you've been 19:36 but but I would like to know and and and I know that our 19:40 audience would like to know some of the places where you've 19:43 had a chance to minister. 19:45 Oh, I mean, you know God has been extremely good when I 19:49 think about you know, I think about our beginnings, you know, 19:52 to young people who grew up in the hood, right? 19:54 I never thought that I would leave and go anywhere outside 19:57 of my city of Cleveland, Ohio. 19:59 But the God God because of his word and because of the mission 20:02 that he's given us, he's taken us all over the world. 20:04 We've been to Asia. 20:05 We've been to the South Pacific. 20:08 We've been to South America. 20:11 We've we've been to Europe all over the world, you know, and 20:14 it has been a tremendous blessing to touch people and to 20:18 listen to people and spend time that no matter our differences 20:22 people deal with a lot of the same things, right? 20:24 Families are starving all over the world. 20:27 Marriages are struggling all over the world. 20:29 Children and parents are struggling all over the world. 20:31 And so it has been a privilege and an honor to step into those 20:34 spaces with people no matter what language they speak that 20:38 they connect with you on that level. 20:40 Everybody speaks the language of brokenness and everybody 20:44 speaks the language of healing by the grace of God. 20:46 So I would like to repeat that. 20:49 So as you've gone to Europe and South America and Asian and 20:52 other places, you see families. 20:55 There is a commonality. 20:57 Yes, have mercy and the same word that is good enough in one 21:01 place is good. 21:01 Man, I love this. 21:02 This is this is excellent. 21:04 I want to go into some of the things that that they have said 21:09 in some of the material that they've submitted. 21:11 But do you have a question before I go there? 21:13 I do for Tammy. 21:16 You had mentioned before you weren't a Seventh-day Adventist 21:20 and when you became there was a culture clash in your family. 21:24 Yeah, yeah. 21:28 know that soul wedge in there. 21:30 Yeah, how do you reconcile that or how do are you able to bring 21:35 the rest of your family into that space or at least live in 21:41 the same space without conflict? 21:43 Yeah, it's interesting because if I'm honest with you, I 21:47 failed tremendously in the beginning when I and my husband 21:50 can tell you there were times when, you know, even he had to 21:53 step in and say Tamra like you need to dial it down, right? 21:56 Because when you find something not only that is a treasure for 21:59 you, you feel like you got to tell everybody, but then also I 22:01 think it was also at a time in my life where I was healing and 22:05 the Lord was taking me through a process of me seeing the 22:07 people in my family as gyms. 22:11 And so he had to shift my mindset. 22:14 Sometimes when you get something that's as good as, 22:17 you know, what was given to me, you don't realize that you are 22:22 supposed to be a blessing, right? 22:24 And so my mouth could be reckless, you know, I think I 22:28 said things and I did things that could be offensive, but by 22:32 the grace and power of God through healing and growing, he 22:36 was able to help me to acknowledge that and to be able 22:39 to not only apologize, you know, to my family for that, 22:42 but also to recognize that people's growth processes, 22:47 everybody's in process. 22:48 And so he has helped me to be able to walk with people 22:52 generously and with grace, right? 22:55 Not for them to reach where I am, but to be able to show 22:58 Christ to them. 23:00 And sometimes I think we make that mistake sometimes that 23:02 just because we leave something and we come into something new 23:05 that is our job to change people. 23:06 But I learned very quickly. 23:07 It is not my job to change people. 23:10 So what are the skills you would need? 23:12 I understand patience. 23:14 What else? 23:15 First and foremost, I think one of the tools is self-awareness. 23:19 Self-awareness allows you to be able to watch your tone, what 23:22 you're saying, how you're saying, and what you're 23:23 presenting to people. 23:25 Definitely patience and understanding that God, the 23:27 Holy Spirit is the conduit for people to change. 23:31 Being willing to apologize, being willing to acknowledge 23:34 where you may be wrong. 23:35 And then ultimately being willing to walk alongside, 23:39 right? 23:43 So we have to be careful though, because I know 23:45 sometimes when you find the right path, you have a tendency 23:49 to be a little judgmental and point fingers. 23:52 Yeah, you can take the path and pick it up and start beating 23:54 people with it, right? 23:57 And I like what you said about self-awareness because often 24:01 sometimes our zeal is about something other than the 24:06 gospel. 24:07 You know, this is the time where I can be right. 24:10 And if I've never been right in the context of my family, well, 24:14 now I know I'm right. 24:16 And God is on my side and the Bible is on my side. 24:20 Man, would you say that again? 24:21 That's strong stuff. 24:23 So it's like I've never been right before. 24:27 Yeah, I've never been right. 24:28 And if I've never been right in my family, if I've been the 24:31 black sheep, if I've always been the one that's a 24:34 troublemaker, if I'm always the one, the middle child, right? 24:39 The one whose things are on display and what have you. 24:42 Well, now I'm right. 24:43 And I know I'm right in a way that I never have before. 24:46 And I'm going to tell every one of y'all how I'm right. 24:51 And so, but that's not based on having the love of God for 24:56 someone. 25:01 having found the best thing in the world and having a desire 25:04 to share it. 25:05 It's based on something that is less than, less than ideal. 25:10 And so, self-awareness is an extremely important, it's an 25:15 extremely important attribute in that process of sharing. 25:18 Thank you. 25:19 Thank you very much. 25:20 Sister, we hear you very well. 25:22 You have spiced your language with the word heal. 25:27 I've been hearing it, I've been hearing it. 25:28 And I imagine that part of the journey that we're describing 25:32 here, you found the truth and you're there and you're at 25:34 odds. 25:35 Healing was, yeah. 25:38 Are you willing to tell us just kind of where your mind was 25:42 when you were getting frustrated with the family 25:45 members and also what the turning point was. 25:49 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 25:50 So, you know, one of the things that ran me to God was a lot of 25:55 unresolved trauma, whether it was sexual abuse or verbal. 26:01 I grew up in a very chaotic home where there was addiction. 26:04 My parents divorced when I was nine, but they remarried when I 26:07 was 19. 26:08 And there was a lot of things to still process through. 26:10 And I would love to tell you that when God drew me to him, 26:13 that I was healed, but I was not. 26:15 But he nonetheless drew me to himself. 26:17 And it was in the process of being connected with God that 26:20 God began to peel back those layers. 26:23 And he puts me in the space with the people who may have 26:26 either caused the trauma, right, or I experienced it 26:29 with. 26:34 to go through a process of forgiveness and I had to go 26:36 through a process of, you know, because my dad was an 26:39 alcoholic, by the grace and power of God, he is not an 26:41 alcoholic today. 26:42 And he's been sober for many years. 26:44 And so we all were going through a process of healing. 26:47 And what my husband and I like to call healing, another word 26:50 for that simply is just sanctification. 26:51 Come on now. 26:52 It literally is the work of a lifetime. 26:54 And so mine began, I'm sure, well before I knew it. 26:58 But verbally and physically and mentally, I began to see it 27:02 taking place where God was mending my family together. 27:05 Just a conway. 27:06 Every single time a testimony like this comes out, there's 27:10 somebody who was watching, who was listening and they're 27:13 connecting. 27:16 This is why the Lord had me listening. 27:18 And so I would like us for a second to step out as the 27:22 middle people and ask you to just look into that camera and 27:25 talk to that person who needs to heal. 27:28 Talk to that person who needs some self-awareness. 27:30 Talk from your heart just for a minute, I pray. 27:33 You know, the journey of healing, though they say it 27:37 takes a lifetime, let me tell you, you want it to happen 27:41 right now. 27:42 The things that we've experienced and gone through in 27:45 life, many of those things we didn't ask for, right? 27:47 And the bitterness and the resentment, one of the things 27:50 that I learned is that God really actually does 27:51 understand. 27:56 talked about, all of those things and to be rejected, 27:59 right? 28:02 there are so many more people like us that God is walking 28:06 right beside us and He will heal you to the space and the 28:09 place in your life so where you will be able to show up as the 28:12 best version of yourself. 28:13 You will be able to love the unlovable. 28:16 Forgiveness is one aspect and I want you to know that that is a 28:19 part. 28:21 teach you and show you that you can forgive and you can heal 28:25 and you can use your experience as a testimony, the test that 28:29 you've been through as a testimony to be able to 28:31 encourage other people. 28:33 Okay, so two preachers in the house praising the name of 28:35 Jesus. 28:36 Amen. 28:36 Amen. 28:37 So now you guys have your own family, four kids. 28:43 I'd read something in your information but can you tell me 28:48 how do we demonstrate or define, demonstrate and 28:52 practice the love of Christ in the family? 28:55 Yeah. 28:57 This is one of our favorite quotes and we believe that it's 29:01 God's secret weapon and His secret weapon is not actually a 29:05 secret, it's the family and this is from Adventist Home, 29:10 page 32. 29:11 The greatest evidence of the power of Christianity that can 29:14 be presented to the world is a well-ordered, well-disciplined 29:19 family. 29:20 This will recommend the truth as nothing else can for it is a 29:28 living witness of its practical power upon the heart. 29:33 So, I mean, that's a whole lot there but I like this greatest 29:40 evidence of the power of Christianity but it's within 29:43 the context of the family because it's a demonstration, a 29:48 living witness of the practical power of Christianity upon the 29:53 heart. 29:56 I think, you know, sometimes we'll read things like that and 30:01 it's like, you know, we have a picture that forms in our minds 30:04 and it's like, okay, okay, so now, you know, be quiet in 30:08 church, sit down, don't say anything, you know, and you 30:13 know, all that other stuff. 30:15 I think this is pointing us towards an ideal and it's a 30:19 journey that is from where I am and where my family is to where 30:24 God's ideal for us is and so oftentimes we think in terms of 30:30 what other people see externally. 30:33 If I'm in church and my children are just sitting there 30:35 quiet and singing and they know how to pray well and they can 30:39 articulate, it's like, I've got it. 30:42 But we believe that this is actually, it's pointing at 30:45 something that's deeper than the externals and this deals 30:50 with our interactions with our children. 30:54 Are we exhibiting patience and kindness when we are connecting 30:59 with our children? 31:01 Are we discipling our children? 31:03 We can take the word discipline and some of us here, you know, 31:07 as we were laughing about earlier, you keep on crying, 31:09 I'll give you something to cry for. 31:11 You know, we forget that it's based on the word disciple. 31:16 Are we teaching our children what it means to be a follower 31:19 of Jesus? 31:20 Are we teaching them about the compassionate Savior who could 31:25 affirm Peter when he said, blessed art thou, Simon Bar 31:28 -Jonah's flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, noble 31:31 my Father which is in heaven. 31:33 He could also have a compassionate look at Peter 31:36 when he failed, right? 31:38 After he denies Jesus for the third time, Jesus is not, you 31:42 know, being led away, man, I told you, he's not doing that. 31:46 But he looks at him with sympathy in his eyes and 31:49 compassion and Peter, of course, is touched by that. 31:52 So are we discipling our children in that manner? 31:57 And I think too, sometimes, I'm going to be honest with you, 32:00 when I read those type of statements, when I've read 32:03 those type of statements, it's intimidating because you look 32:06 at yourself, you're like, well, that's just not us. 32:08 That's not me. 32:09 I don't even know what that looks like. 32:10 I wasn't raised like that. 32:12 How do you execute that? 32:14 But I think that there's a broader picture of also, I say 32:18 this to my husband a lot and to people, I want to also teach my 32:21 children how to fail. 32:23 And I know that that's a strong statement. 32:25 That's powerful. 32:26 But nonetheless, as someone who's, you know, looking to go 32:31 into working with people with addiction, you got to teach 32:34 people how to recover when they fail, right? 32:37 It's been said to us that on average, an addict will 32:40 relapse, right? 32:42 Yeah. 32:43 They can relapse between 5.3 to 7 times before they actually 32:47 get it under their belt, that they will recover. 32:50 And so knowing this, how am I going to teach them, right? 32:55 How to recover? 32:56 Oh, you fail. 32:57 How did you get there? 32:58 What were some of the things that happened? 33:00 What were your triggers? 33:01 Where were you going? 33:02 And learning from that. 33:03 And so it's not just about teaching them how to do what's 33:06 right. 33:07 How do you recover from what's wrong? 33:09 Would you be willing to hang out there just a little bit? 33:12 Absolutely. 33:13 So how do we fail? 33:14 What's the way? 33:15 Yes. 33:16 One of the things that I'm so grateful for is that this is 33:22 the equalizer in failure, which is Christ Jesus. 33:26 There are, everyone fails. 33:27 Every human being on the face of the planet fails. 33:29 Anyone who tells you they have not, they are lying. 33:32 The Bible tells us that, right? 33:33 All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. 33:36 The equalizer is having Christ there, right? 33:40 And His word for you to be able to glean from so that you can 33:43 turn there, not to yourself or your own abilities, but to turn 33:46 to Christ and say, Lord, reveal to me, what is it that I should 33:50 have done? 33:52 It's called the DBM. 33:54 The DBM. 33:54 Yes. 33:58 elements of Christianity. 34:00 Yes, sir. 34:01 Of course, confession. 34:02 Confession. 34:03 If we confess our sins to agree, right? 34:06 The word confess means so there's confession. 34:09 Yeah. 34:09 And then there's repentance. 34:11 That's having a change of heart, right? 34:13 And a change of direction in terms of our lives. 34:17 And then of course, there is forgiveness, you know, whether 34:21 we need to extend forgiveness or receive forgiveness because 34:25 we're the ones who have offended someone else. 34:29 So there are things in life. 34:33 This is justification and sanctification or healing. 34:37 There are things that take place immediately in terms of 34:41 setting us right with God. 34:42 Yes. 34:45 Just take time. 34:50 Christian elements. 34:51 Yeah. 34:55 There are things that are immediate. 34:57 God forgives us immediately. 35:00 But no, you got to pay off, you know, what you've stolen and 35:04 you got to pay back. 35:05 You got to clean up where you have where you've destroyed or 35:09 where you've messed up some things. 35:11 So all of those are practical elements that we use and we 35:14 apply in terms of teaching people how to fail. 35:17 Okay. 35:19 You had a question. 35:21 Excuse me. 35:24 When you guys are working with families and you're teaching 35:29 them how to navigate these things, what are some of the 35:34 things that can disrupt that family unity? 35:39 You know, it's interesting. 35:43 week because families are made up of different groups. 35:48 Right? 35:51 husband, wife, grandparents, different things. 35:53 But everyone has expectations. 35:56 Right? 35:59 doing pre-marriage counseling is to let's delve into what 36:03 your expectations, what things are realistic versus what 36:06 things are unrealistic. 36:07 Oh, tell them the equation. 36:12 We made it up. 36:15 But anyway, we like it. 36:18 It's one of the most diabolical equations. 36:20 Okay, it is E minus C equals F. 36:23 And so that simply just means expectations minus 36:27 communications always leads to frustration. 36:30 Hmm. 36:30 Okay. 36:31 I like that. 36:31 Yeah. 36:35 right, wrong or indifferent, but sometimes our communication 36:38 is void right of understanding how to communicate or we have 36:44 expectations from people that we have not communicated to 36:47 them and we get frustrated and therefore conflict arises and 36:52 we have to work through things that we haven't even talked 36:55 about. 36:56 Right? 36:58 Okay, so that leads me to another question. 37:01 You have this family conflict arises and they're 37:06 communicating, but if both sides feel that they're right, 37:10 how do you reconcile, you know, who's going to, you know, I 37:16 don't know, acquiesce. 37:18 How does that work? 37:19 That's a it's a powerful question. 37:22 We were talking about this the other day and it's so difficult 37:26 when I know I'm right. 37:28 You ever been like that where you know you're right? 37:30 No, never. 37:38 But that's what's so challenging about it. 37:40 Right? 37:44 I know that you're wrong as well. 37:47 And so we have there are several different approaches, 37:52 but one of them is this and I know this is difficult. 37:55 We encourage people to listen to the other persons to listen 38:01 to the other person's subjective experience. 38:06 Yeah, subjective experience, subjective experience. 38:09 The word subjective is key there because this is the 38:12 experience as they saw it and as they heard it. 38:16 So the reason why it's important for us to put that 38:19 word subjective in there is because now there's no need for 38:23 me to jump in in defense of what actually happened, right? 38:28 Because I'm merely listening to the things that you heard and 38:32 the things that you saw. 38:34 Now, now here's how we explain this using the Bible. 38:37 Is it is it possible that two people can have a different 38:43 experience with the same person and we go back to the book of 38:47 Genesis and we look at let's say, let's say Abraham's two 38:54 sons, Ishmael and Isaac. 38:56 If you were to speak to Isaac and to Ishmael about their 38:59 experience with their father, their stories would be 39:01 different. 39:02 Same father. 39:04 Yeah, right. 39:04 Okay, let's move on. 39:05 Let's look at Isaac and Isaac's two boys, Jacob and Esau. 39:11 If you talk to Jacob and Esau about their experience with 39:14 their father, vastly different experiences, same father. 39:18 If you spoke to Jacob's sons, Joseph and his brothers about 39:25 their experience with their father, vastly different 39:29 experiences. 39:30 So let's go back to that idea of what is your subjective 39:34 experience, right? 39:36 And each one thinks that they're right. 39:40 So it's possible for us to grow up in the same house, same 39:44 parents. 39:46 You love the parents and I'm like, I don't see how you can 39:49 love them when they did that, but our experiences can be 39:52 vastly different. 39:53 So first allowing that to be placed out there, this was your 39:58 experience. 40:01 how you experienced it. 40:03 And then the other person shares what they've seen, 40:06 heard, lived and experienced. 40:08 And there's, you know, layers upon layers about how you 40:11 unpack that, but you got to begin there because hopefully 40:15 what you can help a couple to experience or a family to 40:19 understand is that just because this is the experience you had, 40:25 it doesn't make it automatic for every other member of the 40:28 family, right? 40:30 Pastor, can I pause right there, guys? 40:31 We're getting into it. 40:33 This, this is the heart of the matter and I know that there 40:36 are questions out there. 40:37 So I just want to pick right up, but I want to remind you to 40:41 send your questions to live at 3ABN.tv and you can also text, 40:47 don't call, but text 618-228 -3975. 40:54 You got to listen to the other subjective experience. 40:58 Please continue, Pastor. 40:59 Yeah, here's the other thing about when I know I'm right. 41:04 I believe that I have the objective perspective on what 41:08 happened. 41:13 it's subjective because it's mine, right? 41:15 So it's as we're willing to listen to one another that by 41:19 the grace of God, we can, we can actually come to a point 41:22 of, oh, that was what you, well, that's I understand how 41:26 you could have heard that, but that's not what I meant. 41:29 That wasn't my intention. 41:31 Yeah, that's not what I was trying to say, right? 41:35 So what? 41:36 No, it's, it's, it's interesting because I think my 41:39 brothers and I, I come from what we call a blended family. 41:41 We both have come from blended families and I remember my 41:45 brother and I are a 10 year gap. 41:48 My brother had a 15 year old mother. 41:50 I had a 26 year old mother, right? 41:53 And I remember being frustrated with him at one point and us 41:56 not being able to see eye to eye on some things until the 41:59 Lord really convicted me and said Tamara, listen, you didn't 42:02 have, you didn't have the same parent he had and I'm like, 42:04 well, yes, we did, you know, Lord, we, Lord last I check our 42:08 DNA matches and the Lord had to show me like, no, he had a 15 42:12 year old mother. 42:13 The experiences that he had with her were drastically 42:15 different, albeit right yours. 42:18 It was yours and I had to, I remember actually having to 42:21 humble myself and I remember writing to my brother and 42:23 apologizing to him for judging his subjective experience, you 42:30 know, and being willing to take a step back and say Tamara, 42:33 your view was different than his. 42:34 There's no need for you to try to change that you can't so 42:38 choosing picking and choosing your battles, right? 42:41 And listening and being willing to listen instead of winning. 42:45 Yeah, okay. 42:46 Yeah, being right being right is often one of the greatest 42:52 enemies to actual healing, reconciliation, unity in a 42:59 family is because someone wants to be right or someone wants 43:04 everyone else to see things the way they see it. 43:07 Yeah, right. 43:14 is so important is simple, but I have to listen. 43:17 Yeah, I have to listen first to what the other person says. 43:21 I shared an experience before where my son or oldest son, you 43:26 know, we love to cook is one of the things we do as a family. 43:30 Everybody gets their opportunity to kind of show off 43:33 their culinary skills, but we were we were doing some cooking 43:37 one day. 43:43 got to a point where the food was gone. 43:47 And the one thing I remembered while everybody was eating was 43:50 my oldest son slurping. 43:52 It was noodles, some Asian food, and I just remembered him 43:55 slurping and turn around like boys you slurred one more time. 43:59 He was just, you know, going at it. 44:01 And I remember I said to him, you know, I said, man, because 44:06 Tamra hadn't eaten and I said, man, I said, brother, you 44:10 couldn't save anything for your mom. 44:12 I said, man, you just you just greedy, man. 44:15 You ate up all the food and whatever, whatever. 44:18 And my son, you know, I can't even remember how old he was at 44:21 the time. 44:21 He started to cry. 44:23 And I'm like, man, what's going on? 44:25 What's crying about? 44:26 Right. 44:28 And he began to paint a picture of the family desiring to come 44:34 together and do something. 44:36 I was the only one who wasn't there. 44:38 And when I got home, I came in on what had become an exercise 44:42 in the family, preparing food in the hopes that we could sit 44:46 down and enjoy the food together. 44:48 He had been the one to pitch the idea and so forth and so 44:51 on. 44:52 So it wasn't true. 44:53 He was thinking about the family. 44:55 That's why we were having this meal the way we were is because 44:58 he had initiated it. 44:59 But I saw something completely different from what was 45:04 reality. 45:05 Yeah. 45:06 Right. 45:06 What did you do? 45:07 What was your response? 45:08 Oh, I had to apologize. 45:09 Okay. 45:09 Ding, ding, ding. 45:10 That's another good one right there. 45:12 You know, when you get slapped up with that, you're wrong. 45:15 Upside your head, which the Holy Spirit will do. 45:18 We have to say, you know what? 45:20 Man, I apologize. 45:21 I was wrong. 45:23 And I should not have said what I did. 45:26 I completely did not understand the situation. 45:30 Please, you know, just give me some mercy. 45:33 I should have given you mercy, but please now, I need that. 45:36 So being able to humble ourselves when God shows us 45:40 where we're wrong. 45:41 Sister Conway, you said that being right is a relationship 45:44 killer. 45:44 Yeah. 45:45 And those are strong words. 45:46 Yeah. 45:52 removed all of the things that the pastor did after the Holy 45:56 Ghost shed the light on him, if he just stayed right where he 46:00 was, I can see how that kills relationships. 46:02 Yeah. 46:03 By God's grace. 46:04 And we had talked earlier about, you know, the idea of 46:09 discipling. 46:11 Yeah. 46:12 How do we fail? 46:13 We were talking about. 46:14 Yeah. 46:15 Well, guess who's the best models of that? 46:17 I know we don't want to be models of failure to our 46:20 children, but when I can acknowledge, when I can 46:25 confess, when I can, you know, ask for forgiveness where 46:30 necessary, when I can do that, then I am in fact in the 46:34 context of the family. 46:37 I'm actually teaching this is how you fail. 46:40 By example. 46:43 You don't hide it. 46:45 You don't make excuses. 46:46 You own it. 46:47 You acknowledge it. 46:48 You confess it. 46:49 And if I come over here, let me talk to you, son. 46:51 Yeah. 46:51 Hey, man, I'm sorry. 46:52 Yeah. 46:53 No. 46:55 I needed to apologize in front of everybody. 46:57 Strong stuff. 46:59 Strong stuff. 47:00 Fail and recover. 47:02 We do have a question that has come in. 47:04 It says, I was raised by a mother who all my life has 47:09 never really said anything positive to me while growing up 47:13 and treated me much different from the rest of my sisters, 47:17 though through, sorry, though her and my two older sisters 47:21 have denied it on many occasions. 47:23 Her negativity, anger and the way she disciplined me and her 47:27 negative words has always impacted me even now that I am 47:31 an adult. 47:35 this, she's been negative, we never really got along. 47:40 But the biggest concern I've had is that I've been negative 47:43 all my life. 47:44 I think negatively. 47:46 I talk negatively and I treat my nephew not as bad as my 47:49 mother did, but it is still negative and I'm constantly 47:53 nagging and I absolutely hate it. 47:55 I know and I have been struggling with this all my 47:59 life and no matter how I pray, I'm still struggling. 48:02 My question is, how do I correct this negativity? 48:06 Yes, yes. 48:08 One of the things I first want to say is it's very powerful 48:12 that you acknowledge, which is one of the exercises you just 48:16 did. 48:21 here's the thing and we are very firm believers in this. 48:26 It would be nice for us to get the acknowledgement from the 48:28 other people in our lives that have harmed us in whatever way 48:31 that is. 48:35 Maybe the person is dead, we'll never get the acknowledgement, 48:38 right? 48:42 never get the acknowledgement or the person just doesn't see 48:45 things the way we see them. 48:46 So we may never get the acknowledgement, but I'm so 48:49 grateful and glad by the grace and power of God that we don't 48:52 need their permission to heal. 48:54 Once we become aware that we have now taken on this 48:57 generational curse because that's what it is, God has 49:00 given us the grace and power through his word and through 49:03 tools to be able to do the work to heal on purpose. 49:06 And so you acknowledging that you now have this burden, 49:09 here's a little small exercise that I do with a lot of my 49:13 mental health coach clients, right? 49:15 It is the event thought mood record because you can't fight 49:19 what you don't know is there, right? 49:21 Or the root of it. 49:22 When did it begin? 49:23 Why did it start? 49:24 A lot of our emotions are attached to events that take 49:27 place. 49:31 top is this thing, but underneath are the tentacles of 49:34 the real reality. 49:35 And so an event happens and you are struck, right? 49:40 We call it triggered nowadays, but we know that other people 49:43 are not responsible for our triggers. 49:44 We are. 49:46 Once the event happens, you now begin to have a thought, right? 49:50 That thought may be something that was spoken to you as a 49:53 child or for a myriad of different spaces in your life, 49:56 but you are triggered to have that thought by an event and 49:59 then it sends you into a mood, but you get an opportunity, 50:03 one, to ask yourself why because why is an important 50:07 question. 50:08 Then once you ask yourself why and where this came from, you 50:11 now know this is not from God and this isn't something that 50:15 belongs to me. 50:16 This belongs to someone else, right? 50:18 Whether it's the enemy or that family member and you can't 50:20 expect the family member to take responsibility for it 50:22 because they're sick. 50:23 And when I say sick, I say mentally, spiritually, 50:26 emotionally sick, right? 50:27 Now God comes in and says, listen, they can't take it from 50:31 you and you can't take it from yourself. 50:33 Through my word, let me speak truth to you and you need to 50:36 combat that with the word. 50:39 So event, thought, mood record is allowing you to record the 50:42 event that happened, the mood and the thoughts that you have 50:45 and what does God's word say to you about that thing, right? 50:50 Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, 50:52 whatsoever things are lovely. 50:54 If you were told that you were ugly, right? 50:56 What does God say about you? 50:57 You were created in my image. 50:58 So that dispels that. 51:00 So whatever it is, that negativity that you have, 51:03 right? 51:04 It doesn't belong to you. 51:06 You don't have to hold on to it. 51:07 You can identify it, recognize it, call it what it is and 51:12 begin to do battle with it with the word of God. 51:16 Yes, please Pastor. 51:19 Philippians 4. 51:21 If there be any virtue, if there be any praise, which it 51:26 doesn't sound like there is in this communication 51:29 relationship, think on these things. 51:33 Another passage that comes to mind, of course, 2 Corinthians 51:36 3, 18, the principle is by beholding we become changed. 51:40 So if I continue to meditate and ruminate on the negative 51:46 things that have been spoken to me, then guess what? 51:49 I'm going to have negative things to say to others. 51:53 So acknowledging as Tamar mentioned, powerful and then 51:58 choosing to meditate on the things that are true. 52:01 Yes. 52:02 And then here's, this is difficult sometimes. 52:06 You actually talked about it, which is I cannot expect a 52:13 whole and healed response from a person who is not well. 52:18 And a lot of times what we do is we are basing our healing 52:23 and our wholeness on my mother's healing and wholeness. 52:28 So it's like I'm waiting on her to change. 52:30 And when she changes, then I'll change. 52:34 But it's like, you know, why is she in control? 52:38 For some, it's a mother. 52:40 For others, it's a father. 52:42 It may be a sibling. 52:44 Why is my transformation based on their schedule? 52:50 As my wife alluded to and as she stated so beautifully, you 52:54 know, we don't need anybody else's permission to heal. 52:58 You know, we can choose by the grace of God. 53:00 We can choose healing on our own and we can be healed. 53:05 I love this. 53:07 God gives us the ability to respond to others hurtful, 53:13 toxic, painful speech from a place of health and healing 53:19 instead of responding from a place of hurt, which is so 53:24 often what we do. 53:25 We give what we receive instead of, no, I'm in a place of 53:30 health now. 53:31 If, you know, if you go into a hospital and a person is having 53:34 an episode, you don't see the nurses and the doctors start 53:37 having their own episodes. 53:39 They know I'm here because I'm supposed to be the person who's 53:43 operating from a position of health and I'm here to help 53:46 this individual. 53:48 Yeah. 53:51 the first step. 53:52 Yes. 53:53 By acknowledging. 53:54 They are, they seem to be self -aware. 53:56 Excellent. 53:57 Right? 53:57 That's powerful. 53:59 Man, as G.I. 53:59 Joe says, knowing is half the battle. 54:04 Well, my sister... 54:05 Telling my age. 54:10 being redundant so that we all know for sure if she's at the 54:15 acknowledgement phase, what would you say, or he, I don't 54:17 know if they said it, what would you say is the next thing 54:20 our anonymous inquirer should do? 54:26 Well, I would have to talk more with them to see exactly what 54:31 some of the things are that they're dealing with. 54:33 But it sounds like there is, there's a challenge in their 54:38 own relationship with a nephew of being critical and some of 54:45 the same negativity that they received, they are now giving. 54:49 So since we cannot, we cannot control what someone else says 54:54 to us, what we would encourage people to do is to focus on 54:58 what we can change. 54:59 The mouth that we do by the grace of God have some power 55:03 over and that's our own. 55:05 And so this relationship between my nephew and I can be 55:09 addressed and it can be fixed by God giving me power over my 55:13 thoughts as a man thinketh in his heart. 55:16 So is he out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks 55:19 as God gives me control and power over my thinking and my 55:23 thoughts and my language. 55:25 There can be healing here. 55:27 That's what I can control instead of putting all the 55:30 focus on what I can't control. 55:32 There are some exercises that one can do to maintain positive 55:37 thinking, you know, to think on things, a good report and what 55:41 can we do about a couple of minutes before the break. 55:45 Yeah, I think one of them is the word of God. 55:46 And by the way, I'm a recovering toxic, hypercritical 55:52 individual. 55:53 Wonderful book. 55:54 I can't remember. 55:56 I think it's Van De Waal was the author looking for the good 56:01 because some of us have been so accustomed to looking for the 56:05 bad that we don't even know. 56:07 So looking for the good and of course scripture. 56:10 I agree. 56:13 you're listening to, the people that you are entertaining, your 56:16 friends and even sometimes family members. 56:18 You may have to adjust those things in order to begin to 56:21 change your outlook on life and to adjust your thinking and 56:25 thought patterns. 56:26 Can you say that again? 56:27 We may say that again. 56:28 We may need to do some changing the things we watch, the things 56:31 we listen to the Internet, TV and even people. 56:35 If I'm around constantly critical, hypercritical people 56:38 or people who speak negatively, I may need to change that. 56:42 Yes. 56:46 Yes. 56:47 Everyone word knows what it's talking about when it tells us 56:49 what to focus on. 56:50 So the input always affects the output. 56:52 It's how life functions. 56:55 You know, we have just a little bit of time before our break. 56:58 So I just want to take this opportunity to remind those of 57:02 you all who are fellowshipping with us that you can send in 57:05 your questions. 57:06 That was an excellent question. 57:07 And thank you for being willing to share to live at 3abn.tv and 57:12 you can text your questions to 618-228-3975. 57:18 Make sure you don't call. 57:19 Nothing will happen. 57:20 But text your questions. 57:22 And the book that the pastor suggested was looking for the 57:26 good. 57:29 Neil Van Der Waal. 57:30 I told you you may need your pen and pencil. 57:32 Write that down. 57:36 change in our lives. 57:38 We'll be right back after a little break. 57:40 This is very powerful. |
Revised 2025-06-27