Participants: Aaron Chancy (Host), George Whirley, Vera Whirley
Series Code: TNJ
Program Code: TNJ000001
00:10 Welcome to The New Journey:
00:12 the program where we meet real-life people
00:14 where real-life testimonies
00:16 where real-life work and ministries for Jesus.
00:18 Have you ever heard of the many secular biker clubs
00:20 of the world? We're going to meet a man
00:22 that was an associate of one of the biker clubs
00:25 but now serves and rides for Jesus Christ.
00:27 I'm your host Aaron Chancey. Come join us on The New Journey.
01:00 Our guests today are George and Vera Whirley.
01:03 Now ya'll are both involved in a very exciting ministry.
01:07 Can you tell us a little bit about your prison ministry work
01:09 that you're involved in? Well I'm the national vice president
01:12 for Unchained Ministries, and I've been involved in prison
01:15 ministries 23 years or so.
01:17 I say 23 years or so...
01:19 I started ministry while incarcerated
01:23 so I just... It just filtered down me because I knew
01:28 that I needed to do something. And right away
01:30 I knew that I was saved in prison and I knew
01:34 what a struggle men had while they were incarcerated.
01:37 So I knew that that was really going to be my ministry
01:40 because I started ministering right away.
01:42 As soon as I gave my life to Jesus
01:44 I began ministering the Word of God.
01:46 OK. And Unchained Ministry is what gave me a start.
01:50 And they're the ones that actually led me to the Lord.
01:52 OK. Now another entity that Unchained Ministry has
01:55 is a biker club. Can you tell us a little bit about the
01:57 biker club ministry?
01:58 Well, the biker ministry is... we... we do a lot of,
02:03 uh, parties with secular motorcycle clubs
02:07 and we work with an organization called Abate of Indiana
02:10 which is American Bikers Aim for Education - OK -
02:13 which now... ABATE is all over the world.
02:16 But we do that type of thing. We... I have a big tent. OK.
02:20 We set up a big tent. And I say big tent: it's 40x40
02:24 and I set it up. We give away free coffee, water.
02:26 Minister to folk throughout the weekend. Those type of things.
02:31 OK. So your biker ministry you utilize
02:34 to minister to the secular bikers... biker clubs, correct?
02:38 Absolutely. And now we minister to all type of folks -
02:42 OK - as far as the motorcycle thing goes.
02:44 You know, you may find us at just a typical poker run.
02:50 OK. You may find us even at a clubhouse.
02:53 All right. But our whole focus is to see that
02:57 Jesus is proclaimed no matter where we're at
03:01 or what we're doing there... what setting we might be in. OK.
03:05 If we're at the clubhouse, we're sharing Jesus. OK.
03:08 That's what our whole goal is is to let people know
03:12 about Jesus Christ and what He has done in our lives.
03:15 Amen. So that's the number one thing for us.
03:18 Now you told me that your ministry was basically two fold
03:22 where you work inside of the prisons as well as you work
03:24 outside of the prisons. What's some of the work that you do
03:27 inside of a prison? Well inside the prisons,
03:30 uh, our focus there is
03:33 we service 47 jails and prisons
03:36 throughout the state of Indiana.
03:38 And now I have 200 parishioners or so that work under me
03:42 that work in the different jails and prisons and stuff.
03:46 But what we do there is we do a lot of counseling.
03:50 We do a lot of church services, that type of stuff. OK.
03:56 So Ms. Whirley, you're also involved in prison ministries.
03:59 And can you tell us a little bit about the involvement that you
04:01 have with prison ministries?
04:03 I attend a local, small jail in our county
04:08 and I go once a month. Our ministry has someone
04:12 there once each week and I go in once a week -
04:17 OK - or once a month and we do a church service.
04:21 And then we try to also...
04:25 Here recently we had an opportunity to place people
04:30 in a half-way house that we've been able to open up,
04:33 and we try to direct people there.
04:36 We just try to be one-on-one with the people and help them
04:40 with the needs that they have that we know
04:41 that we can help them with. OK.
04:42 So the work that ya'll are involved in is
04:44 in both male and female facilities.
04:47 Can you tell us a little bit, Ms. Whirley, how it is
04:49 going into... as a female... going into both male facilities
04:53 as well as female facilities because there may be some
04:57 viewers that are interested in getting involved
04:59 in prison ministries... some ladies that are interested
05:01 in getting involved in prison ministries
05:03 but they may have a fear of going inside a male facility
05:07 or female facility. Can you tell us a little bit about that
05:10 experience? Well I've been going into the
05:13 jails and prisons since 1995.
05:16 I have never been incarcerated, so my first
05:20 time visiting was a little different.
05:22 But I knew in my heart that God had placed me there.
05:25 OK. And I passed any concerns by just trusting in Him.
05:30 And once I got there, your mind isn't on where you're at...
05:35 it's on what you're doing.
05:37 And I always had a peace, and I've always had a peace
05:40 and there's never been... no complications.
05:44 I just know that if you know that's where the Lord
05:47 is leading you, just trust in Him and it'll all be OK.
05:50 So it's a great experience being involved in prison ministries?
05:53 Yes. Well, you know, viewers, if you're interested in getting
05:55 involved in prison ministries you need to get involved.
05:58 If you feel that the Lord is calling you to prison ministry,
06:01 get involved. Mr. Whirley, you yourself
06:04 have been on the other side of the fence per se.
06:08 Prison work... you were incarcerated before.
06:11 You've done time before. Can you tell us a little bit
06:13 about your early life - your early home life - that
06:16 may have led to being incarcerated.
06:19 Well you know, early in my life,
06:23 uh, my father was in the armed services.
06:26 And he was transferred out of the house a lot,
06:29 so that just left my mother at home.
06:32 And my mother got tangled up in some
06:37 unlawful deeds and it led me into the same thing.
06:41 OK. And she had, because of her and my father's issues,
06:46 she had taught me that this is what I was going to have to do -
06:50 OK - as a survival issue. And, you know, that was to
06:53 sell drugs and that type of stuff in my life.
06:57 And that's how I was going to actually make a living.
06:59 OK. And you know I was encouraged that way,
07:02 you know, so even at an early age it stopped me
07:05 from trying to seek an education - OK -
07:09 and doing the right stuff in life, you know, because
07:11 I was following after my mother's footsteps.
07:14 OK. And I say it like that... I'm not giving any blame
07:17 to my mother. I believe that it was always the sin
07:20 that was in my life that detoured me from being able
07:24 to, uh, have a real life. Because the devil's trying to...
07:27 trying to affect my life in the very beginning. Yeah.
07:30 And he did a good job at it, you know,
07:34 of detouring me from being able to be...
07:36 You know, 'cause at 8 years old I was incarcerated. Yeah.
07:39 Wow. And being 8 years old I was obviously a real little child.
07:44 Um-hmm. And to be incarcerated in any place
07:46 other than the home where you were "growed up" at
07:49 or raised, you know, is a great change in your life.
07:52 But you know, through that... I mean it was just
07:54 an ongoing process that just led from one incident
07:59 to another incident to another incident
08:01 in and out of jails and prisons, you know, till I got to the age
08:05 of about 27 years old.
08:07 So that had to be a pretty difficult experience.
08:09 You said from about 8 years old
08:11 to 27 years old you spent time in the penal system.
08:14 That had to be very difficult.
08:16 Oh absolutely! I mean I thought... I thought that was
08:19 a way of life. Yeah, OK.
08:21 You know, because even early in life I had
08:24 one of these thoughts and goals because everybody has
08:27 a thought that something... You know, there's...
08:30 I believe that there's children that wakes up
08:31 in early life going like: "I want to be a doctor. "
08:34 "I want to be a nurse. " Well my thought
08:36 was "I want to go out like Machine Gun Kelly or, uh,
08:40 you know, Bonnie and Clyde. " You know, and that's what
08:45 because of the way I was being raised
08:47 that was the train of thought.
08:50 The people that I associated myself with,
08:52 the lifestyle that I was leading, the people that I
08:55 was there with being incar- cerated in different places -
08:58 OK - you know, that's just the way that I... that was the
09:00 train of thought that I had going on in my mind.
09:02 OK. So with wanting to be like the Bonnie and Clydes and the
09:06 Kelly, you kind of gravitated to this life of crime.
09:10 Can you talk a little bit about some of the charges that...
09:13 that you were convicted of from time to time?
09:15 Well I was convicted of
09:19 possession of a controlled substance which was drugs.
09:24 OK. You know, cocaine, marijuana,
09:26 pills, that type of thing.
09:29 Were you involved in using drugs and alcohol?
09:31 Oh yeah, I was a user 'cause I was a cocaine freak -
09:34 OK. And I use that term... I was a "junkie"
09:36 and I lived on the street most of the time.
09:38 OK. There was a time in my life where I felt that I had it
09:42 all going on and my pockets were lined with a lot of cash.
09:46 I drove nice cars. OK.
09:47 That type of thing, you know? And I thought that
09:50 that's the way everything was going to be.
09:52 And it came to a point where my using
09:56 put all that selling to a stop,
10:00 you know, because I was using more than I was selling.
10:02 So that just ended up causing me to be incarcerated.
10:07 You know, it's interesting that the Bible said
10:09 in Hebrews 11:25 that sin is pleasurable
10:13 but it's only for a short season. We have fun with it;
10:17 we delve into it, but the Bible says it's only for
10:20 a short season. Can you testify to that?
10:22 Oh absolutely, you know. And you use the term
10:25 "a short season. " I always had a thought in my mind
10:27 if I didn't get my life on track by the age of 27
10:31 that I would never reach any goal that I could ever
10:34 set for myself. Not that I had any goals
10:37 but there was a point in my life
10:41 in the last 2 years... about the age of 24, 25 years old...
10:46 that I had begun realizing I was raised in a house
10:49 with 13 children. And I had... One of my brothers said
10:53 "If you don't reach the goal at about 27 years old
10:56 you're never going to be successful in nothing. "
10:59 And that always stuck with me.
11:00 So about the age of 24 I started thinking about
11:04 the way my life had been run. OK.
11:06 Different motorcycle clubs that I may have run with.
11:10 Different situations that I was tangled up in. OK.
11:14 I was tangled up in prostitution.
11:17 I was tangled up in drug use, selling drugs.
11:20 I'd been busted several times for driving while under the
11:24 influence. In the state of Indiana I was the very first man
11:27 to ever get charged as a felony for drunk driving.
11:31 And they made an example of me. Before it was over with
11:34 I got a 12-year sentence for just drunk driving.
11:37 So you know there was a lot of things that played in my life -
11:40 that... a lot of sin if I can say... that was
11:44 in my life that was totally trying to take me down.
11:48 OK. The devil tried early, continuously,
11:51 to take me out of this world. OK.
11:53 So you said that you were in- volved in different biker clubs.
11:57 Now I've heard a little bit of information about biker clubs.
12:00 And, you know, many people have the idea that
12:02 the biker clubs are some infamous, hardened biker clubs.
12:06 Could you give us a little insight into these
12:08 various biker clubs? How it is to be involved
12:11 in them. Some of the things that may go on.
12:13 Can you talk a little bit about that?
12:14 Well you know, all these different clubs - secular clubs
12:17 in the world - they all have goals. They all have bylaws.
12:22 And each individual has to deal with whatever laws
12:26 in the specific clubs. OK. I mean, for instance,
12:30 number one in a club is the patch that you have
12:33 on your back. OK. Your family is secondary.
12:36 OK. Your number one family is the club itself
12:40 and your colors are your most valuable responsibilities. OK.
12:45 But, you know, to say that they are all notorious?
12:49 You can't say that each and every one of them are
12:51 because I have seen so many great deeds that some of these
12:55 individuals have done. Toy rides.
12:59 OK. You know, to draw toys for children at Christmastime
13:04 or to raise money for this certain cancer project or...
13:09 You know, and I've seen a lot of things out of these young men
13:13 that you just don't... young and old men that you
13:15 just really don't expect. OK.
13:17 But yes, in the all, yes they're all... they all have a goal.
13:21 You know, that's interesting that you should say that
13:23 some of the biker gangs they do things like toy drives
13:26 and things like that. I guess for most people
13:29 on the outside looking in we don't see all of that
13:32 that goes on. We just see... we hear of the crime
13:35 on the news or we see 50 bikers riding down the road on their
13:38 Harley Davidson's with their leather jackets on.
13:41 And in our mind because of what we see we tend to think
13:44 "OK, these are some hard... some real hard people. "
13:47 But we don't see on the outside looking in
13:49 we don't see all the good that they do.
13:50 But you just testified to the fact that some of them
13:52 actually do have good ministries and things like that. Correct?
13:56 Sure, and they all have
13:59 a lifestyle that's so much different than the regular...
14:05 I should say the "regular people" of the world.
14:07 Obviously. But we know for a fact
14:10 that they're all reachable.
14:12 You know, the Word of God has taught me...
14:14 I've been saved about 23 years or so now
14:16 and the Word of God has taught me that every man, woman,
14:20 and child is valuable to the kingdom of God.
14:23 You know, and this is a class of people... OK.
14:27 You know, the class of people that I deal with is
14:29 I want to call "the forgotten world. "
14:32 OK. And the forgotten world to me is motorcycle people,
14:35 OK, guys that's locked up, men and women that's
14:37 locked up that's in the penal system that nobody
14:43 has anything to do with. You know my family...
14:46 I got saved in the last year of my incarceration -
14:50 OK - at the Indiana State Farm.
14:53 And my "family" right off the bat they said that I was
14:57 "going through a fad. " Uh-huh.
14:59 And the fad that I was going through was I accepted Jesus.
15:02 And they've heard so many different wild stories
15:05 about that type of thing. Uh-huh.
15:06 That I had jailhouse religion.
15:08 Well that jailhouse religion now has gone on for 23 years.
15:10 Oh yeah. And I still probably have some family members
15:13 that's standing on the outside saying:
15:15 "Something's going to happen. He's going to snap
15:17 and he's going back to the same old way. "
15:18 Well I don't have anything to turn back to.
15:20 Yeah. You know, my life now is to serve Jesus 24/7.
15:25 OK. You know, no matter what I'm doing.
15:27 You know, we do motorcycle ministry.
15:29 We do jailhouse ministry.
15:34 But you know, we do even more than that.
15:37 Back when Katrina hit I remember many times in my life
15:42 when I went to bed hungry.
15:43 You know, 'cause at home I had five sisters and they ate first.
15:47 OK. I always seen to that every meal.
15:49 And if there was anything left over then it was all right.
15:52 OK. But I went to bed hungry several nights
15:55 you know throughout a month. So what I would do...
15:58 what my number one goal in life is to make sure that children
16:03 don't go hungry. OK. For several years
16:06 I would gather up food and I would have food drives.
16:09 I would set up a tent... a 60 by 40 tent -
16:13 wow - and have tent revivals and I would have people that
16:16 had clown ministries. OK. And I had this buddy of mine that
16:19 had a hot air balloon. OK. We would just sit all this stuff
16:22 together. I have another buddy that has a catering service.
16:25 He would bring groceries and food
16:28 and different food banks would give me groceries
16:30 and we'd take 50, 60,000 pounds of food.
16:32 And we'd bag them up. Get a whole bunch of volunteers
16:35 and bag all that stuff up and go to a low rent district -
16:39 OK - you know, in Indianapolis or a surrounding place
16:43 and we'd just put all this together.
16:46 And we'd make it a one-day thing but it usually took just about
16:49 6-8 hours from the time we started to the end
16:52 of the program for that day. But it would take us
16:55 a month to get everything to- gether to make all this happen.
16:58 But our number one goal was to feed somebody -
17:01 OK - give them a sack full of groceries and most of all...
17:04 You know Jesus, when He was out in the desert,
17:06 the Word of God said He fed 5,000 men plus - yes -
17:11 Are you saying women and children?
17:12 Yeah, He still had women and children. Oh, yeah.
17:14 And you know back in those days some of them had 2 or 3 wives.
17:17 But the whole story is every one of them got something to eat.
17:20 Oh, yeah. And when it was all said and done there was
17:23 enough to fill five baskets. You know what I'm saying?
17:25 Oh, yeah. So that's what we're all about.
17:28 OK. Ministering to the needs.
17:30 Ministering to the needs. It doesn't make any difference
17:32 if it's motorcycle people or jail people.
17:34 OK. My goal is to see families joined together
17:39 in the Word of God. And without... You know, some people
17:42 don't understand what this Word - the true Word of God -
17:47 can do for a whole household. That's right.
17:49 That's the gospel. You know one little thing I used to do
17:52 in Johnson County where I'm the chaplain at
17:56 was my goal was to see families come together -
18:00 OK - and hear the Word of God.
18:02 So I started a little program in a work release center.
18:05 And this is what they told me, said: "Well as soon as you fill
18:07 this room we'll give you a bigger room. "
18:10 And what I was wanting them to do is let me take
18:11 the families to a local church and get everybody involved.
18:16 Well, there were 110 people in this work release center
18:18 and they wouldn't... they said "Well they won't all attend. "
18:21 OK. Well anybody that's incarcerated is going to find
18:24 a moment. If he can find a moment to get free,
18:27 he's going to get free. That is true.
18:29 So we started with just a handful of people.
18:30 The first night was 11 people. OK.
18:32 And that was on a Friday night.
18:34 And then the second Friday night we had about 45 people.
18:37 So the third Friday night they said: "You need to find
18:39 a church. " Wow! So we found the church
18:41 which was right next door - um-hmm -
18:44 and we started having services.
18:45 And a woman that was with our ministry, she said:
18:49 "You know, we ought to start feeding these folks. "
18:50 OK. And before we realized it in just a few weeks
18:54 we had gone from 10 or 11 people in a little bitty room
18:57 to 165 people every week. OK.
19:01 That was maybe mothers and fathers and aunts and uncles
19:06 and babies that would come to those services - Amen -
19:10 thinking that the reason they were coming was to
19:13 fellowship with the spouse or their mother that
19:17 was incarcerated or their father.
19:18 But what would end up happening was...
19:20 I had this one man that followed me from institution
19:23 to institution. And he would always come to me and say...
19:26 You know, he said... They call me midget.
19:28 OK. Said: "Midget, I didn't come tonight to get saved. "
19:33 OK. He said: "But I just came to see if you're still doing
19:35 the same work. " And he did that in 5 or 6
19:39 different facilities over about an eight-year period.
19:41 OK. Well one night in Johnson County
19:44 at this work release center where we were having this church
19:47 he came to me and he said...
19:50 He said: "Midget... " He said: "You know... "
19:52 he said "still again I didn't come to get saved. "
19:54 OK. He said: "But tonight my whole family's here" -
19:57 Amen - "and it's the first time we've had an opportunity
19:59 to be in church. " Amen. The next Friday night
20:02 when an altar call came,
20:04 the song was over and all the words were sung
20:08 and all the words were preached,
20:09 this man... and he had two daughters and his wife...
20:13 OK... they all got up and walked to the front -
20:17 Amen - with a group full of other individuals.
20:19 OK. He looked at me and he said: "Midget... "
20:21 he said "I'm ready. "
20:22 You know, and from that day to this day
20:25 which is about 11 or 12 years, I have never seen that man again.
20:29 OK. So I believe in my heart
20:31 that the Word of God pierced his
20:33 and his mind opened and his ears became clean
20:36 and he heard the true Word of God. OK.
20:38 And something inside of him snapped and he said:
20:41 "I need what that guy's got. "
20:43 OK. And we were capable of sharing that with them.
20:46 Now you have been involved in ministry for about the last
20:48 27 years. And actually your last charge
20:53 kind of led to you changing your life.
20:55 Can you tell us a little bit about your last charge?
20:57 What ended up happening?
20:59 Well my last charge was attempted murder. OK.
21:02 And I didn't pre-plan to take anybody's life -
21:06 OK - or attempt to.
21:08 I was... Early in life I had been incarcerated
21:12 in a prison that was a hard-core prison.
21:17 And when you would go in A and O. And A and O was
21:20 admission and orientation. OK.
21:23 And when you would go in there there would be a setting of
21:25 maybe 165 to 225 men.
21:28 And they were all going through the same thing you were.
21:31 You just arrived at the prison. You were real nervous
21:34 and had a lot of anxieties about what was going on.
21:37 And there were always problems and issues. OK.
21:40 And they were already mad about being there
21:43 and they didn't think it was their fault. Nobody was guilty.
21:46 Everybody was innocent. Everybody blaming somebody else.
21:48 Everybody blaming somebody else.
21:50 But there were always a lot of scuffles going on - OK -
21:52 so you were always real nervous.
21:55 You know, there were individuals talking about taking
21:57 people's lives, and there were some lives taken.
22:00 OK. You know, where I was at all the movement was underground.
22:04 OK. There was no movement above the ground whatsoever.
22:06 It was all underground.
22:08 So by being in that place and being incarcerated there
22:11 I was real leery about everybody.
22:14 Uh-huh. One night I'd come home... I say "come home, "
22:16 I was in work release - OK - and I had an individual
22:18 told me he was going to take my life when I went to sleep.
22:21 Hmmm. And I didn't just challenge him. I just
22:24 handled the situation - OK - and it caused me to receive
22:28 a charge of attempted murder.
22:31 OK. So attempted murder charge which was actually later
22:33 reduced to a lesser charge, correct? It was.
22:35 It was reduced to assault and battery -
22:38 OK - with the attempt. And you know I ended up
22:41 only doing two years of incarceration on that charge.
22:44 OK. And I use the term "only. "
22:46 But you know the fact is there were 27 years of my life
22:52 that were lost and were gone.
22:57 So the two years kind of seems like small
22:59 compared to the 27. Right, absolutely.
23:01 But you know, that 2 years is where the life changing began.
23:06 Because actually when you got sentenced you did two years.
23:09 When you got to the prison you actually had an intention...
23:12 You went to a meeting of Christians and you had
23:14 an intention to do something. What was that intention
23:17 that turned out to be a blessing?
23:19 Well you know, and it was really before I knew God.
23:21 I had an encounter in the regional diagnostic center
23:27 and that's where they put you in a 5x8. Yeah.
23:29 You're all alone, and then they do some tests and see
23:33 where you're at, where your mind's at,
23:34 where your physical body is moving at.
23:36 And I had a vision of God,
23:41 and I had no recollection of that at all.
23:44 But the only thing they would give you there for the first few
23:46 days was a Bible. OK. And it was like it was laying
23:48 over there in the corner and it was all glowing.
23:51 Well I'd pick it up and read it and it just didn't make sense
23:54 to me whatsoever and I would just throw it down.
23:56 I did that several times and then they sent me
23:58 to Indiana State Farm.
23:59 And then I saw this bulletin or saw this flyer
24:02 on the bulletin board. OK. It said the bikers
24:04 are going to be at the chapel, and I just began to laugh.
24:07 I said: "I can have myself a hey-day there. "
24:10 So you went with the intention of making fun of them.
24:12 I was like Paul! I went with the total intentions of
24:15 bringing them down, you know. I wanted to persecute them
24:19 really bad. OK. But you know, I got over there
24:21 and I began to look at these guys
24:24 because the first thing you think about is gold wings
24:28 and suits and ties when you talk about bikers in church.
24:31 Well I got over there, and they were guys like me.
24:33 They had black boots on, blue jeans
24:35 and rags hanging out of the back pockets
24:37 and cut-off sleeves. And you know, I'm thinking
24:40 "You know, these guys could almost be my brothers. " Yeah.
24:43 And I began thinking: "What do they have in common with
24:45 the church? " OK. And then I began finding out
24:48 they were the preachers! They were? Wow!
24:50 So I began to sit down and listen. OK.
24:53 But every time they'd have an altar call I'd cut out.
24:57 OK. I mean, I would just split.
24:58 I was done. I said: "This is over...
25:00 I know what's up now. I done sat through one of these
25:02 I ain't sittin' through another one. "
25:03 OK. Well they had six services that weekend.
25:06 That was November the 6th of 1988.
25:09 OK. And I remember it because the last service was
25:13 November the 7th at 2 PM. OK.
25:17 They had an altar call. All right.
25:19 And as I began to cut out as normal
25:22 when I got to the double swinging doors
25:24 they had these brutes standing in front of the doorway.
25:27 Wouldn't let you out? Great big guys. Nope,
25:29 they wouldn't let me out. OK.
25:30 They said: "We have people here wants to talk to you. "
25:32 OK. And I hear the pitter-patter of a woman's feet
25:35 coming up the aisle. And it was a long aisle,
25:37 so they seemed to last for a long time.
25:39 The whole time I kind of like in the mode of wanting
25:41 to struggle to get out and these guys are holding me.
25:43 "Calm down a minute. " OK.
25:45 And they came up and this woman began telling me how much
25:47 she loved me. OK. She began sharing Jesus with me.
25:50 So in that the Lord began working on your heart.
25:52 You went with a different intention than being changed
25:55 and in that God was working on your heart
25:58 and actually changing your life at the same time.
26:00 Now when you were younger did you ever think
26:02 that you would actually come around and change your life?
26:05 Or did you think that what you were doing was just going to be
26:06 a way of life forever?
26:08 No, I thought it was going to be a way of life forever.
26:10 I thought that I was going to be selling drugs
26:12 and selling women and all that kind of stuff my whole life.
26:14 I thought that was my goal.
26:17 OK. So you thought that was your goal. So you really
26:19 didn't have any intentions... What year was it
26:21 that you actually changed your life?
26:23 In 1988. 1988. November the 7th
26:26 at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. OK.
26:28 So you've been involved in ministry work for quite
26:31 some time now, correct?
26:32 You know, it was like the Holy Spirit entered me
26:35 that moment and I began ministering the Word of God.
26:38 OK. Because... you know, the Word of God
26:40 says "Go and tell somebody. " Oh yeah, oh yeah.
26:42 So that's what I did... I took the Word of God.
26:44 By not knowing it, the people that led me to the Lord said
26:48 "Hey, now you've got to go tell somebody. "
26:50 Yeah, oh yeah. You know, people got tired of hearing it.
26:52 Oh yeah. I mean they really got tired of hearing it.
26:54 And they got to a point... I lasted 8 more months
26:57 after gettin' saved in prison
26:59 and in that 8 months I was probably the only individual
27:05 in that dorm that got a standing ovation when he left.
27:08 Let me ask you a question: how would you compare
27:10 your Christian life now compared to the lifestyle
27:15 that you were living?
27:16 Oh, there's no comparison whatsoever
27:17 because the Word of God has filled my heart.
27:20 OK. There's no more crime.
27:22 There's no more hurting people,
27:24 and my life is what it needs to be today.
27:27 What I want you to do right now is look into the camera
27:30 and talk to the viewers. Talk to the many bikers
27:32 that are struggling out there, that are wanting something
27:36 better than what they have. Can you give them a word?
27:39 Share a word with them that will encourage them
27:41 to choose Jesus. Well you know, the word
27:44 today is in faith, and it says "take God at His word"
27:47 when the circumstances seem to deny the truth that He has
27:50 promised. And what God has promised each and every one
27:52 of us is life and life abundantly. And that's what
27:55 we have to have right now is we need to know that
27:57 beyond what we've been taught in life
27:59 Jesus went to the cross for all of us.
28:02 I want you to provide your website.
28:03 Give us your website so that people can get in contact with
28:06 your ministry. It's unchainedministries. org
28:09 unchainedministries. org
28:10 I encourage you all to get in contact with this ministry
28:14 so that you can learn more about it.